00001
 1    
     
 2                      CITY OF MILWAUKEE
     
 3                      LICENSES COMMITTEE
     
 4   
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 5   
     In the Matter of the Class "B" Tavern and Record Spin
 6                    renewal applications for:  
     
 7   OLIVA A. ARIAS
     PABLO De La CRUZ
 8   "La ESPANOLA"
     2237 W. Forest Home Avenue  
 9   
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
10   
                       COMMITTEE MEMBERS
11    
                    ALD. JAMES BOHL - Chair
12               ALD. MILELE COGGS, - Vice-Chairman
                       ALD.  ASHANTI HAMILTON 
13                   ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI
                         ALD. NIK KOVAC
14    
                LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA GRILL 
15         POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY  
     OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF
16                                  ATTIRNEY THOMAS MILLER
17    
18                  Proceedings had and testimony given in
19        the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES
20        COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on
21        the 18th day of February, 2009.
22     

00002
 1                    P R O C E E D I N G S
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  On our - - On the other
 3        item on our 9:30 a.m. agenda is Pablo De La Cruz
 4        and Oliva Arias, Class "B" Tavern and Record Spin
 5        partnership renewal application for "La Espanola"
 6        at 2237 West Forest Home Avenue.  
 7                  Good morning, Mr. Arena.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  Good morning.  
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Schrimpf, before we
10        even swear this one - - swear our - - our
11        applicants in.  This one has been remanded from 
12        - - from court.
13                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  That is correct.
14                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Is there anything that,
15        you know, you briefly would like to at least
16        provide in summary to the committee regarding
17        that - - that decision by the - - by the bench?
18                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  Sure.  Just by way of
19        explanation, Mr. Chairman, the committee
20        considered this license at the last cycle,
21        recommended non-renewal of the license.  A
22        portion of the reason for the - - that
23        recommendation was information contained in the
24        police report to the effect that the security
25        guard at the bar was involved in a shooting of an

00003
 1        individual, and the police report reflected that
 2        nothing ever happened as a result of that.
 3                  That recommendation was approved by the
 4        Common Council, and then there was an effort on
 5        the part of the licensee to get review of that in
 6        the Circuit Court of Milwaukee County and, also,
 7        to move for an injunction preventing the City
 8        from closing it down during the pendency of what
 9        was happening.
10                  TRANSLATOR:  I have to translate what
11        they're saying.  They hired me for this, so if
12        you can just, please, slow down, that would be
13        very helpful.
14                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  Oh, all right.  Sure.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  He's providing a
16        summary, but that's - - to the committee, but
17        that's fine.  Please proceed.
18                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  Well, but under the open
19        meetings law you have a right to know what's
20        going on.
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sure.
22                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  So, go ahead.  Oh, your
23        - - Can I go.
24                  TRANSLATOR:  Yeah, if you could just
25        slow down a little bit, okay.

00004
 1                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  Okay.
 2                  TRANSLATOR:  All right.  Thank you.
 3                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  A hearing was held on
 4        that particular motion.  Originally it was
 5        granted on a ex-party basis by Judge Cooper. 
 6        Judge Cooper scheduled it for a hearing before
 7        Judge Kahn a few days later.  When that hearing
 8        was held, and I forget the exact date of the
 9        hearing, but it was within three or four, maybe
10        five days of the filing of the matter, Judge Kahn
11        did a little investigative work actually during
12        the course of the hearing and discovered that
13        there was, in fact, charges that resulted from
14        the incident in which the security guard
15        allegedly was involved in the shooting.  And it
16        turned out that charges were not issued to the
17        security guard, but, in fact, it was somebody
18        else.  There was conflicting information
19        contained within - - Judge Kahn also got a hold
20        of the information, and that's a formal pleading,
21        the complaint from the District Attorney's
22        office, and there was some conflicting
23        information in there as to what happened.  
24                  That then caused Judge Kahn to do the
25        following.  He was satisfied that there was some

00005
 1        erroneous information that the committee may have
 2        received that it acted on.  The Judge was not
 3        about to make a finding that it was erroneous,
 4        only that it might be erroneous.  He remanded it. 
 5        He was also - - There were also some suggestions
 6        in the pleadings - - 
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Schrimpf, I think
 8        that - - Why don't you slow down just a little
 9        bit here?
10                  MR. ARENA:  Just stop once in a while,
11        so he can catch up.  I know it's - - 
12                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  Give me the high sign
13        when you're ready to go.
14                  TRANSLATOR:  I will raise my hand,
15        okay, go ahead.  That will be a sign.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are you okay at this
17        point here now or?
18                  TRANSLATOR:  Yes, thank you.
19                  MR. SCHRIMPF:  There was also a concern
20        in the pleadings, and Judge Kahn didn't exactly
21        rule on this, but there was some testimony about
22        it at the hearing to the effect, and it was - -
23        it was something, in fact, that was raised by
24        Alderwoman Coggs during the course of the first
25        hearing, as to whether or not the translation

00006
 1        that was being given the licensee was
 2        sufficiently accurate.  
 3                  Judge Kahn, in light of all of the
 4        circumstances, did the following.  He remanded
 5        the matter to the committee for further
 6        consideration and really a new hearing, more or
 7        less forgetting the first hearing that was held,
 8        to start over from new.  He lifted the
 9        injunction, and closed the place down effective
10        the date of the hearing, because their license
11        had already expired.  And the Judge retained
12        jurisdiction of the case.  The Judge wants the
13        committee and the Council to reconsider it, come
14        to any consideration you want.  The Judge has not
15        placed any limits on testimony or issues that may
16        be received by the committee.  Wants the
17        committee to make a totally new recommendation
18        based on further information.  
19                  Based on all of that, I was in touch
20        with the Milwaukee Police Department, and the
21        Milwaukee Police Department got a hold of the
22        information and has amended the original police
23        report which is before you, and I guess that's
24        all I have to say.
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Mr.

00007
 1        Schrimpf.  And not only do we have an amended
 2        police report that is the police summary, but we
 3        also have the extensive full-fledged
 4        investigation report summary, as well, too, for 
 5        - - from the shooting, so.  With that, we'll - -
 6        we will call the applicants, again.  Pablo De La
 7        Cruz and Oliva Arias, Class "B" Tavern and Record
 8        Spin partnership renewal applications for "La
 9        Espanola" at 2237 West Forest Home Avenue.  We
10        will now swear you in, including your translator,
11        if we could do that.
12                  (Whereupon the applicants and the
13        interpreter were sworn.)
14                  MR. LOPEZ:  I do.  Daniel Lopez,
15        Certified Interpreter in the State of Wisconsin.
16                  (Responses for the applicants are
17        translated through the interpreter.)
18                  THE APPLICANTS:  Yes, I swear.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And, Mr. Arena, I'll
20        perhaps ask you, unless they choose to respond,
21        do you acknowledge receiving notice of today's
22        meeting with the possibility that the application
23        could be denied.  That there - - there was an
24        attached police report which was updated,
25        enclosed information regarding the cases 09-CV-

00008
 1        000556, and 08-CF-3663.  Additional addendum
 2        information, part of those cases, I believe that
 3        you filed, including the no contact order.
 4                  TRANSLATOR:  Please slow down.  It's -
 5        - It's not that hard.  Just slow down.  Just do
 6        not go too fast.
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Here's how I'll - - Let
 8        me - - Let me just do this.  Do you want to - -
 9        I'm actually talking to the attorney, but do you
10        want to show the clients that letter, the cover
11        sheet of the letter you have in your hand, Mister
12        - - Mr. Arena?  I'm going to expedite this.  Do
13        they acknowledge they received it?
14                  MR. ARENA:  Yes. 
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
16                  MR. ARENA:  I a - - accepted service of
17        it.  We acknowledge that we received service of
18        it.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  I'm - - I'm
20        just - - For my - - For my purposes for them, I'm
21        trying to expedite a notice, just to say, did you
22        receive that notice, and does it have all those
23        words there that they possibly had translated. 
24        Simple as that.
25                  MR. ARENA:  I, as a way of keeping

00009
 1        track of what's going on here, I had agreed to
 2        accept service of the notice.  I had accepted
 3        service of the notice.  It was sent to me by the
 4        City Attorney, and by the - - the license office. 
 5        I received this packet.  However, in this packet
 6        I did not receive, or I have not seen it in the
 7        packet, the amended police report.  So I want to
 8        make sure that, is this what we're relying on
 9        now, is this supplemental police report?  My
10        client did receive this and provided it to me
11        yesterday.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Fine.
13                  MR. ARENA:  But I'm aware of the
14        incident and we're prepared to proceed.  
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  So - - 
16                  MR. ARENA:  I just want to make sure
17        that what is in this packet is supposed to be in
18        this packet.  What I have is the original police
19        report that was considered at the original
20        hearing, which is just the one paragraph.
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The - - If I'm not
22        incorrect, did it - - There was an initial police
23        report.  It went through the service, and
24        ultimately, Mr. Arena, if I'm not incorrect, it
25        was a number of pages well into, I believe it was

00010
 1        after the transcript, in which we saw the - - 
 2                  MR. ARENA:  I just want to know if
 3        there's something that you've received in your
 4        file that I do not have in way of a police
 5        report.  
 6                  MS. GRILL:  Mr. Chair.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  I acknowledge receipt of
 8        this, now two page, what they're calling an
 9        amended or a supplemental report to the original
10        report.  I'm just wondering if there is - - 
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And - - And I - - I can
12        only tell you what I have before us, and that's
13        why I'll call Ms. Grill here at this time.
14                  MS. GRILL:  Mr. Chair, there was an
15        updated police report that we received on
16        February 12th, which was served on the
17        applicants, I believe, by the Milwaukee Police
18        Department, and then, the last sentence or the
19        last words in that police report says, "When the
20        State witness failed to appear."
21                  MR. ARENA:  Yeah, that's the one that I
22        have.
23                  MS. GRILL:  There was an updated one
24        that was served upon them, but it was not in the
25        original packet that you have received.

00011
 1                  MR. ARENA:  Yeah.  So that - - They
 2        have this packet, and this is the only thing that
 3        was additional, is this one.
 4                  MS. GRILL:  That's correct.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  And, Mr. Arena,
 7        do you just want to acknowledge yourself here for
 8        - - for the record here.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr.
10        Chairman.  The applicants, Oliva Arias and Pablo
11        De La Cruz, appear in person and with counsel,
12        Attorney Andrew Arena.  And we do acknowledge
13        receipt of the notice of today's hearing, and we
14        are prepared to proceed, and as is known, we do
15        have a Certified translator here this time, and
16        hopefully, everything will work out much better.
17                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you. 
18        We'll - - We'll move forward here with the police
19        report here then, Sergeant, please.  And,
20        Sergeant, if you could, because I know there is a
21        fair amount of material, also, and I - - I'm
22        going to guess that - - that Mr. De La Cruz and
23        Ms. Arias have probably had sufficient time to
24        have it translated, but because you're just
25        reading it in, if you could, as much as possible,

00012
 1        try to - - try to be considerate of their - -
 2        their translator here, as well, too.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  Just one issue on the
 4        police report before we take it.  I would like to
 5        enter a standing objection to the police report
 6        coming in in this matter under the rules of
 7        hearsay.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  And that would
 9        be duly noted.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Thank you.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Okay,
12        Sergeant, police report, please.
13                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  On 2/12 of '09,
14        below is the amended summary of the shooting
15        incident that occurred on 6/1 of '08.  On 6/1 of
16        '08 at approximately 1:13 a.m. Milwaukee police
17        were dispatched to 23rd and Forest Home for a
18        shooting complaint.  On arrival - - 
19                  TRANSLATOR:  Excuse me. 
20                  MR. ARENA:  Do you want to just read it
21        along with him?  He's trying to read it word for
22        word.
23                  TRANSLATOR:  Right.  I believe I
24        mentioned to Ms. Tobie Black that we - - we will
25        proceed on the consecutive mode, which is a

00013
 1        phrase, you will stop and the interpreter will
 2        translate it, that phrase.  I don't know if
 3        that's the way we're going to continue, we're
 4        going to do the same things all the way.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The - - Here's - - I
 6        want to be fair to your clients now.  But you - -
 7        I want you to - - You can ask them how they want
 8        to proceed, or, Mr. Arena, I'll ask you.  There
 9        are some pieces of information that they would
10        have been provided in considerate time.  If we
11        gave you like a test, and I said these are the
12        study words three weeks ago for the test, and
13        there's ten words on it, and then when we're
14        reading the words, you kind of look at it and
15        say, I've never seen this before in my life when
16        you've had an opportunity to have it translated
17        for three weeks, we're - - we're reading
18        materials that were provided to you in advance. 
19        If it's something that's new or somebody's
20        providing testimony or questions are being
21        raised, I understand that.  I'm trying to balance
22        that - - Let - - Why don't we start - - Can you
23        ask your clients here if they have had this
24        police report translated to them?
25                  THE APPLICANTS:  No, they - - they have

00014
 1        been never translated.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  All right. 
 3        Well, then, if you could at least - - 
 4                  MR. ARENA:  Well, as for this, I think
 5        that we could do it as a simultaneous
 6        translation, if possible, Daniel, and then
 7        consecutive for the - - when people are
 8        testifying and speaking, then we can do that.
 9                  TRANSLATOR:  That is possible.  I just
10        want to make sure - - 
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sure.  He - - He will
12        be - - Yeah, he will be - - Yeah, he will be
13        reading off of that.  No, I - - I totally
14        understand when we have testimony, that you're
15        going to want to have that testimony relayed. 
16        And as I said, my - - my one concern is that
17        documents that were provided well in advance that
18        were - - that were duly noticed, I mean, we send
19        it to you so that you can look at it in advance
20        and say, oh, these are the things that are going
21        to be brought forward to me.  I don't like to
22        literally say, if I'm a teacher before the test,
23        oh, you were provided all these words a week ago
24        for the test, now that we're at the test I'm
25        going to give you additional time to read all the

00015
 1        words that I'm going to test you on because you
 2        didn't study for your test beforehand.  And - -
 3                  MR. ARENA:  Well, with all due respect,
 4        Mr. Chair, it was testified to or stated by Ms.
 5        Grill that these items were issues that were
 6        received on February 12th.  That was just
 7        Saturday.  We haven't had several weeks - - 
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I - - I do understand
 9        that.  But I also understand, Mr. Arena, and I
10        respect that, but it is their livelihood.  I'm
11        certain - - I will be certain to tell you that I
12        believe that Mr. Arias - - or Ms. Arias and Mr.
13        De La Cruz probably know somebody that
14        translates, that they have you, as an attorney. 
15        They could have talked with you on Monday, on
16        Tuesday.  That they got it on Saturday, they had
17        Sunday, even if somebody else wasn't available. 
18        And this isn't - - wasn't dropped in their lap
19        like last night.  If it's my livelihood, my
20        living, somebody said to me, my job is incumbent
21        upon this, and I'm given four days in advance,
22        I'm sorry, if Judge Kahn thinks otherwise, then
23        he's legislating from the bench, and - - and
24        frankly, my - - my two cents would be - - 
25                  MR. ARENA:  Well, I - - I'll tell you,

00016
 1        Mr. Chairman, that they're taking this very
 2        seriously.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay, but - - 
 4                  MR. ARENA:  They've put a lot of effort
 5        out, and there have been  - -
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  My - - My point still
 7        stands.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  He'll simultaneously
 9        translate this, and there's no reason for us to
10        machinate and waste time over what's going on
11        right now.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  But you see my point,
13        as well, too, is, is I'm - - I'm here to do
14        really two things.  One is to provide a fair
15        hearing.  The other thing is to do is in - - in 
16        - - in, at least, an expeditious way, because
17        there are other individuals who also deserve fair
18        hearings, and when - - when there are items that
19        have been sent in advance, I believe it is
20        incumbent upon individuals to look and
21        acknowledge that, so that we don't have to go
22        over and - - and if there's a translation,
23        ultimately, for items that were provided in
24        advance, my hope is that - - that an individual
25        client would take due interest in saying I don't

00017
 1        speak well the English language, but I've been
 2        given this here in advance, multiple days, some
 3        of the items in your packet perhaps even earlier
 4        than - - than going back to Saturday, and it is
 5        the due responsibility of that client, you, as
 6        their attorney, to get together and say, these -
 7        - this is what we have before us.  Now, with a
 8        translator in the room we got to go over A and B
 9        and C.  Now, for us to sit here at this
10        particular hearing, I'm talking to the attorney
11        here, but not for us - - 
12                  TRANSLATOR:  But with all due respect,
13        it has nothing to do with my job here.  We're
14        trying to decide if we're going to do consecutive
15        or simultaneous.  That's the - - 
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  You know what? 
17        We're going to - - We're going to - - We're going
18        to recess here for five minutes and we'll
19        determine that, okay.  
20                  (Whereupon a recess was taken.)
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  This is a resumption of
22        the Common Council's Licenses Committee.  I think
23        how we're going to do this and - - and try to
24        expedite it, Mr. Arena, is we'll go back into
25        recess for two minutes.  We will have the

00018
 1        interpreter read the - - the police report and
 2        the revised police report to the clients, so that
 3        they have an understanding of what is being - -
 4        what is entailed in that police report.  We will
 5        have the Sergeant then read the police report
 6        without delay, and you, as their attorney, can
 7        verify that what is read in is actually identical
 8        to what is translated to them here on the side. 
 9        Is that acceptable to you then?
10                  MR. ARENA:  That's acceptable, thank
11        you very much.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  All right. 
13        We'll - - We'll go back into recess for two more
14        minutes, allow you adequate time to have the - -
15        the translator read that to both of you, and then
16        we'll resume then, okay?  All right.  We'll be
17        back in recess for two more minutes.
18                  (Whereupon a recess was taken.)
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We're - - We're back
20        here in committee.  Have you had an opportunity
21        to finish?  If not, I'll provide you another
22        minute or two - -
23                  TRANSLATOR:  I'm halfway.
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Please proc - -
25        Why don't you go ahead and proceed?  We'll just 

00019
 1        - - We'll sit here quietly in open session here
 2        while you just finish, okay.
 3                  (Whereupon translator continued review
 4        and translation of the police report with the
 5        applicants.)
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Mr. Chairman, I want
 7        to thank you for your indulgence on - - on that
 8        issue.
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sure.
10                  MR. ARENA:  And I - - I do apologize.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No problem.  It's
12        understandable.  We want to make certain that
13        they are aware.  Let me just ask our two
14        applicants.  You have had the police report
15        translated and do understand the police report
16        that will be read in at this point?
17                  THE APPLICANTS:  Yes.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  What we'll do
19        is, is we will have the Sergeant read the police
20        report, and you can - - your - - your attorney
21        then can acknowledge that if what he is saying is
22        at least what we have on the police report before
23        us, that you've already understood and had
24        translated for you.  Sergeant, the police report,
25        please.

