1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE LICENSES COMMITTEE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter of: TEXTURE Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Amusement/Cabaret License SALVATORE SALVO "TEXTURE" 606 South 5th Street * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Proceedings had and testimony given in the above-entitled matter before the LICENSES COMMITTEE CITY OF MILWAUKEE on the 21st day of June, 2010. 2 1 * * * * * 2 3 I N D E X 4 5 Items Accepted Into The Record: Page 6 7 Motion By Mr. Halbrooks........................... 22 8 Document by Ms. Kaufmann.......................... 41 9 Hand Brochures By Mr. Schroeder................... 48 10 Alderman Witkowiak's E-Mail....................... 104 11 12 13 14 15 16 * * * * * 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Salvatore Salvo agent 3 for Pop Promotions, LLC, Class B Tavern and Tavern 4 Amusement Cabaret renewal application change of 5 hours of operation for Texture at 606 South 5th 6 Street. Good afternoon, good evening. 7 MR. SALVO: Good afternoon. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If we could have our 9 applicant's family business partner raise your 10 right hand, present here? 11 THE CLERK: Do you solemnly affirm under 12 the pains and penalties of perjury in the State of 13 Wisconsin to tell the truth, the whole truth and 14 nothing but the truth? 15 MR. SALVO: I do. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have two attorneys 17 here if we could, would you state your appearance? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 Attorney David Halbrooks and Attorney Matt Lerner 20 appear for the applicant. Good afternoon. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Good afternoon. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, good evening. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It's afternoon 24 somewhere; it's apparently evening here. 25 And for our agent here, if we could 4 1 actually have you -- or we have already sworn you 2 in here. Are you Mr. Salvo, here? 3 MR. SALVO: Yes. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Name and mailing address 5 for the record, please. 6 MR. SALVO: My address? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your name and your 8 mailing address, please, for the record. 9 MR. SALVO: My name is Salvatore Salvo. 10 I live at 7454 South Logan Avenue, Oak Creek, 11 Wisconsin 53134. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And Mr. 13 Salvo, do you acknowledge receiving notice of 14 today's meeting with the possibility your 15 application could be denied? There is an attached 16 police report that should have been part of your 17 notice as well as an outline of potential 18 neighborhood objections, which could serve as a 19 means for denial. 20 MR. SALVO: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. This is an 22 existing license. We have some changes in 23 entertainment being sought as well as a proposed 24 change in hours of operation. Mr. Pfaff, nothing 25 with regards to hold, right? 5 1 MR. PFAFF: Correct. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sergeant, what we will 3 do is, we'll go right to you for the police 4 report. 5 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: Okay. I'll start 6 at Page 5, about the top third. The following 7 incidents were previously reported, dispositions 8 now entered on 4/16/2010. The following applies 9 to Salvatore Safina, charge of assault and battery 10 finding was dismissed without prejudice on 11 8/31/2009. 12 The following applies to Donato Salvo, 13 charge of vandalism, dismissed without prejudice 14 on 8/31/2009. 15 Item 9: On 3/21/2009, Milwaukee Police 16 were flagged down by Texture's security regarding 17 a subject with a weapon complaint. Security 18 stated a subject in a dark-colored Dodge Durango 19 was seen waving a gun out the window. Police 20 located the auto and conducted a traffic stop. 21 Officers recovered a gun, and the suspect was 22 arrested and charged. 23 Item 10: On 10/31/2009, at 1:35 a.m., 24 Milwaukee Police conducted a license premise check 25 at 606 South 5th Street. As officers conducted 6 1 the check, a patron who was highly intoxicated 2 became disorderly and was interfering with the 3 investigation. Security attempted to escort the 4 patron out of the tavern but he began to argue 5 with the guards. Officers arrested and cited the 6 patron with -- should be "for," disorderly 7 conduct. 8 Page 6, Item 11: On 11/7/2009 at 2:14 9 a.m., officers were monitoring the Texture tavern 10 crowd and traffic control when officers responded 11 to a fight in the bar's parking lot. Officers 12 observed security through the bar struggling with 13 a patron. Security stated to the officers that 14 the subject started arguing with the other patrons 15 when he threatened violence. Security stated that 16 they feared it would turn physical, so they 17 attempted to remove the patron when he struck one 18 of the guards in the face. The patron was issued 19 citations for disorderly conduct and assault and 20 battery. 21 Item 12: On 11/19/2009 at 1:04 a.m., 22 Milwaukee Police were dispatched to 606 South 5th 23 Street for an altered currency complaint. 24 Officers spoke to the manager, Salvatore Taomina, 25 who stated a patron attempted to pass a 7 1 counterfeit hundred dollar bill at the front door 2 for a $10 cover charge. Taomina stated the 3 subject was no longer on scene, but he had video 4 surveillance of the incident. A report was filed. 5 Item 13: On 11/23/2009 at 12:36 a.m., 6 Milwaukee Police were dispatched to 606 South 5th 7 Street for a subject with a gun complaint. 8 Officers spoke with Donato Salvo who stated that a 9 known patron was inside the club and was escorted 10 out by security when he was observed flashing gang 11 signs. Once the patron was outside, he threatened 12 security that he was going to shoot them and the 13 tavern operator. The patron continued to make 14 threats and refused to leave, so security detained 15 him until police arrived. The subject was issued 16 a citation for disorderly conduct and told he was 17 no longer welcome at the club. 18 Item 14: On 1/11/2010 at 12:10 a.m., 19 Milwaukee Police were dispatched to 3rd and 20 National for a battery-while-armed complaint. 21 Officers spoke to the victim who stated he was in 22 the Texture Nightclub when he was intentionally 23 struck in the face with a glass causing a 24 laceration that required stitches. Police 25 continued the investigation at Texture and found 8 1 that management and security were untruthful in 2 their involvement and knowledge of the incident. 3 Item 15: On 2/14/2010 at 1:57 a.m., 4 Milwaukee Police were dispatched to 5th and Bruce 5 for a battery complaint. Police spoke to the 6 victim who stated he was sprayed with mace by 7 security from Texture. Officers continued the 8 investigation at Texture and spoke to a security 9 guard identified as Eric Rivera. Rivera stated 10 the patron was escorted out of the club for 11 fighting. The patron attempted to reenter the 12 club and was putting his hands on security when he 13 was sprayed with mace. Security provided water 14 and flushed his eyes out. Officers reviewed video 15 surveillance that showed the incident. Call was 16 advised. 17 Item 16: 2/15/2010 at 12:33 a.m., 18 Milwaukee Police were flagged down for trouble 19 with a subject complaint at 600 South 5th Street. 20 Officers observed two subjects physically fighting 21 with Texture's security. Security stated the 22 fight started when the patron was asked to put her 23 shoes back on. The patron's boyfriend got angry 24 and started arguing with security. Security 25 escorted both parties out, and that's when the 9 1 argument turned physical. Both patrons were cited 2 for disorderly conduct. 3 Item 17: On 2/21/2010 at 1:30 a.m., 4 Milwaukee Police were met, correction, Milwaukee 5 Police met a battery victim at District 5. The 6 victim stated she was at the Texture Club when her 7 ex-boyfriend, the father of her child, approached 8 her and punched her in the mouth. The victim 9 stated they had a brief argument before he had 10 punched her, and security then escorted her 11 ex-boyfriend from the club, and she left shortly 12 after. The victim stated, correction, the victim 13 further stated she got into a car when her 14 ex-boyfriend began kicking and breaking her 15 driver's side mirror. The victim stated that is 16 when she drove to the police station. A report 17 was filed. 18 Item 18: On Page 7, on 2/28/2010 at 19 2:00 a.m., Milwaukee Police observed a fight at 20 the intersection of 5th and Bruce. Investigation 21 found a patron was fighting with Texture's 22 security, and officers cited him for disorderly 23 conduct and resisting and obstructing an officer. 24 Officers were also flagged down for property 25 damage that occurred inside of the club -- it says 10 1 "instead" here, but it should be "inside" the club 2 -- a patron punched a hole in the wall, and the 3 subject was identified and found to be 20 years of 4 age. The subject stated to police that he just 5 showed his ID and they let him in. The subject 6 admitted to drinking and was cited for 7 possession/consumption of alcohol and vandalism. 8 Item 19: On 3/14/2010 at 1:44 a.m., 9 Milwaukee Police were flagged down by security at 10 Texture for a trouble-with-subject complaint. 11 Security stated they escorted a patron out after 12 he became disorderly and he became confrontational 13 with security. The patron was cited for 14 disorderly conduct. 15 Item 20: On 3/20/2010 at 11:57 p.m., 16 Milwaukee Police conducted a license premise check 17 at 606 South 5th Street. Officers observed 18 several patrons paying cover charges but found no 19 sign posted. Police spoke to Salvatore Salvo who 20 stated he was not aware he needed to post a sign 21 for cover charges. Salvatore was shown the city 22 ordinance and issued a citation. Charged with 23 "tavern charges to be posted," pretrial set. The 24 date is changed, pretrial set for 6/30/2010 at 25 1:30 p.m. 11 1 And the following applies to corporate 2 officer Salvatore Safina: On 11/25/2009, Safina 3 received a citation for place, use, hunt wild 4 animals with bait in Adams County. Charge of 5 place, use, hunt wild animals with bait finding of 6 guilty, fined. And the date of that was 7 11/13/2009. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Any 9 questions or comments you have related to the 10 police reports? 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, just a couple, if I 12 may, and I don't know if it's proper to inquire to 13 the Chair or Sergeant MacGillis, I didn't see the 14 words "police objections" stamped anywhere in the 15 report. Was that a -- did I miss it, or there is 16 no police objection? 17 OFFICER MACGILLIS: We have no knowledge 18 of any police objections, sir. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So there is no 20 police objection. All right. I would just ask 21 that legally, if you -- there are a number of 22 things that are, with regard to that report, the 23 ordinance that the police are supposed to -- we 24 actually followed the ordinance of what the police 25 are legally supposed to report on, and there are 12 1 some circumstances where there are arrests, there 2 were some circumstances where the convictions in 3 90-11(c)(1), but I don't believe it's acceptable 4 to use citations that are tried and then 5 dismissed. So I would ask that -- I doubt that 6 it's going to swing on that, but I would ask the 7 first two items of the report to be stricken given 8 that the cases were dismissed. I don't believe 9 there is a legal basis to include them. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The first two items that 11 were cited relating to -- 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Two citations. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- 4/15/2010. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: They were citations. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The assault and battery 16 and vandalism? 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Right. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The first item. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: I don't believe there is 20 a legal basis to include them. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. I mean, I 22 think that is something that the Committee does 23 realize. When there is an item that is dismissed, 24 that is not an item for consideration. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So I would move to 13 1 strike. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I don't have a problem 3 doing so formally in terms of making a decision to 4 strike those items for consideration. I think 5 that is something that is well known. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But I'll do that 8 formally. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Attorney Schrimpf, 12 what is the law? 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Under Wisconsin State 14 Law, and specifically, in the Wisconsin Fair 15 Employment Act, of all things, you cannot hold 16 somebody responsible for a record of an arrest 17 where that arrest is dismissed. And if you would 18 not strike them, you would be violating the 19 provisions of the Wisconsin Fair Employment Act in 20 that regard. There was an arrest, but it was a 21 citation; there was no conviction. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Is there -- I'm just 23 thinking not only with this case but all of the 24 cases, if stuff is dismissed, then why is it on 25 the report at all? 14 1 OFFICER MACGILLIS: Because it's in the 2 municipal court system. I mean, that's where -- 3 required to change it -- that's to my knowledge, 4 ma'am, unless the ordinance is changed, then we 5 won't report it. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: I've also had some 7 litigation, in fact with Mr. Halbrooks, on this 8 point, and the judges have no particular problem 9 to the items being reported by the police 10 department because that's what they are supposed 11 to do. But if it was dismissed, clearly, the 12 Committee should not consider it. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: We should, we should 14 always indicate those items are appealed. We just 15 want them known. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: There are, frequently 17 there are times where an individual appears before 18 this Committee and those items are not adjudicated 19 and there is a carryover. Oftentimes, it's 20 reported on at the next hearing, but there is no 21 problem in formalizing what I believe this 22 Committee already should know. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Right, but there are 24 specific provisions in the ordinance for arrests 25 related to alcohol matters. And you will notice 15 1 the last ones, I didn't object to, so it was 2 specific to the ones that were dismissed. But I 3 think that probably the only things that are 4 legally on the report are that last conviction for 5 hunting, or something. I think if you actually 6 look at what the police department is required to 7 report, and that's -- I don't know, I can hand out 8 my motion, if the Chair is ready. 9 While the motion is getting handed out, 10 I wanted to just deal with one thing as a 11 precursor that is not in the motion, and that's, 12 after I left the last hearing, which was kind of 13 late in the evening, I went home, and my TV was 14 still going, and there was another hearing on 15 about a club down the street from Texture. And I 16 gathered from the comments that in the original 17 hearing that there has been a number of comments 18 about Texture. And I want to make certain that we 19 get, everybody on the Committee realizes we 20 weren't here for that, and we didn't get a chance 21 to make any presentations, and we don't know 22 exactly what caused the Chair to make those 23 comments. But we expect that here, everything 24 that is going to be decided will be based on what 25 is said here today. I would at least hope, I 16 1 presume, I can rely on all of you for that. That 2 that matter was -- whatever happened in the other 3 case that, you know, I don't believe these two 4 clubs are related in any way in terms of their 5 practices and procedures, and I would hope they be 6 judged separately. 7 But with regard to the motion, I have a 8 number of things, and I guess what I would like to 9 start with are these issues that I would segue 10 from the police not objecting. Obviously, our 11 position is always, and will continue to be, based 12 on the ordinances. The police have six items they 13 are to report to legally. They can object and 14 they can include, for instance, all of the items 15 that are in this police synopsis, which we believe 16 is hearsay, and we will object to based on 17 hearsay, but we -- the ordinance that provides for 18 45 days prior for objections to be noticed, the 19 police didn't put an objection in. There are two 20 documents in the file that are -- and only two 21 documents, one is anonymous. Now, it wasn't 22 anonymous. Somebody at the City of Milwaukee used 23 their discretion to make it anonymous. Now, my 24 recollection, as being in a city attorney 25 continuing education that Mr. Schrimpf was one of 17 1 the presenters on, the law regarding keeping 2 things confidential is, as I understand, the 3 following: That there must be an expressed 4 promise in order to keep it confidential; and 5 secondly, the information must not be available 6 any other way. And then there is a balancing test 7 on the rights of the public to know. 8 So we would strongly object to the use 9 of the anonymous objection to renewal, which, as 10 far as I can tell, is the only legal basis that 11 the Committee has for holding this hearing. 12 Without the person -- the person asked for 13 confidentiality they were clearly not expressly 14 promised by this government, and we don't know 15 whether the information was available. The person 16 indicated they would come forward tonight. If 17 they do come forward tonight, they're 18 approximately 45 days too late. So we would ask 19 if they are here that they come forward, but we 20 would ask for any reliance on that anonymous, 21 confidential document to be stricken. 22 Secondly, the other document is a letter 23 by Attorney Friesler, which contains hearsay upon 24 hearsay, and it does not ask for nonrenewal. 25 Legally, the letter does not provide a basis for 18 1 this Committee to even hold a hearing under the 2 ordinances, let alone an objection to renewal. It 3 expresses some concerns, and, I presume, everybody 4 involved is here in the room and will get a chance 5 to talk about that. 6 With that being said, there are, there 7 is, under the ordinance, no legal basis for the 8 hearing, and we would ask for that to be stricken, 9 the anonymous, and for the other one to not be 10 considered due to hearsay and the lack of 11 complying with the ordinance. 12 I want to put this in, I don't -- I 13 presume -- I will go as quick as I can through the 14 rest; I presume they will all be denied. I want 15 to put in a new objection to our standard 16 objections to the 30-minute deadline. I believe 17 that there are due process concerns with that. 18 And to the extent that we have to rush through and 19 not be able to put in all of our matters, we would 20 ask that the Committee use their discretion too. 21 It's certainly not by ordinance, so as policy of 22 the Committee, we would ask that each side be 23 given as much time. 24 Paragraph C just regards, is regard to 25 the items on the police report that are before the 19 1 license here. 2 Paragraph D refers to the issues found 3 regarding the improper notice, in the notice, 4 which indicates that there is a possibility your 5 license won't be renewed. We actually went by 6 state law in Chapter 125. There is a procedure, 7 which, for the life of me, I don't understand why 8 this Committee doesn't use; it would solve a lot 9 of troubles. There is a procedure that the notice 10 is an intent to not renew. That's what most of 11 the aldermen want, that would make a lot of jobs, 12 it would certainly make a lot of these hearings a 13 lot easier and get us more on track for what's 14 going on. The process that's used here doesn't 15 comply with ordinance or the state law. And, 16 obviously, if anybody brings anything outside, 17 anybody during the course of this hearing, we 18 would, obviously, put it out there so we all can 19 talk about it. 20 We, again, obviously, will object to the 21 police department appearing in objections, put in 22 an objection. 23 And, again, I covered the intention not 24 to renew. And then our plan is to do our 25 procedure as we have done in the past. The parts 20 1 of the presentation that require reading and 2 looking at all of the reports, Mr. Lerner will 3 cover. I will not participate in that, so if that 4 is acceptable to the Chair. 5 And the rest of the motion is of the 6 law. I would indicate that with regard to the 7 neighborhood objections, I've gone through what's 8 in the police report. And the only things that I 9 can find in the notice that we wouldn't object to 10 are littering, parking, congregation of unruly 11 patrons, vandalism, disorderly conduct, fights, 12 and conduct which is detrimental to health, safety 13 and welfare. Those are -- if I give the broadest 14 possible, and Mr. Pfaff and I went through this 15 last time, and I think quite successfully, I went 16 through the two documents, and all the items in 17 the police report, that is as the universe of all 18 the things that are covered. So I would ask the 19 Committee to redact the drug and criminal 20 activity, trespass, public urination. There are 21 no complaints of any of those things; no loitering 22 complaints, no loud music, no racing, no traffic 23 problems. None of those exist in this particular 24 matter. And I would ask that it be limited to 25 littering, parking, congregation of unruly 21 1 patrons, vandalism, disorderly conduct. 2 So those are the things that are in the 3 police report. And I would hope that that we 4 could have the hearing based on that, and that any 5 testimony is limited to just the things we had 6 notice of. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Pfaff, was there a 8 rationale for the broader notice? 9 MR. PFAFF: Yes. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could provide 11 that, please? 12 MR. PFAFF: There is also instances of 13 urination. In the 11/7/09 e-mail, of drag racing. 14 There is an instance regarding, one complaint 15 regarding security staff, and then another e-mail 16 of the security staff using a bullhorn on the 17 street. So that's where the actions and practices 18 of the security staff comes in. The racing of 19 vehicles, that's an explicit complaint from an 20 e-mail, an 11/7/09 e-mail. I think that's the one 21 where the person wanted to remain anonymous, 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. If I could, if we 23 could make clear, just to interrupt, who wrote 24 that e-mail? 25 MR. PFAFF: I don't have that as to 22 1 wrote it. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah, we can't -- Mr. 3 Chair, if we allow anonymous e-mails, a lot more 4 is assumed than just -- if we're going to have a 5 notice about handwritten objections from somebody 6 anonymous, we can't function as a society or 7 government. I think that's just, it's not 8 possible for us to consider that. I would ask 9 that those things be stricken. We didn't get 10 notice of who is doing it. We have -- there is 11 no provision in the ordinance for anonymous 12 complaints. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, Mr. Halbrooks, I 14 will just rule on the entirety of your body of 15 motion, and I will deny every provision of it. I 16 will say, we will acknowledge it. We will 17 actually move to make this document part of our 18 official record in this proceeding. And we will 19 have Alderman Kovac so move that. Hearing no 20 objections to that, so ordered. 21 I think that, not withstanding what you 22 are stating here, you're presuming that somehow an 23 anonymous document is going to, is going to take 24 someone's license away. You are provided a 25 due-process hearing where that individual must 23 1 show up. I'm not telling you something you don't 2 already know. That person must show up, they must 3 provide testimony and have the ability to be cross 4 examined by you and your other capable colleague 5 here. And only on the basis of what is provided 6 in testimony here that is properly noticed may 7 serve as a legal means or a determination of any 8 sanctions by this body. 9 So at this point, were there any other 10 issues? Now that we have accepted your motion 11 here and denied it on the particular counts, do 12 you wish to make it as an objection? 13 MR. HALBROOKS: No, and I appreciate you 14 letting me fly through as quickly as I could. If 15 I may, just let me see if I understand that last 16 point. If the person doesn't show up and prove 17 that they are the ones that did it, then the 18 Committee will not be considering that? 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, no, I said -- 20 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Legally, we have to 23 consider testimony of neighbors present. If the 24 person who sent the anonymous e-mail is not 25 present, that is not comments that are considered 24 1 in our determination. I believe that is what the 2 Chairman was alluding to. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. My 4 objection is just the notice about what we're here 5 for, or what we're not here for. And it's very 6 difficult when the ordinance says someone has to 7 do it in writing, that we now can do it 8 anonymously. And I hope, you know, everybody in 9 the room understands that. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have discussed those 11 bases publically. And I believe that we probably 12 disagree with what our city attorney's office has 13 provided us as the rationale for a notice. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Depends on -- like what 15 you're -- 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, that may be. 17 Legally, we have had those disagreements, and, you 18 know, as far as I know, we've not been told by the 19 court system not to make changes, to my knowledge. 20 We'll just go on that basis. 21 With that being said, I'm going to call 22 the contested hearing in this particular matter. 