1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE COMMON COUNCIL * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter of: TEXTURE Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Amusement/Cabaret License SALVATORE SALVO "TEXTURE" 606 South 5th Street * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Proceedings had and testimony given in the above-entitled matter before the COMMON COUNCIL CITY OF MILWAUKEE on the 7th day of July, 2010. 2 1 * * * * * 2 I N D E X 3 4 Examination: Page 5 Mr. Halbrooks...................................... 5 Mr. Schrimpf....................................... 15 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 PRESIDENT HINES: For the next items, we 3 will use the services of the court reporter. Let 4 the record reflect that the court reporter has been 5 sworn in. 6 CITY CLERK: The Licenses Committee 7 recommends approval of File No. 100062 motion to 8 approve the recommendations of the Licenses 9 Committee relative to license. Included in the 10 file are the following recommendations: 11 Renewal with a 25-day suspension based on 12 neighborhood objections and a police report of the 13 Class B Tavern and Tavern Amusement Licenses of 14 Salvatore Salvo, agent for Pop Promotions, LLC, for 15 the premises at 606 South 5th Street known as 16 Texture in the 12th Aldermanic District. Written 17 objections have been filed. 18 PRESIDENT HINES: Have the members of the 19 Common Council read the report and the 20 recommendations of the Licenses Committee and the 21 exceptions filed in this matter? Roll call, 22 please. 23 CITY CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 24 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 25 CITY CLERK: Davis. 4 1 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 2 CITY CLERK: Kovac. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 4 CITY CLERK: Bauman. 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 6 CITY CLERK: Bohl. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 8 CITY CLERK: Coggs. 9 ALDERMAN COGGS: Aye. 10 CITY CLERK: Wade. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 12 CITY CLERK: Puente. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Murphy. 15 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 16 CITY CLERK: Dudzik. 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 18 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak. 19 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 20 CITY CLERK: Zielinski. 21 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 22 CITY CLERK: Mr. President. 23 PRESIDENT HINES: Aye. 24 CITY CLERK: 13 ayes, 2 excused. 25 PRESIDENT HINES: 13 ayes, 2 excused. 5 1 CITY CLERK: Is Salvatore Salvo or his 2 counsel present, and if so, does either wish to 3 address the Common Council? Counsel is present. 4 PRESIDENT HINES: Counsel is present. 5 Alderman Bohl moves that the Common Council resolve 6 itself to the Committee of the Whole for the 7 purpose of hearing oral arguments on behalf of the 8 licenses in opposition to the report and 9 recommendations, a statement presented by the City 10 Attorney. Are there any objections? Hearing none, 11 we are in the Committee of the Whole. 12 Each side shall be limited to five 13 minutes, and the arguments shall be limited to 14 matters of the report and recommendations and 15 written exceptions. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 17 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you. Please 18 identify yourself for the record. Again, you have 19 five minutes to make your presentation. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. President, 21 members, good morning. My name is David Halbrooks, 22 I represent Pop Productions, LLC. And thank you 23 for the opportunity to appear this morning. 24 I want to try to deal with why we are 25 here. In the past when I didn't appear, I assumed 6 1 approval of what the Committee did. Since that is 2 no longer the case, I want to tell you that we 3 appear, and we put in the objections. These 4 objections are to preserve our legal rights. 5 You're not going to necessarily hear me challenging 6 the recommendations of the Committee. 7 There are a couple of things that I want 8 to talk about here this morning. And one of them 9 is what happens between the Committee, and what 10 happens on this Council floor. And I think we need 11 to guard against the appearance of this term called 12 aldermanic privilege. 13 Now, a couple of weeks ago, Alderman 14 Zielinski was on the stand, and I -- 15 PRESIDENT HINES: Mr. City Clerk, or 16 Attorney, what I want -- I want to confer with the 17 city clerk on this issue, and the reason I want to 18 do so is because it's anticipated that you should 19 speak to the findings of the recommendations of the 20 Committee, which now has a 25-day suspension. So 21 if you're not going to speak to that issue, I want 22 to make certain that we are honoring the policies 23 and procedures related to the purpose for this 24 particular setting. Give me a second, please. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 7 1 We will now hear five minutes from the 2 applicant's attorney. Go right ahead, Mr. 3 Halbrooks. 4 Members of the Committee, Council, let me 5 ask you all to be attentive to the presentation. I 6 know you've read the material, but a part of our 7 decision will also be predicated upon the comments 8 made by the attorney, so please be attentive. 9 Please continue. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. As I was 11 indicating, our objection indicates that these 12 objections are filed to preserve our legal rights 13 based on what happened in the Committee. And in 14 the objections, we wanted to point out a couple of 15 things: One, that there was no police objection in 16 this matter. The police did not appear, the City 17 Attorney did not appear to object to the renewal 18 license; just Alderman Witkowiak. 19 Now, one of the arguments that Alderman 20 Witkowiak made was that they were based on his 21 constituents wanting this done. He was moving for 22 nonrenewal or asking the Committee to nonrenew. 23 Here is the facts of what happened at the 24 Committee: There were two, exactly two 25 constituents who appeared in objection to the 8 1 renewal of the license. There were three who 2 appeared in favor of the license. Yet the 3 statements from Alderman Witkowiak are, "My 4 constituents are against this, and this is the most 5 troublesome place in the district." 6 The issue with the findings that I have 7 with regard to the police report is the following: 8 During the presentation, there was a concern about 9 whether the club should call the police or not call 10 the police. The Committee really split into two 11 camps on this issue. Alderwoman Coggs spoke up and 12 said, "Yes, call the police. We told you to call 13 the police. We want you to call the police." And 14 as a result of that, there was a longer police 15 report. 16 Now, three votes on the Committee upheld 17 the position that we want you to call the police, 18 we are not going to hold those things against you 19 if you do, because what will happen as a result of 20 that is better than the circumstances that will 21 happen if we favor the policy of not calling the 22 police. Thankfully, that position won out. The 23 minority on the Committee favors the policy of not 24 calling the police. 25 And, specifically, I will refer to the 9 1 findings. Now, I will indicate as well, the one 2 problem I have with the issue of calling the police 3 is, none of the, the findings do not go through and 4 say the Committee doesn't give way to this one, or 5 does give way to this. They are not distinguished. 6 They are just comments that we made at the hearing. 7 So a better way to handle what the majority on the 8 Committee indicated was which ones are considered 9 and which ones aren't because if the ones that are 10 not being considered are put in there, the findings 11 would look considerably different. 12 Now, if you look at Paragraph 5A in the 13 Committee's findings drafted by the City Attorney, 14 it indicates that there is a situation where there 15 was a person driving by and there was a gun waving. 