00020
 1                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  On 6/1 of '08 at
 2        approximately 1:13 a.m. Milwaukee police were
 3        dispatched to 23rd and Forest Home Avenue for a
 4        shooting complaint.  On arrival officers observed
 5        the victim, who was later found to have sustained
 6        two gunshot wounds, sitting against the outside
 7        wall of the La Espanola tavern.  Investigation
 8        revealed an argument and fight to have taken
 9        place inside the tavern.  Security escorted the
10        parties outside at which time shots were fired,
11        two of which struck the victim as he stood in the
12        doorway.  Initial statements by the victim and
13        his relative, identified as security guard, later
14        found to be a Rinaldo Malendez, also known as
15        Vladimir Combre, as the suspect who fired the
16        shots.  Subsequent investigation, however,
17        identified a different suspect, Alexis Sanchez
18        Luando, who was later arrested and charged with
19        the shooting.  Interviews of several witnesses
20        were conducted.  One witness stated the - - that
21        following of the shooting, he observed the
22        security guard, Malendez, stated to the suspect,
23        Sanchez, "Come on, we got to go."  They then
24        entered the security guard's vehicle and left the
25        scene.  An additional witness stated he observed

00021
 1        the security guard state to the suspect, "Let's
 2        get out of here."  They then entered the security
 3        guard's vehicle and left the scene.  The owners
 4        of the tavern, Pablo De La Cruz and Oliva Arias,
 5        were interviewed and stated they were behind the
 6        bar and did not see a fight or hear shots.  Ms.
 7        Arias stated she saw people running, got nervous,
 8        and called the police.  
 9                  Based on the description of his auto,
10        the security guard, Malendez, was located and
11        interviewed.  He stated he was employed by the
12        owner of the tavern, Mr. De La Cruz, as a
13        security guard on the night of the shooting.  He
14        states he is paid 100 dollars cash for checking
15        IDs and patting people down for weapons on the
16        weekend.  An argument and fight broke out inside,
17        and he and the owner began to push people out of
18        the bar.  He stated he heard shots and went to
19        his vehicle to leave the scene.  He entered his
20        vehicle, at which time a person later found to be
21        the suspect, whom he stated he didn't know,
22        entered and told him to drive him from the scene
23        or he would harm him.  Mr. Malendez later
24        recanted his story and identified the shooter as
25        Sanchez Luando, the person who drove from the

00022
 1        scene.  Mr. Malendez was arrested for aiding or
 2        harboring a felon, however, the DA did not charge
 3        him.  The suspect in the case, Sanchez Luando,
 4        was arrested on November 19th, 2008 in
 5        Connecticut.  He admitted being a patron at the
 6        tavern the evening of the shooting.  He further
 7        stated he has frequented the tavern and knew the
 8        security guard, Malendez, as he has repaired his
 9        auto.  He stated he left just prior to the
10        shooting, went to his auto and left.  He does
11        admit to seeing an argument as he was leaving the
12        tavern and hearing gunshots when he was walking
13        away from the tavern and toward his car.  He
14        further stated that his move to Connecticut
15        following the shooting was a planned move and in
16        no way was connected to the incident.  Mr.
17        Sanchez Luando was charged with first degree
18        reckless injury, however, the case was dismissed
19        in court when the State's witness failed to
20        appear.  
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Sergeant. 
22        Mr. Arena, I'm going to ask you at this time if
23        you have any questions or comments that you would
24        like to raise.  I do have your standing objection
25        to this as hearsay.

00023
 1                  MR. ARENA:  Yes.  Thank - - Thank you,
 2        Mr. Chairman.  I do have some questions for the
 3        Sergeant.
 4                  Now, Sergeant, this, what you're
 5        reading is a summary of police reports, not the
 6        actual police reports.  Isn't that correct?
 7                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  That is correct.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  And the drafter of this
 9        summary is who?
10                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Myself.
11                  MR. ARENA:  And have you - - you've
12        reviewed the entire body of the police reports
13        yourself then?
14                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Yes.
15                  MR. ARENA:  And one issue that you've
16        put into your summary is that the - - at the top
17        of the page, they then entered the security
18        guard's vehicle and left the scene.  Do you
19        recall, and is it not a fact that there were
20        differing stories about how they left the scene,
21        and some people said it was a red car.  Some
22        people said it was a green car.  Do you recall
23        that?
24                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  There were many,
25        many, many conflicting statements.  The majority

00024
 1        of the statements were it was a green car, to the
 2        best of my recollection.  The statement that
 3        you're referring to, I believe, was a statement
 4        of the - - the suspect, Sanchez.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  Somebody did mention that
 6        in a third party or an independent witness did
 7        mention a red car, did they not?  Do you recall
 8        that somebody mentioned a red car?
 9                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  To the best of my
10        recollection, I don't recall a red car being
11        mentioned by someone.  That's not out of the
12        realm of possibility.  Again, because there were
13        so many conflicting stories in this case.
14                  MR. ARENA:  And the DA did not charge
15        Mr. Malendez with any crime.
16                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  That is correct.
17                  MR. ARENA:  And the person that was
18        charged was Sanchez Luando, based on eye witness
19        testimony that he fit the description of the
20        person who did the shooting.  Isn't that correct?
21                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Among other
22        statements, yes.
23                  MR. ARENA:  And the criminal case
24        against Alexis Luando, that was charged and Mr.
25        Luando was brought to the jurisdiction from

00025
 1        Connecticut.  Correct?
 2                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Yes.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  And he appeared in court? 
 4        Have you done any checking or verifying of what
 5        happened in court?
 6                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  I recall reading the
 7        transcript as it is entered in CCAP, and I
 8        believe he did appear in court.  And I would have
 9        to refresh my recollection and look at it again. 
10        But I - - I believe he was present in court.
11                  MR. ARENA:  And the case was dismissed
12        at the preliminary hearing.  Correct?
13                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  I don't know if it
14        was at the preliminary hearing or if it was the
15        one following the preliminary hearing on motions.
16                  MR. ARENA:  Have you reviewed the CCAP
17        record?
18                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  I did at some point.
19                  MR. ARENA:  Do you need the CCAP record
20        to refresh your recollection?
21                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  I believe I have it,
22        but if you have a copy handy real quick.  
23                  MR. ARENA:  And CCAP indicates that the
24        case was dismissed upon the defense motion,
25        because the State was unable to proceed.  Is that

00026
 1        your understanding, based on the CCAP entry?
 2                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Well, that's the
 3        part that was confusing to me.  The preliminary
 4        hearing appears to have been held on 12/2, but
 5        then the text here states the case is adjourned
 6        to Branch PE for preliminary hearing
 7        continuation.  And that's the part that - - that
 8        I was confused with.  It then - - It then
 9        continued to 12/10 of '08 at which time it was
10        dismissed.  So I guess it was a continuation of
11        the preliminary - - 
12                  MR. ARENA:  And what is the reason that
13        it - - What is the reason that it was dismissed
14        on 12/10 of '08, the CCAP entry that I provided
15        to you?
16                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  It says, as I
17        indicated, the State unable to proceed.  No
18        witnesses available.  The State's witnesses did
19        not appear.
20                  MR. ARENA:  And that witness most
21        likely was the victim.  Correct?
22                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  That, I don't know.
23                  MR. ARENA:  It's not uncommon for
24        victims not to appear - - 
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Arena, I - - If you

00027
 1        just could wait until you're seated here, and so
 2        that we can get you on the record on the
 3        microphone, on the tape.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  How long have you been a
 5        police officer?
 6                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  35 years.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  And in those 35 years
 8        you've probably been involved with some
 9        prosecutions and felony matters.
10                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Yes.
11                  MR. ARENA:  You're familiar on how a
12        preliminary hearing works.  Correct?
13                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Yes.
14                  MR. ARENA:  And in a preliminary
15        hearing enough evidence must be adduced to bind
16        over the defendant.  Right?
17                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Yes.
18                  MR. ARENA:  And that evidence has to be
19        eye witness testimony to at least establish that
20        a crime was committed and the defendant may have
21        been the person to commit that crime.  Right?
22                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  Well, it doesn't
23        have to be eye witness.  There have been cases
24        that have gone forward without that.  There's
25        been physical evidence and other evidences that

00028
 1        are presented, but that is one part.  It could be
 2        one part of it.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  And generally, the victim
 4        is asked to testify at a preliminary hearing to
 5        establish that a crime occurred.  Correct?
 6                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  In some cases, yes.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  And typically, when the
 8        victim does not show up to testify at the
 9        preliminary hearing, the case gets dismissed. 
10        Right?  This is not uncommon.
11                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  This is not
12        uncommon.  I mean, I - - There have been
13        homicides that have defended - - or the suspect
14        is found guilty, and, of course, the victim isn't
15        there. 
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Arena, and I guess
17        I don't want to, at this point, unless we know,
18        speculate, and just we'll ask you to move forward
19        with raising questions in - - in the police
20        report as to - - as to - - as opposed to asking
21        the Sergeant his own speculation as to why this
22        may have been dismissed.
23                  MR. ARENA:  Now, you didn't participate
24        in the investigation that makes up your summary
25        that you read to the committee today?

00029
 1                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  I did not
 2        participate in the criminal investigation.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  And best as you can tell
 4        from CCAP, an important State witness did not
 5        show up to testify at the preliminary hearing and
 6        the case was dismissed.
 7                  SERGEANT ULICKEY:  According to CCAP,
 8        this case was dismissed because State - - the
 9        State's witness did not appear.
10                  MR. ARENA:  No further questions.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you.  Are
12        there questions by committee members of the
13        police report at this time?
14                  What I will entertain at this point is
15        we have a packet of materials that includes the 
16        - - the petition to Circuit Court by Mr. Arena on
17        behalf of his clients, which includes District
18        Attorney's charges, a more, as Mr. Arena was
19        alluding to, a more extensive - - the - - the
20        full-fledged police report as opposed to the
21        summary.  What I will just do at this time and it
22        constitutes the - - the bulk of items in our
23        individual packet, and we'll have Alderman
24        Hamilton move to - - to make all of these items
25        part of our permanent record in this proceeding,

00030
 1        and - - and hearing no objection to that, so
 2        ordered.
 3                  At this time here, Mr. Arena, I will
 4        allow you to provide an opening if you so desire
 5        here.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Yes, I do.  Thank you, and
 7        I - - I appreciate that opportunity.  I have
 8        prepared some information.  It was actually
 9        prepared by me last night.  Sorry it wasn't
10        submitted sooner, but sometimes this is the
11        manner in which I am able to obtain information. 
12        I have six copies here for members of the
13        committee.  The seventh copy I will share with
14        Alderman Donovan, as I go through it.  It will
15        allow me to keep organized and - - and proceed in
16        an orderly fashion, so that we are expedient.
17                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If - - If you just want
18        to hold on one moment, Mr. Arena, we'll have
19        Alderman Zielinski move to make this packet,
20        which is a multiple page packet, which looks as
21        though it starts with a photo of the - - of the
22        capacity of the club, part of our official record
23        in this proceeding, and hearing no objection to
24        that, so ordered.  Please proceed, as you will.  
25                  Please proceed.

00031
 1                  MR. ARENA:  I - - I am aware that the
 2        committee is somewhat familiar with issues and 
 3        - - and things that have occurred regarding this
 4        location, La Espanola.  It has been here for a
 5        hearing, and I can tell you that in going to
 6        Circuit Court and writing affidavits that I
 7        believe that I adequately investigated what had
 8        occurred and I did have adequate access to people
 9        that were able to translate.  And I have some
10        factual submissions to make to the committee as
11        to what I feel the evidence is going to show.  By
12        way of background I have prepared some
13        information that I think is important for the
14        committee to have.  These are just photocopy
15        documents really.  
16                  I have - - What we're dealing with here
17        is - - is a bar that was probably a bar for a
18        long period of time.  My clients, two years ago,
19        were able to put together the money to put
20        together a business and lease it.  They're - -
21        They're very hardworking people.  They take their
22        duties very seriously.  And they've - - did take
23        steps immediately upon the June incident to make
24        some corrections and improvements.  As you can
25        see from the first page, they - - they have a

00032
 1        limit of 54 persons here.  I point that out. 
 2        This is basically a single bar room with a small
 3        room off to the side that has a pool table.  They
 4        at times had tooled with the idea of having
 5        dances as a way to enhance the business, but they
 6        understand that dancing is not allowed.  They
 7        applied for permits, so they, of course,
 8        understand that when they needed a permit to have
 9        dancing.  They know they can't have it.  They
10        don't allow it.  There's not a designated dance
11        area, dance floor.  You'll hear from several
12        witnesses that will tell you that there is no
13        dancing.  
14                  If you go in one page, they have
15        installed many signs.  They have an absolute
16        policy that there are no drugs.  That everybody
17        has to be 21.  Previous to June there was a
18        private security company that was under contract. 
19        That security company was terminated, fired,
20        because the security was not doing an adequate
21        job in the estimation of the owner, Pablo De La
22        Cruz, in doing pat downs and checking IDs.  The
23        security guard was more interested in watching
24        the television, so he relieved that security
25        company.  In the interim he knew of a person that

00033
 1        he knew as Bebe, which is Rinaldo Malendez.  It
 2        is - - was alleged in the past that Rinaldo
 3        Malendez had a gun and was involved in the
 4        shooting.  That, in fact, is not the case. 
 5        Alexis Luando Sanchez was charged with that
 6        crime.  
 7                  What had occurred is this person that
 8        he knew as Bebe, and this is cultural, especially
 9        in Dominican Republican culture, and this - -
10        these people are from the Dominican Republic. 
11        They know each other by names that aren't really
12        their given names.  For example, Pablo De La Cruz
13        is actually known as Feo.  If you ask most of his
14        customers if they know his real name, they don't
15        - - they wouldn't have a clue on who Pablo De La
16        Cruz is?  So it's not unusual that he would not
17        know Rinaldo Malendez by name.  He actually did
18        provide Rinaldo Malendez - - He did provide that
19        name to the police in a - - in a later interview. 
20        But what had occurred - - I'm sorry - - What had
21        occurred was that he knew of this gentleman named
22        Bebe.  This gentleman was a large gentleman,
23        large enough to be an appropriate figure to be a
24        doorman, and it was his plan to have him there
25        until he could get another company under

00034
 1        contract.  He was bringing back Wisconsin
 2        Security Solutions.  That was his entire plan. 
 3        He eventually did, if you go in several pages,
 4        you'll see that there - - there are invoices and
 5        bills from Wisconsin Security Solutions.  They
 6        provide uniformed security.  They - - They have
 7        badges.  They - - They came to his location and
 8        did an assessment.  And it was their
 9        determination from the neighborhood and gang
10        activity in the neighborhood that they preferred
11        to have one of their security personnel armed for
12        their safety when they were on the sidewalk or
13        armed for their safety in case people came along
14        that were not going to be desirable as customers,
15        that they felt that would be important to be
16        armed.  They have a woman there when security is
17        provided, the woman does frisking of ladies,
18        checks purses, everybody's ID is checked.  I've -
19        - I've worked with this security company before
20        on behalf of clients, and I think that they're
21        probably - - It's probably the best security
22        company for this particular type of role.  I
23        recommend them to my clients regularly, and they
24        do a nice job.  They have regular training.  The
25        previous owner of the company, who died, I

00035
 1        considered a friend.  His name was Charles Lyer. 
 2        Maybe some of you know him.  
 3                  If you go into the fourth page here,
 4        you'll see there's pictures of cameras.  They
 5        have signs up that state, you know, you're on
 6        camera.  Smile.  That is to let people know that
 7        any bad activity, you know, they'll be caught. 
 8        There are signs that tell people that you're
 9        going to be reported to the police if you have
10        any drugs, the police will be called.  Subsequent
11        to this issue that occurred on June 1st, which I
12        think is an isolated incident, if you go towards
13        the back three pages, you'll see information on
14        the camera surveillance system.  It was
15        installed.  As you all are probably aware the
16        Alderman of this district does have something he
17        calls Operation Impact, that is to put cameras
18        out in the community to help aid in crime
19        prevention and crime fighting.  They have spent
20        2,680 dollars.  They have the State of the Art,
21        they have an infrared camera.  They have an
22        infrared high resolution camera for the outside. 
23        If you go to the last page, you will see that the
24        four views include two street views and two views
25        in the bar, one of the area where the pool table

00036
 1        is, which actually has never created a problem,
 2        and you see the small bar area.  And that's
 3        actually on the last page.  These images are
 4        digitally recorded and digitally saved.  I agree
 5        with the Alderman, Alderman Donovan, that this is
 6        an excellent tool in preventing crime from
 7        happening.  And they did take it upon themselves
 8        to install this system.
 9                  They've installed adequate signage. 
10        They've brought in a security company, and I
11        think that the results of their efforts
12        demonstrates that this stuff does work.  Since
13        the June incident that was testified to by the
14        police department here, there have not been any
15        incidents.  There's nothing else reported in the
16        - - the police report.  
17                  Specifically, a couple of issues, and I
18        - - I think with - - what the evidence will show
19        - - Of course, the committee is aware that
20        translation can be a difficult problem.  On the
21        night in question, in fact, telephone calls were
22        made to the 9-1-1 center, and they - - It
23        couldn't be addressed easily because people were
24        speaking in Spanish.  The police obviously were
25        eventually dispatched.  But when the police were

00037
 1        dispatched, there was some confusion, and they
 2        did talk to Pablo De La Cruz, who told them what
 3        had happened.  His wife, Oliva, she did call the
 4        police.  They had a son there who worked for them
 5        that called the police.  Oliva's brother called
 6        the police at least three times, possibly five
 7        times.  And there has been some statements that
 8        Pablo didn't know about an incident or know about
 9        the fight happening.  That's not true.  In my
10        mind he's told me from the beginning, and he'll
11        testify to this committee and the evidence will
12        show that he was very actively involved with what
13        had occurred there.  We also have independent
14        witnesses who were present that will verify that. 
15        He addressed the situation in his mind to protect
16        his customers.  He was - - He's very remorseful
17        that this occurred, and that is why he took the
18        steps that he did after by putting in the cameras
19        and bringing in - - making sure he had adequate
20        security.  
21                  But essentially what had happened is an
22        argument occurred inside.  There was no fight
23        inside.  No punches were thrown.  As I stated
24        earlier, these - - this place is owned by people
25        from the Dominican Republic.  There were some