23 I will reject that particular request that you 24 have made in your motion. I will establish a 25 procedure in policy for 30 minutes for each side. 25 1 We would ask that individuals try to provide as 2 timely a response to their testimony, and that if 3 they substantially agree or disagree, that they, 4 please, indicate so. I mean, if we get to the 5 point where the individual applicant, five people 6 come forward and say, "He is the greatest guy in 7 the world," by the time four people have said it, 8 all you have to do is come forward, and you don't 9 have to provide us with ten examples of why he is 10 the greatest guy in the world, "I substantially 11 agree with four people who stated before me that 12 he is the greatest guy in the world." Period. 13 And your testimony is done. So often individuals 14 who are in the audience have to somehow prove or 15 disprove. That's what the attorneys are here for. 16 That's what the applicants are here for. Tell us 17 what you see or hear, okay, and only. What we 18 deal with is those who are here in objection, if 19 there are those individuals, we need to hear from 20 those things that you personally have witnessed. 21 When we get you to come forward here, 22 what I'll ask to do is, we'll ask that we at least 23 relinquish the front row here, in front of me. It 24 is the Committee's procedure to hear from 25 objectors first. So what we'll need to do is, we 26 1 will swear all those witnesses in, both for and 2 against. We will move the objectors to the front 3 row here. And what we will do is, when it's your 4 time, if you are physically able to use the 5 standing microphone, we will ask you to do that. 6 If you are unable to physically utilize the 7 standing microphone, you may take a seat here at 8 the table. We will need -- you will have already 9 been sworn in, we will need your name and your 10 address for the record. When you provide your 11 name, if there is any question about the spelling 12 of your name, if it is unusual to the point where 13 it is not "Joe Smith," an obvious Joe Smith, we 14 would ask that you please spell it. So if there 15 is any question, because if you say "Smythe," and 16 it's, S-M-Y-T-H-E, or S-Y-M-T-H, please spell that 17 for our record here right before you go. And then 18 be as concise as possible if you can in your 19 testimony. If we take considerable time, I'm 20 going to ask you to wrap it up. I will let the 21 attorneys and the representatives on either side 22 know when we are running out of time. So what I'm 23 going to say is, those of you who have the ability 24 to provide the most exact testimony, please try to 25 get forward and provide your testimony first. 27 1 Because it will get to the point where if 2 individuals provide considerable time, that we may 3 not get to all individuals. And that is part of 4 the contested hearing procedure that we have in 5 place. 6 And so, with that being said, for those 7 individuals who are present here both in favor and 8 opposed to the license, if you intend to provide 9 testimony either way, I would ask you at this time 10 if you would raise your right hand, and we will 11 swear both sides in. At this point, if you intend 12 to provide testimony in any way, shape or form 13 here, please raise your right hand. And, again, I 14 won't ask this later. If you do not raise your 15 right hand now, please don't raise your hand later 16 and do the, "Oh, oh, oh, oh," because we get that. 17 I get that a lot. "I didn't intend to, Alderman, 18 but now I want to." Please, if there is any 19 question, you can raise your right hand now and 20 choose not to come forward later. But it doesn't 21 work the other way around. Please raise your 22 right hand. 23 Could you swear them in? 24 THE CLERK: Do you solemnly affirm under 25 the pains and penalties of perjury in the State of 28 1 Wisconsin that the testimony you are about to give 2 is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 3 truth? 4 ALL: Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: May I see a show of 6 hands of those who are here in objection to the 7 license? One, two, three, four, five, six, about 8 seven individuals. If you could come forward now 9 and take these seats in the front row here? That 10 way we can proceed in an orderly fashion. 11 Good afternoon, evening. 12 MS. KAUFMANN: Good evening. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We will have you provide 14 your name and address for the record, please. 15 MS. KAUFMANN: Julie Kaufmann, 16 K-A-U-F-M-A-N-N. My address is 602 South 3rd 17 Street. Just before I start, I'm guessing I'm the 18 anonymous e-mail. I did send an e-mail reference 19 on 11/7. I did not make it anonymous. I did 20 indicate in that e-mail, I'd like to add, that I 21 have a very real threat of personal retribution as 22 a result of taking this position. To the extent 23 that it's allowable by law or possible to be 24 discrete, I preferred that my objection not be 25 widely known to the licensee unless required or 29 1 until the time of the hearing when I make my 2 objections known in person. Just for what it's 3 worth, I believe that was me, and I didn't say I 4 needed to be anonymous. I'm not aware that was 5 the case. 6 Many of you know, I'm the -- I volunteer 7 as the license chair for the neighborhood Walker's 8 Point, and so I'm very familiar with many of the 9 operators in our neighborhood. I make it my 10 volunteer job to stay very well aware. 11 In this particular case, I'm exclusively 12 testifying as an individual to my personal 13 observations. I've waited a full year for this 14 testimony. I've had many sleepless nights until 15 this day. 16 Texture is by far the most egregious and 17 problematic operator in my neighborhood. Texture 18 is located on 5th Street, but it essentially 19 extends towards 4th Street and Bruce. I live on 20 3rd and Bruce. There is a vacant athletic lot 21 between my property and their property. 22 From June 2009 until November 2009, 23 about the first half of the license we're 24 considering, I was disturbed by noise more than 40 25 nights by Texture and its patrons. I can provide 30 1 each of those dates if necessary. The hours of 2 disturbance were generally between 1:00 a.m. and 3 2:00 p.m., 2:00 a.m., excuse me. Typically, they 4 occur on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. The 5 disturbance has been from honking of horns, 6 external loud speakers used by Texture to disperse 7 clients, it sounds like this, "Eh eh, move your 8 car. Eh eh, move your car." That's about 2:00 9 a.m. It's in a loudspeaker, and it comes right 10 into my bedroom window. Loud music is played by 11 those cars, squealing their tires. The 12 disturbance typically lasted during this period of 13 time 30 to 60 minutes. These typically involve at 14 least a dozen vehicles; typically, it is more than 15 that. At this time, during their operation they 16 were using a parking lot, which I don't know if 17 you can see it, it is between where they're 18 located and I'm located. I believe it's over by 19 the city -- it's operated by MPS. It's a large 20 parking lot, which they reference as their parking 21 lot, but to my knowledge, it is not actually their 22 parking lot that's being used. So it essentially 23 became a big after-party at bar closing. Those 24 dozens of cars would hang out in that lot. And 25 their security would respond with that noise I 31 1 made while they were having these parties. 2 I personally called the police in 24 of 3 those 40 specific instances. In at least 15 of 4 those instances when I called the police, I waited 5 until I saw police respond. For the record, none 6 of those dates where I called the police and 7 watched them respond specifically to Texture 8 patrons were reported in the police logs that you 9 heard. So I assume that is because the police, 10 when they responded, didn't associate those 11 incidents directly to Texture. However, when I 12 called the operator, I specifically indicated it 13 was Texture because I can directly testify to my 14 observation of those patrons coming from Texture. 15 In addition to noise, I've observed 16 repeated public urination, littering, drag racing, 17 and cruising. These are not isolated incidents; 18 these are persistent, chronic, significant, large 19 in scale and continuing. 20 In November of 2009, the media began 21 reporting on the problems in our neighborhood 22 bringing negative light to the community we live 23 in working hard to call our homes. A subsequent 24 neighborhood meeting was called by the alderman to 25 address these concerns. At that meeting 32 1 approximately 20 neighbors were in attendance and 2 raised similar concerns. Rather than address the 3 issues, Texture's operators who were in attendance 4 pointed fingers at other operators. The owners of 5 Texture have not addressed these problems. They 6 have not reached out to neighbors, and they 7 continue to disrespect the community through their 8 actions. 9 Not less than 20 additional times since 10 the time of that meeting, I have again experienced 11 these problems. These most recent incidents for 12 me occurred as recently as the weekend before 13 last. I was awoken at 1:00 a.m. on June 13th. I 14 watched drivers leave Texture and cruise my 15 neighborhood. As they hung out of the windows and 16 passed my house, I said, "Hey, where's the party?" 17 And they said, "Texture," which I knew because I 18 watched them come out of Texture. The next night, 19 June 14th -- which would be funny if it wasn't 20 2:00 in the morning, and my 3-year-old is awoken, 21 "Tell me; Mommy, what's all the noise from?" The 22 next morning, June 14th, which was a Monday 23 morning, I called the police on June 14th, this 24 time this was Sunday/Monday morning. And I waited 25 for the police to respond, cruising again, lots 33 1 and lots and lots of people, very, very loud, 2 cruising around my house, and I did watch for the 3 police to respond that night as well. 4 If I add all the times I've been 5 disturbed over the past year, with the police 6 report you've heard, even if you only count a 7 couple of them, even if they are all struck, this 8 totaled to more than once a week throughout the 9 year, all of my personally-observed incidents. In 10 other words, every week that Texture is operating, 11 this happens. Every week. 12 These are not minor nor are they 13 isolated. And I would love to have played them 14 at-volume for you so you can experience how 15 significant this is. They are substantial, 16 repetitive, and the operator has demonstrated 17 complete unwillingness or inability to be 18 responsive. 19 I just want to ask you, if this case is 20 not a case for denial, I would like you to answer, 21 and it's not rhetorical, what would be? 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Ms. 24 Kaufmann, if you could please hold. Questions, 25 first by Committee? 34 1 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 3 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Ms. Kaufmann, you 4 said the 40 dates -- 5 MS. KAUFMANN: Yes. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: -- you can provide 7 them, if you could. Can we -- is there -- are 8 they part of the record? 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are they part of the 10 record here now? To my knowledge, no. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Can she provide them? 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are they in the e-mail? 13 MS. KAUFMANN: No. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Would you have hard 15 copies? 16 MS. KAUFMANN: I wrote them down. I 17 don't have a copy. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Why don't we get a copy 19 of that? 20 MS. KAUFMANN: Okay. They are my 21 personal notes. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you're willing to 23 provide that, we will need multiple copies, 24 including a copy to their attorney. 25 MS. KAUFMANN: Sure. 35 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll pause, making that 2 part of the record, so that we have copies. Are 3 there other questions by Committee at this time? 4 Questions from Texture? 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. First, I would -- 6 I understand the testimony we just heard, I 7 understand that the e-mail was sent November 9, 8 2009, and I believe that should be the cutoff for 9 her dates that we consider. I don't know how much 10 she could be reporting on something that hasn't 11 happened yet. And if we're going to consider 12 dates and responses and objections that we don't 13 have in the record at this point, I think that is 14 inappropriate. And that clearly falls outside of 15 the ordinance. So, the dates up through November 16 that fit into the e-mail that she sent, we have no 17 objection to. I don't believe it's appropriate to 18 include information that is after the time she 19 objected because she couldn't possible have known 20 about it. 21 MS. KAUFFMANN: What? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: He is talking about that 23 there is a time requirement for notice prior to 24 the date of when the item is scheduled. He is 25 saying that some of the items in the objection, or 36 1 some objection items, were provided for a date 2 that fell after that 45 days. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no, after the 4 e-mail. Anything before this e-mail, I presume 5 she is telling -- 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: He is trying to say 7 that she can't provide new testimony, is what he 8 is trying to say. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I didn't say that. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: As long as it's in the 11 notice, I'm going to allow it. As long as what 12 she has testified to is in the notice, I'm going 13 to allow it. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Just making my 15 objection. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Were there any 17 other questions that you have? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: No. I haven't started. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, then now you may 20 start. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 22 Ms. Kaufmann, what is your title at your 23 organization? 24 MS. KAUFMANN: What is my job? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: What is your title? 37 1 MS. KAUFMANN: I own my own company. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no, at this -- 3 MS. KAUFMANN: I volunteer to represent 4 the neighborhood on license-related things. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you say "the 6 neighborhood," is that a particular organization? 7 MS. KAUFMANN: It's referred to as the 8 Walker's Point Association. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And at the 10 Walker's Point Association, when you say 11 "volunteer," do you have a title there, some kind 12 of working title, or what? 13 MS. KAUFMANN: I refer to myself, I 14 don't know, various things. I think it's in the 15 e-mail, license direct liaison, representative, 16 volunteer. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you say 18 "representative, liaison," those are for matters 19 that deal with tavern licenses? 20 MS. KAUFMANN: Typically. There's been 21 an occasional rooming house license. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Licenses, 23 city licenses? 24 MS. KAUFMANN: Mm mm. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you work on 38 1 these things, is this -- how do you decide which 2 licenses to come here and appear on? 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to ask you to 4 direct your questions specifically to her 5 testimony here rather than making broad, sweeping 6 background questions here. Otherwise, I will 7 deduct that time from your portion of the 8 testimony, Mr. Halbrooks. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So this is 10 the third time recently that you have been down 11 here? You've been down here for two other clubs, 12 correct? 13 Well, I don't know, if you guys want to 14 talk, I don't -- I'm sorry, I need to be able to 15 cross examine her. This is why we get e-mails and 16 concerns about people coming. I need to be able 17 to cross examine somebody who is trying to close 18 down my client's club. 19 MS. KAUFMANN: I come down here a lot. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And that -- 21 MS. KAUFMANN: On my own personal time. 22 I have a babysitter right now. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. In keeping with 24 the broad, sweeping, I'm trying to get to this 25 topic. And when you come down here, I see you 39 1 huddling with Mr. Friesler and Mr. Zarate, 2 correct? 3 MS. KAUFMANN: Who is Mr. -- who is the 4 first one? 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Perry Friesler. 6 MS. KAUFMANN: Oh, yeah, um -- 7 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct? 8 MS. KAUFMANN: What was the word, I 9 "huddle" with them? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. 11 MS. KAUFMANN: I know them, they are my 12 neighbors. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Friesler is your 14 neighbor? 15 MS. KAUFMANN: Were they my neighbors, 16 who is a friend of -- I don't know where you live, 17 Perry. Where do you live? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: And so, in your duties, 19 or however you define your responsibilities to the 20 Walker's Point Organization, normally people that 21 come down here in your position don't take sides 22 between establishments. 23 MS. KAUFMANN: I'm here as an individual 24 resident. I live at 602 South 3rd Street 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So are you going to be 40 1 down here for the police reports for Mr. Zarate 2 when his license comes up? 3 MS. KAUFMANN: Quite possibly. I don't 4 know. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Have you reviewed his 6 police reports? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to ask you to 8 redirect that question. I'm not going to find 9 validity in that pertaining to the licenses that 10 we have before us here. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Complaining about the 12 license -- 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is -- 14 MR. HALBROOKS: -- and I can't cross 15 examine her about Mr. Zarate? 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That is correct. I'm 17 not allowing you to ask that question. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: So I cannot -- 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, if you 20 don't understand that, I'm saying it in English. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand that. I 22 want to make a record. So when someone who is 23 reading this, the guy, the one single guy who 24 brings a lawyer down here, and Ms. Kaufmann, who I 25 see talking to before we get here, that I can't 41 1 make cross examination about his intent or her 2 intent, or all of the police reports -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please proceed forward 4 with your questions. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Do we have the 6 document yet? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is there a motion of the 8 Committee here to accept this? 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: So move. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 11 Zielinski is to accept the document provided by 12 Ms. Kaufmann, that is, in the far right corner, 13 has a 6/21/10, 1:21 p.m. time, with a series of 14 dates on the bottom portion of the document as 15 part of our official record in this proceeding. 16 Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing 17 none, so ordered. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Well, maybe 19 I can deal with this. Ms. Kaufmann, the dates on 20 the bottom here -- do you have your own copy of 21 that? 22 MS. KAUFMANN: Yes. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Which year are they 24 from? 25 MS. KAUFMANN: Covers the years 2009 and 42 1 2010. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. That's what I'm 3 trying to -- so which dates do you indicate cover 4 2010? I don't see any possible dates there. 5 MS. KAUFMANN: You know what, I didn't 6 write them down on here. I just neglected to do 7 that, so. I didn't bring them. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So these are 9 all dates from 2009. And you testified about the 10 parking lot, which I think is the parking lot from 11 Bradley Tech, does that sound right? Can you see 12 it on the map? 13 MS. KAUFMANN: I don't know who owns it, 14 as I testified 15 MR. HALBROOKS: You said "MPS"? 16 MS. KAUFMANN: They are the ones I 17 worked with to put a gate up so that nobody can 18 park there anymore, so I believed that was MPS. 19 So we did do that, work with MPS, to have that 20 gate shut down and stop some of this. But I don't 21 know who owns it. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Did you ever see 23 barricades at the entrance of the parking lot 24 before the gate was put in? 25 MS. KAUFMANN: I can't remember. 43 1 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Are you 2 familiar with any other parking lots in the 3 neighborhood that are used by any of Texture's 4 customers, or of customers from other 5 establishments? 6 MS. KAUFMANN: There are lots of parking 7 lots in the neighborhood. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Which ones are used by 9 these -- is it only that lot that you are 10 complaining about? 11 MS. KAUFMANN: I'm not aware of Texture 12 having other parking lots. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: But you don't think this 14 parking lot is Texture's? 15 MS. KAUFMANN: Correct. I think. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: And are you aware of any 17 other parking lots used by Texture's customers? 18 MS. KAUFMANN: I personally, I see them 19 park on the streets. I see them get to the club 20 and park on the streets. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Nothing further. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Next 23 witness, please. 24 MR. SCHROEDER: My name is James 25 Schroeder. I live at 703 South 5th. The reason 44 1 I'm here is there is loud music all of the time, 2 there's drag racing, and I see fights once in a 3 while on the corner. And most of all, the 4 literature, like this and like this, all over the 5 place. In fact, I called Alderman Witkowiak about 6 a month ago to let him know that his house by 7 Botanas was covered with a lot of literature. I 8 could have brought two bags full. And this -- do 9 you want to look at it? 10 That's about all I've got to say. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schroeder, how do 12 you know that the drag racing that you testified 13 to and the other things that you state here are 14 attributable to patrons of Texture versus other 15 clubs in the area? 16 MR. SCHROEDER: Because sometimes I hear 17 it from down on that end, you know, but I don't 18 hear it from the end where the other bar is. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Where do you reside? Or 20 where are you in proximity when you are hearing 21 these things that you attribute them to this 22 location? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm on 5th and Pierce, 24 right at the corner. I listen outside. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And are there other 45 1 facilities, other clubs, other types of venues 2 that are open at this time of night that are in 3 the vicinity of this location that you -- 4 MR. SCHROEDER: There is one club. Can 5 I mention the name? 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure you can. 7 MR. SCHROEDER: Envy. They're open from 8 Wednesday to -- Thursday to Saturday, and they are 9 closed on Sunday. Texture is open from Wednesday 10 to Sunday. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And the question I want 12 to raise again is how you can distinguish the type 13 of acts that you're talking about from this place 14 compared to others? 15 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, it's mostly down 16 on that end, and mostly -- and he's got their own 17 parking lot over there, and they park on 18 La Fuente's. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are you certain, I mean, 20 is there a way that you have seen individuals come 21 from this location and go specifically to a 22 parking lot close to you that you know that all of 23 the customers there that may be drag racing that 24 you are seeing are attributable to this place? I 25 mean, I'm not questioning that you see drag 46 1 racing, but it's very important as part of your 2 testimony for us to be able to say that you can 3 with certainty -- Ms. Kaufmann says that she has 4 seen individuals leave, has talked to individuals. 5 It's very important that -- because of even the 6 testimony that came with a previous location here 7 where a judge remanded it back because he said it 8 was questionable as to people's knowledge as to 9 which place they are coming to on a strip where 10 there is multiple licenses. That's why I raise 11 that question. It's very important for us. 12 MR. SCHROEDER: I mostly hear it at 13 night when I'm outside. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But I mean, it's fair to 15 say that you believe it's the case, but you don't 16 know for certain? 17 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. That's important 19 to know. 20 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The literature that you 22 have there, the items that you call waste, are 23 those items that have Texture's name on them? 24 MR. SCHROEDER: Oh, yes, they do. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Where did you find those 47 1 handbills, if you want to call them that, or 2 posters? 3 MR. SCHROEDER: I found this one in the 4 backyard. I found a few of these on Witkowiak's 5 property, and along National Avenue. Would you 6 like to see them? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll be happy to. Is 8 there a motion to make that -- 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: So move. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, I want to 11 make certain, if they were on the ground, because 12 he said posted -- 13 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Obviously, the postings 15 I would object to, but if he is talking about 16 litter. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are these items you 18 found on the ground? 