16 Now, this is a case where the person was identified 17 by a person at Texture. Alderman Zielinski then 18 uses that as an example of why they should not be 19 renewed. He also then cites another, other 20 examples with weapons and guns, and then, 21 eventually, in his closing says, "Somebody is going 22 to be shot. There is repeated gun and weapons 23 issues. What the hell are all these guns doing in 24 the place on such a frequent basis?" There is only 25 one gun that shows up in the entire report, and 10 1 that is a person driving by that is identified by 2 Texture and arrested. 3 None of the other issues, whether it was 4 a highly-intoxicated issue, that was hearsay, not 5 justified by the police, that was challenged 6 legally at Committee. 7 There is one where it says, "A complaint 8 for battery while armed." There was no armed when 9 the thing got done. And the police said Texture 10 was untruthful, this was after Texture spent until 11 5:30 in the morning going through videos that 12 proved nothing. 13 Additionally, I would point out that 14 Julie Kaufmann testified that she sees people -- 15 PRESIDENT HINES: Own minute. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: -- leaving Texture, going 17 to Texture. She lives two blocks away. Bruce 18 Street doesn't even go through. You can't, she 19 can't possibly see Texture from her house. Her 20 house faces west; texture is west. There is an 21 athletic field and a church in between her house 22 and Texture. She cannot see. 23 Mr. Castillo cannot see from his 24 Pedrano's, Texture, yet he testified under oath 25 that he could see it. 11 1 And, finally, Mr. Zarate, who I think is 2 the source of all of these attempted closures, he 3 presents a video. There are several objections to 4 the video being presented: it was running fast; it 5 had editorial comments; it had been pointed in the 6 opposite direction from Texture. But it was never 7 moved into evidence, it's not part of the record. 8 And it's not going to court. If you use that and 9 argue that in your decision here on the floor, it 10 will raise a question with the court about the 11 judgment of this Council. 12 And so, we raise these issues of the 13 objections, but we will have no objection if the 14 Committee, if this Council upholds the Committee. 15 Thank you. 16 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Attorney 17 Halbrooks. Why don't you stay here? 18 Any questions that members, that Council 19 have of the attorney? The chair recognizes 20 Alderman Bohl. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. President. 22 Mr. Halbrooks, in your comments, you 23 stated that a majority of the Committee favor 24 licensed establishments calling the police, and a 25 minority of the Committee do not. Was there any, 12 1 ever any, direct reference, ever any direct 2 statements by these alleged minority members of the 3 Committee that they don't favor calling the police, 4 or is that something you are just surmising on your 5 own? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: The statements of 7 Alderman Zielinski where he summarizes at the end 8 the incidents and the reasons why. We had a 9 significant discussion at Committee about whether 10 we should call the police. I actually said it, 11 "The way this Committee is trending, these guys are 12 going to wish that they hadn't called the police. 13 And the people watching are going to know not to 14 call the police." And then in his closing, 15 Alderman Zielinski used those examples as reasons 16 why, after the majority of the Committee, the three 17 members that voted in favor, made it clear that 18 they were not including those items, Alderman 19 Zielinski then went through, and in his legislative 20 arguing skills, argued that the items that where 21 they called the police should be used against them 22 and closed, and the place should be closed because 23 of it. 24 So from those comments, I extrapolate 25 that, yes, that Alderman Zielinski was certainly 13 1 holding against and endorsing the policy of don't 2 call the police because we're going to hold it 3 against you if you do. 4 ALDERMAN BOHL: So it is nothing that was 5 formally stated, just what you are extrapolating? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: The issues that you speak 8 of here in terms of the commentary, are these 9 largely items where there were disagreements and 10 somebody was put out, or are these incidents -- or 11 were these typical where there were batteries, 12 fighting and other physical fighting and other 13 physical activities where the police were flagged 14 down or the police were called? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: In some of the instances, 16 certainly in the one instance that I think disturbs 17 the employees of Texture, in example 5F, and this 18 is one that Alderman Zielinski closed with in each 19 of his speeches, the armed, battery-while-armed 20 complaint. I think that what's important to 21 understand is that's how the police enter it on 22 their docket, but then the police officer, after 23 spending all night with the individuals at Texture, 24 wrote in his report that they were not truthful. 25 And despite repeated attempts by Texture to get 14 1 them to explain what they were being untruthful 2 for, nothing was never forthcoming. And when we 3 challenged it in Committee, nobody stepped forward 4 to explain why that was untruthful. But what did 5 happen is the members of Texture came forward and 6 said, "This did not happen. We were unable to find 7 the incident that was reported in the report and in 8 the videos after spending more than three hours 9 looking at videotapes." So the report of 5F is, 10 there is no basis for this to be in the findings, 11 and yet it looks really bad if you just read the 12 initial couple of sentences. 13 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you. 14 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you. The chair 15 recognizes Alderman Wade. 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Thank you, Mr. President. 17 I just want to make sure that I'm clear on this. 18 You're saying that your position is, you're fine 19 with the recommendation that came out of the 20 Committee as it pertains to Texture. Your 21 opposition is to anything that is any more severe 22 than that. Is that what you're saying? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, sir. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. Thank you. 25 PRESIDENT HINES: Are there any 15 1 additional comments by, or questions by the 2 Council? If not, thank you, Attorney Halbrooks. 3 We will now hear from the City Attorney's 4 Office, Assistant City Attorney Bruce Schrimpf, who 5 also will be allocated five minutes with the new 6 contraption in front of you that will monitor your 7 time. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. I hope to do 9 it in far less than that, Mr. President. 10 Bruce Schrimpf for the City Attorney's 11 Office. 12 Ladies and gentlemen of the Common 13 Council, this is a Liquor License renewal; it is 14 not the Scopes Monkey Trial. 15 There are simple facts that come forward 16 on this record. The patrons of this location are 17 out of control at closing time, pure and simple. 18 The findings of fact go to that. 19 It's interesting that we're not opposed 20 to a 25-day suspension, but the facts underlying 21 that, which are contained in the findings of fact 22 from the Committee, support the 25-day suspension. 23 So how do you get a 25-day suspension if there is 24 no basis for it if you listen to counsel? The fact 25 of the matter is, there is a basis for it. The 16 1 fact of the matter is, the patrons of this location 2 are out of control at closing time. Neighbors are 3 there. Neighbors live there. Neighbors see what 4 is going on. 5 Let's take a look at this videotape just 6 for a second. First of all, whether or not it was 7 received into the record or received by some sort 8 of formal motion, the fact of the matter is, it was 9 shown to the Committee members, and it was a part 10 of the Committee's deliberation, so it's in the 11 record, de facto. This isn't a court of law where 12 we have to make formal motions to do all of these 13 things. 