00038
 1        people from Mexico, and sometimes the cultures
 2        don't necessarily mix very well.  There was an
 3        issue over a lady, and a man from Mexico, I
 4        guess, made an attempt to pick her up or - - or
 5        whatever.  Her boyfriend said that's my
 6        girlfriend.  There was an argument.  The Mexican
 7        gentleman that started the argument were ejected
 8        from the bar, and the boyfriend and the
 9        girlfriend were held in the bar so that there
10        wouldn't be an argument outside, which as you
11        know, you separate the combatants, that's the
12        right thing to do.  You don't throw them outside
13        on the street to get into an argument.  But then
14        what had occurred, the individuals that were
15        thrown out refused to leave.  And somewhere along
16        the line got on the phone and brought in
17        additional people, which we have a witness, Ms.
18        Arias' brother, who saw the person come from
19        another location.  These people tried to regain
20        entry back in.  The people in the bar were
21        calling the police, because they were afraid of
22        these people.  One of these individuals pulled
23        out a gun, and somebody was unfortunately shot,
24        an issue that is shocking to my clients and - -
25        and they're very concerned about it.  But that's

00039
 1        what had occurred.
 2                  I would submit that this is an isolated
 3        incident.  I would submit that they successfully
 4        operated this location for approximately nine
 5        months prior to the incident, and since the
 6        incident through January, without any other
 7        incidents.  When - - What I can say is that this
 8        particular individual, when he got into an
 9        argument outside, was somebody that was also
10        leaving the bar or caught up in this, my
11        understanding is that individual provoked in many
12        ways the fact that the other individual pulled
13        out a gun and shot him.  The victim, I believe
14        his name is Mr. Ortega, was warned to back off,
15        and was engaging in a violent overt way towards
16        this individual, and the individual did warn him,
17        and defended himself.  And it's my understanding
18        that he actually even shot the gun at his foot
19        and said, back off, don't come near me.  And the
20        - - the individual, the victim, did not do that. 
21        I have eye witness testimony that will testify to
22        that, and I submit that I believe that to be
23        valid, accurate testimony, which you will hear
24        from on this committee.
25                  The final issue that I want to touch

00040
 1        upon is the issue of dancing.  I did review the
 2        hearing and have had the transcript of the
 3        previous hearing and an issue was made of
 4        dancing.  I think what occurs in any place when
 5        some music is being played is some people will
 6        kind of listen to the music or enjoy the music
 7        and maybe move to it a little bit, but in no way
 8        is dancing promoted or allowed.  The security
 9        people are here.  They - - They will testify to
10        that.  They - - They are just fairly independent
11        witnesses.  I mean, they're under contract.  If
12        they lose this contract, there's plenty others. 
13        So they'll move along.  They aren't going to lose
14        their job out of it, and I - - I think what
15        they're going to tell you and what I would submit
16        to you is that the place is 54 person.  It's not
17        really big enough for dancing.  Nobody dances. 
18        Somebody might move a little bit on their way to
19        the bathroom or whatever.  Culturally, when they
20        listen to music, they move a little bit.  But
21        this is not dancing, per se, and we will submit,
22        I believe, adequate testimony to address that as
23        an issue.  
24                  With that, I will turn it back to the
25        Chairman.  Thank you.

00041
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Mr. Arena. 
 2        Are there questions that committee members have
 3        of Mr. Arena at this time, and we'll just let the
 4        record reflect that Mr. Schrimpf had another
 5        engagement, and that Tom, welcome, joins the
 6        committee from the City Attorney - - from the
 7        City Attorney's office here.  
 8                  (Off the record.)
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are we situated here
10        then?  Okay.  Questions by committee?  Mr. Arena,
11        I have a question or two.  In our previous
12        testimony I believe it may have been Ms. Arias'
13        brother.  If my recollection serves me, that it
14        was stated that the gentleman who was security at
15        that time was outside security that was hired. 
16        From what I gather, you're saying here, at least
17        what I recall, it is that this - - they were
18        between security companies and he was just a
19        normal acquaintance of theirs.  Is that - - Is
20        that what you were saying?
21                  MR. ARENA:  Well, that individual is
22        present.  His name is Ignacio Arias.  He did - -
23        He came here last time as a translator, but sort
24        of evolved into a witness, and I consider him to
25        be a witness to the entire incident, and he also

00042
 1        did testify before the Circuit Court.  And he's
 2        here to testify today.  Essentially, Mr. De La
 3        Cruz believed - - He always hired security as an
 4        independent contractor.  The person that was
 5        there was somebody that he knew, and he
 6        considered him an independent contractor, but he
 7        did have some control over and instruction to
 8        him.  This person was there as a short term
 9        limited person.  Somewhere along the line, and I
10        don't know where this had occurred, but Mr. De La
11        Cruz was advised to have an actual security
12        company, and maybe that was through his
13        experience in working in various establishments
14        over the years, that he knew that was the best
15        type of security to have for that area.  
16                  I mean - - And the reason is, is, for
17        example, he wants it to be a place where people
18        feel welcomed and more of like a family
19        atmosphere.  For example, when ladies are there,
20        he makes sure that they're walked to their car. 
21        So that was the type of atmosphere that he - - he
22        wanted to create a safe atmosphere, and he
23        believed that security always was on an
24        independent contractor basis, but the individual
25        that was there that night, his name is Rinaldo

00043
 1        Malendez, he's an individual that you've heard
 2        about before.  He was known as - - by his
 3        nickname, Bebe, B-E-B-E.  When the incident
 4        actually occurred, he was with Mr. De La Cruz. 
 5        They were both checking IDs on people at the
 6        door.  When the argument occurred, Mr. De La Cruz
 7        and this Bebe individual had moved the people
 8        that needed to be ejected out to the door.  And
 9        Mr. Malendez went outside and Ignacio was
10        outside, as well, at that time.  He went outside
11        actually, I believe, to make a phone call.  These
12        guys tried to come back in the bar.  And Mr. De
13        La Cruz stayed in the door to prevent them from
14        coming back in, in his mind, he thought to
15        protect people that were inside.  For whatever
16        reason, these people - - they had just arrived
17        there.  They weren't there very long.  They were
18        not regular customers.  They were there out of
19        the blue.  They are - - Not to bring race into
20        this, but these people were from of Mexican
21        descent, and this is really known as a bar of
22        Dominican descent.  And generally, when somebody
23        from Mexico comes in, they kind of know it, and
24        they're kind of on heightened suspicion to it. 
25        And that's why without much delay they asked

00044
 1        these guys to leave, and they probably got upset
 2        that they were asked to leave.  And they thought
 3        that they should be let back in.
 4                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  And I - - And I think if
 6        you - - if you want to ask those questions of Mr.
 7        De La Cruz, I don't want to, you know, given the
 8        language barrier, I don't want it to feel like
 9        I'm the one providing the testimony.  I mean,
10        this is what I understand that he would testify
11        to.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Right.  I - - I do want
13        to ask that of Mr. De La Cruz.  I - - I would
14        like to ask him if - - I would like to ask him if
15        Rinaldo Malendez was - - was part of a formal
16        security company, or - - or if he was just
17        someone that - - that had done security in the
18        past and that Mr. De La Cruz knew.
19                  THE APPLICANT:  He came over that night
20        to help us out.  He - - He was doing the security
21        that night.  He was helping us Thursday, Friday
22        and Saturday.  That's when that incident
23        happened.
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If you may ask him, was
25        - - was Mr. Malendez just someone who would help

00045
 1        out from time to time with - - with the security
 2        duties?
 3                  THE APPLICANT:  He helped us just only
 4        those three days.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Never prior to 
 6        - - to that?
 7                  THE APPLICANT:  He was a client of ours
 8        - - ours.  He - - He would come over.  I knew him
 9        from - - from the tavern, and then I will - - I
10        will ask him to help us out with the security.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  The - - If you
12        may ask him, the initial police report indicated
13        that Mr. De La Cruz was not aware of shots being
14        fired?
15                  THE APPLICANT:  I told the police - - I
16        told the police that I heard the shots.
17                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Was - - Was he himself
18        outside at the door around the time of the
19        shooting or was he in the bar?
20                  THE APPLICANT:  I was inside.
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  Thank you. 
22        That's - - That's all I have for him at this
23        point.  Other questions by committee members? 
24        Alderman Kovac?
25                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  After the shooting did

00046
 1        you have contact with Mr. Malendez?  After the
 2        shooting did you have contact with Mr. Malendez
 3        about what - - what happened?  Did you have any
 4        conversations with - - 
 5                  THE APPLICANT:  No, I haven't had any
 6        contact with him.
 7                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So he hasn't come into
 8        the bar or worked for him again.
 9                  THE APPLICANT:  Since the shooting, we
10        haven't seen him ever.
11                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Did he make any effort
12        to talk to him to find out what happened, or talk
13        to anyone else to find out what happened?
14                  TRANSLATOR:  When you say "him?"
15                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  I mean, Mr. Malendez,
16        first and then we'll - - 
17                  TRANSLATOR:  Can you repeat the
18        question?  Please, just - - 
19                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Did he make any - - He
20        never saw him.  So did he make any effort to try
21        to track him down?
22                  THE APPLICANT:  The police tried to do
23        all - - all they can to - - to get a hold of him
24        and give me that information.
25                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Thanks.

00047
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by
 2        committee?  Alderman Donovan, are there any
 3        questions relating to the opening thus far or the
 4        police report that you have?
 5                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Not at this time.
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  
 7                  MR. ARENA:  Can I ask Mr. De La Cruz a
 8        question?
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Go ahead.  Fine.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. De La Cruz, could you
11        explain what had occurred at the time that the
12        individuals were asked to leave?  Where you were,
13        and explain to the committee what had happened?
14                  THE APPLICANT:  To the people inside
15        the tavern?
16                  MR. ARENA:  To the people inside and
17        out.  What - - What were you doing during this
18        entire incident of June - - June 1st, 2008 at
19        approximately 1:30 a.m.?
20                  THE APPLICANT:  Okay.  I was - - I have
21        still - - I was - - I was still inside the bar. 
22        I was holding the people inside so they will be
23        protected for - - from the problem that was
24        occurring outside.  The police arrived and
25        instruct me to keep the people inside, and that's

00048
 1        what I did.  
 2                  MR. ARENA:  Who was outside while you
 3        were inside?  Could you explain that, please?
 4                  THE APPLICANT:  Mr. Malendez and
 5        Ignacio.  Mr. Ignacio.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  And what were those two
 7        individuals doing?
 8                  THE APPLICANT:  They were trying to
 9        control the people outside, because they were
10        trying to - - to grab some bottles from the
11        garbage to try to throw it inside.  That's - -
12        That's why we try to keep the people inside and
13        protect them from the problem outside.  
14                  MR. ARENA:  How do you know the people
15        were throwing bottles?
16                  THE APPLICANT:  Because they were
17        hitting the - - the windows, and - - and, also,
18        the door.  The bottles were hitting the door.
19                  MR. ARENA:  Were Mr. Malendez and
20        Ignacio asked by you to go outside and try to
21        calm down the situation outside?
22                  THE APPLICANT:  No.
23                  MR. ARENA:  How did they end up outside
24        and you stay inside?  How did that occur?
25                  THE APPLICANT:  Okay.  When we kicked

00049
 1        out the people that started the problem outside,
 2        they were outside controlling.  I was still
 3        inside keeping the people inside so they won't be
 4        assaulted.  I indicated Ignacio, keep calling the
 5        police.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  And how long have you, Mr.
 7        De La Cruz, worked in a - - in a bar prior to
 8        owning this bar and how long have you owned this
 9        bar, leased this bar?
10                  THE APPLICANT:  We were the owners for
11        15 months.
12                  MR. ARENA:  And prior to being the
13        owner, how long - - how many years have you
14        worked inside a bar?
15                  THE APPLICANT:  We were working at that
16        bar forever, always checking and trying to
17        protect from any problem.
18                  MR. ARENA:  That's not the question. 
19        The question is how long has he worked in bars,
20        generally, prior to being the proprietor of La
21        Espanola?
22                  THE APPLICANT:  Oh, five years and a
23        half.
24                  MR. ARENA:  Now on June 1st, the people
25        that you were asking to leave with your security

00050
 1        and Ignacio, had you ever seen those people
 2        before?  Were they customers prior to that night
 3        on June 1st of '08?
 4                  THE APPLICANT:  No.  That was the first
 5        time I ever saw them.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Were you able to tell what
 7        country they were from, what their nationality
 8        was?
 9                  THE APPLICANT:  No, I don't know.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Did they have an argument
11        with somebody who was a customer in the past?
12                  THE APPLICANT:  They grabbed the booty,
13        or the lady.
14                  MR. ARENA:  And did anybody throw any
15        punches or hit anybody inside La Espanola, prior
16        to them being asked to leave?
17                  THE APPLICANT:  They started - - They
18        started yelling, and then they - - they started
19        struggling, and that's why they - - we separated
20        them.
21                  MR. ARENA:  But nobody was punched or
22        hit.
23                  THE APPLICANT:  Inside, no.
24                  MR. ARENA:  And why were they
25        separated?  Could you explain why you separated

00051
 1        these people?
 2                  THE APPLICANT:  We separated them,
 3        because, otherwise, it will be a fight.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  Do you allow dancing inside
 5        La Espanola bar?
 6                  THE APPLICANT:  No.  No.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  Do you promote dancing?  Do
 8        you tell people that they are free to dance?
 9                  THE APPLICANT:  No.  If someone try to
10        or - - or stand up to try to, we tell them, no,
11        it's not possible to dance here.
12                  MR. ARENA:  And during the hours of
13        operation, how often are you present, Mr. De La
14        Cruz?
15                  THE APPLICANT:  I'm present from the
16        moment I'm open until we close.
17                  MR. ARENA:  Before the last hearing you
18        had came to this committee and said that you
19        arrived late and weren't prepared for the
20        hearing.
21                  THE APPLICANT:  Can you repeat that?
22                  MR. ARENA:  The last time you were here
23        when you weren't prepared to proceed.
24                  THE APPLICANT:  Yes.
25                  MR. ARENA:  You had to leave the U.S.

00052
 1        for the Dominican Republic.
 2                  THE APPLICANT:  No, I was not prepared.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  And why did you have to
 4        leave the U.S. for the Dominican Republic at that
 5        time?
 6                  THE APPLICANT:  A cousin of mine was
 7        involved in an accident, and that's when I had to
 8        take him to Dom - - Dominican Republic.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  What - - Did you take your
10        cousin when your cousin was alive, or was he
11        deceased?
12                  THE APPLICANT:  He was dead.
13                  MR. ARENA:  And was that at your
14        expense that you transported your cousin?
15                  THE APPLICANT:  My cousin and I paid
16        for transportation.
17                  MR. ARENA:  I would defer any further
18        questions to the committee, or I'm done.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Mr. Arena. 
20        Alderman Kovac?
21                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  A follow-up to your
22        previous testimony about how - - how long Mr.
23        Malendez had worked there.  I'm - - I'm rereading
24        the full police report, which we now have, and
25        according to Mr. Malendez, he indicated that he

00053
 1        worked as a doorman at the tavern for four to six
 2        weeks.  He checks identification, checks patrons
 3        for weapons.
 4                  THE APPLICANT:  No.
 5                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So his statement to
 6        the police was inaccurate.
 7                  THE APPLICANT:  Maybe if I didn't
 8        answer correctly, maybe they - - they asked me
 9        that in English, but he only worked there for
10        three days.
11                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  No, this was Mr.
12        Malendez' statement to the police.
13                  THE APPLICANT:  No, he's wrong.
14                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.  
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by
16        committee?  Alderman Donovan, any questions from
17        you?
18                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  No.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Not at this time, okay. 
20        Unless there is any other objection, at this time
21        I would like to move into any neighborhood
22        testimony.  It is the protocol of the - - the
23        committee to hear from indiv - - any individuals
24        who are here in opposition to the license first,
25        and then supporters.  So, first, if there are any

00054
 1        individuals who are here present who are here to
 2        testify in opposition to the license for La Espan
 3        - - Espanola, if I could see a show of hands? 
 4        You are here to oppose the license, sir?  You are
 5        here to oppose, as well?  If you could raise your
 6        right hand, we'll swear you in at this time.
 7                  (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.)
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What we'll ask for you
 9        to do is we'll call you forward.  I'm going to
10        ask that you take a seat in the front row. 
11        Unless you are unable to do so, because
12        physically you need to take a seat, we would ask
13        that you would take the stand and use the
14        standing microphone.  We will need your name and
15        your address for the record, and then any
16        testimony as to things you have personally seen
17        or witnessed with this establishment and your
18        reason for opposition.  So, there were two
19        individuals, a gentleman and - - and a lady.  If
20        you could please both come forward and take this
21        front row here, we'll then take your testimony,
22        please.  Thank you.
23                  And, sir, we'll - - we'll start with
24        you.  If you just want to take the standing
25        microphone here, if you're able to do so, please. 

00055
 1        You can move that down.  We'll need your, again,
 2        your name and your address first for our record.
 3                  THE WITNESS:  I am Reverend Jesus
 4        Ortega.  My address if 1509 South 8th Street,
 5        Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Reverend Ortega, just
 7        O-R-T-E-A-G-A?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  T-E-G-A.
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  T-E-G-A.  Okay.  Thank
10        you for clarifying that.  All right.  Please
11        proceed with your testimony.
12                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  I'm here this
13        morning because I am the father of the victim,
14        okay.  And I have found a lot of either
15        misinterpretations on the police report, because
16        I was that night - - I was that night on the - -
17        the accident happened.  I was there.  I was not
18        there as a customer.  I went there after somebody
19        called me and told me that my - - my son had had
20        an accident there.  I didn't know at that time
21        that there was a shooting.  But I was there
22        immediately, and then I found him laying next to
23        the front door of the bar.  I start questioning
24        to the police.  The police asked me who I was.  I
25        told them, and then at that moment on then, I was

00056
 1        blocked from the bar, the people, and they sat me
 2        down in a police car in the back, and they lock
 3        it.  From then on, all that while I was there
 4        between 45 minutes to an hour, nobody did make
 5        any kind of statements to me what was going on. 
 6        All I know is that I recognized my son, because
 7        the squad car that was - - was very close to him,
 8        maybe like about ten feet away, probably.  
 9                  It started clearing out and after that,
10        then they released me, and they told me not to
11        ask any questions, just to go home.  I felt very
12        uncomfortable about that.  I went to the
13        hospital, and I find a lot of, as I said before,
14        it's either misinformation on the police report,
15        either from the witnesses or either from the
16        writers.
17                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I have to
18        object to his characterizing what his opinion is
19        to misinformation.  I mean, I don't really know
20        that he's in a position to give opinion on that,
21        being that he wasn't present when people were
22        interviewed.  It serves with the hearsay rule.
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And it is, Reverend
24        Ortega, you can speak to items that you see - -
25        yourself saw or witnessed, but other - - other

00057
 1        than that, we would ask you just to hone - - hone
 2        your testimony into - - to those items, and not
 3        necessarily - - 
 4                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.  But with all due
 5        respect even here in this, I give respect to
 6        everybody - - everybody's time.  I'm here since
 7        this morning.  And I didn't tell anybody
 8        anything.  I'm just listening, because I wanted
 9        to.  So I don't want to make this thing a big
10        story.  I'm only basing myself on these, what I
11        have seen this morning.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Maybe you can
13        articulate what you saw or conversation that you
14        had that was different, that - - 
15                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  One of the things
16        is if I understood right, they said that this run
17        is based on their cultural basis from the
18        attorney.  Saying that the Mexicans and the, I
19        don't know, Dominicans, they don't get along. 
20        That's what I got out of it.  This is Wisconsin. 
21        We have to rule whatever basis are there on
22        Wisconsin's laws, not on our background, culture. 
23        If I'm wrong on that, then I feel uncomfortable
24        about it.
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yeah.

