1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE LICENSES COMMITTEE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter of: THE BREW HOUSE Class "B" Tavern License STOJAN CORALIC, "THE BREW HOUSE" 2936 South 13th Street * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Proceedings had and testimony given in the above-entitled matter before the LICENSES COMMITTEE CITY OF MILWAUKEE on the 19th day of January, 2010. 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 MR. RONALD SHIKORA, 3 161 West Wisconsin Avenue, Suite 3032, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53203, 4 appeared on behalf of The Brew House. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Next, we have Item No. 3 6, which is File No. 091190, a motion relating to 4 the revocation of the Class "B" Tavern License of 5 Stojan Coralic for the premises located at 2936 6 South 13th Street doing business as the Brew House 7 in the 14th Aldermanic District. 8 Good afternoon to you gentlemen here. I 9 see that you are represented by counsel. If you 10 could state your appearances, please, for the 11 record? 12 MR. SHIKORA: Attorney Ronald Shikora, 13 S-H-I-K-O-R-A, address is 161 West Wisconsin 14 Avenue, Suite 3032, Milwaukee 53203. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 16 MR. CORALIC: Stojan Coralic, 17 C-O-R-A-L-I-C, Stojan, S-T-O-J-A-N. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll get that on record 19 here, but we'll need to swear you two in. 20 MR. SHIKORA: Excuse me. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 22 MR. SHIKORA: My intention here is to 23 request an adjournment of this hearing. Mr. 24 Coralic was served the evening of January 12th. 25 That gives him like six days, which includes the 4 1 weekend, which gives us hardly any time to prepare 2 for a hearing for the magnitude of this that will 3 affect his ability and others' ability to earn a 4 living. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What I'm going to ask 6 for is, Mr. Schrimpf, can you tell us what the 7 statutory minimum requirement is for service as 8 well, too? 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: The Statute Section 10 125.12 provides that the notice shall not be less 11 than three days nor more than ten days. This is 12 one of these usual situations where the 13 legislature has put the time in as a max time. So 14 the max time that can be had is ten days. You 15 can't give more than that. The least time that 16 you can have is three days, and I believe it is 17 calculated in such a way so that it does not 18 include Saturdays, Sundays and holidays. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So that it does not? 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: So it does not, that is 21 correct. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And what if we 23 excluded those days, what would today be in terms 24 of it? 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, if it was served on 5 1 the 12th, the 13th was a Wednesday, the 14th was a 2 Thursday, the 15th was a Friday, that's your 3 three, and you would not include the weekend or 4 yesterday, which was a legal holiday. So you are 5 at the three days' minimum. You cannot give more 6 than ten days' notice though. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We are -- what 8 I'm going to rule is, I'm going to rule that we 9 will indeed move forward. We have met the 10 statutory requirements. 11 Mr. Shikora. 12 MR. SHIKORA: I think it's highly 13 unfair, highly unfair to not give someone an 14 opportunity to prepare, opportunity to seek out 15 witnesses, opportunity to subpoena witnesses in 16 order to defend yourself. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. What we'll do is, 18 at this point, we will ask you two gentlemen, 19 Alderman Zielinski, are there any others who are 20 present who are intending to provide testimony in 21 this matter? Everyone who intends to provide 22 testimony, including you two gentlemen present 23 here, please raise your right hand. 24 MS. BLACK: Do you solemnly affirm under 25 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 6 1 Wisconsin the testimony you're about to give is 2 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 3 truth? 4 ALL: I do. 5 MR. SHIKORA: I believe we have one 6 other witness who may be outside. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll allow them to be 8 sworn in when they do come in. 9 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will ask at this point 11 here to our applicant, if you could provide your 12 name and address for the record, please? 13 MR. CORALIC: I'm Stojan Coralic, 14 C-O-R-A-L-I-C, Coralic, S-T-O-J-A-N, 3101 West 15 Cold Spring Road, Greenfield, 53221. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And Mr. 17 Coralic, do you acknowledge receiving summons and 18 notice of a sworn complaint of a revocation, 19 accompanied police report with the possibility 20 that the license may be revoked? 21 MR. CORALIC: We received the notice. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes? 23 MR. CORALIC: Yes, we received the 24 notice. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Okay, the 7 1 way this will proceed, and I will ask you at this 2 point, how do you answer to the charges in the 3 revocation? 4 MR. SHIKORA: We oppose it. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. You oppose it, 6 you do object. 7 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, very good. All 9 right. There is a desire to proceed forward with 10 the hearing then. Alderman Zielinski, we will -- 11 you are the complainant, we will turn this over to 12 you. 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Okay. Thank you, 14 Mr. Chairman. This complaint was brought -- 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Oh, I just wanted to 16 double -- sorry, there were items in a police 17 report. Before we turn it over to you, Alderman 18 Zielinski, I will ask that Sergeant MacGillis read 19 the police report into the record please. 20 MR. MACGILLIS: All right. That's Page 21 -- starting on Page 196 of the E-Book. It's going 22 to be Page 2, but Page 195 on this book, Item No. 23 2, correction above, Item No. 2: 24 On 1/12/2010, disposition was added to 25 No. 1, which is on top of the page, a guilty plea 8 1 in Milwaukee Municipal Court, $367 fine. 2 Moving on to Item 2, on 5/9/2009 at 2:20 3 a.m., a Milwaukee Police Department squad was sent 4 to a shooting at 2952 South 13th Street. The 5 detective interviewed the victim as well as a 6 witness who stated he observed the suspect and 7 accomplices inside the Brew House prior to the 8 shooting. The incident occurred outside the 9 tavern. 10 Item 3: On 9/27/2009, at approximately 11 1:55 a.m., Milwaukee Police Department squads were 12 dispatched to a fight at 2936 South 13th Street, 13 the Brew House. Officers spoke to a Ricardo D. 14 Arteaga who stated there was an argument between 15 two females where one of the females threw a boot 16 at the other when they left. When the females 17 were walking towards their vehicles in the street, 18 they were causing a disturbance by yelling 19 obscenities and screaming. Other patrons were on 20 the street in front of the Brew House and across 21 the street impeding traffic and causing vehicles 22 to stop. 23 Item 4: On 10/3/2009, at 2:15 a.m., 24 Milwaukee Police Department squad was flagged down 25 for shots fired in the 2900 block of South 13th 9 1 Street by several witnesses who stated people were 2 shooting from a maroon Dodge Intrepid at the 3 corner of 13th Street and West Montana Street. As 4 an officer exited a squad, the driver of the 5 Intrepid accelerated away, away at a high rate of 6 speed in an attempt to elude the officer. The 7 officer pursued the Intrepid until it was involved 8 in an accident. An officer spoke to the 9 front-seat passenger who stated they were leaving 10 the Brew House and someone, somebody had been 11 shooting at them. Several of the callers and the 12 witnesses stated that they heard several people 13 arguing outside the Brew House. The bar patrons 14 were standing in the street stopping the cars in 15 the street and playing loud music prior to the 16 gunshots. They heard multiple gunshots in the 17 area where patrons from the Brew House were 18 congregated. 19 Item 5: On 10/11/2009, at 12:20 a.m., 20 the Milwaukee Police Department sergeant and 21 officer conducted a tavern check at the Brew 22 House, 2936 South 13th Street. The subject was in 23 the men's room and appeared to be under the age of 24 21. He was asked for identification and he stated 25 he did not have any. Subject was taken outside 10 1 where he showed his Wisconsin ID that showed a 2 birth date of 8/22/1990. Subject stated he was 3 not carded when he entered the tavern. The 4 manager stated that everyone was carded when they 5 entered the tavern. Citation was issued to Stojan 6 Coralic for presence of minor at licensed 7 premises, guilty in Milwaukee Municipal Court, 8 $367 fine, and the date was 12/2/2009. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Are there 10 any questions or comments that you have relating 11 to the items in the police report? 12 MR. SHIKORA: No, except that we have 13 witnesses that will testify to things that are 14 contrary to what's in the police report. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. So you wish to 16 have them come forward at a later time here in the 17 hearing? 18 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. We will take them 19 one by one, the allegations. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Are there 21 questions that committee members have at this 22 time? 23 MR. SHIKORA: And I would object to the 24 police report as being hearsay. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, and I will duly 11 1 note that objection here, but we will rule that is 2 considered part of the hearing. 3 Alderman Zielinski. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, 5 members of the committee heard the police report. 6 What I'd like to do at this point in time is defer 7 my comments until after the people in the audience 8 have an opportunity to testify on these matters 9 and many other matters that they have firsthand 10 experience with. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Proceed as you 12 will. 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Dale. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And what I would ask 15 from all others here present is, unless you 16 physically are unable to, if you could please use 17 the standing microphone here. If physically you 18 need to sit down, we don't want to -- 19 We need you to state your name and 20 address for the record, please. 21 MR. TROSTORFF: Dale Robert Trostorff, 22 T-R-O-S-T-O-R double F, as in Frank, Frank, 23 address is 2685 South 13 Street. I'm also the 24 owner of the dual-use complex on 3000 South 13th 25 Street. 12 1 Firsthand knowledge of what goes on down 2 at the Brew House: One evening early summer, I 3 cannot give you a date, I sat in front of there at 4 closing time, didn't see any fights but seen a lot 5 of traffic jams, a lot of people screaming, a lot 6 of beer bottles and liquor bottles in the area. 7 In regards to my complex I own on 13th 8 and Manitoba, 3000 South 13th, I lost a tenant of 9 over a year because of the going-ons coming out of 10 that place with the police, with the gunshots, 11 with the fights coming down the middle of the 12 street. The end of August, one day they were 13 there; the next day they were gone. I've lost a 14 considerable amount of rental property because of 15 the stuff going on on 13th Street. I -- as you 16 know, with the economy, I cannot afford this. 17 Something's got to be done. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 19 committee members? Mr. Shikora, any questions, 20 either you or your client? 21 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. You don't have any 22 specific dates of when any of this happened, do 23 you? 24 MR. TROSTORFF: No, I don't. All I know 25 is it was warm out. Again, it wasn't the 13 1 gunshots, my lessee at my other business that I 2 own had called me countless times at closing time. 3 He is here to testify. I cannot testify to that, 4 it's hearsay. The only thing that I can testify 5 to is what I've seen the one night, personally, 6 again, in the summertime, and then losing of my 7 tenants, and their verbiage was because of the 8 gunshots. They have two small children. They 9 were feared for their life. 10 MR. SHIKORA: Object to that as hearsay. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Unless you personally 12 witnessed that, we will stricken that portion of 13 your testimony that relates to that. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I just 15 might note that Paragraph 11 of the complaint, 16 and, I believe, this is the only place where it is 17 mentioned, references the alderman's office, I 18 believe, having received numerous complaints from 19 residents: Fights, excessive noise, underage 20 drinking, disorderly conduct, littering, 21 loitering, shootings and drug dealing attributed 22 to the Brew House tavern. I don't believe there 23 is anything in there about losing tenants or -- 24 MR. TROSTORFF: That was my own 25 experience, sir. But I have called Alderman 14 1 Zielinski's office countless times in regards to 2 this. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And what Mr. Schrimpf is 4 saying is that cannot be considered as a means for 5 sanction against this license. 6 MR. TROSTORFF: I understand. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So ultimately, that 8 portion of your testimony here will be stricken 9 from the record. 10 MR. TROSTORFF: Okay. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Any 12 additional questions, Mr. Schrimpf? 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Nothing further. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you 15 for your testimony, sir. Next witness. 16 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Hello, my name is 17 Robert Montemayor. I live at 5770 Stephanie Lane, 18 Caledonia, Wisconsin. I -- 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Spelling of your last 20 name, sir. 21 MR. MONTEMAYOR: M as in Mary, 22 O-N-T-E-M-A-Y-O-R. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 24 MR. MONTEMAYOR: I, as well, same as 25 Dale, own several different properties at 2873 15 1 South 13th Street, also at 2901-05 South 13th 2 Street and 3014 South 13th Street. I, as well -- 3 actually the comment that you had mentioned as far 4 as the date, September, that you had talked about 5 shooting and fighting, I was actually there. As 6 far as I was up in my office on the fifth floor, 7 late. Because I live all the way in Caledonia, 8 sometimes I sleep in my office. And I witnessed 9 that fight between the two women that actually 10 threw the shoe at the other woman. And there was 11 another couple right behind them where they 12 actually snuck in between the building and a 13 fence, and they were doing some drug dealing 14 there. Now, at the time you want to take 15 videotape and whatnot, but you're thinking as 16 quickly as possible, but it was definite. 17 My tenants as well, as well, they're 18 scared. Have I lost tenants because of that? 19 Well, you know what, "It's too much of a problem, 20 we want to move." 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That portion of your 22 testimony now will be stricken from the record. 23 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, unless your 25 tenants are present, and your tenant says, "Hi, 16 1 I'm here, Mr. Tenant, and I have problems because 2 -- I left because --" you can't tell me anything 3 about anyone else other than what you personally 4 witnessed, okay? 5 MR. SHIKORA: I'd also move to strike 6 the testimony about the drug dealing. I don't 7 know that there is any firsthand knowledge of drug 8 dealing, maybe suspicions, but I don't think any 9 firsthand knowledge. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to accept, I'm 11 going to accept that testimony here. It is 12 noticed under Paragraph 11 in the complaint. And 13 he did indicate that he personally witnessed that. 14 Is that correct? 15 MR. MONTEMAYOR: That is correct. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So your request will be 17 duly noted here, but I will override that. Go 18 ahead. 19 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Okay. But that being 20 as well, I did witness the fighting. I mean, it's 21 just been an ongoing problem now for a lot of us 22 as being businessowners along the street, me being 23 one of them. And it's just from the breakage of 24 bottles, to the breaking into cars, to other, you 25 know, stuff. You know, people -- well, myself 17 1 witnessing as well, just all the litter on 13th 2 and Dakota, just many, many problems. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 4 testimony. Questions by committee? Mr. Shikora, 5 any questions? 6 MR. SHIKORA: You indicated you saw 7 somebody dealing drugs. Do you know what kind of 8 drugs they were dealing? 9 MR. MONTEMAYOR: I do not, sir. 10 MR. SHIKORA: Did you call the police? 11 MR. MONTEMAYOR: We have made several 12 different phone calls. 13 MR. SHIKORA: On that particular 14 incident, did you call the police and say, "I'm 15 watching -- 16 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Yes. 17 MR. SHIKORA: "-- I've seen a drug deal 18 go down"? 19 MR. MONTEMAYOR: I called that one 20 particular evening. As far as the timeframe, I 21 have all the timeframes as well. In fact, 22 Alderman Zielinski has the information as well for 23 that date. 24 MR. SHIKORA: Was anybody ever arrested 25 for drug dealing that you saw? 18 1 MR. MONTEMAYOR: At that time, the 2 police were not there at the time. I mean, by 3 that time, everybody had already left. 4 MR. SHIKORA: All right. Now, there are 5 other taverns in that neighborhood, aren't there? 6 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Yes, sir. 7 MR. SHIKORA: How many, do you know? 8 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Gosh, well, there's 9 Nick's, they're closed, they close at 7:00 p.m. 10 Actually, I think there is a -- well, there is the 11 bar, the sports -- well, I'm sorry, the -- what 12 used to be the Sports Connection over on 13th and 13 Manitoba. We saw that they came out of that 14 location, the Brew House. 15 MR. SHIKORA: Nothing further. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: When you refer to "we," 17 you mean "I"? 18 MR. MONTEMAYOR: I, correct. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 20 Thank you for your testimony, sir. 21 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 22 just had one of my constituents show up. He has 23 severe emphysema, and he wasn't -- we called him 24 to come down, he just came down. I was hoping he 25 could be sworn in, testify, and then we could let 19 1 him go home. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Bring him up. We can 3 swear him in here at the podium, unless he needs 4 to sit. 5 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Do you need to sit? 6 MR. ROBILLARD: No, I'm fine. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll swear him in. 8 MS. BLACK: Do you solemnly affirm under 9 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 10 Wisconsin that the testimony you are about to give 11 is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 12 truth? 13 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll need your name and 15 address for the record please. 16 MR. ROBILLARD: Steven Robillard, my 17 address is 2949 South 13th Street. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: 2949 South 13th, and if 19 you could spell your last name, Mr. Robillard? 20 MR. ROBILLARD: R-O-B-I-L-L-A-R-D. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And your 22 testimony, sir. 23 MR. ROBILLARD: Throughout the time that 24 the Brew House has been open, there has been 25 multiple screaming and hollering since the 20 1 business has been opened, fights, whatnot, loud 2 music playing. I have went over and talked to 3 Rick, the manager, about beer bottles and whatnot 4 being thrown on my lawn, about people defecating 5 on my front tree I have in my front yard. I also 6 have a video here of a shooting that occurred on 7 October 3rd when his bar was closing, and one of 8 his, I believe it's one of his employees was 9 standing right there when all this was going down. 10 And there have been, like I said, there 11 have been multiple shootings. Balistreri's, due 12 to one of the incidents, Balistreri's window was 13 shot out. The bullet had went through, through 14 the front window. It went through one of their 15 garbage cans, had hit into one of their 16 countertops. The bullet ended up in front of 17 their cash register. 18 Now, there has been multiple shootings. 19 I didn't get all of them on the recording, but I 20 was out there testifying when the police did come. 21 Because I did see a lot of stuff that had 22 happened. 23 I stand out by Libra Books, which is 24 right next door to me. And me and the person that 25 works there, we stand out there periodically just 21 1 to hear and see what's going on. And on this 2 particular incident where the shooting had 3 happened on October 3rd, after his bar closing, 4 just as he was going in, there were two shots 5 fired. While I, right away, shut off my 6 videocamera because I was afraid that I was going 7 to be in the line of fire. And by the time they 8 got down to 13th and Manitoba, it ended up being 9 another four shots that were fired. They fled off 10 in a vehicle, there were two vehicles. There were 11 at least 10 people, 10 to 12 people that were 12 standing and congregating in front of the One Stop 13 outlet. Which I had took the owner of the Brew 14 House, the building there, I had took him over 15 there to the One Stop, and they went back to 16 October 3rd on their videocamera, and you could 17 see the whole mob of people that were coming out 18 from his bar. 19 Now, Officer Haas, which is through the 20 6th District, had been waiting for this DVD, and I 21 have been calling him nonstop and hoping he'd get 22 into contact with me to get the video. And then 23 somebody, somebody from -- I don't know if it was 24 from the 6th District or what, but they had called 25 me, they wanted to get the DVD copy. And on 22 1 multiple times, I told them that their, One Stop's 2 camcorder, either their security system only holds 3 for 90 days, so from October 3rd, I was trying to 4 get a hold of the police so that they could go in 5 there and they could videotape the -- 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What I just want to say 7 is that I can appreciate that. That's sort of a 8 side issue to the complaint that's before us here. 9 So if you could just narrow in right now 10 and finish. 11 MR. ROBILLARD: Basically, it's been a 12 nuisance since they've been open. I mean, that's 13 the bottom line. I mean, with the multiple 14 gunshots that were out there several different 15 times, the people out there after bar closing with 16 their screaming and hollering, playing their loud 17 music. 18 I had seen one incident, I just had 19 missed videotaping of it. There was a vehicle 20 that was parked across the street that had pulled, 21 that was from the bar. He had went to his trunk, 22 opened it up -- I testified, I did call the police 23 that time, he had opened up his trunk, pulled out 24 a gallon-size Ziploc baggy that was full of 25 marijuana, and some people that he was with were 23 1 sitting in Balistreri's apartment, while me going 2 upstairs. And they were smoking marijuana there. 3 After that, by the time I got all the, everything 4 together, I mean, I did call the police for that, 5 but meanwhile, a fight had broken out and the car 6 had fled. They took off right away. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. 8 MR. ROBILLARD: I do have a DVD if 9 you're interested in seeing what had happened on 10 October 3rd, and you can hear two of the gunshots. 11 ALDERMAN KOVAC: How long is it? 12 MR. ROBILLARD: Probably about two 13 minutes long. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is it your desire to 15 take that in? 16 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Yeah, if it's only two 17 minutes. 18 MR. SHIKORA: Who taped it? 19 MR. ROBILLARD: I did. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That would have to be -- 21 those questions would have to be posed. 22 Alderman Kovac would move to make a 23 two-minute tape as provided by Mr. Robillard part 24 of our official record in this proceeding. Are 25 there any objections to that motion? 24 1 MR. SHIKORA: I object. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other than my own 3 objection, other than my own objection, and your 4 objection will be duly noted, and I'll concur that 5 it was -- unless that specifically was provided to 6 you, that is my objection. You have not received 7 proper due process notice of that particular piece 8 of evidence, but my objection fails. So if you 9 want to provide that copy here to us? 10 Now, here's, I mean, my other issue as 11 well, too, is that the attorney representing 12 and/or the applicant needs to be provided 13 sufficient time to view this to prepare for it, 14 first and foremost. Secondly, they should be also 15 provided a copy of that piece of evidence as well, 16 too, to even leave with after today. And that's 17 -- when we get these single copies, that's what, 18 among other items, that are at issue. 19 MR. ROBILLARD: They could keep that 20 copy. I have -- 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Now, Mr. Schrimpf, do 22 you want to just ask Mr. Robillard just a few 23 matters just in terms of who took the phototaping, 24 and so on and so forth, date and time? 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Be happy to. The 25 1 committee is about to see this videotape, and do 2 you know who the individual is that took the 3 video? 4 MR. ROBILLARD: I took the -- I was 5 doing the taping. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: And what does it purport 7 to show? 8 MR. ROBILLARD: It shows a mass amount 9 of people standing in front of the One Stop 10 outlet, which they were all congregating and kind 11 of motioning up and back, looked like they were 12 ready to fight. And by the time -- I was focusing 13 down on the other end of the street, by the time I 14 had turned back because some woman had walked past 15 me, she hollered out, "He's get a camcorder. He's 16 camcording." And the only thing I did is I turned 17 the camera quickly the other way to see what was 18 going on, and they were all disappeared from the 19 One Stop, and they were a few doors down. And 20 thereafter, two shots were fired. And then I -- 21 by the time the two shots were fired, I shut off 22 my camcorder, stepped back in further into a 23 dwelling so I wasn't out on the street. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, what does the One 25 Stop have to do with this bar? 26 1 MR. ROBILLARD: Well, this is where they 2 were all congregated in front of. They came from 3 the bar. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: And you saw them come 5 from the bar? 6 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes, I did. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: And was that prior to the 8 time that you started the videotaping? 9 MR. ROBILLARD: That was right at the 10 time when I did the videotaping. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: So does the bar appear in 12 the videotape? 13 MR. ROBILLARD: Just on, not exactly 14 when they were coming out, it was thereafter. It 15 was like a minute after they came out of the bar. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: And has anyone edited 17 this video after you took it? 18 MR. ROBILLARD: Just myself. I was 19 making a copy for the police, which I said, for 20 the 6th District for Officer Haas. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And you made the copies 22 of the DVD? 23 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes, I did. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: And that copy is a true 25 and correct copy -- 27 1 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes, it is. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: -- of the original? 3 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes, it is. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 5 Chair. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, while the 8 clerk is setting that up, I would note that the 9 police report which was read into the record 10 reflects the incident of October 3rd. 11 (Video shown.) 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Early on in the 16 video, probably about ten seconds in, it seems as 17 if it was cut. 18 MR. ROBILLARD: No, I stopped when the 19 two shots were fired. I stopped because I was -- 20 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No, early on, when 21 the video first started, it was initially zeroed 22 in on the front of the club. 23 MR. ROBILLARD: Right. 24 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Then it went to the 25 people in front of One Stop. But to me, it didn't 28 1 look like a transition, it looked like a cut. 2 MR. ROBILLARD: Well, what happened was 3 I had paused the camera in between time. Because 4 like I say, every night there is always something 5 going on, there is people congregating. So it 6 didn't seem like it was anything out of the 7 ordinary. So I stopped camcording, and then as 8 soon as I noticed that they were all over there, I 9 had took and moved my camera back over to that 10 direction. 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 13 committee? 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I just wanted to know 17 from the licensee if they have anything to say 18 about that incident? It appears if you -- I'm 19 sorry, what's your name again? . 20 MR. ARTEAGA: Ricardo Arteaga. 21 MR. SHIKORA: He's the manager. 22 MR. CORALIC: He's the manager. He is 23 all the time there. 24 MR. ARTEAGA: This happened at the 25 corner, and I'm not saying that they did not come 29 1 from this bar on this, October -- what is that, 2 10/3/09, that's what the police officer came back 3 and said, that the passenger of the car said when 4 they finally got them pulled over, that they came 5 from the bar. But, I mean, from my understanding 6 is, it happened up around the corner of the bar. 7 I mean, that's what happened. I'm not disputing 8 that they may have came from the bar on that day. 9 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: How does your bar 10 handle people exiting, like, what is your process? 11 Because it seemed like a lot of people were kind 12 of loitering. So how do you handle -- 13 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah, after this incident 14 happened, we had a meeting with Captain Young down 15 at the district, and he wanted to know, he had the 16 nuisance hearing and all that, he wanted to see 17 how we were going to get this resolved. And part 18 of the things that we've done is we have actually 19 sent out security all the way up the block, and 20 kind of get people going, you know. At that 21 point, you know, nothing like that had happened. 22 So I mean, right now we're sending security up and 23 down the street. It's a very busy street. There 24 are multiple bars up and down, and they are 25 all busy, so. 30 1 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just by -- could you 3 provide a spelling of your name? 4 MR. ARTEAGA: Ricardo, R-I-C-A-R-D-O, 5 last name, Arteaga, A-R-T-E-A-G-A. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Were there 7 additional questions by committee? Mr. Shapiro? 8 MR. SHIKORA: Shikora. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Shikora, sorry. 10 MR. SHIKORA: You don't know that 11 whoever did the shooting was, had been a patron of 12 the Brew House, do you? 13 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes, I do. 14 MR. SHIKORA: How do you know that? 15 MR. ROBILLARD: I went into One Stop and 16 I watched the videotape along with the owner of, 17 the owner of the Brew House, and the apartment 18 dwellings and the other, the restaurant that's 19 there. And we had both watched the video, and he 20 saw as well as I did, on the video that they all 21 came out from the Brew House. 22 MR. CORALIC: When we show that video, 23 what they show, it's not video what you've been 24 taping. That's video that's next-door neighbor. 25 MR. ROBILLARD: Right. It's the 31 1 next-door neighbor, it's coming down -- 2 MR. CORALIC: What about video you've 3 been taping? 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: One moment please. 5 MR. SHIKORA: This -- 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on, hold on, even 7 you. First off, there's a couple things: My 8 rules are one person speaks at a time. Two is, 9 when you want to speak, you ask for recognition of 10 the chair, and I either acknowledge you or I point 11 to you and say, "Yes, you may speak," or, "No, you 12 may not. No, you may not." Hold on please, okay? 13 No outbursts, please. 14 If you want to raise a question, you may 15 do so. You may say, "I question that. Are you 16 sure that wasn't on the case?" But what I'm going 17 to ask you to do is, no outbursts. Did you have 18 an opportunity to adequately answer that question? 19 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes. 20 MR. SHIKORA: Did the police ever charge 21 anybody with that shooting? 22 MR. ROBILLARD: I don't, I don't know 23 for sure. I know that the vehicle was involved in 24 a six-car pileup on 13th and Rogers. I know also 25 it was a stolen vehicle. One car had gotten away. 32 1 There were two vehicles that were involved. As 2 you can see, there were multiple people that were 3 in there. They were both parked in front of the 4 old True Value store, and by the time the police 5 came, they had actually bypassed the car. They 6 went ahead of it, and they had to make a U-turn to 7 get back around. But by the time they turned 8 around, the other vehicle had left, going 9 eastbound, or westbound on Montana, or Manitoba. 10 The other car had went down 13th Street. 11 MR. SHIKORA: But whoever fired the 12 shots, you don't know, right? 13 MR. ROBILLARD: I don't know. 14 MR. SHIKORA: The police don't know. 15 MR. ROBILLARD: I don't know. 16 MR. SHIKORA: And you don't know whether 17 the person that fired the shots came out of the 18 Brew House tavern, right? 19 MR. ROBILLARD: Well, they came from 20 that side of the street. And looking at -- 21 MR. SHIKORA: No, answer my question. 22 MR. ROBILLARD: They came out from on 23 that side of the street from the Brew House. 24 MR. SHIKORA: You didn't see that 25 individual come out of the Brew House, did you? 33 1 MR. ROBILLARD: No, but I was standing 2 directly -- 3 MR. SHIKORA: Because you don't know who 4 it was. 5 MR. ROBILLARD: I was standing -- no, I 6 don't know who it was. As you can see, when you 7 look at the videotape, as you can see, I was 8 motioning down the other way. Because, like I 9 said, when these people stand out there and 10 congregate amongst each other, it's something on a 11 normal basis. So I wasn't focusing directly on 12 that because I didn't think that anything was 13 going on at the time. And when I had turned down, 14 going down toward Dakota with my camera, 15 videotaping down that way, that's when, as you 16 heard in the video, the woman had walked past and 17 she screamed out, "He's got a camcorder. He's 18 videotaping." And when I turned my focus back on 19 there, they were, the whole mob of people were 20 already gone. They were two doors down. And the 21 four individuals that were looking at me, they 22 were staring directly at me because they saw that 23 I had the videocamera. 24 MR. SHIKORA: But you don't know who 25 came out of the Brew House or who didn't, do you? 34 1 MR. ROBILLARD: No, but like I had 2 explained, I had went -- 3 MR. SHIKORA: That's all. You answered 4 my question. That's all. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 6 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Just to dovetail on 7 the previous question here. Sir, did you have an 8 opportunity to read the police report where it 9 stated, "The bar patrons were standing in the 10 street, stopping their cars in the street and 11 playing loud music prior to the gunshots. They 12 heard multiple gunshots in the area where patrons 13 from the Brew House were congregating." Did you 14 read that? 15 MR. ROBILLARD: Yes. 16 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Okay. Another last 17 question. How many times have you contacted my 18 office about repeated problems with drugs, 19 shootings, fights? 20 MR. ROBILLARD: At least 15 to 20 times. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Follow-up question to 22 that, 15 to 20 times, how many times since last 23 spring, and I'll say since May? 24 MR. ROBILLARD: 15 to 20 times. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So all of the times in 35 1 which you contacted Alderman Zielinski would have 2 been in the last half-year, two-thirds of the 3 year? 4 MR. ROBILLARD: Right, correct. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Very good. Thank you. 6 Thank you for your testimony here. Next witness. 7 And if the others who intend to provide testimony 8 here, if you could take a couple seats in the 9 front row, I would appreciate that. Your name and 10 your address for the record. 11 MR. PESCH: Ian Pesch. My address is 12 4568 South 13th Street. I'm a tenant of Dale 13 Trostorff who testified earlier at 3000 South 13th 14 Street. I own Liquor Suites, what's formerly 15 Liquor Suites, which is under a new name right 16 now. And all of the testimony that was given, as 17 far as I'm concerned, is accurate, that I've heard 18 so far. I've witnessed myself personally, 19 probably shootings, probably over three to five 20 times. 21 I don't think that the police report 22 that I read today is even representative to all of 23 the things that I have witnessed. I've called the 24 police probably a dozen times in the last six 25 months. Response time early on was very poor, so 36 1 when I'd call the police for a shooting or a large 2 fight in the road, it would be sometimes 12 to 15 3 minutes before squads would arrive. Well, a lot 4 of times a fight happens and a big fight happens, 5 guns go off and everybody runs away, and 12 to 15 6 minutes later, the police show up and it looks 7 like nothing is going on. And that's why I say 8 the stuff that we have from the police report is 9 accurate, but there is a lot more things that the 10 police got there so late that there was nothing 11 going on, everybody had ran away. 12 Now, since the 6th District has taken 13 over, the response time, to their, you know, to 14 their defense, is much better, like three to five 15 minutes. It's not 12 to 15 minutes. So later on 16 in the year, after the 6th District moved in, we 17 had a lot more, you know, I guess incidents 18 recorded because their response time was so much 19 shorter. We commend that, and we're really happy. 20 But all of the gunfights -- I have witnessed three 21 to five, it was either three or four, I would say, 22 gunfights in the middle of the road. 23 I've lost business from it. I don't 24 know if I can say that. I am a tenant of Mr. 25 Trostorff, so I told him I have to maybe leave my 37 1 business. My attendance is way down. I run a 2 large, very large, banquet facility there. I do 3 weddings, I do large crowds. I have been there 4 for two years, I haven't had the police at my 5 establishment one time, not one time in two years. 6 And I do crowds of 200 to 400 people every Friday 7 and Saturday night on 13th and Manitoba. I don't 8 get one police call there. 9 Now, I understand, I've been in this 10 business since 1993, fights happen where there in 11 bars. It happens, it's inevitable. You serve 12 liquor to people, the likelihood of a fight 13 happening is higher than at a park, okay. So I 14 understand fist fights happen. But when it starts 15 getting into gunfights, something has to happen. 16 You can't have gunfights in the middle of the road 17 every night at closing. My patrons stopped 18 coming. Most of these gunfights occurred between 19 maybe 1:30, 2:30, when all my patrons were kind of 20 leaving. And they are all running back in diving 21 for shelter, hiding in, you know, coming, 20 22 people coming back in. You know what, Facebook 23 and Twitter, that gets right out. They go home, 24 "Oh, yeah, I was at that Liquor Suites, oh, yeah. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Were getting a little 38 1 aside here. 2 MR. PESCH: I'm just telling my impact 3 of my -- my business is gone. I had to close my 4 business. I had to close it and completely 5 reformat it because none of my patrons will come 6 there. I am no longer Liquor Suites. I closed. 7 Dale will testify to that. I closed. My patrons 8 will not come after four, three to five shootings 9 at closing time. That gets -- that word travels, 10 like, bad, and it's gonna, and I'm down to -- I 11 was down to zero. Nobody would come anymore. I 12 had to close. So I'm sorry, I'm excited. I've 13 lost, lost a considerable amount of effort that 14 I've put into developing my business, it's gone. 15 And that's why I'm upset. But I -- 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 17 testimony. Questions by committee? Mr. Shikora? 18 MR. SHIKORA: What kind of business was 19 it that you were running? What kind of business? 20 MR. PESCH: It's licensed as a bar, 21 tavern, Class "B" Tavern. 22 MR. SHIKORA: And you've seen people get 23 intoxicated in your tavern in the past, haven't 24 you? 25 MR. PESCH: Yes. 39 1 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. And you can't 2 always control everything they do, right? 3 MR. PESCH: No. 4 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. I have nothing 5 further. 6 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 8 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: You're licensed as 9 a bar. How many incidents on a police report do 10 you have involving gunfire? 11 MR. PESCH: None. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. 13 MR. SHIKORA: Object and move that that 14 be stricken as irrelevant material. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to override 16 that and accept that. I think there was a 17 comparison. You were raising your very own 18 comparisons as to his operation of a bar whether 19 people get drunk. I think that that was valid 20 given the nature of your question. 21 Thank you for your testimony, sir. Next 22 witness, please. 