00001
 1                       CITY OF MILWAUKEE
 2                   LICENSES COMMITTEE HEARING 
 3                                                            
 4        In the Matter of:
 5        EMANTHA PEAVEY
          Groovin Inn
 6        333 East Hadley Street
     
 7                                                           
     
 8   
                       COMMITTEE MEMBERS
 9   
                  ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR. - Chairman
10              ALD. MILELE A. COGGS - Vice Chairman
                       ALD. ASHANTI HAMILTON
11                   ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI
                           ALD. NIK KOVAC
12   
         
13               POLICE DEPARTMENT by CAPTAIN SMITH            
             CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE by ADAM B. STEPHENS
14                       and BRUCE SCHRIMPF 
15   
16                 Proceedings had and testimony given in the 
17       above-entitled matter before the LICENSES COMMITTEE OF 
18       THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE on December 5th, 2008, before 
19       Terese M. Schiebenes of Milwaukee Reporters 
20       Associated, Inc. 

00002
 1                          PROCEEDINGS
 2                 (All City Personnel were duly affirmed.)
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  This is a resumption of the 
 4       Common Council's Licenses Committee.  We have before 
 5       us right now Item No. 3, which is File No. 081114, a 
 6       motion relating to the revocation of the Class B 
 7       Tavern License and Tavern Dance License for Emantha 
 8       Peavey for the licensed premises known as Groovin Inn, 
 9       at 333 East Hadley Street due to sworn charges by the 
10       chief of police.  Good afternoon to all of you.  
11                 MR. PURNELL:  Good afternoon.  
12                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What I would like to do -- 
13       Ms. Peavey, are you represented here?  
14                 THE APPLICANT:  Yes, I am.  
15                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If you could you acknowledge 
16       yourself here for our record, please. 
17                 MR. PURNELL:  Attorney Jeff Purnell, 
18       J-E-F-F, P-U-R-N-E-L-L.  Mr. Chairman, I just want to 
19       make a statement to the chair, if I might.
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Please.
21                 MR. PURNELL:  I'm asking the Council to 
22       adjourn this matter.  Alderwoman Coggs is Ms. Peavey's 
23       Alderwoman, and Ms. Peavey was served with this on 
24       Monday.  She hired counsel shortly thereafter, but 
25       trust me when I say looking at this that the powers 

00003
 1       that be in the city didn't put this together in three 
 2       days.  There's a lot of stuff to go through, and 
 3       frankly, there's some research and investigation that 
 4       I need to complete.
 5                 Ms. Peavey --  And frankly, I might go as 
 6       far as to say that I think we kind of owe her that.  
 7       She has been there with her husband or since his 
 8       passing since 1969, and this is a very serious matter, 
 9       Mr. Chairman, that she owns the building.  I believe 
10       that's the only asset besides her home that she owns, 
11       and frankly, if the license is pulled at that place, 
12       the value is going to go to little or nothing.  And so 
13       I'm going to ask the Chairman to adjourn this to give 
14       me some time to develop this a little bit and come 
15       down here and have a better discussion with you when 
16       Alderwoman Coggs can be here.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I just want to clarify one 
18       thing; and that is, initially there was a letter 
19       request that went out that was mailed out.  Did that 
20       return?  I know there was a summons that was 
21       subsequently issued, and I don't believe that it was 
22       the case in the previous revocation.  Was there an 
23       attempt to try to reach Ms. Peavey that was not 
24       successful or was returned in such a way that 
25       ultimately there was a summons, or were all these 

00004
 1       going out in the form of summons?  Can somebody 
 2       clarify that for me?  Was there a summons in the first 
 3       item today?  
 4                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  Yes, there was.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  There was a summons?
 6                 MR. STEPHENS:  Yes.  
 7                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What's the statutory minimum 
 8       in terms of notice?  
 9                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  Three days, and the three 
10       days cannot include Saturdays, Sundays, or legal 
11       holidays.  
12                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We have it indicated that it 
13       was served on the 1st of November.  Would that have 
14       been --  
15                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  1st of December.  
16                 MR. PURNELL:  I believe she was served 
17       Monday, Mr. Chairman.  
18                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  So you don't count the 1st, 
19       you don't count today.  That would be Tuesday, 
20       Wednesday, Thursday, that would be the three days.  
21                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  So there is sufficient 
22       notice, at least by law?  
23                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  Yes, by statute, specifically 
24       125.12.  
25                 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  I think that the 

00005
 1       request made by Attorney Purnell is reasonable, under 
 2       the circumstances, and I would --  
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Let me say this much.  
 4       Here's what we have before us.  We have a couple of 
 5       issues.  One is in the date of the hearing, if there 
 6       is an adverse finding by this body, there has to be 
 7       put together findings of fact and conclusions of law 
 8       by the City Attorney's Office.  That particular 
 9       document would need to be made and would need to be 
10       provided by Monday afternoon in order to meet the 
11       statutory notice requirement for there to be action 
12       taken by this Common Council on our subsequent or 
13       upcoming Common Council meeting, which is on the 16th 
14       of December, and as we continue to move through the 
15       hearing, that will be increasingly difficult given the 
16       long weekend's time before copy of transcript would be 
17       subsequently done and provided to Mr. Bruce Schrimpf 
18       to enable him to get that out and to have that done 
19       with sufficient time.
20                 The second issue is that I was informed here 
21       now a week ago by Alderwoman Coggs, who has 
22       subsequently returned from maternity leave -- it was 
23       not until two days ago -- she informed me a week ago 
24       she needed to be excused from a previous hearing 
25       that we had scheduled for today in the afternoon 

00006
 1       because she had a physician appointment for herself 
 2       and a subsequent one for her daughter at the 
 3       pediatrician.  And I had given her previous notice, 
 4       given her previous reason for being excused from this 
 5       afternoon's meeting for that reason.  She didn't know 
 6       at the time, because I think there was a snafu in 
 7       which staff did not inform her that a particular item 
 8       in her district was going to be on the docket.  She 
 9       was not really happy with that.
10                 I have had a discussion with her, and what I 
11       indicated that I wanted to do in light of the two 
12       issues is this much; I wanted to be able to take into 
13       the record the testimony of neighbors based on -- we 
14       will have the beginning portion of the -- an 
15       introduction that would be made in terms of allowing 
16       for the summons to come forward, at least setting the 
17       guidelines of the police department seeking the 
18       revocation, at which time we can allow for individuals 
19       who are here who are neighbors in opposition.  That 
20       would enable you, Mr. Purnell, to cross-examine if you 
21       have questions based on their testimony.  It would 
22       indeed provide you additional time whereby you can 
23       build an additional case.
24                 We won't hear specific items regarding the 
25       police department brought forward in terms of the 

00007
 1       police report, only neighborhood concerns raised.  We 
 2       can then either schedule this for the 15th or a 
 3       subsequent hearing.  In fact, if we do it for the 
 4       15th, it's almost a moot point unless there is a 
 5       subsequent Common Council meeting that will beat the 
 6       next Common Council meeting in mid-January, but we 
 7       would definitely hold a meeting between now and that 
 8       next Common Council meeting so that it would be taken 
 9       up in sufficient time.  It will provide you 
10       additional time to address other particular concerns.
11                 What I want to say is, given the fact that 
12       residents were provided notice, showed up, waited 
13       their time here, I don't see after all these many 
14       hours why we should turn around and tell them thank 
15       you, go home, come back another day.  So if you are 
16       willing to do that, I am willing to have those 
17       residents heard and then seek an adjournment to allow 
18       you to continue to present your case above and beyond 
19       that.  Short of that, my response is going to be a 
20       request this much; that we move forward and we provide 
21       findings of fact and see if the service provides that 
22       over the weekend, and Mr. Schrimpf will just have to 
23       tell his wife that he's going to be putting in longer 
24       hours.  Ball's in your court on that.  
25                 MR. PURNELL:  Mr. Chairman, the only 