00058
 1                  THE WITNESS:  The other part is, I
 2        don't know about the owner's responsibility. 
 3        I've been at - - at that bar three times after
 4        the accident.  I saw him there.  And he probably
 5        don't remember seeing me there either.  So more
 6        often, accident it makes an inaccurate statement
 7        to me, because I think that I could recall
 8        everybody in this room if I had to and I'm going
 9        to need them for a reason tomorrow. 
10                  The other part that I feel again in
11        comfortablility, I'm part of the neighborhood. 
12        I've been part of the neighborhood for 45 years. 
13        And I like to see that environment in all this
14        area, it shouldn't be based on cultural, cultural
15        background.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you. 
17        Thank you for - - 
18                  THE WITNESS:  The other part that I
19        don't like is that they say that the victim
20        didn't show up and the shooter was released.  Now
21        that's a very funny situation.  I didn't know
22        that until now.  But I did know that somebody had
23        approached my son not to show up.  Under what
24        circumstances, if it was life-threatening, or if
25        it was a warning threatening, or whatever it was,

00059
 1        but there was a reason why he didn't show up.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Today, you're talking
 3        about?
 4                  THE WITNESS:  No.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Or at the - - 
 6                  THE WITNESS:  The other time, the time
 7        of - - 
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Before the court
 9        system.
10                  THE WITNESS:  Before the court system. 
11        The person that facing is here in this room.  If
12        it's necessary, I'll point him out.  I would like
13        to see why if somebody coming out to see my son
14        and tell him not to testify against the shooter.
15                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Mr. Chair?
16                  THE WITNESS:  Those things are not
17        being brought up.  I hear a story here that it
18        was based on a couple of pages of the police
19        report, and this is the police report, 112 pages. 
20        That's a lot of controversial things here to what
21        has been said.  I don't have anything against
22        anybody.  The bar is a bar is a business.  Sadly
23        it happened that way.  But some kind of
24        information has to be given to the committee.  I
25        wish I would have been informed before, but I

00060
 1        held - - 
 2                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chair, could I caution
 3        you to - - 
 4                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yeah.  Reverend Ortega,
 5        let me just - - 
 6                  MR. ARENA:  - - hearsay - - 
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'm going to need to
 8        cut you off here now, and - - and I'll do that
 9        with all due respect, and in saying this much.  I
10        - - I understand your frustration.  I can assure
11        you that the committee is frustrated inasmuch as
12        we want all of the facts before us, but we are
13        limited by the police report as it is
14        investigated and written and summarized.  You
15        showing up, if you are aware of things, based on
16        a conversation with your son, I understand that. 
17        However, if your son is not present before this
18        committee, sworn under oath, providing direct
19        testimony to this committee that counters what 
20        - - what is in the police report, you relaying
21        saying that things are inaccurate is what
22        becomes, called under the legal system, hearsay. 
23        It does not mean that I don't trust you as a
24        credible person.  It just says that there is a
25        rule of law that this committee must abide by,

00061
 1        and unless your son is present, you telling me
 2        things are inaccurate, is - - is not - - 
 3                  THE WITNESS:  I don't think they are
 4        inaccurate.  I think they are misleading.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  And I - - And I
 6        can appreciate - - And I can appreciate that,
 7        Reverend Ortega, that there - - that there is
 8        certainly probably a gray area here, and that
 9        what we have before us does not necessarily
10        represent all the truth.  We have to try to
11        ascertain as best we can with what - - with what
12        evidence direct is - - is applied to us, and
13        based on the police reports as they've been, as
14        best they can, articulated and summarized and
15        investigated.  So I do appreciate your testimony
16        here.  I'm going to ask you if there's anything
17        else directly that you witnessed that night or
18        any other times regarding this bar, that it be
19        more specific to the bar, or that the police
20        incident, if you - - if you could relay them. 
21        Otherwise, we'll see if there are questions for
22        you.
23                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  My suggestion then
24        is, like I said before, all I have - - I have the
25        idea that the committee should be informed

00062
 1        properly - - properly.  There is - - There is a
 2        language confusion here.  I respect everybody's
 3        profession, but I am bilingual myself, Hispanic/
 4        English, and I don't need questions to be double-
 5        asked, because I am bilingual.  I hold a
 6        Doctorate Degree from UWM and Wayne State College
 7        in Detroit, Michigan.  I have to back up those
 8        credentials, those certifications.  And one time
 9        is fine, but two, three times, this is a serious
10        thing, because here is a license that's in place. 
11        I just - - I don't want to wait for another
12        victim, that it may be worse.  I would say that
13        it should be cited more carefully.
14                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
15                  THE WITNESS:  To see if it's - - If it
16        can really earn the credibility of the community,
17        because I am part of the community.  I understand
18        that they are parts, also.  But in order to - -
19        to come up to a good ending here for part of the
20        ownership of the business, let's read this thing
21        accurately.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yeah.
23                  THE WITNESS:  And let's understand it
24        accurately.  I would recommend their attorney to
25        hire an interpreter, a bilingual, a real

00063
 1        bilingual person.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Reverend Ortega, what 
 3        - - what I - - I'm going to - - I'm going to have
 4        to cut you off here now.  What - - What I will
 5        tell you is there is a - - what was read in the
 6        record here is what's called a summary.  It was
 7        the Reader's Digest version of the police report. 
 8        We have a lengthier police report of the
 9        investigation of this in - - in our agenda, which
10        committee members are sent days in advance, and
11        it is our job to read that in advance.  We then
12        officially, rather than reading that extensive
13        report, made it a part of the record earlier when
14        I - - when I made it - - had - - when the other
15        Aldermen make it part of the record.  So it is
16        under consideration and members should have read
17        it, okay.  I just want to assure you of that.  So
18        at this point, are there questions by committee
19        members of Reverend Ortega?  
20                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Yeah, very quickly. 
21        Other than the shooting and the - - your concerns
22        about future shootings, do you have any other
23        concerns as a resident of the neighborhood about
24        this bar, how it operates on a daily basis?
25                  THE WITNESS:  From the neighborhood,

00064
 1        like I said, I don't want to speak for the
 2        neighborhood.  They know the neighborhood
 3        themselves.  They've been there.  I don't want to
 4        be, like I said, I don't want to be against them,
 5        or I don't want to be - - But just by the same
 6        activiity before, that somebody approached my son
 7        outside the court, outside the bar, outside where
 8        - - not to show up.  I - - I want to make that
 9        person responsible, if something happens to me
10        physically, the rest any of the members of my
11        family, and I have you people as witnesses of
12        this.  
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
14                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Mr. Chairman.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Donovan.
16                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Yeah.  Thank you.  I
17        - - Reverend Ortega, I appreciate you coming
18        down, and - - and I'd like you to, at least, my
19        questions revolve around this particular issue. 
20        It's your testimony that your son was approached
21        by someone.  Is it your feeling that this - -
22        this individual threatened your son so as to not
23        testify in court?
24                   THE WITNESS:  Right.  
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Donovan, it is

00065
 1        - - 
 2                  MR. ARENA:  Object.  Dealing with
 3        hearsay, Alderman Donovan.
 4                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  It is hearsay.  And - -
 5        And I - - I mean, I appreciate that he's already
 6        stated that.  I think it's been clear, but it is
 7        - - it is hearsay, because the individual's not
 8        present.  And - - And so - - 
 9                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Well, I'd just like
10        it - - So you are also familiar with who this
11        individual is?
12                  THE WITNESS:  No.
13                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Who had approached
14        your son?
15                  THE WITNESS:  No.  Oh, the one that
16        approached my son, yes.
17                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Is he connected with
18        this establishment?
19                  THE WITNESS:  He may be.
20                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  You also had
21        mentioned - - 
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I mean, that's - -
23        that's a speculation, as well, too, here.  And 
24        I - - 
25                  THE WITNESS:  Well, not speculation.  I

00066
 1        know he is.  Only using it - - Just where we are
 2        right now the individual is here.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Reverend - - Reverend,
 4        okay - - 
 5                  THE WITNESS:  He's HERE already.
 6                  MR. MILLER:  This goes back to
 7        maintaining the integrity of the record, this is
 8        a line of questioning that shouldn't be pursued
 9        because we're talking now about multiple levels
10        of hearsay and a lack of foundation.  I don't
11        want that to taint the record that's produced
12        today.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And what I'll tell you,
14        again, Reverend Ortega, and - - and, Alderman
15        Donovan, I think you're aware of this, as well,
16        too.  You can - - In a legal forum you can ask
17        the line of question that frankly may have truth,
18        but the fact is is unless those individuals are
19        themselves here to provide that testimony, the
20        fact that somebody - - I tell you something based
21        on what I heard, you may trust me fully and you
22        may know what I told you, but if somebody asks
23        you that, that becomes hearsay, because it's one
24        person removed.  And that's just what the - -
25        what the legal parameters are that we have before

00067
 1        us.  I'm not doubting veracity of - - of - - of
 2        Reverend Ortega's testimony.  I'm just saying,
 3        legally it is out of the scope and bounds of what
 4        this committee can consider.  That's what it is. 
 5        So if you have additional questions - - 
 6                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  I still have - - I
 7        have another question.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yes, please.  Please.
 9                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Reverend Ortega, you
10        had indicated that you had visited this
11        establishment three times, I think you had said,
12        since the incident.
13                  THE WITNESS:  Right.
14                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Can I ask you what
15        have you observed, if that information is
16        acceptable to the committee?
17                  THE WITNESS:  What I wanted to see is
18        if there was enough room for all these things,
19        you know, that were going - - that have said here
20        in the committee.  And the - - the police had to
21        be called up to the shooting when the incident,
22        whatever kind of incident the inside evoked, it
23        was before the shooting inside the bar.  And this
24        has been rewritten somehow.  This is a different
25        new story that is - - is here.  Is here - - It is

00068
 1        here where - - where the incident started inside
 2        the bar.  I just wanted to see how far - - how
 3        much distance is from here, if I see somebody
 4        evolving there, if I'm behind the bar, if I
 5        cannot see it.  And I can see it.  We're not
 6        talking about a superbowl bar.  We're talking
 7        about a small corner bar where if I am the
 8        bartender, I can see everything what's going on
 9        there.  And when there's two people or three
10        people, including the security, and not sees but
11        they are part of it before the shooting, that's
12        why I went to see.  If it was such a large bar,
13        or if it was, you know, something that it could
14        be credible.
15                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman - - 
16                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Did you observe
17        anything else?
18                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I - - For
19        purposes of this record, I really have to request
20        that you strike that answer.  First of all, he's
21        testifying to what factually took place in the
22        bar when he testified he wasn't there.  He says
23        that there was enough space for people to do - -
24        to observe things, but my client testified that
25        he was aware and he did help eject the people. 

00069
 1        And he's stating factually things that he has no 
 2        basis or knowledge or foundation to testify to.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Well, and - - and I'll
 4        concur at least in terms of trying to extrapolate
 5        that to the incident that's in our police report. 
 6        But, Reverend Ortega, if there are things that
 7        you witnessed during those times, you can relay
 8        them here.
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Well, what I saw in
10        there, like I said, it was again the police was
11        blocking from the car I was sitting.  And - - 
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  You're talking about
13        the night of the incident.
14                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The shooting incident.
16                  THE WITNESS:  And I remember seeing the
17        owner of the bar by the door.  By the door when
18        the door was open.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  But this was - - 
20                  THE WITNESS:  And there was - - There
21        was some - - some - - some nights later on I know
22        that there are security.
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  How long after you were
24        called was it that you saw Mister - - Mr. De La
25        Cruz at the door?

00070
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Well, I got there before
 2        they took my son to the hospital.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And you would say - - 
 4                  THE WITNESS:  And immediately I was
 5        approached by the police and sat me in a car
 6        there, almost right - - right out of the bar a
 7        couple of feet away.  I could see what was going
 8        on.
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sir, if I have - - I
10        just want to say this for the record, not only do
11        I not want individuals to have telephones on
12        here, if we have outbursts from the - - from the
13        crowd, we will ask those individuals to leave. 
14        So if we could please refrain from that.
15                  MR. MILLER:  Mr. Chair, quick question.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Miller, go ahead.
17                  MR. MILLER:  Mister - - Or, Reverend
18        Ortega, do - - Had you been in the bar before
19        June 1st?
20                  THE WITNESS:  I was right after.  I
21        don't remember the dates.  Right after the
22        incident.
23                  MR. MILLER:  Okay.  But my question is,
24        had you - - Before - - 
25                  THE WITNESS:  I'm not accurate with

00071
 1        dates.
 2                  MR. MILLER:  Before June 1st - - 
 3                  THE WITNESS:  Or hours or times.
 4                  MR. MILLER:  Before June 1st had you
 5        ever been in the bar?
 6                  THE WITNESS:  Not prior to that
 7        incident.
 8                  MR. MILLER:  Okay.  Thanks.  That's all
 9        I have.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are there - - Are there
11        any other questions committee members have?
12                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Mr. Chair.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderwoman Coggs.
14                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Not a question. 
15        Doesn't require a response, but just want to say,
16        you know, if you feel that your son was
17        threatened, you do have a right and the ability
18        to talk to the Milwaukee Police Department. 
19        Because intimidation of witnesses is something
20        they take extremely seriously.  Although, this
21        may not be the forum to voice that concern.  With
22        the Milwaukee Police Department is the form.  So
23        I just want to encourage you to do that.
24                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, I - - 
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.

00072
 1                  THE WITNESS:  I do have an opportunity
 2        to do that, but still, this is - - this is more 
 3        - - To me it's more of a moral situation when
 4        common sense it's going to be brought up by the
 5        committee and by the owners.
 6                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Thank you.
 7                  THE WITNESS:   Moral situation more
 8        than legal.
 9                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Thank you.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And I understand that. 
11        We appreciate your - - your testimony, coming
12        down here.  Thank you.  Thank you, Reverend.
13                  THE WITNESS:  Thank you.
14                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ma'am, we'll need your
15        - - your name and your address, first, please.
16                  THE WITNESS:  Xochitl Ortega.  2023
17        South 13th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53204.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  And, if you
19        could, a spelling of your first name, please.
20                  THE WITNESS:  X-O-C-H-I-T-L.  
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Please,
22        proceed.
23                  THE WITNESS:  I'm the sister of the
24        victim.  And there are several misinterpretations
25        here that I'm sitting here and I'm listening to. 

00073
 1        My brother - - 
 2                  TRANSLATOR:  I'm sorry.  I'm having
 3        trouble hearing.
 4                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  She said there are
 5        several misinterpretations as I'm sitting here
 6        listening to.
 7                  THE WITNESS:  My brother was the
 8        victim, and I heard - - Well, I was there after
 9        the shooting took place.  I could not get in, so
10        therefore, I had to go along to Froedtert to be
11        with my brother, because I also was called that
12        same night.  I couldn't get in, and I went to the
13        - - to the bar outside, and you couldn't get in. 
14        So anyways, I went along with my brother that
15        night, and unfortunately he had to go through
16        surgery and so forth.  And I'm just glad he's
17        okay.  
18                  And the thing is is that I heard that
19        they said they saw my brother only once that day. 
20        My brother was a customer because of the fact
21        that I have a nephew who lives in the same
22        building that he runs his tavern through.  They
23        live upstairs.  And today, their father is here,
24        and anyways, if there's any truth to that he saw
25        my brother that only day, how is that possible,

00074
 1        because my nephew's father lives upstairs, and
 2        that's why my brother was at his establishment
 3        that night.  They say they're remorseful.  How
 4        are you remorseful if there's - - 
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ms. Ortega, I'm - -
 6        I'm, with apologies, I'm going to cut this off.  
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We are a legal form.  I
 9        understand your extreme frustration and - - and
10        you being upset with this.  I really do.  And I
11        empathize.  No one deserves to - - to endure
12        having been shot, no one.  That being said, what
13        I hear is this is an opportunity for you to vent
14        frustration more than to provide the committee
15        with direct testimony.  We have other individuals
16        who should have been heard on our timely agenda,
17        an hour, hour and a half ago, and at this point
18        it's your opportunity to come and basically point
19        the finger and say, I'm extremely frustrated
20        because my brother didn't deserve to be shot. 
21        You are correct that that's the case.  Unless you
22        have direct testimony to this committee as to
23        things you've seen at this bar that are
24        problematic, I personally went in, and I saw
25        people throwing bottles one night, I saw people

00075
 1        smoking joints, this is a place where people were
 2        dancing, this is a place where it's very wild and
 3        loud.  Unless you have that, at this point I'm
 4        going to ask that we ask for questions regarding
 5        your testimony.  Again, I understand your
 6        frustration, but we are a legal body.  This is
 7        not an opportunity where it's open soapbox to
 8        point the finger and say, I'm frustrated because
 9        I don't think my brother deserved to be shot and
10        I'm frustrated with the way things were handled.
11                  THE WITNESS:  I don't mean that.  I
12        don't mean that.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I - - I - - And trust
14        me, I understand.  But we have - - 
15                  THE WITNESS:  I don't mean that. 
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  - - a legal oblig - -
17        We have a legal obligation, and I do have to
18        expedite this, because it's - - it's not within
19        the confines of what this committee needs.  This
20        committee needs direct evidence.  I personally
21        have witnessed people fighting in that bar.  If
22        you haven't, if you've seen things like that, you
23        let us know.  If not, we're going to have to move
24        on at this point here.
25                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  Thank you.

