00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Public Dance Hall renewal 6 application with change of agent for: 7 SEAN A. PLISS, Agent "20 Below, LLC" 8 d/b/a "Sugar" 126 East Mineral Street 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES BOHL - Chair 12 ALD. MILELE COGGS, Vice Chair ALD. ASHANTI HAMILTON 13 ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI ALD. NIK KOVAC 14 LICENSING DIVISION by RICAHRD PFAFF 15 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT PAUL MACGILLIS OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 16 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 10th day of May, 2010. 22 23 * * * * * 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: In the matter of Sean 3 Pliss before us here if - - if counsel could 4 please state their appearance, please. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Attorney David 6 Halbrooks and Attorney Mike Maistelman from 7 Maistelman & Associates appearing. Good 8 afternoon, Mr. Chair, members. And we appear on 9 behalf of the applicant, Sean Pliss, who is here. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And we'll 11 have to swear in the applicant at this time. In 12 fact, if I - - If I may see this here, if there's 13 a show of hands of individuals who are present 14 here that wish to provide testimony in this 15 matter, if I could see a show of hands of those 16 individuals who at some point here will provide 17 testimony, either in favor or opposed. Okay. If 18 those individuals who are present who wish to 19 provide testimony could raise their right hands, 20 I would swear you in at this point. So all - - 21 all individuals who are either in favor or 22 opposed to the license, if there is anyone who 23 wishes to provide any testimony, whatsoever, on 24 the matter of - - of Sugar, I need those 25 individuals in the room here with their hands up 00003 1 so we can swear them in. Swear them in, please. 2 (Whereupon those present were sworn.) 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. I'm going to 4 call a contested hearing on this matter, given 5 the - - the number of individuals who are 6 present. What - - What that is going to do is 7 that would provide an allotment of time, 8 approximately 30 minutes for each side for this 9 hearing. And that would encompass those who - - 10 individuals who make their opening statements, us 11 hearing from witnesses, and, also, a closing 12 statement. If there is questions that is 13 provided for by either members of this committee 14 or an undo amount by the attorneys, we will 15 provide an additional allotment of time to try to 16 ensure that we sufficiently get through with the 17 testimony. 18 What I will state, when all individuals 19 come forward, we will hear from those who are 20 here in objection to the license first. When we 21 do hear from you and we take witness testimony, 22 we are going to try to utilize the standing 23 microphone which is - - which is right behind Mr. 24 Halbrooks here, to my right. If you are 25 physically unable to use that, please let me 00004 1 know, and you may take a vacant seat present at 2 the table. 3 When we do bring those individuals 4 forward, when we hear from either the objectors 5 or the supporters, what I'm going to do is I'm 6 going to ask individuals in the front row to 7 relinquish these seats that are immediately 8 behind the gentlemen at the front table here. We 9 will utilize that first for the objectors to the 10 license, and we'll ask objectors to line up one, 11 two, three, four, five in those seats so that we 12 can proceed in an orderly fashion. 13 When it is your turn to come forward, I 14 will ask you to take the mi - - standing 15 microphone, and when you take the standing 16 microphone, immediately what I will ask you to do 17 is provide your name and your address for the 18 record. We will need both from you. If in 19 providing your name, your name is anything longer 20 than Joe Jones and you think that there's any 21 question about the spelling of your name, we 22 would ask that you immediately spell it. So if 23 you were to say, Jim Bohl, I would say, B-O-H-L, 24 my address is 3213 so and so street, and then 25 immediately will provide your testimony. 00005 1 Because there's a limitation in time, 2 if we get to the point where we are a number of 3 persons into the testimony, and once you've heard 4 from three other people exactly what you want to 5 say, we would ask that you would provide your 6 name and your address, and say, I agree 7 substantially with the testimony that's already 8 been provided, to allow others who may have 9 different testimony to come forward. 10 At this point when you do provide your 11 testimony and you are completed, please remain 12 either seated or at the microphone. I will then 13 ask if there are members - - questions of members 14 of the committee, and then we will be providing 15 opponents on the opposite side here, including 16 the attorneys and/or the aldermen for the ability 17 to ask questions. Once they are completed, I 18 will then dismiss you and say, thank you. You 19 may leave. Until that time, please remain 20 standing or seated, depending on where you were 21 at, until you are dismissed. Are there any 22 questions from anyone in the audience? Okay. 23 I'll expect concurrence. 24 It is - - What we'll do here first is 25 we will - - Sir, here's - - Here's my question 00006 1 for you. This is a public hearing. We need you 2 on the record. So if you could, please. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Why is he on the 4 record? He - - He raised his hand. He's a sworn 5 witness. What's - - Why does he - - Why does he 6 get to - - Why don't they all come up here? Why 7 does he get to do this? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: He's been sworn in. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, sir. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You ask - - When you're 13 in that seat, I expect one thing out of you. 14 "Mr. Chairman." And when I'm ready to call on 15 you, then I will call on you. And only until I 16 call on you, you will not respond. Is that 17 understood, in my committee? Yes or no. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, sir. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Otherwise, I will 20 dismiss you from this hearing. Mr. Maistelman, 21 is that understood? I - - I really want to know. 22 You guys - - You are continuously interrupting my 23 hearings over and over again, committee meeting 24 after committee meeting. If you would make a 25 request for the Chair, and I acknowledge you, I 00007 1 will provide you the opportunity and you will 2 have the ability to speak. If you want to raise 3 an objection, what you will do is you ask, "Mr. 4 Chairman," and then when I turn to you and I 5 acknowledge you, then you can make your case. 6 But until then I will not tolerate disruptions of 7 this committee any longer. 8 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chairman, my question 9 is a procedural one. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes, please. 11 THE WITNESS: We have - - 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could state your 13 name, please. 14 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. My name is 15 Attorney Perry Friesler, F-R-I-E-S-L-E-R. My 16 address is 320 East Buffalo Street, Milwaukee 17 53202, Suite 611. Procedural question is we have 18 evidence of an electronic nature, videotapes and 19 things like that. How does the committee wish us 20 to present that? 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If there is an 22 individual at the time when they wish to come 23 forward that can present it, they have the 24 ability to present it. There may be objections 25 raised. 00008 1 THE WITNESS: Correct. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. That's what - - 3 all I will suggest. I will tell you, as part of 4 any allotment of time, that will - - If it is 5 determined by the committee to accept it, it will 6 be eating up a portion of that time. 7 THE WITNESS: I understand that. But 8 we don't need to provide disks for everyone or? 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I would suggest that 10 you provide a disk, and that there would be - - 11 if you do have, how many copies? 12 THE WITNESS: Right now we have one, 13 but we can make more. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. You, when you 15 come forward, present what you present, and I'll 16 allow - - If the - - If the applicant and his 17 attorneys want to raise objections, they can do 18 so at that time, and the committee will make a 19 determination at that time. Okay? Thank you. 20 And the same will apply to any hearing before my 21 - - before my committee, okay? 22 At this point I'll need the applicant 23 to provide a name and a mailing address for the 24 record, please. 25 THE APPLICANT: Sean Pliss, 1606 North 00009 1 Humboldt Avenue. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, Mr. Pliss, if one 3 of your attorneys could at least share or let you 4 borrow a microphone. Mr. Halbrooks, you probably 5 could utilize the one here by Mr. Pfaff, unless 6 he is going to be asked for it. If you could do 7 that, again, sir, please. 8 THE APPLICANT: Sean Pliss, P-L-I-S-S, 9 1606 North Humboldt Avenue, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And, Mr. 11 Pliss, do you acknowledge receiving notice of 12 today's meeting with the possibility that the 13 application could be denied due to neighborhood 14 objections that should be outlined on a notice 15 that would have been sent to you as part of the 16 - - the course and - - and for this particular 17 hearing? 18 THE APPLICANT: Yes, sir. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is a existing 20 license. We should have no police report. What 21 I'll do here is, were there any opening comments 22 that you wish to make in terms of procedurally, 23 raising questions procedurally? Otherwise, I'll 24 allow you to do that, and what we'll do is we'll 25 hear from the objectors first. 00010 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Just procedurally, the 4 - - And I don't know whether it counts as our 5 time. We did file a motion in advance several 6 days earlier than usual, just our standard 7 objections as to the form of the notice. I have 8 a hard copy, if the committee wishes it. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Could you - - Could you 10 please provide that to - - Is there a copy that 11 we - - Well, we just switched staff assistants. 12 Are there any points that you wish to - - to deal 13 with on that motion here, Mr. Halbrooks? 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Just - - Just only our 15 standard objections that the statement on the 16 notice doesn't comply with, in this case, 85-3- 17 1b2. It does not provide a statement of the 18 Common Council's intent to revoke, suspend or not 19 renew the license. It also - - It also lists a 20 number of neighborhood objections for which there 21 are - - neighborhood objections for objections to 22 disturbance of peace, illegal drug activity, 23 public drunkenness, drinking in public, 24 harassment of passersby, gambling, prostitution, 25 sale of stolen goods, theft, assaults, battery, 00011 1 graffiti, trespassing, fights, shootings, 2 loitering, disorderly patrons, curfew violations, 3 or parking problems. There are no objections in 4 the file for any of those items. So we object to 5 the inclusion of those items in the neighborhood 6 objections. 7 And we also would object, there are no 8 - - just to put it on the record and - - and get 9 the argument going, there are - - there's no 10 notice of any videos provided. So we would - - 11 we would stand on those objections, and if you'll 12 rule on them, then I think we're ready to 13 proceed. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Certainly. First off, 15 we'll have Alderman Zielinski move to accept the 16 motion and make the motion that you have part of 17 our official record in this proceeding. This 18 isn't a ruling on it. It's just accepting it, so 19 that it's part of the record. Are there any 20 objections to that? Hearing none, so ordered. 21 Mr. Schrimpf. 22 MS. SCHRIMPF: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is there, in terms of 24 your having looked this over, this is something 25 that I was able to forward to you as part of an 00012 1 e-mail that came in advance here. I - - 2 MS. SCHRIMPF: I did not get that e- 3 mail, because - - I don't know why. I have 4 checked all my e-mails for today, and I did not 5 get that one. But that aside, let me advise the 6 committee that 108-9-1 of the Code of Ordinances 7 does provide in the - - in the case, and this is 8 somewhat different than alcohol beverages where 9 this objection has been made. These gentlemen 10 have gone to court with it and got nowhere, 11 basically, in court with it. However, in this 12 case the ordinance provides that if the Chief of 13 Police and the Commissioner of Neighborhood 14 Services indicate that the applicant so meets the 15 licensing qualifications, the applicant - - the 16 application shall be referred to the Common 17 Council for approval, unless an objection has 18 been filed with the City Clerk at least 30 days 19 prior to the date on which the license expires. 20 It does not say it has to be in writing, but has 21 to be some kind of notice that there is going to 22 be an objection, and it has to be on file for 30 23 days prior to the date of the license expiring. 24 This license expires on June 30th, and basically, 25 any of the - - I have been checking the e-mails 00013 1 on this thing. Any of the e-mails would be a 2 fair basis for anything. But if it is not 3 contained in one of the e-mails, then I don't 4 think the committee can consider it. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If - - What you're - - 6 you're specifically saying is that the nature of 7 the complaint has to conform with what is in the 8 notice. 9 MS. SCHRIMPF: That's correct. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And if - - and if there 11 is not anything on record that does not comport 12 within the notice, then it is not a ground that 13 could be testified to. 14 MS. SCHRIMPF: It is not properly 15 before the committee. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 17 MR. PFAFF: Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Pfaff. 19 MR. PFAFF: In the file there are 20 several e-mails - - 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. 22 MR. PFAFF: From those e-mails there is 23 complaints that specifically - - expressly relate 24 to several of these objections. Namely, 25 disturbance of the peace, public drunkenness, and 00014 1 drinking in public, trespassing, excessive 2 littering, loitering, loud noise, and disorderly 3 patrons at times the license operation is open 4 for business, after hours, cruising, traffic and 5 parking problems, and impeding the normal flow of 6 traffic. Not each and every neigh - - a 7 neighborhood objection is supported with the 8 objection on file, but those - - those that I 9 mentioned are. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So what you're saying 11 is in terms of the neighborhood objections that 12 were written in, there is some type of 13 neighborhood complaint that was either receive or 14 forwarded to the License Division, either 15 directly to you or from Alderman Witkowiak's 16 office that would comport with each one of the 17 items that are listed in the - - the objection, 18 in the objection notice? 19 MR. PFAFF: Many are supported by e- 20 mails. This is generally a broad boilerplate 21 neighborhood objection that we put out to try to 22 encompass the things we're likely to hear 23 neighborhood objections on. In this instance, 24 many of these objections are supported by a 25 complaint on file. 00015 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And - - And 2 that's going to be a means of their objection 3 here is for us to sit here and sift through, 4 which isn't a good thing. And that's why - - I 5 mean, in terms of boilerplates, I'll give you one 6 boilerplate. I mean, I, as an alderman, also in 7 addition to being Chair here, I'm an individual 8 alderman. And there are times where I will hear 9 from a neighbor, and I will actually forward you 10 a complaint, where I will say, I want specific 11 item A and B and C and D and E and F listed in 12 the - - in the - - the objection. I mean, 13 frankly, that ought to happen, and then, you 14 know, the boilerplate is health, safety and 15 welfare of the neighborhood. And I specifically 16 request that language. And so there's no 17 question about it, I say, I've heard concerns. 18 This is what I am requesting. It is well in 19 advance. And that's probably something that 20 should be done. I mean, the question at this 21 point remains, we have a very muddy notice, and 22 unless somebody is willing to sift through a 23 number of e-mails here and determine which one of 24 these is - - is certainly, that we can address, 25 we've got some issues. 00016 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: If we may, I think that 4 if we do have the e-mails, we should go through 5 the objections. I think the neighborhood 6 objections that were on the notice. And then 7 crossing the ones out should be fairly quick. I 8 think that we can probably agree prostitution, a 9 number of them we can just take off the list, and 10 you can rule on those. It appears that then we 11 can just cite to the e-mails, that we received 12 the e-mails through public records and 13 customarily course of business, so we're aware of 14 them. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How about this? I'm 16 going to hit a seven minute recess. Somebody, 17 other than the - - a committee member, is going 18 to sift through them and find out which ones 19 apply from our bureaucratic staff. And by five 20 o'clock we're going to have that ready. How 21 about that? 22 MS. SCHRIMPF: Typically, Mr. Chairman, 23 the objector is the one that does this sort of 24 thing. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, they may - - they 00017 1 can doublecheck. I'm going to ask our staff to 2 do it, and to provide that determin - - I don't 3 - - Mr. Schrimpf, would you care to say that 4 you're going to trust Mr. Maistelman and Mr. 5 Halbrooks to tell you exactly what the City 6 should or shouldn't? 7 MS. SCHRIMPF: I would trust them 8 completely, because if they're doing something 9 wrong, I am going to find out about it and deal 10 with it. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, I'm going to 12 request - - I'm going to request that the License 13 Division provide that. I'm going to guess that 14 if they're good attorneys, which I have no doubt 15 and believe that they are, that they're going to 16 doublecheck each one of those themselves. So 17 we're going to - - We're going to do that seven 18 minutes, and we're going to be in recess so the 19 committee doesn't have to sit through this. 20 (Whereupon a recess was taken.) 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is the resumption 22 of the Common Council's Licenses Committee. Mr. 23 Pfaff, I know that you were consulting with Mr. 24 Halbrooks over the issue of the notice and 25 neighborhood objections based on items contained 00018 1 within the notice. Is there anything that is 2 agreed upon in terms of items that are available 3 here for us? 4 MR. PFAFF: We've identified specific 5 neighborhood objections, and Attorney Halbrooks 6 has those underlined and cited with the e-mail 7 that they referred to. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: The - - Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead, Mr. 10 Halbrooks. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: On neighborhood 12 objections which is number three on page two of 13 the - - Or you can just look at your notice. 14 Disturbance of the peace and drinking in public 15 are listed in e-mails. Public urination in a 16 January 31st e-mail, which also includes 17 excessive littering. There are complaints about 18 loud noise and disorderly patrons. And there is 19 a complaint about cruising, but it is limited to 20 young black individuals. So we would have no 21 objection to complaints about "young black 22 individuals" for cruising, traffic, parking 23 problems and the normal flow of traffic. All the 24 rest we would ask to be stricken, and I believe 25 that's by stipulation. 00019 1 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 2 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, it's not 3 by stipulation. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, it's - - it's not, 5 okay. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry. But - - 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What we'll do is we 8 will have a general cruising as opposed to any 9 - - Because I don't want to hear that the person 10 who was seen making - - publicly urinating was 11 wearing green jeans, and, therefore, only an 12 individual wearing green jeans it the only person 13 that we can discuss relating to public urination. 14 So those items that are cited, and, Mr. Pfaff, is 15 that largely agreed upon then here? 16 MR. PFAFF: The cruising actually 17 appears in another e-mail on February 28th. 18 which does contribute to - - 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We're going to - - 20 We'll allow for - - for general cruising, as 21 opposed to having any specific racial or gender 22 base to that. 23 MR. PFAFF: There's also references to 24 being on private property, but we don't know if 25 that rose to the level of trespassing. 00020 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And that - - That would 2 only be so if it is sufficiently posted, and 3 that's kind of vague here. So we'll - - Probably 4 it's better not to - - to post that. Alderwoman 5 Coggs, did you have anything? 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No, my concern is 7 addressed. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. With that, 9 Mr. Schrimpf, any other comments relating to the 10 motion? 11 MS. SCHRIMPF: No. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 13 MS. SCHRIMPF: I haven't read it. I 14 did not receive it. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: While you were, I 16 think, looking back here, it was - - He was 17 reading the context of the three points. Rather 18 than re-enumerate here, them, I am going to at 19 this point here make a ruling of the Chair that 20 would deny the three points of the motion that 21 are made, although they are accepted into the 22 record, and we'll go on that point from now 23 forward. 24 At this point here what I'm going to do 25 is I'm going to hear from individuals who are 00021 1 here in objection to the license. I would ask 2 that, sir - - Sir, with the New York Yankee's 3 hat, are you here in objection to the license? 4 Okay, if you could please relinquish the seat in 5 the front row? Anyone here in objection to the 6 license, I would ask that you take a front row 7 seat here. We are going to hear - - There has 8 been an officer that you have had subpoenaed. 9 We're going to hear from that individual first, 10 out of courtesy to her. She has to work third 11 shift. You requested a subpoena. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct, yeah. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That officer actually 14 has to work third shift. She's had two hours of 15 sleep here, and I provided to her that we would 16 hear testimony from her first. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: The Ordinance doesn't 18 provide for that. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And, you know 20 what? Any time you make a future request to 21 subpoena anyone, the Ordinance doesn't require me 22 to put my signature on it. How about that, Mr. 23 Halbrooks? 24 We're going to recess. I'm going to 25 talk with you both individually out here. 00022 1 (Whereupon a recess was taken.) 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is a resumption of 3 the Common Council's Licenses Committee hearing. 