00008
 1       question that I had, first of all, the neighbors had 
 2       notice well before Ms. Peavey did on this.  And the 
 3       other thing that concerns me -- 
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  You know what, I'm not aware 
 5       that that is the case, first off.  Secondly, even if 
 6       it were, the only thing that we really have to worry 
 7       about is that we have met the statutory minimum.  If 
 8       we met the legal lawful requirement to that, 
 9       everything else is a moot point.  I'm going to tell 
10       you, this was not coming out of thin air.  In terms of 
11       discussions, I had heard about this here for some time 
12       as the chairman of the this committee, that there were 
13       concerns that were expressed and that this was moving 
14       forward.
15                 So it's like the equivalent if somebody is 
16       over the course of time taking out blades of grass 
17       little by little and say wow, what happened to my 
18       front lawn.  That's literally what I'll say is my 
19       belief with regard to the --  The specific date, 
20       perhaps, but to say that she's blindsided by this, I 
21       have no belief in that whatsoever, because even I as 
22       not even a representative of this area knew that this 
23       was coming well, well in advance.  Frankly, if she 
24       didn't know based on the police report that I've seen, 
25       then there's something else coming, because there's a 

00009
 1       huge citations of police reports.  You have an 80-10 
 2       that was declared a nuisance.  That is a nuisance 
 3       premise.  I fail to believe that.  
 4                 MR. PURNELL:  My main concern here, Mr. 
 5       Chairman, is that Alderwoman Coggs is not here, and 
 6       again, it is her district.  I think she should be 
 7       present when the testimony is taken from her 
 8       residents.  
 9                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That has no bearing 
10       whatsoever because she doesn't even have to vote on 
11       the item.  Frankly, you could have a vote that goes 
12       through the Common Council as long as we have a 
13       quorum of the Council, you don't need a majority of 
14       anything.  So notwithstanding that, what I have said 
15       to her is I will have a transcript ordered and/or she 
16       can watch a tape of this proceeding, she will then at 
17       the next meeting vouch that she has indeed seen the 
18       tape replay of this in which the questions are indeed 
19       asked, and that therefore, she will be brought up to 
20       speed along with the rest of the committee.  
21                 MR. PURNELL:  Obviously, I'm not in the 
22       strongest negotiating position here, so I'll take your 
23       offer to do what you need to do today and put over the 
24       rest of that so that I can do some work, and we'll 
25       take it from there.  

00010
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What we will need do is we 
 2       will need to swear in Ms. Peavey at this time here.
 3                 (EMANTHA PEAVEY was duly affirmed.)  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What I'll ask you at this 
 5       time here name and address for our record, please.  
 6                 THE APPLICANT:  Emantha Peavey, 5051 North 
 7       19th Place.  
 8                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Ms. Peavey.  Mr. 
 9       Purnell, I'm going to ask you if you acknowledge 
10       receiving the summons for this particular meeting that 
11       would include a sworn charge of the chief of police 
12       for revocation of this license, and if there's an 
13       acknowledgement that a revocation is a possibility?  
14                 MR. PURNELL:  Yes, we acknowledge that.  
15                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  And I will duly 
16       note your concerns expressed for the record that are 
17       on record.  What I'd like to do here is, without 
18       necessarily getting into the depth of the police 
19       report, Mr. Stephens, do you want to just acknowledge 
20       yourself for the record.  
21                 MR. STEPHENS:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.  Adam 
22       Stephens with the City Attorney's Office, Community 
23       Prosecution Unit.  I am representing the police 
24       department in this matter, and to my right is Captain 
25       Anthony Smith, the commander of Police District No. 5 

00011
 1       and is signatory of the sworn charges by the chief 
 2       of police for the revocation of the license.  Briefly, 
 3       Mr. Chair and committee, this is a -- 
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If I may, what I'd like to 
 5       do at this time is, like we did with the earlier item, 
 6       if you could provide a summary of the complaint, and 
 7       what we'll do is after the summary is provided here, 
 8       we'll open it to individuals who are here to testify 
 9       in opposition to the license in terms of neighbors, 
10       neighborhood, because this, unlike the earlier item 
11       which was exclusively based on police reports, does 
12       allow for additional corroborating evidence from 
13       neighbors.
14                 What I do want to do is have them come 
15       forward, we'll take their testimony, Mr. Purnell would 
16       be able to cross-examine them, the committee would be 
17       able to raise questions.  But even by your bringing 
18       forward the portions of the charges by the police for 
19       revocation, would, among other things, even for 
20       residents and the committee members, establish the 
21       parameters by which neighborhood testimony can be 
22       received.  
23                 MR. STEPHENS:  Sure.  Thank you.  Committee, 
24       the police report of --  The summary of the police 
25       report of the License Investigation Unit that is 

00012
 1       attached to the sworn charges documents the factual 
 2       basis for the reason the chief of police has moved for 
 3       the revocation of this license.  It highlights 
 4       numerous episodes of large and disorderly and raucous 
 5       crowds and loitering outside the licensed premises on 
 6       multiple dates since June of 2008.  It involved 
 7       several incidences of narcotics that were packaged for 
 8       resale, there was multiple firearms events that 
 9       occurred at or around the premises.
10                 The rub, though, if you will, and the 
11       important thing why this is coming to the committee's 
12       attention is that we have a situation where the 
13       licensee is no longer in control of this premise and 
14       has not been in control of this premise since 
15       approximately June of 2008.  The evidence that the 
16       department would be putting forth in both the attached 
17       exhibits to the sworn charges is letters by a Miguel 
18       Green, two of them, as well as a letter drafted by Ms. 
19       Peavey herself to the police department both 
20       acknowledge that he, Miguel Green, is the person who's 
21       acting as de facto licensee, he is acting controlling 
22       the premises, and obviously, given the statutory and 
23       code requirements that only licensees manage the 
24       properties and control the properties, we have a 
25       problem because she's not doing it, number one.

00013
 1                 Number two, the police department, pursuant 
 2       to Milwaukee Code of Ordinances 80-10, has labeled 
 3       this property a nuisance.  Ms. Peavey is both the 
 4       owner of the property itself and as the licensee of 
 5       the premises.  Obviously, that code is ineffective if 
 6       she is not controlling the property.  Regardless of 
 7       what those reasons are, that's the fact.  The fact is 
 8       is Ms. Peavey has seceded control of these premises 
 9       long ago, and the person who is in control of them is 
10       letting this place go wildly out of control, as 
11       evidenced by the incidences that are documented in the 
12       summary report of the License Investigation Unit.
13                 I suspect that the neighbors that are here 
14       today will probably mimic some of the allegations 
15       that are made in the letter that was also attached to 
16       the sworn charges documenting their own opinions and 
17       observations of the activity that's associated with 
18       the licensed premises.  Those acknowledgements, the 
19       neighbors' complaints and the behavior that is 
20       happening have been confirmed in the letters that have 
21       been attached from both Mr. Green and Ms. Peavey.  I 
22       also have a letter that I recently came into 
23       possession, a letter drafted by Ms. Peavey that was 
24       received by the police department on October 22nd, 
25       2008, which would also provide further information 

00014
 1       about the fact that she is not actually really in 
 2       control of these premises.
 3                 Given the severity of the problems that are 
 4       documented factually in the summary report, and given 
 5       the fact that there does not seem to be an adequate 
 6       lawful control of these premises, revocation is needed 
 7       and necessary in the circumstances.  So I appreciate 
 8       the chair at least permitting the neighbors to come 
 9       forward and offer the testimony, as they've been 
10       waiting here patiently for a couple of hours.  And I'd 
11       also like to acknowledge, too, from an equitable point 
12       of view, I personally met with Ms. Peavey along with 
13       Community Liaison Officer Ray Robakowski (phonetic) 
14       who's here on October 14th, 2008 and told her this was 
15       coming, that the revocation proceedings were drafted.  
16       So this is not a surprise by any means to anybody 
17       who's sitting at the table other than, perhaps, 
18       her counsel.  
19                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Are there 
20       questions committee members may have at this time of 
21       City Attorney Stephens?  Thank you.  Any questions, 
22       comments, Mr. Purnell?  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  Not at this time, Mr. 
24       Chairman.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What I'd like to do here at 