00076
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  So is - - is there 
 2        any - - 
 3                  THE WITNESS:  No.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, just one
 5        thing I'd quickly add.
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Arena.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  And there's maybe some
 8        misunderstanding that she has stated.  During
 9        this incident the people that were the main
10        combatants that started the fight and eventually,
11        we believe, that was involved with the person who
12        shot her brother were not known.  We're not
13        saying that they didn't know the victim.  And she
14        seems to misunderstand that.  The victim was
15        associated with somebody that lived upstairs. 
16        The victim was a customer in the past.  Why he
17        was outside or how he got outside and got into
18        this argument, I do not know.  But I do have an
19        eye witness that was close enough to this
20        incident that he was hit with an empty shell from
21        the weapon, who will tell you what occurred.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  All right.
23                  THE WITNESS:  Thank you.
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Thank you,
25        Ms. Ortega.  Were there any questions that

00077
 1        committee members had of the witness?  Okay. 
 2        Thank you.  Alderman Donovan, was there anything
 3        else that - - that you wanted to do in terms of
 4        any opening here?
 5                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  No.
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I mean, we'll - - we'll
 7        here from then witnesses - - 
 8                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Yeah, I'll - - 
 9                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  - - on the other side
10        here, but I'll provide you - - 
11                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  - - be more than
12        happy to give my comments.  I'm not an attorney,
13        Mr. Chairman.  I didn't know I had to get an
14        attorney to represent my district in this legal
15        proceedings that is being run here.  Having said
16        that, I'm not - - I've got a full day of
17        schedule.  I have given my testimony in the past. 
18        I believe there is ample evidence to indicate
19        that this establishment has been mismanaged, that
20        there is violence in the community, that
21        unfortunately people are being threatened, people
22        who come forward.  There are people here today
23        who are afraid to testify against this
24        establishment.  That's just pathetic.  There are
25        people who - - 

00078
 1                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I have to
 2        object.  He's - - He's arguing facts that are not
 3        in evidence, and it's in the first brief.
 4                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  I have been
 5        approached by people who are afraid, have told me
 6        first-hand, Mr. Chairman.  Now - - 
 7                  MR. ARENA:  It's hearsay, so let's cut
 8        it off.
 9                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  Okay.  Then I - - I
10        am simply asking the committee, you know the
11        situation here.  I - - I rely on your best
12        judgment and if something terrible happens, I
13        hope to God it doesn't.  I wish these folks the
14        best of luck.  Obviously, they're going to get
15        their license back.  I hope - - My - - My heart
16        goes out to this community.  But those are my
17        comments, Mr. Chairman, and I hope to God
18        everything goes well, and very frustrated with 
19        - - with the whole situation, but thank you.
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.
21                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Mr. Chairman.
22                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I have some
23        questions before you - - 
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  First - - First
25        committee will have an opportunity.  Alderman

00079
 1        Zielinski, first here.
 2                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  I just want to
 3        make a point here for - - for Alderman Donovan. 
 4        These - - These remarks he just shared with us
 5        would constitute his closing remarks, and,
 6        therefore, would not fall under the hearsay rule,
 7        because you're not testifying.  These are your
 8        closing remarks.   
 9                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  These are my closing
10        remarks, or my only remarks, and I - - I leave
11        the decision up, obviously, to the committee.
12                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  But the impression
13        that - -
14                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  You're in a very
15        difficult position.  And I trust your - - your
16        good judgment.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Thank you.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by
19        committee members?
20                  MR. ARENA:  I asked if I could have
21        some questions of the Alderman, please.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Donovan, do
23        you have an opportunity to just answer a couple
24        questions, please?
25                  ALDERMAN DONOVAN:  No, I don't, Mr.

00080
 1        Chairman.
 2                  MR. ARENA:  So you're on record as
 3        refusing to answer questions, Alderman?  Thank
 4        you.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  And I must take exception
 7        with Alderman Zielinski's assertion there, that
 8        if you're going to call this a closing, Alderman
 9        Zielinski, and you know full well, as you have
10        gone to law school, you cannot argue whatever you
11        want in a closing argument.  It has to relate to
12        the evidence that was in the case.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Hold on.  And what - - 
14                  MR. ARENA:  And my objection is timely
15        and appropriate.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Arena, what we'll
17        say is, is that the - - the testimony provided,
18        at least the - - the portions of the testimony
19        provided by Alderman Donovan that allude to
20        others who have spoken to him will be stricken,
21        and as hearsay, and the committee should not
22        consider it.  I - - There is - - There is no
23        exception to that, Alderman Zielinski.  It is - -
24        It is - - It is hearsay.  I mean, as a rule of
25        evidence here before this body, I mean, there are

00081
 1        times where I believe that there is much more
 2        truth than what we have.  We are a body that must
 3        weigh the evidence that is presented to us and
 4        not speculate as to what it is, based on even
 5        somebody who we believe and trust as being
 6        credible, as I do with Alderman Donovan, there is
 7        a rule of law that we must follow, so you want to
 8        - - to address something else?
 9                  Mr. Miller?
10                  MR. MILLER:  I have nothing to say on
11        that.  I mean, I think it's fair to say that if
12        any findings of fact and conclusions of law do
13        come out of this hearing, they will not include a
14        statement that people were told that other people
15        were threatened if they came forward.  We simply
16        do not have any evidence of that in the record
17        that the committee could consider in making its
18        recommendation.  Leave it at that.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  With that said. 
20        With that said, we'll - - we'll start calling
21        forward witnesses, as well, too.  As I indicated
22        earlier, we'll ask the same procedure apply that
23        we take individuals that would come into the
24        front row.  We will - - We'll - - We'll swear you
25        in beforehand.  What we'll need is your name and

00082
 1        your address.  If you have a difficult spelling
 2        or an odd spelling of your name, if you could
 3        please spell that out letter by letter.  And
 4        then, as briefly as possible, your - - your
 5        testimony.  If you are physically unable to take
 6        this standing microphone, we have a seat and - -
 7        and we would provide that to you.  But,
 8        otherwise, to expedite the process, if you could
 9        please, one by one, fill the front row, and then
10        we'll take you - - your testimony forward.
11                  Madame Clerk, if you could at least for
12        anyone who is here to provide testimony in the
13        audience, if you could raise your right hand at
14        this time, we will swear you in.
15                  (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.)
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Lopez, you had a
17        question?  If you want to use a microphone, as
18        well, too, so that we can at least have - - 
19                  All right.  We'll - - We'll take a
20        brief two minute recess then here, and then we'll
21        move forward with this.
22                  (Whereupon a recess was taken.)
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  This is a resumption of
24        the Common Council's Licenses Committee, and we
25        are in the item for - - for La Espanola bar.  We

00083
 1        are going to now hear from witnesses in support
 2        of the license.  Can we have our first witness
 3        here?  Do you want to - - And you can actually
 4        move the microphone up so that we can get you on
 5        - - on tape.  So if you actually could lift it up
 6        to your voice.  We'll need to swear you in - -
 7        You have been sworn in, already, I'm sorry.  Your
 8        - - Your name and your address for our record,
 9        please.  
10                  THE WITNESS:  Ignacio Arias.  
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  And a spelling
12        of Ignacio, please.
13                  THE WITNESS:  I - - I-G-N-A-C-I-O.  A-
14        R-I-A-S. 
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And, Mr. Arias, your
16        address, please.
17                  THE WITNESS:  2347 South 9th Street.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you.  And
19        your testimony, sir.
20                  THE WITNESS:  I just come to tell you,
21        like that day when that happened, I was right
22        there.  And I saw everything what - - what
23        happened.  And like the police report say, like
24        the one guy was - - did it, but I saw it.  And I
25        told the police so many times that was a

00084
 1        different guy.  I don't know them, but I can
 2        tell.  You can tell me to swear.  And I be
 3        telling them - - telling them, and I don't know
 4        why they bring that report too late.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Any - - Anything else
 6        at this time?
 7                  MR. ARENA:  Could you tell them what
 8        happened?  Can you tell them what happened, what
 9        you saw that night?  Not what it says in the
10        police report, what you saw that night.
11                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  I saw the - - When
12        I was outside, a different guy come from the
13        corner, from the liquor store, so another group,
14        like five - - more than five guys, they come,
15        again, the other guy, the one who was walking, so
16        one of them start throwing bottles, throwing
17        bottles.  So the others say, listen, stop it,
18        stop it.  If you keep throwing bottles, I will
19        shoot you, and he keep throwing it.
20                  MR. MILLER:  So who said that?
21                  THE WITNESS:  And - -
22                  MR. MILLER:  I'm sorry to interrupt,
23        but who said, I will shoot you.
24                  THE WITNESS:  The who - - 
25                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Mr. Chairman,

00085
 1        aren't you supposed to recognize people?
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yeah.
 3                  MR. MILLER:  I'm sorry.
 4                  THE WITNESS:  That one he had the gun
 5        outside.  I was outside.  I don't even know their
 6        name.  I just know I was over there, I tried to
 7        separate, and when I see - - He took the gun out. 
 8        I started running.  I cannot stay there.  Even
 9        one bullet go across to me.  I'm barely here.  I
10        told the police, I told the police.  And they
11        say, you have to report it.  I say, I - - I just
12        telling you.  If you want to make a report for
13        that, you can do it, but you don't - - but when
14        he did it, he started running, and then they
15        started throwing bottles to there - - to the bar. 
16        So many that - - And I was right there.  And when
17        I saw him, he shoot the first one, I called the
18        police right away, right away.  Then we don't
19        wait even 30 seconds.
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Questions by
21        committee members?
22                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Mr. Chair?
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Kovac.
24                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  You - - You testified
25        at the last hearing, you made similar statements

00086
 1        then that you're making now.  At that time, I
 2        think, there was more confusion on the committee
 3        level, because we didn't have this detailed
 4        police report.  I want to make sure I understand
 5        what you're saying.  You're saying it wasn't the
 6        bouncer, it was the other guy.  Now you don't
 7        know their names, but let's just see if these
 8        ring a bell.  I believe the - - the bouncer was
 9        Rinaldo Malendez.
10                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
11                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  The guy that ended up
12        getting charged was Alexis Sanchez?  Do you know
13        those names?
14                  THE WITNESS:  No.  I - - I heard it,
15        but when - - So - - 
16                  AUDIENCE SPEAKER:  Hold on.  He's going
17        back.  He's going to get confused again.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No, you're going to
19        have to take a seat here, sir.  
20                  THE WITNESS:  I know those names, but I
21        know they was two different people.
22                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Were you there that
23        night?  Did one of them pull out a gun?  Did you
24        see one of them shoot somebody?
25                  THE WITNESS:  I was getting close to

00087
 1        them, because he was coming from the other side. 
 2        I saw him.  He was coming from the other side?
 3                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Who was him?
 4                  THE WITNESS:  Not Rinaldo.  Rinaldo.
 5                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Alexis, Alex.  Tell us
 6        what you saw Alex do.
 7                  THE WITNESS:  No, I say, when - - Those
 8        guys they start throwing bottles.  Like five,
 9        even on the floor.  And he's saying stop it.
10                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  But who is he?
11                  THE WITNESS:  The - - Alex.  
12                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.
13                  THE WITNESS:  He say, stop it.  And
14        they keep throwing.  I don't know, but them I - -
15        When I tried to go inside them to separate, but
16        then everything happened.
17                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So you saw Alex pull
18        out a gun?  You're nodding, but can you, for the
19        record, can you say what you saw?
20                  THE WITNESS:  I saw him.  I saw him,
21        like I can see when somebody take the gun out. 
22        That's when you start running.  
23                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Did you see him fire
24        the shots or were you running away while the
25        shots were fired?

00088
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Excuse me?
 2                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Did you see him fire
 3        the shots or were you running away with your back
 4        to it while the shots were fired, or what
 5        happened?
 6                  THE WITNESS:  No, I run away after I
 7        hear the first one.
 8                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So you heard the first
 9        one.  Did you see it?
10                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
11                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So what - - You saw
12        Alex shoot the - - shoot someone.
13                  MR. MILLER:  You have to verbalize that
14        for the record.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yes.  If you would say
16        yes or no to that question.
17                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.  Yes.
18                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Now, so Rinaldo
19        Malendez worked at the bar, either for three days
20        or for longer, but the - - Did you know him
21        through working at the bar yourself?  Did you
22        both work at the bar?
23                  THE WITNESS:  No.  This time I was only
24        here like two weeks.  I was - - I'm from New
25        York.

00089
 1                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  And I stay over there for
 3        two weeks, and then I saw him like a few days,
 4        not that much, not that long.
 5                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.  So now when you
 6        say "him" now, you mean Malendez.  
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
 8                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  What about Alex?  How
 9        did you know Alex?
10                  THE WITNESS:  I never see him.  I never
11        saw him.  That was the only day I see him.
12                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.  And you haven't
13        seen him since?
14                  THE WITNESS:  Uh-uh.
15                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Now there's evidence
16        in the police report, testimony from Mr. Malendez
17        that he left that night with Alex.  Did you see
18        any of that?
19                  THE WITNESS:  No.
20                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Or are aware of any of
21        that?
22                  THE WITNESS:   No.
23                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.  The statements
24        you're making now about what you've seen and that
25        you can identify who it was, have you made these

00090
 1        statements to the police?
 2                  THE WITNESS:  If they asked me, I can
 3        identify - - 
 4                  MR. MILLER:  Let the record reflect
 5        that the witness shook his head no.
 6                  THE WITNESS:  No.
 7                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Have you been
 8        interviewed by the police about this incident?
 9                  THE WITNESS:  I was - - I was in the
10        same day for like an hour and a half.
11                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  And you never told the
12        police what you're telling us now.
13                  THE WITNESS:  I told them.  I told
14        them.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Hold on.  So you're
16        saying that everything you mentioned here you've
17        told the police department.
18                  THE WITNESS:  I told the police.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  
20                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  You - - So Alex was
21        charged but nobody showed up to testify.  Why
22        didn't you show up to testify?
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Testify where?
24                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  At the - - Wasn't - - 
25                  THE WITNESS:  Where?

00091
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No, that wasn't - - It
 2        wasn't this gentleman.  I believe it was the
 3        person who was the shooting victim was State's. 
 4        Right?
 5                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Well, I think he
 6        should have - - He should have been a witness.
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Well, that - - that
 8        depends on whether or not - - 
 9                  MR. ARENA:  Well, ask him if he was
10        subpoenaed.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Were you - - Were you
12        subpoenaed to the hearing of - - of - - for - -
13        for the shooting?  Was he called and asked to
14        show up in court for the - - 
15                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Were you present in
17        court?
18                  THE WITNESS:  No, no.  No, no.  They
19        don't - - They never sent me a letter.  They sent
20        me a letter to be away from somebody, and not
21        have contact with someone.  They never sent me a
22        letter to go to - - 
23                  MR. ARENA:  I think it's in your
24        record.  They sent him a letter saying that he
25        was a witness.  Don't have contact with these

00092
 1        people.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Correct.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  But he was not subpoenaed
 4        for - - or asked - - 
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That's not - - And then
 6        that's not his responsibility.  That's the
 7        District Attorney's.  And if you want to do that,
 8        you can call up John Chisolm and ask him what
 9        he's doing.
10                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  My - - My other
11        question is what is your role at the bar? 
12        Because at the last hearing you showed up.  I
13        don't know if you were paid or not, but you were
14        the translator.  Are you employed at this bar?
15                  THE WITNESS:  No.  I just go over
16        there, because it's my sister's bar, and any time
17        they need help, I go and help them.
18                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  What does help mean?
19                  THE WITNESS:  To bring the beer from
20        the - - the basement.  There are so many - - That
21        gentleman he work hard, and so many times he's
22        tired, and I go to help him.
23                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  And are you paid for
24        the help you give him?  Does he pay you?
25                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, no.

00093
 1                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Okay.  So you would
 2        describe yourself as a friend and a patron.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  It's his brother-in-law.
 4                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 5                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Oh, brother-in-law,
 6        okay.  I've got it.  Oh, sorry.  Okay.  
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  Other
 8        questions by committee.
 9                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Mr. Chairman.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Zielinski.
11                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  At the last
12        meeting you testified to the effect that when the
13        music starts playing and you start drinking,
14        people start dancing, and you even dance a little
15        bit.  Can you - - Can you explain that?
16                  THE WITNESS:  No.  I apologize.  You
17        don't understand what I told - - what I told you.
18                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Okay.  So you
19        didn't say that.
20                  THE WITNESS:  I say - - I repeat, and I
21        say when you heard music, like when you in the
22        bar and you heard music, and you like the music,
23        you know, you take your body and - - 
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman - - Alderman
25        Zielinski, I'm going to - - I'm going to inter 

00094
 1        - - interrupt here.  By court order, the - - the
 2        previous document was relegated null and void. 
 3        It is - - doesn't exist.  It - - So any previous
 4        testimony would have to be present testimony as
 5        if you never heard it again, or never heard it
 6        previously.  I mean, for the same reason Alderman
 7        Donovan said he was on record, any testimony that
 8        Alderman Donovan provided here, I'm going to ask
 9        committee members to strike.  Because if you are
10        a witness, you must be present for cross-
11        examination, and he was not.  Whether you're an
12        alderman or not does not grant you privilege to
13        walk out of the room to provide your say and to
14        avoid that.  And I will say that with apologies
15        to him.  My job is when he's frustrated, is to
16        still follow the rule of law as it is his.  So, I
17        mean, your - - your question will have to - - 
18                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  I'll rephrase the
19        question, Mr. Chairman. 
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sure.
21                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Okay.  When - -
22        When you're at the bar, and you hear music and
23        you have a few drinks, or when the patrons are in
24        the bar and they hear music and they have drinks,
25        do you ever dance?