23 MR. ESTRADA: Dan Estrada, 24 E-S-T-R-A-D-A, and I reside at 2726 South 13th 25 Street. I'm also an employee for Dale Trostorff 40 1 at one of his establishments. I'm head of 2 security there. 3 I witnessed, on the 3rd of October, the 4 car being chased by police officers as I was 5 walking a patron out of one of Dale's 6 establishments. And I just -- that is pretty much 7 all I witnessed from the Brew House. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. 9 Questions by committee? Mr. Shikora, questions? 10 MR. SHIKORA: How long have you been 11 employed there as a -- 12 MR. ESTRADA: I have been employed as 13 head of security for Dale Trostorff at the 14 establishment for over four years. 15 MR. SHIKORA: All right. And the 16 October 3, '09, incident is the only one you ever 17 witnessed? 18 MR. ESTRADA: That was noted from the 19 Brew House, yes. 20 MR. SHIKORA: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Next witness, please. 23 MR. GAWLICK: Bret Gawlick, 24 G-A-W-L-I-C-K, 6829 West Lisbon Avenue, head of 25 security for Liquor Suites. 41 1 And I have witnessed quite a lot. I'm 2 the one that has to deal with the patrons coming 3 out of their establishment because their security 4 is neglective of telling everybody to start to 5 leave. Um, I can tell you on numerous occasions 6 that I've had to deal with their clients. I stay 7 right outside of our building dealing with our 8 clients and their clients to get everybody going 9 so that our neighborhood can be quiet and everyone 10 can go to sleep. 11 I am in numerous amounts of these police 12 reports. My name is listed in there as being one 13 of the witnesses. I will tell you that it has 14 been a nuisance. It is not safe for the 15 neighborhood. I can tell you of all the fights. 16 I can tell you of a car, of someone that actually 17 did come right out from the club, walk to his 18 vehicle, get into his vehicle, smash into another 19 vehicle and take off. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And approximately when 21 did this occur? 22 MR. GAWLICK: Ah, that would have been 23 -- of the police report, that would have been on 24 9/27/2009. 25 I will also tell you that there is 42 1 someone that has under oath said that they have 2 their security tell everyone to please leave; they 3 do not. I will attest to that and say that their 4 security normally just stays in the door, or there 5 is no security outside the premises. 6 It's just, it has been to the fact 7 where, like my boss has said, people don't want to 8 come, they think it's too unsafe. You know, and 9 if I have to deal with our club, I don't have time 10 to be dealing with their club, and that seems like 11 what's been going on. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 13 committee? Mr. Shikora, questions from you? 14 MR. SHIKORA: In your job, how long were 15 you head of security for that company? 16 MR. GAWLICK: Two-and-a-half years. 17 MR. SHIKORA: And you've had unruly 18 people in your establishment also, haven't you? 19 MR. GAWLICK: Not many, but yes, we 20 have. It goes along with the business, sir. 21 MR. SHIKORA: Right. And then you have 22 to try to control it, right? 23 MR. GAWLICK: That is correct. 24 MR. SHIKORA: Nothing further. 25 MR. ARTEAGA: I have a question, would I 43 1 be able to ask? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 3 MR. ARTEAGA: How would you know who was 4 on security patrolling the block up and down? 5 MR. GAWLICK: Because most of your 6 security guys either have a security shirt -- 7 MR. ARTEAGA: Okay -- 8 MR. GAWLICK: Okay, and that's usually 9 how you can distinguish your security at your 10 establishment. 11 MR. ARTEAGA: Okay, have you ever seen 12 me go up and down that block? 13 MR. GAWLICK: I've seen you a few times 14 yourself go up there. I'm under oath. Yes. 15 MR. ARTEAGA: Okay, and -- 16 MR. GAWLICK: But I have not seen your 17 security. 18 MR. ARTEAGA: Ever? 19 MR. GAWLICK: Ever, go up and down that 20 block. 21 MR. ARTEAGA: And you're out there every 22 single night? 23 MR. GAWLICK: Yes, that's correct, I am. 24 You know my face. 25 MR. ARTEAGA: I actually do not know 44 1 your face. 2 MR. GAWLICK: Yeah, I'm under oath. 3 MR. ARTEAGA: No more questions. 4 MR. SHIKORA: Did you ever see Mr. 5 Coralic out on the street? 6 MR. GAWLICK: Not that I remember, no. 7 MR. SHIKORA: Around closing time? 8 MR. GAWLICK: No, sir. 9 MR. SHIKORA: You don't know if he was 10 or wasn't, correct? 11 MR. GAWLICK: Correct. 12 MR. SHIKORA: Okay, that's all. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you. 14 Next witness, please, 15 MR. COUSERT: Hi, my name is Michael 16 Cousert, last name, C as in cat, O-U-S-E-R-T. I 17 live at 2724 South 13th Street, Apartment D. I 18 was an on-call bartender for Liquor Suites when 19 Liquor Suites was open. I'm also a daytime 20 bartender for the Hillside. I live right there in 21 the neighborhood. I walk everywhere I go. 22 Um, on the 25th of August, or September 23 it was, I was leaving Liquor Suites because I 24 didn't need to work. I'm walking down 13th Street 25 to head home. As I approached the Brew House, 45 1 there is two security guards standing outside at 2 the door, past them about 20, 30 feet, there's two 3 gentlemen standing outside of an SUV, door open, 4 both of them had one-liter bottles of booze in 5 their hands, standing there drinking. I'm walking 6 past these gentlemen, and they're like, "Got a 7 problem?" Said, "I got no problem," just kept 8 walking. Security was, like I said, 20, 30 feet 9 away. 10 Now, working in bars, I've been in the 11 bar business working bars most of my life. If 12 you've got security standing outside, somebody 13 standing outside drinking, you don't want that. 14 Especially, you know, you got a one-liter bottle 15 of booze, each of them got a bottle of booze in 16 their hands, drinking. Nobody is doing nothing. 17 Turn around, I go home. I'm not going to deal 18 with it. I head home. 19 The next night, similar situation, but 20 there was an argument. And that was the night of 21 the big fight with the two girls. I noticed that 22 there was a big group of people outside the Brew 23 House. I'm leaving Liquor Suites, I said, you 24 know what, I'm not even going to deal with this. 25 I took and walked down the alley between 12th and 46 1 13th Street because it just looked like something 2 was brewing. About ten minutes later, I get a 3 phone call, "Hey, are you okay, because shots were 4 fired on the street?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm fine." 5 So but, just all the goings-on over 6 there -- it's, you know, everybody is trying to 7 clean up 13th Street, and that bar there is not 8 helping, not helping at all. Most of the taverns 9 are closing at 7:00. Like Ian had said, his 10 business fell off. You know, a lot of us will end 11 up losing our job because you couldn't -- there is 12 no reason for us to be there anymore, because, you 13 know, you didn't need more than one bartender, 14 even though he's got the biggest bar on the south 15 side of Milwaukee, you know. So that's all I have 16 to say. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 18 committee? Mr. Shikora, questions of this 19 witness? 20 MR. SHIKORA: You, of course, being in 21 the bar business most of your life, you realize 22 that people do get intoxicated in the bars? 23 MR. COUSERT: Of course, sure. 24 MR. SHIKORA: And they get unruly? 25 MR. COUSERT: Sure. 47 1 MR. SHIKORA: And you have to try to 2 manage it the best you can, right? 3 MR. COUSERT: Yep. 4 MR. SHIKORA: That's all the questions I 5 have. 6 MR. ARTEAGA: I have a question. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, sir, 8 MR. ARTEAGA: On that night of September 9 when you said there was the group of people 10 fighting, when the officer came, I was the one who 11 actually went up to the officer and spoke to the 12 officer. I'm the one -- there were two girls out 13 there that were actually in a fight. Where did 14 you see this big group? Because there was only 15 two girls. 16 MR. COUSERT: When I -- 17 MR. ARTEAGA: I'm actually the one that 18 had to go that day. 19 MR. COUSERT: When I walked out, I 20 walked out of Liquor Suites at the side entrance 21 and exit, walked out, walked up onto 13th Street, 22 seen a big group of people up there, seen people 23 yelling. And I didn't even go, I didn't even get 24 as far as the One Stop shop. I went around and 25 went down the alley. I just walked down the alley 48 1 to the next block down and then came out, and I 2 kept going, 3 MR. ARTEAGA: Because this group of 4 people could have been from one of the many 5 apartment buildings that are above. 6 MR. COUSERT: Well, the fact of -- and 7 living in the area as long as I've lived there, 8 and working on 13th Street as long as I have, 9 pretty much you can tell the difference on who is 10 from the Brew House and who is not. 11 MR. ARTEAGA: How would you be able to 12 tell that? 13 MR. COUSERT: Well, the Brew House being 14 that it became a, more or less, a hip-hop club, 15 your customers are mostly African American. 16 MR. ARTEAGA: Have you ever been inside 17 the Brew House? 18 MR. COUSERT: No. 19 MR. ARTEAGA: Do you ever listen to the 20 music? 21 MR. COUSERT: Yes, when I'm walking 22 past, you can't help but hear the music. When 23 you're yards away, you can't help but hear the 24 music because you got the doors open, windows 25 open. 49 1 MR. ARTEAGA: Without being inside, 2 you're able to tell whether it's hip-hop music 3 that was being played? 4 MR. COUSERT: Yes. 5 MR. ARTEAGA: Okay. I have no more 6 questions. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you 8 for your testimony. Were there any other 9 individuals that are here to testify? One 10 additional, you have not yet been sworn in. We 11 will swear you in. 12 MS. BLACK: Do you solemnly affirm under 13 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 14 Wisconsin the testimony you are about to give is 15 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 16 truth? 17 MS. ZARATE: I do. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll need your name and 19 address for the record, please. 20 MS. ZARATE: Sarah Zarate, 3247 South 21 14th Street. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, 23 please. 24 MS. ZARATE: I don't have any specifics, 25 but I've lived here for the last 15 years and 50 1 since this bar has been there, you could actually 2 see the, like, physical deterioration of the 3 neighborhood. There is just bad groups that hang 4 out there. 5 I used to walk to a restaurant that's 6 two doors away all the time. It's my favorite 7 place. I used to go there four days a week. I 8 can't go there anymore because I'm so scared of 9 the people that hang around there. They yell 10 obscene things. Late at night when they get out, 11 they zoom out of there. I mean, it's really just 12 dangerous. It's really bad, just a general 13 comment. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 15 testimony. Questions by committee? Mr. Shikora, 16 questions of this witness? 17 MR. SHIKORA: You don't know if all of 18 the rowdy people that are around that area, you 19 don't know if they are all patrons of the Brew 20 House tavern, do you? 21 MS. ZARATE: You can indeed tell. I 22 have been there for the last 15 years. There are 23 tons of bars down that street. You do not see 24 these groups hanging out like you do in your 25 place. I'm sorry to tell you. 51 1 MR. SHIKORA: Nothing further. 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Where are you 5 presently employed and in what capacity? 6 MS. ZARATE: I work for Alderman 7 Murphy's office. 8 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Questions? 10 No other questions. Thank you. Are there any 11 others? No others here to provide testimony? 12 Alderman Zielinski, was there anything else that 13 you wish to raise forward in terms of your 14 complaint? 15 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I think everything 16 has been stated. I would like to make my closing 17 comments at the appropriate time. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let me just provide the 19 ability here for Mr. Shikora to respond to 20 anything else. Would you, do you have any other 21 individuals that you wish to provide testimony 22 here, Mr. Shikora? 23 MR. SHIKORA: Yes, we have witnesses. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm sorry? 25 MR. SHIKORA: We have witnesses. 52 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Why don't we 2 bring them forward here at this point here. 3 MR. SHIKORA: We have -- 4 MR. ARTEAGA: One of our witnesses is 5 currently under the weather, she is coughing a 6 lot. I think that's probably why she -- 7 MR. SHIKORA: Then we'll wait for her to 8 be the last one. 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, 10 while -- 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I just remembered, 13 we have the captain of the 6th Police District 14 here. And I think he would be happy to share his 15 perspective on the situation while waiting for the 16 other people to testify. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Was he sworn in here at 18 this point? 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I don't believe so, 20 Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Captain Young, do you 22 want to just come forward here? What I want to 23 say is this much, you know, I'll accept his 24 testimony, but when I do swear people in, I've 25 always had this policy of not wanting to -- I 53 1 mean, literally, we could always get everybody on 2 the phone and have people start calling people and 3 start saying, "Come on in, come on in," two hours 4 from now, I mean, I do want to keep this within 5 reasonable parameters. 6 Captain, raise your right hand, we'll 7 swear you in. 8 MS. BLACK: Do you solemnly affirm under 9 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 10 Wisconsin the testimony you are about to give is 11 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 12 truth? 13 CAPTAIN YOUNG: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could provide us 15 your name and your position with the police 16 department? 17 CAPTAIN YOUNG: Michael Young. I'm a 18 captain at the 6th District Milwaukee Police 19 Department. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, 21 Captain Young. 22 CAPTAIN YOUNG: My testimony is this: 23 I've been the captain of the 6th District since 24 April 1, '09. We took over the redistricting July 25 12th. We took over the area where the Brew House 54 1 tavern is located. And since I have been there, 2 this is really the only problematic tavern I have 3 in my district. My officers have been to this 4 tavern more than any other bar. I use quite a few 5 police resources responding to the tavern there 6 for -- well, they go there every night when they 7 are open to see that order is maintained. 8 We've had reports of shots fired. One 9 night the patrons, after one of the fights, left 10 the bar in a reckless manner. My officers had to 11 try and catch up to them. There was a short 12 pursuit, there was a car accident. One of my 13 officers was injured. 14 The one day we did an inspection there 15 with the state liquor inspector. There was 16 numerous bottles of liquor that weren't properly 17 purchased; not by a wholesaler, but from the 18 store. 19 The owner and manager seem like very 20 nice people. I met with them in my office. But 21 it's just that we believe that, I don't know if 22 it's inexperience or just overwhelmed there, but 23 the tavern is just not run in an orderly manner. 24 Especially as it pertains to the people when they 25 get outside, there's just too much loitering in 55 1 the neighborhood, too much noise, too much 2 disorder. It's a dangerous area. I'm using too 3 many resources over there, and I can use them in 4 other areas. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 6 committee? Mr. Shikora, questions? 7 MR. SHIKORA: No questions except that I 8 would object to the testimony where the officer is 9 giving his opinion. If he testifies to the facts 10 that's one thing; his opinions are another. 11 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, if I 12 may respond to that. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 14 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: The captain is 15 testifying in his capacity as a captain of that 16 district. And if he is saying that he is getting 17 more police investment, more police resources at 18 that particular location than any other location 19 in his entire district, that's fact, that's not 20 his opinion. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, I'm going to 22 accept the testimony based on the expertise of the 23 captain provided that has knowledge of how he 24 delineates his resources and sends out his 25 resources in the district. So your objection will 56 1 be duly noted, and I will override that. Thank 2 you. Anything else, Mr. Shikora? 3 MR. SHIKORA: With this witness, no. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, sir. Mr. 5 Arteaga. 6 MR. ARTEAGA: When we met with you for 7 the nuisance that we received after we handed in 8 our course-of-action plan, which was accepted by 9 your -- I don't know who accepts it, but it was 10 accepted by you. 11 CAPTAIN YOUNG: Yes. It was me. 12 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah. It has gotten 13 better. Would you agree with that? 14 CAPTAIN YOUNG: I don't know if it's 15 gotten better because of your actions or the cold 16 weather. Because it's cold out there and people 17 don't like to loiter when it's cold. So I cannot 18 say whether it's because of your actions or 19 because of the weather. 20 MR. ARTEAGA: All right. No more 21 questions. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But Captain, would you 23 argue that you have seen a reduction, based on 24 your knowledge that there has been a reduction, in 25 the loitering in the recent last couple months? 57 1 CAPTAIN YOUNG: You know, there has been 2 a reduction, yes. Whether it's their actions, the 3 weather or my officers' actions and our continued 4 presence there, you know, a lot of resources are 5 being invested, and I guess I could pull out 6 and -- I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to 7 pull out of the neighborhood. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: See if the police calls 9 go up in the neighborhood. 10 CAPTAIN YOUNG: I don't have that 11 choice. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. Captain, when 15 was this "plan of action" submitted? 16 CAPTAIN YOUNG: I don't have the dates 17 here. We had the meeting, it was like two days 18 later after I met with them, they submitted the 19 plan. 20 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: In your position as 23 captain of the 6th Police District, in your 24 professional opinion, should this license be 25 revoked, and would it be beneficial to you and the 58 1 allocation of resources to other parts of the 2 district that need the police presence? 3 MR. SHIKORA: I -- again, I would object 4 to that question. The question of whether or not 5 the license should be revoked or suspended is for 6 this committee to determine, not the officer. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah, and I will, I will 8 accept that, and we'll stricken that particular 9 question. And the police department is not coming 10 forward as a party seeking revocation here. All 11 right. 12 MR. SHIKORA: That's all. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Thank you, 14 Captain. Did you have an opportunity to have your 15 witness -- 16 MR. SHIKORA: Yeah, we'll start with 17 Mr. Arteaga. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 19 MR. SHIKORA: State your name. 20 MR. ARTEAGA: Ricardo D. Arteaga. 21 MR. SHIKORA: And your address. 22 MR. ARTEAGA: 10431 West St. Francis 23 Avenue, that's Greenfield, Wisconsin. 24 MR. SHIKORA: All right. You are the 25 manager of the Brew House tavern? 59 1 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 2 MR. SHIKORA: And are you there every 3 day? 4 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes, I am. 5 MR. SHIKORA: From what hours? 6 MR. ARTEAGA: From open to close, three 7 days a week. 8 MR. SHIKORA: And how long have you been 9 so employed? 10 MR. ARTEAGA: It's been about a year, 11 year-and-a-half now, if not a little longer than 12 that. 13 MR. SHIKORA: And normally, how many 14 bartenders are present? 15 MR. ARTEAGA: There's two, sometimes 16 three. 17 MR. SHIKORA: Including you? 18 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah, I kind of -- I've 19 been more at the door now then ever before, but, 20 yeah. 21 MR. SHIKORA: How many security guards 22 are employed there? 23 MR. ARTEAGA: On Fridays and Saturdays, 24 I have five. On Thursdays, I'm at four now. 25 MR. SHIKORA: And the rest of the week? 60 1 MR. ARTEAGA: That's it, I'm only open 2 three nights a week. 3 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. You heard the 4 testimony, the prior witness, about a 5 course-of-action plan that was agreed upon? 6 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 7 MR. SHIKORA: And who created the plan? 8 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, me and Stojan, 9 together. 10 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. Mr. Coralic? 11 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 12 MR. SHIKORA: And then, where did you go 13 with that plan? 14 MR. ARTEAGA: What do you mean "where 15 did I go"? 16 MR. SHIKORA: Who did you see about it? 17 Who did you take it to? 18 MR. ARTEAGA: Oh, we gave it to the 19 community liaison officer, I think his name is 20 Felix. 21 MR. SHIKORA: Felix? 22 MR. ARTEAGA: Felix, yeah. I have his 23 name somewhere around here. 24 MR. SHIKORA: So a liaison officer from 25 the police department? 61 1 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 2 MR. SHIKORA: And did you go over it 3 with him? 4 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 5 MR. SHIKORA: Did he show you his 6 approval of it? 7 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, I think it's 8 actually the captain's, if he approves of it. I 9 think he just brings it back to him. It was 10 turned in to him though. 11 MR. SHIKORA: And did you receive any 12 other suggestions other than what you had in this 13 document? 14 MR. ARTEAGA: No, not too much. 15 MR. SHIKORA: So did you take it that 16 the powers that be were pleased with the plan you 17 had drawn up? 18 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 19 MR. SHIKORA: I'd like to file a copy of 20 that and make it a part of the record. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is an abatement 22 plan that was produced? Was this as a result of 23 80-10 action? 24 MR. SHIKORA: This was the result of the 25 October 14, 2009, Stojan Coralic was sent a 62 1 nuisance notification letter pursuant to Section 2 80-10, Milwaukee Code of Ordinances, and in 3 response to that letter, this document was drawn 4 up. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Shikora, when was 6 that again? When was this submitted to -- 7 MR. SHIKORA: Shortly after October 14, 8 2009. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 10 Alderman Hamilton would move to make the two-page 11 plan of operation submitted by Mr. Shikora part of 12 our official record in this proceeding. And are 13 there any objections to that? Hearing none, so 14 ordered. Thank you. Please proceed. 15 MR. SHIKORA: Now, going through the 16 various allegations in the affidavit, there is an 17 indication that on February 6, 2009, the police 18 recovered a 45-caliber gun at the tavern and 19 arrested a patron. That situation, there has 20 already been a 20-day suspension of the license 21 for the Brew House, because of that, right? 22 MR. ARTEAGA: Ten-day suspension, yes. 23 MR. SHIKORA: So going on from there, on 24 May 9th where the allegation is that shots were 25 fired outside of the Brew House tavern and a 63 1 patron of the tavern sustained a gunshot wound, do 2 you know where that shooting happened? 3 MR. ARTEAGA: I know where it happened, 4 yeah. It was about maybe five buildings up from 5 where we are, south of there. 6 MR. SHIKORA: All right. Do you know 7 whether or not any of the people involved were 8 patrons of the tavern? 9 MR. ARTEAGA: No, I do not. 10 MR. SHIKORA: With respect to the 11 September 27, 2009, where there was an argument 12 outside the tavern, or an argument -- the 13 allegation there was an argument inside the 14 establishment, your tavern, and that other persons 15 leaving the establishment caused a disturbance by 16 yelling obscenities and impeding traffic. What do 17 you know about that situation? 18 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, like I said before, 19 I was the actual one that spoke to the police 20 officer when she came. That did happen. I was 21 the one who had the ladies leave. As far as the 22 people causing disturbances with the traffic and 23 everything, that was right at bar closing time. 24 So there was some people crossing the street when 25 the officer was there. I mean, the officer was 64 1 there in probably ten minutes after these ladies 2 had already left. But this was closing time, and 3 there was people crossing the street probably 4 going to their cars. 5 MR. SHIKORA: All right. In the October 6 3rd allegations are that the Milwaukee police 7 officers responded to the Brew House tavern for 8 shots fired. What do you know about that 9 situation? 10 MR. ARTEAGA: The only thing I know is 11 that there was shots fired, and from -- I don't 12 know who or what. I mean, this happened a block 13 away. Just from what this says, that the 14 passenger said they were leaving the Brew House, I 15 mean, there was no fight, no altercation, I mean, 16 inside or even half-a-block up. To tell you the 17 truth, I mean, I don't know more than what I told 18 the officer that night, because I did speak with 19 him. 20 MR. SHIKORA: On October 11th, the 21 allegation is that during a tavern check, one of 22 the patrons was under the age of 21. What can you 23 tell us about that? 24 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, when I spoke to my 25 security officer, or my security guard that was at 65 1 the door at the time, this was before I 2 implemented the -- I have an ID scanner that 3 actually takes pictures of everybody's ID. This 4 was one of the reasons I did it. And he actually 5 said that the person that he was letting in was 6 going to get his ride, and I know it's wrong, he 7 actually was fired for that reason. 8 But now, I'm actually the one who is 9 actually at the door all the time. I'm the second 10 person that, you know, double checks IDs. I mean, 11 that's what happened. I mean, it's right here. 12 MR. SHIKORA: And then there is an 13 allegation on November 8th, Milwaukee police 14 officers issued a citation for disorderly conduct 15 to a patron of the Brew House. Do you know 16 anything about that? 17 MR. ARTEAGA: I believe this was when 18 one of the patrons was leaving, she was being very 19 loud. We were trying to calm her down and tell 20 her that she had to be quiet because of the 21 neighbors. Um, then a police officer drove by, I 22 kind of waved him down. And she wouldn't stop. 23 That's why, I mean, they were -- they actually 24 gave her about ten chances to leave, but she would 25 not. Not quietly at least. 66 1 MR. SHIKORA: Finally, the allegation 2 about illegally-purchased liquor, illegally 3 purchased for resale. What's the situation there? 4 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, it was my 5 understanding that I could buy -- because I buy 6 beer there at a liquor store. I talked to the 7 agent, she told me I could not. It was, it was 8 actually my fault that that happened. 9 Everything's cleared up, everything is done the 10 way it has to be done now, I mean. 11 MR. SHIKORA: Is there anything else you 12 would like to tell the committee about? 13 MR. ARTEAGA: No, we've pretty much gone 14 over everything. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there questions 16 committee members have? 17 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Correct me if I'm 20 wrong, but I understood you to say that on the 21 October 9th shooting, you do not recall whether or 22 not the shooter or the victims were in your bar? 23 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah. I do not know that 24 for a fact. 25 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Do you know why the 67 1 detective would have reported that during the 2 course of his interview with the victim as well as 3 the witness that it was stated that he observed 4 the suspect and the accomplice inside the Brew 5 House prior to the shooting? 