14 The videotape was taken, and I asked 15 Mr. Zarate a series of questions about this, and 16 this is why I asked him the series of questions: 17 He has an automated surveillance system; it records 18 events. And he simmered down all those events to 19 produce the five- or six- or seven-minute video 20 that was shown to the Committee. Now, the 21 Committee can evaluate that for what it's worth. 22 Obviously, those events were events over a long 23 period of time; they were not in a single moment. 24 The Committee can look at that and say, "Okay, this 25 shows us that there are problems that are evidenced 17 1 and an automated surveillance system picked them 2 up." 3 We have neighbors who are there who are 4 able to identify -- remember this place does not 5 operate all of the time, so we have neighbors who 6 can tell when the place is operating and when 7 they're experiencing some problem. This is simple 8 logic. 9 The fact there is no police report on 10 this place -- there isn't a member on this floor 11 that doesn't realize that police get called. The 12 police have priorities of calls. By the time they 13 show up for noise complaints, problems or something 14 like that, the problem may have resolved itself. 15 They have nothing upon which to base a police 16 report, but that doesn't mean that the neighbors 17 didn't see what they saw. 18 The statute requires that this government 19 body sends out a notice that says, "Hey, we're 20 thinking about not renewing your liquor license and 21 your entertainment licenses and these are the 22 reasons." And they have an opportunity to come 23 forward and present a case and to show cause, in 24 the words of the statute, why the license should 25 not be nonrenewed, or why it should not be 18 1 suspended, or something else happen. And then the 2 Committee has to make a decision, and the decision 3 is going to be made on a variety of factors: from 4 the testimony of the witnesses; from the police 5 report, if any there is; and all these 6 circumstances. 7 So that's why you came up with the 8 recommendation that you did. Frankly, you don't 9 need a police report that recites a long series of 10 things. I would suggest to the members of this 11 Council -- 12 PRESIDENT HINES: One minute. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: -- that if one looks at 14 the incidents that are reflected, and the 15 recommendation was for 25-days suspension, I can 16 think of any number of taverns with a record not as 17 bad in terms of neighborhood problems that it has 18 generated that was nonrenewed. So I don't see any 19 particular issues with any of the things that have 20 been raised. 21 Whether or not you renew this license, 22 whether or not you renew it with a suspension is, 23 as always, reposed to your sound discretion. And I 24 make no recommendation as to any particular kind of 25 punishment should you decide to renew it with a 19 1 suspension of any length. 2 If there are any questions, I'll be happy 3 to try to answer them. 4 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you. Any 5 questions of Assistant City Attorney? 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. 7 PRESIDENT HINES: If not, thank you, 8 Attorney Schrimpf. 9 Alderman Bohl moves that the Common 10 Council resolve itself into the Committee of the 11 Whole for the -- I'm sorry, Alderman Bohl will move 12 that the Committee now rises. Are there any 13 motions relative to this matter? Any additional 14 motions relative to the Committee report? The 15 chair recognizes Alderman Witkowiak. 16 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 17 President, members. Notwithstanding the 18 recommendation of the Licenses Committee for a 19 25-day renewal, this is relative to File No. 20 100062, 606 South 5th Street, notwithstanding the 21 recommendation of the Committee, I'm asking the 22 body to nonrenew this license. 23 PRESIDENT HINES: That is an appropriate 24 motion. Any additional discussion relative to the 25 motion by Alderman Witkowiak, or any additional 20 1 comments relative by other members of the Council? 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 You know, let's go back to the very 5 basics of licensing. Having licenses to sell 6 alcoholic beverages in the City of Milwaukee, it is 7 a privilege; not a right. These attorneys for the 8 applicants come to the table and they speak as 9 though this is some kind of right of theirs to have 10 this license and carry on their activities and that 11 we're doing something wrong by having to govern it, 12 and in some cases, ask for it not to be renewed. 13 Since the last renewal of this license, 14 there were 12 incidents recorded by the Milwaukee 15 Police Department. Several of these incidents: 16 One is waving a gun; the other one is a patron, 17 highly intoxicated, disorderly, interfering with 18 the investigation, subject arguing with other 19 patrons, threatening violence, patron is issued a 20 disorderly conduct, assault and battery, threatened 21 security that he was going to shoot them and the 22 tavern up. Subject was issued a citation for 23 disorderly conduct. 24 A victim was stated he was at Texture 25 Nightclub when he was intentionally struck in the 21 1 face with a glass causing a laceration. And they 2 found that the management and security were 3 untruthful in their involvement in the knowledge of 4 this incident. 5 Patron escorted out of the club for 6 fighting, attempted to reenter, sprayed with mace. 7 Officers observed two subjects physically 8 fighting with Texture security. The argument 9 turned physical, both patrons were cited for 10 disorderly conduct. 11 Another one: The victim stated she was 12 at Texture when she was punched in the mouth. Her 13 and the other subjects were thrown out of the club 14 and in the street. Her ex-boyfriend began kicking 15 and broke her driver's side mirror. 16 Another one: The police observed a fight 17 at the intersection of 5th and Bruce. Patron 18 fighting with Texture security people. They said a 19 patron punched a hole in the wall. And the subject 20 was identified and found to be 20 years of age. 21 Subject stated to police he just showed an ID, and 22 they let them in. Subject admitted drinking, was 23 cited for possession. I asked the police 24 department at the hearing, I said what about a 25 citation for presence of underage? Nobody knew how 22 1 to answer. Here you have a 20-year-old that was 2 cited, that was found inside the club breaking the 3 place up. He was cited for possession and 4 consumption, and, no, there was no citation written 5 to the establishment. 6 And on another one: Patron was escorted 7 out after becoming disorderly, became 8 confrontational with security. The patron was 9 cited with disorderly conduct. 10 This is a pattern that has developed over 11 time since this place was in operation. And you 12 can go back, the entire police report is here and 13 available, and it was present at the meeting. 14 You know, when this place opened up in 15 the first year, they ran a very orderly club, and 16 it was actually an asset to the neighborhood. 17 Since that period of time, since that first year, 18 it has proven to be one of the most disruptive 19 clubs in my district, if not one of the most 20 disruptive clubs in the City of Milwaukee. 21 I just want to, I want to just go back to 22 something the applicant's attorney stated. I 23 believe he was at the same meeting that I was at. 24 And I don't know what -- he caused you to believe, 25 he said there were two, there were two witnesses 23 1 that spoke against this. He is -- that's an 2 untruth; there was a minimum of four. And then he 3 said none of these people could see what was going 4 on and could actually attribute these problems to 5 Texture; absolutely wrong. If any of you were at 6 that meeting or saw that meeting, you had heard the 7 testimony of Mr. Jim Schroeder that said he can see 8 Texture from the window of his apartment. He can 9 look out the window and actually see the front 10 door. He was one of the people that testified. 