00015
 1       this time is see a show of hands from individuals who 
 2       are neighbors of this establishment who are here to 
 3       testify, if I could see a show of hands.  I'm going to 
 4       establish my rules.  My rules are this much:  When I 
 5       ask you if you are here as a neighbor to provide 
 6       testimony and I ask you to raise your hand and I swear 
 7       you in, I don't want some of the up down and then down 
 8       and then later on you start giving me this in the 
 9       background, I wanted, I decided not to.  It's either 
10       you do now and are sworn in or you lose the chance, at 
11       least you lose the chance today.  Any neighbor who 
12       wishes to provide testimony today must have their hand 
13       up in the air and visible to me right now, and you 
14       will be sworn in.
15                 (Witness were duly affirmed.) 
16                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What I'm going to ask at 
17       this time, is the code practice is to hear from 
18       individuals who are here in opposition first.  So, 
19       sir, with all due respect, if you could relinquish the 
20       seat in the front row, I would ask for those 
21       individuals who are neighbors who are here in 
22       opposition to take seats in the front row.  What I'm 
23       going to do ask that we do is you will first off need 
24       to provide your name and your address for the record.  
25       If there is a difficult pronunciation or spelling 

00016
 1       of your name or the pronunciation is difficult whereby 
 2       you believe the possibility the court reporter may not 
 3       get the spelling correctly, I would ask that you would 
 4       spell your name if there is any difficulty.  If it's 
 5       short of Hill, please clarify by spelling that out.
 6                 Then what we would need is testimony --  I 
 7       don't know if you have a listing of the complaint.  
 8       I'm going to have to take a moment and take a look at 
 9       this.  In a revocation proceeding, you are only able 
10       to speak to items that are directly enumerated in the 
11       complaint.  If the complaint speaks of specific items 
12       and it omits there being fireworks and you're annoyed 
13       that patrons are coming outside and shooting off
14       fireworks, it may be annoying to you, but we can't 
15       take it up because we are limited and bound by only 
16       those items that are enumerated in the complaint 
17       itself.
18                 So what I'm going to ask that we do is 
19       that if you do have difficulty standing at the 
20       standing microphone, I will enable somebody to take a 
21       seat here.  Please, if you know that you have 
22       difficulty, just do that on your own.  Otherwise, what 
23       we're going to do is we're going to proceed from my 
24       right to take you individually, again, name and 
25       address, spelling of your name if there's any question 

00017
 1       to that effect, and then those items that are 
 2       enumerated in here that you have directly experienced.
 3       This committee is only allowed to take firsthand 
 4       testimony, so for you to say I heard from my neighbor 
 5       that this occurred on the day when I was on vacation 
 6       is not firsthand testimony, that is not things that 
 7       you have individually personally witnessed.  Are there 
 8       any questions anyone has?  
 9                 MR. PURNELL:  Yeah, I do, Mr. Chairman.  
10       Which is the official complaint, the pool from which 
11       we are picking here?  
12                 MR. STEPHENS:  Mr. Chair.  
13                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Item No. 4 under the sworn 
14       complaint from the chief of police, it could include 
15       any -- if there's corroborating evidence, for example, 
16       if the police department has responded on specific 
17       events, if some individual, for example, it says here 
18       that -- under Item No. 4 under written corresponce 
19       from neighbors directed to the Milwaukee police dated 
20       October 10th, 2008, "The Groovin Inn has been 
21       associated with disruptive and disorderly activities, 
22       such as excessive noise, constant loitering, patrons 
23       sitting on residents' porches, drunken patrons, 
24       sleeping on residents' porches, stolen cars, a woman 
25       left in the bar overnight, underage drinking, underage 

00018
 1       staff, strippers, over-capacity crowds, and damage to 
 2       cars brawls in the streets, and gunshots being fired," 
 3       anything relating to those items that is indeed 
 4       noticed can be spoken to.
 5                 Additionally, if there is anything else that 
 6       is specifically provided for in the complaint 
 7       including police reports in which individuals have 
 8       direct knowledge where they themselves were witnesses, 
 9       those items may also indeed be testified to.  
10                 MR. PURNELL:  Very well.  
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Schrimpf?
12                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  That's fine.  
13                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ma'am, we'll start with you, 
14       please.  
15                 THE WITNESS:  My name is Sarah Noble.  I 
16       reside at 2916 North Richards.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  How close is that, 
18       approximately, to the club?  
19                 THE WITNESS:  I actually moved from directly 
20       across the street from the club, which is why I'm here 
21       to testify tonight.  
22                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Why when did you move, 
23       ma'am?  
24                 THE WITNESS:  I moved at the end of 
25       September.

00019
 1                 MR. SCHRIMPF:  Of this year?  
 2                 THE WITNESS:  Of this year.  
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Please, proceed.  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  On the morning of August 31st, 
 5       the wee hours of Sunday morning, I arrived with a 
 6       friend who was helping me to take in large containers 
 7       of food into my home, and we had to double-park 
 8       because there was no parking at 1:30 a.m. or so in the 
 9       morning, which was pretty typical Sunday through 
10       Saturday living on this block.  I asked her to just 
11       double-park and see if an opening became available 
12       because people were pouring out of the bar.  So we're 
13       just sitting there just watching and waiting.
14                 People are not moving, they're standing 
15       around talking, they're standing in the streets.  And 
16       finally I just told her let's get out of the car and 
17       just help me in with the items.  Young men who had 
18       been standing -- coming out of the bar, standing in 
19       front of the bar make their way to standing in front 
20       of my house.  I don't say anything, I just go on in 
21       and take the items in.  It's very early in the 
22       morning.  My friend leaves.  Five minutes probably 
23       have passed by.
24                 I take my dog out, and as I am coming off of 
25       my porch to take my dog out, one of the young men that 

00020
 1       had been standing on the sidewalk in front of my house 
 2       is now sitting.  He gets startled by the dog, starts 
 3       cussing me out, telling me he's going to shoot me and 
 4       he's going to shoot my dog because I came out of my 
 5       own home in the wee hours of the morning and scared 
 6       him.  It was as if it was 1:30 in the afternoon.  And 
 7       this was commonplace.
 8                 I had someone sleeping on my porch and had 
 9       to call the Milwaukee Police Department and ask them 
10       to please remove this person, I couldn't get out of my 
11       front door.  I've had numerous of incidents that were 
12       outlined in that report that I had the experience.  
13       People running through the yards shooting off guns, 
14       people not leaving, even though security is claiming 
15       that they're securing something, people just standing 
16       and totally ignoring anything anybody had to say.  
17       There was no control over the crowd at this bar at any 
18       time during my residence.
19                 I left.  And you need to understand that I 
20       didn't just move out of an apartment, I severed a deal 
21       to buy a home.  I let the deal go because I could not 
22       take it.  So this incident with this young man telling 
23       me he's going to shoot me and my dog was enough for 
24       me.  I had had it, and so I moved.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Questions by committee 

00021
 1       members?  Mr. Stephens, were there any questions that 
 2       you had?  
 3                 MR. STEPHENS:  No, sir.  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Purnell, any questions? 
 5                 MR. PURNELL:  Just a couple, Mr. Chairman.   
 6       Ms. Noble, you indicated that numerous times you were 
 7       -- you said numerous times that all these things 
 8       happened.  Can you give me specific dates when these 
 9       things happened and specific times and how many times?  
10                 THE WITNESS:  I can tell you, I moved in in 
11       April.  There were a couple of weeks that I had of 
12       peace.  Now, I heard June and all of this mentioned 
13       here in testimony, but it was in the spring that I 
14       started getting disrupted.  My sleep, I can't find a 
15       place to park, gunshots, people fighting in the middle 
16       of the street, all of those things happened between 
17       spring time when I moved in and when I moved out at 
18       the end of September.  
19                 MR. PURNELL:  So you moved in in April, so 
20       you have no idea whether gunshots were happening in 
21       that neighborhood before you moved in, right?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  Let's just say I understand 
23       what happened at that bar.  I sat --  I lived in close 
24       enough proximity to that bar to watch the comings and 
25       the goings of everyone.  