6 MR. ARTEAGA: Who did he interview? 7 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: It says here, "The 8 detective interviewed the victim as well as a 9 witness who stated he observed the suspect and 10 accomplice inside the Brew House prior to the 11 shooting." 12 MR. ARTEAGA: A witness who stated that, 13 and I'm sure that was Steve who was up here 14 earlier, the victim, I mean. 15 MR. SHIKORA: That's the victim, not the 16 shooter. 17 MR. ARTEAGA: We're talking about the 18 5/9/2009, is that what you're talking about? 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Right. 20 MR. ARTEAGA: Okay. Where this 21 occurred, I was outside, and I did see somebody 22 across the street earlier, and they were just 23 standing over there. I didn't know what was going 24 on. There was a group of younger people that live 25 up the block. Where this happened, if Steve, the 68 1 guy who testified before, this happened in front 2 of his house. So he -- this didn't happen while 3 he was out there, from my understanding. So I 4 mean, he is saying they came out of there. There 5 has been multiple times that he has said, "Hey, 6 this happened, this happened." And you know, I 7 was like, "How do you know?" "They were black," 8 or that's what he's telling me. You know, I -- 9 the reason he's saying that is he didn't see it, I 10 didn't see it. So I don't -- you know, when I 11 talked -- I stayed three hours to talk to the 12 detective that night to say, "Hey, I seen a white 13 car out there." "Can you give me a description?" 14 I did all that stuff, so. 15 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 16 believe even though that they received a 17 suspension for the February 6th incident involving 18 the semiautomatic handgun, given the fact that 19 we're able to take into account the totality of 20 the circumstances, I believe I can ask him 21 questions related to that incident as well. Is 22 that correct? 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: It's up to the chair. 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, if I 25 could continue to make my argument before you rule 69 1 on this? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll allow you to, I'll 3 allow you to tread, but I'm going to ask you tread 4 lightly here, and -- 5 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I guess the reason 6 why I feel this is important is that there is a 7 pattern that's being established here. There was 8 an excuse last time he was here about the 9 semiautomatic handgun that was recovered in the 10 bar, and the individual was under 21 years of age, 11 was highly intoxicated, with a weapon, he was 12 arrested and charged with reckless use of a 13 weapon, etcetera. There's a continual pattern 14 here that is being demonstrated between that and 15 the assurances this committee received at the time 16 that they would take appropriate measures to 17 assure that this doesn't occur again. And as we 18 see from repeated incidents involving guns, it 19 hasn't been addressed. And that's why I think 20 that this is germane to our discussion here. 21 MR. SHIKORA: I will object to that line 22 of questioning. 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: It would be one 24 question. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to -- what 70 1 I'll do is, I will allow the line of questioning. 2 We'll see where it goes. 3 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Just one question. 4 So are you saying on the incident of February 6, 5 2009, that that individual, according to the 6 police report, since you're challenging everything 7 else practically in the police report, you're 8 saying that this individual did not have a gun 9 that wasn't recovered in your bar? 10 MR. ARTEAGA: There was a gun recovered 11 in there. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. That's 13 all I have. No more questions. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I have one 15 question. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. Mr. Arteaga, 18 is it? 19 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: I read your plan of 21 action to the police department. You covered two 22 of three items. One was the increased security, 23 the five officers Fridays and Saturdays. And one 24 was to get an ID reader. And apparently, those 25 two things have been done. 71 1 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: The third one was that 3 you were going to close approximately 35 minutes 4 early? 5 MR. ARTEAGA: Yes. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Have you done that as 7 well? 8 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah, I do that every 9 night. 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. That's all I have, 11 Mr. Chairman. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Mr Shikora? 13 MR. SHIKORA: No further questions of 14 this witness. 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 16 When you say "close," do you mean last 17 call or getting people out or. 18 MR. ARTEAGA: No, no. Actually, at the 19 -- well, depending on what night it is, five to 20 2:00 on Fridays and Saturdays. It's 35 minutes 21 before, all the lights are up and all the music is 22 turned off. So I don't push everybody out exactly 23 at the same time. Usually, how it's -- 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Lights are up, music is 25 turned off, people are -- then you start getting 72 1 people out? 2 MR. ARTEAGA: No, we turn them up at, 3 like I said, 35 minutes before, and the music is 4 turned off. 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I mean, that's standard 6 if you want people out before bar time. Everybody 7 does that. 8 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah, no, well, I mean, 9 I've known some places that do like quarter after 10 or twenty to, you know what I mean, it's an extra 11 15 minutes, and that really does help. 12 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You're not actually 13 closing early, you're just closing at a time to 14 reasonably comply with the law at night, beginning 15 to get people out. 16 MR. ARTEAGA: Well, yeah, I mean, it's 17 just like any other bar, you don't want to close 18 exactly ten minutes before and you're shoving 19 everybody out the door. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Next witness 21 here. 22 MR. SHIKORA: Call Mr. Coralic. State 23 your name. 24 MR. CORALIC: Stojan Coralic, 25 C-O-R-A-L-I-C S-T-O-J-A-N. 73 1 MR. SHIKORA: What's your address? 2 MR. CORALIC: 3101 West Cold Spring 3 Road, Greenfield, 53221, Wisconsin. 4 MR. SHIKORA: You are the owner of this 5 establishment? 6 MR. CORALIC: Yes, I am. 7 MR. SHIKORA: And what do you want to 8 tell the committee about these various charges? 9 MR. CORALIC: Well, I didn't know until 10 I received the letter from the captain, and we 11 went, me and my manager, went up there, and we 12 asked some questions. What we can do to maintain 13 the problem that we have. And he said you have to 14 propose a letter. That's what we did. Later on, 15 they accept that letter. They come, they check it 16 out. And after that, almost every, if not those 17 three nights, but two of those nights when we are 18 working every nighttime there on the street. Even 19 my customers, they don't know. Even my manager he 20 don't know. I try to get, to see what's going on 21 by myself without somebody telling me what's going 22 on since then. The officer he follows me, he 23 said, if you don't receive anything from us, we 24 don't have nothing against that. Since then, we 25 didn't receive any letter or any calls. 74 1 So I don't know if you have some 2 suggestion to give us we can maintain. And it's 3 not someone leaving. If Mr. Zielinski, if he 4 wanted me to be bankrupt on that building, you 5 know, that's his choice. You know, I can't afford 6 to keep that building. I vote to keep the 7 community good, and I did a lot on the building 8 with my -- I did a lot of improvements. You know, 9 they should, he should look at that building 10 before I bought it. How is the neighborhood, and 11 how many times I come out the back, you know, 12 clean the garbage. As the owner, I try to 13 maintain it, containers there, clean it up, or how 14 many times I come and sweep it up, street in the 15 front of the building. You know, if he wanted me 16 to get to bankrupt, you know, it's not in my 17 hands. If you guys want it to -- we can improve 18 the neighborhood, I should be around. If not, the 19 only thing is I have to file the bankruptcy on it. 20 MR. SHIKORA: You own the restaurant 21 next door also, right? 22 MR. CORALIC: Yeah, we own the 23 restaurant next door. Even Zielinski, he issued 24 us the liquor license for those people. We found 25 they don't have the lease with me. They don't 75 1 want to sign the previous lease, what was the 2 previous lease before I bought it, and still gets 3 out of lease. And it's some others, some liquor 4 license should be issued without lease. Why is 5 that? Why he so much against this license? It's 6 licensing same property, but I'm wondering why he 7 is so much against this to close this bar. That's 8 my living. That's my future, too, future for the 9 family, future for all of us. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Shikora, what I'm 11 going to do is ask you to ask Mr. Coralic to keep 12 your testimony to the items that are in the 13 complaint. I mean, there are a lot of 14 generalities, and I've given you a fair amount of 15 leeway here of -- what's in question here is not 16 next door, the other parcel of your property. 17 What's in question is your operation and whether 18 or not the items that are in the charges before 19 us, that were the grounds for this revocation 20 proceeding, are adequate and are verifiable, are 21 happening, or not. So I'm going to ask you to 22 relegate your questions to specific items here 23 that would rebut sworn charges and to leave your 24 response to that, or I'm going to cut you off and 25 stop you, okay? 76 1 MR. SHIKORA: Well, I don't think -- 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I just asked you, yes or 3 no. Yes or no? 4 MR. SHIKORA: Fine. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You sometimes ask 6 witnesses, yes or no. I'm going to ask you, yes 7 or no? 8 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, please proceed. 10 MR. SHIKORA: I don't believe that -- 11 you don't have any specific knowledge of any of 12 these incidences, do you? Personal knowledge, 13 only what you were told, right? 14 MR. CORALIC: I don't. 15 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. Then I have nothing 16 further. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Mr. Coralic, 18 are you there on a daily basis at your 19 establishment? 20 MR. CORALIC: At least eight hours a 21 week or more. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Eight hours a day? 23 MR. CORALIC: A week. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Eight hours a week? 25 MR. CORALIC: Yeah, at least. 77 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How many days in a 2 typical week are you there? 3 MR. CORALIC: Thursday, Friday and 4 Saturday, typically I try to be there. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Portions of Thursday, 6 Friday and Saturday? 7 MR. CORALIC: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How late do you 9 typically stay? 10 MR. CORALIC: A lot of times, I stay 11 until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. On incidents such 13 as the dates that were allegations where these 14 shootings took place, were you present those 15 evenings? 16 MR. CORALIC: No, I wasn't there. But 17 since then, I try to be, I try to be those three 18 nights there. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 20 Questions by committee? Alderman Zielinski, any 21 questions? No. Okay. Thank you. 22 Did you have another individual you 23 would like to call forward here? 24 MR. SHIKORA: I have -- I'll call 25 Vojislav Tubic, and I don't know if you will -- 78 1 I'll see if the line of questioning, if we can be 2 allowed to go into it or not. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. That's fine. 4 Were you sworn in Mr. Tubic? We'll swear you in. 5 MS. BLACK: Do you solemnly affirm under 6 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 7 Wisconsin that the testimony you are about to give 8 is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 9 truth? 10 MR. TUBIC: I do. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If you could take the 12 standing microphone, unless you physically can't 13 handle it then you may take a seat here. 14 MR. TUBIC: I can handle it. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll need to, again, 16 get your name and address for the record, and if 17 you could spell it, please? 18 MR. TUBIC: My name is Vojislav, 19 V-O-J-I-S-L-A-V, last name is Tubic, T-U-B-I-C, 20 3703 West Ruskin Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 21 53215. 22 MR. SHIKORA: Mr. Tubic -- 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm sorry, Mr. Shikora, 24 if you don't mind, if you could actually get 25 closer to the microphone? 79 1 MR. SHIKORA: Mr. Tubic, you are the 2 individual who sold the building, tavern building 3 to Mr. Coralic, right? 4 MR. TUBIC: That is correct, sir. 5 MR. SHIKORA: And prior to that, you had 6 other -- well, you owned the property, you ran the 7 tavern there for a substantial period of time, 8 right? 9 MR. TUBIC: Almost 20 years. 10 MR. SHIKORA: And then you rented the 11 tavern to a couple of other people before you sold 12 it, right? 13 MR. TUBIC: Yes, when I got a littler 14 older, and I couldn't handle it myself, I did try 15 to lease it out. 16 MR. SHIKORA: How many years did that go 17 on? 18 MR. TUBIC: It went on from '95 on up. 19 MR. SHIKORA: Until when? 20 MR. TUBIC: Until I sold the building, 21 which was in 2005. 22 MR. SHIKORA: 2005? 23 MR. TUBIC: Yes, sir. 24 MR. SHIKORA: So Mr. Coralic has been 25 the owner of the building then since 2005? 