11 Mr. Pedro Castillo, who lives a block to 12 the west, can be on the second floor and look out 13 his window, saw some problems in his parking lot 14 with people that had parked there, tried to ask 15 them to leave and said, "This is private parking." 16 He was threatened by those people. He went back in 17 the house, and he went upstairs where he can see 18 clearly that they walked to the line to get in the 19 door at Texture. And he testified to such. 20 And you have their attorney coming here 21 and saying that these people couldn't see what they 22 were doing. 23 One of the witnesses that gave the most 24 testimony was Julie Kaufmann that lives one block 25 east of the place. You're absolutely right, you 24 1 cannot see the front door of Texture from her front 2 door, but she testified that she actually gets up 3 when she is awoken in the middle of the night, puts 4 on her shoes and clothes and goes outside and walks 5 up to 5th Street to see where that problem is 6 coming from, and it's coming from Texture. She 7 actually, in her testimony, listen to this, "I 8 personally called the police in 24 of 40 specific 9 instances." This is within the last year. "In at 10 least 15 of those instances when I called the 11 police, I waited until I saw police respond." And 12 then she says for the record, "None of those dates 13 where I called the police and watched them respond 14 specifically to Texture patrons were recorded in 15 the police logs that you heard." Well, this makes 16 me question the police department even more. It's 17 like, "What are you guys doing out there?" Okay. 18 "However, when I called the operator, I 19 specifically indicated it was Texture because I can 20 directly testify," listen to this, "I can directly 21 testify to my observation of those patrons coming 22 from Texture. In addition to noise, I've observed 23 repeated public urination, littering, drag racing, 24 cruising. These are not isolated instances; these 25 are persistent, chronic, significant, large in 25 1 scale and continuing." Okay, an eyewitness, a 2 credible eyewitness, "I personally called the 3 police in 24 of the 40 specific instances," which 4 she logged in a log, she turned that in, turned 5 that over to the Committee. And she testified 6 later on, she said, "When I'm awoken at night, I 7 get up, I put on my clothes, I put on my shoes, I 8 go outside, I walk the block from my house. And I 9 can see that that's coming from Texture." And you 10 have an attorney up here saying that there is no 11 evidence that any this stuff is coming from 12 Texture. 13 I know that some of you are worried about 14 this is going to end up going to court. They have 15 some high-priced attorneys who are going to take 16 this court, and they are going to go and they are 17 going to get an injunction. Well, God bless them. 18 And I'll tell you what, Alderman Bohl said it well 19 during the Committee, if there is a judge that 20 wants to come down here and run this License 21 Committee, let's have him step forth and let me see 22 this. You have guys sitting on the bench there, 23 and God bless him, he was elected and he has 24 supreme knowledge of the law, but let me tell you 25 something, he doesn't know squat about what's going 26 1 on in this neighborhood. He doesn't deal with 2 these problems day to day. He doesn't represent 3 our constituents the way we represent our 4 constituents. 5 We are elected to deliver peaceful 6 enjoyment in our neighborhoods to our people. We 7 are supposed to protect the health, safety and 8 welfare of the people. If I'm not representing my 9 constituents here properly, you tell me what I'm 10 doing then. 11 You may have read, I hope you've read 12 subsequent e-mails after the Committee hearing: an 13 e-mail from Julie Kaufmann and an e-mail from Jose 14 Zarate. 15 The attorneys also, for the applicant, 16 make mention of the fact that this whole problem or 17 complaint against Texture started because of a 18 business across the street. That business, I'll 19 identify that as La Fuente. Arguably, at one time, 20 one of the most popular restaurants in the entire 21 state of Wisconsin. That acclaim is grossly 22 diminished now, and it's because of the action of a 23 lot of the things going on across the street, which 24 would be Texture. 25 Mr. Zarate presented a video. He could 27 1 have given us five hours of video because he has a 2 regular security camera that regularly patrols the 3 street; it's right across the street. But he did 4 the Committee and us a favor by condensing it into 5 a few minutes. And what it showed was one specific 6 night from Texture where a fight erupted on the 7 street at closing time. Very similar to what 8 happens many, many, many nights a year over there, 9 a fight erupted out on the street. There were 10 people that were just pummeled and beat up in the 11 street. And one actor stopped his car in the 12 middle of the street, blocked traffic, somebody got 13 aggravated with something he was saying obviously, 14 pulled him from the car, started beating him up, 15 and somebody else went and stole the car. They 16 came back the next day, and they wanted to know 17 what happened to their car; somebody had actually 18 taken off with their car. Mr. Zarate did us a 19 favor by condensing this video into a few minutes. 20 He could have brought us hours' and hours' worth, 21 which shows this general disorder and mayhem, mind 22 you I used the word "mayhem," in the streets at 23 closing time of this place. 24 There has been complaints about this 25 place for years. There is significant, significant 28 1 records of the problems that this place has caused, 2 and it's time to say no to the renewal of this 3 license. We cannot afford, whether it's in the 4 12th District of Milwaukee or anyplace else in 5 town, to allow a place that operates allowing this 6 type of behavior. We cannot allow that anyplace in 7 the City of Milwaukee. 8 I'm asking you to support me in my 9 request to not renew this license. Thank you. 10 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 11 On the motion, the chair recognizes Alderman 12 Hamilton. 13 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 I'm going to make some general comments. 16 I think that Alderman Witkowiak is a fine 17 representative of his area. So I don't even want 18 to go into the details of the police report and 19 debate the issues of the club and the problems that 20 have occurred at this location. But as a member of 21 the Committee, you know, and I was, you know, a 22 little upset at the last vote simply because we put 23 a tremendous amount of time into hearing both sides 24 of these applications; hours. And to reduce that 25 testimony to five minutes before this body is a 29 1 serious slap in the face to that Committee. And it 2 is extremely frustrating to have to come to this 3 body after going through that experience, and 4 simply because a local representative doesn't get 5 what he's asking for at the Committee, that we have 6 to rehash almost in its entirety at this level. It 7 takes a lot from the Committee. 8 And so, you know, I understand the 9 process, and, you know, to go through that 10 process -- 11 PRESIDENT HINES: On the motion, 12 Alderman. 13 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: On the motion, it 14 really puts us at a precarious position because 15 many of the things that we had to consider are not 16 even being discussed here. And for me to even 17 bring them up, it won't even give them justice. 18 And so, even with the previous file, with 19 the file that's before us right now, there were a 20 number of issues in support of Texture including a 21 businessman who came forward in support of this 22 business. There were a number of operational 23 things that they presented that demonstrated that 24 they had safeguards in place, security in place, to 25 move people along when they left. Were there 30 1 incidents? Yes, there were, and that's why they 2 got a suspension. 