00022
 1                 MR. PURNELL:  Did you ever go in the bar?  
 2                 THE WITNESS:  No, I did not.  
 3                 MR. PURNELL:  Did you ever see someone shoot 
 4       a gun off?  
 5                 THE WITNESS:  No, I did not.  
 6                 MR. PURNELL:  Nothing further.  
 7                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ms. Noble, I just have a 
 8       follow-up or two.  Are there any other licensed 
 9       establishments, any other bars, nightclubs in the 
10       immediate area other than the Groovin Inn?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
12                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  How close in proximity to 
13       the Groovin Inn?  
14                 THE WITNESS:  There's one a block down on 
15       Holton -- on Locust and Hadley -- I mean on Locust and 
16       Buffum.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Did you have a reasonable 
18       enough vantage point where you were able to ascertain 
19       that the patrons that you were describing as having 
20       these major problems with were coming from the Groovin 
21       Inn versus that or some other establishment?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  I could see them coming from 
23       the door.  I had a clear view of that bar from my 
24       home.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  In terms of the 

00023
 1       disturbances that you describe, if you had to estimate 
 2       from spring, how many times a week did it disturb your 
 3       evening or your nightly pattern?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Some weeks it was almost 
 5       nightly.  It really depended.  You know, you're 
 6       talking about having to get up and go to work the 
 7       following day and getting to bed at 2:00 and 3:00 in 
 8       the morning because there was no rest until finally 
 9       people decided to go away or the Milwaukee Police 
10       Department showed up and ushered people away, and it 
11       was night after night.  And it didn't matter if it was 
12       a Sunday or Thursday, it happened numerous of times 
13       whether it was the weekend or a week night.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I described in the past 
15       situations where individuals have been involved in 
16       behavior of what is sometimes I think misappropriately 
17       called cruising, and in those situations, what we 
18       typically find, it's more like squatting, where you 
19       find individuals who actually park their cars in the 
20       middle of streets and then get out and pretend it's 
21       like Mardi Gras.  They get out and they party, they 
22       turn the music up, and they're walking in the streets, 
23       dancing on the cars, doing thing where they're 
24       actually not moving.
25                 Is it a fair characterization for me to 

00024
 1       question you when individuals were leaving whether or 
 2       not they were squatting?  I don't want to put words in 
 3       your mouth, but it almost seems like you are 
 4       characterizing this in a way where individuals simply 
 5       are not leaving the area but are continuing 
 6       discussions or whatever else it may be on the streets 
 7       after they leave the establishment and it's closed.  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  They didn't often leave the 
 9       area, they often hung around.
10                 (Whereupon Alderwoman Coggs joined the 
11       committee.) 
12                 THE WITNESS:  This wasn't just at closing 
13       time.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  What would be typical in 
15       terms of when the area would clear out after a typical 
16       weekend night closing time?  
17                 THE WITNESS:  I don't know if I could give 
18       you a typical, but I can tell you it was often in the 
19       wee hours of the morning when the bar let out.  But it 
20       wasn't like it was quiet as church mouse while the bar 
21       was open.  It was activity from the time the patrons 
22       began coming until the bar actually closed.  It 
23       heightened, the noise levels, the activity, the fights 
24       and all of that, at times at bar closing time, but it 
25       wasn't quiet while it was open.  

00025
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I gotcha.  So you had 
 2       disruption throughout, but there were times where the 
 3       ebbs and flows hit the peaks around closing time?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Are there any 
 6       other questions that that does elicit?  Thank you, Ms. 
 7       Noble.  Next witness, please.  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  Hello.  My name is Kyla, 
 9       K-Y-L-A, Fernandez.  I reside at 2737 North Buffum 
10       Street.  
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  How close, approximately, is 
12       that to this location?  
13                 THE WITNESS:  That's exactly seven homes 
14       south of the bar.  
15                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Please, proceed.  
16                 THE WITNESS:  Well, we actually bought our 
17       house June of last year.  My husband and I stopped in 
18       the bar actually and had a drink.  It was early 
19       afternoon.  I do believe Leo -- somebody else was 
20       taking care of the bar or was in the bar, but Ms. 
21       Peavey was present, and we told her we had a nice 
22       time.  We were like the only two people in the bar, 
23       and we thought maybe we would go back.  But July came 
24       and August, and I do believe I may have called the 
25       police a few times, but that already told us right 

00026
 1       away we were not going back into that bar.
 2                 As winter came, it almost deceased, no 
 3       trouble, no cars, no nothing.  As soon as spring came 
 4       this year, total mayhem Thursday through Sunday, loud, 
 5       people walking.  Mind you, my bedroom is in the back 
 6       of my house upstairs, and I am -- we are literally 
 7       woken up by voices as young women are walking.  We 
 8       have a corner lot that's totally empty south of us, 
 9       there is no homes but one vacant one all the way to 
10       Center Street, and young females will literally walk 
11       down this block and proceed to say that they need to 
12       urinate, but they don't use the word urinate, they 
13       cuss.
14                 Pretty soon we're up, we're at it, we're out 
15       on the lawn, we're standing there, we're watching the 
16       whole tirade of anybody that does not drive.  Mind 
17       you, the cars are on both sides.  They're going in 
18       reverse because they cannot get through Hadley and 
19       Buffum, so they will do 40 miles an hour speed 
20       backwards all the way to Center Street, flying 
21       right out on Center Street.  They will use the 
22       alleyway all the way across.  They have literally --
23                 My last few calls have been shots fired.  
24       The last one, the most recent one was at 1:43 we heard 
25       the shots.  I thought I am too tired, I'm so tired of 

00027
 1       this, but at 2:00 I literally got up, called the 
 2       police, told them it's mayhem, it's chaos outside, 
 3       went and sat on my front porch and watched, just 
 4       watched bottles break, I watched cars go over broken 
 5       bottles, I saw people just standing there, just 
 6       standing there with their music just rattling my 
 7       windows.
 8                 Then I do believe it was the 15th I called 
 9       again.  There was 15 to 20 males right in front of my 
10       house, they're starting to fight.  There's loud 
11       screaming, there's loud noise.  The police responded, 
12       and they took care of it, but I did hear the officer 
13       ask one of the drivers where are you from.  They said 
14       95th and someplace.  And I thought well, what are they 
15       doing here.  I even heard the officer ask him what are 
16       you doing on this block.  But they called me back like 
17       about 45 minutes later to explain to me that they 
18       would not give them any reason of why they were there 
19       in that block.  But yet, the police officers knew that 
20       they were inebriated, that they probably had stemmed 
21       from the bar.
22                 And like I said, the minute spring comes and 
23       the weather is nice, it is so dangerous.  I've invited 
24       everybody to come and sit in my yard, because it's 
25       fenced in, and I have three dogs, a German shepard, a 

00028
 1       pit bull, and a collie.  Come sit in my yard.  Give it 
 2       any day, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday in the middle 
 3       of next summer.  I'll have a barbecue.  Just come.  
 4       You don't even need cable TV, it is right there.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ms. Fernandez, a question 
 6       for you regarding the shootings that you discussed.  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  Sure.  
 8                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Do you have knowledge that 
 9       this was occurring in the immediate block area here 
10       versus two, three blocks away, would you be able to 
11       discern the difference between the two?  I just want 
12       to verify.
13                 THE WITNESS:  Oh, yes, oh, yes.  In fact, my 
14       oldest son had happened to be spending the night one 
15       night when he heard commotion going on.  He pulled the 
16       curtain back, and he saw the van that had shot the gun 
17       climb into a car.  Everybody was going come on, come 
18       on, get into the car.  I know that's hearsay.  But my 
19       son had said, mom, there was a gun involved, and I did 
20       see it.  
21                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  But you did hear it at that 
22       time?   
23                 THE WITNESS:  Oh, yes.  I'm just not fast 
24       enough to get from my bedroom all the way down the 
25       stairs all the way through the front door.  Mostly 