00095
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Not in the bar. 
 2        Different bar.  
 3                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  In a different
 4        bar.
 5                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
 6                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  But not that bar.
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Not that bar.
 8                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Not at that bar. 
 9        When you hear music and you drink and you hear
10        music, you don't dance at that bar.
11                  THE WITNESS:  No.
12                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  And none of the
13        patrons dance there.
14                  THE WITNESS:  No.
15                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  And you don't have
16        any trouble stopping them from dancing, if they
17        do try to dance.
18                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
19                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Okay.  Thank you.
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Well, and then I'll
21        just - - I'll - - I'll follow up.  And - - And
22        I'm going to tell you whether or not that's - -
23        that's the case here, you're under oath, and you
24        know what?  We've got a City Attorney's office
25        that can go after you, based on your transcript,

00096
 1        even if this body can't consider it, I will tell
 2        you you've been before a judge, and you've also
 3        been before this committee under oath where I can
 4        tell you that you have told us that you dance and
 5        there are people that do dance there.  So I will
 6        just tell you, right now, you - - you could be
 7        tried for perjury if you are lying here, based on
 8        what you've already testified to.  Are there
 9        people who dance at this bar ever?
10                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I have to
11        object to your assertion here that he's
12        committing perjury.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I - - I - - No, wait a
14        minute, Mr. Arena.
15                  MR. ARENA:  I think it's inappropriate.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Arena, I said, "you
17        could be."  Now, you know what?  I'm relega - -
18        I'm not saying you are perjuring yourself. 
19        There's a difference.  And I - - 
20                  MR. ARENA:  Well, I think it's somewhat
21        threatening to the witness.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Hold on, Mister - - You
23        know what?  I will tell you, because - - 
24                  MR. MILLER:  Mr. Chairman.
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  His - - I have - - I

00097
 1        have personally seen transcripts where his
 2        testimony is counter exactly counter right now to
 3        what he was stating earlier, absolutely.  And
 4        you've seen those very transcripts yourself.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  I'm aware of that
 6        transcript, and I know what it says.
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And I'm asking him - - 
 8                  MR. ARENA:  He said they move a little
 9        bit, but he didn't say it was dancing.  
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No, you know what?  And
11        I - - And I actually said that, and - - and he -
12        - Actually, he goes a little bit further than
13        that, and I'm going to ask you, are there - - Do
14        you see people that move in this bar?  Do they
15        even sit at their chair and rock back and forth
16        like I'm doing?
17                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
19                  THE WITNESS:  Not - - 
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Do you ever see people
21        get up and dance a little bit?
22                  THE WITNESS:  Dancing, yes, but - - 
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  At - - At this bar.
24                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah, but when - - when
25        they start dancing, like he go and stop them.

00098
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  Or my sister.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I don't - - I don't
 4        have a problem with you saying that, but when a
 5        question about whether people dance, your
 6        testimony should be, yes, sometimes people move a
 7        little bit, but when we see it, we ask them to
 8        stop.  Your testimony is no, never happened, no,
 9        nobody ever does, and that is contrary to what
10        was stated earlier, and frankly, if that stands
11        as your testimony, that could be served as a
12        means to have the City Attorney's office go after
13        you.  I'm going to tell you that with full
14        assertion, Mr. Arena, and if a judge wants to - -
15                  MR. ARENA:  Actually, he testified very
16        consistent to what he said in the past, and if
17        the City Attorney wants to go after him, I'll be
18        happy to represent him.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Other questions
20        at committee at this time here?  Other questions? 
21        Mr. Arena, did you want to follow up here with
22        Mr. Arias?
23                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Arias, did the
24        individual that you know as Alex now, was he
25        being threatened in any way prior to using the

00099
 1        gun?  Would you explain what happened?  Does
 2        somebody need to translate that question for him? 
 3        Yes, please.
 4                  Was - - Alex, the person who used the
 5        gun, was he being threatened in any way by the
 6        victim?
 7                  (Whereupon interpreter translated and
 8        answered for Mr. Ignacio Arias.)
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, yes.
10                  MR. ARENA:  And how?  Explain what
11        happened.
12                  THE WITNESS:  They started throwing
13        bottles at him.  
14                  MR. ARENA:  And who is "they" if he can
15        tell us who they is?
16                  THE WITNESS:  I don't - - The other
17        one, the one that came over to fight him.
18                  MR. ARENA:  Did you ever see that
19        person before in the bar or around the bar?
20                  THE WITNESS:  No.  No.
21                  MR. ARENA:  What did Alex Luando say
22        before he shot him with the gun?
23                  THE WITNESS:  "Stop it.  Stop throwing
24        bottles."
25                  MR. ARENA:  Did he say anything else?

00100
 1                  THE WITNESS:  "If you keep throwing
 2        bottles, I will shoot you."
 3                  MR. ARENA:  And what happened after
 4        that?  
 5                  (Witness indicates a gun shooting.)
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Did the person keep
 7        throwing the bottles at him?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  No further questions.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I just want to say, was
11        there any follow up that - - that was elicited
12        from committee members?  Okay.  Thank you.  Thank
13        you, Mr. Arias.  Our next witness here, please. 
14        And you can pull the microphone down here to you. 
15        Name and address, please, for our record.
16                  THE WITNESS:  Nancy Maldonado, 2011
17        West Lincoln Avenue, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53215.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Ms.
19        Maldonado, if you could just please just spell
20        your last name?
21                  THE WITNESS:  M-A-L-D-O-N-A-D-O.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Please,
23        proceed. 
24                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  I'm not a person
25        that goes out that much.  These are family

00101
 1        members.  They're cousins to my husband.  I've
 2        had my license, my own bartender license for 13
 3        years.  And I've gone there since they opened the
 4        establishment.  And I can't say that I've never
 5        seen anything that has occurred.  Now that night
 6        I was not there, because I was hospitalized.  I
 7        was - - had to undergo surgery.  However, before
 8        and after that, I've never - - I've never felt
 9        unsafe.  I've never felt uncomfortable.  I've
10        never seen anything inappropriately handled.  I
11        think they do handle their nego - - their
12        establishment well.  They sure do try hard, you
13        know, in any establishment things do happen
14        sometimes, and it's unfortunate.  However, they
15        have also taken the necessary steps going forward
16        to assure that something like this would never
17        happen again.  But, again, like I said, I - -
18        There's no reason why they shouldn't be given the
19        opportunity to - - to prove that.
20                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Questions
21        by committee of this witness?  Mr. Arena,
22        anything?
23                  MR. ARENA:  How often do you go there?
24                  THE WITNESS:  Before it closed, I was
25        going there every Friday and Saturday.

00102
 1                  MR. ARENA:  And tell the committee what
 2        your take is on this dancing that supposedly
 3        takes place.  Do you see people dance and what do
 4        they do?
 5                  THE WITNESS:  When you see people move
 6        around in their seat, it's natural to move with
 7        the music.  I'm sure all of us have done that. 
 8        It's just a natural reaction even when you're
 9        driving in your car.  As far as people standing
10        up and really doing a whole dance, no.  I mean,
11        is it attempted?  Of course, it's natural.  And
12        it's stopped immediately.
13                  MR. ARENA:  How many times would you
14        say that you saw Oliva or Pablo or somebody
15        working stop the dancing?
16                  THE WITNESS:  Not - - It's rarely. 
17        It's not like - - Because they're - - they're - -
18        It's something that's projected to them
19        constantly, there's no dancing allowed, so it's
20        not - - it's an occasional, not all the time.
21                  MR. ARENA:  And what type of security
22        is there now at the door?  What's - - What have
23        you witnessed in regards to security?
24                  THE WITNESS:  I happen to actually like
25        the security company.  They're very proactive in

00103
 1        - - in handling any situation.  Following people
 2        to the bathroom.  Making sure there's not two
 3        going to the bathroom.  Hats are not on. 
 4        Checking pockets and everything, their hat, and
 5        just having everything under control.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Those are all things that
 7        you've witnessed?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  Correct.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  And do they do some sort of
10        a search on you when you enter?
11                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, they do search me,
12        as well.  Just because I'm family doesn't mean
13        that I can get in when I, you know, just walk in. 
14        I am searched by the female, you know, my pockets
15        and my hat and my purse, or if I'm wearing boots,
16        I'm checked inside.
17                  MR. ARENA:  And you said they escort
18        people to the bathroom to make sure there aren't
19        two people in the bathroom.  What are the rules
20        for the bathroom?
21                  THE WITNESS:  There is no more than two
22        individuals allowed in the bathroom at a time,
23        and there's a time limit.  You got two minutes to
24        do your business and get out.
25                  MR. ARENA:  And that's monitored.

00104
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Not so much, but if it's
 2        - - if something's caught, you know, if some - -
 3        or if we're paying attention, hey, go check in
 4        there, whatever.  But, no, it's just kind of eye-
 5        balled, you know, it's not something that happens
 6        anyways.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  And are there signs that
 8        tell people that?
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, yes.  There's big
10        signs on the doors in color that says, in English
11        and Spanish, two people allowed at a time.
12                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  At least Mr. Arias
14        didn't get up and start dancing here.  This is
15        the only positive here.  Please proceed if you
16        still have additional questions.
17                  MR. ARENA:  It's not mine, it's - - But
18        I have - - 
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  That's - -
20        That's fine.
21                  MR. ARENA:  I have no further questions
22        of this witness.
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Ms.
24        Maldonado.
25                  THE WITNESS:  All right.

00105
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Next witness, please. 
 2        You have been sworn.  Your name and your address
 3        for the record, please.
 4                  THE WITNESS:  My name is Dayna Ward. 
 5        D-A-Y-N-A, last name, Ward, W-A-R-D.  I live at
 6        5350 North 57th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 7        53218.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Your
 9        testimony, please.
10                  THE WITNESS:  I would just like to
11        state that I've known the proprietors for four
12        years before they obtained their business.  I
13        know them to be very hardworking people.  They -
14        - They've earned my respect by just consist - -
15        consistently showing me their character.  I know
16        Feo, I'll call him, as a father figure.  He
17        actually resembles my father and that's how I
18        approached him, and actually met Oli - - Oliva
19        first four years ago when she was working very
20        hard to put together funds so that she could
21        start her own livelihood.  So - - 
22                  MR. ARENA:  Could you direct - - Could
23        you direct your testimony - - 
24                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
25                  MR. ARENA:  - - to - - to incident and

00106
 1        how many times you go there.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, the incident.  I was
 3        there.  I - - I was there on the night of the
 4        shooting.  I frequent the - - the establishment,
 5        I would say anywhere between once or twice a
 6        month, more so in the warmer months.  I'm not a
 7        person who goes out so much when it's cold.  I
 8        just would like to say that I was there on the
 9        night of the shooting.  Feo did diffuse the
10        argument.  It went very quickly.  I was sitting
11        on the back wall with my fiance, and I heard an
12        argument ensue, and quickly it was diffused to be
13        outside.  It went by so quickly, so I just - - I
14        - - I wasn't really aware of what happened.  I
15        wasn't outside, and so I didn't view the
16        shooting.  I didn't see the people involved
17        necessarily.  I would not remember them, because
18        I wouldn't, you know, out of all the people that
19        were there I wouldn't be able to go back and say
20        that - - well, I couldn't identify anyone. 
21        However, I would just like to attest that I was -
22        - I do not fear for my safety.  Since the - - the
23        incident, I have returned to the establishment
24        and I - - I do not question my safety.  I feel
25        very comfortable.  I feel that they manage their

00107
 1        establishment well, and I would like to continue
 2        to have their venue as - - as a part of my
 3        community.  I also would like to attest here, I'd
 4        like to apologize to the Ortegas.  I'm very, very
 5        sorry for your son and what happened.  It was a
 6        very unfortunate incident, but it has not been my
 7        experience that the cultures there, Mexican,
 8        Puerto Rican and Dominican, have a problem.  That
 9        is not my experience.  The incident of the night,
10        as - - as has been stated, I - - I believe had
11        more to do with the incident, the altercation
12        between the couple that was there and the attempt
13        to touch this young lady.  That's just my
14        opinion.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  Thank you
16        for your testimony.  If you want to just hold on
17        one second here, yeah, we have - - Questions by
18        committee members?  Mr. Arena?
19                  MR. ARENA:  I have one question.  Are
20        there now video cameras that tape the - - the
21        location?
22                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, there are.  There
23        are - - There are video cameras on several
24        corners of the establishment, as well as outside.
25                  MR. ARENA:  And did those appear prior

00108
 1        to this incident or after?
 2                  THE WITNESS:  I don't recall them
 3        before.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  And are there signs
 5        regarding the video cameras?
 6                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, there are.  They're
 7        - - They're posted all over the place throughout
 8        the establishment.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  And what do those signs
10        say?
11                  THE WITNESS:  They say, smile, you're
12        on camera.
13                  MR. ARENA:  And what else do the signs
14        - - What do other signs say?
15                  THE WITNESS:  There's always, ever
16        since the establishment opened, there's always
17        been clearly posted outside the door, that there
18        are no drugs permitted in, that the police will
19        be called.
20                  MR. ARENA:  And what's your experience
21        with the bathroom, I guess, the rule of two
22        people in the bathroom?
23                  THE WITNESS:  Well, the women's
24        bathroom, there's just one stall.  No one's
25        coming in with me to the restroom.  The men's

00109
 1        room, I don't know.  I think there may be two
 2        stalls inside, and I really don't - - I - - I
 3        really have - - Honestly, I - - I do not frequent
 4        - - I do not choose to frequent places that are
 5        going to be of an element that's going to put me
 6        in a - - in a - - in a dangerous position.  I
 7        don't feel that this is some, that there's any
 8        activity that should be to warrant me avoiding
 9        patronizing this establishment.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Have you ever witnessed- -
11        Have you ever witnessed somebody with drugs - -
12        Have you ever witnessed somebody with drugs
13        there?
14                  THE WITNESS:  No, I have not.
15                  MR. ARENA:  Have you ever witnessed
16        somebody dancing and what was done in response to
17        that?
18                  THE WITNESS:  The - - Okay, first of
19        all, I'd like to say it's a very narrow
20        establishment.  It's not what you consider a
21        dance hall.  If I were to go out and go dancing,
22        this would not be a place.  This would be a place
23        I would go to maybe play billiards, play some
24        dominoes, play cards, but it's not a place 
25        that - - 

00110
 1                  MR. ARENA:  Can you answer the
 2        question?
 3                  THE WITNESS:  - - you dance.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  Can you answer the
 5        question?  Have you seen somebody dance and what
 6        was - - 
 7                  THE WITNESS:  I have seen a couple
 8        dance in a corner, or, yeah, a woman and a man
 9        dancing close together, yeah, from time to time,
10        yeah, but it's not what I consider a dance hall.
11                  MR. ARENA:  And what has been - - what
12        is done by the owners in response to somebody
13        dancing?
14                  THE WITNESS:  I really personally have
15        not seen - - I don't, as I said, I do not
16        frequent the establishment as often as maybe some
17        other people, but I have not really seen, you
18        know, large groups of dancing where it would
19        cause a problem, where it's considered a dance
20        hall that they would have to - - to break it up,
21        so to speak.
22                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thanks.
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.
24                  THE WITNESS:  Anyone else?
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No.  I think that will

00111
 1        do.  Thank you.  Next witness, please.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  My name is Carmen Munoz,
 3        M-U-N-O-Z.  5320 North Lover Lanes Road,
 4        Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53225.  I know Oliva,
 5        because she worked at the restaurant where I work
 6        on the weekends.  I know her for years and her
 7        husband, and they're very good people.  As a
 8        single parent for 21 years, I barely went
 9        anywhere.  I work seven days a week, so my boss
10        tells me, let's go, their opening night in a bar,
11        and I had a previous bad experience in a bar with
12        friends that I went out from work.  So I didn't
13        really feel too comfortable.  But, yeah, I went. 
14        Okay.  And I liked it.  It was a family
15        environment, and honest to God, I like it because
16        he - - I always go by myself and leave by myself. 
17        So he makes sure I get in the car by myself,
18        drives away before he even goes back in there, or
19        has a security guard do it.  So I feel safe.  And
20        when I'm - - And when I'm in there, I feel safe. 
21        And I - - I didn't drink.  I go in there because
22        we just start laughing.  I'm a joker.  He's a
23        joker.  Everybody's a joker.  We just start
24        laughing and having a good time.  And I was very
25        disappointed when they said they were going to

00112
 1        close it down, because after working 11 and a
 2        half hours in a restaurant with my boss, I'm
 3        like, come on, let's go to La Espanola, and he's
 4        like, oh, now you like it.  You know, it's - -
 5        it's just - - it's just a family environment.  
 6                  If somebody dies in the community,
 7        because I work for the Social Security and I know
 8        so many people, when somebody dies in the
 9        community, we all go to his bar, and we all just
10        mourn and, you know, support each other, which I
11        think is very nice, too.  I really, you know, and
12        as for same thing she said, I'm really sorry for
13        her son.  But there is no prejudice.  There's
14        discrimination anywhere you go, and - -       
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I don't want to - - I
16        don't want to - - I don't want to get into
17        speculating.
18                  THE WITNESS:  What I want to get to is
19        that - - What I want to get to is that he has
20        flags, Mexican flags, Puerto Rican flags, all - -
21        all the flags all over.  And I have witnessed
22        where a lot of Mexican people come in, and he is
23        just so friendly with them, and oh, Pepe,
24        whatever, and I've also witnessed this, when
25        people are too drunk, when he's not going to

00113
 1        serve a drink, he says, oh, no, I'm sorry, in a
 2        nice way, no, no more, you got to leave.  Oh,
 3        because I'm Mexican.  Everybody does that.  You
 4        know, oh, because I'm black, oh, because I'm
 5        Puerto Rican, I mean, it's just that no, no,
 6        honey, you have enough to drink.  You have to go
 7        home.  
 8                  I like it.  I feel safe, you know, and
 9        I - - I like it, and I'm telling you, as a
10        person, I don't know, and I hope to God they get
11        it, because that's the only place that I really
12        go to after work after 11 hours and a half of
13        working.  I haven't seen anything bad, and I like
14        them, and they just me feel like home.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you, Ms.
16        Munoz.
17                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by
19        committee first?  Mr. Arena.
20                  MR. ARENA:  What have you witnessed in
21        regards to dancing, what they do with respect to
22        dancing?
23                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, we get all get into
24        our seats, we know, we start, you know, because
25        the music is good, reggae, too, is good, all

00114
 1        kinds of music, too.  I mean, Mexican, we got all
 2        kinds of music, Cuban, whatever.  And, you know,
 3        you're in your seat, you know, I don't drink
 4        much, but I like to dance, you know, so I dance
 5        in my seat, whatever, and we're just joking
 6        around.  I'm, you know, we just have a nice time.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  Do people get up and dance,
 8        though, like on a dance floor?
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Sometimes they want to,
10        but then sometimes, he says, no, you can't do
11        that, you know, in a very sweet way.  They're not
12        - - They're not mean either.  It's just like I've
13        been to other places where they're like, hey, you
14        can't, you know, like, you know.  No, it's
15        really, they're really nice about it, going,
16        like, no, you can't, you know, okay, so you sit
17        down or whatever.  And if I have a problem with
18        somebody trying to, you know - - you know, how
19        sometimes men, you know.   Well, he'll go and
20        say, no, you know, don't do this.  You know, I
21        feel comfortable.  It's a really nice place.  I
22        mean, I'm honest.  That - - I'm straight out. 
23        I'm honest.
24                  MR. ARENA:  So they know that they're
25        not supposed to have dancing and they stop people