19 MR. SCHROEDER: On the ground. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And you yourself found 21 these? 22 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I did. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. 24 Schroeder. If you just want to allow the attorney 25 here to see that. 48 1 Alderman Zielinski would move to make 2 these, looks like hand brochures or little hand 3 postcards and a larger brochure here, part of our 4 official record in this proceeding. Are there any 5 objections to that? Hearing none, so ordered. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I would ask that we be 7 provided copies of these. There are several 8 repetitive ones. I don't know if the Committee 9 feels the -- 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there questions by 11 Committee? 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: For the licensee, are 15 those promotional materials that were used for 16 your club? 17 MR. SALVO: Yes. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How do you, if I may 19 ask, how do you -- do you hand these out inside 20 the club? 21 MR. SALVO: They're in-house promotions. 22 Nothing gets distributed outside the club. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So these are not the 24 type of things that get placed on the windshields? 25 MR. SALVO: Absolutely not. I learned 49 1 that three years ago; never to do that. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm not accusing you. I 3 know that's kind of routine in the industry where 4 you oftentimes, you know, you hit sort of other 5 additional parking lots, sometimes you even see 6 them in other cities. 7 MR. SALVO: I've learned Facebook works 8 better. 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski, 11 follow-up question? 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Yeah, I have a 13 couple questions about this. I've noticed that 14 the women in these flyers are wearing bikinis and 15 provacative clothes, do you have your staff dress 16 like this? 17 MR. SALVO: No. Unless we have a 18 costume party, or something. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: You have like a 20 bikini costume party? 21 MR. SALVO: We have, yes, absolutely. 22 We have a license for it. 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 25 Committee? 50 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Witkowiak. 3 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Could I please ask 4 this witness a question? 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schroeder, can 7 you look out the front of your building and see 8 Texture? 9 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I can. 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Then what 11 Chairman Bohl was referring to before was, what 12 have you actually seen from people that have come 13 from Texture? 14 MR. SCHROEDER: I've seen a few fights. 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Things that you've 16 actually seen -- 17 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: -- with the people 19 from Texture. 20 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: How many occasions 22 have you seen fights? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: Over how long of a 24 period? 25 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Over the last year. 51 1 MR. SCHROEDER: I'd say seven or eight. 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Seven or eight 3 times, okay. Have you seen any other behavior 4 from people that have come, that you actually saw 5 walk out of Texture? 6 MR. SCHROEDER: Actually, when the bar 7 closes, sometimes it's, before they clear out, 8 it's like, I mean, for 45 minutes to an hour, and 9 they make noise, and they keep a lot of people up 10 at night. 11 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: And you have 12 personally seen this? 13 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you 15 for establishing that. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I see the poster says 19 "Ladies Night, Wet Wednesday," is that something 20 you still do? 21 MR. SALVO: A promotion, yes. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: The ladies night? 23 MR. SALVO: Yes, that particular poster 24 is a poster that was done a month ago. And does 25 it have staple marks? Because that would have 52 1 been right on top of our -- inside of our club. 2 Is there staple marks -- 3 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: It looks like it. 4 MR. SALVO: -- at the end? I don't know 5 how that ended up going -- I don't pay anyone to 6 put it out for me. Those are in-house 7 advertisements. There're not waterproof. I would 8 never put them out. The only other way is from 9 sifting through our garbage dump. 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: The reason I asked 11 about the ladies night promotion, though, it's my 12 understanding that that's not even legal. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. You cannot 14 legally charge -- I mean, it's true elsewhere, 15 it's something that is very common. You cannot 16 charge separate drink prices for individuals based 17 on gender, any more than you could for age, any 18 more than you could for race, any more than you 19 could for religion. You could not walk in and say 20 to somebody -- you walk in to Walgreens, 21 "Christians, candy bars .50; everyone else's 22 religion .75." I mean, that's in essence what 23 you're doing. You're doing it based on gender, 24 and that is not legal. I mean, that is not 25 holding you accountable, I think that most large 53 1 clubs do this in one way, shape or form, and many 2 of them do that. It's just something that people 3 aren't aware of in terms of commonality in terms 4 of what legally can be done. But we would raise 5 an objection if, ultimately, somebody said, "Just 6 because you have brown hair, you have to pay ten 7 bucks to get into the club." Meanwhile, "If you 8 have blonde hair, you get in for three bucks." 9 That's in essence what you are doing, not just 10 you, but other locations just so. I don't know if 11 you're cognizant of that. I guess somebody could 12 raise a civil rights violation and go after you 13 that way, but short of that. 14 Are there other questions that Committee 15 members have of this witness? 16 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 18 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I see that the host 19 is "Scott Knoxx," is that his actual name, of the 20 host? 21 MR. SALVO: Of the promoter. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Of the promoter, 23 Scott Knoxx. Do you know how he spells his name? 24 MR. SALVO: K-N-O-X-X. 25 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. 54 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any others for Mr. 2 Schroeder? Mr. Halbrooks. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 4 Just to wrap up quickly, the drag racing report, 5 you had not seen anybody in, going into Texture, 6 coming out of Texture, involved in drag racing? 7 MR. SCHROEDER: No, I haven't, but I've 8 heard it. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: And now, you said you 10 saw seven to eight fights? 11 MR. SCHROEDER: Correct. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Did you call the police 13 on those instances? 14 MR. SCHROEDER: No, I didn't. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Why not? 16 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't know. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: When were the fights? 18 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't got the exact 19 dates and times. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Where were the fights? 21 MR. SCHROEDER: Around Texture. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Where around Texture? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: In the front, on the 24 side, Jose's parking lot. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Who is Jose? 55 1 MR. SCHROEDER: He is the owner of La 2 Fuente. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Jose Zarate? 4 MR. SCHROEDER: Correct. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And so, 6 where is Jose's parking lot? 7 MR. SCHROEDER: Right across from our 8 building. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Can you describe that in 10 a way that -- physically describe it for the 11 Committee? 12 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, my building is 13 here, his building, restaurant, is across the 14 street, Hemingway's is here, and Texture is over 15 there. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: The trouble is that, and 17 I just want to make sure you understand, when we 18 get to court, the judge is going to be reading 19 this, and he is not going to understand any of 20 that. So what I'm talking about is, what comes 21 first going from north to south, first is Texture, 22 going from north to south? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: North, right. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: The farthest north 25 building is described as Texture? 56 1 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: And then what comes next 3 directly south? 4 MR. SCHROEDER: That would be La Fuente 5 and Hemingway's. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: When you say La Fuente, 7 you mean Hemingway's? 8 MR. SCHROEDER: No, La Fuente is on this 9 side, that's just the name of the bar, and La 10 Fuente is the restaurant on this side. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Where is the parking 12 lot, south of Texture? 13 MR. SCHROEDER: Right -- yeah, a little 14 bit south. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Why don't you -- 16 can you point to the map? I see the building in 17 yellow. 18 MR. SCHROEDER: Yeah. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Where is Mr. Zarate's 20 parking lot? 21 MR. SCHROEDER: Right on the side. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Right to the right of 23 it? 24 MR. SCHROEDER: Yeah. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: And La Fuente is across 57 1 the street, on the bottom of this? 2 MR. SCHROEDER: Right there. There is 3 also a parking lot that Jose owns right next to 4 Texture, the one parking lot. 5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Let me just point 6 here, that is La Fuente, that is the parking. Can 7 you see what I'm saying? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Gentleman, sir, please 9 if you could, we don't have you in for the record 10 here. We'll get to your testimony here. At this 11 point here, please if you could direct your 12 questions here. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have some kind of 14 pointer? I'd really like to know what he is 15 talking about. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to ask to move 17 on with the questions. If it gets remanded in 18 court, so be that. I'll ask you to move on with 19 your questions. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: So all of the parking 21 lots that you're talking about are owned by Mr. 22 Zarate? 23 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And you're 25 saying there are fights in his parking lot? 58 1 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, there are. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: And he's not doing 3 anything about it? 4 MR. SCHROEDER: He's got it on film. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: He's got, Mr. Zarate has 6 got it on film? 7 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, the fights and 8 everything. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: So you're saying that 10 Mr. Zarate has fights on his property and he is 11 not doing anything about it? 12 MR. SCHROEDER: No. I'm not; you're 13 saying that. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: What are you saying? 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: He said you're saying 16 that. You said you're saying that; he said you're 17 saying that. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: You saw fights in Mr. 19 Zarate's parking lot? 20 MR. SCHROEDER: Sometimes, yes. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And does Mr. 22 Zarate have security guards, or anybody to take 23 care of that? 24 MR. SCHROEDER: The only security guards 25 I've ever seen were right in front. 59 1 MR. HALBROOKS: From Zarate? 2 MR. SCHROEDER: No, from Texture. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: So Texture has guards 4 and Zarate does not? 5 MR. SCHROEDER: No, he's got tenants 6 that take care of the parking lot. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And do you know how late 8 they are there, by the way?. 9 MR. SCHROEDER: Pardon me? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you know how late 11 they are there? 12 MR. SCHROEDER: Who? 13 MR. HALBROOKS: The attendants. 14 MR. SCHROEDER: I think maybe until 15 12:30. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So when 17 you've seen these fights, the attendants have been 18 long gone, right? 19 MR. SCHROEDER: Well, by that time, La 20 Fuente is closed. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, the question 22 was, when you've seen these fights, there has been 23 no attendants there? 24 MR. SCHROEDER: No. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And there 60 1 are cars in the parking lot at the time when La 2 Fuente is closed, there are still cars in the lot? 3 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, there is. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And so, did 5 -- can you tell me when any of these seven to 6 eight fights occurred? 7 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't have the times 8 or dates. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Can you tell me whether 10 it was seven or eight? 11 MR. SCHROEDER: It was later at night 12 towards closing. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: No, seven or eight 14 fights, which one was it? 15 MR. SCHROEDER: I said -- it's seven. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay, seven. And in any 17 of those fights, did any security guards from 18 Texture intercede? 19 MR. SCHROEDER: I did not see any. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: So those fights go on 21 and just nobody pays any attention, only you are 22 watching? Nobody is around, the fights just go on 23 in Mr. Zarate's parking lot? 24 MR. SCHROEDER: Most of the time, yes. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Nothing further. 61 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. 2 Schroeder. Next witness, please. Just so 3 everyone is aware, I have 21 minutes 24 seconds in 4 terms of this testimony, excluding questions. 5 Please proceed. 6 MS. KAUFMANN: That's how much is left? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's how far with you 8 and Mr. Schroeder we have in terms of actual 9 testimony. Please proceed. Next witness, please. 10 MR. ZARATE: My name is Jose Zarate, 625 11 South 5th. And I'm not going to be repeating what 12 they say. I have a video of all those occurrences 13 they are talking about. And I hope this time this 14 video works. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you want to take that 16 and put it in? 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Hold on. I object, 18 there is no foundation, there is nothing -- 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, why don't 20 you establish foundation with Mr. Zarate? 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: What is about to be shown 22 on this video? 23 MR. ZARATE: This video shows fights and 24 cruising right in front of Texture, people coming 25 out and getting into fights right in front of 62 1 Texture. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: How is the video made? 3 MR. ZARATE: Sorry? 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: How is the video made? 5 MR. ZARATE: Security cameras, yes. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Were they your security 7 cameras? 8 MR. ZARATE: Yes. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are they security cameras 10 that you have installed in your restaurant, La 11 Fuente? 12 MR. ZARATE: I have installed them, yes, 13 as a result of all the disturbances in the area 14 and the stuff that is going on around the 15 neighborhood coming from Texture. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: And are these general 17 security cameras that take pictures of the whole 18 area that provide security for your club? 19 MR. ZARATE: Pardon? 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are these cameras that 21 you have installed in your club to provide 22 security? 23 MR. ZARATE: These are cameras I have 24 installed for -- yeah. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 63 1 MR. ZARATE: To provide security for the 2 whole street, yes. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: And these -- but you own 4 and operate them? 5 MR. ZARATE: Yes. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: And these cameras are 7 used as part of your business for security? 8 MR. ZARATE: Exactly. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: And they happened to pick 10 up the images that the Committee is about to see? 11 MR. ZARATE: Yes, I'm not after -- I 12 really regret being here talking against another, 13 or closing the license of another businessman. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: And about when or what 15 time period were these images taken? 16 MR. ZARATE: Anywhere from between 17 midnight and 2:00 a.m. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, I was thinking of 19 dates. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Months even. 21 MR. ZARATE: Months. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What months, last July, 23 this December, this February, present? 24 MR. ZARATE: All the way from November 25 to a couple weeks ago, or I would say a month ago. 64 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: November of what year, 2 Mr. Zarate? 3 MR. ZARATE: November of 2009. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Up until about a month 5 ago? 6 MR. ZARATE: Yes. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. That's all I have, 8 Mr. Chairman. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair, I have 10 considerable objections. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And you know what, Mr. 12 Halbrooks? 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will -- what are your 15 objections? 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. First off, 17 we're about to see a video from November until 18 just recently. It's obviously been edited, or 19 it's going to be really long. So I would have 20 liked to have seen what it is edited from, and I 21 would like to see that before the Committee sees 22 it so that I can ask questions about the video. 23 And I think Mr. Schrimpf will back me up on that. 24 Number two, I want to know whether Mr. 25 Zarate has any personal knowledge of these videos, 65 1 or whether these were taken by somebody else, or 2 that he can testify, which is the law requiring 3 foundation, that these bear a reasonable depiction 4 of the scene as he observed them, or if somebody 5 else observed them. I don't believe Mr. Zarate is 6 there at these particular hours. 7 So with regard to showing this video, 8 I'd like to see what they were extracted from. 9 I've sat through, and we have watched in other 10 instances where they've chopped six months of 11 video together into five minutes to make it look 12 horrible. I would have liked the opportunity to 13 see what it was cut from, and I think at the very 14 least that I could get to see that, and I get to 15 see what this gentleman can testify about of his 16 own volition, not something that has been reported 17 in absentia that he can't verify. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, Mr. Chairman, that 19 is precisely why I asked him if this was a system 20 that is essentially videotaping and happened to 21 pick up these images. He was using it as, 22 frankly, part of his business record, because this 23 is providing security for his particular firm. If 24 counsel wants to ask him if this was edited and 25 who did the editing and all at that, he is free to 66 1 do that on cross examination. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: I'd rather do that 3 before it's seen. But I do believe that a 4 business record is a hearsay, and I don't believe 5 a business record is, in terms of authenticating, 6 whether Mr. Zarate can authenticate this is really 7 the issue, but if I can have a chance to examine 8 it before the Committee looks at it. It's not 9 fair to -- 10 MR. ZARATE: The video is very short. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. And it's been 12 edited? 13 MR. ZARATE: Mr. Chairman, can I have my 14 lawyer answer the questions, please? 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, no, ultimately, 16 you're here to provide testimony. 17 MR. ZARATE: Okay. Very good. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're providing the 19 documentation so you can answer that. But here's 20 what I will say regarding that right now, I'm 21 going to, notwithstanding your initial objections 22 here, Mr. Halbrooks, I'm going to deny those here, 23 and we are going to see the video. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: I don't get to see the 25 rest of it? 67 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's correct. That is 2 correct. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair, can I ask a 4 quick question? 5 If he brought in still photos, and he 6 took, he had a roll of 24 photos and he only 7 brought in five, would you demand to see the other 8 19 on his roll? 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Probably, yes. 10 ALDERMAN KOVAC: That may be a 11 rhetorical question. You can answer if you want. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please, go ahead. I'll 13 move the clock over here. Go ahead, please. 14 MR. ZARATE: It's a very short video. 15 (Video being played.) 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Somebody put editing -- 17 there's words on here. Objection. I object right 18 now, Mr. Schrimpf. They have put editing on here. 19 We have had no notice of this. Now we find out it 20 has editorial comments on it. 21 MR. ZARATE: You can just press play, 22 and it will keep on going. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: As long as it counts 24 against their time. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Now, this is actually 68 1 the play speed. So I don't know -- 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Is there sound? 3 MR. HALBROOKS: This is outrageous. He 4 did not testify about any of the words. There 5 weren't questions of that. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I have a 7 question of Mr. Zarate. Is this, is the building 8 that we're seeing in the upper part of the screen, 9 Texture. 10 MR. ZARATE: It is Texture, yes. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If I may ask, Mr. 13 Zarate, can you explain to me where this camera is 14 pointing here? 15 MR. ZARATE: That is pointing east from 16 La Fuente. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Which direction is 18 Texture? 19 MR. ZARATE: Texture is on the left 20 side. But I'm sure this can run quickly. And we, 21 I have several cameras; I don't have just one. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's why I asked 23 specific to this particular scene. 24 MR. ZARATE: Yes. But Texture was the 25 only club open on that night. 69 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: On the entire block? 2 MR. ZARATE: Yes, on this night, yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that a fight that is 4 occurring on the street here? 5 MR. ZARATE: It's the same fight. It's 6 the same fight. I think the owner of the car is 7 trying to get his car back. I don't know. I 8 wouldn't be out there. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions, was there 10 additional testimony of Mr. Zarate? 11 MR. HALBROOKS: No. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee? 13 I have 12:30, 12 minutes and 30 seconds. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: 12:30 what? 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: 12 minutes and 30 16 seconds, so that everyone is aware. Questions, 17 questions by Committee? 18 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What date was that? 19 MR. ZARATE: Several days. 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But I mean, the last 21 one. 22 MR. ZARATE: The last one, it was not 23 reported to the police. The owner of the car came 24 the next day trying to look at our videos. And I 25 told him he could not look at the videos. He got 70 1 really angry, and then I called the police. And 2 that's when I reported it to the police. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So the owner, the 4 reason that I was -- you didn't see the fight 5 live, the video was drawn to your attention 6 because the owner of the car came and -- 7 MR. ZARATE: Exactly, yes, and he 8 threatened us if we didn't give the video. 9 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Do you review the video 10 every night, or only when there is -- 11 MR. ZARATE: We look at the videos all 12 of the time now. 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Are the dates that 16 were in the corner of the video accurate? 17 MR. ZARATE: Yes. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: That, Alderman Kovac, 19 that last date on there appeared to be 9/21. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I thought it was 3/21. 21 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: 9/21. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: 9/21? 23 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Yes. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 25 Committee? Mr. Halbrooks, questions? 71 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 2 Mr. Zarate, what video did you show when 3 you came and testified about Envy? 4 MR. ZARATE: I don't understand the 5 question. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Did you show a video 7 when you came for Envy? 8 MR. ZARATE: Pardon? I can't understand 9 what you're asking. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Was there a video shown 11 in the Envy hearing recently? 12 MR. ZARATE: I didn't show any video. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: There was no video of 14 the carjacking? 15 MR. ZARATE: I didn't show any video at 16 the Envy hearing. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And what I want to ask 18 you about is the letter that your attorney sent on 19 your behalf. Are you familiar with that letter? 20 MR. ZARATE: No. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: You have not -- you are 22 not familiar with Mr. Friesler's October 2, 2009, 23 letter? 24 MR. ZARATE: The letter he sent to who? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Mayor Tom Barrett. But 72 1 it looks likes it's in the first -- written to 2 Alderman Witkowiak? 3 MR. ZARATE: Yes, I'm familiar with 4 that. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: When your attorney 6 represents in this letter that's in the file for 7 this matter that you had never previously 8 complained about Texture's license, that is not 9 true, is it? 10 MR. ZARATE: Well, I didn't come here 11 and here testify against them. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: You came and testified 13 against their club when it was previously named 14 the Fly Bar, didn't you? 15 MR. ZARATE: I don't remember. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: You do not remember 17 whether you came and testified against their 18 license? 19 MR. ZARATE: I -- it's been a while. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. It says, 21 "Every morning you are faced with the daunting 22 task of having to clean broken bottles." Now, do 23 you -- 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, are you 25 -- I just want to, for the record, are you asking 73 1 to introduce that as evidence? Because 2 ultimately, you're cross examining him on 3 materials that were not even testified to here. 4 You have raised this specter in the past 5 that even items that are used as a grounds cannot 6 be utilized by this Committee unless they are 7 testified to here. You're actually addressing 8 items that is something that he didn't ask to be 9 introduced into this particular body. And so, I'm 10 going to ask you to move on to a different topic, 11 or I'm going to stop your questioning of Mr. 12 Zarate at this point. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: If the Committee doesn't 14 want to consider the letter, it's on file, that's 15 great. If the Committee -- 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You know what, it has 17 not officially been made part of this record, and 18 as such, it is not under consideration by the 19 Committee. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay, all right. If you 21 don't get this placed closed are you going to look 22 at relocating to other communities? 23 MR. ZARATE: That is an interesting 24 question. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: What? 74 1 MR. ZARATE: I never thought about it. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. And let me ask 3 you something else, do you have a place across the 4 street name Hemingway's. 5 MR. ZARATE: Yes, I do. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And what is it now? 7 MR. ZARATE: It's a nightclub. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Is it called Hemingway's 9 now? 10 MR. ZARATE: No, it's Tropical. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Tropical. And what kind 12 of club is it? 13 MR. ZARATE: It's a -- what do you mean, 14 what kind? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: What kind -- 16 MR. ZARATE: It's a nightclub. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Who does it -- who goes 18 there? What kind of -- 19 MR. ZARATE: Customers go there. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: What? 21 MR. ZARATE: Customers go there. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Customers, okay. And 23 so, is it a problem that you don't have -- do you 24 consider that current use a problem from its 25 previous use, or what? 75 1 MR. ZARATE: My -- 2 MR. HALBROOKS: You're comfortable with 3 its current use? 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, I don't 5 know how this is related now. If Mr. Zarate is on 6 the stand, you're finished with your questions 7 with him. You're done. You've wasted your 8 questions with him. Because ultimately, when Mr. 9 Zarate's license comes up, I will allow you to go 10 out there, you can personally witness and you can 11 be an objector. But right now, he is not on the 12 stand here in terms of his own particular club. 13 There is no relevance to his place. When you have 14 the ability to cross examine his testimony to this 15 location, I don't care what foundation, you can 16 have whatever judge sends this back to us, but the 17 fact of the matter is, I've been in courts with 18 you where you have been scolded by judges left and 19 right for wasting their time. You have wasted 20 this Committee's time to the nth degree over and 21 over and over again. I am tired of that, frankly, 22 and I believe that you are wasting -- I don't know 23 if you are getting paid by the minute, but the 24 fact of the matter is, you are not raising 25 questions to his testimony to what he has provided 76 1 here. And at this point, thank you, Mr. Zarate. 2 Next witness. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Can I -- 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, you may not. Next 5 witness. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I can't -- 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No you cannot. Next 8 witness. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: I can't ask him -- 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, you cannot. Next 11 witness. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: With regard to 13 relevancy -- 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I am asking you, sir, to 15 refrain from talking at this point. I have asked 16 the next witness to come forward. I will hear the 17 testimony of the next witness. You will be able 18 to cross examine the next witness. And if you are 19 going to ask relevant questions, I will allow 20 those questions and move forward. At this point, 21 you have abused this -- you have done it over and 22 over again, hearing after hearing after hearing. 23 And, frankly, I've been in court with you where 24 you have been scolded by judges on multiple 25 occasions where you have been provided limitation 77 1 of time, where you've been told that you don't ask 2 the proper questions. Frankly, let the judge 3 review the questions you've asked here, and I 4 think the judges will say the same thing because 5 I've seen them do it in their courtrooms with you, 6 Mr. Halbrooks. 7 Next witness. We'll start the clock. 8 MR. FRIESLER: My name is Perry 9 Friesler. I'm an attorney licensed to practice 10 law in the State of Wisconsin. I represent Jose 11 Zarate and his establishments. My office is 12 located at 320 East Buffalo, Suite 611, Milwaukee, 13 Wisconsin. 14 I'm here to provide the Committee with 15 information that I think is relevant to your 16 ultimate decision as to whether to grant or deny 17 the license for Texture. 18 But first I would like to -- and it only 19 amounts to two things: one is to ask the court to 20 receive a three-page listing of police incidents, 21 reports relating to Texture or officers that 22 relate to the operation of the establishment that 23 served alcohol from the period September 11, 2004, 24 running through January 4, 2009, for -- and I 25 don't know why they were not including in Sergeant 78 1 MacGillis' report, but I would ask the court, the 2 Committee to receive those. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I cannot do that, and 4 the reason is, it was not properly noticed to this 5 applicant. The fact is, if it is not properly 6 noticed to this applicant -- 7 MR. FRIESLER: That's fine. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- it would not provide 9 them adequate due process. 10 MR. FRIESLER: But the other thing that, 11 as part of my representation, I think it's 12 important to note that we acknowledge that Texture 13 has retained security. But my investigation has 14 indicated that the company that is providing that 15 security is a company called "Unified 16 International," and they provide armed security. 17 The problem with that is Unified International is 18 not a licensed agent. Therefore, they are 19 providing security with somebody who cannot be 20 providing security. And that's really all I have, 21 I wanted the Committee to know. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that it at this time? 23 MR. FRIESLER: That is. I'd be willing 24 to answer any questions the Committee has or Mr. 25 Halbrooks has. 79 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I don't -- and I just 2 want to state for the record, I'm not aware that 3 you must have license and/or bonded security. I 4 know that there are clubs that hire their own 5 individuals. 6 MR. FRIESLER: But I think if they're 7 armed, they do need a license. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If they are armed, yes. 9 MR. FRIESLER: And these are armed. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Are there 11 questions by Committee of Mr. Friesler? 12 Questions, Mr. Halbrooks? 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 14 When was the last time you saw Unified 15 on the premises, Mr. Friesler? 16 MR. FRIESLER: When I've seen Unified? 17 I've never been there when Texture is open, so I 18 have not seen them. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have any personal 20 knowledge whether Unified has ever been there? 21 MR FRIESLER: I have knowledge from 22 sources that were provided by my client. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have any personal 24 knowledge that Unified -- 25 MR. FRIELSER: No. 80 1 MR. HALBROOKS: So you don't have any 2 personal knowledge that if they were that they are 3 still there? 4 MR. FRIESLER: No. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have any 6 information to show this Committee regarding 7 whether that company is licensed or not licensed? 8 MR. FRIESLER: No. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Move to strike the 10 testimony. None of it is credible. None of it 11 bears a -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will -- 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: For the applicant, do 16 you use the company he mentioned? 17 MR. SALVO: No. Actually, I took your 18 recommendation from last year. I completely 19 changed it. We actually use Tower, I'm sorry, 20 I'll give you the exact name, Tower Security, LLC. 21 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: When did the contract 22 start with Tower? 23 MR. SALVO: Actually, a month after -- 24 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: The last hearing. 25 MR. SALVO: -- the last hearing. I 81 1 cleaned house. That was one of the things you 2 guys recommended. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Based on the additional 4 testimony, I will ask that that portion of the 5 testimony be stricken. 6 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 8 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: So does Tower carry 9 weapons? 10 MR. SALVO: Yes, they do. 11 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Are they licensed? 12 MR. SALVO: Yes, they are. 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. 14 MR. SALVO: And they are insured, 15 bonded. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any questions of Mr. 17 Friesler. Thank you. Were you finished with him? 18 Thank you. Next witness if there are others here 19 in opposition. 20 MR. CASTILLO: My name is Pedro 21 Castillo, C-A-S-T-I-L-L-O. My address is 1513 22 North Roosevelt. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm sorry. 24 MR. CASTILLO: 1513 North Roosevelt 25 Drive. 82 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Roosevelt, okay, thank 2 you, and your testimony, sir. 3 MR. CASTILLO: I own the Pedrano's 4 Mexican Restaurant Bar right across 6th and Bruce. 5 I'm sick and tired of getting up with a 6 dirty street after the closing of this 7 establishment. I've seen a lot of things and 8 problems, and all the drugs they do, all of the 9 drinking they do before going into this place. 10 And I know they go there because I am watching 11 from the balcony, by the parking lot I have. They 12 drink before they go there sometimes, they leave 13 pints of booze right in the lawn and in the street 14 by Pedrano's by the parking lot. 15 One time I see couples going into the -- 16 they were drinking in the car, and they come out 17 and smash the bottle right by the sidewalk by 18 Pedrano's, by my business. I tried to say 19 something, "What did you do that for? Why don't 20 you pick it up?" There were right outside my 21 business. 22 The parking there, that has some signs 23 for parking, make out signs "no parking," private 24 parking here. I'm come facing them, he said 25 "Don't you like it?" They give me the finger, 83 1 "But what you going to do about it?" This is 2 something that, I mean, this is something that I 3 speak in favor or against it. I'm sick and tired 4 of picking up others' -- you come and see it the 5 next day. They are leaving used condoms, bikinis, 6 woman in bikinis, boots from ladies, all kinds of 7 things. I mean, if you want me, next time I will 8 stop and take some videos. I'll have some of my 9 personal videos and record all of the evidence. 10 You can see all of the stuff they leave. The one 11 time I bet I picked up a 20-pound garbage bag of 12 20 pounds of garage. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 14 testimony, sir. Questions by Committee? 15 Mr. Castillo, how can you say that, in 16 terms of your testimony, that the problems you've 17 testified to are attributable to Texture as the 18 club and not other clubs around the area? How do 19 you know these are Texture patrons and not patrons 20 from some other place? 21 MR. CASTILLO: Because this is just 22 around the corner of Texture, 5th and Bruce, where 23 I'm facing the parking lot, this I go to the 24 balcony and I can see it from side, and they go to 25 make the line and go into the business, into the 84 1 Texture. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So are you saying from 3 the one proximity, or one side of your 4 establishment -- 5 MR. CASTILLO: Yeah, I can see the 6 sidewalk. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're seeing, what are 8 you seeing? Are you seeing people park and then 9 go into the line at Texture? 10 MR. CASTILLO: Yes, I do. There is no 11 other place they can go there. I mean, there are 12 times for my business to run, I had to close early 13 because -- 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Now, when you testified 15 to things like condoms, I mean, are you seeing 16 individuals engaged in those acts? How do you -- 17 MR. CASTILLO: Yes, I do. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You are. But then 19 you're seeing them go to Texture, or are you 20 seeing them go to -- I mean, how do you attribute 21 them specifically to this establishment versus 22 some of the others? 23 MR. CASTILLO: That's the only place 24 they go. There's no other place they can go. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: When you say "there is 85 1 no other place," is that in terms of closer 2 proximity, or -- because there are other types of 3 establishments on that street, and I just want to 4 ascertain, how do you -- are you visibly seeing 5 them go specifically to this location, at Texture, 6 not any of the other places? 7 MR. CASTILLO: Yes, because I see make 8 the line to go into Texture. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And the very things that 10 you've testified to are specific to things that 11 you've witnessed from patrons of Texture, is that 12 correct? 13 MR. CASTILLO: That is correct. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And when does this occur 15 approximately in the last year, two years ago? 16 MR. CASTILLO: Every weekend. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Every weekend, and these 18 things that you are testifying to, sir, have they 19 occurred in the last year? 20 MR. CASTILLO: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: With -- occasionally, 22 with regularity? 23 MR. CASTILLO: Every weekend, I see the 24 next day, Friday morning, Saturday morning, Sunday 25 morning, before they check it, the police check it 86 1 yeah, I know that it's every weekend is the same 2 thing. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you, 4 sir. Other questions by Committee? 5 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman, can I 6 ask the witness a question, please? 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes, go ahead. 8 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Castillo, have 9 you ever been threatened by anybody? 10 MR. CASTILLO: Yes, when I stopped to -- 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Castillo, please use 12 the microphone. 13 MR. CASTILLO: When I tried to stop them 14 to not to park in my private parking lot, yes. 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: What have they said 16 to you when you asked them not to park? 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well -- 19 MR. CASTILLO: Are you -- 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's -- now, are you -- 22 I have to know if this is going to somebody that 23 he can prove is coming from Texture here, if it's 24 personal knowledge, as opposed to just a random 25 person in the street -- 87 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- and then parking in 3 the area. 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman, Mr. 5 Castillo called me a while back and told me of 6 this evening where he approached someone who 7 parked in his parking lot that was not one of his 8 customers, and he was threatened by this person, 9 and, of course, backed off and left them alone and 10 watched, and this person walked over to Texture. 11 So that's why I was asking these questions. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll allow the question 13 to move forward. If you want to raise it to a 14 question, and he can provide that and verify that. 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: You were threatened 16 by someone? 17 MR. CASTILLO: Yes. 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: And what did that 19 person say to you? 20 MR. CASTILLO: They said, "If you don't 21 like it, what you going to do about it?" And then 22 they give me the finger, and they start right 23 inside. 24 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, did you see that 88 1 person go into any establishment in the area after 2 they parked? 3 MR. CASTILLO: They went right straight 4 into the club, Texture, right by the corner of the 5 club by the city park, right across from Texture, 6 right there. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Other 8 questions by Committee? Questions? 9 MR. HALBROOKS: When you say "there is 10 no place else they can go," I don't understand 11 what you mean by that. 12 MR. CASTILLO: I see them go into 13 Texture. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: You saw them actually 15 enter? 16 MR. CASTILLO: Because La Fuente is 17 closed at that time. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: How do you know they are 19 not going to this Tropical place? 20 MR. CASTILLO: Because I see them making 21 a line to go to into the side door to go in. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: You saw them making a 23 line into what? 24 MR. CASTILLO: To go into Texture. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So you saw them go into 89 1 Texture? 2 MR. CASTILLO: Yes, making the line to 3 go into Texture. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: And you're certain 5 you're not -- 6 MR. CASTILLO: When you come to Texture, 7 you come to that place, you can't just go in. You 8 come to the sidewalk, you have to wait in line to 9 get in, a long line, not five or ten; 20 or 30. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Nothing further. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Castillo. 12 Any other witnesses here in objection to the 13 license? I have 7:11 time, go ahead. 14 MS. BRUNETTO: Thank you. Rosemary 15 Brunetto, B-R-U-N-E-T-T-O, address is 4926 North 16 Shoreland Avenue, Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin. 17 I'm here to speak basically in 18 objectification of what happened out in this 19 neighborhood. I've been going to that area, La 20 Fuente, Texture, the whole thing, since the 1970s. 21 I have seen a lot of things change. Also, with 22 the Latin gang, we had the Latin Kings there for 23 the longest time, and then we have various 24 different gangs. Things have changed there, and 25 it became very, very, it's very good. However, in 90 1 the last four to five years, for as long as, I 2 understand, Texture has been open, we started 3 noticing -- 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. I don't know 5 what this -- when she says "I understand," I'm 6 objecting to the hearsay nature of testimony. If 7 she can testify to what is personal, that's fine. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah, ma'am, if you 9 could be specific to the nature of -- 10 MS. BRUNETTO: The signs that are -- 11 okay, in La Fuente, the signs that are there, 12 there are many signs now that have been added to 13 the front door, also inside, which has a lot to do 14 with younger people who have been going in there. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Into which location? 16 MS. BRUNETTO: Into La Fuente. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to have to 18 strike that, because we've had the operator from 19 that location here, and if he wanted to testify to 20 things that he believed to be understood directly 21 that was his ability to do so. At this point 22 here, you're surmising in a court of law, and this 23 is a quasi judicial body, ma'am, that doesn't -- 24 MS. BRUNETTO: Then I have one more. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 91 1 MS. BRUNETTO: Yes, and then regards to 2 what the gentleman here said about having dropped 3 things on cars, we were just there the last two -- 4 in the last two months, I've been there three 5 times, around 8:30, 9:00 at night, and when the 6 gentleman here, the attorney here, was going 7 through those, they had put -- each time when we 8 were there, we came out, and sure enough, they had 9 been put on our car. So, I mean, I don't know who 10 did it because I did not see it. We were in the 11 La Fuente parking lot. All I did was took it out, 12 took a look at it, folded it and just threw it out 13 when we got home. But there were three of them 14 and this has been since May, beginning of May. So 15 that's -- I'll stop at that. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You were in La Fuente's 17 parking -- 18 MS. BRUNETTO: Parking lot. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is it the one that is 20 immediately to the south of Texture? 21 MS. BRUNETTO: It is the one -- yes, 22 south, exactly. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Across the street from 24 La Fuente's? 25 MS. BRUNETTO: Well, there are two of 92 1 them there. And I remember there is one right 2 next to Texture, we were in the second one, that 3 one right next to it. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But they're back to 5 back? 6 MS. BRUNETTO: Yeah, they are, exactly, 7 yes. Is wasn't the one with the little hut, 8 house; there is a parking attendant in there. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Now, it was left in the 10 windshield of your vehicle? 11 MS. BRUNETTO: One was, let's see, one 12 was in the windshield, and two of them were put on 13 the driver's side just stuck in the window. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Driver's side window? 15 MS. BRUNETTO: Correct. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: May I ask, now, did you 17 peruse these to determine what this is? 18 MS. BRUNETTO: Yeah, I just, yeah, when 19 I looked at it, yes, I did. When I saw them, 20 that's why I laughed when I saw them because when 21 he said that. I had -- that was the same thing I 22 had seen, several of the different ones. It 23 wasn't the same one each time. It was something 24 different, and it was from Texture. And I didn't 25 bring them with me. 93 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ma'am, is your testimony 2 that each of three occasions that these little 3 handbills, if you want to call them, that they 4 were all from Texture? 5 MS. BRUNETTO: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: They weren't from any of 7 the other establishments? 8 MS. BRUNETTO: No, they were not. No, 9 they were not. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 11 testimony. 12 MS. BRUNETTO: You're welcome. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee? 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS. For the applicant, 17 who do you use for promotions? 18 MR. SALVO: I do my own inhouse 19 promotions. I am the marketing director of all of 20 my establishments. 21 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: So you don't have, 22 like, people who pass out flyers, I know you said 23 they are only inside, but even inside, you're the 24 only person? 25 MR. SALVO: I haven't distributed flyers 94 1 in over three years, since Facebook became huge. 2 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Even inside? 3 MR. SALVO: Not even inside. We have 4 inhouse promotions. We have -- I wish I would 5 have brought them. I have posters that I put 6 inside the club, which you have seen one tonight, 7 and literally, that is like a month old, that 8 poster. 9 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: We saw the flyers -- 10 MR. SALVO: And the flyers, we staple 11 them together. We make little, basically, stands. 12 ALDERMAN COGGS: So those are inside? 13 MR. SALVO: Inside promotions, yes. And 14 just to go back to what she mentioned about, it's 15 -- you cannot, when I used to flyer, and I did, 16 back in the day, I would never go on private 17 property. So I would never go on Mr. Zarate's 18 property and flyer people's cars. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Can I, I'm sorry, can I 20 just ask, you are not the agent here, can you just 21 identify yourself on the record? I don't know 22 that you have done that. 23 MR. SALVO: Donato Salvo, one of the 24 corporate officers. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your home address, 95 1 Mr. Salvo? 2 MR. SALVO: My home address is 721 East 3 Clark Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53212. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 5 Other questions by Committee at this 6 time? Mr. Halbrooks, questions that you have of 7 this witness? 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Can I just do a couple 9 things, ask him one question, and then follow up 10 on that? 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure, go ahead. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Would you ever have any 13 reason to put literature on a parking lot next to 14 your establishment? 15 MR. SALVO: Never. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: When -- you indicated 17 you were in La Fuente's parking lot, were you a 18 customer of La Fuente? 19 MS. BRUNETTO: Yes, sir. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And what were the dates? 21 MS. BRUNETTO: I'm sorry, I don't have 22 the dates nor do I have the little inserts. I 23 just looked at them, and I read them, and I 24 chuckled, and I said, "Ah, Texture." 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So you're -- 96 1 MS. BRUNETTO: But as soon as I saw them 2 in your hand, I thought, "Well, geez, if this was 3 three years ago, I wonder who uncovered these?" 4 Couldn't have been three years old, I guess. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. 6 MS. BRUNETTO: But I wasn't the only 7 car; they were several other cars still in there. 8 They all had it. Everyone else had it. We just 9 chuckled about it. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand, but I do 11 want to know, you didn't see anybody putting them 12 out? 13 MS. BRUNETTO: No, no. I did not say 14 that either. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: And the ones that we 16 have here, you're not certain they were exactly 17 the same ones? 18 MS. BRUNETTO: They look from the 19 pictures, I did not have a -- yes, if you give me 20 one, if you gave me a bunch of them, I could look, 21 I could pick it out, but, no, I did not take them 22 and bring them home. I threw them out. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 24 MS. BRUNETTO: Just chuckled. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Nothing further. 97 1 MS. BRUNETTO: Just chuckled. Thank 2 you. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 4 testimony. Is there anyone else who is here in 5 opposition? Sir, have you testified yet? 6 MR. JANKOVICH: No. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. I'm going to let 8 you know that we have three minutes and 39 9 seconds, and that's going to include a wrap-up, 10 so. 11 MR. JANKOVICH: I'll say basically the 12 same thing Rosemary said, real quick. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll need your name and 14 your address, sir. 15 MR. JANKOVICH: William Jankovich, 16 J-A-N-K-O-V-I-C-H, 4915 North Santa Monica, 17 Whitefish Bay. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, sir. 19 MR. JANKOVICH: I'm also with Rosemary, 20 of about 13 years. I just want to go along with 21 the thing that was said earlier about preserving 22 the community. This community started out, as 23 Rosemary said, you know, years ago, everything 24 else, it was kind of a tough neighborhood. I 25 still go in there and I still get a chuckle out of 98 1 it because people from Brookfield and Moorland 2 Park, and all those other places, they come in 3 there and they say, "We went down to a tough 4 neighborhood." Well, we've been going down there 5 for years, and it's been a good neighborhood. 6 It's really turned around. You've got some good 7 facilities down there, and everything else. So 8 it's just really good. 9 So the next thing I know, is that I 10 spent the last, or the whole afternoon watching 11 those tapes, and it just turned my stomach. But, 12 it's just kids, I'm not, you know, picking on 13 anyone, it's just kids fighting and stealing cars, 14 and everything else. That's all. I know you all 15 want to go home so. Any questions? 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any questions 17 by Committee? Any questions? 18 MR. JANKOVICH: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Sir, he has 20 a question. 21 MR. JANKOVICH: Oh, he does have a 22 question. I didn't -- 23 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I said I have a 24 question. You spent the afternoon watching what? 25 MR. JANKOVICH: Watching the tape. 99 1 MR. HALBROOKS: What tape? 2 MR. JANKOVICH: The tape you just saw. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: How did you get a chance 4 to view that tape before we did? 5 MR. JANKOVICH: Because I was going to 6 testify today, and I was going to show that; 7 somebody else showed it. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: How did you get the 9 tape? 10 MR. JANKOVICH: Because I did. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Gentlemen. 12 MR. JANKOVICH: Is that all right with 13 you? 14 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I didn't hear -- 15 MR. JANKOVICH: What's wrong with that? 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. I'm sorry, I need 17 -- can you just answer my questions instead of 18 asking? You said you watched the tapes all 19 afternoon, correct? 20 MR. JANKOVICH: Yes. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: The tape was a couple 22 minutes that we just watched, correct? 23 MR. JANKOVICH: I watched it over two or 24 three times. Is that all right with you? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Did you watch other 100 1 parts of the tape, or just that -- 2 MR. JANKOVICH: Just what you saw. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: And who showed it to 4 you? 5 MR. JANKOVICH: Is that important? 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I would ask that you 7 answer the question. 8 MR. JANKOVICH: All right. Jose gave it 9 to me. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Jose gave it to you? 11 Why did he give it to you? 12 MR. JANKOVICH: He lent it to me. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: For what purpose? 14 MR. JANKOVICH: Probably to show it to 15 you this afternoon. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: So you are here for more 17 than just the neighborhood, right, you're here to 18 help Mr. Zarate? 19 MR. JANKOVICH: I'm a friend. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: You're a friend of Mr. 21 Zarate? 22 MR. JANKOVICH: Yes. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: And -- 24 MR. JANKOVICH: So is Rosemary. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Rosemary. So you're 101 1 friends, and that's how you found out about the 2 hearing? 3 MR. JANKOVICH: Yeah. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 5 testimony. There are two minutes and 15 seconds 6 for Alderman Witkowiak's closing comments. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, how many 8 minutes? 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Two minutes and 15 10 seconds that he has for his closing later. I'm 11 going to reestablish and write that down, and for 12 -- we'll call the, if the individuals who are here 13 in opposition could relinquish the front row 14 seats, I'd appreciate that. We will ask for those 15 individuals who are supporters to please move 16 forward. 17 Mr. Halbrooks. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, I want to 19 make certain. So Alderman Witkowiak is going to 20 do the wrap-up after we present, and yet he is not 21 -- and it doesn't -- so the ordinance of the 22 objector goes first. I don't understand, he 23 doesn't -- how can he do a wrap-up if he is not 24 part of the presentation? Because I don't -- if I 25 can't ask him questions about what he presents, or 102 1 what he is going to talk about. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Witkowiak, did 3 you have anything other than a statement summary? 4 Do you have anything you are going to testify to 5 that you specifically have seen? 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I have some 7 personal knowledge of the events going on around 8 there. Would you like me to present it at this 9 time? 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What I would just say, 11 Alderman Witkowiak, is we have, as part of a 12 30-minute hearing, I've got to adhere to 30 13 minutes here, as much as possible on both sides, 14 fairly. If I allow you time in testimony here, 15 that will prevent here from a formal wrap-up, if 16 you will. The 30 minutes was supposed to include 17 testimony from neighbors as well as closing 18 statements. So I want to ask you from your 19 perspective here how you want to deal with the two 20 minutes and 15 seconds that you have? 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I'll take one 22 minute right now, Mr. Chairman. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 24 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Just referring to 25 one of enclosures in the packet here. Ms. 103 1 Kaufmann was referring to these parties, and it's 2 referred to as the Bradley Tech parking lot, it's 3 owned by MPS. On one particular night, actually 4 you could -- the date would be, Monday was 5 February 15th, so the Saturday before that, I sent 6 an e-mail to my legislative assistant that said, 7 "I drove past Texture about midnight then went to 8 inspect the Bradley Tech parking lot. The lot was 9 open. The gate was locked in the open position, 10 and there were several cars parked in the lot, 11 approximately 25." I also personally observed 12 some people parking there and then walking over to 13 Texture. And then I say further in the e-mail, I 14 say, "So either Tech doesn't care or Texture is 15 not policing the area to see if their customers 16 are parking there. But I care. That's what's 17 causing a lot of problems with the neighbors." 18 And then I ask my assistant, I said, "Please 19 contact Tech about keeping that gate locked when 20 not in use by the school and send a copy to the 21 license division file." I just want to verify for 22 the record that I have actually seen this, the 23 gathering of people in the Tech parking lot that 24 are related to Texture. That's all. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 104 1 Are there questions Committee members 2 have? Just so you are aware, Mr. Halbrooks, I 3 stopped the clock when he completed his testimony. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: That's fine. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're not going to get 6 them any fairer than me when it comes to running 7 hearings here. We have had this personal 8 conversation as well, so you are aware of that. 9 Questions by Committee? Do you have any 10 questions, Mr. Halbrooks, of Alderman Witkowiak 11 for the testimony he has provided? 12 MR. HALBROOKS: No, in fact, we would 13 not object to the Committee receiving that e-mail 14 that he was using. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that something that 16 you wish to submit? 17 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If we could here, we 19 will have Alderman Kovac move to accept a copy, a 20 hard copy, that's provided here from Alderman 21 Witkowiak. Alderman Kovac would move to make a 22 copy of the e-mail that was just referenced by 23 Alderman Witkowiak as part of our official record 24 in this proceeding. Are there any objections? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have more copies? 105 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hearing none, so 2 ordered. 3 If you have questions for Alderman 4 Witkowiak, go ahead. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: I just want to make 6 clear for the record that as far as the objections 7 go, they are locked in, that we are not expecting 8 anything new in terms of objections in the wrap-up 9 or any other time. 10 Now, no, we have no questions at this 11 time. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: At this point what we'll 13 do is, the same protocol with those individuals 14 who are supporters here. We would ask you to come 15 forward and provide your name. Please, if there 16 is any question of difficulty with the name, 17 spelling of the name, and your address as well as 18 your testimony. As much you can, provide specific 19 to this location, that would be appreciated. And 20 as I said, if we get to point where ultimately 21 your testimony is redundant, and we get down the 22 line, if you could express that, to at least allow 23 everyone with the ability to provide their 24 testimony, we'd appreciate it. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair, if I may, in 106 1 terms of us putting on, I would ask that we go 2 through those police reports now quickly first 3 before we have people testify. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Police reports in terms 5 of what? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, we're challenging 7 what's in the police report 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I asked you before for 9 your challenge on the police report, as far as I'm 10 concerned, that time has eclipsed. Mr. Schrimpf 11 -- I requested that earlier. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: I indicated earlier that 13 Mr. Lerner and Mr. Salvo would go through that. I 14 figured that would -- I guess, here's the 15 confusion, I figured that would go through our 16 time rather than, under the new system, rather 17 than the old system where we would just argue 18 forever. And so, we want to respond to the police 19 report. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead and respond to 21 that on your time. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I planned on it. That's 23 why I wanted -- that's why we have to do our 24 hearings differently now under this contested. 25 That's why we think it's a violation of due 107 1 process. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just so you are aware 3 here, Mr. Halbrooks, and now forward, the 4 procedure establishes for a time of 30 minutes of 5 testimony. It does not -- and it excludes 6 response to the police report. So it provides you 7 a fair response to the police report, to raise 8 questions to the police report, and then, 9 everything aside, police report, any questions -- 10 MR. HALBROOKS: I did not understand 11 that, Mr. Chair, I -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm telling you. I 13 know. That is why we codified it. That is why I 14 requested specifically that it be codified, that 15 it be put into written language and be added to 16 the city code so that there would not be questions 17 that would be raised about being utilized in 18 different means and manners every time. I believe 19 you've been before us before where you 20 specifically on previous items where I've allowed 21 you to raise questions of the police report and 22 excluded that from the time provided for by 23 residents. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I think the only 25 time I've done that was for nonrenewal that had no 108 1 police reports. So this is the first time it's 2 come up between us, so. I have -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I clearly will let 4 you know. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, and I'm going to 7 ask that we probably provide a copy so I can put 8 it in my David Halbrooks file, and have this ready 9 to go here in the backroom, but the issue, Mr. 10 Halbrooks, is, is I don't ever want a question on 11 this again. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: No, there won't be, only 13 once. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: So did the time on 17 motions count against the 30 minutes? 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, you know what, I 19 asked him if he had any questions or comments on 20 the police report then, and immediately at that 21 point, he went into motions. 22 It's not my duty, just like a judge 23 would tell you, it's not my duty to direct you. 24 Once I clearly define for you what I'm asking for, 25 you said you have objections, you said, "I've got 109 1 a motion to raise," you went into motions, and 2 then at that point, went to testimony. I mean, 3 that was my point in terms of saying, I provided 4 that opportunity, you didn't raise them, you 5 didn't address them at that time. 6 And if the Committee wants to make a 7 determination here by consent that we move 8 forward, that he had his opportunity to address 9 and chose not to do them, I'll move forward with 10 that. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Can we hear from the 12 city attorney? 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. If you 14 could, on the record, please? 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: I'm just looking up the 16 provision. What is the question? 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I asked, after the 18 police report was read into the record, I asked 19 the attorneys representing Texture, "Do you have 20 any question or comments relating to the police 21 report?" That was their opportunity, if they had 22 objections, to make objections at that time. At 23 that point, there were no specific objections 24 raised other than time allotted for a motion that 25 Mr. Halbrooks decided to make. And the question 110 1 remains whether or not, I believe, from Alderwoman 2 Coggs, whether or not the Committee would have the 3 ability to say that they did not adequately 4 address during their time they were allotted for 5 the opportunity to raise objections to the police 6 report, and if at this point, we could ask them if 7 they chose to do so as part of their testimony 8 because they were given an opportunity and instead 9 went in a different direction. If you have 10 concerns with that, or whether or not you believe 11 the Committee should allow for time at this point 12 for objections to the police report. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, Mr. Chairman, I'm 14 reading, and I invite anybody to tell me if I'm 15 wrong on this, I'm reading 90-11-2(b)(2)(g), and 16 it talks about supporters and objectors to the 17 license, but it doesn't implicate anything with 18 respect to the police report. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 21 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Are these just your 22 usual quadruple hearsay objections to the police 23 report? 24 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no, they were just 25 going to go through the responses. We would have 111 1 probably been done by now. 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But is this the usual 3 ones that you always object to on every police 4 report? 5 MR. HALBROOKS: No, this would be where 6 Mr. Salvo and Mr. Lerner go through all the -- I 7 clearly indicated that Mr. Lerner and Mr. Salvo 8 would be going through that, and I didn't hear 9 anything. And I presumed -- I thought, under the 10 new system, we had to go later. It's a complete 11 misunderstanding, and I don't -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Always, I will always, 13 as long as I'm sitting in this chair, always allow 14 for objections to the police report to not be 15 included as in terms of testimony. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. If I may, 17 when you say "codified," is that, is the 30 18 minutes and all that -- I'm unaware of where that 19 provision that the Chair -- 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: It is 90-11-2(b)(g). 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah, but it indicates 22 about -- 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Page 317. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no, what the -- 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: It doesn't say anything 112 1 about the police report. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. That's what I was 3 trying to get. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please raise your 5 objections to the police report now. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I will let you 8 know -- 9 MR. HALBROOKS: I will -- 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- counting the -- 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Let me finish. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I hold the gavel, Mr. 13 Halbrooks. I'm not trying to -- I'm really not 14 trying to be difficult here, but by holding a 15 gavel -- you've appeared before judges, when the 16 judge wants to speak, I've seen you shut your 17 trap. I've seen you quiet quickly. I don't know 18 what it is before this Committee that somehow if 19 you think that, ultimately, because we don't don 20 robes that somehow you can accord us less respect. 21 I can't wait until the judge sees this or reads 22 this transcript. Because I'll let him call every 23 single -- in fact, I'll let Mr. Schrimpf call 24 every member of this Committee and see if they 25 share that same opinion. It's absolutely 113 1 shameful, and it's occurred hearing after hearing 2 after hearing. I'm tired of asking you to please 3 ask for acknowledgement from the chair and be 4 allotted that time. And when I'm speaking or 5 other members of the Committee who have the floor, 6 I'm going to ask you to refrain from doing that. 7 I don't know, for the umpteenth time, please do 8 not waste time in this hearing by making me 9 address these issues with you over and over 10 regarding your decorum at this body. 11 I will, I am docking you five minutes' 12 time for your motion as part of your presentation. 13 I will allow you adequate time to address the 14 issue of objections on the police report; that 15 will not count to that. You insist every single 16 time on raising motions. That is part of your 17 presentation, okay. 18 You may address the issue of the police 19 report; that will not count. I will allow you to 20 raise whatever number of questions. If you start 21 to go to the point where you are not raising 22 legitimate questions, I will then ask you to move 23 forward. Please proceed. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm turning it over to 25 Mr. Lerner. I just want to place an objection to 114 1 docking the time, but -- 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That was actually part 3 of your time of presentation. The time of 4 presentation is an opening and a closing. If you 5 choose to make a motion, that is on your time, 6 sir. It is time that is allotted to the legal 7 entity, to the applicant, for opening statements, 8 testimony by witnesses and closing. So if you 9 want actually in the future, spend 20 minutes 10 making your motion, I think I'm being generous. I 11 realize that you went reasonably quick. The fact 12 is, you utilized it. I'm giving you time right 13 now that you didn't expect to have. You may go 14 ahead with raising objections. 15 MR. LERNER: Thank you.. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your objection will be 17 duly noted, but I will deny that objection. 18 Please go ahead. 19 MR. LERNER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 Mr. Salvo, I'm just going to start with 21 incident No. 9, on March 21, 2009. It states that 22 the MPD was flagged down by your security due to 23 an individual waving a gun out of a dark colored 24 SUV. What can you tell me about that? 25 MR. SALVO: Basically, that particular 115 1 night, the customer was denied entrance at the 2 front door. He became hostile. He went to his 3 car and drove in front of the Texture Nightclub 4 waving a gun. There was a police officer, which I 5 was shocked that he didn't see it, I flagged him 6 down and told him to chase that guy. And that was 7 the end of that. 8 MR. LERNER: So this is an individual 9 who tried to get into the club and he was denied 10 for one reason or another? 11 MR. SALVO: That is correct. 12 MR. LERNER: Okay. Incident No. 10 13 states that on October 31, 2009, the MPD was at 14 the establishment conducting a premise check and 15 they encountered a patron who was, they say, 16 "highly intoxicated" who became disorderly and was 17 interfering with the investigation. What can you 18 tell me about that? 19 MR. SALVO: That particular night, like 20 they do all the time, they come through to do a 21 tavern check. There was a patron inside the 22 premise that was dancing behind the officer. One 23 of our security guards went to -- one of our 24 security guards told the patron to stop or he has 25 to go, and basically was told to just leave at 116 1 that point. And he started arguing with our 2 security. The officer was right there, and he 3 just gave him a ticket. 4 MR. LERNER: Okay. And just one more 5 follow-up question. The phrase "highly 6 intoxicated" is used in this particular synopsis 7 or summary, what is the policy regarding service 8 of individuals at the establishment and when you 9 cut them off? 10 MR. SALVO: Our bartenders have to 11 notify management, and they know, off the top, if 12 somebody seems over intoxicated, they stop serving 13 them, bottom line. At that point, we offer them 14 water, sober them up, and that's that. 15 MR. LERNER: Okay. The next page, 16 Incident No. 11, on November 17, 2009, it states 17 that officers were monitoring the tavern for crowd 18 and traffic when they responded to a fight in the 19 bar's parking lot. It states that they observed 20 security struggling with a patron. Security 21 stated to officers the subject started arguing 22 with other patrons when he threatened violence. 23 Security stated they feared it would turn 24 physical, and eventually this patron was issued 25 citations for both disorderly conduct and assault 117 1 and battery. First of all, does the bar actually 2 have a parking lot? 3 MR. SALVO: We own no parking lots. 4 MR. LERNER: Do you know where this 5 fight occurred exactly? 