3 But as a Committee, we're considering a 4 range of punishments, everything from a warning 5 letter to nonrenewal. None of the Committee 6 members even hinted at a complete nonrenewal. At 7 the Committee, we discussed a 90-day suspension for 8 part of their application; not the whole thing. 9 And that didn't win out at the Committee. You 10 know, and then we come to this body, you know, 11 presenting nonrenewal. 12 And I understand, you know, as local 13 representatives, we have our jobs to do, but when 14 we talk about checks and balances, and we start 15 screaming at judges, one of those checks and 16 balances is supposed to be this body, and we have 17 to exercise that. Thank you. 18 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 19 The chair recognizes Alderman Bohl. 20 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. President. 21 Mr. President, I was one of the two no votes at 22 Committee on this item. And in my view, this item 23 was one that had enough evidence at Committee to 24 not renew the license. 25 I know that from serving roughly ten 31 1 years, or a little more than ten years now, on the 2 Committee that firsthand sworn testimony is 3 something that the Committee will hold very highly 4 for individuals who come forward, take time out of 5 their day to sit through lengthy days. And, in the 6 instance here, that was the case with several 7 neighbors. And that's true with those who are both 8 in favor and opposed to a license. 9 But I know -- personally, I think we all 10 realize that there are neighbors who actually fear 11 showing up, and I'm not going to say specifically 12 here, but in general, coming to hearings and 13 providing testimony. And I think we also recognize 14 that a lot of times there are instances when 15 individuals call, that even instances of loud 16 noise, of drag racing, this is not a priority-one 17 call on a Friday or Saturday evening. 18 So in the case here where you have one 19 resident who lives a block away or one to two 20 blocks away, and she says that she called 20 times, 21 a lot of the occasions by the police department 22 comes out for a half-hour, or a half-hour later, 23 low-priority call on a Friday or Saturday evening, 24 going into the next morning after 2:00, the police 25 department doesn't see the loud noise, the 32 1 squealing, the screeching tires. This can go on 2 for five minutes, and people move out. We can 3 shrug our shoulders and say, "That's five minutes 4 that occurred, hey, somebody lives a couple blocks 5 away from a bar or tavern, they have to put up with 6 that here every weekend." But the fact of the 7 matter is, because it doesn't show up on the police 8 report, because the police department shows up a 9 half-hour, 45 minutes later on a low-priority call, 10 doesn't mean that it's not occurring, and it 11 doesn't mean that it's not problematic activity 12 that is denying a resident of the enjoyment of 13 their home and their neighborhood, their enjoyment 14 of their night's sleep. So this is occurring. 15 And a lot of it is heard on a regular 16 basis with these hearings. And then we get 17 testimony from two individuals, a gentleman who is 18 indicating that on seven or eight occasions that he 19 has personally witnessed that type of activity in 20 terms of fights, that he has a direct line. 21 The woman that Alderman Witkowiak spoke 22 of, Ms. Kaufmann, is a leader of this area here in 23 terms of her involvement with taverns. She 24 represents the Walker's Point Business Association. 25 And she is someone who literally takes time out 33 1 hearing after hearing to show up to testify. And 2 she will go out and visit these types of places, 3 work and organize with neighbors. I think that she 4 understands what we have before us in terms of the 5 rules of evidence. 6 And what I will say is, with reference to 7 the matter of calling the police or not calling the 8 police, there is an issue with bars, and I think we 9 want to encourage establishments to contact the 10 police department if there is an argument or there 11 is a fight in the bar or something is not 12 adequately handled because we feel something worse 13 could happen; an escalation. If there are a few 14 instances in a bar, a tavern, a larger nightclub 15 where this is the case, and they prevent something 16 from happening, that's one thing. When you have a 17 level of violence that reaches to the point where 18 it's beyond just an argument and we just want to 19 settle this, and somebody refuses to leave where 20 individuals when in these instances will resort 21 more to fisticuffs, where they are at a point where 22 they don't want to leave but now are fighting with 23 security, threatening to shoot down, shoot the 24 place up, that is a level above and beyond. That 25 is not a simple, "We had a little bit of a 34 1 disagreement with a couple of people. We were 2 proactively calling the police because somebody 3 really didn't want to leave." That, actually, is 4 an escalation. 5 And when we look at measures as a 6 Committee, one of the things that I view is, is 7 this something that is isolated from time to time, 8 or is this something that happens again and again 9 and again and is part and parcel to an 10 establishment. 11 Now, when you combine those type of items 12 that appear on the police report, and you hear from 13 neighborhoods, and you see video footage, to me, 14 that was worthy of taking this license away. And 15 that's where my basis was in opposing the Committee 16 recommendation. 17 I appreciate all of the comments of my 18 colleague from the 1st. He, like the three other 19 members that joined me on this Committee, are very 20 diligent. We are all very hardworking. I'm very 21 proud of the members of this particular body. As 22 you know, Mr. President, we put in very, very long 23 hours on this Committee, and there is a lot of 24 dedication that goes into that. But what I would 25 say to his comments is simply that we can be like 35 1 the Supreme Court. There are times where you have 2 different members who will look at the same 3 evidence and decide one way or another that they 4 are in disagreement on it. I mean, how many times 5 do we get on the Supreme Court on a controversial 6 issue a unanimous vote? And so, there are times 7 when there are different factors that come into 8 play and members are willing to weigh it in 9 different regard, and that's okay. 10 I just want to make one more brief 11 comment, Mr. President. My colleague from the 12th 12 made reference to two e-mails that were shared by 13 residents subsequent to the Committee hearing. I 14 just would remind the Council members that their 15 recommendations, their vote here should be based 16 upon the findings issued by the Committee and not 17 any information that came subsequent to the 18 individual hearing. Thank you, Mr. President. 19 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 20 The chair recognizes Alderman Kovac. 21 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I just want to give the full Council some 24 idea here of my thinking. I'm one of five votes in 25 Committee, one of 15 votes here. In terms of why I 36 1 did not feel that this club warranted a full 2 nonrenewal, as you can tell from the transcript and 3 the minutes, I was willing to go for a higher 4 suspension. Because as Attorney Schrimpf pointed 5 out, there are multiple instances both on the 6 police report and from neighborhood testimony of 7 the patrons of this bar being out of control at 8 closing time, and that is not an acceptable 9 situation for business neighbors and residential 10 neighbors to be in near Fifth Street. 11 We have had a number of incidents with 12 establishments like this in that neighborhood 13 recently, and I voted, I think on a couple of 14 cases, to nonrenew previous licenses. And at 15 least, when I'm thinking these things through at 16 the Committee level and at the Council level, it's 17 not just about what's already happened, what 18 neighbors have already testified has happened, what 19 the police report has said already happened. 