00115
 1        from dancing.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  Oh, yeah.  Yeah.
 3                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  So objection, Mr.
 4        Chairman.  He's leading the witness.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  
 6                  MR. ARENA:  That was a summary of her
 7        testimony, which is allowed.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  It's - - We'll just - -
 9        We'll let it go at that, okay.  We'll let it go
10        at that.  Thank you, Miss - - Ms. Munoz, thank
11        you very much.  Okay.  Next witness.  Sir.
12                  THE WITNESS:  It's Bryan Shepard.  B-R-
13        Y-A-N, S-H-E-P-A-R-D.  I live at 1331 West
14        Greenfield Avenue, Milwaukee 53204.  And I work
15        for the security company that currently or - - or
16        had been, anyways, at La Espanola prior to its
17        closure.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Question for
19        you.  Do you speak Spanish?
20                  THE WITNESS:  Only a little bit.  I - -
21        I have a better understanding than my speech is,
22        but - - 
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
24                  THE WITNESS:  I'm able to communicate
25        well enough to speak with patrons coming into the

00116
 1        door, be able to ask for an ID, tell them, you
 2        know, what's going on for the searches for those
 3        that are not regulars, you know, because we do a
 4        person search, you know, men search men, et
 5        cetera.
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And that's what I just
 7        wanted to get at.  If there's a loss in
 8        translation where if you say, I am checking, do
 9        you have weapons, things along those lines.  Are
10        you - - you able to communicate that?
11                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  All right.
13                  THE WITNESS:  In fact, we've - - we've
14        got several Spanish speaking officers with the
15        company who are much more fluent than myself, who
16        also regularly work La Espanola, and a lot of
17        other - - other Spanish accounts.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  Thank you. 
19        Questions by committee?  Mr. Arena?
20                  MR. ARENA:  How often are you at La
21        Espanola?  How many times have you been there?
22                  THE WITNESS:  Personally, I've worked
23        the - - I've worked at that bar 12 to 15 times. 
24        I also supervise the people who do work that
25        account under me while I'm off doing other

00117
 1        assignments.
 2                  MR. ARENA:  And are you licensed to
 3        carry a weapon yourself?
 4                  THE WITNESS:  I am.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  And do you have somebody
 6        working at La Espanola that's licensed to have a
 7        weapon?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  And why is it that your
10        company has somebody there that has a weapon?
11                  THE WITNESS:  Well, we found that in
12        the community, the south side of Milwaukee in
13        general, but, you know, other communities across
14        Milwaukee and everywhere pretty much, that the
15        neighborhood has - - It is such a - - an
16        environment where although most of the people are
17        good upstanding citizens, most of the people are
18        hardworking and do things the honest way, there
19        will always be the small percentage that don't
20        want to follow that normal.  They want to take
21        advantage.  They want to be hostile.  They want
22        to be aggressive.  And our philosophy as security
23        is that we want to, you know, be prepared for
24        that situation.  Personally, I - - You know, I've
25        been working for this company almost two years. 

00118
 1        I've been working security over five years.  And
 2        I've never had to draw my weapon once.  But we 
 3        - - we don't exclude that possibility, and it's
 4        for the safety of our client and for their
 5        patrons and for the neighborhoods.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Do you find the clientele
 7        at La Espanola are compliant to your
 8        instructions?
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Almost without exception. 
10        I mean, there are a few people who, you know,
11        they aren't the type that like to be touched.  So
12        they have exception to being searched.  We have,
13        you know, we have some people that, you know,
14        get, you know, they try to come in already having
15        been too drunk and we have to refuse them
16        service.  And, you know, of course, they want to
17        take it out on security.  But I can say almost
18        without exception all of the regulars and most of
19        the new patrons, especially those who also go to
20        other bars where my company works as security,
21        under - - they understand the drill.  We treat
22        them with respect.  They treat us with respect. 
23        And everything goes very smoothly.
24                  MR. ARENA:  And when you work, you wear
25        a uniform like you're wearing today?

00119
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Exactly like I'm wearing,
 2        except with less - - less easily destroyable
 3        pants and shoes.
 4                  MR. ARENA:  And I notice that you have
 5        a badge?            
 6                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.  A metal badge.
 7                  MR. ARENA:  And you described it as
 8        very similar to a police uniform.  Right?
 9                  THE WITNESS:  It is a police style
10        uniform.  We do not try to represent the
11        Milwaukee Police Department or any other law
12        enforcement agency.  However, the presence in
13        uniform does give a visual reminder to the
14        patrons that, you know, we are security and, you
15        know, we are here for the public protection of
16        anybody who is in and around the facility.
17                  MR. ARENA:  Are you aware of any
18        fighting or incidents since your company has been
19        present doing security at La Espanola?
20                  THE WITNESS:  I haven't witnessed any
21        personally during the times that I was working
22        the assignment, and I haven't received any
23        official reports from my officers about any
24        further incidents.  Generally, if two people
25        decide that they want to, you know, argue or get,

00120
 1        you know, a little hot-headed, you know, we step
 2        in.  We intervene.  We either resolve the
 3        situation, if necessary, one or more of the
 4        patrons involved has to leave the facility.  But
 5        unless there's actually physical violence,
 6        punches thrown, blood spilled or anything like
 7        that, we don't - - we consider it a normal course
 8        of business.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  And in your knowledge,
10        there hasn't been any such incident at La
11        Espanola.
12                  THE WITNESS:  No, sir.
13                  MR. ARENA:  And what is your
14        understanding in regards to the rules there about
15        dancing?
16                  THE WITNESS:  My understanding is that
17        dancing is not encouraged, and there are no - -
18        there is no live DJs.  There are no lights
19        flashing around anywhere.  There is no dance
20        floor to speak of.  Like previous witnesses have
21        testified, is that, you know, people will move in
22        their seats.  They might, you know, kind of do a
23        little jig on the way to the bathroom or
24        something like that.  But, I mean, there's - -
25        The closest thing to a real, I guess, dancing

00121
 1        problem is maybe if a man and woman come from
 2        opposite sides of the bar, they'll hug each other
 3        and just kind of move and sway to the music, and
 4        that's usually, you know, by the time we
 5        intervene, just like say, hey guys, why don't you
 6        go - - go to the bar, you got a drink that's
 7        getting warm or something like that.  You know,
 8        resolve the situation without, you know, being
 9        rude or impolite to the customers.  They
10        appreciate that, and it builds up greater respect
11        between not only the bar and its patrons, but
12        also, between security and its patrons.
13                  MR. ARENA:  Are you instructed by the
14        owner to tell people to not dance if they start
15        to dance?
16                  THE WITNESS:  The - - The owner of the
17        establishment and employees were on a very, very
18        close basis for what the rules are, and he's
19        given us full authority to enforce them,
20        including the one about the dancing.  That is
21        included.
22                  MR. ARENA:  And what are the rules in
23        regards to the restrooms and how do you enforce
24        that?
25                  THE WITNESS:  The restroom, there - -

00122
 1        there are signs about 11x17 on posterboard that
 2        state that there are only two people allowed in
 3        each restroom.  A previous witness testified to
 4        the layout of the women's room.  I can - - I'll -
 5        - I can verify that the men's room has one stall
 6        and one facility mounted on the wall.  And there
 7        are two - - two people, it states very clearly,
 8        there are no drugs allowed inside the bar or
 9        inside the bathrooms, police will be called.
10                  MR. ARENA:  And people are compliant
11        with what those signs say?  They keep it two
12        people in the bathroom?
13                  THE WITNESS:  There are rare
14        exceptions.  Most notably when - - if somebody
15        goes into the restroom, not knowing there are
16        already two people in there, but it's an easily
17        mitigated situation.  There's never been any
18        serious problems regarding the number of people
19        in the bathrooms.
20                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The only question that
22        I have as a follow-up is does the jig speed up if
23        people have to go to the bathroom really bad?
24                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, but I - - I
25        don't really care to demonstrate that.

00123
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I - - I won't ask. 
 2        Thank you.  Thank you for your testimony.  Okay. 
 3        We have, I think, two more witnesses here?  Go
 4        ahead, ma'am.  We'll take you next.  Thank you.
 5                  THE WITNESS:  My name is Debra Graber. 
 6        I live at 1574A South Union Street.  I am
 7        director of operations of Wisconsin Security
 8        Solution.  I have worked the establishment many
 9        times.  And I am one of the female guards.  The
10        guys do not and the boss will not let the male
11        guards search any female customer.  That is where
12        I come in.  Any - - Any time it is called for a
13        guard to be there, there is always a female guard
14        put there with them.  They aren't there alone. 
15        It's they - - If a female come in, they will
16        check the ID with the flashlight, they'll check
17        the purse, I do a physical pat down of the body,
18        and I've got many officers, and I normally put
19        many bilingual officers at that account.  So
20        there is no - - no language barrier.  That's one
21        thing.  And I do the schedule.  So I know which
22        bars - - But as far as a physical pat down or a
23        bilingual barrier, there is none.  And as far as
24        dancing, no.  If - - I mean, I've done many times
25        myself standing at the door.  What can I say?  I

00124
 1        love to dance.  And they look at me, I'm like,
 2        okay.  Fine.  You know, it's - - But, no.  As far
 3        as them, I've - - There hasn't been trouble.  I
 4        very much enjoy working there.  I really do. 
 5        It's not far from my house.  I live less than a
 6        mile from the establishment.  And we have had no
 7        problem.  And I wear arms a lot.  I am carried 
 8        - - I have permits to carry a firearm.  I wear
 9        it.  I don't know why.  I've never needed to draw
10        it when I was there.  Never had a problem.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, ma'am. 
12        Questions by committee members at this time.  Mr.
13        Arena, any follow-up?
14                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman.  Are there
15        any other bars where your company provides
16        security that they will use an armed person to do
17        security?
18                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.  We have several
19        other accounts.
20                  MR. ARENA:  And are - - are they on the
21        south side or?
22                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.  It's not just the
23        south side.  There's north side, too.  But when
24        it's - - we find there's more females than males
25        going in, we put a female with a male guard. 

00125
 1        It's always usually two people.
 2                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, ma'am, for
 4        your testimony.  Next witness, please.
 5                  THE WITNESS:  Frank Sadowski, 5191
 6        Sunnyslope Road, New Berlin.  
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sir, you - - you have
 8        been previously sworn, as well, too.
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
11                  THE WITNESS:  I had my hand up.  I'm
12        the owner of the building.  I do apologize to Mr.
13        Ortega that such an incident happened at my
14        building, and I sympathize with him, and it's
15        unfortunate that happened.  
16                  I've been involved with the owner, and
17        also, Mr. Donovan, from day one on developing
18        their business plan and making sure that they run
19        a clean, safe environment.  I'm not an absentee
20        landlord.  I'm there quite often.  I do check up
21        on them.  I do surprise them.  And I've never
22        found anything to be unsatisfactory.  They spent
23        the money on cameras.  They have allowed me any
24        kind of access I would like to see these cameras. 
25        And I think it's a great tool to keep the bar

00126
 1        safe.  
 2                  The most important thing that I can
 3        bring out that nobody else has talked about is my
 4        zero tolerance policy in the lease.  My lease is
 5        very detailed that I have no tolerance for any
 6        kind of drug activity or anything that breaks any
 7        kind of laws.  Their lease can be terminated
 8        immediately.  I won't tolerate it, and I don't 
 9        - - and they run a very clean, safe place.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay, Mr. Sadowski,
11        thank you much.  Questions by committee members? 
12        Mr. Arena, I hesitate to ask.
13                  MR. ARENA:  How often do you visit the
14        establishment?
15                  THE WITNESS:  I'd say I'm there
16        probably every other week.
17                  MR. ARENA:  And do you go at night when
18        they'd be open?
19                  THE WITNESS:  I go all different times.
20                  MR. ARENA:  So you've been there at
21        night?
22                  THE WITNESS:  Yes.
23                  MR. ARENA:  Are you satisfied with the
24        security that they have?
25                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, I am.  And I feel

00127
 1        I'm safe there.  I feel everybody is welcome
 2        there, as long as you're a good person, you're
 3        welcome.  It's - - It's not a problem.  Doesn't
 4        matter what race you are, you're welcome there.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  Have you had any complaints
 6        from any of the tenants that are upstairs about
 7        the way La Espanola is operated?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  They're actually regulars
 9        there, so it's not really an issue.  
10                  MR. ARENA:  And are you aware of any
11        other incidents of - - of violence or anything
12        like that similar to this June 1st, 2008 incident
13        occurring at La Espanola?
14                  THE WITNESS:  No, I haven't.  But I
15        think the lessons I've learned from this is if
16        the police report isn't correct, we're going to
17        get it corrected, and also, we're going to have a
18        very accurate bouncer log that if he's
19        fortunately enough to get his license, he's going
20        to have a log every day of who is there and their
21        phone number, and it's - - it's going to be also
22        written into his lease, a couple more rules for
23        him to follow.
24                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, sir.  Next

00128
 1        witness, please?
 2                  THE WITNESS:  My name is Antonio
 3        Oquendo.  I'm from Wisconsin Security Solutions.
 4                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'm sorry.  You were
 5        muted a little bit to your last - - I got
 6        Antonio.
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Oquendo.  O-Q-U-E-N-D-O.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Address, 1613 South 10th
10        Street.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Please
12        proceed.
13                  THE WITNESS:  And I am one of the
14        workers from the facility where Mister - - Feo, I
15        know him by Feo, works, and I don't know what - -
16        how this happened, you know, it's really a good
17        place.  I worked there.  There's - - I hardly
18        have anything to do with the clients, except for
19        checking IDs and making sure no weapons get in
20        there, and I never - - It's rarely the time that,
21        you know, I get a - - from a drunk or something
22        coming into the facility.  Other than that, it's
23        a good place.  I don't know why this is going on. 
24        It's - - It's a shame that we're going through
25        this.

00129
 1                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr.
 2        Oquendo, for your brevity here.  One moment, a
 3        follow-up question, Alderman Zielinski?
 4                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Okay.  So when
 5        people come into the bar, do you - - do you check
 6        them for weapons?
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, we do.
 8                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  How do you check
 9        them for weapons?
10                  THE WITNESS:  Check, and drugs.  We
11        check for weapons, drugs.
12                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  No.  How?  Not
13        what.  How?
14                  THE WITNESS:  All I can say is we pat
15        them down.
16                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  You pat them down. 
17        Okay.  So how do - - How do guns or drugs get
18        into the bar?
19                  THE WITNESS:  They haven't - - They
20        haven't passed me.  I don't know what you're
21        trying to say by that.
22                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Okay.  Okay, thank
23        you.
24                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by
25        committee?  Mr. Arena.

00130
 1                  MR. ARENA:  Sir, have you ever found a
 2        gun on a patron trying to enter?
 3                  THE WITNESS:  Because when this
 4        incident happened, I wasn't there.  I wasn't
 5        there at the time, so.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Have you ever found
 7        a patron trying to enter with a gun?
 8                  THE WITNESS:  Never.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  Have you ever found a
10        patron trying to enter with - - 
11                  THE WITNESS:  Knives and stuff like
12        that, yeah.
13                  MR. ARENA:  Have you ever found a
14        patron trying to enter with drugs?
15                  THE WITNESS:  Not that I'm aware of.  I
16        - - I do pretty good searches, and, no, I
17        haven't. 
18                  MR. ARENA:  How are you - - Are you
19        trained to do pat down searches?
20                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.  All of us are.
21                  MR. ARENA:  And describe your training. 
22        Who does the training?  Where does it occur?
23                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  Training is done
24        by a boss, and we got a special facility office
25        where we all get together and we do every - -

00131
 1        twice a week.
 2                  MR. ARENA:  So you're trained twice - -
 3        You do training twice a week.
 4                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, we do.
 5                  MR. ARENA:  And that covers pat down
 6        searches. 
 7                  THE WITNESS:  Exactly, yes, sir.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  And do you discuss
 9        different things that have happened to people, so
10        that they're - - you're aware of the tricks that
11        people are using to get by?
12                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.
13                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.
14                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, sir.  Are
15        there any other witnesses?  One more.  Sir, I
16        just - - Just so you're aware.  We don't allow
17        comebacks, okay.  Because we're hours behind
18        already.  Because if I let you, I'll have five
19        more in line after you, so.  Yes, sir.  Go ahead. 
20        You've been sworn in.  Your name and your address
21        for our record, please.
22                  THE WITNESS:  Jerry Colon.  Jerry
23        Colon.  3329 North Holton Street, Milwaukee,
24        Wisconsin 53212.
25                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  C-O-L-O-N?