4 We do have one member of the police department 5 that is subpoenaed. Lieutenant, if you could 6 come forward and take the standing microphone 7 unless there's a reason you cannot? Okay. If 8 you could raise your right hand, we'll swear you 9 in. Did we swear in all other members of the 10 public here already? Were you sworn in, 11 Lieutenant? 12 THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You were not. Okay. 14 If you could raise your right hand, we'll swear 15 you in. 16 (Whereupon the witness was sworn.) 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could provide 18 for the committee's edification, your name and 19 your position with the Milwaukee Police 20 Department, including the district that you work 21 out of, please. 22 THE WITNESS: I'm Sergeant Lynn 23 Champion, and I work at District 2, late shift. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Okay. Mr. 25 Halbrooks. 00023 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 Sergeant, we asked for you to be subpoenaed 3 today. Your duties at District 2 include tavern 4 - - tavern checks, in some cases, with regard to 5 Club Sugar, or license premises checks? 6 THE WITNESS: As a Sergeant, you have a 7 wide range of duties. I do sometimes go with 8 them on tavern checks. I'm new to the district, 9 so a lot of times I familiarize myself with the 10 newer - - with the, you know, the establishments 11 that are in the area. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: How many times have you 13 been to Club Sugar? 14 THE WITNESS: Once. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you were 16 there, were citations written? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: And what were the 19 citations for? 20 THE WITNESS: You'd be better off 21 asking the officers who wrote the citations. I 22 didn't write the citations. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. You gave 24 consultation to writing those citations? 25 THE WITNESS: I didn't counsel them at 00024 1 all. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: You didn't - - You 3 didn't have - - 4 THE WITNESS: I went with them. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: You did - - At the 6 point in time, you didn't have a sheet of paper 7 which had a - - a radio - - a print-out from a 8 radio station which had Club Energy on it? 9 THE WITNESS: The officers did, yes. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: And you saw that piece 11 of paper? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And the insinuation was 14 that, based on that radio station's promotional 15 information, a citation was written for the club 16 changing its name. 17 THE WITNESS: Correct. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: And did you have a 19 conversation with the managers of the club about 20 those citations at that point? 21 THE WITNESS: The officers and I were - 22 - were in the area. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: There was also a 24 citation written for lack of an "Exit" light? 25 THE WITNESS: An egress, yes. 00025 1 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you say 2 "egress," you mean not the bright orange exit 3 light. Correct? 4 THE WITNESS: There was a - - a 5 blockage on an egress, that - - I have that 6 citation. And that was for the blocking of the 7 egress, and there was a tavern report written for 8 that. They were cited for a violation of safe 9 egress from all entrance doors, serving rooms. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: And this was for a 11 light-bulb being out. Correct? 12 THE WITNESS: This was for the - - the 13 area being completely dark and, also, covered by 14 a very dark piece of material, which wouldn't 15 allow anyone in an emergency to know how to get 16 out. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: But the "Exit" light 18 was on, the orange exit light was on in the room, 19 though? 20 THE WITNESS: The exit light was on. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct. And so - - 22 THE WITNESS: The hallway, which is - - 23 leads to the door was not. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: And that was the second 25 citation in a row, you know, in two weeks that 00026 1 was written for that light-bulb. 2 THE WITNESS: That, I wouldn't be aware 3 of. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct. 5 THE WITNESS: I was only there one 6 time. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: Did you have a 8 conversation - - Do you recall a conversation 9 with the - - the managers of the club that night 10 about why you were there and - - and what this 11 level of - - of investigation was - - why this 12 was going on? 13 THE WITNESS: We said we were there, 14 because we were checking to see whether or not 15 there were any other violations. The other 16 officers had been there before, and I can't speak 17 for them. You didn't subpoena them. So I can't 18 speak for what I don't know. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm not asking you to. 20 I'm asking you about what you told them that 21 night. 22 THE WITNESS: What I told who? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: The - - The individuals 24 who are seated here. The individual - - 25 THE WITNESS: I told them that I was 00027 1 there because it was brought to my attention that 2 there was a tavern violation. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: And who brought it to 4 your attention? 5 THE WITNESS: The officers. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And did you - - Do you 7 agree that you told the - - the managers that 8 night that you were there and investigating 9 Texture and the - - and Club Sugar because of 10 aldermanic complaints? 11 THE WITNESS: We investigate anywhere 12 in the district that - - that may be - - have 13 tavern licensing violations or anything or 14 anywhere, but, no, we don't specifically - - I 15 hadn't specifically gotten anything from any 16 aldermanic complaint. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: I didn't ask you that. 18 Did you tell the managers that night that that 19 was the reason that - - 20 THE WITNESS: No, because that's not 21 why I was there. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: So, you're under oath, 23 and you are denying that you told them that you 24 had aldermanic complaints regarding Texture and 25 then Club Sugar. 00028 1 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't have told them 2 that, because I don't have aldermanic complaints. 3 I've been approached by neighbors who have had 4 multiple complaints. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Nothing 6 further. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any questions 8 by committee of Lieutenant Champion? 9 THE WITNESS: Sergeant Champion, sir. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Oh, I'm sorry. 11 Sergeant. I want to promote you after today 12 here, so, yeah. Other questions of the 13 committee. Alderman Witkowiak, was there any 14 follow-up questions for the Sergeant? 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Sergeant, did I 16 ever speak to you directly about this club? 17 THE WITNESS: No, sir. 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. I 19 understand that there was a - - We had a 20 neighborhood meeting recently, and it was said at 21 the neighborhood meeting that I met with the 22 Sergeant from the Milwaukee Police Department and 23 told the Sergeant to build a case against Club 24 Sugar. 25 THE WITNESS: To be honest with you, 00029 1 sir, I didn't know who you were until today. 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you, 4 Sergeant. All right. We have the front row for 5 individuals who are here in opposition to the - - 6 the license. Alderman Witkowiak, did you want to 7 make any opening statement here, or did you at 8 this point here want to defer to residents, and 9 then provide - - 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I'll defer to the 11 residents. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: When I hit the clock on 13 this here. We're going to hear from the first 14 witness here. If you want to take the standing 15 microphone. Again, if you are physically unable 16 to, please - - please take a seat here, and then 17 we'll take testimony. Name and then mailing 18 address for the record, please. 19 THE WITNESS: My name is Victor Ray, R- 20 A-Y. And I live at 1137 South 3rd Street, 21 Historic Walker's Point. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead, please. 23 THE WITNESS: I'm a neighbor in the 24 area. Also, own some res - - rental properties 25 in the area, and I'm also the neighborhood 00030 1 liaison for our Walker's Point Association. 2 I'm disappointed that I had to take 3 time off work today to come and testify in front 4 of this committee. But I felt it necessary to 5 speak up as a resident of my firsthand knowledge 6 of this club. Club Sugar opened in 2007 to cater 7 to an underserved market of young adult 8 nightlife. The club initially opened to play 9 Christian music, but ended up playing Top 40 10 dance and rap - - rock tracks. 11 In 2008, we, the neighbors, assembled 12 in the Hope House, along with the Club Sugar 13 representatives and our alderman to discuss the 14 noise, the mayhem attributed to Club Sugar. The 15 management of the Club Sugar handwrote a letter 16 to all of us present with stipulations of what 17 they would do to control the mayhem stemming from 18 underage drinking, not in their facility, but 19 outside prior to the kids coming in. It was my 20 understanding that the Licensing Committee was 21 looking at suspending their license for a period 22 of ten days at that time. 23 Things seemed to remain quiet after the 24 closing with noise limited to 2nd Street and the 25 Citgo, which is now the BP, on the corner of 2nd 00031 1 and Mineral, which I will not go near from the 2 hours of 11 to two a.m. due to the rude traffic 3 and the language the kids use when you try to 4 help them a little bit and tell them not to drink 5 when they're throwing those little bottles of 6 alcohol out through the window of their car. The 7 kids are around the station, and I - - and I 8 witnessed them myself, crossing the street and 9 going to the club. 10 Three months ago the trouble began 11 again. I witnessed the kids driving down and 12 changing in their car prior to going out. It is 13 my thoughts and only my perception, that their 14 parents have no ideas where their children are 15 going for the evening since they were changing 16 their clothes into some risque clothing that I 17 saw. 18 On Sunday morning, though, I walked my 19 dogs along 2nd and 3rd and on Mineral, and the 20 ground had been littered with empty bottles of 21 whiskey and vodka. This is the same place I 22 witnessed the children changing. If you listen 23 to the radio station 89.9, I heard the 24 advertisement for Club Sug - - Club Sugar, just 25 about four or five weeks ago, and it was touting 00032 1 hip-hop music, artists like Usher and Ludacris. 2 I don't even know those people. I've - - 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. Objection. 4 This is not a subject of the neighborhood 5 objections, the type of music. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Type of music. 7 I'm sure it's probably good music, because I have 8 sons who are - - are that age. On Saturday that 9 week I witnessed over 100 cars zigzagging 10 throughout the neighborhood, screaming 11 obscenities, hanging out windows, et cetera. It 12 just so happens that the car I saw parked on 13 Mineral between 2nd and 3rd came up my street on 14 Scott and made a right on 3rd with all those 15 other cars. At that moment I called the police. 16 The police responded. They chased three cars 17 south on - - on 3rd Street, and the rest of the 18 cars went forward past Allen-Bradley to 2nd 19 Street, and then made a - - a left onto 3rd 20 Street and took off and left the neighborhood. 21 We held a neighborhood meeting at 22 Bradley Tech a few weeks ago. And I must admit 23 the mayhem has stopped. It's been quiet. But 24 this is the second time I have felt it necessary 25 to come and speak against Club Sugar. I was 00033 1 hoping that the owner, Sean Pliss, was truly 2 concerned for the neighborhood. After the 3 displays of the last couple of months I cannot 4 condone this type of activity. We live in this 5 neighborhood. I appreciate what you do for the 6 kids. You give them a place to go. But when the 7 kids don't respect the neighborhood and the 8 residence that live there - - 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Ray, I am going to 10 at this point cut your testimony off, because 11 you're preventing others. You're doing a public 12 scolding of this gentleman here, and you're 13 preventing others from testifying, because the 14 clock is running on you and all others. 15 THE WITNESS: Okay. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay? 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. All I would like 18 to say is just our hands are tied. The safety of 19 our families of Historic Walker's Point is in the 20 hands of this aldermanic committee. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. If 22 you would remain, sir, as per my discretion. 23 Everyone remain, please, afterwards until I 24 dismiss you. Questions by committee first. 25 Questions? 00034 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Alderman? Is the 2 alderman questioning? 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions? 4 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I'll - - I'm sorry. 5 In the past when we had Alderman Bauman, he went 6 first, and then I - - 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No. Alderman Bauman 8 inter - - interjects sometimes, but he doesn't - 9 - I'm going to ask you if you have questions 10 here? 11 MR. HALBROOKS: I have questions. 12 MR. MAISTELMAN: I - - I would defer to 13 Attorney Halbrooks. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Sir, just maybe we can 15 get something out of the way at the beginning 16 here. Do you know what mayhem is? 17 THE WITNESS: Yeah, mayhem is - - is 18 kind of distress in the area, a lot of - - a lot 19 of noise, a lot of rude acting, causing des - - 20 not destruction but disruption in the 21 neighborhood, woke me up out of my sleep. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: You've never actually 23 looked up the definition, have you? 24 THE WITNESS: No. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So you - - If it's 00035 1 mutilation of human body parts, that's not what 2 you're referring to, so. 3 THE WITNESS: That's not exactly what 4 I'm referring to. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: So every time you refer 6 to mayhem, you meant disturbing the peace. 7 THE WITNESS: Right. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now, you 9 indicated a particular night there were 100 cars 10 zigzagging around. Which night was that? 11 THE WITNESS: That was a Saturday 12 night, and I don't have the date with me, but I 13 do have - - I did call it in, so my - - my record 14 is on file at the police department. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: How long ago? 16 THE WITNESS: It was about four weeks 17 ago. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: So, early April? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Now what time was this? 21 THE WITNESS: 1:37 exactly. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Now at that 23 time, of course, you know, that Sugar is closed 24 for over an hour. 25 THE WITNESS: I didn't know that. 00036 1 MR. HALBROOKS: You know - - You know 2 they close at 12:30. Right? 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. What - - 5 Are you able to testify under oath that the 6 people that were in the cars came from Club 7 Sugar? 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So if - - 10 You were at - - You remember that Bradley Tech 11 meeting? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: You - - There was a 14 woman that got up, spoke there, and it was about, 15 I think this is a planned kind of thing. That - 16 - That wouldn't surprise you if it was a planned 17 kind of thing, would it? 18 THE WITNESS: What do you mean 19 "planned?" 20 MR. HALBROOKS: That the people showing 21 up there. 22 THE WITNESS: No, they're neighbors. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no. I'm talking 24 about the cars. 25 THE WITNESS: Oh, the cars? I have no 00037 1 idea. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: So you don't know. And 3 so your - - your testimony is that an hour after 4 the club closes a 100 cars were zigzagging 5 through - - 6 THE WITNESS: At least 100 cars through 7 the neighborhood. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Nothing 9 further. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And, 11 Alderman Kovac, please intervene if - - if you do 12 have any questions of any of the witnesses, just 13 let me know. 14 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Next 16 witness, please. 17 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I have one 18 question. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Schrimpf, if 20 you could - - 21 MS. SCHRIMPF: On those nights that you 22 observed the cars zigzagging around and the 23 disturbing of the peace that you've observed, 24 okay, do you know if Club Sugar was open or not? 25 THE WITNESS: I know Club Sugar was 00038 1 open sometime that night. 2 MS. SCHRIMPF: Okay. Do you experience 3 the same kind of disturbing of the peace and 4 traffic that you've described to the committee on 5 nights when Club Sugar is not open? 6 THE WITNESS: No, I - - I haven't - - I 7 don't know when Club Sugar is not open. 8 MS. SCHRIMPF: So you don't know if 9 they're open or not. 10 THE WITNESS: Right. 11 MS. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 12 THE WITNESS: I just was walking my 13 dog, and saw Club Sugar open that night. 14 MS. SCHRIMPF: And that's when you 15 experienced this. 16 THE WITNESS: Exactly. That's when I 17 turned around and walked - - 18 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mayhem, as you described 19 it. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 MS. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 22 Chairman. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Follow up, Mr. 25 Halbrooks? 00039 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. Are you 2 aware of any other clubs in the neighborhood that 3 are also open on Saturday nights, such as Club El 4 Babalu? 5 THE WITNESS: There's Club Rain. 6 There's a whole bunch of clubs open. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: So in that - - this 8 tends to be Friday, Saturday night. 9 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: That all - - Yes? You 11 have to say yes or no. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay, so, you don't - - 14 Again, after Mr. Schrimpf asked you the question, 15 it doesn't really narrow anything down for us. 16 THE WITNESS: All I can tell you is the 17 kids looked young, who were driving the cars 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah, well, that's a 19 phenomenon we - - I'm sure you and I both share. 20 Thank you. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman, Club 22 Rain has not been open for several months, just 23 for the record. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, I don't - - Mr. 25 Chair, I object. 00040 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And the reason for the 2 objection is you object to Club Rain not being 3 open? 4 MR. HALBROOKS: I object to the 5 Alderman ever appearing his testimony. He's 6 under oath. I asked him some questions. I - - 7 He - - I asked the Alderman if he wanted to go 8 first. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Your objection 10 will be duly noted. I will reject that, and - - 11 and we will accept the fact that Alderman 12 Witkowiak is a representative for the area, knows 13 that Club Rain has not been opened, as he 14 testified here. Thank you, sir, for your 15 testimony. Next witness, please. And by the 16 way, I calculated five minutes of testimony for 17 him. I - - The way that it reads is additional 18 time, based on questions that will be asked. So 19 if you ask five minutes worth of questions, it 20 doesn't take away the 30 minutes of time. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah. 23 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 My name is Jose Zarate, and I own a parking lot 25 on 924 South 1st Street. For the past several 00041 1 months I've been doing a lot of clean-up there. 2 On week - - on weekends there is a lot of garbage 3 left over there. And I haven't seen this 4 personally, but I know - - 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's hear what he has, 7 because I may agree with you here, Mr. Halbrooks. 8 THE WITNESS: My manager who runs the 9 business that I have, when I told him, why is 10 this so much garbage here - - 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. I'm going to - - 13 I'm going to - - I'm going to sustain that here, 14 because you're - - you're dealing in an area here 15 where it's hearsay at this point. 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. On a Saturday 17 night, around 1:35, I was standing with a friend 18 of mine on the corner of 6th and National. And 19 there were - - There must have been like 200 cars 20 coming down, turning to ride on - - on South 6th 21 Street from Mineral. And it - - It was just 22 incredible. I - - I haven't seen this before in 23 the - - in the neighborhood. And afterwards, I 24 found out that these cars originated from Club 25 Sugar. This is what - - This is what people in 00042 1 the area were telling me, because - - 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 3 THE WITNESS: - - I'm telling you. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That - - Mr. Zarate, 5 unfortunately, that testimony will be stricken, 6 because, again, the - - Unless you see it 7 personally, the secondhand testimony of 8 individuals may be correct. They may be 9 incorrect. The fact is, is this committee cannot 10 accept hearsay testimony, and what you hear from 11 others, unless they are present here, we cannot 12 accept. 13 THE WITNESS: Well, okay. I saw 14 cruising then that one night. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You saw cruising that 16 night? 17 THE WITNESS: Heavy cruising, around 18 1:30 - 35 in the morning on a Saturday night. 19 And it must have been like - - It was late - - 20 late March, beginning of April. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Zarate, your 22 determination that these cruisers were coming 23 from this location as opposed to others was 24 determined on what? 25 THE WITNESS: Simply because I saw 00043 1 them, that they were originated from Mineral - - 2 on Mineral Street, which I was looking south, and 3 there is Mineral. They were making a right turn 4 going north on 6th Street. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And that was - - They 6 were coming from the vicinity of this particular 7 establishment? 8 THE WITNESS: Mineral - - Mineral is 9 the same street where Sugar is on. But I am 10 talking on - - This is - - This is three or four 11 blocks away. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Okay. All 13 right. Questions by committee? Mr. Halbrooks, 14 Mr. Maistelman? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, thank you. 16 MR. MAISTELMAN: Mr. Halbrooks. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Zarate, first off, 18 you own a lot, 924 South 1st Street? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And I heard you say 21 that you've been cleaning it up. You - - You've 22 actually been the one cleaning the lot? 23 THE WITNESS: I have people clean it 24 up. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So when you said you 00044 1 had been cleaning it, that was not a true 2 statement. 3 THE WITNESS: No. I guess not. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And you're 5 still - - You're under oath. Right? You're not 6 - - You raised you hand before? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now, 1:35, you 9 heard testimony that Sugar is closed for over an 10 hour at that point. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. You said that 12 before. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And you noticed 200 14 cars? 15 THE WITNESS: I would say 150, 200 16 cars, yes. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: 150. So you counted 18 them? 19 THE WITNESS: No, I'm just saying that 20 - - No, I'm just guessing, estimating. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And you - - You said 22 you were standing on the corner of South 6th and 23 National. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: And how many blocks 00045 1 away from Sugar are you at that point? 2 THE WITNESS: Well, there are two 3 blocks to Mineral, and then there are six blocks 4 to Sugar. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: So you're eight blocks 6 away. 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: So you don't have any 9 idea where these cars were coming from. 10 THE WITNESS: No. No. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 12 THE WITNESS: I mean, I - - Like I 13 said, I - - Later on I found out. But, you know, 14 I - - No, I - - 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Because we just want to 16 talk about what you know. What I want to ask you 17 about is the corner of 6th and National is a 18 place called El Babalu? 19 THE WITNESS: I think so, yes. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Think so. And are you 21 familiar with that place at all? 22 THE WITNESS: No, I guess it's kind of 23 new. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: It is kind of new. 25 Could I show you something? 00046 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 3 MR. MAISTELMAN: With the Chair's 4 permission. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is this going to come 6 out of your time here now, because, otherwise, 7 you can play that later on. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: It's cross-examination. 9 It's a couple of minutes. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to count it 11 out of your time. It's used to make your case. 12 Unless you - - You have the ability to raise 13 questions of their testimony. You are making a 14 presentation with this here. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: I want to cross-examine 16 him about the place at the corner - - 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: He was standing on the 19 corner where the club is located. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf? 21 MS. SCHRIMPF: It's well within the 22 Chair's discretion. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It is the Chair's 24 decision. If you - - Do you wish to use that as 25 part of your time right now? I'm more than happy 00047 1 to provide you that ability. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: I will. Are we able to 3 to do a DVD in here? 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We can do that in here, 5 can't we? Yeah. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And we can - - Can we 7 fast-forward it a little bit? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: They certainly can. Do 9 you know roughly where it's going to be, Mr. 10 Halbrooks? 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah. Well, it's 12 only - - 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I don't want to - - I 14 don't want to dwell any longer on your time here 15 either, but I just - - If you're asking normal 16 questions here - - Now, you're presenting 17 evidence, so I'm actually counting that as your 18 time. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, I don't - - I - - 20 I just would object to that for the record, Mr. 21 Chair. I think - - The gentleman got up here, 22 made a bunch of statements, none of which were 23 true, as far as I can tell, and now I want to 24 show him what he observed that night, and - - and 25 ask him to question - - 00048 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: By the way, I - - In 2 the compilation between the two I'm at nine 3 minutes roughly from the first two witnesses. 4 So. Go ahead. Do you know - - I don't know how 5 long - - Mr. Halbrooks, do you have on the - - on 6 the tape, and then - - 7 MR. HALBROOKS: We can start it. 8 (Whereupon the tape was played.) 9 (Whereupon Mr. Pliss and his associate 10 are heard on the tape.) 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: She's saying it would 12 not - - Do you - - 13 MS. SCHRIMPF: It's okay for the 14 committee to consider this. We normally have a 15 foundation, at least, of what this is for the 16 record. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: That's why I want to go 18 over this with him. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you know, Mr. 20 Halbrooks, roughly how long it would be here 21 before what you want to get to is? 22 MR. HALBROOKS: The whole thing is 23 eight or nine minutes. It's several minutes 24 forward. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Should we 00049 1 forward the - - the disk here now at this point. 2 Or you know what? Can we even forward it here 3 and play it in the background here while we're 4 taking additional testimony and let it run 5 without - - 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Turn the sound off. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If we can, let's do 8 that, then. All right. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Was there anything else 11 that you had for Mr. Zarate? 12 MR. HALBROOKS: No, if we can let it 13 play, and then maybe if he can watch it, then we 14 can jump - - Somebody else can go, and then by 15 then it will probably be right. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Zarate, if you 17 could remain in the front row here. I'd 18 appreciate that. Why don't we take the next 19 witness here? 20 Can we turn the volume down on that 21 then? Okay. For Channel 25, if you could turn 22 off the volume on the CD, please. We're going to 23 proceed forward with additional testimony without 24 volume on the CD. Mr. Halbrooks? 25 Mr. Halbrooks, who took this - - who 00050 1 took the videotape? 2 MR. HALBROOKS: That's Sean's voice. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And - - 4 MR. HALBROOKS: And Max is a friend of 5 his. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: - - each one of you 7 here, Mr. Pliss, were the - - Which one is the 8 one manning the camera? 9 THE APPLICANT: He started with it, and 10 then I got out of the car with it. So we both 11 did at some point. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And - - And this 13 was the date that we see and the time that we see 14 here on the - - the screen? Does that comport 15 as far as your knowledge about when this was 16 taken? 17 THE APPLICANT: That's correct. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, any 19 additional foundation? 20 MS. SCHRIMPF: And what does this 21 purport to show the committee? 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry? 23 MS. SCHRIMPF: What does this purport 24 to show the committee? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: This is going to show 00051 1 exactly the activity that Mr. Zarate just 2 testified about, only all the people coming from 3 El Babalu including the traffic, the dancing in 4 the street, the gunshots and no police officers. 5 MS. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Can we get the volume 7 now, if there is volume? 8 (Whereupon the tape was played with 9 volume.) 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Pliss, while we're 11 watching this, can you tell where are you located 12 out of - - 13 THE APPLICANT: I'm on 6th and 14 National. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Where is this in 16 relation to your - - your establishment? 17 THE APPLICANT: Five blocks. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Where was he 19 standing? 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Zarate, her 21 questions was is that true in terms of you were 22 standing in this general vicinity here? 23 THE WITNESS: On the night that I saw 24 this happening, I didn't see that. What I saw 25 was just really heavy traffic. That was not the 00052 1 night I saw it, because there was no - - That was 2 not around that night. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: When you did see the 4 cruising, were you in this general area here 5 around this - - 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please use the 8 microphone. 9 THE WITNESS: When I saw this, it must 10 have been like around end of - - It was March, I 11 was standing about 6th and National. What I saw, 12 it was a long line, yes. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: When you say a "long 14 line," did it seem like it was organized? 15 THE WITNESS: What do you mean 16 organized? 17 MR. HALBROOKS: It seemed like an 18 organized - - 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Did you want the 20 continuation of the tape here? 21 MR. HALBROOKS: That's fine, yeah. 22 Absolutely. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. 24 That's fine. 25 MR. MAISTELMAN: Well, we can play it 00053 1 in the background while - - 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I mean, I don't 3 know what the purpose is. He - - He wasn't here 4 on the 17th. So what's the purpose of showing a 5 tape if he wasn't there on the 17th? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I want to ask him if 7 this is the type of behavior that he witnessed 8 that night when - - In a couple of minutes when 9 the - - when the street is completely jammed up 10 with cars, that's what I want to ask him about. 11 If I could have fast-forwarded it. 12 MR. MAISTELMAN: So do you want to take 13 the next witness, David? 14 THE WITNESS: One thing I know is that 15 the - - the drivers - - The drivers were awfully 16 young. I don't think they - - they would have 17 been old enough to go into a nightclub. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do we have sound from 19 Channel 25 here? 20 MR. MAISTELMAN: Mr. Chairman, I - - 21 (Whereupon the tape was played.) 22 THE WITNESS: These people were 23 sticking their face out, and they were sticking 24 their body out from the passenger side. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's take some of the 00054 1 audio down here. Because we're not going to get 2 a good record. Alderwoman Coggs. 3 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: What - - This is for 4 Mr. Pfaff. What type of license does El Babalu's 5 have? 6 MR. PFAFF: I'm still looking. 7 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Still looking for 8 it? 9 MR. PFAFF: I'm still searching on 10 that. I'm trying to find an address for that. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll keep the tape - - 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If the tape is running, 14 that's why I asked if you want to stop the tape. 15 I can't help the fact that, unfortunately, your 16 request - - And I did request for us to fast- 17 forward. We don't have the ability to do that. 18 Not with this tape. It's not working, so. Do 19 you want me to continue with the tape being 20 played at this point? 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, it - - It doesn't 22 do any good to have it with the volume off. 23 So - - 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will - - And I'm 25 willing to sit with the volume on, but it's 00055 1 coming out of your time, though. That's just the 2 thing, Mr. Halbrooks. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. I 4 budgeted for that. But I don't know how much 5 more is - - 6 THE APPLICANT: It's got to be - - 7 Yeah, it's not long here. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Will you turn the 9 volume up, please? 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: A minute after a spot 11 where you think that you're going to get it? 12 (Whereupon the tape was played.) 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: We may want to 14 save this DVD for when El Babalu's license comes 15 up. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Did you have any 17 additional questions for Mr. Zarate? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes, thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Zarate, you were 21 just testifying those people looked older in that 22 video? 23 THE WITNESS: Well, some of them look 24 young, but the ones that I saw that one night 25 when I was there, they were sticking their head - 00056 1 - their body out of the cars, and they looked 2 younger. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. You are 4 aware that the night you were just testifying 5 about was also a teen night. So the people were 6 the same age as the people that are the customers 7 of Sugar? 8 THE WITNESS: I - - I don't know that. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: You don't know that. 10 So you're - - You're not really sure about any of 11 the ages. It's just the behavior that bothered 12 you. 13 THE WITNESS: Well, it's kind of scary 14 to see so many cars blocking the traffic. I 15 don't know if you have a business in the area, 16 but it - - it certainly is kind of threatening. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And if there was an 18 organized effort to block - - to show up and 19 block the traffic, we would all certainly want to 20 work on stopping that immediately. Correct? 21 THE WITNESS: I would assume so. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And you're 23 aware that since the public meeting, which was 24 the first time Sugar found out about any of these 25 concerns, that they were stated, that there 00057 1 hasn't been any concerns. Mr. Ray testified it 2 slowed up since then. 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know that. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs? 8 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Earlier I asked the 9 question of Mr. Pfaff, what type of license does 10 El Babalu's hold. He informed me while all the 11 video stuff was going on that they hold a Class B 12 Tavern and is it Cabaret, you said? 13 MR. PFAFF: Correct. Cabaret, and 14 also, an extended hour establishment. I think 15 there's a restaurant there, as well. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Now I just heard, 17 Attorney Halbrooks, you mentioned that this was 18 actually a teen night. Do we have any 19 corroboration that El Babalu has teen nights? 20 What - - What was it? A Saturday? 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, if you could use 22 the microphone, please. 23 THE APPLICANT: Sure. They have them 24 sporadically from Friday - - Friday and 25 Saturdays. 00058 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any - - 2 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: What about - - 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah. Any Class B 4 establishment would get the - - Does it come 5 through you Sergeant? 6 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: That is correct. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So it goes through the 8 district station. They forward it to you. Do 9 you have any knowledge of El Babalu making those 10 requests? 11 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: Yes. However, not 12 on that particular night. I'd have to go back 13 into my files. The woman who runs El Babalu or 14 my point of contact, I think her name was Anna 15 Ramirez, and she was always very religious about 16 sending me these requests. I just can't recall 17 if there was one on that particular night without 18 going to my files. 19 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Would you say that they 21 do it weekly, biweekly, just based on 22 recollection, and I know that's - - 23 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: I haven't heard 24 from her in a couple of weeks. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: In or around this time, 00059 1 were they doing - - 2 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: I would say 3 generally every third week. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 5 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: Or so. One again, 6 I'd really have to check my files. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But that's just based 8 on your best - - 9 SERGEANT MACGILLIS: Yes, sir. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your best guesstimate 11 here. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. 12 Next witness, please. 13 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chair, my name is 14 Julie Kaufmann, K-A-U-F-M-A-N-N. 602 South 3rd 15 Street. I believe I'm the last person to speak 16 in opposition. How much time do we have? 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Plenty of time. We 18 have about nine minutes that they used - - used 19 up. 20 THE WITNESS: I won't use all that. 21 So I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I 22 serve as the license committee chair for our 23 neighborhood association. We're a very active 24 organization of many residents, businesses who 25 come together. We have dozens of licensees in 00060 1 the neighborhood, many of whom are very active in 2 the association. 3 So I'd like to speak about my personal 4 experience as the license chair and my 5 relationship with this applicant. My primary 6 points are about disrespect, being a good 7 neighbor, and what it takes to build a community. 8 And I appreciate the opportunity to speak about 9 that. We had a neighborhood meeting a few weeks 10 ago, and there were, dozens of neighbors who were 11 able to come - - It was in the evening - - who 12 spoke, I would say characterize it as generally 13 all with a number of significant concerns, a few 14 of which have been mentioned in testimony 15 tonight, but very few. 16 As you can see, everybody left is 17 apparently here to speak in favor of the license. 18 So none of those neighbors are here. And that's 19 unfortunate, because they had a lot of things to 20 say. The concern about that neighborhood meeting 21 was that prior to the meeting - - Sorry, it's 22 hard for me to be up here. 23 MR. MAISTELMAN: Would you like to sit 24 here? 25 THE WITNESS: No. 00061 1 MR. MAISTELMAN: Next to him. 2 THE WITNESS: We received an e-mail 3 from counsel of the applicant that circulated 4 throughout the neighborhood for warning us that 5 anybody who would provide statements at that 6 neighborhood meeting should be made aware that 7 they would be videotaped. And there would be a 8 Court Reporter documenting what they said. Which 9 is, indeed, what happened. And I want to express 10 to you that that felt very threatening and 11 intimidating to many people. Despite that, many 12 people still showed up. Although, obviously they 13 did not today. 14 Now, when we got there, the applicant, 15 who we're trying to be a neighbor with, did not 16 speak to us. Has not joined the neighborhood 17 association, has not been participatory. Rather, 18 we were - - were made to deal with - - 19 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm going to object to 20 this line. I - - I can't imagine that we're 21 talking about granting a license. It's not part 22 of the objection that they haven't joined the 23 association. This is out of order. 24 MR. MAISTELMAN: More to hearsay. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Let's - - I'll 00062 1 - - I'll concur in terms of the last point here 2 that was just made with the association. Be 3 specific to the items in the notice as much as 4 possible here, please. 5 THE WITNESS: It's really hard. 6 There's a - - There are a lot of problems in our 7 neighborhood we're trying to work together with 8 the applicants on. And we can't work together if 9 you won't be a good neighbor and talk to us. I 10 mean, denying that these things exist is not 11 going to get anywhere. They're happening. We 12 obviously see they're happening. If you're not 13 doing it, let's work together to solve it. And I 14 know he's going to object, and I don't have an 15 attorney to get my right testimony out here. I 16 guess I'd just like to finish by saying - - I'm 17 not normally this nervous. 18 I'm happy to see so many people here. 19 It's really cool that people are publicly 20 participating in the process. That's awesome. 21 And as neighbors we're really supportive of 22 places for people who don't have legal drinking 23 age to go to. So you're going to hear probably a 24 lot of people in support of this license for 25 those reasons. We don't take issue with that. 00063 1 We take issue with violation of the law, and 2 reduction of qualify of life, and we think this 3 applicant can do a better job of participating 4 and helping make our neighborhood better. 5 So I guess we'd like more respect. I 6 don't have any belief that all they're going to 7 do is object to us and make this very difficult 8 for us. And then you'll probably not be able to 9 do much, but maybe give them a suspension. And 10 we are going to stick around for the rest of the 11 hearing you'll have to listen to. It's just 12 disappointing that when you get your license 13 renewed, that you're just going to continue to 14 ignore us as your neighbor. That's not a very 15 good way to build community. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Kaufmann, if you 17 could hold on, if you could please here? 18 Alderman Zielinski? 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: The letter that 20 you referred to, was that letter signed by 21 anybody? 22 THE WITNESS: Which letter? 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: The letter that 24 you were referring to. There was a letter 25 circulated amongst the neighbors. Did 00064 1 anybody - - 2 THE WITNESS: I mean no - - I mean from 3 this attorney, Attorney Halbrooks. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: David Halbrooks, 5 the letter was signed by David Halbrooks. That 6 was my only question. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Follow-up for you here 8 on a couple of matters. The - - Your concerns 9 that you purport to bring here for this 10 establishment, how - - First of all, how close 11 are you to you in terms of residing? 12 THE WITNESS: Me, personally, I don't 13 have any direct testimony against the applicant 14 in terms of behaviors. I live about five blocks. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: About five blocks away. 16 I mean, have you, yourself, been in this general 17 area in the late and the evening hours? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Have you witnessed 20 anything that you would deem as - - as 21 inappropriate behavior of young persons? 22 THE WITNESS: I can't testify to that 23 fact. I have not. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: I represent - - I 00065 1 work - - 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You work - - You work 3 as a community organizer here and - - 4 THE WITNESS: So I'm very familiar with 5 my neighbors. But I can't testify for them, and 6 they're not here, unfortunately. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. 8 Thank you for your testimony. Other questions by 9 committee? Follow-up questions of this witness? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 11 Let's deal with a couple of things. The - - Your 12 position - - What are your duties as your 13 position as the license chair for your 14 organization? 15 THE WITNESS: I volunteer. A lot of 16 time, like this, I had to take off of work 17 without pay, to tell - - to help try and build 18 relationships with a lot of our licensees, and to 19 circulate information about renewals, to gather 20 information - - 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Were - - 22 THE WITNESS: Are you going to 23 interrupt me or do you want me to tell you what I 24 do? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah. I - - I want 00066 1 - - What I'm asking about is in the context of 2 those things, what do you do? I heard you say 3 that before. What do you do? How do you - - 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I think she was just 5 answering that. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: How do you build 7 relationships? 8 THE WITNESS: I don't get an attorney 9 to get in between me, typically, in relations 10 when I build them. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Kaufmann, do you 12 work with blockwatches? 13 THE WITNESS: I - - I'm a licensed 14 chair. So it's part of an organized 15 association. So when you're a member, if you 16 happen to be a license holder in our 17 organization, I make sure I reach out to you, as 18 a license holder and a member of our 19 organization, to let you know that we care about 20 you as a licensee. We'd like to promote your 21 business. How can we do that? And help you 22 ensure that you get feedback from the 23 neighborhood if there are concerns. So I work 24 with members in that way. I also work outside of 25 the membership to circulate information when 00067 1 applicants are going to come due for license 2 renewals. 3 And so a lot of times, you know, there 4 will be a renewal of a license where it's a 5 longstanding business or a new business we're 6 really encouraging in the neighborhood, bring in 7 new business, to let people know if they'd like 8 to write a letter of support, how they do that, 9 how they get in touch with the license committee, 10 how they get in touch with the alderman. 11 Conversely, if there is concerns, how they can 12 find out about this committee, talk to the 13 aldermen and so forth. So, I'm basically 14 somebody who tries to share information. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Can you tell the 16 committee all the times over the last two years 17 that - - And you've been describing instance, 18 that you spoke to Mr. Pliss in dealt with in the 19 context of what you just testified about? 20 THE WITNESS: Who is that? 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Exactly. So you never 22 talked to the licensee in this case. The 23 applicant. You never talked to Mister - - 24 THE WITNESS: Has he ever talked to me? 25 THE APPLICANT: No. 00068 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Right. You - - But you 2 - - Your job is the outreach. Right? 3 THE WITNESS: To members. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: And so - - 5 THE WITNESS: To members. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: So is the problem here 7 that they didn't join the association? 8 THE WITNESS: I can't talk to him. I 9 can only talk to you. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So - - 11 THE WITNESS: And don't flip it on me. 12 I mean, this is so rude. Whatever, I know it's 13 your job, but - - 14 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah. 15 THE WITNESS: His number is not 16 published. We tried - - I've tried - - I talked 17 to the neighbors. I don't - - I look to the 18 neighbors and their concerns, so the neighbors 19 have told me that they have - - have difficulty 20 reaching him, and that he doesn't - - He's just 21 not trying to work together. We're not trying to 22 work together. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Now, with 24 regard to the meeting a few weeks - - 25 THE WITNESS: Which meeting? 00069 1 MR. HALBROOKS: The meeting at Bradley 2 Tech. 3 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: You don't - - You 5 describe it as intimidating that the meeting was 6 being recorded. But certainly there was no 7 concern about anybody telling the truth that 8 night, was there? 9 THE WITNESS: What? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: There wasn't any - - 11 What was the reason that it was intimidating that 12 the meeting was - - 13 THE WITNESS: People get intimidated. 14 I don't know why, by goofs like you. But that 15 - - You threatened them that you would take them 16 to - - 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss - - 18 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. That was 19 rude. That was - - 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Stop right there. 21 THE WITNESS: But, I mean, really - - 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, let's - - 23 Let's - - 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's keep the comments 25 under - - 00070 1 THE WITNESS: It's threatening - - 2 People feel you said be prepared essentially - - 3 I'm paraphrasing, because I don't have it in 4 front of me, to be prepared to defend your 5 statements in court. That feels intimidating to 6 a layperson who is coming to a community 7 neighborhood meeting. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: But that - - Those 9 statements were - - You're - - You're mixing up 10 the two concepts. The recording of the meeting 11 was different than people making false 12 statements. That - - I - - I was - - That was 13 referring to false statements, wasn't it? You 14 don't recall that from the e-mail? 15 THE WITNESS: I'm not saying people 16 were concerned because they might lie and you'd 17 catch them. People are just concerned if you 18 threaten them with the potential - - I'm nervous 19 right now. And I'm telling the truth. I mean, 20 it's just nerve-racking. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Well, I'm 22 - - The thing is is that what - - what conveyance 23 of the concerns to Sugar are you aware of before 24 that meeting that night? Did you convey any 25 concerns or are you aware of any written or 00071 1 verbal concerns along the lines that were 2 expressed that night that were conveyed to Sugar 3 before that night? 4 THE WITNESS: I'm aware of a history of 5 attempts as was previously testified. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm talking about, are 7 you aware of any communication with them before 8 that night about those concerns? 9 THE WITNESS: I guess I'm going to 10 answer no. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So, if 12 that's the case, and if it's the case that Sugar 13 had no idea what they were walking into that 14 night, and I really would - - would like you to 15 stick around, because if it turns out that it was 16 a completely different group of people, a well- 17 organized Internet based group of people, not 18 Sugar customers, that were organizing and 19 performing these activities, would that change 20 your opinion of Sugar? 21 THE WITNESS: My opinion that I'm 22 testifying to is a lack of communication and 23 relationship. I don't have a direct testimony 24 experience about the other matters that are being 25 testified to. So, no, it would not. I still 00072 1 don't have a relationship with the applicant. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Nothing further. 3 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 5 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: This meeting at 6 Bradley Tech that keeps being referred to, who 7 was the sponsor of that meeting? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you don't know - - 9 THE WITNESS: I think the Alderman. 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: You sponsored it? 11 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: This e-mail that the 13 witness referred to that was sent out, who was it 14 sent to and when was it sent? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Oh, that's me? Mr. 16 McGuire sent me - - or sent us a notice of the 17 meeting, and it was to a large group, and so we 18 just replied to that. I wrote an e-mail replying 19 to the people, telling them, because I thought, 20 well, I'm going to record the meeting, and if 21 they show up there, you know, they might be 22 upset. So I might as well get it out of the way 23 in advance and let them know that this is what's 24 going to happen. Because we're going to do it. 25 I have a tape of it. If the people had stayed 00073 1 around to testify and based on what they said 2 that night, I have a perfectly good explanation 3 for everything that's happened here, and I don't 4 think anybody there that night did. I don't 5 think we did. But it was sent to whatever group 6 that Mr. McGuire distributed it to. 7 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: It will have no 8 bearing on the decision today, but just for my 9 own edification, I would like to see a copy of 10 that e-mail, if at all possible. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Oh, sure. Absolutely. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: I - - You know, I 14 worked hard on it. I made it clear that - - 15 Because at that time we didn't know what the 16 facts were. All we had was the Alderman on the 17 TV complaining of mayhem. And so, we didn't know 18 what the problems were. We do now. I will show 19 you, and I will explain it to you. It's quite 20 shocking, quite graphic, and horrible. And - - 21 And we believe that as it relates to Sugar, it's 22 been resolved. But it is going to be disturbing 23 on a citywide level when you see what I have for 24 you. But it has nothing to do with Sugar. 25 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 00074 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you, 2 Ms. Kaufmann. Were there any other individuals 3 here in opposition to the license? Any others? 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Witkowiak. 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I have some 7 personal testimony. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. Please, go 9 ahead. 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Would you like me 11 to give that now - - 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes, please. 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: - - or would you 14 like me to give that at the end? 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Whatever is easier for 16 you. 17 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I mean, whatever 18 you think is - - is - - is proper, as far as - - 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Why don't we - - Why 20 don't we do that at this point here, because that 21 way we can block in terms of times. Go ahead. 22 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Just to clear the 23 record in the beginning. The - - I did not read 24 the dictionary meaning of the word mayhem. So if 25 I used that, I was referring to general disorder 00075 1 in my television interview, which you've brought 2 that up several times. So I was referring to 3 general disorder. 4 On Easter Sunday evening at 8:30 p.m. I 5 was driving south on - - north, I'm sorry, on 6 South 1st Street. And I noticed a large number 7 of cars and crowd of people just east of 1st 8 Street on Mineral. I turned the corner, and the 9 - - This was all - - There was a lot of people 10 congregating, and milling around and walking back 11 and forth in front of Club Sugar. This is my 12 personal testimony. I didn't hear this from 13 anybody else. And I did this after I received 14 numerous phone calls and e-mails about complaints 15 about this place. 16 So as I turned right on Mineral to head 17 east, the traffic was backed up considerably. I 18 just got a couple car lengths into the street, 19 and it was stop and go, stop and go. When I 20 looked further ahead to the end of the street, 21 one block east, there was a - - like a Suburban 22 type vehicle, a dark vehicle with orange flashing 23 lights on top of the vehicle. And that vehicle 24 had the westbound lane blocked and sort of 25 hanging - - partially hanging over in blocking 00076 1 the eastbound lane. It took me quite awhile to 2 get up to that point. It was stop and go 3 traffic. Probably took me, oh, probably took me 4 the better part of ten minutes to get actually to 5 that corner, one block east. But during that 6 period of time I observed the - - There was a lot 7 of people milling around outside of Club Sugar. 8 And there was a lot of noise. There was a lot of 9 yelling. There was a lot of general - - general 10 disorder and disturbance there. When I finally 11 got up to the vehicle that was partially blocking 12 the street, I rolled down the window and I very 13 politely said to the gentleman, I said, "Do you 14 have a permit for blocking the street?" And he 15 kind of chuckled and he said, "No." He said, 16 this is exactly what he said, "I'm just trying to 17 keep all hell from breaking loose here." 18 So I proceeded to go around the 19 partially blocked street. Turned left, go to 20 National Avenue, and then I left the scene. I 21 returned shortly after midnight. It was - - I 22 looked on my watch. It was about 12:20. And I - 23 - Again, I headed - - I was heading north on 1st 24 Street, and I went just past Mineral, and I went 25 into the - - right past the first building. So I 00077 1 parked just north of Mineral on South 1st Street. 2 And I observed people coming from Club Sugar, 3 getting into their cars, and I'll tell you, it 4 was - - I'm surprised that nobody got hurt. 5 There was people going around the corners at a 6 high rate of speed with the doors open. People 7 hanging out of the moon roofs. Lots of noise. I 8 could hear noise all over. A couple people that 9 walked past me to get to their cars that were 10 parked further away made comments like, "What are 11 you looking at?" 12 When I observed this large group of 13 cars kind of get together, at one point they went 14 - - There was - - The traffic coming north on 1st 15 Street approaching Mineral was blocked, because 16 there was cars that were parked just west of 1st 17 Street on Mineral by the gas station. And when 18 they started to come around the corner to form 19 their - - their - - the cruising formation or 20 whatever you want to call it, they blocked 21 traffic from coming north on 1st Street. I 22 observed the automobiles go to National Avenue. 23 By the way, by the time this whole group got 24 assembled, there was probably the better part of 25 100 cars. I can tell you for sure there was 00078 1 more. I - - I - - I counted. I counted up to 60 2 cars, and then I stopped counting, because there 3 was more than 60 cars, quite a few more. 4 I witnessed the cars go north to 5 National Avenue, turn left, go west. They went 6 up two blocks and turned left into the Walker's 7 Point neighborhood. Came back one block to the 8 south, turned left again. Came east down to 1st 9 Street. And when they came down to 1st Street, 10 again, turned towards the north. And when they 11 did, again, they blocked all of the traffic that 12 was going both north and south on 1st Street for 13 a considerable period of time, while the cars 14 went around the corners with the loud music 15 playing, people hanging out of the cars, you see 16 doors open with people swinging from the - - the 17 doors. This happened. These were patrons that 18 came from, that I personally saw come from Club 19 Sugar. 20 And I did this - - I did this not out 21 of spite. We started this meeting out. I was 22 very - - I was shocked and surprised that the 23 Sugar's attorneys accused me of trying to build a 24 case on Club Sugar. That's - - That's absolutely 25 the last thing that I did. And I - - I - - Well, 00079 1 I take offense to somebody from your firm saying 2 that I talked to a Sergeant from the Milwaukee 3 Police Department and told them to build a case 4 against Club Sugar. I have never done that. I 5 take great offense to that. 6 But because of the numerous objections 7 that I received, and e-mails, and the phone 8 calls, I went down there and I observed this in 9 person. And there is no shade of gray. There is 10 no - - I'm not sure where they came from. I saw 11 these people come from Club Sugar, get in their 12 cars, assemble this large cruising formation, and 13 disrupt the neighborhood, exactly as the 14 neighbors have described. I saw this in person. 15 You're welcome to ask me any question you'd like 16 to that. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. First, 18 questions by committee? 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What was the date of 20 the event? 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Easter Sunday. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Easter Sunday. 23 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Easter Sunday, 24 then the following Monday morning. 25 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Is that before or 00080 1 after the Bradley Tech that we've been talking 2 about? 3 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: It was - - I don't 4 remember the date of the Bradley Tech meeting. 5 Does somebody have it? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: It was before. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 8 committee? Alderman Witkowiak, as follow-up to 9 - - What - - What was the precursor for your 10 being out in the area that particular evening? 11 Had you gotten complaints about this 12 establishment or others that you were just 13 checking out? 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - Actually, 15 what - - I was on my way to the post office. I 16 had to - - It was - - It was Easter Sunday night. 17 I had got done visiting with my family. I had a 18 very busy day coming up on Monday. Had some mail 19 that had to go, and I decided to go down to the 20 post office. That was at - - That was at 8:30 at 21 night. And then I was going north on 1st Street. 22 It wasn't even my intent to go over there at the 23 time to observe it on that particular night. I 24 had thought, I got to do this at some point in 25 the future. I didn't - - I'll tell you what. If 00081 1 you would have asked me - - If you would have 2 asked me an hour before, do you think Club Sugar 3 is open. I'd have to say absolutely not. It's 4 - - It's Easter. Why would a club be open on a 5 night of Easter? So it had been my intention, 6 from all the complaints that I received, to go 7 check it out sometime in the near future, 8 unannounced. But I was just, by chance, I was 9 driving there that night, and I - - I couldn't 10 - - What were all these cars doing here? It's 11 - - It's Easter Sunday night. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Prior to that or 13 subsequent to that, have - - have you or your 14 office here received complaints? I know that 15 there are some that were part of the record here. 16 Have you - - Have you taken additional phone 17 calls complaining? 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, absolutely. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And - - 20 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I would - - I 21 would say I've probably taken - - 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Objection. 23 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: - - over the past 24 six months, 30 phone calls. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 00082 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Complaining about 2 this. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your objection will be 4 duly noted. But I'm going to make this question, 5 because there - - there is in the ordinary course 6 of business that an alderperson makes. And - - 7 And if the court is going to hang its hat on 8 that, so be it. Then every judge can face every 9 alderman, because I'll let them read through the 10 text. I'll go after them personally, and I mean, 11 personally to fight to oust them from office when 12 they go up for re-election. So, any judge can 13 read that. I will personally endorse any - - any 14 opponent of theirs, encourage it. And I'll get a 15 sling of other alderman to do that. So they can 16 take that for a threat, as well as - - But - - 17 Because there is - - There is what we do in the 18 course of normal business in terms of taking 19 complaints that we're dealing with firsthand. 20 Now, I think every alderman on this committee 21 realizes that in terms of with exceptions to the 22 hearsay, in terms of certain police reports, I'm 23 going to allow that back in this committee. 24 Other questions by committee? Questions, Mr. 25 Halbrooks, Mr. Maistelman? 00083 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. Alderman, 2 so your testimony is regarding only April 4th, 3 2010. Correct? 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: If that's the date 5 of Easter Sunday, yes. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And you indicated that 7 it was approximately 8:30? 8 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: So you weren't actually 10 your watch that closely, I presume. 11 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: What's the 12 relevance? 13 MR. HALBROOKS: So the answer is no? 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I said it was - - 15 I said it was approximately 8:30. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: So the - - Well, my 17 question is, and my question is regarding the - - 18 the vehicle that you testified about. If I said 19 that guy doesn't start until 9:30, would that 20 make sense? 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: If what doesn't 22 start? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: The guy that you 24 testified about that you had the conversation 25 with that was trying to prevent hell from 00084 1 breaking loose or whatever. 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't know what 3 time he started. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, I - - If I told 5 you he starts at 9:30, would that - - Is that 6 possible that that would fit into your timeline? 7 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - I don't 8 understand the relevance. Are you trying to say 9 that I wasn't there? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I'm asking you 11 about the - - whether your recollection of 8:30 12 is - - Because the guy doesn't start working 13 until 9:30, whether it could have been 9:30 when 14 you were there. 15 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't know. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now, with regard 17 to your concern about Sergeant. The - - Nobody 18 actually said that you said that, made those 19 statements. The statements were that the 20 Sergeant made those statements. Correct? 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: No. Somebody said 22 that I said that. Somebody from your firm said 23 that I told the Sergeant from the Milwaukee 24 Police Department to build a case against Sugar. 25 I have never done that. 00085 1 MR. HALBROOKS: But the Sergeant said 2 that. I - - I understand that. The Sergeant 3 said that. And that would be the testimony. You 4 could ask him later. But that - - I just want to 5 make sure that that's what the representation 6 was, the Sergeant said that. Nobody ever had a 7 conversation with you about it. 8 Now how many people did you see - - 9 MR. MAISTELMAN: He has to answer the 10 question. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, I think he did. 12 How many people did you see going into Club Sugar 13 that night? 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: When I was driving 15 east on Mineral - - Well, there was like a line 16 outside. It was almost like either they were 17 waiting to get in or the place was full, one of 18 the two. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. How many people 20 were in the line? 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Probably 30. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So your 23 testimony is that you witnessed, when you came 24 back, about 100 cars? 25 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: The better part of 00086 1 a 100, I'd say. I actually counted when they - - 2 when they organized their formation and started 3 taking off, I counted up to 60 cars, and then I 4 just stopped counting after that. So it was the 5 better part of 100 cars. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So if I 7 told you that that night a total of 75 people 8 went through the doors at Sugar, does that - - 9 would that make sense then? 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - I don't 11 understand the relevance. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, if - - if there 13 were 100 cars, certainly there were car - - more 14 cars than there were people there that night. 15 Right? 16 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I actually saw 17 people come from Club Sugar, as I testified, get 18 in their cars and start to make this formation. 19 Now they could have called other people to come 20 in and join the formation. That's a strong 21 possibility. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. All right. 