00029
 1       Thursday through Friday most of the time I have two of 
 2       my five grandchildren.  
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The other thing is is I 
 4       don't know that if I hear gunshots that I'm running to 
 5       find out if there's going to be more either by going 
 6       outside.  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  The phone is in my hand.  
 8                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Right, right.  But I don't 
 9       know that even I personally, if I were witnessing 
10       that, would be necessarily going closer to the 
11       proximity.  
12                 THE WITNESS:  Well, I've got grandchildren 
13       sleeping on my sofas.  I want to make sure that they 
14       are down and out of the way.  
15                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Absolutely, absolutely.  And 
16       this coincided with individuals that you were aware of 
17       that were coming and going to this establishment?  
18                 THE WITNESS:  Coming from.  You can just sit 
19       on the porch and watch them come.  Their cars are 
20       parked in front of my house, they stand there.  
21                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And again, I wanted to ask 
22       the same question that I asked Ms. Noble; and that is, 
23       is this something that you were verifying as 
24       individuals who are patrons of this establishment and 
25       not one of the other establishments that may have been 

00030
 1       a block or so further away?  Were you instead able to 
 2       determine that these were patrons of this 
 3       establishment and not some other establishment?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Right.  Because they're 
 5       coming, they're getting in their vans.  I don't know 
 6       what they're doing in their cars.  Maybe I do, but I 
 7       can't say because I'm not in that car, but from what I 
 8       can see, they're drinking and they're either smoking 
 9       drugs or doing something, but they literally sit there 
10       15, 20 minutes before they decide to leave.  
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  You would see them either 
12       coming or going from this establishment?  
13                 THE WITNESS:  Yes, yes.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  So they weren't coming from 
15       anywhere else?  
16                 THE WITNESS:  No.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That's what I wanted to 
18       clarify.  Other questions by committee members?  
19                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Mr. Chair.  Just a 
20       piggyback on what Chairman said.  In your explanation 
21       of events that you witnessed, I didn't get the 
22       impression from the explanation that you actually saw 
23       the people come out of the club.  
24                 THE WITNESS:  I cannot see the front door, 
25       but there's an empty lot all the way to Center Street, 

00031
 1       and everybody on the other side are either not going 
 2       to that bar or they're older people that do not go to 
 3       that bar.  When I go out on my front porch, everybody 
 4       is coming from the north, and they're going to their 
 5       cars.  You see them.  It's easy.  
 6                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  So you don't actually see 
 7       them come out the club but -- 
 8                 THE WITNESS:  No.  The door faces northeast.  
 9                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  But you never really saw 
10       if they're coming from the club?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  The words they're using and 
12       the way they're walking, you kind of put two and two 
13       together.  
14                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Thank you.  
15                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Other questions by committee 
16       members?  Mr. Stephens, anything you want to raise?  
17                 MR. STEPHENS:  No.  
18                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Purnell, any questions?  
19                 MR. PURNELL:  Sure.  Ms. Fernandez, you 
20       indicated that you moved into the house June of last 
21       year?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  Which year was that, '07?
24                 THE WITNESS:  '07, yes.  
25                 MR. PURNELL:  And you said that when you 

00032
 1       moved in it was okay, in the winter then it got bad 
 2       again?  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  No, no.  Well, we were into 
 4       packing --  We moved in like June 27th.  
 5                 MR. PURNELL:  '07?  
 6                 THE WITNESS:  Um-hum.  From June to July, 
 7       halfway through August, we were more into us and 
 8       getting our house together.  But we did stop in there, 
 9       like I said, about two weeks after we had moved in.  
10       We thought let's go check out this bar.  My husband is 
11       a beer drinker, so it would be nice to have a nice 
12       place to go to after work, get away from the kids 
13       within walking distance.  We did, we went in, we 
14       thought okay, this might work.  But not after like 
15       four weeks of seeing what was coming out of there.  We 
16       had to say oh-oh, that is no good.  
17                 MR. PURNELL:  It was right away bad right 
18       then in June and July and August of '07, huh?  
19                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
20                 MR. PURNELL:  You indicated that you made a 
21       call to the police at 1:43 or something like that?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  I didn't.  I heard shots fired 
23       at 1:43.  I did not call until 2:00.  
24                 MR. PURNELL:  And did you say you saw 
25       someone shooting the gun at that time?  

00033
 1                 THE WITNESS:  No, I did not see him.  
 2                 MR. PURNELL:  I don't have anything further, 
 3       Mr. Chairman.  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, ma'am.  
 5                 THE WITNESS:  Thank you.  
 6                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sir.  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  I'm Frank Dettloff, 
 8       D-E-T-T-L-O-F-F, 2526 North Dousman Street, Milwaukee, 
 9       Wisconsin, 53212.  I'm the owner of the property at 
10       2764-66 North Buffum, and that's where Sarah Noble was 
11       living.  And we did have this agreement.  We were 
12       trying to work it out so that she would become a 
13       homeowner, and as you heard from her, she has 
14       subsequently left because of the disturbances.  And my 
15       tenant upstairs in the upper unit -- 
16                 MR. PURNELL:  Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to 
17       stay within the Paragraph 4.  
18                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If you could, if you find a 
19       way here quickly to confine it to the complaint.  Now, 
20       what I want to say is is that ultimately this 
21       committee has an ability to either hear a revocation 
22       or have a standard renewal.  If it is a standard 
23       renewal, there is much more leeway in terms of hearing 
24       testimony than there is a revocation.  That's why I 
25       generally try to discourage it, unless it is all      

00034
 1       inhumanly possible to have a revocations.  Revocation 
 2       is taking a level up a bar and telling you to try to 
 3       jump over a hurtle that's up to your neck as opposed 
 4       to one that's at your hip.  When it's at your hip, the 
 5       threshold is much more open in terms of hearing 
 6       testimony.
 7                 It must be confined to things that you have 
 8       personally seen or witnessed with regard to the 
 9       establishment.  It may be that you have an economic 
10       impingement based on what you've heard from others, 
11       that would be hearsay what you heard from others.  
12       So unless you personally have been there and have seen 
13       and witnessed it, I'm going to ask you to really 
14       tighten and get to the heart of that.  
15                 THE WITNESS:  I can only report that my 
16       tenant told me that's the reason she's leaving.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We appreciate that, but that 
18       testimony would be hearsay testimony with regard to 
19       issues in the complaint.  And I have no doubt that it 
20       affects you, but with regard to this particular item, 
21       the latitude is certainly not there.  Alderman Kovac.  
22                 ALDERMAN KOVAC:  Mr. Chair.  In the course 
23       of visiting your tenants and checking up on your 
24       property, have you noticed anything yourself?  
25                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  I have noticed bottles, 

00035
 1       beer cans on the lawn, and I've had --  And this is, I 
 2       would say, almost every time I go over there.  I can 
 3       say that for a fact.  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Questions for Mr. Dettloff?  
 5       Alderwoman Coggs.
 6                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  How do you know that 
 7       those cans and bottles are from the tavern?  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  I don't.  
 9                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Along those lines, I have 
10       a question for Ms. Peavey.  Do you sell canned liquor 
11       in your establishment?  
12                 THE APPLICANT:  No.  There's somebody that 
13       picks up trash every night when the bar close.  
14                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Thank you.  That's all I 
15       wanted to know if you even sell canned liquor.  You 
16       don't.  
17                 THE APPLICANT:  No.  
18                 THE WITNESS:  But there were bottles.  Thank 
19       you.  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The other thing, too, is 
21       that there are times where there are individuals who 
22       are customers of an establishment will drink in their 
23       vehicles and then deposit it in the lawn coming to a 
24       place.  That's something that I think an establishment 
25       winds up picking up in the general area.  I mean, 