6 MR. SALVO: No. 7 MR. LERNER: Okay. And earlier, we 8 talked about the Bradley Tech parking lot, can you 9 tell us a little bit about, because you guys have 10 no parking lots, what you had requested about the 11 Bradley Tech lot? 12 MR. SALVO: We've been trying to close 13 the Bradley Tech parking lot prior to the meeting 14 that we had with the Neighborhood Services, I 15 forgot what date that was, where apparently I was 16 intimidating people, that's what one of the 17 witnesses said, that we were pointing fingers. I 18 never spoke at that meeting, except when I was, 19 when fingers were pointed at me. But the bar does 20 not own any parking lots. I can say for a fact 21 that our customers do get charged to park in Jose 22 Zarate's parking lot after their place is closed. 23 And I thank Mr. Witkowiak for going 24 through that and getting Milwaukee Tech's parking 25 lot closed. We really try our best to make sure 118 1 that nobody parks in there because there has been 2 some times where the Bradley Tech lot, they don't 3 close the gate, so we took it upon ourselves to 4 build a barricade. Because sometimes we are not 5 able to close that, close the gate, so we took 6 upon ourselves to build a barricade, and we put it 7 in front of it. Because we know it's supposed to 8 be closed. But there are other lots in the 9 neighborhood that people charge, and basically, 10 fill up the lot -- 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Salvo, I'm sorry to 12 interrupt, right now you are providing general 13 testimony, not raising questions, objections. I 14 mean, I'm trying to do that and not dock you. I 15 mean, you can state that later. 16 MR. SALVO: Sure. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And in all fairness, I 18 mean, I want to have this kept to the objections 19 of the police report here at this point. 20 MR. LERNER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 The next incident is Item 12, it states 22 that on November 19, 2009, you contacted police 23 after discovering that a patron had attempted to 24 pass a counterfeit $100 bill. How do you feel 25 about being, having this be on your report? 119 1 MR. SALVO: Well, at the time I thought 2 I was doing a really good thing by calling the 3 Milwaukee Police Department, but now that I see it 4 on my police report, I kind of regret it. I'm 5 going to be honest, because I'm paying to fight 6 this. Because it is on my police report, just 7 putting it out there. I'm -- Alderwoman Coggs, 8 Ashanti Hamilton, I really listened to you guys 9 last year, and that was to call MPD for any 10 incident that happens, and I'm really trying. 11 MR. LERNER: Moving on to Incident 13, 12 November 23, 2009, it states that the police were 13 called when someone was flashing gang signs. What 14 can you tell me about that? 15 MR. SALVO: Real simple, that particular 16 night I'm working the front door like I normal do 17 on a lot of nights. I walked in, I seen the 18 gentleman flash a gang sign, I grabbed my security 19 and told him, "You got to go. There is no second 20 chances. You got to go." The guy goes outside 21 and starts just going crazy on us. Basically, I 22 called the police again. I can't go beyond that, 23 so. I called the police. 24 MR. LERNER: No. 14, January 11, 2010, 25 police were dispatched to 3rd and National for a 120 1 battery-while-armed complaint, and there was an 2 individual who claimed that he was struck in the 3 face with a glass causing a laceration. The 4 summary goes on to state that police continued 5 their investigation at the club and found that 6 management and security were untruthful in their 7 involvement and knowledge of the incident. What 8 can you tell me about that? 9 MR. SALVO: This is exactly what I can 10 tell you, that I don't know about the laceration 11 on their face, but I do know that I paid my 12 employees until 5:00 in the morning to sit with 13 MPD and go through videotapes, which showed 14 nothing happened. But I sat there with the 15 officer, and I wish the officer was here, because 16 I asked the officer to tell me why he felt we were 17 untruthful, that we were being untruthful that 18 day. And that's the same officer, which I'm going 19 to put it out there, that says, "Oh, you're doing 20 a good job out here," when we are clearing the 21 traffic in five minutes. That is how I feel about 22 that. 23 MR. LERNER: And Incident -- 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The last portion of that 25 testimony will be stricken. 121 1 MR. SALVO: Well -- 2 MR. LERNER: Incident -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your attorney, sitting 4 on the other side, would be demanding it. We 5 don't have that officer here. 6 MR. SALVO: That's fine, go ahead. 7 MR. LERNER: Incident No. 15 talks about 8 something that happened on February 14, 2010. 9 MR. SALVO: I agree with that. 10 MR. LERNER: Is that accurate? 11 MR. SALVO: Yeah, that is accurate. 12 That happened on the 15th. 13 MR. LERNER: And what about Incident No. 14 16, is that accurate as well? 15 MR. SALVO: Yes, that is accurate. 16 MR. LERNER: And what can you tell me, 17 Incident No. 16 references something where your 18 security -- 19 MR. SALVO: I'll explain it. What 20 happened was, boyfriend/girlfriend arguing. We 21 separated the two. They both told us they were 22 fine. We walked them both to their car. They get 23 in their car and drove away. They were fine. 24 They told us they were fine. They lived together. 25 I don't know what else I could have done. 122 1 Obviously, the police were flagged down because 2 they were right in front of Texture Nightclub, and 3 I brought that up to, I made it aware, hey, I got 4 two couples arguing. So that is that. 5 MR. LERNER: Did the summary mention 6 something about the patron being asked to put her 7 shoes back on? What's the policy regarding shoes? 8 MR. SALVO: We have a sign posted at our 9 front door that says "all shoes must remain on," 10 or you're automatically told to leave the 11 establishment. There is a sign posted at the 12 front door. 13 MR. LERNER: No. 17, February 21, 2010, 14 it states that police met a battery victim at 15 District 5. Victim stated she was at Texture when 16 her ex-boyfriend and father of her child 17 approached her and punched her in the mouth. What 18 can you tell me about that? 19 MR. SALVO: Very similar case. You have 20 a boyfriend-girlfriend situation. You try to 21 clear it up the best you can, and I guess, that's 22 what it is. A report was filed, I mean, there was 23 two people arguing. We do our best to separate 24 them, talk to them, calm them down. They left, 25 and that's what's that. 123 1 MR. LERNER: No. 18, February 28, 2010, 2 it states that there was a disorderly patron, but 3 I'm more interested in, it states that there was 4 an individual who was 20 years of age at the club, 5 was anybody underage at the club that night? 6 MR. SALVO: No, and I'm surprised -- 7 that's the first I've heard of it, once I'd seen 8 this police report. 9 MR. LERNER: Were you issued a citation? 10 MR. SALVO: I was never issued a 11 citation, but I do remember the individual that 12 caused a ruckus inside the bar where he punched 13 the wall. The officer was right there, our 14 security grabbed him, gave him right to the 15 officer, and then I found out he was 20 years old, 16 but the club was never issued a citation. 17 MR. LERNER: Is No. 19 accurate? 18 MR. SALVO: Yeah, we flagged an officer. 19 MR. LERNER: And Incident No. 20, we 20 covered earlier. That was the citation that was 21 issued for failure to post a sign for cover 22 charges. We did enter a not guilty plea, and we 23 look forward to the trial. One follow-up 24 question, Mr. Zarate earlier showed us video of an 25 alleged carjacking. Are you aware of any 124 1 involvement that any of your patrons had on that 2 particular incident? 3 MR. SALVO: No. 4 MR. LERNER: Or whatever is shown in the 5 video? 6 MR. SALVO: No. 7 MR. LERNER: Okay. Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 9 Questions by Committee? 10 MR. SALVO: Can I just -- 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 13 MR. SALVO: Go ahead, I'm sorry. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Was the impression 15 that was made about the carjacking that was shown 16 on the video that your club was the only one open? 17 The date shown on the video was 9/21/2009, are you 18 -- do you acknowledge the fact that your club was 19 the only one open? 20 MR. SALVO: We're not the only place 21 open. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: On 9/21? 23 MR. SALVO: On September 21, 2009, there 24 was technically three places open that night. And 25 I don't want to get to the record where I'm going 125 1 to blame that person or that person. There are 2 three establishments open. It's the truth. Yes, 3 we're open, and two other establishments. It's 4 the truth. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Did you have something 6 more that you wanted to add, Mr. Halbrooks? 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I think we'll go into -- 8 now we will start back into our time. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you want to start 10 with him, then so be it. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Just let him make a 12 presentation. We've got a business plan of 13 operation. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's fine. However 15 you want to do it with taking your time, go ahead. 16 MR. SALVO: Committee, I made a quick 17 synopsis -- thank you. I made a quick synopsis of 18 how we run our business. And I tried to make it 19 as small as possible. And I really took -- last 20 year I got scolded by both of you, and I totally 21 remember that, and I've learned. And I sat back, 22 and our biggest problem was security; that was our 23 biggest issue. Because we got into, we don't beat 24 people up, and all that. 25 All right. Pop Promotions, we have been 126 1 doing business as Texture Nightclub at 606 South 2 5th Street for eight years. We provide top 40 3 dance music for adults 21 years and older. We 4 promote our club using a variety of mediums 5 including text messaging, Facebook, weekly 6 newsletters, and standard radio promotions. We 7 have provided 60,000 visitors annually with 8 high-quality entertainment in a safe environment. 9 We're open Wednesday through Friday from 9:00 p.m. 10 to 2:00 a.m. 11 I'm going to jump right into security 12 equipment. We have state-of-the-art technology 13 using, it's call ID Tech, which I'm sure the 14 Committee has heard of before. It's a scanner 15 that basically identifies if an ID is faulty or if 16 it's good, and it also takes a picture of the 17 customer that is coming into the establishment. 18 It's actually, it's a very good piece of equipment 19 that every bar and nightclub should have. 20 We also carry a state-of-the-art 21 surveillance system, both interior and exterior of 22 the club. It provides 24-hour, seven-days-a-week 23 surveillance. We have been, we have provided 24 recordings to authorities within minutes of 25 requests. 127 1 Prior to admittance into Texture 2 Nightclub, all patrons are subject to patdowns and 3 a metal detector screening. One thing that we 4 have done for the last, since basically we opened, 5 going back to Fly Bar, but this is not Fly Bar; 6 Texture Nightclub, our music is toned down one 7 hour before bar time, and a half-hour before bar 8 time that the music is off. We've been doing 9 that. Our goal at Texture Nightclub is to have 10 the street cleared at bar time, and we are 11 infamous for that. We are infamous. I'd love 12 anybody to tell me we are doing a bad job because 13 we average ten minutes. That's what we average, 14 and I could bring tons of surveillance here, but I 15 didn't want to take up too much of people's time. 16 Our personnel, we have 9 to 14 17 well-trained, experienced security personnel staff 18 at all hours of operation. We average about ten 19 people a night, on busier nights, 14, and so 20 forth. Our new hires to our security team receive 21 two weeks of technical training, and before 22 shadowing the senior security personnel, for an 23 additional two weeks. Everybody got that? 24 Training covers denied admittance, to potential 25 problem customers, to defusing disruptive 128 1 situations, removing unruly individuals from the 2 premises as well as other safety measures. At bar 3 close, security escorts patrons to their vehicles 4 and assists in directing traffic to provide safety 5 and minimize disturbance to the neighborhood. Our 6 senior staff receives additional training 7 including advanced dispute resolutions provided by 8 Tower Security, LLC. It's a licensed, armed 9 security company. 10 In addition, Tower Security, LLC, 11 patrols the neighborhood during all hours of 12 operation to ensure highest level of safety for 13 our patrons and community. 14 In addition, at the end of the night 15 when all customers are gone, it's their job to not 16 -- I'm sorry, our security and staff to go out 17 onto the street and sweep up the neighborhood. 18 And that's pretty much what I have to 19 say. That was the biggest issues I think last 20 year that I got attacked on, and I really tried 21 hard to work on those. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Question. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: I didn't get the -- you 25 toned down the music when, and you stopped the 129 1 music when? 2 MR. SALVO: I'll give you an example: 3 Wednesday night -- 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Just give me the times. 5 MR. SALVO: Okay. One hour prior of bar 6 time our, our music goes to, for example, to slow 7 music with the goal to get people off that level 8 of excitement, just to calm everybody down. A 9 half-hour prior of bar time, the music is off. 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 11 MR. SALVO: And at the same time, when 12 we call last call, we call last call 45 minutes 13 prior to bar time, and shots only are served. As 14 soon as lights are on, that's it, drinks are done. 15 So it's a system that works, and we get everybody 16 out of the neighborhood as fast as we can. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 18 Committee? 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 21 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I appreciate the change 22 you made in security, and I know that you went 23 through the list with Attorney Lerner about your 24 explanation for each night, but, you know, you do 25 have a longer police report and more batteries 130 1 than last year, or incidents. And some of these 2 incidents that we saw on the video from September 3 21st aren't even in the police report. So even 4 though you have made some positive changes, the 5 proof in the pudding doesn't seem to be there. 6 How do you explain that? 7 Wait. I just mean you've made some 8 proactive changes, you've gotten a new security 9 that is now licensed, but there are more 10 incidents, it's more serious incidents, and more 11 people -- you know, last time we went back and 12 forth, did your security beat people up, were 13 people in the hospital really getting beat up in 14 your bar or somewhere else. 15 MR. SALVO: If you look at our police 16 report, sir, we flagged -- our police report is 17 because six, seven times, we flagged, we flagged 18 MPD down. We called MPD. That's what I was told 19 to do from this Committee. Whenever you think a 20 situation is going to get out of hand, before it 21 gets out of hand, call the police. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So as part of you being 23 proactive, is you've got more incidents on the 24 report for the most part? 25 MR. SALVO: Well, yeah, we're just 131 1 calling -- where last year, I would think, "I 2 really should call some, should I really call the 3 police for kicking these two people out?" Or 4 "Should I really flag down the police officer that 5 is sitting across the street from us," but I do 6 because that's what you guys told me to do. And 7 that's why our police report is a lot longer. 8 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I do, I'm glad that 11 you listened to what we said last year, and I 12 think not only for you, but for applicants in 13 general. We're able to tell the difference 14 between situations where you proactively got 15 police to help you out, and not, like the 16 counterfeit thing, and stuff like that. And I 17 think we are all wise enough to decide how much 18 weight or not to give to those types of things. 19 But as far as some of the other stuff, the fights 20 and all of that kind of stuff, one thing that we 21 do look at as a Committee is, but not for, if 22 Texture was not there, would this disorderly 23 person be in the neighborhood? If that disorderly 24 person was in your club, even if you flagged down 25 the police, is it something that attracted that 132 1 person to your club, and that is what has to 2 change. Something where, if you -- you know, 3 there are several clubs in this city that don't 4 have issues, they don't have the disorderly stuff, 5 they don't come before us every year. They don't 6 have double the amount of police contacts from the 7 year before. It's some way that you manage your 8 establishment that those people just aren't 9 welcome there, and they know not to come there. 10 And I think that's what we as a Committee try to 11 stress. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee? 13 Questions? 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, just for 15 what it's worth to the Committee, September 21st 16 was a Monday, 2009. 17 MR. SALVO: We're not open on Mondays, 18 or Tuesdays. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions, please, if 20 you have questions of any witnesses, get my 21 attention. 22 All right. Did you want to call another 23 witness here then? 24 MR. HALBROOKS: I just wanted to clarify 25 a couple things if I could finish out. 133 1 When you indicated your hours, you 2 indicated that, you talked about through Friday, 3 what are your hours for Saturday? 4 MR. SALVO: Friday and Saturday, it's 5 the same bar times. Music is off by, on Fridays 6 and Saturdays, at 1:55, music is off. Even though 7 I know the bar time is at 2:30, music is off at 8 1:55, 2:00 max, busy or slow. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Earlier, the Chair, when 10 you were going into testimony about the parking 11 lot next door to the south of your building, what 12 was your knowledge, if you could explain what 13 difficulties you're having with that parking lot. 14 MR. SALVO: This is an issue. I tried 15 to contact Jose Zarate about his parking lots to 16 close his lots, but that's not happening. I do 17 not get a response back. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: What goes on at that lot 19 that -- 20 MR. SALVO: They charge our customers 21 five bucks, depends on the weekend, $10 to park 22 there. And the thing that I hate about it is that 23 they will fill up the lot and then they will 24 leave. Your restaurant is closed. Why don't you 25 do the same thing we did with Milwaukee Tech? He 134 1 just wants -- 2 MR. HALBROOKS: And now you know that, 3 now as a result of this conversation, you now know 4 that charging for parking for a non-accessory use 5 is illegal in the City of Milwaukee. 6 MR. SALVO: I did not know that. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: So the parking lot is 8 filled up, they take money from your customers and 9 then leave, and then the attendants leave, as Mr. 10 Schroeder had testified. 11 MR. SALVO: Yeah, they take money. 12 ALDERMAN HALBROOKS: All right. Nothing 13 further. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. If you have 15 specific witnesses, I will allow you to put them 16 in order for us. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, your name first and 19 then -- 20 MR. CHAVEZ: My name is Jose Chavez, 21 C-H-A-V-E-Z, and I'm here to testify in favor 22 of -- 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I understand that, 24 sir, your address, please. 25 MR. CHAVEZ: 2310 South 4th. 135 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead, and your 2 testimony, sir. 3 MR. CHAVEZ: I came to testimony in 4 favor of Texture. I'm the landlord in that 5 building, and usually, I'm concerned about the 6 situation what happens there, so periodically, for 7 the last four or five years, I called meetings 8 with Donato and Sal about their performance and 9 about improvements. Improvements, they have done 10 to beef up security, and everything, because I'm 11 concerned. And they listen, and they, what you 12 hear from them is what I hear from them. They 13 have shown very good business practice. This 14 item, the video, cares about the situation 15 regardless of what happens here because they have 16 been proactive about so many issues. That's the 17 reason I came to testify in their favor. 18 I will say this, before Texture was 19 there, or any other club, I used to live there, 20 and the only problem, the only trouble came from 21 La Fuente and the other restaurant there. 22 And I'm going to say something, and I'm 23 a witness, the parking lot and the MPS, it was 24 used by the La Fuente customers. Not only that, 25 but employees of La Fuente used to park and direct 136 1 traffic to park, people to park in that parking 2 lot. 3 And I know because I knew this stuff, 4 they were, I was friendly with them because I used 5 to live there. So I have to say that most of the 6 customers that park there are customers of La 7 Fuente's. 8 So the other thing that I have to say, 9 and this is very important, some of the clientele 10 that comes to Texture is African American, and I 11 know that many people don't feel comfortable with 12 African Americans coming to your neighborhood. 13 That is wrong, and that is not a good reason to 14 close this bar. 15 Milwaukee is one of the most segregated 16 cities in the United States, and we should not 17 allow that. So I have to make it clear that they 18 have shown to me good business practices. The 19 face of Walker's Point is changing. More African 20 Americans are moving to the neighborhood, and it's 21 going to continue. And we have to live with that 22 and accept that. That's all I have to say. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 24 Questions by Committee? 25 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 137 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 2 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: What specifically 3 leads you to believe that there is any racial 4 elements of people subjected to the -- 5 MR. CHAVEZ: I have heard comments on 6 the street. I spend time there. 7 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any other questions by 9 Committee? 10 MR. CHAVEZ: I have to say one more 11 thing, I'm sorry. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 13 MR. CHAVEZ: I moved there, I moved from 14 there because I know that this is an entertainment 15 district. It is not residential. It's allowed by 16 the law, it's allowed by the city. If somebody 17 wants to have peace and quiet, they should move to 18 Mequon or Whitefish Bay. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I know it's getting 20 late, but you know, make that commentary if you 21 desire, try to refrain from -- 22 MR. HALBROOKS: How much time? 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I have 16:31. 24 MR. DONAHUE: My name is Peter Donahue. 25 I have a law firm at 610 South 5th Street, which 138 1 is part of the building that Texture is in. And 2 Mr. Chavez is my landlord. And I have been there 3 about ten years. When I first came, it was an 4 antique store where Texture was, and Mr. Chavez 5 did a beautiful job of rehabbing that building 6 from the broken-down old rubble it was. I then 7 had Fly Bar come in when the antique store left, 8 and then they switched to Texture. 9 I have been there these years, and my 10 secretary gets there about 7:00 in the morning, 11 and I roll in about 8:30 or 9:00, and I don't 12 know, it's hard to tell you, hard to kind of 13 express to you what you want, what I'm supposed to 14 say to you as to what you want to hear. 15 Cleanliness, I come in the morning, 16 there is no stuff there. I may have found two or 17 three of those flyer cards, some are from the new 18 place Crisp up here on Brady Street, had a couple 19 there the other day, and I know the Crisp owner, 20 so I went and complained to him about those stupid 21 things, because nobody reads them; they're just 22 stupid. But we then have -- cleanliness is there. 23 I have to say, sometimes we have vomitus on our 24 front steps, Mexican food, you know, so it's not, 25 you know, you wash it off, you get irritated, and 139 1 you just go on with what's going on. 2 But the real activity is, as Mr. Chavez 3 said, this is an entertainment district. I accept 4 that it is going to be loud. 5 I watched the video which made comments, 6 the comments were a little off the wall that were 7 written on there, but I was kind of, I'd have to 8 say, I was stunned by how many people came out of 9 that place in the middle of the night, but it was 10 fast. So I don't think it was realistic what we 11 saw, but there was one fight, and it looked like 12 the yellow shirts, who I presume were the 13 security, were trying to break it up, and that's 14 the only fight we saw. And these myriad of fights 15 that supposedly happened around there -- 16 I have to say, I'm an old man, I don't 17 go out to the clubs at 10:00, much less 2:00, but 18 I do roll by there periodically to get stuff out 19 of my office, to see what's going on because I am 20 a curious old guy, and, I have to say, it's been 21 operated in a way that I felt completely safe. I 22 know the, I met the security people, and they seem 23 to have it in order. And one of the problems I 24 see here is we are dealing with, it's not in 25 order, and that there is a certain feeling that 140 1 this is all disordered, and it's not. Every time 2 I've gone by there, it's in -- people are relaxed. 3 You know, obviously, people -- I would be glad if 4 my, if I punched a girl, somebody punched some 5 girl in front of my place that the cops would be 6 called to come and take care of the guy. I mean, 7 that's over the line. So they're calling the 8 police for the guy punching the lady in the face; 9 you better do that. That's what you do. You 10 don't -- I mean, what do we do? We all wave off, 11 well, he was just mad at her, and we put that 12 under the rug before. That needs to be taken care 13 of, and you need to call the cops for that kind of 14 stuff. And they did, like they're supposed to. 15 But I have to say I have never had any 16 cleanliness problems from them. When I call them 17 for something I want, they react. Sometimes, I 18 have to say, this building has no insulation, so 19 if somebody is in the upstairs apartment above me, 20 turns on his radio, I can hear it. And they have 21 always said to those guys, you can't be noisy 22 until after 5:00, and they have honored that to 23 the letter. And I have never had to complain 24 about somebody who lives upstairs of me making 25 noise. Then 5:01 comes by and the blare starts, 141 1 so I can't quibble with it, about that. But they 2 have been stellar tenants with me. They have 3 dealt with me in a straightforward way to take 4 care of things. They have kept things clean. 