00132
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Please proceed.
 3                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.  I moved down to
 4        Milwaukee now.  At the beginning I came down for
 5        vacation from Florida, okay, and my cousin is a
 6        restaurant owner here, and one thing my daddy
 7        always said, nobody is to be out in a nightclub
 8        where this could take two, three o'clock in the
 9        morning, okay.  You know, that's where trouble is
10        at or what have you.  I come down from Florida on
11        vacation, and being an ex-law enforcement
12        officer, okay, I still didn't want to go.  My
13        cousin, hey, come on let's go over here, and
14        then, you're going to like it.  I'm like, no, I
15        don't do bars.  I have four children, and, ma'am,
16        I do apologize, you know, for your hurt or
17        whatever.  I had nothing to do with it.  I don't
18        think they do.  Like everybody's saying, isolated
19        incident, but I do sympathize that your brother
20        got hurt.  Because if he was one of my kids, I
21        would really be hurt, too, okay.  After going
22        with my cousin and saw the establishment, you
23        know, birds-eye view and looked at it and
24        everything, I'm like, well, okay, you know, this
25        is someplace where maybe I can frequent.  My - -

00133
 1        My wife now is from Milwaukee, and she still
 2        doesn't go to bars or do nothing like that, you
 3        know.  But when I say, hey, come over here, one
 4        night, let's go see.  So you can see for yourself
 5        what it's like and everything, she felt
 6        comfortable.  Okay, and so, as did I, you know,
 7        because we already know, like I said earlier, my
 8        daddy said don't go where you don't need to be at
 9        two or three o'clock in the morning.  And that
10        being said and the committee, thank you for
11        taking time, you know, today to play to this, so
12        we can talk to you guys and let you really know
13        what we feel.  There's a lot of people here,
14        okay, that, you know, it could have been a lot
15        more, sorry about that, that can come and say,
16        hey, listen this is a good place, you know, don't
17        shut it down or what have you.
18                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Colon, we know
19        that, and I'm trying to move you along here.
20                  THE WITNESS:  Okay.
21                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'm not trying to kick
22        you out.  I'm - - 
23                  THE WITNESS:  I feel that it is an
24        establishment that should remain open.  It is a
25        safe establishment.  I feel that, please, to the

00134
 1        committee, don't shut them down.  You got two
 2        people with life savings and a dream.  And not
 3        only that I don't want their dream shut down,
 4        but, you know, a message you're going to send to
 5        a lot of other people who want to maybe start a
 6        business in Milwaukee, this is not the place to
 7        do business any little incident and the alderman
 8        is going to shut down.  Again, guys, you know,
 9        just take into consideration a isolated incident,
10        two good people, just trying to start a business
11        and keep it going, and that's about it, you know. 
12        So, again, I - - I vote to keep it open.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  Thank you, Mr.
14        Colon.  Hold on one moment here if you could just
15        at the microphone.  Are there any questions
16        committee members have of this witness?  Mr.
17        Arena?
18                  MR. ARENA:  No.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  All right. 
20        Any other witnesses in favor?  Okay.  Mr. Arena,
21        any - - If you want, any testimony you want to
22        provide here by the - - by the applicants or any
23        closing then, so if you want to just kind of
24        however you want to deal with that.
25                  MR. ARENA:  The co-applicant has not

00135
 1        been heard from, Oliva.  If she could tell us.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Please, please.  If I
 3        could, I would just ask that we at least have her
 4        on the microphone.  At least that way we have - -
 5        we have a tape of it, as well, too.  And then - -
 6        And then the translator can do the translation,
 7        also, into the microphone.
 8                  THE APPLICANT:  Yes, what - - what
 9        happened at the June 1st was very hurtful for me,
10        too.  Because I'm a mom, and I know what they - -
11        they felt and all the family looked at the person
12        who got shot.  I know that - - that this is very
13        hard for them, because even for me that I'm not
14        the mom.
15                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mister - - Mr. Arena,
16        and if you could translate, no one is happy about
17        the situation that occurred.  We've had just
18        about every witness apologize to the family who
19        is present here.  I'm not going to allow any more
20        of it.  It's not a forum for us, you know, if she
21        wants to get together with them afterwards, she
22        can take them out to lunch.  I don't mean to say
23        that by being facetious.  Direct testimony as to
24        things she, they have done, what occurred that
25        night.  But I don't want to get into a forum of

00136
 1        we came to this country ten years ago and made
 2        life savings.  I want to get to the meat.
 3                  MR. ARENA:  Well, as you can guess, I
 4        haven't told her - - Okay.
 5                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.  If she could, at
 6        least - - If she's going to provide testimony,
 7        brevity to what occurred and/or what has changed,
 8        what - - what takes place at the bar.
 9                  THE APPLICANT:  But at first, what
10        happened the first, I heard the shotgun and I
11        realized that something happened.  I tried to
12        call the police, but I don't speak English, so I
13        - - I asked my son to do it.  I wanted the police
14        to come over quickly, because what I can see from
15        the inside out, I wanted them to come over
16        quickly.  And I don't want to repeating what
17        everybody else has said - - has said, and I was
18        trying to avoid what happened - - I was trying to
19        stop whatever was happen - - from happening. 
20                  This has never happened to us, this
21        kind of problem, and we have learned a lot from
22        it.  That's why we have cameras, and now we have
23        signs, and we inform our clients what we like. 
24        And my husband and I were always, you know, on
25        top of them, say, hey, you cannot do this.  And

00137
 1        we try to control the - - the situation if it
 2        happens, if ever occurred.  That's it.
 3                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Questions
 4        by committee?  Mr. Arena?
 5                  MR. ARENA:  Ms. Arias, do you - - do
 6        you consume alcohol or drink yourself?
 7                  THE APPLICANT:  No.  No, never.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  And do you feel that you've
 9        taken a lot of steps to correct this from
10        happening again?
11                  THE APPLICANT:  Yes.  Yes.
12                  MR. ARENA:  And how often are you
13        present during operations?
14                  TRANSLATOR:  Can you repeat the
15        question?
16                  MR. ARENA:  How often are you present
17        during operations when the place is open?
18                  THE APPLICANT:  My husband opened
19        around 11 in the morning, and two hours after
20        that, that's when I work - - I come over.  And
21        since six, and seven, I'm there.
22                  MR. ARENA:  And is she there every day?
23                  THE APPLICANT:  Yes.
24                  MR. ARENA:  What are the rules in
25        regards to dancing?

00138
 1                  THE APPLICANT:  We always tell the
 2        people that want to dance, that we don't dance
 3        here.  We try to tell them very nicely, and well,
 4        nothing.  And they're staying there because they
 5        like the place.
 6                  MR. ARENA:  Thank you.
 7                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Mr. Arena,
 8        if you'd like at this time, it would be
 9        appropriate to provide your closing.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Thank you.  I will try to
11        be as brief as possible, but I think that there's
12        a - - a couple of things I'd like to point out,
13        first off.  I have read the entire police
14        incident report that would be released to me, and
15        I would tell you that the police report has
16        people saying all sorts of different inconsistent
17        things all over the place, and I'll leave it at
18        that.
19                  What I - - I do believe, though, is
20        that this has become somewhat of a large issue
21        here before this committee, because, in fact, it
22        is the only thing on their record.  In all of the
23        months of operation that this place has been in
24        business this one incident occurred.  It occurred
25        from somebody who left and obtained the weapon. 

00139
 1        There is never any evidence or any indication in
 2        the police report that that weapon was inside the
 3        bar that night.  The evidence and the testimony
 4        is that these guys were in an argument and one
 5        guy is throwing bottles at him and he's told,
 6        stop throwing bottles at me or I'm going to shoot
 7        you.  I have a gun.  I believe that that's what
 8        happened, and this guy, for whatever reason, kept
 9        throwing bottles at him.  And eventually, he took
10        out the gun and was shot.  It's not meant to
11        excuse it.  It's not meant to say that my clients
12        desired to have it happen, but I think that it's
13        kind of a bizarre incident, and it's an isolated
14        incident.  And I think what you have to focus on
15        is the steps that they have taken to ensure that
16        this incident or a similar incident will not
17        happen again.  
18                  Now, Alderman Donovan, himself has gone
19        on record and preached operation impact and
20        cameras are important.  They went out and they
21        purchased the cameras.  They had a security
22        company, a security expert come in and give them
23        coverage.  Entire place is on camera, and all
24        their customers know about that now.  They have
25        put up adequate signs.  They have brought in a

00140
 1        private security company at an expense, and that
 2        security company, I believe, has regular
 3        training, and I believe that they do an excellent
 4        job, and they keep people in the right frame of
 5        mind, keep them happy, and keep them behaving
 6        well.  
 7                  You stop these incidents from happening
 8        by being proactive and being good with your
 9        customers and making sure that an argument or a
10        disagreement doesn't start in the first place.  I
11        think there's a visual presence of that now. 
12        These two individuals operate this business with
13        their heart and soul.  They're there.  When
14        they're open, they're there.  They don't drink. 
15        They're on top of what's going on.  They don't
16        let people dance.  I think the dancing thing is
17        really a red-herring issue.  And like if you walk
18        in any bar in the City of Milwaukee that doesn't
19        have a dance license, you're going to maybe see
20        somebody that's moving around or dancing a little
21        bit.  There's not an organized dance or a DJ
22        here.  They're not outright breaking the rules on
23        - - on the dance hall.  That became a red-herring
24        issue because Ignacio, the - - is not quite able
25        to convey what he's saying in English very well.

00141
 1        I mean, this is a guy that immigrated from the
 2        Dominican Republic and learned how to speak
 3        English on the streets of New York.  I mean, he
 4        worked and lived in Queens until he moved back
 5        here.  
 6                  You have to address what it is.  And,
 7        you know, we have locations in the City of
 8        Milwaukee where we have shootings, and they've
 9        maintained and kept a license.  And I think it's
10        fair to allow these people to keep this license 
11        in looking at the body of history beyond what
12        happened on June 1st, 2008.  They operated the
13        entire month of June without an incident, July
14        without an incident, August without incident on
15        23rd and Forest Home.  That is not exactly the
16        greatest neighborhood in the world, despite what
17        Alderman Donovan would want to tell you. 
18        Alderman Donovan in his own district has
19        locations where somebody was shot, where a victim
20        of a homicide, were actually shot in the
21        threshold of the doorway of the bar, and that
22        location still has a license.
23                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Mr. Chair.
24                  MR. ARENA:  I bring that up only
25        because Mr. Donovan has brought these types of

00142
 1        things up.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Well, let's not - -
 3        Let's not - - 
 4                  MR. ARENA:  I bring it up to say to you
 5        that it is important for the issue of consistent
 6        treatment of a location.  Let's be equal and fair
 7        to everybody.  Let's give everybody their fair
 8        chance.  This is not a Saturday night cowboy
 9        joint where it's shoot 'em up every Saturday
10        night and there's drugs found every other week
11        and the cops are constantly called there.  The
12        cops are - - are never there.  It was this one
13        isolated incident.  I don't think that it would
14        be progressive discipline to say you should move
15        automatically to revocation.  I think the facts
16        have been much more brought out and a lot more
17        has been learned about the facts here today.  
18                  I appreciate the fact that the
19        committee has put in the time and the effort on
20        this matter.  And I'm imploring the committee and
21        asking the committee to - - to be equal and fair
22        in handing out its judgment here.  And I just
23        want to add that they have suffered a closure,
24        because the license was not renewed by the
25        committee and eventually by Council.  We did go

00143
 1        to court.  We had a brief reprieve of that for a
 2        week.  But, you know, the judge, in his sound
 3        discretion, decided that it would be best to
 4        determine, you know, what the committee's
 5        pleasure would be for a punishment, that there
 6        would be a possibility that some punishment would
 7        be available.  But, you know, that happened, I
 8        believe, on January 14th.  I'm not sure on the
 9        date on that.  But it's been approximately 30
10        days they've been closed.  
11                  I can tell you that this incident,
12        they've really learned a valuable lesson from it. 
13        I can tell you, as you are aware, that I don't
14        sit here voluntarily, that I am compensated, and
15        I have been compensated to the extent that I've
16        asked and it has cost them dearly in finances,
17        which quite frankly, could be better served to be
18        used - - They're putting two kids through college
19        right now.  They have a home.  They own the home. 
20        They're current on their mortgage payments.  So
21        they're hardworking people.  They're not here to
22        get a license and - - and just make a bunch of
23        money and - - and take off back to the Dominican
24        Republic here.  They're here creating a life for
25        themselves, and they're working hard, and they

00144
 1        want every chance, every benefit, and to be
 2        treated fairly, as everybody else is, and I
 3        think, if you look at the isolation of this
 4        incident, it really would be unfair and
 5        inappropriate to just not renew this license
 6        completely.  Suspension may be in order.  I would
 7        tell you that, you know, 30 days is, in taking
 8        into consideration what they've been closed
 9        already, you know, ten more days possibly would
10        maybe be appropriate, but to recommend a non-
11        renewal of this license, I think, is a shame.  
12                  I mean, they're here with the full
13        approval of their landlord.  And I don't think
14        that many people can say that.  And I have spent
15        time with him and talked to him, and he's a very
16        reasonable person.  He's on top of what's going
17        on there, and he takes his responsibility as a
18        property owner very - - owner very seriously. 
19        And if a tenant was acting up, he certainly would
20        get them out of there and evict them immediately. 
21        And he feels confident in their ability.  
22                  So with that, I will leave it to this
23        body's hands, and I - - I thank you for your time
24        and your patience with our translator.  Our
25        translator, you know, was unable to spend time

00145
 1        with us days before this to prepare for this
 2        because of expense.  He's here and he tried to do
 3        the best that he could.  And it is under
 4        difficult circumstances, because a lot of people
 5        start to talk at one time, and he has to
 6        determine how best to translate.  So he's just
 7        trying to serve his function as best he can.
 8                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We know.  Thank you,
 9        Mr. Arena.
10                  MR. ARENA:  Thank you.
11                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderwoman Coggs, did
12        you have anything that you needed to say?  Okay. 
13        With that, we're in committee.  I mean, is there
14        something that's going to be self-determining.  I
15        don't - - All right.  We're in committee.
16                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Mr. Chair.
17                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Kovac.
18                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  So I think it's been
19        to the committee's advantage to take a fresh look
20        at this.  Also, because it's been nice to have a
21        professional translation.  And to have the full
22        police report for us to review.  So I - - I think
23        it was probably a good decision on the judge's
24        part to let us review this again and to take this
25        extra time.  Last time it went it was a three to

00146
 1        two vote, and there were concerns, I think, on
 2        the two dissenting votes about what you raised
 3        about whether, you know, one incident, what's the
 4        precedent we're setting.  I don't know if it was
 5        disagreement in the committee, because I think
 6        it's not how many incidents, it's what kind of
 7        incident and how did you respond and react and
 8        handle it.  And then, there were other concerns
 9        from the committee about translation, but those
10        obviously no longer exist.
11                  So clearly, it now looks, it's hard to
12        know exactly what happened that night, but it
13        looks like probably your employee probably didn't
14        pull the trigger.  But there's no question that
15        he left with the triggerman.  There's some
16        dispute in his - - in the police report whether
17        he did so voluntarily or not.  There's no
18        question that either he or you is not telling the
19        truth about the history of his employment, and
20        that I don't like to hear.  And to me, finding
21        out that this guy wasn't necessarily the
22        triggerman, but finding out the broader details
23        of this case, and more important, the broader
24        details of the lack of cooperation and lack of
25        consistency in statements from employees and

00147
 1        relatives, of owners and owners of the bar to
 2        police, is very concerning.  I'm very glad you
 3        have cameras.  I'm very glad you have security. 
 4        I'm very glad you're patting people down.  And
 5        that is what this community asks for.  
 6                  But I think it goes without saying,
 7        that this committee also asks for cooperation
 8        with the police when somebody gets shot in your
 9        bar.  And that hasn't happened.  And that to me,
10        makes the case even stronger in my own mind that
11        I am not comfortable with a bar like this, where
12        if an incident like this happens, there's
13        somebody out there who almost shot somebody who
14        is not being, because of the lack of cooperation
15        of the employees and owners and relatives of
16        owners of this bar, is not being brought to
17        justice.  And that to me is enough to move for
18        non-renewal.
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Okay.
20                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Based on the police
21        report and neighborhood testimony.
22                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The motion by Alderman
23        Kovac is to recommend non-renewal of the license,
24        based on items contained within the police
25        report, as well as - - as testimony, neighborhood

00148
 1        testimony.  Is there additional discussion on the
 2        motion?  No discussion on the motion.  I will ask
 3        for a roll call vote on that, please.
 4                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Hamilton?
 5                  ALDERMAN HAMILTON:  No.
 6                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Kovac?
 7                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Aye.
 8                  CITY CLERK:  Alderwoman Coggs?
 9                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  No.
10                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Zielinski?
11                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Aye.
12                  CITY CLERK:  Mr. Chair.
13                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No.  The motion will
14        fail on a two-three vote.  We're still in
15        committee.
16                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Mr. Chairman.
17                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Alderman Zielinski?
18                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Basically I concur
19        with the observations shared with us by Alderman
20        Kovac.  Given the fact that his motion failed, I
21        would move suspension of - - with a 60 day - - I
22        would move for a 60 day suspension.
23                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Motion by Alderman
24        Zielinski is to recommend approval of the renewal
25        of the - - the license with the issuance of a 60

00149
 1        day suspension, based upon the police report and
 2        - - and additional neighborhood testimony.  Any
 3        discussion on that motion by committee members?  
 4                  MR. ARENA:  Mr. Chairman, I know it's
 5        out of order for me to speak, but - - 
 6                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  It is out of order for
 7        you to speak, Mr. Arena.
 8                  MR. ARENA:  But it might be one
 9        important thing.
10                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  You're out of
11        order.
12                  MR. ARENA:  I'm asking for the
13        indulgence of the Chair, if I could.
14                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I may cut you off, but
15        go ahead.
16                  MR. ARENA:  I'm just asking if there'd
17        be kind of a credit for time served, since he has
18        been - - 
19                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And that's something 
20        - - that's something that each committee member
21        can factor in.  And I think we - - we did hear
22        that, as part of your - - your closing statement
23        here, Mr. Arena.  All right.  Madame Clerk, if we
24        can call the roll on a renewal with a 60 day
25        suspension.              

00150
 1                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Hamilton?
 2                  ALDERMAN HAMILTON:  Aye.
 3                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Kovac?
 4                  ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Aye.
 5                  CITY CLERK:  Alderwoman Coggs?
 6                  ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  No.
 7                  CITY CLERK:  Alderman Zielinski?
 8                  ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  Aye.
 9                  CITY CLERK:  Mr. Chair.
10                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No.  The motion will
11        carry on a three to two vote.  Mr. Miller?
12                  MR. MILLER:  I'm going to give a
13        statement about findings of fact.  Sir, could you
14        interpret or, Mr. Arena, will you accept 
15        service - - 
16                  MR. ARENA:  I'll accept service.
17                  MR. MILLER:  - - of findings of fact? 
18        Okay.  Then we will send a report containing the
19        committee's findings of fact to Attorney Arena on
20        behalf of the licensee.
21                  MR. ARENA:  And can you inform us as to
22        when the next Council meeting is?
23                  MR. MILLER:  Okay.  Well, the next
24        Common Council - - It will be considered by the
25        Common Council on March 3rd.  Your objections

00151
 1        will need to be filed by February 26.
 2                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  As you know, Mr. Arena,
 3        you will be provided five minutes and the ability
 4        to speak before, if you do, indeed, choose to
 5        provide a written response to the - - to the
 6        committee's report.  You will be given that
 7        opportunity and the entire matter then - - would
 8        then be weighed by the entire Common Council.
 9                  MR. ARENA:  As a matter of
10        housekeeping, I do not know if my submission was
11        made part of the record.
12                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Your - - The photo
13        documents?  Yes, it was.
14                  MR. ARENA:  Okay.  Thank you.  We
15        appreciate your time.
16                  CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you all.
17                          * * * * *

00152
 1    
 2   
 3   STATE OF WISCONSIN )
 4                     )
 5   MILWAUKEE COUNTY  )
 6    
 7                 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 
 8       Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 
 9       Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 
10       proceedings is a full and complete transcript of the 
11       La Espanola taken in the foregoing proceedings.
12    
13   
14   
15   
16   
17                                                                     
                                       JEAN M. BARINA 
18                                     Court Reporter
     
19   
     
20   
      
21   Dated this       day of March, 2009.          
     
22