00036
 1       that's just something that a good place does.  Ma'am, 
 2       we'll take your testimony, please.  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  My name is Jackie Reed- 
 4       Dettloff, and I am also part owner of the property, 
 5       the three units at 2764 North Buffum.  I want to say 
 6       thank you for hearing us because it's hard for working 
 7       people to sit for two hours and then be sent home, so 
 8       I'm very grateful for being heard.
 9                 I have two direct experiences related to 
10       this case.  One is at the back.  We have three units 
11       on our property, and the back of the property is a 
12       cottage that is occupied by a woman, a single mom with 
13       three children, who has repeatedly told me that she's 
14       afraid.  
15                 MR. PURNELL:  Object.  
16                 THE WITNESS:  That is hearsay.  But my 
17       experience is hearing from this tenant who is afraid 
18       for her children, but I don't have specifics, that's 
19       true.  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That testimony will be 
21       stricken from the record.  That individual would have 
22       to come here and express that on her own.  
23                 THE WITNESS:  And she can't, she couldn't do 
24       that today.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I understand the 

00037
 1       difficulties with that, but that is what it is, and 
 2       we're confined by the letter of the law.  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  My other experience was 
 4       attending that meeting at the police station that was 
 5       held in October, it was a community meeting, and 
 6       Officer Robakowski and Alderwoman Coggs were there and 
 7       many neighbors.  At that meeting, I know, I'm aware 
 8       that on June 17th, this license was renewed, that 
 9       there were neighbors who came to this hearing and 
10       testified, I think -- I wasn't there, but I know that 
11       they were present, and regardless of the testimony 
12       that they offered at that time, the license was 
13       renewed.
14                 But I was told at the meeting at the police 
15       station when I pointed out from having gone to the 
16       police station that by June 17th, there were 14 
17       incident reports on file.  And I asked, well, didn't 
18       people know about the reports that people had called 
19       on the police file, and I was told that evidently that 
20       information hadn't come to the members of this 
21       committee.  And that's very upsetting to me because, 
22       in order to make a good decision, you need to have the 
23       information.  So the license was renewed, and since 
24       that date, there have been at least 26 more of these 
25       incident reports, which, to me, is very clear evidence 

00038
 1       that the terms of that renewal have not been 
 2       respected, and I think that that's very significant.  
 3       In our neighborhood, which is also in the 5th 
 4       District, we had a case where some neighbors came 
 5       here -- 
 6                 MR. PURNELL:  Mr. Chair, we're getting a 
 7       little -- 
 8                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  We are absolutely.  You know 
 9       what, you're providing factual concern in respect that 
10       you have concerns, but that's not what we have before 
11       us.  So I appreciate the concerns, I certainly respect 
12       your coming down, but ultimately we have police 
13       reports here.  We're only to abide by police reports 
14       that are noticed to the individual to provide 
15       adequate police reports that are filed.  Specifically, 
16       there are multiple reports, there's a typical CAD 
17       report, there is also license investigation report 
18       using police jargon called a PA-33.  Where the PA-33s 
19       are not adequately filed by the police department, we 
20       don't know it.  So it's the police department duty, 
21       and if you're not happy, speak to Captain Smith or 
22       write a letter to the chief.  
23                 ALDERMAN KOVAC:  I just wanted to follow up.  
24       My memory of the June meeting was there was some 
25       police reports, there also was significant 

00039
 1       neighborhood testimony, and Mr. Green had wanted to 
 2       apply for the license because of those neighborhood 
 3       concerns, he withdrew that, and Ms. Peavey --  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'm going to believe that 
 5       there was nothing in the police report, and here's 
 6       why.  We have in the police report now for this 
 7       particular establishment, Item No. 1 starts on June 
 8       1st.  Typically an applicant if they appear in June 
 9       puts in an application about six, eight weeks, seven 
10       weeks early, the police investigation starts being 
11       conducted at the point in which the application is put 
12       in.  Typically that's done at least four weeks.  The 
13       police investigation likely would have been done in 
14       May, the first police report that turns up here on our 
15       police report that we have now is June 1st of '08.
16                 In all likelihood, willing to believe that 
17       you had sort of that lapse.  We may have even taken 
18       the item up on the 10th, at which time there would 
19       have been -- a police investigation would have been 
20       done on June 1st.  However, the question remains would 
21       it have been duly written up, provided to Sergeant 
22       Ulickey, and duly noticed to Ms. Peavey.  Unlikely.  
23       I'm guessing we did not have any police report when 
24       you appeared before us.  We have a lot now, and that 
25       will be part of what we have before us.  But your 

00040
 1       concerns are expressed.  Mr. Purnell, is there 
 2       anything you wanted to ask of this particular witness 
 3       at this time?  
 4                 MR. PURNELL:  No.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  All right.  Next witness, 
 6       please.  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  Hello.  My name is Gordon 
 8       Kaufert, K-A-U-F-E-R-T, 2765 North Buffum.  I live two 
 9       houses from the bar, south of the bar.  I started 
10       having trouble when Mr. Green took over the place in 
11       May.  Every time I called the police, I wrote it down.  
12       May 4th, I called 911 at 1:30 in the morning, 200 
13       people fighting in the intersection after the bar 
14       closed.  May 12th, 10:30 p.m., I called regarding loud 
15       music, can't sleep, racing up and down the streets.  
16       And this is all I personally witnessed.  May 20th, at 
17       1:05 a.m., I was woken up from a sleep, and I sleep 
18       with a C-Pap machine, so I'm in a deep sleep, so if it 
19       wakes me up, it's got to be loud.
20                 I called regarding loud music, cars, fights, 
21       fight right in front of my house.  6/1/08, 12:30 a.m., 
22       fight broke out inside of the bar, two females causing 
23       a large fight outside and inside the bar.  The police 
24       department was there and the fire department, because 
25       there was injuries, and the police came and closed the 

00041
 1       bar at night.
 2                 This is all notes I took while I was half 
 3       asleep, so you got to bear with me here.  June 7th, 
 4       1:20 a.m., shots fired, called 911 and called the 
 5       police.  There was a fight in the intersection.  When 
 6       the police came, there was casings on my porch that 
 7       flew from the sidewalk.  June 7th, called police 
 8       regarding --  No.  June 10th, 12:45 a.m.  Woke up 
 9       again, loud music, cars, the bar had just let out, 
10       people going into the bar.  They're even loitering on 
11       my porch.  Called the police, came, they warned the 
12       tavern.
13                 And just recently on November 22nd, there 
14       was some people from the bar on my porch.  I asked 
15       them to leave.  They shot a beer bottle at me.  Almost 
16       hit me in the head, broke it, called the police.  The 
17       police seen it.  The people went back in the bar.  
18       When the police when there, there were so many people, 
19       and I couldn't really identify them, they all had like 
20       jeans, black coat on, so I really --  It was dark, so 
21       I couldn't really --  But the bottle missed my head by 
22       this much.  I was on my porch.  I took it as a form of 
23       intimidation because I'm always calling the police on 
24       them.  I told the police if they come back on my 
25       property I'm going to leave my pit bull out.  I don't 

00042
 1       care about the liability.  
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Kaufert, in terms of the 
 3       documentation that you have written there --  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  This is all taken the day I 
 5       called the police.  
 6                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are there additional 
 7       incidents in your notes there that you do not speak of 
 8       right here?  
 9                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  There's dates that I was 
10       either too groggy to write it.  And just to get a 
11       history, last year in the beginning of the year, I had 
12       five major surgeries for cancer, and starting in May I 
13       was just recuperating, and then they found out that I 
14       had the sleep apnea, so they had to put me on a C-Pap 
15       machine.  The main thing was I needed my rest, and I 
16       didn't get any.  For months to this day I don't get 
17       any.  
18                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If you had to estimate the 
19       number of times since spring in which you contacted 
20       the police department as a result of what you believe 
21       to be individual patrons of this establishment, what 
22       would be your estimate?  
23                 THE WITNESS:  I believe I witnessed it at 
24       least 25 times.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  You've contacted about 25 