23 That's fine. So it - - It could have been other 24 people besides the customers of Sugar joining in, 25 and it would have needed to be if there were 100. 00087 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: If your number, 2 that 75 people came through the doors correct, 3 and how do I believe that? 4 MR. HALBROOKS: I don't - - I'm just 5 asking questions. Okay. 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: You're stating a 7 fact. You're saying that 75 people came through 8 the door? 9 MR. HALBROOKS: No, I said, "If." 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Where's your 11 proof? How do I know it wasn't 150 people. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Here's the thing. I'm 13 just asking questions. 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: And there will be 16 testimony later, and I just wanted to ask if - - 17 if - - I said, "If it was the case there were 75 18 people and you counted 100 cars" - - I have no 19 reason to doubt you counted 100 or more or around 20 that number. There would have had to be people 21 coming from elsewhere. 22 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I said that I 23 stopped counting at 60, and there were several 24 cars after that. So I said it was the better 25 part of 100 cars. 00088 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. I'm not - - I'm 2 not challenging your testimony about that. I'm 3 just asking you, if there were - - 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I believe you are. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: What? 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I believe you are. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, here's 8 what - - I don't mind your raising questions, but 9 I want some basis to the questions. I don't - - 10 When you start creating numbers fictitiously and 11 start saying, "if 75," I mean, I would have 12 expected that that would have been the number 13 that you somehow had proof of. I mean, if that's 14 - - Is - - 15 MR. HALBROOKS: I thought - - 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. I, as the 17 Chair, have the ability to coopt you, and I'm 18 stopping you from your testimony. 19 Mr. Pliss. 20 THE APPLICANT: Yeah. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: On this particular 22 evening on Easter Sunday, do you have an 23 indication as to how many people went through 24 your doors? 25 THE APPLICANT: I have a - - I have a 00089 1 number of how many people left. I do - - and 2 then I - - We take a - - We have a - - We have a 3 head count at the end of the night when people 4 leave. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And at the end of the 6 night for you is when? 7 THE APPLICANT: Any - - On Easter 8 Sunday, I believe it was around 12:45. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So at 12:45 you're 10 roughly having an exodus of - - 11 THE APPLICANT: 75 people. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: At that time. 13 THE APPLICANT: At that time. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So - - I'll get to you 16 one moment here if I may, Alderwoman. So if the 17 Alderman testified to seeing a number of other 18 individuals here, my question for you as a 19 follow-up is do you believe that you had more 20 than 75 customers in the duration of the entire 21 night? 22 THE APPLICANT: I - - It's hard for me 23 to say that, I mean, without - - without my - - 24 the documentation in front of me. It's hard to 25 say that. I - - We document all - - We document 00090 1 all of our numbers, but I know I'm - - On Easter, 2 because it was - - It was a Sunday. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you only document 4 the exodus, or do you get clicks of people coming 5 in? 6 THE APPLICANT: Clicks coming in and 7 out. But I remember on that particular night, 8 our crowd - - A lot of our crowd left early. Our 9 crowd leaves anywhere from 10:30 on. So, and a 10 lot of them have their 11 - - You know, a lot of 11 them have parents that enforce curfews that they 12 have to be home by 11. Some by 12. Some by one. 13 So they leave at different - - They'll - - 14 They'll leave at different times. So - - But we 15 get a good - - We like to get a good count at the 16 end of the night, once our music is off, we like 17 to get a good count. Because that would be how 18 many people are going, so that we know how many 19 people are on the streets. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So it would not be 21 unusual to say that there were far in excess of 22 100 people that would have been there at your 23 place that night. 24 THE APPLICANT: I wouldn't say "far in 25 excess," but it's a possibility that there were - 00091 1 - there were more than 100 people. Also, keep in 2 mind that these people don't come one to a car, 3 either. A lot of them don't have cars, so they 4 come four in a car. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm not - - I'm - - 6 That's not my - - 7 THE APPLICANT: But, yeah. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's not my question 9 for you. 10 THE APPLICANT: Okay. I apologize. 11 But, yeah, I mean, it - - it's a possibility that 12 there were more than 100 people throughout the 13 night, but not at the end of the night. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, do you - - You 15 said you also do a count of folks on the way in? 16 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You don't have a 18 compilation of how many came into your club that 19 night? 20 THE APPLICANT: I - - 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you just know the 22 exodus of exactly how many people left right at 23 the very end of it? 24 THE APPLICANT: To be honest, that's no 25 problem. Me, personally, I pay more attention 00092 1 to, because I know that that's how many people 2 are on the street, and then we calculate how long 3 it takes for them to clear the area. And we 4 clear the area in a six block radius, we try to 5 make sure everybody's gone. So if I know that 75 6 people are left, and they were gone in seven 7 minutes time, I know that we're doing a good job 8 getting people out of there and getting them 9 moving and getting them out of the neighborhood. 10 So that's why I keep an eye on that number more 11 than I do the - - the other number. My security 12 is in charge of the number throughout the night 13 to make sure, you know, we're not going over 14 capacity or nothing like that. I never really 15 even reached - - We've never even come close to 16 our capacity. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And what is your 18 capacity? 19 THE APPLICANT: Three hundred. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 21 Alderwoman Coggs? 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No, you asked the 23 questions. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 25 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 00093 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: A follow-up on that 3 quickly. So for your own purposes you keep track 4 of the end of the night, but - - but you - - You 5 can - - You have personal memory, you don't have 6 your papers in front of you, you have a personal 7 memory that Easter Sunday 75 people were there at 8 12:45 p.m. 9 THE APPLICANT: To be honest, I have a 10 - - I have a memory of the whole Easter Sunday 11 night, because I have - - It sticks out in my 12 mind, honestly, because the news called me and 13 wanted to do an interview, and then, our Alderman 14 was on the news. So I remember that night pretty 15 vividly. How many people came through the doors, 16 I couldn't exactly tell you. I know it wasn't a 17 great night. That's all I can tell you. I can 18 tell you how much money we made, but I can't tell 19 you exactly how many people came through the 20 door. 21 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. So you - - You 22 don't have exact numbers on people in the 23 building, but - - 24 THE APPLICANT: I have them. I just 25 don't have them here. 00094 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Right. 2 THE APPLICANT: Or in my memory. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: In my experience in 4 deal - - in my district and throughout the City, 5 especially with clubs like this, especially when 6 you're dealing with the teenage crowd, there's 7 often almost as many people outside as inside the 8 building for a variety of reasons. You probably 9 understand that as well as I do, you know. So 10 are you - - When you do - - You count people 11 coming in and out of the building, but are you 12 ever counting people on the street associated 13 with the people coming in and out of the 14 building? 15 THE APPLICANT: I don't understand the 16 question. You said - - Earlier in the statement 17 you just said that there was - - there's as many 18 people outside as inside. Do you mean by 19 counting them? 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I don't know. That 21 night I wasn't there, but it's been my experience 22 that clubs of this kind, especially with teen 23 nights, you often, because of the teen night 24 somewhere, you have people that don't enter the 25 teen night. 00095 1 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But hang around for 3 the scene. 4 THE APPLICANT: Correct. Well - - 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: There's been - - Now I 6 haven't had testimony about that on - - on this 7 club, but there's certainly been other clubs of 8 this sort where that's a phenomena, where 9 teenagers sort of just hang out in the area but 10 not always in the building. So I'm asking you if 11 you're sure that there were - - if you're sure 12 that every teenager that night was in your 13 building and not just hanging out on those 14 streets? 15 THE APPLICANT: I can't say that. I 16 mean, I don't know. We don't - - We don't allow 17 people to hang out. Once they - - If they can't 18 get in for whatever reason, whether it's dress 19 code or no ID, we shoo them off pretty quickly. 20 I mean, there's customers here who can testify. 21 We don't - - I mean, we go - - Like I said, we do 22 a - - we use like a six block radius that we use. 23 We have a couple streets marked. We have 24 security driving around, making sure nobody's 25 hanging out in the neighborhoods, so. 00096 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You do monitor the six 2 block area, but you don't have a count of that, 3 necessarily. 4 THE APPLICANT: Not in the six block 5 area, no. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. But there - - 7 You would agree that there's often more people in 8 the six block area interacting with the people 9 that - - coming in and out of your club, than 10 there are actually coming out of your club. 11 THE APPLICANT: I - - I don't 12 understand that. 13 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You can't give me an 14 exact numbers on Easter, I wouldn't expect you 15 to, right. But you can say that in general 16 there's often more people outside your club 17 interacting with the people coming in and out of 18 your club, than there are, than - - than just the 19 people coming in and out of the club. 20 THE APPLICANT: I don't - - I really 21 don't understand that question, because there's - 22 - there's other establishments in the area, so, 23 yeah, I would imagine there would be other people 24 in the area that aren't our customers, correct. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. I do - - 00097 1 Mr. Pliss, how long have you had this license? 2 THE APPLICANT: Three years. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Three years. And 4 during the entire time this has been a - - a 5 public dance hall license? 6 THE APPLICANT: Correct, yes. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Did you come before 8 this committee, when you first came before this 9 committee, you came under the guise of being a 10 Christian-type place. Is that - - 11 THE APPLICANT: No, we included that we 12 were going to do a Christian night in our 13 business plan. And I don't know if it was the 14 state of the economy or what. All the churches 15 decided that they wanted to do their youth nights 16 at their facilities. So we had a hard time 17 getting that going. Had a couple people approach 18 me about it, and nothing ever really came to 19 fruition. And we amended that part of it at the 20 last, I believe it was two years ago when we were 21 here. We amended that part. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How did you amend it? 23 THE APPLICANT: We amended it by taking 24 it out of the original business plan. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So you submitted a 00098 1 business plan with the - - Do you have a 2 recollection of that, Alderman Witkowiak? 3 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: No, I don't, Mr. 4 Chairman. 5 THE APPLICANT: I don't - - Yeah, we 6 were here - - We were here about two years. 7 MR. MAISTELMAN: We had that 8 conversation. 9 THE APPLICANT: There was - - Remember, 10 there was like - - We were talking about soap, 11 water and soap and bubbles, pool parties. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah, I mean, I - - I 13 just don't know, and I just inquired with the 14 License Division to see if they - - if they have 15 copies of - - I mean, you - - Do you keep a full 16 file - - file of this was submitted three years 17 ago, this was submitted last year? Is that - - I 18 don't know. That's why I asked. 19 THE APPLICANT: Two years ago. 20 MR. PFAFF: The retention schedule for 21 these are that we would keep the current - - the 22 current license. This isn't like alcohol where 23 we keep six years in our office. These would be 24 in City records. However, if he did submit a 25 plan of operation last year, we could pull that 00099 1 from our file in our office. I don't have it 2 with me here now. 3 THE APPLICANT: It was from two years 4 ago. 5 MR. PFAFF: Then that would already be 6 in City records. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 8 MR. MAISTELMAN: Can we get it on the 9 record? 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, I - - I mean, we 11 just - - I just - - It was an inquiry. Because I 12 have a recollection of when you first came in, 13 and pardon the term, and I don't want to suggest 14 otherwise here, but I just want to say, this was 15 promised as the wholesome place where we're going 16 to have, you know, the Brownies, the - - the 17 Explorer troops and the good Christian kids 18 coming playing Christian music. And that's 19 really - - I may be - - I am exaggerating that 20 for effect, but that is literally the gist of 21 what was promised at the time. This was going to 22 be goody two shoes that was - - that was going to 23 24 - - to be coming forward here. 25 And, you know, and, I mean, it just - - 00100 1 It's just an aside. I'm going to be requesting a 2 change of legislation that would require a format 3 for these type of - - of places, because we don't 4 have it. We don't have - - We have it for other 5 types of venues or other types of licenses, and 6 for public dance halls we don't have a format. 7 And so, we can't - - We don't have a retention of 8 a license saying that I'm going to do A, and then 9 not do A. But that's an aside. Did you have 10 additional questions, Mr. Halbrooks? 11 MR. HALBROOKS: I have a number of 12 things out there, if I may try to clean up. I 13 was asking the Alderman about the - - the Easter 14 Sunday night, and then we got onto the 75, and 15 that led up to Alderman Kovac's question. So if 16 I could take - - As long as the Chair understands 17 that - - that the conversation about the 18 Christian dance music, that was a conversation 19 two years ago where they disavowed that and said, 20 no, we're not doing that anymore, and here's why. 21 And he explained it the same words almost exactly 22 as he did two years ago. 23 Now, I want to make sure you understand 24 what Alderman Kovac was asking you. Did you 25 understand what he was asking you about other 00101 1 individuals coming into the neighborhood, hanging 2 around, just because of - - of Sugar, not 3 associated with other clubs, but people are just 4 there to be in the Sugar party in the streets? 5 THE APPLICANT: Yes, I understand that. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And are people allowed 7 to be in the streets and hang around if they're 8 not customers of Sugar? 9 THE APPLICANT: No, not if they're not 10 inside. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: And what do your 12 security guards do with regard to that? 13 THE APPLICANT: Our security has 14 basically become pests, in a nice way, without 15 being confrontational. They - - They shoo them 16 along. They stay on them until, you know, if 17 it's - - If it's a group of five that couldn't 18 get in because of dress code, they stay on them 19 until they're in their cars and they leave the 20 neighborhood. I have - - We have guys driving 21 around in cars, and they follow them to their 22 cars, wherever they're parked. If they're parked 23 on, you know, 1st Street, 2nd Street. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Those are customers. 25 His question was about people who aren't 00102 1 customers, who come there to hang around because 2 of the effect of Sugar. Are you aware of any of 3 those type of people? 4 THE APPLICANT: Yeah. Yeah. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: During the hours of the 6 club or afterward. 7 THE APPLICANT: Right after, actually. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. All right. If I 9 could just get back and just finish up briefly 10 with the - - 11 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 13 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I want to ask a 14 follow-up. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 16 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I just want to - - 17 Your question - - So you may have - - I may have 18 misinterpreted how you said it, but you said that 19 they go around saying that no one can be in the 20 street unless they're Club Sugar patrons, which I 21 don't think was right. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: No, that isn't what I 23 meant. 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What did you mean? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: If - - They're not 00103 1 patrolling for people that were there or not, 2 people that are coming there because there is 3 Club Sugar. Like we've heard with other 4 instances where they're there to pick up the 5 girls after the show. That isn't - - There 6 doesn't seem to be that effect. 7 ALDERMAN KOVAC: That's - - You asked 8 him that question. He answered it. I just want 9 to be clear. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. No - - No one is 11 allowed to hang out in the streets, and we don't 12 believe there is the kind of problem that you 13 were asking about in this instance. 14 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: But, well, after - - 16 except after the club closes, and we'll get to 17 that. 18 ALDERMAN KOVAC: All right. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: There is definitely a 20 problem, or there was. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please, continue with 22 your questioning of Alderman Witkowiak, then. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. Alderman, I 24 just - - just a couple to finish up. The - - 25 Since the public meeting, the concerns from 00104 1 constituents have dropped off, haven't they? 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I am not aware 3 that they have. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: You've gotten more - - 5 You've gotten more calls from constituents in the 6 last - - in the couple of weekends since the 7 meeting? 8 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I mean, I can't 9 answer that. I'd have to go back and look at our 10 - - at our phone call logs and statistics. I - - 11 I can't say that - - that it's increased or 12 decreased. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: So the test - - So the 14 calls you were testifying about were all before 15 the meeting. 16 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Most of them were, 17 yes 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. And the - - the 19 concerns that - - that were raised in these e- 20 mails and that you got, did - - Before the public 21 meeting, how did you share them with Club Sugar? 22 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Through - - my 23 legislative assistant contacted the law offices 24 of Michael Maistelman, who is on record as 25 representing the applicant, and we shared 00105 1 information with, like I said, it's your office. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: And when was that? 3 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't know. 4 You'd have to ask Mr. McGuire. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: It was - - It was 7 a considerable length of time before this 8 hearing. Maybe three months, 9 MR. HALBROOKS: What was that? 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Three months 11 before this hearing. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: And you - - You 13 indicated on the TV that it was only in the last 14 six weeks before the TV interview that you 15 started getting the complaints? 16 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Escalating in the 17 last six weeks. We - - We had gotten - - We had 18 gotten spotty complaints here and there, but 19 nothing rising to this occasion. In the last 20 several weeks - - 21 MR. HALBROOKS: But you didn't say 22 that. 23 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: - - before Easter 24 the - - the calls had escalated. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: So - - But you didn't 00106 1 say on TV that it had been ramping up. You said, 2 "I hadn't had complaints until six weeks ago." 3 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't know. Did 5 - - Did somebody say on TV, also, that it was the 6 tactics of the Milwaukee Police Department and 7 the Alderman's office? 8 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 9 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Is that something 10 that was said on TV? 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 12 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I read something 13 about that. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: We - - We don't have 15 the TV they're referring to on record. So - - 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: He's got it here, if he 17 wants to play - - 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: What - - What's the 19 problem? 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If it's his side, he 21 wants to use his time, that's fine. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Alderman, that's a very 23 good question. The foundation is the night that 24 the Alderman was testifying about is on this 25 video, and you should see it. And you should see 00107 1 the police standing around with their hands in 2 their pockets, and the behavior that is in the 3 videotape, and then compare it to the testimony 4 that we just had. So I'd like you to watch it, 5 please. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: So it - - So it's 7 not the news? 8 MR. HALBROOKS: It is the news. It is 9 the news, and it's from the night that the 10 Alderman just testified about. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Easter? 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah. 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Easter Sunday 14 night. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. That's 16 fine. That's fine. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: She even identifies it 18 as a Sunday night in the video. 19 (Whereupon the tape was played.) 20 "Chrystina?" 21 Chrystina Head (Fox 6 News): "Well, 22 there's actually an event happening here tonight, 23 which is very rare for a Sunday. But people who 24 live in the area complain of hearing sounds of 25 cruising, loud music, and a lot of profanity when 00108 1 the club closes each night on the weekends. But 2 owners of the club say Club Sugar is not the 3 reason for weekend disturbances. It's one of 4 only a few in Milwaukee. A club that caters to 5 young adults between the ages of 17 and 20." 