20 Although that's a huge part of it, it's also part 21 of what goes into our thinking because we are 22 looking to the future or the next year. Has the 23 bar owner owned the problems, and have they 24 indicated they are willing to make changes, and is 25 there some optimism that by giving them a stern 37 1 warning as opposed to a final nonrenewal that there 2 might be improvement. 3 In the previous bar that we voted, I 4 voted, to close down, there actually was a much 5 smaller police report, but the testimony of 6 Alderman Witkowiak was actually the main piece of 7 evidence. And in that case, until Alderman 8 Witkowiak provided his very specific testimony in 9 that case, the bar owners were pretending like 10 nothing was going on. So I was not optimistic 11 given that they hadn't owned that current 12 situation, that they would be able to work going 13 forward. 14 In this case, both from the patrons that 15 testified in favor of this and the testimony of the 16 bar owners, there was definitely an ownership. And 17 I think that the points that were made by their 18 attorney about the length of the police report 19 certainly factored into my thinking that they did 20 take our advice. Last year at Committee we said, 21 "Do not hesitate to call the police. It will not 22 hurt you in Committee." 23 And I think Attorney Halbrooks was not 24 quite correct in his standing that, it's not that 25 we didn't factor in the length of the police report 38 1 so much, as some things actually reflect positively 2 on a bar. So it's not that, "Oh, I'm going to 3 ignore that." It's when you read the police 4 report, and it says that the bar owners were 5 proactive, and there was a potential. A minor 6 altercation, verbal, physical, or otherwise, that 7 where a lot of bar owners would just try to handle 8 it themselves, encourage their patrons not to call 9 the police in the hopes that basically it can stay 10 on the downlow. In this case, there were several 11 incidents where it was clear the bar owner and 12 their security went out of their way to call police 13 because they wanted police to be there as soon as 14 possible in the best interest of the neighborhood. 15 So to me, it actually reflected 16 positively on this bar, not just, some of the 17 instances were truly damning, but some of the 18 incidents were relatively minor incidents. But the 19 reason they appeared on the police report is 20 because the bar took the Committee's advice. 21 And so, given that totality of factors, I 22 felt like they needed a strong suspension: 25-days 23 or longer. I was willing to go twice as long or 24 even beyond that. But I did feel a sense that 25 there was a progressive discipline here and that 39 1 there was a potential for this bar, and the many 2 neighbors, people who testified, there was a lawyer 3 next door and many patrons who testified to the 4 positive of a location like this. Certainly, the 5 negative impacts in this are very clear. And then 6 the reason I was willing to support a suspension 7 and not nonrenewal was my sense that the bar and 8 the neighborhood might be able to reduce the 9 negative impacts and keep the positive impacts of 10 the establishment. 11 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 12 The chair recognizes Alderman Witkowiak. 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Just, I'll be brief here, just a little 16 clarification for my colleague from the 1st. I 17 just want to remind, relative to his comments, I 18 just want to remind this body, it is Council that 19 makes decisions; not the Committees. I mean, 20 otherwise, why do we bother doing this? Why don't 21 we just have our Committee meetings and rubber 22 stamp and say that's done. The Committee makes the 23 recommendation; it is the Council that makes the 24 decision. 25 You know, one other thing my colleague 40 1 from the 1st said, that during the Committee's 2 deliberation there was not a hint of anyone 3 proposing nonrenewal. That's not true at all. I 4 think we were sitting in the same room. Alderman 5 Bohl and Alderman Zielinski both stated that they 6 were not budging from their stance on nonrenewal. 7 That's why this was voted on five times, I believe. 8 And there was a stronger suspension, at one time, 9 was suggested by one of the Committee members, I 10 think it was 60 days, and that was voted down, but 11 it was voted down because Alderman Bohl and 12 Alderman Zielinski were in nonrenewal mode, and 13 they stated such at Committee. So for someone to 14 say that this was not a, that there was not even a 15 hint of nonrenewal, that is nowhere near the truth. 16 And my colleague from the 3rd, he was 17 saying something to the effect of, "Well, you know, 18 if this continues, we'll have to do something next 19 year." First of all, as part of the record, the 20 entire police report is here, so you can go back 21 and you can go back to the year 2004. You know, 22 you've only been on the Committee through one of 23 these renewals or possibly two. You have to look 24 back at the record in total. This is not something 25 that just sprung up, and it's like, "Well, if it 41 1 continues to be bad, we'll do something about it 2 next time." This is a problem that has been 3 becoming increasingly worse every year, and if you 4 go back in the record from day number one, you can 5 see that. 6 And just one other comment from my 7 colleague in the 3rd that there were people that 8 testified in favor of this. Two of the -- the two 9 young men also rented apartments in the building 10 and were friends of the building owner. The next 11 one that came down was the building owner, of 12 course, that testified in favor, but why wouldn't 13 he? He gets his rent check every month. And the 14 attorney that is in the building next door, and the 15 attorney chuckled when he said it, he says, "I'm 16 never there late at night to see what might happen 17 at night." So for anybody that's there during the 18 day, they're not going to see any of the problems. 19 You have to be there. You have to be there at 20 night. You have to be there at closing time. And 21 one of their people, the attorney that has the 22 office next door, he said, he chuckled, he said, 23 "I'm never there at night. I wouldn't know what 24 goes on." 25 So the people that testified in 42 1 opposition to the place were bona fide residents 2 with good quality testimony. 3 I'm asking you again, notwithstanding the 4 recommendation of the Committee, to not renew this 5 license. Thank you. 6 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 7 Chair recognizes Alderman Davis. 8 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. I'm going to have to use the NIMBY 10 principle; not in my back yard. If I had this 11 particular establishment in the district in which I 12 represent, my constituents would go ballistic. 13 Taking a look at the police report and the ongoing 14 situations that have occurred at this location, 15 it's amazing how we allow bad behavior to be 16 acceptable. This is really, I mean, I can't 17 condone this type of an establishment having a 18 license year after year coming before this Council 19 with violations. Even within the last license 20 year, I'm taking a look at the violations that, I 21 mean, that are just atrocious. 22 So I do appreciate the members of the 23 Committee deliberating on this issue and taking a 24 look at it, but, you know, if I had this particular 25 establishment in the district that I represent, I 43 1 can tell you this would be not acceptable for the 2 surrounding neighbors. And it's not good for 3 economic development in the area, not when other 4 liquor establishments are taking care of their 5 business. 6 So I'm going to support the motion by the 7 alderman who represents this particular district. 8 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 9 The chair recognizes Alderman Puente. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Just a question, what discipline, if any, 13 was given to this establishment in the past? 14 PRESIDENT HINES: Aldermen, any member of 15 the Committee that can speak to that, or the City 16 Attorney? 