00043
 1       times?  
 2                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And because of your 
 4       proximity, you would say that these are individuals 
 5       that are all patrons of this establishment?  
 6                 THE WITNESS:  The bar don't get busy until 
 7       after midnight, and it's only open until 2:00, so 
 8       there's something weird about that, too.  At midnight, 
 9       they all come.  It's like --  It's just crazy.  And 
10       our neighborhood do have challenges, but since Mr. 
11       Green took the place over --  I've been owning that 
12       house for 10 years.  I never had trouble with the 
13       Groovin Inn until Mr. Green took it over.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Is it possible for us to 
15       receive your notes as part of our record in this 
16       proceeding?  
17                 THE WITNESS:  Sure.  
18                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Do you want to at least --  
19       Do you want to just take an opportunity to take a 
20       minute or two and allow Mr. Purnell to see that.  
21                 THE WITNESS:  Sure.  
22                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Unless you want to do that, 
23       I will provide you an opportunity -- we'll receive a 
24       copy of that will be part of record, we'll have that 
25       mailed to you prior to our next hearing.  You may not 

00044
 1       be able to subject Mr. Kaufert to cross-examine, but 
 2       if you have issues that you have perhaps with his 
 3       documentation now, I'll allow you an opportunity to at 
 4       least speak and address those.  
 5                 MR. PURNELL:  That's fine.  But I do have an 
 6       opportunity to cross-examine him right now, right? 
 7                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Yes.  What I wanted to do, 
 8       though, is if we could --  If you want to get that 
 9       from him, Tobie.What we'll do is we'll have Alderman 
10       Zielinski sill move to make --  We're going to make 
11       the notes of Mr. Kaufert part of our --  Alderman 
12       Zielinski would move to make the notes of Mr. Kaufert 
13       relating to the times in which he has contacted the 
14       police department and his notes relating to that part 
15       of our official record in this proceeding, and hearing 
16       no objection to that, so ordered.  And then when we 
17       finished doing that here, I'll open it up to questions 
18       by committee.  
19                 THE WITNESS:  It's in a work notebook.  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Every alderman knows how 
21       that goes.  Mr. Kaufert, we are constantly driving 
22       through our districts, taking notes on street lights 
23       out, potholes in the streets no matter what, and so 
24       sometimes I'm grabbing for any scribble of paper I can 
25       to jog notes, and I'm certain sometimes the police 

00045
 1       department will do that, as well, too.  We fully 
 2       understand how that goes.  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  I even wrote the operator name 
 4       down, the operator number I spoke to that night.  
 5                 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI:  While this gentleman is 
 6       looking for his papers, I'd just like to chime in for 
 7       the people that are listening to this.  What he's 
 8       doing is very wise.  Write down the operator number, 
 9       because oftentimes it's a case where I'll have 
10       constituents call up say I called four times, five 
11       times, Tony, they'll maintain a log, but they don't 
12       have the operator number.  I'll call up the 2nd 
13       District, and they'll say we only have one or two on 
14       record.  So I tell my constituents write down the 
15       operator number, the date and the time, and when you 
16       do that, if the operator didn't properly record that 
17       information, we can go back, listen to those tapes.  
18       And we've been able to issue warning nuisance letters 
19       based on that information, even though it wasn't 
20       properly recorded the first time.  So whenever you 
21       call up about a property with regard to potential 
22       nuisance activity, maintain a log like this gentleman.  
23       He handled everything perfectly.  He's got the 
24       operator number, the date, the time, and the reason 
25       for the call.  

00046
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Are there 
 2       questions by committee members of this witness?  Mr. 
 3       Stephens, questions?  
 4                 MR. STEPHENS:  No, Mr. Chairman.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Purnell, any questions?  
 6                 MR. PURNELL:  I have a couple, Mr. Chairman.  
 7       Mr. Kaufert.  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
 9                 MR. PURNELL:  You indicated that you started 
10       having trouble there around May; is that right?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  May, May 4th was my first 
12       incident.  
13                 MR. PURNELL:  That was your first call, 
14       right?  
15                 THE WITNESS:  Right.  
16                 MR. PURNELL:  Now, you've indicated here 
17       that you've called, though, about 25 times since then; 
18       is that right? 
19                 THE WITNESS:  Right.  
20                 MR. PURNELL:  May, June, July, August --  
21                 THE WITNESS:  It was numerous times in a 
22       month.  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  25 times a month?  
24                 THE WITNESS:  No.  Numerous times in a month 
25       I would call the police.  

00047
 1                 MR. PURNELL:  Now, do you leave your name 
 2       every time you call?  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  Every time I call I leave my 
 4       name, number, contact number.  
 5                 MR. PURNELL:  You said that on the 10th of 
 6       June about 12:30 at night, you called up for allowed 
 7       music complaint, right?  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  Right.  
 9                 MR. PURNELL:  Now, would it surprise you to 
10       hear that the police showed up and they said they did 
11       not hear any loud music and they attempted to contact 
12       the caller but they could not?  
13                 THE WITNESS:  I can't address what the 
14       officer did, what they tried to do, but I always leave 
15       my name and number.  
16                 MR. PURNELL:  Then you called again at 1:28; 
17       is that right?  
18                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
19                 MR. PURNELL:  Would it surprise you to hear 
20       that the police said that when they showed up they did 
21       not hear any loud music, but they did make contact 
22       with you that time?  
23                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  The police called me 
24       back or got in contact back with me very few times.  
25                 MR. PURNELL:  You met with Ms. Peavey and 

00048
 1       even Alderwoman Coggs, correct?  
 2                 THE WITNESS:  At the 5th District, correct.  
 3                 MR. PURNELL:  But never before that?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  I knew her.  We met like on 
 5       the block.  When they had a meeting at the bar, they 
 6       came, you know. 
 7                 MR. PURNELL:  And that was after the May 
 8       when Miguel started when you started getting angry, 
 9       right?  
10                 THE WITNESS:  Right.  
11                 MR. PURNELL:  Is it true that you told these 
12       folks that you were going to do whatever you had to do 
13       that you were going to get that bar claimed a nuisance 
14       and shut it down?  
15                 THE WITNESS:  No.  
16                 MR. PURNELL:  You never said that?  
17                 THE WITNESS:  Nope.  
18                 MR. PURNELL:  You're sure about that?
19                 THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  I've seen the note that 
20       Ms. Peavey wrote that I called the police four times, 
21       and that's a lie.  
22                 MR. PURNELL:  I'm going to remind you one 
23       more time that you're under oath.  
24                 THE WITNESS:  I understand that.  
25                 MR. PURNELL:  So, again, you said that you 

00049
 1       called the police about 25 times since Mr. Green 
 2       opened up in May, right?  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  About 25 times since he took 
 4       over.  Otherwise, I never had a problem with the 
 5       tavern.  
 6                 MR. PURNELL:  Did you ever call the police 
 7       and tell them that there was drug dealing going on 
 8       inside the bar?  
 9                 THE WITNESS:  I said outside and inside the 
10       bar.  
11                 MR. PURNELL:  Have you ever been inside the 
12       bar?  
13                 THE WITNESS:  Nope.  But I seen it outside 
14       the bar, and I seen them go inside the bar, so that 
15       would constitute inside/outside the bar.  And there 
16       was plenty of drug busts there already.  
17                 MR. PURNELL:  But you've never been inside 
18       the bar?  
19                 THE WITNESS:  Nope.
20                 MR. PURNELL:  Did you call the police on the 
21       31st of October to complain about shots fired?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  They got my notes, but I got 
23       everything.  I called here.  What date was it?  
24                 MR. PURNELL:  October 31st.  
25                 THE WITNESS:  No, not that I wrote down 

00050
 1       anyway.  But there was times I called the police, I 
 2       wasn't really with it.  But I didn't call the police 
 3       until I looked out the window and actually seen it 
 4       happen.  
 5                 MR. PURNELL:  Nothing further.  
 6                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Just a follow-up comment.  
 7       And Mr. Purnell, I appreciate the job that you do for 
 8       your client, but I will just tell you from practical 
 9       experience that the fact that we have a police 
10       department that shows up on a call for police service 
11       and literally says that they're not able to ascertain 
12       loud music means absolutely nothing.  I can go to your 
13       house tonight, play doorbell ditch to your house 
14       probably five times, run off on the block, have you 
15       get up, look out the window, see nobody there, look 
16       around, go back to bed, five minutes later, run back, 
17       play doorbell ditch with you again, have that go on 
18       and back and forth, that would be the lowest priority 
19       call.  The police department would show up about two 
20       hours later saying we see nobody in area, and 
21       ultimately, it doesn't mean that I wasn't there waking 
22       you up in your sleep over and over and over again.
23                 MR. PURNELL:  I understand that.  But we're 
24       looking at actual calls when someone called and they 
25       responded.  That's all.  