6 Alderman Witkowiak: "The club doesn't 7 serve alcohol. It's - - It's basically a teen 8 club." 9 Chrystina Head: "In the three years 10 it's been open there have been few problems. But 11 lately, there have been a number of complaints 12 about Club Sugar." 13 Alderman Witkowiak: "Up until about 14 six - seven weeks ago, everything was pretty 15 quiet over there. And now recently, in the last 16 six weeks, there's been incidents of cruising and 17 basic mayhem when the place closes at night." 18 Chrystina Head: "12th District 19 Alderman James Witkowiak says his office has 20 received a number of complaints about Club 21 Sugar." 22 Alderman Witkowiak: "Basically, they 23 - - Unless the police come and disperse the 24 crowd, they don't leave." 25 Chrystina Head: "Owners of the club 00109 1 say it is not and has not been a problem. In a 2 statement Club Sugar owners say, 'Sugar provides 3 a safe environment for its patrons and disagrees 4 with the tactics Alderman Witkowiak and the 5 Milwaukee Police Department are using to close 6 the establishment.'" 7 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 9 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Who - - Who authored 10 that statement? 11 THE APPLICANT: My counsel. 12 MR. MAISTELMAN: Which one? 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, did you 14 have additional questions? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Alderman, are you aware 16 that the police have been setting up cameras, 17 pole cams, down the street from Sugar for the 18 last couple of months? 19 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And have you seen any 21 videotapes from those pole cams? 22 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: No. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: And where are pole cams 24 deployed in your district, do you know, or why 25 they're deployed? 00110 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I do not - - I do 2 not know where they're deployed, and I don't know 3 what causes them to be deployed. I have never 4 - - I have never requested for, or asked or 5 ordered them to be deployed anyplace. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Nothing further. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: At this point part of 8 housekeeping. Alderman Hamilton would move to 9 make the submission of the two tapes provided by 10 - - by Mr. Halbrooks part of our official record 11 in this proceeding, and hearing no objections to 12 that, so ordered. 13 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I just - - 14 I have one question that I would like to get - - 15 And I want to ask counsel this question. The 16 news report from, I think it was, Fox 6, showing 17 Club Sugar? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Yes. 19 MS. SCHRIMPF: Is that what it was 20 supposed to be showing? 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah, that was what the 22 report was about. 23 MS. SCHRIMPF: All right. Do you know 24 the date that that videotape was purporting to 25 show Club Sugar and the time it was purported to 00111 1 show Club Sugar? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm not bringing - - 3 Attorney, if you have a rough estimate, we'll 4 take the rough estimate. Mr. Pliss, do you 5 have - - 6 THE APPLICANT: Easter Sunday, she was 7 there reporting. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It was Easter Sunday. 9 Okay. 10 MS. SCHRIMPF: But you don't know the 11 time. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The time was - - on the 13 news was 9:40 - - 9:59. It was the ten o'clock 14 news. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Recorded earlier. 16 MR. MAISTELMAN: The reporter is here 17 if you'd like to put her under oath. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah, she's right here. 19 MS. SCHRIMPF: It would be helpful. 20 MR. MAISTELMAN: Do you want to put her 21 under oath? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to - - I'm 23 going to assume it was either the - - the five or 24 six o'clock news, because that's when - - 25 MS. SCHRIMPF: Well you have to come 00112 1 forward - - 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, I'm not going to 3 - - Mister - - Mr. Schrimpf, I don't believe it's 4 relevant. It was that day. 5 MS. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It was that day. It 7 was daylight. How about that? No, no. There 8 was some earlier footage from daylight, and then 9 it was later at night. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, that was probably 11 at ten o'clock. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Can anybody tell me the 13 relevance of other than the fact that we all 14 agree that it was that day, whether knowing what 15 time it showed? 16 MS. SCHRIMPF: Well, Mr. Chairman, I 17 think what Mr. Halbrooks is trying to do is to 18 discredit the testimony of those witnesses who 19 said that at approximately 8:30 or 9:30 on Easter 20 Sunday there was this cruising episode that was 21 testified to. Because, obviously, there is no 22 cruising episode shown in that footage from Fox 23 6. So it's helpful to know when that was cut. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: I - - I brought it up 25 because the Alderman said something different 00113 1 than what he had said in the tape. He said, 2 well, I said it was ramping. No, he didn't. He 3 said there were no problems before that night. 4 That's why I introduced it. I also introduced 5 it. Then when I bring it in, you can see there 6 are - - Remember, one thing that we haven't 7 talked about yet is that Alderman Donovan came to 8 this public meeting, ranted about the use of 9 police resources. You see the police officers 10 standing there with their hands in their pockets. 11 It was that night, and I - - I think that that 12 came off of the possibly the nine o'clock news. 13 So I don't - - I don't know what time it was that 14 she recorded that. I don't think it's relevant 15 for any purposes that I put it in for. But it 16 was that Sunday night. 17 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman - - 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Head, if you want 19 to come forward here, why don't you do that, 20 please? 21 We actually - - 22 MR. HALBROOKS: We'd be under oath. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have to put you 24 under oath. 25 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 00114 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, is there 2 - - Is there a way the Chair can compel her if 3 she's in the room? How about that? 4 MS. SCHRIMPF: Well, no, I don't think 5 you can compel her. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Well, then, 7 there you go. I mean, it's okay. Hold on. Hold 8 on one second. I can't - - I - - I asked him a 9 question, and if we can't compel you, that's one 10 thing. But I - - I can't hear from you over 11 there either. It's either got to be under oath 12 on the record here, which means on the microphone 13 where you're sworn in or not. No compelling? 14 MS. SCHRIMPF: No compelling. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. You made the 16 request. I asked her. She said she doesn't want 17 to. We're done with it. Okay. 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your - - Alderman 20 Witkowiak. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I could, just to 22 correct the record now, Attorney Halbrooks said I 23 said there were no complaints up until six weeks 24 ago. You just watched the footage, and I said 25 there were a few complaints until six weeks ago. 00115 1 If you want to watch it again? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We'll accept 3 that. Thank you. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: No, that's not what you 5 said. I don't accept that. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It doesn't matter. 7 MR. MAISTELMAN: The record speaks for 8 itself. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It doesn't matter. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: It's in the record. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It's in the record. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Whether it 13 is, it isn't - - 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, you can 15 start calling forward your witnesses. I'm 16 allotting 21 minutes. I have eight minutes for 17 approximately the time of the video played with 18 the first submission. And about an additional 19 minute time for your questioning. And I'm sorry 20 if - - My allotment is this much. If he raises 21 the question and you want to clarify the record 22 on your time, that's your time. That was on your 23 time, and then there was the additional video 24 that just came in that was about 45 seconds. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm going to do this in 00116 1 a different order than I otherwise might, because 2 of the new time limits, and so I'm going to try 3 to get all of this in front of you. I have some 4 - - So - - 5 (Whereupon Alderman Zielinski leaves 6 the table.) 7 MR. HALBROOKS: Alderman Zielinski is 8 not going to vote on this? 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, Alderman Zielinski 10 is done for here. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: At least in this 13 hearing. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm going to hand you 15 actually kind of four pages of a Facebook page. 16 Now, the - - The graphic that's on the upper 17 left, I printed out in full color. But I have 18 some copies for you - - I'm not sure any of you 19 will be concerned, because it's about Alderman 20 Davis' district. 21 But this is about this group organizing 22 a cruising event for June 13th, Freaknik. 23 MR. MAISTELMAN: Do you have a copy for 24 Alderman Witkowiak, please? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: This is So Good 00117 1 Entertainment, and then there are two individuals 2 I want you to start focusing on. So Good 3 Entertainment, which is an individual named - - 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, Mr. Halbrooks, 5 while you're pausing here and having your 6 discussion, Alderman Hamilton would move to make 7 these two documents part of our official record 8 in this proceedings, and hearing no objections, 9 so ordered. Go ahead. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: The individual in So 11 Good is an individual that goes by his Internet 12 handle of Perry Man of Steel, and I have some e- 13 mail chains that come from Facebook, with a 14 number of comments which go back to - - If you'll 15 look at page five, page five has - - This is a 16 group of individuals in Milwaukee who, based out 17 of - - out of a website group on Facebook "414 18 TRAFFIC (WHERE TRAFFIC GONE BE @)" And I'll hand 19 out a number of pages that I pulled down from 20 Facebook. Now none of these - - The first page 21 is the description which you can look up in "414 22 Traffic" and find that quite easily. We did it a 23 little while ago just on a search. 24 And then I - - I didn't pull up - - 25 What you will be able to find if you go on there 00118 1 is a long list of several pages of conversations. 2 But, for instance, the other individual besides 3 this Perry Man of Steel is this Decembers Veryown 4 Douglas. And so each night - - If you looked at 5 the entire Facebook you would see that there are 6 a number of gathering places around the City. I 7 pulled down the ones that have to deal 8 specifically with Sugar and what they're going to 9 do with regard to Sugar on those various nights. 10 And so you can see the - - the references to the 11 nights we've been talking about, including the 12 April 3rd, where they - - they talk about they're 13 going to be recording it all, and acting silly. 14 Make sure you act silly. They talk about when 15 they're going to leave Sugar, when they're going 16 to cause trouble at Sugar. 17 And so, with regard to how this gets 18 organized, and I think if you look even at the 19 last page there where these individuals are 20 talking about what they're going to do, how 21 they're going to close Sugar down. We did not 22 know at the night of the Bradley Tech meeting 23 what was going on. When all these people 24 starting showing up after hours and said what is 25 going - - The security guard goes up to him, what 00119 1 is going on here? They said, well, it's on 2 Facebook. Go look on Facebook. And so, sure 3 enough, we did, and we immediately then went and 4 shared this with the Captain of the District and 5 the District Attorneys who showed up to the 6 meeting, and asked for an investigation into 7 these individuals. We were informed they were 8 well aware of Perry Man of Steel around town. 9 And he is - - works on promotions at Club El 10 Babalu. 11 So what has happened and what you can 12 see, and especially if your - - if you go onto 13 the - - onto the site, you can see what is night 14 after night an organized effort of cruising in 15 the City of Milwaukee. Now, if I may, possibly - 16 - If we could - - I have one more disk. On this 17 site I was able to - - I wanted to - - So I 18 recorded off Utube the videos of cruising 19 cruising, which is actually on Mill Road, but it 20 does so closely described the behavior that we've 21 heard about tonight from these people in this 22 group, talking about what they're going to do. 23 So I would ask that if you could put it on and - 24 - and play it one time. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure we can. But first 00120 1 we'll have Alderman Kovac move to make the packet 2 that was sent to David Halbrooks from Sean Pliss 3 dated April 22nd, 2010 on the cover sheet part of 4 our official record in this proceeding. Hearing 5 no objections, so ordered. There is also a 6 submitted packet where the top line is in bold 7 indicated under the title, "Basic Info," and then 8 "414 Traffic (Where Traffic Gone Be @)," as part 9 of our official record in this proceeding, and 10 Alderman Kovac would so move that, as well. 11 Hearing no objections to that, so ordered. Okay. 12 MR. MAISTELMAN: Thank you, Mr. 13 Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you want to continue 15 on - - 16 MR. HALBROOKS: If I may, and you can 17 just - - It will start out in the daylight, and 18 then it will get dark as time goes along. But I 19 think that when you consider the cruising 20 discussion that we've had, that the Alderman has 21 talked about, this is a group that's promoting 22 itself along these lines. Now, what we have done 23 since the meeting. The number of the 24 complainants at the meeting did not live east of 25 1st Avenue. They lived west. 00121 1 (Whereupon the tape was played.) 2 MR. HALBROOKS: So immediately after 3 the meeting what we did was have the security 4 guards posted west of 1st Avenue, and as they saw 5 individuals leaving their cars, get into the 6 street, they were told not to enter Club Sugar 7 not to park here. So one of the suggestions that 8 night was have your people stop parking there. 9 And that was done immediately, and I think that's 10 one of the reasons why - - You know, the 11 testimony that since the meeting it's tapered 12 off. It's tapered off because we cut off the 13 problem in terms of where it was occurring and 14 where the people live, and moved it east. Now, I 15 think that with regard to Alderman Witkowiak's 16 comments, there are going to be, you know, issues 17 with people getting in the club, parking east of 18 1st Avenue and getting in. That's probably going 19 to be the case at any time with opening. 20 But with regard to the neighborhood, we 21 solved it immediately, and I think that the fact 22 that there aren't people here, that the police 23 chose not to object. The police attended the 24 meeting. The City Attorney attended the meeting. 25 And since, after we met with them and dealt with 00122 1 what the problems were that particular night 2 after we showed them this information, they have 3 decided not to appear and object. And again, we 4 are aware, and I think the Chair is aware that we 5 requested videos from the pole cam. We were told 6 that the only time they make videos of the 7 surveillance video is when something occurs. So 8 they had nothing at the couple months trying to 9 watch, so we - - we really think that with regard 10 to the behavior that was complained of, the 11 behavior that you're going to see coming up in 12 the next few minutes as it starts to get dark 13 here, is what happened and what happens at Sugar 14 and what was happening, and what has happened. 15 And these people clearly seem to be aligned with 16 El Babalu. And you'll read through the documents 17 that I've provided. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Where did you obtain 19 these documents from or this videotape? 20 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm going to ask Mr. 21 Pliss to take over. He can provide that 22 infomation. 23 THE APPLICANT: When we were trying to 24 figure out exactly where this was coming from, 25 because, again, as you heard in testimony, this 00123 1 occurs half hour to an hour after we're closing. 2 So we're trying to figure out, okay, where is 3 this coming from? Why are they, you know. So 4 when we asked, they said it's all over Facebook. 5 Look at Facebook. They're posting on Facebook. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So these are videos 7 that are attached to a Facebook site for this 8 gentleman here? 9 You downloaded it and then put it on 10 - - on a disk. Is that correct? 11 THE APPLICANT: Correct. So we did 12 some investigating and tried to find this, you 13 know, traffic pages are Facebook pages with the 14 word "traffic" in it or Milwaukee traffic, 15 whatever. And came - - We came to find this one, 16 and then we followed a couple links from the 17 Administrator of this, and that's how we got - - 18 that's how we go the two individuals that are the 19 administrators of these websites and these 20 coordinators of this. 21 There's a lot more to the Facebook 22 stuff than, you know, we were able to print out, 23 but these are examples of what they coordinate 24 and how they coordinate it. Sugar was named on 25 multiple accounts as a sort of - - That's where 00124 1 they're going. They'll meet at the Domes, come 2 to Sugar, and then they'll go back to the Domes, 3 and then go wherever from there. They - - They 4 seem - - They like to create traffic patterns, so 5 cruising, and this is basically what the cruise 6 is - - Traffic is cruising. They call it 7 "traffic." 8 MR. HALBROOKS: In and around the time 9 that Alderman Witkowiak identifies it, I would 10 indicate, if I could just have one moment of 11 personal privilege. There is a - - On April 21st 12 that April 21st that doesn't have anything to do 13 with this case, but maybe me and one other person 14 might be concerned about. So I put it in there 15 just so one of you would be aware of it. It's 16 not necessarily just - - just Sugar. But if you 17 - - If one of you are able to pull up the 18 Facebook and we can maybe put that on the screen, 19 you'll see that it - - this literally goes on all 20 through the City. 21 MR. MAISTELMAN: I can e-mail it to you 22 right now. You can access it from your 23 computers. I don't know if you want to. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: But, ironically, since 25 we spotlit this to the police, they do not seem 00125 1 to have, after this April 16th, 17th weekend, did 2 not seem to have come back to Club Sugar after 3 the public meeting and after we went to the 4 police with this information. So they do clearly 5 seem to be the - - the website was updated 6 through May 4th about where they were going, and 7 I gave you the news that on - - on Senior Skip 8 Day they did big numbers, is what they report as 9 the news. 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Have you made any 13 efforts to get the site shut down? 14 MR. HALBROOKS: We re - - We've 15 reported - - We've referred it to the police. I 16 talked to the Dis - - 17 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: On Facebook there's 18 an actual application that any regular citizen 19 can do to challenge the existence of a site. And 20 the - - The administrators of Facebook have the 21 option and ability to eliminate that site. Not 22 that they wouldn't go and create a new one. But 23 I'm just asking if - - 24 MR. HALBROOKS: No. 25 THE APPLICANT: I wasn't aware of that. 00126 1 Yeah, okay. 2 MR. MAISTELMAN: But we did turn it 3 over to the police and the DA. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: And I talked to the DA, 5 and she said they're still investigating. We - - 6 Our security guard works with - - around the 7 City. Talked to police on the other town who 8 already knew, said, you know, they were well 9 aware of this guy and he was, you know, as far as 10 messing with him would be significant, so. 11 Pardon? 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Were there other 13 questions committee members have so far as this 14 evidence? 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I do. I have a 16 question. I just want to make sure I follow the 17 facts and logic that are being presented. So, 18 you're essentially acknowledging that there has 19 been a problem, and I think the question you 20 asked before of your client acknowledges that, as 21 well. What you're saying that it's not your 22 problem, it's - - it's Facebook's problem. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Oh, no. It - - It - - 24 We didn't know what the problem was. I mean, the 25 problem is that I think that - - that what 00127 1 happens is the cruisers show up. The people from 2 Sugar get out. They were joining into it. So we 3 changed the closing time to not conflict, and 4 then you'll see - - Then they actually sent 5 somebody there to start a fight. So they 6 actually refer to that in there. They refer to 7 the news report. Let's get out of there before 8 the news come. So they were actually staying one 9 step ahead of us before we even knew who they 10 were. Once we knew who they were, we solved it. 11 And I - - I think that - - I'll just go back to 12 Alderman's statement - - Alderman Hamilton's very 13 profound statement that what do you do when you 14 find a problem? When we found the problem, it 15 got stopped. And there has been nobody here to 16 testify about a problem after that public 17 meeting, after this was all laid out, and after 18 we figured out what was going on. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Halbrooks, I 20 actually appreciate those comments you just made, 21 because my next question was going to be, why 22 aren't you dealing with this? And now you say 23 you are. The problem is you say you're dealing 24 with this, and your time frame is less than a 25 month ago, since when you dealt with it and now. 00128 1 So it - - I'll give you a very good - - I'll give 2 you an example what's on my mind. You mentioned 3 April 21st, when they said they were going to be 4 cruising on my street, actually. I didn't notice 5 it, but I can't remember where I was that night 6 right now. 7 But this did come up on - - for Pizza 8 Shuttle, actually very similar. They didn't do 9 the research that you did. But they're 10 essentially - - they called it Text mobs. The 11 police said - - I talked to police about what was 12 going on at Pizza Shuttle, and the police said, 13 yeah, this is a Text mob. And it wasn't just 14 happening at Pizza Shuttle. It was happening 15 across the street from Pizza Shuttle. It was 16 happening in the Kinko's parking lot, up and down 17 Farwell, basically. That had been the hot spot. 18 But Pizza Shuttle's reaction was not, well, gee, 19 there's outside agitators trying to close down my 20 business. They immediately made adjustments. 21 Which you're now claiming you also did. The 22 problem with, Pizza Shuttle had six months of 23 evidence that they had fixed the problem. You 24 have a couple weeks of evidence, and so, you 25 know, and I know that you guys have used Pizza 00129 1 Shuttles in your - - in your appeals before. 