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. President, I don't 18 know for sure, perhaps Mr. Schrimpf could clarify, 19 I believe that they have had a ten-day suspension 20 in the past year. I don't know if it was greater 21 than that. The attorneys that represent concur. 22 PRESIDENT HINES: Attorney Schrimpf does 23 not have that information. Maybe it's something we 24 can get. 25 ALDERMAN BOHL: I don't know, Mr. 44 1 President, if there was any type of discipline in 2 years previous to that. 3 PRESIDENT HINES: There was a ten-day 4 suspension in 2009, Alderman Puente. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And they have been 6 there since 2004, is that correct? 7 PRESIDENT HINES: I believe that is the 8 correct timeframe. 9 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. President, it was 10 under the guise of a different name. It may have 11 been the same corporation. I believe this at one 12 point was called the Fly Bar. I don't know if 13 there was additional discipline that took place as 14 Fly Bar, but I believe that may have been the case. 15 PRESIDENT HINES: That's correct, 16 Alderman Bohl. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 PRESIDENT HINES: The chair recognizes 20 Alderman Hamilton. 21 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I just wanted to clarify a few things. 24 First, about the truthfulness of my comments, they 25 were accurate. No one made a motion at Committee 45 1 for the nonrenewal of both licenses. That's what I 2 stated. There was no hint towards nonrenewal of 3 both licenses and just shutting the place down. 4 That's accurate, and that's the truth; that's dead 5 on. 6 Secondly, no one is suggesting that this 7 body should not review the recommendations of any 8 committee. I mean, that is the exercise that we do 9 here. But there also should be a level of respect 10 for the amount of work that goes into whatever is 11 done at the Committee level because that's where 12 the evaluations and that's where the work is done. 13 That's where the questions are asked. That's where 14 both parties are there. That's where the 15 opportunity is to get some of the questions and the 16 misconceptions that I'm hearing from Committee 17 members here of, that's where you get that 18 clarified. And that's, you know, I don't want us 19 to fall into a trap of, as soon as we don't get 20 what we want at Committee that we bring everything 21 to this body. 22 There has been a number of Council 23 meetings where we spent the majority of the Council 24 meeting redoing what was done at Licensing. And it 25 seems to be an increasing pattern, and I want us to 46 1 pull away from that pattern. And if we're going to 2 trust the work of the Committee, or if we have some 3 issues with the work of the Committee, then more 4 people should maybe come and participate at the 5 committee level. As we would do with any 6 committee, we would go to that Committee and 7 participate on any issues that we feel, that we 8 want more issues, I mean, more information about 9 what goes on at Committee, and deal with it. And 10 the same should be for licenses: If you're having 11 a particular concern about the licenses or other 12 issues, then come to the Committee. 13 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you. The chair 14 recognizes Alderman Bohl. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. President. 16 I just wanted to make one more brief 17 point clarifying something that Alderman Witkowiak 18 stated. At the Committee, there were a series of 19 votes. I believe at one point, perhaps it was the 20 initial recommendation, but at one point there was 21 a recommendation that it worked up to a 60-day 22 suspension, renewal with a 60-day suspension, that 23 was supported by two members of the Committee. 24 There were two who actually opposed that because 25 they believed that there needed to be a more stern 47 1 suspension. And then there was an additional 2 member that opposed it because the belief was it 3 was too little. So that was sort of midrange, but 4 there was a willingness of at least four members to 5 go 60 or more. 6 I guess the final result in terms of the 7 recommendation came as a result of the fact that 8 the Committee cannot forward a matter without 9 recommendation to the Council, so you must get an 10 accord of at least three. So if you have an 11 unwillingness on the part of two to fall short of 12 anything less than perhaps a 90-day with a 13 nonrenewal of the music license, as was one vote 14 that was made by Alderman Zielinski I believe, he 15 then even offered one that was perhaps a little 16 less in terms of the penalty on the Class B Tavern 17 but providing for a nonrenewal again of the 18 associated music and dance license. It is 19 misleading, I believe, to believe that somehow 20 there was a full accord of all members, or at least 21 a majority of the members for 25. I think that, I 22 believe that that was a result of settling to get a 23 recommendation to this particular body. 24 The other thing that I just wanted to 25 address ever so briefly is the issue of progressive 48 1 discipline. I think that comes up and it gets 2 raised by members very frequently. There is no, 3 there is no lawful means of progressive discipline. 4 It is not something that is placed in the code 5 which says that members of this body must afford 6 establishments a periodic track record of having 7 problems and give them year after year after year 8 to undo those problems. It is something that can 9 be considered by the Committee and the Council in 10 cases where the belief is that problems can be 11 rectified. And that's individual on this body's 12 own personal decisions. But I just want to get 13 away from this notion that somehow if a place has 14 dramatic problems that we have got to give every 15 single place another shot because they maybe only 16 had a 10- or 20-day suspension, or, you know, we've 17 got to allow them to have another baby step in the 18 process. Each individual license year and the 19 license presented before us is what each Committee 20 member has to factor. They can choose to consider 21 to allow an individual bar time to rectify if they 22 believe it's necessary, if they believe that it is 23 warranted and can be done, but it is not necessary. 24 And there is nothing in the code that says that we 25 must provide multiple opportunities to problematic 49 1 establishments. I just want to make that very 2 clear to members because it is something that we 3 hear attorneys use before the body. It is those 4 very attorneys that use that with the hopes of 5 sustaining a suspension as opposed to sometimes 6 nonrenewing those licenses. 7 I believe, again, Mr. President, it is 8 warranted here. I believe the evidence is 9 sufficient to take this license away. Thank you. 10 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 11 The chair recognizes Alderman Witkowski, I'm sorry, 12 Witkowiak. 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Just one more thing to correct, my 16 colleague from the 3rd said in some other cases 17 there was direct testimony from the alderman for 18 witnessing something. I also testified in this 19 matter that I had directly witnessed a large party 20 that started in the Milwaukee Tech parking lot, 21 which is right around the corner from this 22 establishment. I had constantly, constantly 23 requested that MPS keep that parking lot barricaded 24 and locked with a fence or a gate or something when 25 it is not in legitimate use by MPS. And they 50 1 assured me that they were going to do that, but 2 they, for whatever reason, the lock was gone or the 3 chain was gone or something, and on a particular 4 night within this past year, and I testified to 5 this at Committee, I heard this disruption. It was 6 late in the evening. I walked down 5th Street. I 7 saw people from Texture walk into the Tech parking 8 lot. It was a large number of cars there, music 9 playing, people drinking in public. And I 10 testified to that in the hearing. So I just want 11 to correct that for the record. I, besides the 12 fact that constituents came out and testified to 13 what they personally observed, I did as well. 14 Thank you. 15 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman 16 Witkowiak. No further lights are on. We're going 17 to subject this to a vote. 18 Before I do so, I do want to make a brief 19 comment. It was indicated that there may be some 20 concerns relative to how this body interacts with 21 the recommendations coming from the Licenses 22 Committee. First of all, when it's a split 23 decision -- first, let me say this, that this body 24 has codified its policies to ensure that we have 25 given great respect to the Licenses Committee. If 51 1 it comes from Committee in a 3-2 vote, this body, 2 it's a simple majority that would have to overturn 3 the decision made by the Committee. That's almost 4 a 50/50. If it's a 4-1 vote, then per our laws or 5 policies, it must be three-fourths. So if it comes 6 from Committee 4-1 -- and the reason that was 7 established was to have respect for the due 8 diligence and the commitment by the Committee. The 9 point is well taken, though, but I just wanted to 10 clarify that to have the best understanding of what 11 those votes are and in terms of how we do respect 12 the committees. 