80 1 MR. TUBIC: That is correct, sir. 2 MR. SHIKORA: All right. Do you know 3 how long that particular premises has been a 4 tavern? 5 MR. TUBIC: Since 1926. That was the 6 first bar from my understanding. That was when 7 the building was built, and he was -- oh, I'm 8 sorry. 9 MR. SHIKORA: Do you -- 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, there was 11 prohibition in this country from 1919 until 1933, 12 so there were no taverns operating, at least 13 legally. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Even before it was 15 revealed here. 16 MR. TUBIC: I was told the building was 17 the first bar since the building was built. I'm 18 sorry. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Prior to the Volstead 20 Act here, this was probably a little speakeasy 21 here in the back. 22 MR. TUBIC: Okay. But that's been one 23 of the first bars on the street, my understanding. 24 And I purchased the building back in 1978, and I 25 remodeled it 1980, too, spent about $70,000 there. 81 1 And then we put a restaurant in there, and I used 2 to run weddings, and I had fish fries, and that 3 was one of the nicest bars on the south side. As 4 a matter of fact, it was just mentioned in the 5 Sentinel Journal, that was one of the cleanest 6 bars on the south side just about three weeks ago. 7 So it was run cleanly and properly. 8 MR. SHIKORA: And who made that 9 determination that you read in the paper? The 10 city? 11 MR. TUBIC: I guess, the City of 12 Milwaukee, yes, sir. 13 May I add something? 14 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. 15 MR. TUBIC: Ever since Mr. Zielinski 16 came as alderman, he was always giving us a hard 17 time about that bar. Every time I leased it out, 18 they have to come here and -- for no reason at 19 all. That's why I think this is the final 20 outcome -- 21 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Objection. 22 MR. TUBIC: -- that's came about. 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Objection. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I -- 25 MR. TUBIC: Well, that's the truth. 82 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to ask that 2 that be stricken. I don't know that there is any 3 factual basis to that. 4 MR. TUBIC: Yes, it is, sir. You can 5 check on the licenses. When I applied, people 6 applied, I always have to come. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That is -- you know 8 what, that has no bearing. I have been through 9 all those hearings. That has no bearing 10 whatsoever. So apparently somebody got a license 11 at your place when you sold it, right? 12 MR. TUBIC: Yes, they did, but -- 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. That's it. 14 That's it. Okay. Any other questions? 15 MR. SHIKORA: As far as any of the 16 allegations in the complaint, you're not familiar 17 with any of that, are you? 18 MR. TUBIC: No, I'm not. 19 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. Nothing further. 20 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's first -- Alderman 22 Zielinski, let's see if there are any questions by 23 committee? Alderman Zielinski. 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you. Okay. 25 Sir, you mentioned that you operated that tavern 83 1 for 20 years, is that correct? 2 MR. TUBIC: About 20 years. 3 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Did you ever have 4 anything on your police report involving 5 shootings? 6 MR. TUBIC: No, I never did. 7 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: You never did, 8 okay. And did you ever have anything in your 9 police report about fights? 10 MR. TUBIC: I never. 11 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Did you have 12 anything on your police report about drug dealing? 13 MR. TUBIC: No, sir. 14 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Did you ever have 15 the captain of a police district come down and 16 testify saying that that's the most problematic 17 bar in his district when you operated it? 18 MR. TUBIC: They did come if there is a 19 problem, not to that extent. 20 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you very much 21 for answering my questions. I appreciate the fact 22 that you ran a good bar. The record shows that 23 you ran a good bar, there is nothing on your 24 police report. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 84 1 MR. TUBIC: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you have your last 3 witness present here now? 4 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And Mr. Shikora, I'll 6 ask you, do you have any others besides this? 7 MR. SHIKORA: No. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. You were not in 9 the room, and you weren't sworn in. 10 MS. LEGIEWKA: Yes, I was sitting the 11 whole time in the back. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You were. 13 MS. LEGIEWKA: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And we'll need your name 15 and your address? 16 MS. LEGIEWKA: Sure, my name is Sylvia 17 Legiewka, S-Y-L-V-I-A L-E-G-I-E-W-K-A, my address 18 is 10431 South St. Francis. 19 And I've been helping Rick, this is my 20 fiance. We did this together to raise our 21 children, and to have money for it. And I have 22 been there every single Thursday, Friday, 23 Saturday. 24 And I have a couple things I would like 25 to say if it's okay with the board. First of all, 85 1 Liquor Suites is still open. It's a Mexican 2 establishment right now. 3 Um, Steve was telling that it's such an 4 unsafe place. During the summertime, he had his 5 2-year-old, either it was his daughter or 6 granddaughter -- 7 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Hearsay. 8 MS. LEGIEWKA: No, it wasn't hearsay 9 because I was out there, and I saw it, riding a 10 bike in a diaper at closing time, okay. 11 Plenty of times, my fiance has been 12 outside talking to Steve, which is right next to 13 the porn store, about everything, him making 14 comments. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Here is what I'm going 16 to do. This is where I'm going to stop you -- 17 MS. LEGIEWKA: Okay. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- because the other 19 gentlemen are not on indictment here. They are 20 not before -- what this proceeding is is not for 21 us to turn around and say, to raise question with 22 A and B and C and everyone else, this is your 23 ability to respond to personal knowledge of items 24 as to how this establishment is run. 25 MS. LEGIEWKA: Okay. 86 1 MR. SHIKORA: May I say something? 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 3 MR. SHIKORA: I believe it does have 4 evidentiary value because of what the witnesses 5 just testified to affects the credibility of the 6 prior witness. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to -- I'll 8 give you a little bit of latitude in that regard, 9 but this is -- to what extent, I'm going to ask 10 you to hone it in, bring it home, and then tell us 11 about -- I don't want a litany list of, that first 12 guy doesn't live far, and her opinion of 13 everything else. 14 MS. LEGIEWKA: Okay, I understand. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So what I'm going to ask 16 you to do -- Alderman is there something else? 17 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I just want to 18 comment on the ruling, Mr. Chairman. If she's 19 going to attempt to call into question the 20 credibility of certain witnesses, then I would 21 request before she gives us that information that 22 she has information to call into credibility all 23 of the witnesses as well as the police captain and 24 find out their motivation why they would say this 25 is the most problematic bar in the district. 87 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm going to strike that 2 as well, too, here, and ask you to rein this in. 3 MS. LEGIEWKA: Okay. About the 4 incidents. I was the one who pulled out all the 5 police reports and all the CAD reports. I did 6 read them all. I understand there are a couple 7 incidents that happened outside the bar. We are 8 doing the best we can, okay. I mean, to make it 9 safer. There is other bars down the block. This 10 is not just the only place that has any incidents. 11 There is fights down the street, too. I mean, I'm 12 not talking about them, and I won't bring it up. 13 I'm just going to talk about the Brew House. I 14 have not had any problems inside. I would have 15 witnesses here, but I did not have enough time to 16 even bring them in here. And, you know, I wish I 17 could have done that, and I apologize about that. 18 But I try my best to keep the bar clean, I'm 19 there, I see a lot of people. I talk to a lot of 20 people. I talk to the owner of the restaurant, 21 which is next door. I talk to Bob who owns the 22 bowling alley next to us. Um, his people never 23 complain. Um, I just talked to him recently with 24 Rick about people leaving or something, did they 25 ever have any problems, he stated not. 88 1 So I mean, this is my living and his 2 living. We have four children. If it was so 3 unsafe, I would not be there. That's -- 4 MR. SHIKORA: All right. Now, let me 5 ask you, with respect to the May 9th shots fired, 6 do you have any personal knowledge about that? 7 MS. LEGIEWKA: Let me read it. No, um, 8 I do not know who it was. 9 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. I mean, were you 10 present? 11 MS. LEGIEWKA: I was inside of the 12 building. I think I was in the hallway because I 13 was making sure that, you know, after the -- Rick 14 came and told me. 15 MR. SHIKORA: On the September 27, '09, 16 argument between two females, do you know anything 17 about that situation? 18 MS. LEGIEWKA: I was inside the bar 19 making sure everything was okay, inside behind the 20 bar, so he was the one taking care of the issue. 21 MR. SHIKORA: The October 3, '09, with a 22 shooting and then the fleeing and the car 23 accident, do you know anything about that, a 24 personal knowledge about that? 25 MS. LEGIEWKA: No, I did not. The only 89 1 thing, the only thing I know is that the next day 2 I got a phone call that we were on TV, and that's 3 about all about that. I was inside. 4 MR. SHIKORA: What about October 11, 5 '09, when the police conducted a tavern check -- 6 MS. LEGIEWKA: Yes. 7 MR. SHIKORA: -- and there was a minor, 8 were you present? 9 MS. LEGIEWKA: Yes, I'm always inside, 10 so yes. 11 MR. SHIKORA: Did you know anything 12 about it? 13 MS. LEGIEWKA: I knew about it 14 afterwards, and there was a ticket that we got for 15 $367, and we took care of it right away. I do 16 know about that. And that security is no longer 17 with us. 18 MR. SHIKORA: And the November 8, '09, 19 police officers issued a citation for disorderly 20 conduct to a patron of the Brew House. Do you 21 have any personal knowledge of that? 22 MS. LEGIEWKA: I know about it. I 23 always knew about everything. I just was not 24 present because I was inside making sure that, you 25 know, the people inside are okay, you know, having 90 1 a good time and stuff like that. That's all. 2 MR. SHIKORA: All right. I have nothing 3 further. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: No questions. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 6 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 8 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Who is the actual 9 licensee? 10 MR. CORALIC: Stojan Coralic. 11 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: And who is the 12 manager? 13 MR. ARTEAGA: Rick. 14 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: You're the manager, 15 and your role is? 16 MS. LEGIEWKA: I help him out. I'm 17 there all of time, you know. 18 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: And how long have 19 you been the licensee? 20 MR. CORALIC: For the last two years. 21 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: For the last two 22 years? 23 MR. CORALIC: Yeah, two years. 24 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: And he has been your 25 manager ever since you have been the licensee, or 91 1 when did he become the manager? 2 MR. CORALIC: He comes about September. 3 MR. ARTEAGA: Yeah, right around 4 September. 5 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Of '09? 6 MR. ARTEAGA: 2008. 7 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: How long has the bar 8 been a problem, Alderman? 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: From the very 10 beginning. 11 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: From the very 12 beginning, from '07? 13 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: When did you get 14 the license? 15 MS. LEGIEWKA: We didn't even get them. 16 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: When were you 17 hired? 18 MR. ARTEAGA: It was right around 19 September '08. 20 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: All I remember is 21 around '08 when they started opening, that's when 22 I started getting phone calls and complaints. 23 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: And then for Ms. 24 Grill, they originally got a license in '07, and 25 did they receive any discipline in '08 after a 92 1 year of operation? Because we don't have the 2 history in this one. 3 MS. GRILL: No, there was no discipline 4 in '08. 5 MR. CORALIC: Shouldn't be any 6 complaints, except lately. 7 MS. GRILL: The manager license was 8 actually issued on December 15, 2008, and there 9 was a renewal or new application for the manager 10 that was denied by the council in February of '09. 11 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: In February of '09. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: So if I understand 13 correctly, this present licensee, this present 14 licensee was licensed in December of 2008? 15 MS. GRILL: Correct, since the current, 16 are you talking about the manager or -- 17 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: The manager. 18 MS. GRILL: Yes, since '08. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: So the manager was 20 hired in December of '08. The first incident with 21 guns was in February of 2009, within two months we 22 have incidents in the record here and they got a 23 suspension in 2009 because of the, you know, 24 semiautomatic gun in the bar. So within two 25 months we started having problems, and that's when 93 1 I was getting phone calls, and ever since then, 2 it's been nothing but problems. 