2 And, you know, and we did end up - - 3 MS. SCHRIMPF: Not with enormous 4 success, Mr. Chairman. 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: We did end up 6 suspending one of their licenses for ten days, 7 and I think I made the motion to - - to try not 8 to have them suspended. But my reasoning there 9 was not, oh, it wasn't Pizza Shuttle's fault. My 10 reasoning was this was a problem that happened, 11 Pizza Shuttle owned it, and fixed it, and they 12 had a 20 year track record. If they - - If they 13 had the - - Pizza Shuttle knows if they have the 14 same issue next year, it's going to be a very 15 different story. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Right. 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: And so - - And I'm 18 just - - Just take this for what it's worth, I 19 think it's hurting you more than it's helping 20 you. Because it takes two to tango. It takes 21 Facebook and it takes a venue. And there's a 22 reason that you're - - Sugar is just like there 23 was a reason they were choosing Pizza Shuttle. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no. 25 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 00130 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair, may I 2 please - - 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll allow him to 4 respond on that. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Alderman, with all due 6 respect, we were first made aware of this problem 7 at the Bradley Tech meeting. The next weekend I 8 put together an enforcement regimen that resolved 9 the problem immediately. Now, I heard you 10 criticize a couple weeks ago when they had a guy 11 who was unprepared to make a plan. I'm not going 12 to come here with nonsense plans and give you 13 something that didn't happen or something that's 14 not going to work. What - - What you did in that 15 particular instance, you did based on that 16 presentation. But there was nothing phony about 17 that presentation. There's nothing phony about 18 this one either. What we did was react 19 immediately upon finding out what the problem 20 was. I just sat here and said, I think the Sugar 21 people when they leave, join into that. We have 22 made arrangements so that that does not happen. 23 We changed the closing time, and we don't let 24 people park in that area where the con - - people 25 were congregating. 00131 1 But I disagree with you with regard to 2 this. These are competitors. This is a person, 3 this Perry Man of Steel wants to close this club 4 down for the benefit of the places where he works 5 at. I suppose the easiest way to solve this 6 would be to hire the guy. But I don't think we 7 want this guy working at Club Sugar. So the 8 answer is we have done what this committee asks 9 in the type of way that it does ask. And I - - I 10 don't agree that we haven't owned it. We owned 11 it immediately. We resolved it, and we've been 12 on the case almost non-stop since then. And 13 there hasn't been a problem, come - - whether 14 it's one month or whether it's six months. If 15 you want to review this in six months, that's 16 fine. 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: When is that - - 18 MR. HALBROOKS: What? 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: "Since then." 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Since the Bradley Tech 21 meeting. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Which was? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: I think April - - In 24 the - - Whenever that - - Yeah. 25 THE APPLICANT: In April, the second 00132 1 week in April. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Yeah. So - - So as 3 soon as we found out that weekend what was going 4 on, that was it. And - - And remember - - 5 MR. MAISTELMAN: We met with the 6 police, met with the - - the Captain, met with 7 the DA. Gave them all this information. I mean, 8 we jumped on it. We would have jumped on it 9 earlier. You know - - And now - - You know how 10 we get, how aggressive we can be. We identified 11 the problem and we went after it. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mister - - Mr. 13 Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I mean, part of the 16 challenge here is presentation. To say we own it 17 after we just sat through a couple of hours of 18 it's not us, it's not us. It's kind of 19 disingenuous. I understand the changes that you 20 made. In truth, based upon the testimony here 21 today, it appears, at least for the last couple 22 of weeks, that those changes may have worked. 23 But like I said, we just sat through several 24 hours of it's not us, it's not us. So to now say 25 we own it, we own it is kind of contradictory. 00133 1 Also, I know, because I look at these 2 things, and I know some of my colleagues look at 3 these things. Sometimes it is not about whether 4 your establishment did it. But whether or not 5 your establishment attracted it. It's kind of 6 like the But Not For. To piggyback on what 7 Alderman Kovac was saying. If Sugar was not with 8 there, would these traffic patterns have been 9 there? Would they not have had a place, okay, 10 saying we're going to come down to Sugar. We're 11 going to shut Sugar down. We're going to do this 12 to Sugar, and Sugar patrons join in. 13 It's one thing to say it's - - it's a 14 competitive business that you all are lawyers, 15 you all know it's different legal aspects that 16 you can say going on competitors for trying to 17 destroy your business, as you stated. But - - 18 But Not For, the neighbors testified about all 19 the stuff that they witnessed, that they see, and 20 you challenged it and all of that. But now 21 you're saying it does happen. Our people do join 22 in. But it's still - - Well, we made changes. 23 We made some improvements and all of that kind of 24 thing. I - - This is all just really cloudy. 25 Like I said, we sat here for a couple hours where 00134 1 you showed video, and you went through this whole 2 thing of it's not us, it's not us. But then you 3 just admitted that people from Sugar do join into 4 this. And like I said, I always think of the But 5 Not For. If Sugar wasn't there already, would it 6 have attracted these people? 7 MR. HALBROOKS: If I may, Mr. Chair. I 8 don't - - I don't believe we ever said it's not 9 us. What I was trying to do in my questions was 10 to try and explain their observations within the 11 context of what we were planning on proving. 12 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Why didn't lead you 13 with this? 14 MR. HALBROOKS: What? 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: We just sat through 16 - - 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Why didn't I lead with 18 it? 19 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Why didn't you lead 20 with - - 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Why did I or why didn't 22 I? 23 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: We just sat through 24 like hours of - - 25 MR. HALBROOKS: We don't - - Because 00135 1 the way this - - 2 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: - - video, El 3 Babalu, video - - And now - - 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Because we - - It's our 5 turn to go. We don't get to go first. We don't 6 get to go first. They have to go first. Then we 7 get to - - 8 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Yeah, but you could 9 have said, are you aware of the Facebook website? 10 You could have said, are you aware of blah, blah, 11 blah. But that's not what you all did. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: I think I did ask about 13 whether they were aware of any organized effort. 14 I think if we go back to the questions of Mr. 15 Ray, I asked exactly that, setting up what I was 16 planning on producing. So I do think that I was 17 completely consistent. I do think - - 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How about I help this. 19 I - - I can appreciate there is an orderly 20 process. How about we do this? How about we 21 allow them the final ten minutes of presentation, 22 call it, rather than debate/debate right now here 23 as well, too. I mean, your point is - - I - - I 24 understand that we've sat through multiple hours 25 of what should be a 30 minute each side hearing, 00136 1 and it's largely because that there's a zillion 2 questions beyond the 30 minutes of testimony. 3 You got ten minutes. That includes your closing. 4 We'll fire off. Alderpersons on the committee 5 here, please try to hold questions and/or 6 comments until after that. Write down your notes 7 if you need to. Unless there's a specific 8 person, then we'll take that. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you want to - - 10 Mike, do you want to - - Explain about the 11 Sergeant. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Name and address for 13 the record, please. 14 THE WITNESS: Michael Grosse, 2003 15 South Westgrand Lane. Spelling of the last name 16 is G-R-O-S-S-E. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, 18 sir. 19 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm one of the 20 managers at Sugar, and up until, you know, this 21 Winter when they - - The cops only came in a 22 couple times over the two or now it's been three 23 years, until lately. And I did have dealings 24 with the Sergeant that was here and made comments 25 to, you know, we're here because some things are 00137 1 going on around here, and, you know, there's 2 people sending us here, like the aldermen and - - 3 and their Captains or one of the higher-ups are 4 there. I don't know their - - their rankings. 5 But those are the kind of discussions. 6 Because I wondered, because we would 7 see them every night we're open. They would stop 8 in. And, you know, there was no fights. There 9 was no problems. There was nothing going on. 10 And they - - They wrote us a ticket for an exit 11 light being out. And they didn't specify it was 12 a hallway light. And it wasn't the - - They way 13 they said it was an exit light. So we were going 14 back and forth, trying to figure out, you know, 15 because we knew the light was on. We even had 16 videotape that night inside of the light being 17 on, so we're questioning it. And the very next 18 week they came in and wrote us the same ticket, 19 and then explained it. So it was just - - 20 They've been there every week since, and it's 21 just odd it hasn't happened. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: But when you say 23 "they," you're talking about the Sergeant that 24 was here. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. The Sergeant that 00138 1 was here. And, also, two other officers that are 2 on the - - the tavern squad or something to that 3 effect. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, if you would 6 remain seated. 7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Grosse. Questions 9 by committee? Okay. Thank you. Next witness, 10 please. Thank you. 11 THE WITNESS: Hi. My name is Chivas 12 McVicker, C-H-I-V-A-S. Last name, M-C-V-I-C-K-E- 13 R. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And an address, please, 15 Mr. McVicker. 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. I have attended 17 Club Sugar - - 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: An address. We need an 19 address for you. 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry. 4276 North 21 68th Street. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please proceed then. 23 THE WITNESS: I have attended Club 24 Sugar several times over the last couple of 25 months. Usually both on a Friday and Saturday. 00139 1 Being present, you know, when the club before it 2 opens usually, accompany a couple of friends 3 there, and after the club closes and seeing what 4 happens. They run a really, you know, tight 5 ship. They have several security guards there, 6 both inside and outside, you know, to keep 7 control of the crowd. 8 They usually hustle people out of 9 there, you know, while the last couple songs are 10 on, just to prevent some cruising phenomenon. 11 Also, I think the - - There was an officer here 12 earlier that testified that there was a flyer 13 about the Club Energy, that they changed the 14 names, and I have knowledge of that flyer. It 15 was not a name change. What it was is the teen 16 night for the new tie-in for summer, and they had 17 KISS 103.7 FM there. So that was - - That was 18 what that was. It wasn't a name change. 19 I personally haven't been seeing - - I 20 haven't seen any cruising on the nights that I 21 was there. But anybody has any questions? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 23 Any follow-up questions for him? No. Thank you, 24 Mr. McVicker. 25 THE WITNESS: Thank you very much. 00140 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there additional 2 individuals who wish to provide testimony here? 3 Any others wishing to provide testimony? 4 THE WITNESS: Hi. I'm Brian Smith. 5 I've been going to Club Sugar probably about the 6 last four - - about four months. Oh, address. 7 1233 North 21st Street. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 9 THE WITNESS: I've been going to Club 10 Sugar about for the last four months. I seen a 11 lot of changes in Club Sugar. I mean, it went 12 from a not so tight ship, according to cruising, 13 but a more tight ship on the last two or three 14 months. I stand outside afterwards, and I wait 15 for these who want to come out. And what we do 16 is we all leave after everyone else is gone. And 17 I'm going to leave about six, seven minutes after 18 the club is over. It doesn't take long to get it 19 cleared. I have not witnessed traffic or 20 cruising, as you guys would call it, in the last 21 two months. 22 They have very strict policies there as 23 far as clothes. On who can get in, who can't 24 come in. The Club Sugar is a safe place to be. 25 I never felt intimidated or I never felt afraid 00141 1 in that club, you know, just being around people. 2 The music is great to me. The people are more 3 friendly. Some nights are rougher than others, 4 but, I mean, you'll get that at any 5 establishment. So that's basically my testimony. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions 7 by committee? Okay. Thank you. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: If we could just update 9 here on the latest poster. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. 11 THE APPLICANT: This is the latest 12 poster on - - 13 MR. MAISTELMAN: Perry Man of Steel. 14 THE APPLICANT: On his Facebook. 15 MR. MAISTELMAN: He's watching the 16 hearing. 17 THE APPLICANT: He says, "On what. 18 Club Sugar had the audacity to say my name on 19 Channel 25 today, because they don't want to lose 20 their license." And then it goes on to say, 21 "They should have never tried treating my people 22 wrong. The people in the area don't want them 23 there before - - " I don't know. I can't - - 24 Because it's all in weird text. 25 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Who said that? 00142 1 THE APPLICANT: This is that Perry Man 2 of Steel that's on the Facebook. And I just lost 3 the - - Because this is not my phone. 4 MR. MAISTELMAN: Do you want to read it 5 into the record? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: The point is this is 7 the man we provided you information from this 8 individual. And this is the man who has made the 9 threats. This is who we went to the police 10 about. And we are just not going to let them 11 interfere with closing time at Sugar anymore. 12 THE APPLICANT: Do you want me to read 13 it again? 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. It's your 15 time. 16 THE APPLICANT: It says, "On what. 17 Club Sugar had the audacity to say my name on 18 Channel 25 today because they don't want to lose 19 my - - their license. Their lawyer's reading 20 combos from my - - from my page with all of you." 21 And it keeps going off. Okay. Hold on. I'll 22 get it back. It's coming. Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: This is another post on 24 Facebook that just came in. It says hosted by 25 Money, Money, Money, 414 Don and Damy. "That's 00143 1 why ladies is five dollars before 9:30. No ID. 2 No dress code. Music by BJ Problem. Chilled, 3 the baddest doing it. So hood ENT. Green Light 4 is the group bout ND. We about to get that 414 5 shakin' for the Summer, a little early, so follow 6 us." 7 THE APPLICANT: This one, I can't get 8 it on again. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: That's all right. We 10 get the point. They're posting in real time, and 11 they're paying attention, and I think they think 12 they're about to succeed. And what you're going 13 to be left with is the scene at El Babalu's where 14 there is no police, there is gunshots, and 15 there's people dancing in the streets. With 16 Sugar you don't have any of that. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Questions by 18 committee? Was there any - - anyone else who 19 wanted to provide testimony in support of the 20 license? All right. Was there any additional 21 closing that you want to make here? 22 MR. HALBROOKS: The last video, did it 23 get admitted? 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes, I admitted two 25 additional ones, I believe. 00144 1 MR. HALBROOKS: There were three. I 2 think that's one, two and four. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Oh, we didn't admit or 4 did we not play it. Is that what - - Are you 5 asking if we played it? 6 MR. HALBROOKS: We played it. I don't 7 think it was admitted. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Alderman Kovac 9 move to make the third video provided by Mr. 10 Halbrooks part of our official record in this 11 proceeding. Hearing no objections to that, so 12 ordered. Any closing that you want to make here 13 in the left two minutes time here? 14 MR. MAISTELMAN: I would just - - I 15 want to put something out there. And - - And I 16 have known Alderman Witkowiak almost as long as 17 I've been a lawyer. And I know that he is of 18 most highest ethics. And I - - And I speak that 19 from my vast years of experience working with 20 him, and I have the utmost respect for him. The 21 - - The issue that came up was because we - - our 22 office was informed by our client that the 23 police, when they came in there to cite him for a 24 light bulb, that they had - - been reports that 25 the Alderman wanted the police to keep an eye on 00145 1 this place. Obviously, that's not true, because 2 the - - the Sergeant under oath said it wasn't 3 true. She was the one who purportedly said it. 4 I just want to go on the record that, you know, 5 Alderman Witkowiak is - - is probably the most 6 honorable member of the Common Council other than 7 all you guys. And - - And I respect, and I - - I 8 just wanted that to be - - be clear. And I'll 9 defer to David for any other closing. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: I don't think you have 11 any - - The only actual testimony that you have 12 is from Alderman Witkowiak about what he observed 13 on Easter Sunday night. The other individuals 14 who testified, none of them were able to testify 15 about anything specific about Sugar. I - - I 16 think that given what we've seen, given what 17 we've provided you. And given the commitment of 18 - - of Sugar, and understanding, what's really 19 important to me is that the police aren't here, 20 that Captain Gaglione pulled his people 21 completely back. And for the City Attorney 22 called me this morning and said the police would 23 not be appearing and would not be objecting. 24 After how this thing started a month ago in terms 25 of my interaction with them, and then, you know, 00146 1 somewhat subtle in my approach, I was quite 2 impressed and I - - I believe that I took that as 3 a - - as a significant endorsement of what we've 4 done. 5 I think they deserve another change of 6 renewal. I think a stern warning letter is 7 completely appropriate given the circumstances 8 here, given that this popped up, given that this 9 was an Internet based problem, and given that we 10 were able to identify it and alter the behavior 11 of the customers almost immediately so that they 12 don't even really even park over there anymore 13 after one weekend. I think that we've had 14 success, and I'd be glad to come back during the 15 course of the year for reviews such that we could 16 get the time period that Alderman Witkowiak was 17 looking for. But certainly to - - to let these 18 guys that are trying to close them down win on 19 just a - - this flimsy effort when all they're 20 going to do is just move to another neighborhood. 21 I presume somebody is going to get this June 13th 22 flyer and do something about it, but when you see 23 the kind of cruising behavior that you see in the 24 video and see how quickly we stopped it, I would 25 ask that you consider renewing and that you 00147 1 consider a warning about their future behavior. 2 Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Witkowiak, did 4 you want to provide minute here, a brief closing? 5 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Please. The - - 6 The meeting that everybody refers to at Bradley 7 Tech was probably the - - the largest attended 8 neighborhood meeting that I've had since I've 9 been the Alderman. There was probably 20 people 10 or so that spoke vociferously about the problems. 11 And the reason I'm bringing this up, and I 12 understand their objections to the hearsay and 13 everything, there were a lot of other people that 14 saw this. But they were clearly intimidated by 15 the fact that there was a Court Reporter there, 16 and there was - - they were taping this whole 17 thing, and they - - well, it's the old thing 18 about we're taking names. We're here, we're 19 taking names. And - - And I think that that was 20 an intimidation ploy that actually worked. You 21 saw - - You saw three people that showed up 22 today. There were other eyewitnesses that saw a 23 lot more than I saw over time that appeared at 24 Bradley Tech that weren't here today. So the 25 ploy that was used to film this meeting at 00148 1 Bradley Tech and get a Court Reporter there and 2 take names, it clearly worked. 3 The - - The thing about the police not 4 being here to object and the Captain. Well, you 5 know, I'm sad to say, I don't know how much money 6 we spent on the Boondoggle tower cam or whatever 7 the heck they call it. But I read a memo, just 8 it was a day or two ago, it was just recently, 9 saying that the police would not be providing 10 testimony relative to their tower cam, because 11 for some reason the batteries didn't work, or the 12 generator didn't work, or it wasn't plugged in, 13 or somebody forgot to put film in the camera or 14 something. I don't know. But for whatever 15 reason, I guess, and I did not direct them, and I 16 don't know, but I guess that they park the thing 17 over there, and for all intents and purposes it 18 was just - - it was just an empty bag. There was 19 nothing in the thing. So that's why the police 20 department decided not to be here, because this 21 supposed surveillance that they did, failed. At 22 some future point at a public safety meeting I'm 23 going to see what we're spending on that thing 24 and what it's worth, and if it's not, we can 25 probably throw the thing out if we're towing it 00149 1 all over town, it's not doing the City good. 2 It's my job and it's my responsibility 3 to guarantee the health, safety and welfare of my 4 neighborhood. And - - And I take that to heart 5 seriously, above and beyond any threats or, 6 whatever, what anybody thinks. I never targeted 7 Club Sugar. I've never targeted any club. I've 8 actually been sued for this before where I spoke 9 against the club, and vindicated on several 10 occasions. I have never targeted a club. I have 11 never gone to the police department and said 12 build a case. I have not done that. I'm simply 13 doing my job by responding to complaints from 14 neighbors. 