5 It's sometimes shocking how many people 6 go out at night and take their beer with them or 7 something, or their little pints, because we'll 8 find them. I walk to the M&I Bank, and one of my 9 neighborhood duties is I pick up bottles. And I 10 will go from my office to M&I bank, and I will 11 pick up on occasion six bottles, sitting in the 12 curb, sitting in the parking lot entrance. And I 13 feel like I'm a nutcase because it looks like 14 something -- a guy in a tie carrying bottles 15 around, and I throw them in the garage cans, and 16 then I will come back and forth. And it's 17 remarkable that people go out, and they, it's not 18 a thing I would do, but people go out and drink, 19 and that they take their drinks with them, and 20 then they go into a bar I guess. 21 But I don't want to go on anymore, but I 22 really plead or recommend to you that this bar be 23 allowed to keep its license. It's, I think, 24 sometimes all of these bars that get out into a 25 hip-hoppy area suddenly they get classed to them. 142 1 I don't know how much hip hop they do, but I don't 2 even know what hip-hop is. 3 But it's really one of those kind of 4 things where they are there, they are allowed by 5 law because we have a right, we as citizens have a 6 right to have entertainment be presented to us, 7 and at the same time, it has to be controlled to 8 protect the rest of us who don't go to those 9 clubs. And so, you have this kind of wishy-washy 10 or banging of interests that has to be protected. 11 Obviously, it's in an entertainment district, it 12 can't be too loud. At the same time, you can't 13 expect it to be like where I live on the east 14 side. 15 So it's something that I have to say, I 16 support their request for this. I know it's 17 sometimes a difficult choice, but I think it's 18 reasonable, and it's something that should happen. 19 Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 10:17, just 21 so you are aware. Questions by Committee? 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You pick up bottles on 25 your walk, but they could be coming from anywhere 143 1 in the entertainment district, you don't notice in 2 particular any bad litter outside this 3 establishment? 4 MR. DONAHUE: No, there is no -- I come 5 into my place, and I park on Bruce, start walking 6 around the corner, and I'll walk around on Bruce, 7 there is a little, and then there is nothing in 8 front of my place. Then I'll start walking and 9 people tuck them inside corners, go up, they are 10 up all the way to La Perla, up around the corner. 11 I wouldn't even say they come from any particular 12 place, they are people having them in their 13 pockets and then dumping them on the street. And 14 what bothers me is that people will come down, and 15 the kids, as I used to do, we'd loft those into 16 the street. They'd break in the middle of the 17 street, because that's kind of fun. I did that 18 long ago. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Witkowiak. 20 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. Just 21 a question. 22 I've heard gotten out, lots of people 23 talk about this. Do you know when and how this 24 was designated as an entertainment district, and 25 what actually is that designation? 144 1 MR. DONAHUE: No, I -- this is not a 2 legal genre that we're talking about. This is 3 just the fact that this has a large group of 4 enterprises from Botanas to this place with the 5 question mark on the other side of the street to 6 La Perla, to Envy, to Havana, to Texture, to 7 Bachata, those different places. And so, I think 8 it's, you know, obviously, I'm not -- I don't 9 think that the entertainment district, per se, are 10 something that the cities get into. They call 11 Water Street an entertainment district. I don't 12 think it's called an entertainment district in 13 some legal activity, but it's a place where there 14 are cities, citizens that want entertainment 15 places all in one place so they are easier to 16 police, they are easier for people to go to, they 17 are less bothersome to other areas of the city, so 18 that's why you have them. It's not anything that 19 I would say is -- I'm not talking in capital 20 letters, I'm talking sub, little letters. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any additional 23 questions? 24 MR. DONAHUE: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 145 1 MR. GREEN: My name is Tim Green, I live 2 at 608 South 5th Street, directly next door to 3 Texture Nightclub. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your testimony, sir. 5 MR. GREEN: Testimony is, is the parking 6 lot that was in question to the south is directly 7 beneath my dining room window. And recently, I 8 have noticed a significant decrease in 9 congregation of people in that area. My other 10 window is faced to the west, and in front of the 11 club, I can also say that I've seen a significant 12 decrease in the traffic, car show, as they call 13 it, or drag racing. 14 The point I wanted to make is is that I 15 think, you know, your job as a Committee is to 16 make sure that you are licensing responsible 17 businessowners. And I think a responsible 18 businessowner is one who makes proactive decisions 19 and makes changes and doesn't point fingers. And 20 I think that's what Mr. Salvo and the rest of his 21 employees have done. I've been a resident of the 22 area for going on three years now. 23 That's basically all I wanted to say. I 24 don't want to take up too much of the Committee's 25 time. 146 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 2 Questions by Committee? 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: So it sounds, to me, like 6 you have seen congregation of some people, you 7 have seen drag racing, but it's decreased. In 8 what time period? 9 MR. GREEN: I would say from my visible 10 experience, in the last six to eight months, I've 11 seen a significant change. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: And then one other 13 question, was the congregations of people under 14 your dining room window attributed to the patrons 15 of Texture? 16 MR. GREEN: That I can't speak on. I 17 don't know. I don't know where they came from, 18 but I do know that I see less of that now. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: Same question with 20 respect to the drag racing. 21 MR. GREEN: I couldn't tell you where 22 they come from. There are multiple businesses on 23 5th Street. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you, 147 1 sir. 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Good evening. Scott 3 Reynolds, 608 south 5th Street. Also, I live in 4 one of the apartments between Mr. Donahue's office 5 and the nightclub. I've been there going on 6 probably three years now. A couple things that I 7 can attest to that I know for a fact, Mr. Salvo 8 used to pay me to pass out flyers. We haven't 9 done any actual hard flyers, at least, in almost 10 two years. Other than the ones that are the ones 11 that are in the table tents. The ones that the 12 gentleman had in his plastic bag, the red zone 13 flyers, I actually threw those out in the dumpster 14 or the garbage cans next to the building. Those 15 are old flyers, I mean, really old. We don't even 16 run those drink specials anymore; we haven't for 17 over a year. 18 The poster that you saw, I order those 19 by the tens, enough to go around the club. So 20 there aren't enough to post up around the city. 21 So just as far as it goes with the literature that 22 you've seen. 23 Some of those things that I've actually 24 seen, I've seen fights come out of Tropical and 25 people in full drag, brutal fights, things like 148 1 that, where I've seen Texture's security run over 2 and break up fights, and things like that. 3 Unfortunately, even on a Thursday night, where I 4 would say that, you know, Texture is not the 5 busiest place on the block, there is parking all 6 of the way down the street, even around the 7 corner. It's just, it's hard to, I think, 8 pinpoint, or point one finger when you have so 9 many establishments on one block. 10 Other than that, I mean, like they said, 11 as far as the, you know, parking lots and 12 attendants, things like that, I've been there 13 going on three years. I used to pay to park in 14 Mr. Zarate's lot until one day they gave me a big 15 orange sticker on my window. The told me I wasn't 16 a customer so I couldn't park there, even though I 17 paid to park there. I think that is really about 18 it. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 20 Questions by Committee? Mr. Halbrooks, 21 Mr. Lerner, do you have additional questions that 22 you had? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Amount of time? 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I have seven minutes, 16 25 seconds. 149 1 MR. HOWARD: My name is James Howard. I 2 live at 514 West Bruce. I've been in the 3 neighborhood about seven years. I do attend 4 Texture, and it's nice. I like how they disperse 5 the crowd. Even on a Thursday, like the gentleman 6 said, there can be cars all the way down, and you 7 can go in there and there will be about ten 8 people. It seemed like the club is full of people 9 because the parking, there is nowhere to park, 10 nowhere out there, but you can go in the club and 11 there's ten people in there maybe. And on Friday 12 and Saturday nights, I'm a witness because I live 13 across the street, I like how they block traffic 14 and send the traffic north. They don't let the 15 traffic come back west. They don't let the 16 traffic towards 6th Street, send them where the 17 neighbors where the houses begin. 18 Everything back to 5th and 4th is all, 19 like they say, entertainment: clubs and bars and 20 places to eat. The building I'm in, there's no 21 other residents around there. I haven't been 22 disturbed, you know, I like how they clear 23 everything up real early. By 2:00 there's no 24 traffic. If you look out the window, you see the 25 yellow flags and the red shirts walking around out 150 1 there. You hear fast cars go, but I have fast 2 cars going all day long, I hear music all day 3 long, loud music and cars zooming up and down the 4 street all day long. Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 6 Questions by Committee first? 7 MR. SALVO: I have one question. How 8 long have you been living there? 9 MR. GREEN: Seven years. I was there 10 when it was the Fly Bar. 11 MR. SALVO: Wow. 12 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 14 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: How close to the 15 establishment do you live? 16 MR. GREEN: About 25 feet. 17 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Oh, okay. 18 MR. SALVO: I didn't know you lived 19 there. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just, Mr. Lerner, Mr. 21 Halbrooks, so you're aware, I don't mind you 22 asking questions, and I won't charge you a 23 question or two here. If you get to the point 24 where you start to delve into points where it's -- 25 MR. SALVO: Right. 151 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's where I started a 2 little bit during that one. I gave you a couple 3 of freebees, and then it kept going and going and 4 going. 5 MR. LERNER: We understand. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I mean, I want to fair 7 in terms of giving you the ability to ask a few 8 questions here and there, not to the point where 9 you can stop somebody and then just direct it all 10 through questions, and you could actually, 11 literally, go for ten minutes. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair, we're trying 13 to go through, we've got -- 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I understand. I 15 understand 16 MR. HALBROOKS: We're running out of 17 time here, and I want to save a little bit for 18 closing. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah, I'm not going to 20 dock you if you ask a question or two. I just 21 wanted you to be aware of that. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: No. They have sat here 23 all night, we are going as fast as we can, if they 24 have less than a minute, just so they can get in. 25 MR. HINES: And I'll be quick. My name 152 1 is Darrel Hines II. I own a marketing firm that 2 is located at 3770 South Pennsylvania Avenue. 3 I've provided the Web services for Donato too for 4 over the past three years. And on a more personal 5 note, we, you know, I have grown to know him as a 6 very professional businessowner. And on Friday 7 nights, my wife and I, we frequent the area quite 8 often, Botanas and La Fuente even and the 9 pizzeria. And sometimes, we'll stop by Texture. 10 And my wife is one who is very conscious of 11 security. And I always tell her, you know, if you 12 feel uncomfortable at any time, you know we can 13 leave. And not ever has she said, "Well, maybe we 14 should go, we should leave now it seems like 15 something is going to happen." So her comfort 16 level is there, and that makes me comfortable and 17 that helps me to better understand that he is 18 running a very secure and safe environment. 19 And I think that it is quite 20 unreasonable to find that, you know, whenever you 21 bring two thousand, or, I'm sorry, one or two 22 hundred or three hundred people together, there is 23 that chance that some things may just happen in 24 any establishment whether it be a restaurant or a 25 festival or a nightclub, whatever it may be. But 153 1 the way to approach that is to be proactive and do 2 what you can beforehand to minimize those 3 incidents and also to properly respond to them. 4 And I found that Mr. Salvo had done all of the 5 above. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee? 7 Next witness, please. 8 MR. MASON: Good evening. My name is 9 Phillip Mason. I'm an employee of Compac PC 10 Limited. I'm here to, in favor of Texture 11 Nightclub, and I -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Mason, do you have 13 an address? 14 MR. MASON: Yes, 231 West Wisconsin 15 Avenue. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please proceed. 17 MR. MASON: I'm here in favor of Texture 18 getting their license renewed. I know Donato as 19 being a very practiced businessowner. 20 The company I work for has helped him 21 identify what type of technology to use for 22 scanning IDs. I know it is the best technology 23 solution out there for any bar in the City of 24 Milwaukee to use to identify, you know, if an ID 25 has been tampered with and to keep a record of 154 1 what customers are coming in or out. 2 Outside of that, I'm a videographer and 3 photographer in the City of Milwaukee, and I 4 document what happens on 5th Street, 6th Street, 5 and all over the City of Milwaukee with what 6 happens on a nightly basis. And I can definitely 7 say that most of the problems are not coming from 8 Texture. Texture staff is being very proactive by 9 trying to keep the community in the area, and not 10 just their area personally, they flush them in 11 establishments down the street, whether it be 12 Tropicana or La Fuente. And a lot of the problems 13 that I've seen firsthand that come into Texture 14 have been customers of La Perla who have been 15 overserved and already intoxicated and denied 16 entry into Texture. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee? 18 Your comment about doing video documentation here, 19 the frequency you're doing that here, what -- I 20 guess, what are you personally seeing? How often 21 are you doing video documentation? 22 MR. MASON: Of the 5th Street 23 neighborhood, roughly three to four nights a week, 24 usually seven nights a week to be honest, ranging 25 from Water Street, Old World Third Street, 5th 155 1 Street, even some work in Racine of what happens 2 in the nightlife. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You personally are 4 there, or you have others that work for you? 5 MR. MASON: I'm personally there of a 6 team of approximately 8 to 12 employees. I'm the 7 one who is mostly concentrating on the video of 8 what is transpiring in Milwaukee's nightlife. I'm 9 pretty much working to put together a documentary 10 about how our city is segregated and how licensing 11 has been used to, you know, separate certain 12 communities, Walker's Point being one, Hispanic or 13 LGBT community. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, 15 again, was that La Perla was a place that you 16 believe was overserving? 17 MR. MASON: Yes. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. Thank 19 you. 20 MR. MASON: Not La Perla; La Fuente. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on, sir, for any 22 additional questions. You clarified that, but you 23 did say La Perla originally. 24 Other questions by Committee? Thank 25 you. 156 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Time? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I have 3:16. 3 I'll give you a little bit of 4 flexibility, one or two persons here, if they're 5 under a minute. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Just need time to 7 finish, that's fine. 8 MS. HOLMES: Kamisa, K-A-M-I-S-A, last 9 name, Holmes, H-O-L-M-E-S, address is N52 West 10 167420 Oaktree Trails, Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin. 11 I am a bartender and also a waitress for Texture 12 Nightclub. 13 The only thing I wanted to talk about 14 was the security and the flyers. As far as 15 security, the waitresses have a flashlight to 16 signal out any security guards. At every bar 17 there is an emergency button to push if a fight 18 were to break out. 19 And as far as the flyers are concerned, 20 I put together the flyers. The small ones that 21 you guys got a hold of, if you take three of them 22 and put them together, we stand them on the bar. 23 Donato mentioned earlier that about an hour before 24 closing time, we go around and pick up all the 25 flyers and all of the empty cups, and we put them 157 1 away at the bar. So in order for somebody to take 2 them we would notice, because every night when we 3 set up, we put those flyers back out. And the big 4 poster flyers, like Scott Reynolds mentioned 5 earlier, there is only enough to go around at the 6 bar, and myself and the owner puts those up. 7 So security, when I leave at between 8 2:15 and 2:30, they have security guards that walk 9 me out to my car. There is never any traffic, 10 there is never anything for me to be concerned 11 about. And when I'm in the club, I have a 12 security button and I have a flashlight to signal 13 any of my security guards or an owner. That's 14 pretty much all I have to say. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 16 Questions by Committee? 17 Thank you for your testimony. 18 MR. ODEN: Hi, my name is Dan Oden, and 19 my address is 2147 Burke Avenue East, North St. 20 Paul, Minnesota. And I'm here as to be a 21 compliment to the club because it's going to go 22 back as me being someone from out of state and 23 coming into that area, and everything like that. 24 That first night I visited that club was on a slow 25 night, really nice and everything. I happened to 158 1 be there yesterday, last night. Sunday -- and I'm 2 originally from Milwaukee, and everything, and I'm 3 from the east side, and I've been in the DJing 4 business for seven years myself. Sunday, they had 5 a packed house and everything like that. I was 6 amazed at how fast and how quick they were able to 7 get their patrons out of that club and off the 8 street. And also as to what I witnessed as to the 9 cleaning process, and I say that because my son is 10 one of the employees there for them for security, 11 so I'm waiting there for him while, I'm watching 12 all this transaction going on and everything. 13 And based on what I've been hearing, 14 we've had problems throughout the time, and you 15 know that there are problems all over the place, 16 he has been in compliance with trying to do the 17 best that they can to make sure that they're doing 18 it. So, you know, along with the other people, I 19 saw proactivity. And I didn't know anything about 20 all of the other stuff. But basically, as someone 21 coming from out of state, I'd go back there again. 22 It's not my house. I'm an old man, but it ain't 23 my age range, but based on what I saw as far as 24 professionalism and everything like that, it's a 25 sure thing. That's all I have to say. 159 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by Committee 2 of this witness at this point? No. 3 MR. WILLIAMS: Brandon Williams, 2217 4 South Alice Street, here in support of Mr. Salvo. 5 I've known him for about four years now. We've 6 been peers in the nightlife industry. Here in the 7 city, I've worked in the industry for about seven 8 years. You know, the important thing is when 9 you're in this type of business is customer 10 service, management and safety. And I think that 11 Mr. Salvo and his family, they provide that at 12 this place. It's just great to go to a place 13 where I have no concerns for safety. 14 You know, I can be hit by a car on the 15 way to this place or coming out, it doesn't 16 necessarily mean it was from his establishment. 17 You know, my concern is, when I go out, whether 18 it's to a restaurant, to a hotel, to wherever, is 19 safety. And there has not been one time that I 20 felt unsafe or that they had bad management in 21 this place. Customer service is always great. 22 Security is always on point. No exceptions to the 23 rules; no hats; no hats, not, "Oh, I know you, you 24 can get in with a hat." Or "I know you, you can 25 get in with tennis shoes." No is no with this 160 1 security staff, and it's a pretty impressive 2 operation. That's all I have to say. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 4 Committee? Questions on either side of the table? 5 Okay. 6 MR. SALVO: That's all. We've been long 7 enough, right? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I gave you a little 9 overtime. 10 MR. SALVO: We appreciate that. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You know what, 12 ultimately, people have waited long enough on both 13 sides. 14 MR. SALVO: We appreciate that. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The little bit of time 16 doesn't matter. Alderman Witkowiak, did you -- 17 were there any additional questions Committee 18 members have? 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 21 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I just wanted to make 22 one comment. September 21st being a Monday could 23 have been an early Monday morning from a Sunday 24 night. I just wanted to make sure that's clear, 25 the incident in the video. 161 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: That, in fact, is 2 correct. It was late Sunday night, which would be 3 early Monday morning. 4 And really stretching the issue, they 5 brought somebody in from Minnesota to point that 6 out to us. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Were there any other 8 questions by Committee? Alderman Witkowiak, do 9 you want to make a brief closing? 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: You know, we've 11 been down this road before with disruption of the 12 neighborhood because of venues that evolved into 13 things that have caused problems. I want, for the 14 record, and these guys know, I have nothing 15 personal against these guys. I've had people call 16 me up and they say, "Why are you against the guys 17 from Texture?" What you have to understand is you 18 have to understand that I represent the 19 constituents of that neighborhood. And that is 20 what I'm doing here. 21 This is, what you've seen today in the 22 testimony, in the video, personal testimony from 23 people that live there. This is by far the most 24 troublesome place in the 12th District, if not one 25 of the more troublesome places in the city. 162 1 You know, I'll have you note in the 2 people that testified in favor of the place, one 3 is the building owner, two are tenants, one of 4 which worked for Texture, perhaps still does. A 5 lot of that stuff was kind of a stretch. 6 The other thing I don't really like 7 about this is I don't like this personal stuff 8 going between the owner of La Fuente and Texture. 9 I cannot stand that, and I don't like being in the 10 middle of that because I know all of these people 11 involved very well. And I don't like the 12 Committee to get involved in all of this either. 13 If I owned a business across the street 14 from a place that caused this kind of disturbance 15 on a regular basis in the neighborhood, I'd be at 16 a public forum or meeting or whatever voicing my 17 opinion and complaining about that business also. 18 I would be doing that. And what I want you all to 19 understand is this is not a thing about 20 competition. These are, as far as two, if you 21 want to call them two different entertainment 22 venues, this is as far different as they get. So 23 it's not like they're both selling apples and one 24 guy wants to sell more apples than the other guy. 25 That's not it at all. So these complaints have a 163 1 solid basis. I've witnessed the parties in the 2 Tech parking lot. So, you know, you close the 3 Tech parking lot off and the parties go someplace 4 else nearby. 5 You've seen the disturbances that are 6 caused on the street. We cannot, cannot put the 7 people of Walker's Point through that. Again, all 8 of that progress that's been made in that 9 neighborhood, all of those years, you continue to 10 allow clubs like this to basically take over, you 11 might as well just throw that away. All of that 12 effort, all of the money that the city has 13 invested, all of the sweat equity that the good 14 people of the neighborhood put in there, you might 15 as well just flush it down the toilet, and you 16 might as well go and say, "You know what, I'm 17 sorry, we don't care. There was a monster created 18 here, and there is nothing we can do about it." 19 Well, there is something we can do about it. 20 This -- I'm going to ask the Committee 21 for nonrenewal. This is just, this is escalating. 