3 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: So there has been 4 one suspension? 5 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: One suspension. 6 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: For ten days? 7 MS. GRILL: That is correct. 8 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Okay. Thank you, 9 Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any other questions? 11 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: If I may add a 12 follow-up to that, Alderman Hamilton. At that 13 time, when they came before the committee, they 14 said they were going to take appropriate measures 15 so that there would be no more, you know, gun 16 activity. And we've seen how much gun activity 17 has taken place since that time. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Additional questions by 19 committee? Okay. I'm going to allow closings to 20 be provided here by Alderman Zielinski and Mr. 21 Shikora. 22 MR. SHIKORA: Who is going first? 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Well, I'll -- you know 24 what, you're making the case here, so I'll allow 25 you. 94 1 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you, Mr. 2 Chairman. 3 First off, I want to say that this 4 gentleman who operated it for 20 years, I asked 5 him to testify. How many complaints, how many 6 incidents on a police report does he have 7 involving guns? None. How many does he have 8 involving drugs? How many does he have with 9 loitering? Or any of the other problems that have 10 been testified to or are in this police report? 11 Now, if I had a licensee like this 12 gentleman, we wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be 13 wasting my time if I didn't have all these issues, 14 if I wasn't getting constantly bombarded from 15 constituents in the area about repeated problems 16 at this location. 17 I've had numerous meetings and 18 discussions with the police captain about this 19 location, with residents in the area, and it's all 20 here on the police report. And when you ask, "Oh, 21 I don't know," you know, "anything about 22 shootings," or this, that or the other thing. The 23 only thing I can tell you is that the previous 24 licensee did not have any of these incidents 25 whatsoever. 95 1 You know, above and beyond the police 2 report involving these gun incidents, we have a 3 number of people that testified firsthand that the 4 number of incidents of all the guns is a lot more 5 than what's on this police report here. We even 6 had people come in, when I sent out notice to the 7 area, that I was surprised, Ms. Zarate, who works 8 for Alderman Murphy, I didn't even know she was 9 going to be here. She lives in the area. She's, 10 you know, she's lived here for 15 years. She's 11 got no motivation whatsoever other than to come 12 down here and protect her neighborhood and do what 13 she thinks is, does what she thinks is right for 14 her particular neighbors. 15 The captain, how many of you -- I mean, 16 we all have -- we know how big these police 17 districts are. How many times have you heard a 18 captain come in and say, "This bar," point blank, 19 "is the most problematic bar in my district"? 20 That is what the captain of the 6th District came 21 in, he said, "This is the most problematic bar in 22 my district." He said he has to use inordinate 23 amount of police resources at this one location, 24 and we know how much police resources these 25 problematic bars take up. And that takes away 96 1 from the protection and security and safety of our 2 constituents in other parts of the city by these 3 bars that have these repeated problems and they 4 don't get over it. 5 Now, within two months of the bar 6 manager being hired, we have the incidents with 7 guns. They came in, had a great plan: No more 8 incidents with guns, and its escalated to gunfire. 9 Okay, we've had repeated incidents involving guns. 10 We've had gunfire. Now, if we allow them to go 11 unchecked and there is an actual -- in fact, there 12 is a victim, okay. Let's say the next victim gets 13 killed, okay. We've got no one to blame but 14 ourselves because we see the trends over here: 15 First, the gun in there; shootings; victims; 16 high-speed chases, the captain testified to the 17 high-speed chases in the police report here; we've 18 got drugs, we had people testify to drugs taking 19 place at this location; loitering taking place. 20 This is just a major, major problem. I 21 don't have any other problems with any other bars 22 on 13th Street like I have with this one. They 23 talked about Liquor Suites, I haven't gotten one 24 phone call about any problems with, you know, 25 Liquor Suites, or anything like that. I would not 97 1 be wasting my time or the committee's time coming 2 down here, and I don't think the captain would be 3 coming down here, unless this was a serious 4 problem, okay. You know, a lot times we look at, 5 you know, repeated fights, drug dealing and 6 gunfire, this has got all of the above including 7 high-speed chases, okay. 8 And so, that's why I'm here, and I would 9 hope the committee would support -- the last point 10 I want to make is, you notice that the people that 11 are here to testify is the attorney, which he's 12 obviously going to be here, the person who is the 13 licensee, the bar manager and the bar manager's 14 fiancee. No one else from the neighborhood -- 15 MS. LEGIEWKA: Because -- I'm sorry. 16 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Listen, Mr. 17 Chairman, members of the committee, the notices 18 went out last week. How long does it take to pick 19 up a phone and say, "Hey," you know, "do you think 20 we are running a good business? Come down here 21 and testify." Not one person from the 22 neighborhood has come down here to testify on 23 behalf of these people saying that they run a good 24 business. I've got a plethora of people that have 25 had their businesses negatively impacted, 98 1 residents that live across the street that have 2 testified about repeated and ongoing problems. We 3 gave them a chance last time. I said, fine, 4 ten-day suspension only, you know, for the gun 5 activity. They promised they were going to 6 straighten out. Instead of straightening out, 7 it's gone in the opposition direction. If we let 8 them go and something happens here, we got no one 9 else to blame but ourselves. 10 I hope that the committee supports 11 revocation of this premises. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Mr. Shikora, 13 this is your opportunity to provide a closing 14 here. 15 MR. SHIKORA: Okay. We have these 16 allegations of all these shootings. I only see 17 two listed in the affidavit. And the only 18 evidence that we have that anyone involved in 19 either of those shootings was ever involved with 20 the Brew House tavern was that one was a victim. 21 We don't have any evidence that anyone that was in 22 the Brew House was a shooter. 23 We have complaints of some arguments 24 outside the tavern. The question is, some of 25 them, were they outside the tavern? Were they a 99 1 block away? Were the people actually in the Brew 2 House? 3 We have big wide broad spectrum of 4 allegations of drug dealing. What proof is there? 5 That somebody thinks that somebody was dealing 6 drugs, is there any proof of it? Absolutely not. 7 What we have here is a few picky things 8 that everything that happens in that neighborhood 9 apparently is being blamed on the Brew House 10 tavern. There's plenty of other taverns in that 11 neighborhood. I'm sure that every one of their 12 customers isn't an A-1 model citizen, absolutely 13 perfectly behaved all the time and never causes a 14 disturbance. That's not the way of life; that's 15 not reality. And people that imbibe in drinking 16 and alcohol, you're going to have some people that 17 are going to get intoxicated and get unruly, so. 18 And as far as the alderman's argument 19 that we didn't have any customers down here, well, 20 I'm sorry, but it's really short notice to prepare 21 for a hearing when you've got like three days to 22 get ready. And I believe that that is not what 23 should be demanded here to have equal protection 24 under the law and have a fair hearing. 25 So in closing, I'm asking this committee 100 1 to deny the request for revocation, and at the 2 very, very most, if the committee feels like this 3 tavern has to do more than they've done, I think 4 they've improved things, I think even the captain 5 testified that things have gotten a lot better. 6 He's not sure whether it's because of the 7 implementation of a new plan by the Brew House 8 tavern or the weather or a greater presence of the 9 police department. Well, if he is not sure then 10 neither can you be sure. The answer is that. And 11 the idea of the weather, we had a pretty mild 12 winter so far. And you have allegations of things 13 going on in cold-weather months as well as 14 warm-weather months. You've got allegations in 15 October, November, so. And I don't see any 16 allegations about anything in June or July or 17 August, and that's when we have warm weather in 18 Milwaukee. 19 So I'm asking that the request for 20 revocation of the liquor license be denied. At 21 the very most, if you think that they need a 22 little bit more prodding to make their act even 23 better, then I would suggest a short suspension. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. As a matter 25 of housekeeping, I will have Alderman Hamilton 101 1 move to make the sworn complaint, the notice to 2 the licensee, Stojan Coralic, copy of the summons, 3 the license application, the police report and 4 notice to neighbors part of our official record in 5 this proceeding. Are there any objections to 6 that? Hearing none, so ordered. With that, we 7 are in committee. 8 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 10 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You know, there has 11 been some talk about this action plan and things 12 are changing, but we are looking at only a couple 13 months and the coldest two months we've had for 14 that change. I mean, to me, that action plan is 15 certainly too late and really too little. I mean, 16 you're making a big deal out of closing 35 minutes 17 early when that's what any bar that plays music 18 should've been doing in the first place. You 19 know, if you turn the lights on and they get out 20 20 minutes before bar time, that's when you have 21 the kind of chaos you had. And it's not really 22 closing early, it's just good practice. I mean, 23 closing early would be begin doing that an hour 24 earlier and actual close a half-hour early maybe 25 so that your crowd doesn't mix as much with the 102 1 crowds from other bars. Which is what a lot of 2 bars, frankly, do that have large crowds and music 3 venues. That that wasn't even on the table tells 4 me that it's not just too late but it's too 5 little, this action plan. 6 There has been several shootings and -- 7 that are recorded in the police report, recorded 8 on videotape, recorded in neighborhood testimony. 9 This is testimony not just of residents but of 10 businesses, of the alderman, of the police 11 captain. It was pretty clear, I mean, just 12 because you have an action plan doesn't mean, 13 doesn't give you carte blanche to stay open. An 14 action plan is something that you need to work on 15 with the police department. And clearly, the 16 judgment of the police department is they don't 17 expect this action plan to work when it gets warm. 18 I think, for whatever reason, you've had 19 well over a year to prove yourself, and you just 20 don't have the wherewithal to run that kind of 21 business. Your plan on running it has had a 22 negative consequence on every other business on 23 that block. 24 So based on the police report, based on 25 the testimony of neighbors, businesses, the 103 1 alderman, and the testimony of the police 2 department, I'll move for revocation. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Alderman 4 Kovac moves for revocation based upon the police 5 report, based upon neighborhood testimony, 6 testimony provided by the captain of the local 7 police district. Is there any additional 8 discussion on the motion? Are there any 9 objections to the motion? 10 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Objection. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hearing one objection, 12 the motion will carry on a 3 to 1 vote. 13 Mr. Schrimpf. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Shikora, the 15 committee is going to be doing finding of fact and 16 conclusion of law recommending revocation of the 17 license. You will receive copy of that. You will 18 have an opportunity to submit written objections 19 to that recommendation. If so, they must be 20 received by 4:45 p.m., February 4, 2010, in room 21 205 of this building. If you submit written 22 objections, then you will also have the ability to 23 appear before the Milwaukee Common Council at 24 approximately 9:00 a.m. in the council chambers of 25 this building on February 9, 2010. The council 104 1 chambers are located on this floor but the other 2 end of the building. Do you understand all that? 3 MR. SHIKORA: Yes. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 105 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF MILWAUKEE ) 3 4 5 I, KAREN RENEE, Court Reporter and 6 Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, do 7 hereby certify that the above proceedings of the City 8 of Milwaukee Licenses Committee was recorded by me on 9 January 19, 2010, and reduced to writing under my 10 personal direction. 11 I further certify that I am not a 12 relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of 13 the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney 14 or counsel, or financially interested directly or 15 indirectly in this action. 16 In witness whereof I have hereunder set 17 my hand and affixed my seal of office at Milwaukee, 18 Wisconsin, this 27th day of January, 2010. 19 20 21 _________________________________ Notary Public 22 In and for the State of Wisconsin 23 24 My Commission Expires: March 11, 2012. 25