15 And now we bring in a third party that 16 supposedly caused all this problem with some 17 credible evidence about it. But the point is, as 18 Alderwoman Coggs so astutely pointed out, I mean, 19 if Club Sugar wasn't there, this wouldn't be 20 happening over there. And this is spilling out 21 into the neighborhood that we've spent years and 22 years and years and years. If you all - - Most 23 of you on the committee are too young to know 24 that if you go back 20 years in that 25 neighborhood, you could buy - - you could buy a 00150 1 house in that neighborhood for 5,000 dollars or 2 less, because nobody wanted to live there because 3 the neighborhood was so bad. And little by 4 little, and while maintaining great diversity, I 5 might add, a couple people got together, and a 6 couple more, and a couple more, and a couple more 7 said, we're going to invest in this neighborhood. 8 We're going to make this something. This is our 9 neighborhood. We want to live here. And slowly 10 but surely, three steps forward and two steps 11 back, the neighborhood has come back. 12 For someone to come in from the 13 outside, open a club over there, under the guise 14 of - - and that was the original plan was the 15 Christian music and all that. And I remember the 16 original neighborhood meeting at the place, and 17 the neighbors were kind of - - They were kind of 18 tentative, but they said, well, you know, this 19 guy is for real and the young Christians need a 20 place to hang out and listen to music and dance. 21 I suppose it's going to be okay. Obviously, it - 22 - it probably didn't work for them financially 23 and they - - and - - and they chose a different 24 course. 25 The fact is that this has created a - - 00151 1 a major disturbance in the neighborhood. Whoever 2 is involved or coming in from the outside plus 3 the people that are there, whatever the 4 combination, whatever the mix is, if Sugar wasn't 5 there, this wouldn't be happening in the 6 neighborhood. And, furthermore, I want to add, a 7 lot of people have done testimony about well, 8 it's this place on 6th and National, it's this 9 place on 5th Street, and it's that place over 10 there. There is a lot of contributing factors to 11 the problems that have developed in the 12 neighborhood, and as each one comes up for 13 renewal, or if there is significant problems 14 before that, each one of them will be dealt with. 15 But if we keep going down the line and saying, 16 well, it's this guy. Well, it's that guy. Well, 17 we'll wait until we hear from this guy. Well, 18 we'll wait to hear from that guy. Nothing will 19 ever get done. 20 So I'm asking you to restore the peace 21 and the quiet to this neighborhood, and allow the 22 - - allow the continued renaissance in Walker's 23 Point to move forward. With - - With venues like 24 this, either - - either through themselves 25 creating it or by their presence, they're drawing 00152 1 others in from other areas to create this 2 disturbance. This is - - This is ruining the 3 neighborhood. This is - - This is 20 years worth 4 of - - worth of blood, sweat, labor and 5 commitment. You might as well just throw it all 6 out the window if we allow these kind of 7 entertainment venues to keep going on that 8 attract and help create this kind of disturbance, 9 whether it be in Walker's Point or anyplace else 10 in town where the neighbors care. We can't let 11 this go on. 12 I would ask that the - - I would ask 13 that the committee please not renew this license. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. We're in 16 committee. 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: We don't have a lot of 20 testimony on this, but I think we have pretty 21 good testimony. I think that actually speaks 22 well for the new contested hearing format. And I 23 also - - I think there's been enough testimony on 24 the objectors, and I don't - - to make me think 25 that - - that they were intimidated. Whether 00153 1 that was the intention of the - - of the 2 applicant or the applicant's lawyers or not, I 3 think that was certainly the effect of - - of 4 what they - - what they did at the community 5 hearing. So I just want to say I don't - - That 6 doesn't really relate to my motion, but I - - I 7 just don't think, not that a public record 8 shouldn't be created at public meetings. It 9 certainly should be. But when the effect is 10 intimidation, I think that's something that 11 shouldn't be tolerated. People should be 12 rewarded for speaking out at public meetings. 13 In the absence of - - of Alderman 14 Witkowiak's very detailed observations on - - on 15 Easter Sunday, there wouldn't have been much to 16 corroborate what we knew was out there, but it 17 was hearsay. Alderman Witkowiak's testimony was 18 very precise, very accurate, and, in fact, was 19 essentially corroborated by the applicant. I'm 20 curious what they would have done if he hadn't 21 provide that testimony, if they still would have 22 produced all this evidence that this problem, at 23 first, pretended it wasn't there. It was 24 actually someone else's fault. 25 But there is clearly a serious problem 00154 1 on the street. Its actual cause is uncertain. 2 But as this comes up time and time again with the 3 committee, the actual cause of the problem, 4 whatever, the ultimate cause is not the issue. 5 It's the bar is a contributing factor to 6 disorder. We remove that contributing factor, 7 and then see what we can do with the rest of the 8 disorder. And that's consistently been the 9 stance of this committee. This committee doesn't 10 pretend to solve crime here and disorder in the 11 City. That's the job of neighbors. That's the 12 job of the police department. And this 13 committee, you know, occasionally does what it 14 can to not get in the way of neighbors and 15 police. 16 But I think there is significant 17 evidence that this club has been for a while a 18 problem, and now there's testimony from the 19 lawyer that they fixed it. But what does it mean 20 to fix the problem for the last couple weeks 21 right before your licensing hearing. I mean, how 22 many times have we seen that? Usually, with a 23 few exceptions, people are smart enough to not 24 cause trouble right before their licensing 25 hearing. 00155 1 So based on the testimony of the 2 Alderman, and testimony of other neighbors, and 3 the various evidences presented, the testimony of 4 the applicant, I'll move for non-renewal. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 6 Kovac is to recommend non-renewal of the license, 7 based on the testimony of the Alderman, and 8 testimony of other individual neighbors. 9 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is - - Is there 11 additional discussion on the motion? Are there 12 objections to that motion? 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will object, as well. 15 So - - 16 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I'm objecting to 17 that. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That will be three - - 19 three objections. The motion will fail on a one 20 - - one to three vote. We're still in committee. 21 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 23 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I'm going to make 24 this motion, even though the problem is we only 25 have four right here. 00156 1 CHIARMAN BOHL: We're going to be 2 deadlocked here in twos. 3 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Right. So - - So - 4 - And I'll try to play the balance tonight, but 5 I - - but I feel a lot of the sentiments that 6 Alderman Kovac just mentioned. I feel it. I 7 hear the frustration in Alderman Witkowiak's 8 voice. And I could sense the frustration of - - 9 of the neighborhood. And I just - - I just kept 10 thinking about what my - - what my children say 11 to me when - - when they can't believe something 12 that I'm doing or something that I'm saying, 13 can't believe how old I am. To just say, 14 "Really, dad? Really?" "Really, dad." 15 This - - This Facebook. Really? It's 16 - - This is - - This is your client - - This is 17 your clientele. By and large this is who you 18 cater your club toward. And this is the type of 19 activity. This is the way that they communicate. 20 This is the way that they - - This is the way 21 that they get down. And part of that comes along 22 with the territory. This comes with the 23 territory, with the clientele that you - - with 24 the arena that you're - - that you're in. I 25 think a lot of this comes with that territory. 00157 1 And so, in many ways I think that it's necessary 2 for you to be able to operate in that arena to be 3 able to deal with some of these issues. I don't 4 - - I don't think you're the - - the first 5 business to be targeted on Facebook. This is not 6 even the first time. This is probably the first 7 time that they did this type of activity, as far 8 as cruising is con - - is concerned. But this is 9 not the first time that we've seen people attack 10 a business establishment on Facebook and try to 11 get patrons not to go to, do all other sorts of 12 things on Facebook. I mean, it's - - That's 13 going to happen with this medium. It exists. 14 And as a business you have to operate in that 15 environment, and sometimes it's tough. 16 But at the same time you have to be 17 able to operate your business in the manner that 18 doesn't cause problems in the neighborhood. And 19 that expectation is there of you, regardless of 20 the sources. You have to be able to come to this 21 committee and say, we're operating our business 22 in a way that we're not creating this type of - - 23 of problem for neighbors. So, that's the bottom 24 line. And so, I - - I think that apparently 25 you've been able to have some success in the past 00158 1 couple weeks. I don't think that it's impossible 2 for you to operate. The things that's been 3 presented before this committee can't excuse you 4 from those obligations. You have that obligation 5 as a business owner. You're operating. You're 6 open for business. You're making money. You 7 have to be able to control your business and 8 those that, you know, those that come. You know, 9 my frustration is that, oftentimes, the clientele 10 that you're catering to, they're saying that 11 there's nothing for us to do, but then they have 12 an establishment to go to and then behave in a 13 manner that makes it responsible for us to close 14 it down. And so, you know, there - - there is 15 responsibility around the board. You know, we've 16 seen teen clubs operate without issue. So it's - 17 - I don't think that that's - - that's impossible 18 to do. I think that's possible to do. There is 19 some responsibility and some headache that come 20 along with that, and there's, you know, 21 apparently they feel like this type of behavior 22 is okay at Club Sugar. And some kind of way you 23 have to make - - you have to communicate that 24 it's not. 25 So with that, Mr. Chair, I think 00159 1 because of what's in the record, because of the 2 testimony. Yeah, I mean, even the police report. 3 It's obvious that this has been a major impact on 4 the area, along with other establishments there. 5 I think a - - a 90 day suspension is - - is 6 warranted. So that will be my motion. 7 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, there was 8 no police report, just so that the committee is 9 aware of that. 10 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Well, on the - - On 11 the testimony of - - of neighbors and, you know, 12 that's all we have. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 14 Hamilton is to recommend approval of the renewal 15 of the license with the issuance of a - - of a 90 16 day suspension, based on the neighborhood 17 testimony provided for here. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any 20 objections to that motion? I will also object. 21 It will be two objections. Motion will fail on a 22 two-two vote. We're still in committee. 23 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Since we've been 00160 1 here for 12 hours, I will make the motion for a 2 60 day suspension. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 4 Hamilton is to recommend approval of the renewal 5 of the license with the issuance of a 60 day 6 suspension based on matters contained in the - - 7 It's been a long day here. Based on the 8 neighborhood testimony. Are there any objections 9 to that motion? 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will also object to 12 the motion. 13 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I'll make a motion to 16 refer to Council without recommendation. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That - - That's not an 18 adequate motion here. Mr. Schrimpf. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Oh, because of renewal 20 we can't? 21 MS. SCHRIMPF: No. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Oh, boy. 23 MS. SCHRIMPF: Not undecided. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So we're - - 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 00161 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 2 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: And - - And, you 3 know, I'm going to expect some compromise on both 4 sides over here, okay. We - - This is - - This 5 is - - This is a tough one, and I think part of 6 the reason is - - is the record that you all are 7 - - that members of this committee may be having 8 some issues with, and that's understandable. So 9 at this time, based on the testimony before the 10 committee today, I make a motion for 45 days. 11 Not going any lower than that. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Motion by Alderman 13 Hamilton is to recommend approval of the renewal 14 of the license with the issuance of a 45 day 15 suspension, based on neighborhood testimony. Are 16 there objections to that motion? 17 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will also object. 19 Motion will fail on a two-two vote. 20 I'll pass the gavel here and we'll give 21 it a shot here. Madame Chair, based on the 22 record here before us and - - and what I will 23 just say is I am concerned that - - that there is 24 the - - the ability of outside sources, I 25 believe, to create and - - and create an 00162 1 atmosphere that wreaks havoc with cruising, and 2 that we're in an age now with social media where 3 everything is accessible on a person's - - in 4 that person's palm, and that it's something that 5 the police department fights. And that they 6 should have had this mobile chaos that can move 7 from one place, from one location to another. I 8 certainly believe that - - that the individuals 9 who are - - are attracted to a certain type of 10 entertainment entities at times. But the ability 11 of those establishments to try to rectify and 12 take corrective measures, work with the - - the 13 authorities, is something that has to be 14 reflected. 15 I - - I mean, the other difficulty in 16 this is that clearly Alderman Witkowiak's 17 testimony is credible in terms of what firsthand 18 he knew, Ms. Kaufmann, and what he witnessed in 19 or around this location. Ms. Kaufmann is 20 somebody who is - - is a very - - a very 21 dedicated person in this particular district in 22 this area. However, she admitted that there was 23 really nothing that she could bring forward. I 24 think that clearly the - - the testimony here of 25 another one of the witnesses who spoke of having 00163 1 a parking lot and the concerns in terms of the 2 distance not really knowing and couldn't say 3 specifically I think clearly that it was this 4 location. And so, ultimately, you know, we're 5 left with no police report. I think we're left 6 with sort of a muddled record, and clearly we're 7 - - what we do is, is have a concern, one, that 8 Alderman Witkowiak has heard things, and I 9 believe legitimately to that effect. And two, 10 that he, at least, on - - on the occasion where 11 he was out there, witnessed problems at this 12 location. 13 I - - I'm hopeful that - - that it's 14 something that can be rectified. I'm not certain 15 that it can totally. Who knows. However, I 16 think that the committee strongly has to - - to 17 factor in the entirety of the record, and the 18 entirety of the record is no police reports, and 19 largely testimony, although this in an odd case, 20 firsthand testimony of the local alderperson, who 21 himself witnessed the problems. And so, the 22 question remains with that - - with that instant 23 and the additional calls that have been relayed 24 from that - - from the alderperson, does that 25 reach the level or threshold of taking a license 00164 1 or to take a 90 day action. And I would argue 2 no. But given - - given that, I do 3 believe that there have been concerns that have 4 been raised. I believe that there have been 5 severe concerns raised. Given the fact I think 6 the record is muddled, because some of that 7 activity clearly has - - was described by the 8 local alderperson as individuals coming in or 9 out, and the fact that he has taken a number of 10 complaints in his office regarding this 11 establishment, I would move at this point here 12 for approval of the renewal of the license with a 13 30 day suspension, based on the neighborhood 14 testimony. 15 CHAIRWOMAN COGGS: The motion by 16 Alderman Bohl is approval of the renewal of the 17 license with a 30 day suspension, based upon 18 neighborhood testimony. Are there any objections 19 to the motion, other than my own? 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair? Or Madame 21 Chair. 22 CHAIRWOMAN COGGS: Alderman Kovac. 23 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Are you Chair - - 24 Madame Chair? That's right, of course you are. 25 You made the motion. 00165 1 I have a question that I asked Bruce 2 Schrimpf off-line, and I probably should ask it 3 on the record, because clearly based on my 4 motion, I want to object to this motion. I also 5 don't want to have a staring contest with the 6 committee for the next, you know, however many 7 hours it is until Council. 8 So I want to know what we - - Do we 9 need three votes or do we have an option to hold 10 this and have another hearing with the full five 11 members of the committee so we won't be 12 deadlocked. Is that an option? What's on the 13 table? 14 MS. SCHRIMPF: Well, let me answer it 15 by saying that nothing requires the committee to 16 make a decision right now. You can, in fact, sit 17 on it and do all of that. However, Alderman 18 Zielinski would have to read the transcript or 19 listen to the video, so to view that part he 20 missed. And then, the committee would have to 21 make a decision, and it would have to be done in 22 a manner so that you could get findings of fact 23 out, and have it considered by the Council prior 24 to the time that this license expires. And I'm 25 not sure when this license expires. 00166 1 MR. HALBROOKS: I believe it's a point 2 of order. There's a motion on the floor. This 3 is not - - 4 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Halbrooks, the 5 committee can ask me a question anytime they 6 want. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand that. 8 MS. SCHRIMPF: All right. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm making a point of 10 order. There's a motion on the floor. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Okay. I'm going to 12 ask for some order here. And I'll allow the 13 questioning for Attorney Schrimpf. Is there 14 anything else, Alderman Kovac. 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Well, what - - So 16 what? We - - How long does it take to get 17 findings of fact out? 18 MS. SCHRIMPF: Well - - 19 MR. MAISTELMAN: Accurate? Oh, sorry. 20 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Maistelman. It 21 usually takes two, sometimes three days to get 22 that out. 23 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So in other words, 24 we'd have to schedule - - We couldn't just do it 25 before Council. We'd have to schedule a special 00167 1 meeting. 2 MS. SCHRIMPF: No, you would have - - 3 You would have to have a special meeting, and it 4 would have to be done in such a way so that the 5 findings of fact could get out. They would have 6 an opportunity to submit written objections, and 7 all of that prior to the time that the Council 8 would meet. 9 ALDERMAN KOVAC: All right. Now, I 10 guess I have another question of parliamentary 11 procedure, which might as well be asked out in 12 the open, because it will probably be figured out 13 either way. If we pass a motion for a 30 day 14 suspension, can we bring - - can we re-bring it 15 up on the Council floor if they do not object to 16 it? Because then clearly this is also - - 17 MS. SCHRIMPF: Anything this committee 18 does is a recommendation. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Um-hnh. 20 MS. SCHRIMPF: And anything can be 21 considered more fully on the floor of the 22 Council. It's the Council that's making, 23 ultimately, the decision. So doing it in light 24 of the report of this committee, but, I mean, 25 they are - - And they can certainly consider, 00168 1 let's say, there is some penalty that's imposed. 2 They - - The Council is obligated to consider it 3 based on the report of this committee and any 4 objections to that report. 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So if we make a 30 day 6 suspension today, regardless of the action they 7 take, Council can refer it back. 8 MS. SCHRIMPF: Yes. 9 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Well, Mr. Pfaff, 10 maybe we can get this on record. When does this 11 license expire? 12 MR. PFAFF: It expires on June 30th. 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: So there is another 14 meeting? 15 MR. PFAFF: On June 2nd, there's 16 another meeting. The Common Council, I believe, 17 is the 15th. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Okay. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Oh, so we can hold 20 this whole thing. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Move to hold. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have a 24 prevailing - - 25 MS. SCHRIMPF: That's - - That's an 00169 1 appropriate motion. 2 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: The motion by 3 Alderman Kovac, and that's an appropriate motion, 4 is to hold this item to the Call of the Chair. 5 Are there any objections? 6 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, let me 7 just check one thing, though. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It's Madame Chair. 9 MR. PFAFF: Mr. Chair, the Council 10 meeting is actually June 25th, which would still 11 be before the expiration of this license. 12 CHAIRWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Madame Chair, if I may 14 remake my point of order. There are now two 15 motions on - - 16 CHAIRWOMAN COGGS: Mister - - Mr. 17 Halbrooks, we're in committee, and there's a 18 motion on the floor. So I won't take any more. 19 MS. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I was 20 checking to see if there is, for example, there 21 is some ordinances, there is a requirement that 22 the committee make a recommendation within so 23 many days. And I quickly reviewed both Chapter 24 108 and Chapter 85, and I do not find that 25 requirement. So you could take the contemplated 00170 1 action. The only qualification would be that 2 Alderman Zielinski must either view this hearing 3 or read the transcript, or both. 4 CHAIRWOMAN COGGS: Thank you, Attorney 5 Schrimpf. Again, the motion on the floor, 6 because it supersedes the previous motion, is to 7 hold - - by Alderman Kovac is to hold at the Call 8 of the Chair. Are there any objections to that 9 motion? Motion passes, four all. This item will 10 be held. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And then 12 likely it will be rescheduled. When's the next 13 regular date of the - - the committee? June 2nd, 14 with a corresponding Council date on the 25th of 15 June. Oh, it's the 15th of June? 2nd of June 16 for licensing. 15th of June for Common Council. 17 MR. PFAFF: Does this matter need to be 18 scheduled on the agenda? 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 20 * * * * * 00171 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a full and complete transcript of 11 "Sugar" taken in the foregoing proceedings. 12 13 14 15 16 17 JEAN M. BARINA 18 Court Reporter 19 20 21 Dated this day of June, 2010. 22 23