22 Every year it's getting worse than the year 23 before. We have tried -- and you talk about the 24 things on the police report, well, they called the 25 police, and that's why there is more items on the 164 1 police report. But why were the police flagged 2 down? I mean, you're talking about some pretty 3 violent stuff, you know, a guy waving a gun, 4 people beating each other up, lacerations with 5 broken glass. This isn't -- there are clubs all 6 over the city, much larger capacity than this 7 place, that operate, some 365 days a year, that in 8 20 years don't have these kind of complaints. 9 So, you know, I don't, I don't know, 10 when you say, well, this is good management, so 11 there shouldn't be these problems. I can't agree 12 with that. Somehow in the way this place is being 13 run, it's attracting that element that is tearing 14 this neighborhood apart. I'm asking the Committee 15 to recommend nonrenewal of this license. Thank 16 you. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 We believe the license should be renewed. I think 20 there is a number of disturbing aspects to the 21 theater that's been put on here this evening. 22 As you know, we objected to the video 23 being presented, to the editing and the speed, the 24 edited comments that were put in, and to the 25 incident of the carjacking, which is not on any 165 1 report. And so, we believe that was completely 2 inappropriate to be introduced. 3 And finally, in addition to that, I want 4 to address the issue of the flyers, posters, the 5 poster. The poster, to me, as I view it, clearly 6 does have places where it was ripped out where it 7 was stapled. The presentation that I've heard, 8 and I think the Committee realizes that I haven't 9 seen any of those documents before, but given the 10 people that were here and given the presentation, 11 it certainly seems plausible to me that those 12 things were in the garbage. How they got from the 13 garbage into this room tonight, I don't know. And 14 I'm not going to make any suggestions, although I 15 have a few ideas. 16 I wanted to, I want to go over, just 17 briefly, some of the testimony from Ms. Kaufmann. 18 I'll note that her e-mail was went last November. 19 I'll note that the dates she provided the 20 Committee were all from before November. To the 21 extent that that log ended, to the extent that she 22 stopped keeping that, and the testimony we just 23 heard about problems being cleared up, it appears 24 that after there was a public meeting, after some 25 of these things were discussed, that additional 166 1 efforts were made, and that we actually, that the 2 testimony kind of lines up over what's happened 3 over the last several months. 4 I think that, again, with the Bradley 5 parking lot closed, I guarantee you that the 6 Zarate parking lot will be the next thing that 7 will be dealt with, given what I've heard here 8 tonight as practices. And I would hope that the 9 Committee would give us time to deal with that 10 because I don't think they understood the 11 illegality going on there, and that can be 12 resolved quite immediately. 13 And so, I think what we're left with is 14 a group of individuals who've been, that came 15 before this Committee, they got a suspension 16 previously, they have tried to listen to what the 17 Committee told them to do. I know, as they sit 18 here, that they regret following through on that 19 because I believe the police report would only 20 have a few items had they not followed the 21 Committee's advice. Regardless of what all of our 22 sensibilities say, and regardless of what should 23 be done, or are concerns about the incidents, 24 anybody sitting and watching this out at home that 25 has a license is going to be, and has a club that 167 1 caters to this clientele, is going to be very 2 hesitant about calling police having watched this. 3 So I would ask the Committee not only to 4 do, as we have heard previously and tonight, about 5 the Committee's ability to weigh those things, but 6 to at least make the effort to put some of that 7 weight into the record in any decision that you 8 make. 9 Obviously, if there are any findings, we 10 would like the opportunity to come back and appear 11 before the Committee and discuss those findings. 12 I believe there is time before the license is up. 13 But, you know, what you have heard are a 14 group of individuals who have done, in terms of 15 the inside of the club, the management that is 16 necessary, to the extent that they have had 17 cooperation outside and been able to accomplish 18 what they've tried to do outside. They have the 19 security guards there. The security guards 20 clearly go beyond their perimeter of the building 21 to help enforce things in the neighborhood. 22 And I just believe that given what we 23 have heard that at this time, nonrenewal is 24 inappropriate. I believe renewal is appropriate 25 of both the licenses: the Class B and the Tavern 168 1 Dance. Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. We're in 3 Committee. 4 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I just want to say 7 for the record, to this licensee and others who 8 may be watching, the notion that you do not call 9 the police is a wise choice is a tremendously bad 10 one. And the reason it is tremendously bad, for 11 as bad as you may feel about having that call or 12 that down on your record, how bad would you feel 13 if you have a murder or shootings come by without 14 the cops? And, to me, that's the price you pay 15 when you are not proactive, and if there's a need 16 to get the police services you need. So for all 17 of those licensees that may be watching that may 18 have had that notion, that to not appear in front 19 of, you must not call the police, I think it is a 20 far worse consequence that you would have to not 21 be proactive than to be proactive. Thank you. 22 MR. SALVO: That's why I listened. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We are still in 24 Committee. We'll have been here three-plus hours 25 in a quorum here. 169 1 By the way, I just want to say before we 2 get moving on, and maybe while Committee members 3 are thinking, just be very careful on your way 4 home. The National Weather Service has prepared a 5 tornado warning in Waukesha County. There is a 6 tornado watch in Milwaukee County. There is a 7 tornado spotted in Waukesha County. Driving home, 8 be careful. 9 Is there a motion? 10 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: You know, we have 13 been here all day. To keep it short, short and 14 simple. Everybody knows about the, you know, how 15 strict I am with this stuff. If this stuff would 16 have happened throughout the years in my district, 17 we wouldn't even be here today. The neighborhood 18 testimony, firsthand direct testimony, police 19 report, I think warrants nonrenewal. It's as 20 simple as that. That's my motion based on the 21 police report, firsthand neighborhood testimony. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 23 Zielinski is to recommend denial of the Class B 24 Tavern and Tavern Amusement renewal application 25 based on items contained in the police report as 170 1 well as neighborhood testimony. Is there a 2 discussion on the motion? 3 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 5 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I'm -- well, I'm not 6 going to give any commentary, but I'm going to 7 object, I think that's too much. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If there is no other 9 commentary here, I will ask for a roll call vote 10 on the motion for denial. 11 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 12 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: No. 13 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac. 14 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 15 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 17 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 18 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 19 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Aye. The motion will 21 fail on a 2-3 vote. We're still in Committee. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I'll try this one. 25 I'll try renewal of the Class B Tavern License 171 1 with a 90-day suspension, and nonrenewal of the 2 Tavern Amusement License for the same reasons. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 4 Zielinski is to recommend approval of the renewal 5 of the Class B Tavern License with the issuance of 6 a 90-day suspension and nonrenewal of the Tavern 7 Amusement Cabaret, or I should say nonrenewal or 8 denial of the Tavern Amusement Cabaret portion of 9 license based on the police report, as well as the 10 neighborhood testimony. Any discussions on that 11 motion? We'll go through a roll call vote on that 12 motion then. 13 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 14 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: No. 15 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac. 16 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 17 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that an aye or no? 20 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 21 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 23 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Aye. Motion will fail 25 on a 2-3 vote. We're still in Committee. 172 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I'm kind of in the same 4 boat that Alderman Witkowiak is on this one in 5 that there is people I have a lot of respect for 6 and handled themselves well at Committee on both 7 sides of this issue, not just the businessowners 8 on the street, but the residents, et cetera. 9 I think in some ways, you know, the 10 advice that the Committee gave from last year was 11 heeded. And it was heeded they're, I mean, one 12 thing I didn't like about it last year I think is 13 there was a lot of dispute about whether they had 14 really been beaten up in this bar or not. And I 15 actually do think there is a lot of truth in what 16 the applicant and his lawyers said in that perhaps 17 the difference between last year and this year is 18 they've owned it, and they flagged down the 19 police. So I think that says something about what 20 they're -- and I think that should be rewarded in 21 a sense. 22 On the other hand, there is also some 23 strong evidence this year that there wasn't last 24 year. I know there is objection to the videotape, 25 but the videotape combined with the neighborhood 173 1 testimony about the kind of behavior which may or 2 may not be put clear. It's clear from the 3 neighborhood testimony that loud noise and large 4 somewhat unruly crowds is routine. Now, then are 5 fights and major injuries routine? No, but it 6 happens, and it happens too frequently. And, you 7 know, it's hard to know how often other things 8 have happened that are not on the police report 9 given some of the evidence on the security camera, 10 which has clearly happened, clearly happened right 11 on that street, and isn't in the police report. 12 Apparently, according to testimony of Mr. Zarate, 13 the victim reported it to Mr. Zarate instead of 14 the police. 15 The reason I didn't vote -- so I think 16 that sort of explains why I didn't vote for 17 nonrenewal. I didn't vote for the second motion 18 because that would be the same as nonrenewal, I 19 guess, for this place. And I think there has been 20 some strong testimony from the people who tend 21 this place that it is run responsibly. And I 22 don't think this place is ready to be shut down. 23 I think that there is some sense of ownership of 24 this place's behavior, but not enough. And, yeah, 25 there is security, and as Mr. Donahue pointed out, 174 1 he noticed the security on the videotape, but they 2 weren't as effective as they should have been in 3 those. There shouldn't be that many incidents. 4 So I want to send a strong message here, 5 frankly, on both sides of this. I want to support 6 the neighbors who, I don't think saying they want 7 their peace and quiet back is the right thing 8 because I do think most of the objecting neighbors 9 here did move in the city and in an entertainment 10 district, and they don't expect to hear crickets 11 at night. But I think there is a balance there 12 between living in the city and just real unruly 13 chaos on a regular basis; loud noise. And I think 14 that needs to be heard by the bar owner. And I 15 don't, I mean, I don't know what in particular to 16 advise. I know you have made some positive steps, 17 and I don't want you to stop calling the police, 18 because frankly, I'll be frank, what's more 19 powerful is the neighbor testimony than the police 20 report. And the police report, it matters, but as 21 your attorney will tell you, we can't cross 22 examine a police report, that's why he objects to 23 them on a routine basis. 24 So frankly, I'm making my motion based 25 on the police report and based on the neighborhood 175 1 testimony, but the neighborhood testimony tends to 2 be -- I mean, unless there is a police report 3 where there is, obviously, people die, shootings, 4 those really matter. But when you start to talk 5 about incidents where it could be a 6 he said-she said situation, the neighborhood 7 testimony tends to matter more. 8 Anyway, I don't know where the Committee 9 is completely on this, but I'm going to move for 10 renewal with a 45-day suspension. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That would be suspension 12 on both of the licenses? 13 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Yes. 14 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: One moment. Let me just 16 state the motion, Alderman Zielinski. Motion by 17 Alderman Kovac is to recommend approval of the 18 renewal of the Class B Tavern and Tavern Amusement 19 Cabaret Nightclub application with the issuance of 20 a 45-day suspension on both licenses based on the 21 police report and neighborhood objections. On the 22 motion, Alderman Zielinski. 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I'm definitely not 24 going to support that. I think that is much too 25 lenient. And we can set aside, you know, direct 176 1 neighborhood testimony; one, for example, this 2 lady who has been maintaining a log for the entire 3 year for this day, who has testified, based on 4 firsthand knowledge, that there has been problems 5 every week with respect to loud noises at this 6 establishment. Without even going through all of 7 the complaints that people, you know, testified 8 to, if you look at the police report, you've got 9 subject with weapon from -- and this is all just 10 in the last report in here, this isn't even 11 including all of the stuff and all of the history 12 of problems we've had of this place before. So 13 they supposedly straightened their act out, they 14 run a responsible place, you go back to the 15 beginning of the reporting period, 16 "subject-with-weapon complaint." Weapon, that's 17 pretty serious to me. Okay, so you got one weapon 18 complaint. Then you've got, the next incident 19 with the police is "highly intoxicated patron who 20 engaged in disorderly conduct." Why is this 21 patron engaged -- why is he highly intoxicated? 22 Why is he being served too much liquor? Does that 23 sound like this is a responsible establishment? 24 The next incident on the police report, next 25 incident "subject-with-gun complaint." So we've 177 1 got another situation involving a gun, a weapon. 2 The next one is "battery-while-armed complaint." 3 I'm going to tell you something, there is -- we're 4 on the verge of somebody getting shot at this 5 establishment, and it's going to be on our heads 6 over here on the Common Council. We've got a 7 complete history and track record here. Got 8 another battery complaint, you can go right on 9 down through this thing. I'm voting against that 10 motion. I'm not supporting anything less than 11 complete nonrenewal. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Again, the motion by 13 Alderman Kovac is to recommend 45 -- approval of 14 the renewal of the license with the issuance of a 15 45-day suspension. We'll do a roll call vote. 16 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 17 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 18 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 20 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs. 21 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 22 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: No. 24 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No. The motion will 178 1 fail on a 2-3 vote. We're still in Committee. 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Well, let's try -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I'll try a 30-day 5 suspension on the Class B Tavern and nonrenewal on 6 the Tavern Amusement. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 8 Zielinski, same rationale basis? 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Same. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 11 Zielinski is to recommend approval of the renewal 12 of the Class B Tavern License and the issuance of 13 a 30-day suspension and nonrenewal of the Tavern 14 Amusement Cabaret Nightclub portion based on 15 matters contained in the police report as well as 16 neighborhood objections. Go right into roll call. 17 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 18 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: No. 19 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac. 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 21 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 23 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 25 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 179 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Aye. The motion will 2 fail on a 2-3 vote. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I'll try this, for the 6 same reasons: neighborhood objections; police 7 report. I'll move for a renewal with a 45-day 8 suspension of the Class B and 90-day suspension of 9 the Dance, Amusement, I'm sorry 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman Kovac 11 is to recommend approval of the renewal of the 12 Class B Tavern with a 45-day suspension and 13 approval of the renewal of the Cabaret Amusement 14 portion of the application with a 90-day 15 suspension based on the police report as well as 16 the neighborhood objections. 17 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I'm, again, I'm 20 going to vote against that. And if it gets 21 approved, and it's by a 3-2 margin, we'll just 22 have a battle on the floor. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Call the roll call. 24 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 180 1 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac, 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 3 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs. 4 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 5 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 6 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: No. 7 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No. The motion will 9 fail on a 2-3 vote. 10 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Just keep on 11 bringing them. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I'll just state for 14 the record, like Alderman Zielinski, the rest of 15 the Committee better bring it down to Alderwoman 16 Coggs' level. Because you ain't going to get me 17 on shooting higher. So short of at least the full 18 elimination of the Cabaret Amusement License, 19 don't shoot for my vote. Okay, I'll just state 20 that for record. 21 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I may be wrong, but 23 I'm guessing that you're going lower. If you're 24 going to meet -- 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 181 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 2 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, I'll go with 3 my gut, which is -- and I'm going to say this 4 because, you know, part of the problem that I'm 5 having is this police report would not be as long 6 if the applicant hadn't taken this Committee's 7 advice and contacted the police when they were 8 having issues. Some of these are fairly minor; 9 not all of them, but some of them are. And to 10 just say a number of incidents, this, I mean, they 11 called when somebody tried to pass a fake bill, 12 they called when there was a scuffle, they called 13 when there was a couple arguing, and then a drunk 14 patron. That is every weekend. In probably every 15 establishment that's over there, there is a drunk 16 patron that comes out of that establishment. And 17 anybody that wants to make that an issue, you need 18 to check yourself on that one. And so, while I 19 really sympathize with the neighbors that are over 20 there, there were some neighbors too that came 21 down in support of it also. You have to give some 22 credence to that on both sides. 23 And I don't think that nonrenewal of 24 licenses are -- that's the only hammer that we 25 seem to use when we have incidents. It's either, 182 1 you know, we're stuck between warning letters and 2 nonrenewals. And that's not where we should be 3 with a lot of establishments, especially with 4 places that are trying to, that are making changes 5 and trying to do that. Because to jump to those 6 two different speeds all of time is not a good 7 policy. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman, I'm not trying 9 to speed you up, but the tornado warning is now in 10 Milwaukee County. 11 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I can stay here. 12 So the motion I'll make, Mr. Chair, is 13 for 25-day suspension of both licenses, and that 14 is, you know, based on the neighborhood testimony 15 and the police report. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 17 Hamilton is to recommend approval of the renewal 18 of the license with a 25-day suspension to both 19 the Class B Tavern and Tavern Amusement Cabaret 20 based on the police report and neighborhood 21 objections. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chair, one 23 final comment, and then -- 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And then hopefully, we 25 will let our votes speak for themselves here. On 183 1 the motion. Alderman Zielinski. 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: You know, if this 3 police report just had the type of stuff that was 4 just referenced, I wouldn't even be looking at 5 what we're talking about. I'd be looking at some 6 sort of suspension. But when you have repeated 7 weapon and gun complaints in here, repeated 8 batteries -- so if you're not going to call the 9 police because, you know, there is a battery 10 complaint, we're supposed to reward them for 11 calling the police when there is a battery 12 complaint? Subject-with-weapon complaint, 13 subject-with-gun complaint, battery-while-armed 14 complaint, I mean, this is serious stuff here. 15 What the hell are these guns doing in this place 16 on such a frequent basis? What the hell is going 17 on here? 18 MR. SALVO: Not customers. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please, please. 20 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Well, they are 21 outside of the establishment. 22 And that's the rationale. I'll tell you 23 right now, if they won on the Council floor, we'll 24 be back here next year, and it will be much more 25 serious. 184 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: With that, we'll call 2 roll call on approval with renewal of a 25-day 3 suspension based on the -- 25-day suspension of 4 both licenses based on the police report and 5 neighborhood objections. 6 THE CLERK: Alderman Hamilton. 7 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 8 THE CLERK: Alderman Kovac. 9 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 10 THE CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Aye. 12 THE CLERK: Alderman Zielinski. 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: No. 14 THE CLERK: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No. And the notion will 16 prevail on a 3-2 vote. Mr. Schrimpf. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: You will be getting 18 findings of facts and conclusions of law 19 recommending renewal of both licenses for the 20 25-day suspensions. If you wish to file written 21 objections to that you can do so by the close of 22 business June 30th -- 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could proceed out 24 in an orderly fashion. We still have business to 25 take care of. 185 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: -- 2010. If you submit 2 written objections, then you will have the 3 opportunity to appear before the Milwaukee Common 4 Council when it considers this matter on July 7. 5 2010, at approximately 9:00 a.m. in the Council 6 Chambers in this building.. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: What was the date? 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: For submitting written 9 objections? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: No, the Council meeting. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: The council meeting is 12 July 7th. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And can we send those to 14 my office instead of my house? I'm not sure why I 15 started getting things at my house. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: I don't know. I don't 17 send those things out. If you want it to your 18 office, make sure the Committee clerk has your 19 office address. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 22 23 24 25 186 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MILWAUKEE ) 3 4 5 I, KAREN RENEE, Court Reporter and 6 Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, do 7 hereby certify that the above hearing was recorded by 8 me on June 21, 2010, and reduced to writing under my 9 personal direction. 10 I further certify that I am not a 11 relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of 12 the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney 13 or counsel, or financially interested directly or 14 indirectly in this action. 15 In witness whereof I have hereunder set 16 my hand and affixed my seal of office at Milwaukee, 17 Wisconsin, this 3rd day of June, 2010. 18 19 ___________________________ 20 Karen Renee Court Reporter and Notary Public 21 In and for the State of Wisconsin 22 23 My Commission Expires: March 11, 2012. 24 25