13 No further discussion, we're going to 14 subject it to a roll call vote. Because this came 15 out of Committee 3-2, it needs a simple majority 16 vote. Two members were not present to hear the 17 entire argument, subsequently, those two will not 18 be voting on this particular matter. With that 19 being the case, Mr. City Clerk, please call the 20 roll. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. President. 22 PRESIDENT HINES: Clarification. The 23 chair recognizes Alderman Witkowiak 24 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Point of order. Why 25 did you then ask Alderman Donovan and Alderman 52 1 Witkowski when they came into the room, why did you 2 even bother to ask them if they had read the 3 finding of facts? 4 PRESIDENT HINES: Reading the finding of 5 facts is one thing, Alderman, they weren't here for 6 the entire argument presentation that was put forth 7 by the City Attorney nor the applicant during the 8 first hearing process. But let me also get some 9 additional information for you on that. And the 10 rationale behind it was, Alderman, they had entered 11 into the room just at the point where Alderman 12 Bauman was beginning to give his motion. And as a 13 result of that, that's why before we moved forward, 14 if they would have entered before the City Attorney 15 or the attorney for the applicant, if they would 16 have entered the room before they talked or spoke, 17 I would have done that as well, I would have 18 acknowledged whether or not they read the finding 19 of the facts. So it was just based upon the 20 timeliness by which they entered the room. 21 And I could have the city clerk further 22 clarify if you need that, or if the body thinks 23 there is a need to clarify. In fact, why don't you 24 do so, Mr. City Clerk? 25 CITY CLERK: As the President stated, the 53 1 reason for asking, posing the question to Alderman 2 Donovan and Alderman Witkowski was to allow them to 3 participate in the motion, in the vote on the 4 motion of Mr. Bauman on a different license matter 5 for which they had heard the complete testimony. 6 There was no appeal by the applicant at this body. 7 They had read all the records with regard to that 8 item. 9 PRESIDENT HINES: With that, again, that 10 was the rationale. I wanted to at least make that 11 known. But because they were excused during the 12 discussion point, that preempted them from 13 participating. 14 Are there any additional questions? Any 15 additional comments? Any additional 16 clarifications? If not, we're going to subject it 17 to a roll call vote. Mr. City Clerk, please call 18 the roll. 19 CITY CLERK: On the motion to nonrenew 20 notwithstanding the Committee's recommendation, 21 Alderman Hamilton. 22 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: No. 23 CITY CLERK: Davis. 24 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 25 CITY CLERK: Kovac. 54 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 2 CITY CLERK: Bauman. 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 4 CITY CLERK: Bohl. 5 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 6 CITY CLERK: Coggs. 7 ALDERMAN COGGS: No. 8 CITY CLERK: Wade. 9 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 10 CITY CLERK: Puente. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No. 12 CITY CLERK: Murphy. 13 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Dudzik. 15 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 16 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak. 17 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 18 CITY CLERK: Zielinski. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 20 CITY CLERK: Mr. President. 21 PRESIDENT HINES: No. 22 CITY CLERK: 8 ayes, 3 nos, 2 excused. 23 The motion carries. 24 PRESIDENT HINES: 8 ayes 3 nos, 2 25 excused. 55 1 COUNCIL MEMBER: That's not what I get. 2 PRESIDENT HINES: We'll retabulate. 3 CITY CLERK: Excuse me, 8 ayes, 5 nos, 2 4 excused. 5 PRESIDENT HINES: 8 ayes, 5 nos, 2 6 excused. The motion carries. 7 Are there any additional motions relative 8 to the licenses hearing? Are there any additional 9 motions? If there is no further discussion, no 10 further discussion, I would request the vote of 11 those Council members present to approve the 12 recommendations for the Licenses Committee as 13 contained in File No. 100062. Will the city clerk 14 please call the roll? 15 CITY CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 16 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 17 CITY CLERK: Davis. 18 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 19 CITY CLERK: Kovac. 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 21 CITY CLERK: Bauman. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 23 CITY CLERK: Bohl. 24 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 25 CITY CLERK: Coggs. 56 1 ALDERMAN COGGS: Aye. 2 CITY CLERK: Wade. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 4 CITY CLERK: Donovan. 5 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Aye. 6 CITY CLERK: Puente. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 8 CITY CLERK: Murphy. 9 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 10 CITY CLERK: Dudzik. 11 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 12 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak. 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Witkowski. 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Aye. 16 CITY CLERK: Zielinski. 17 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 18 CITY CLERK: Mr. President. 19 PRESIDENT HINES: Aye. 20 CITY CLERK: 15 ayes. 21 PRESIDENT HINES: 15 ayes, 0 nos. The 22 file is adopted. Any further discussion to the 23 Committee report? The chair recognizes Alderman 24 Witkowski. 25 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 57 1 President. 2 Regarding File No. 100208, I have a 3 simple amendment on Page 3 of the ordinance that 4 would exempt secondhand clothing dealers and 5 clothing accessories from the reporting 6 requirements. 7 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman 8 Witkowski. Before we entertain that, I do want to 9 dismiss the court reporter, thank her for her 10 services. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MILWAUKEE ) 3 4 5 I, KAREN RENEE, Court Reporter and Notary 6 Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, do hereby 7 certify that the above hearing was recorded by me on 8 July 7, 2010, and reduced to writing under my personal 9 direction. 10 I further certify that I am not a 11 relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of 12 the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney 13 or counsel, or financially interested directly or 14 indirectly in this action. 15 In witness whereof I have hereunder set 16 my hand and affixed my seal of office at Milwaukee, 17 Wisconsin, this 18th day of July, 2010. 18 19 ___________________________ 20 Karen Renee Court Reporter and Notary Public 21 In and for the State of Wisconsin 22 23 My Commission Expires: March 11, 2012. 24 25