00051
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'll just tell you as 
 2       somebody who votes on this side of the aisle and who's 
 3       been on this committee longer than every other person 
 4       on here combined times five, is that ultimately when 
 5       I get a neighbor who comes forward and provides me 
 6       testimony about how they've been woken, how they fear 
 7       for their life and hear gunshots, it's worth its 
 8       weight in gold, and they're testifying that under 
 9       oath.  Whether or not the police department is able to 
10       show up at whatever time they're able to show up and 
11       verify that, especially when I get corroboration from 
12       neighbor after neighbor after neighbor.  I'm letting 
13       you know that.  I appreciate your pointing your point 
14       out.  Based on the fact that somebody gets awakened 
15       from their sleep and hears 20 minutes worth of loud 
16       music, if the police department shows up 45 minutes 
17       later, it doesn't mean that there wasn't loud music, 
18       and it doesn't mean it's not disturbing and shouldn't 
19       take place.  I'm not even going to entertain that.  
20       Frankly, that's my two cents, and I'm the one who 
21       votes.  
22                 THE APPLICANT:  Can I ask him a question?
23                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Sure.
24                 THE APPLICANT:  Do you recall the meeting 
25       that we had on the street?  

00052
 1                 THE WITNESS:  Vaguely.  It was a long time 
 2       ago.  
 3                 THE APPLICANT:  Oh.  And do you recall what 
 4       you told me?  
 5                 THE WITNESS:  Regarding?  
 6                 THE APPLICANT:  What your job was.  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  What my job is.  I'm an 
 8       engineer.  
 9                 THE APPLICANT:  No.  What you told me your 
10       job was, the reason that --  
11                 THE WITNESS:  I said ever time I see 
12       something happen I'm going to call the police, and 
13       every time I see something with my own eyes I was 
14       going to call the police.  
15                 THE APPLICANT:  And what else?  
16                 THE WITNESS:  That's it.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ma'am, you can say 
18       specifically, if you believe specifically, you can say 
19       I believe he told me that he was going to try to shut 
20       me down.  If that's what it is, state it for the 
21       record.  
22                 THE APPLICANT:  He did tell me in front of 
23       the alderperson.  
24                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Specifically, did he tell 
25       you what?  

00053
 1                 THE APPLICANT:  That he was going to make 
 2       sure that the Groovin Inn became a nuisance property 
 3       because he had been calling and -- 
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Right, I did say that part.  
 5                 THE APPLICANT:  Okay then, he did say that.  
 6       He was going to be the one to make sure that the 
 7       Groovin Inn got closed down, and she was a witness, 
 8       and he just -- it that because he didn't give a 
 9       hootinanny or whatever it was about it, you know.  I 
10       was trying to reach out to him when all of this stuff 
11       first started.  I was operating the Groovin Inn, Mr. 
12       Green wasn't operating.  
13                 THE WITNESS:  No, you were not at that time.  
14                 THE APPLICANT:  He's only a bartender.  I 
15       hadn't even got my license then.  He did tell me that.
16                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Appreciate your questioning 
17       it.  Other questions by committee?  Mr. Purnell, 
18       anything else?  
19                 MR. PURNELL:  No, thanks. 
20                 THE WITNESS:  I got one more incident I 
21       forgot.  It was about a month-and-a-half ago.  Me and 
22       the wife was sitting.  I was outside because the 
23       traffic.  I didn't get home until quarter to one from 
24       work.  I was on the porch, so nobody -- so they just 
25       keep going past my property, and an altercation broke 

00054
 1       out at the house next to me, and shots were fired, 
 2       went through my window, almost hit my wife, missed her 
 3       by a foot, and that is unacceptable.  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Did you call the police on 
 5       that particular instance?  
 6                 THE WITNESS:  Yes, I did, yes, I did.  
 7                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are there questions of 
 8       committee members that that maybe elicited?  Mr. 
 9       Purnell, go ahead.  
10                 MR. PURNELL:  You said that this fight where 
11       the gunshot happened at the house next door to you?  
12                 THE WITNESS:  No.  It happened on the 
13       sidewalk when the bar let out at the house next to me 
14       on the sidewalk.  
15                 MR. PURNELL:  What time?  
16                 THE WITNESS:  About 1:00, almost 2:00, about 
17       1:35 a.m.  It was about a month-and-a-half ago.  
18                 MR. PURNELL:  Did you see the people who 
19       were in the fight leave the bar?  
20                 THE WITNESS:  Yes, I did.  That's why I went 
21       out to my porch.  I just got home from work half an 
22       hour earlier.  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  That's all.
24                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Finished?  
25                 MR. PURNELL:  I am.  Thank you.

00055
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Adam, anything?  
 2                 MR. STEPHENS:  No, sir.  
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Were there any other 
 4       individuals who were sworn in in opposition?  If you 
 5       could relinquish your seats at least in the front row, 
 6       I'd appreciate it. What I'd like to do is there were a 
 7       number of individuals who were here that I believe are 
 8       supporters, is that correct, if you could take the 
 9       seats in the front row here, please, only those 
10       individuals who were previously sworn in.  To the 
11       woman in the yellow purse, we'll just take you right 
12       up to the microphone first because you were here 
13       first.  We'll do the same thing, name and address.  
14                 MR. PURNELL:  I would offer to bring these 
15       folks back if you'd like to adjourn this for now and 
16       bring them back at the next opportunity.  
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If that's acceptable with 
18       you.  
19                 AUDIENCE MEMBER:  We're fine with it.  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Is there anyone who thinks 
21       it's possible you may not be able to come back?  If 
22       so, I'd be happy to take your testimony.
23                 AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I just personally feel my 
24       statements on the matter would be needed.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If you're not sure that 

00056
 1       you'll be able to make it back, I'd be happy to hear 
 2       from you.  It may be not that everyone --  Maybe not 
 3       everyone is willing to do it, but if somebody's not 
 4       certain, we'll be happy to take you right now.  If 
 5       you're not certain, just walk up, because if you 
 6       don't, I'm going to call it an adjournment.  
 7                 MR. PURNELL:  If you'd like to go ahead and 
 8       speak, you can speak right now.  
 9                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I don't want indecision, I 
10       just want, "I'm not sure, boom, my name is Suzie 
11       Smith."
12                 THE WITNESS:  My name is Lorraine Luckett.  
13       I stay at 2744 North Buffum.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  2744, how close is that in 
15       proximity to this?  
16                 THE WITNESS:  That's about four houses 
17       south.  And I can honestly say we are in the River 
18       West area.  There is also Club Timbuktu that falls 
19       between Booth and Holton on Center Street, and they 
20       stay like -- they take up Buffum, too, because they 
21       can't take up Holton because that's the main street.  
22       Their cars come from, their traffic come from their 
23       own club, which is actually Club Timbuktu.  Groovin 
24       Inn is just a tavern.  You also have a bar that falls 
25       on Buffum and Locust, which is exactly a block radius 

00057
 1       away from the Groovin Inn, so that traffic come from 
 2       there.
 3                 And everything that happens at night -- 
 4       well, that's claimed to happen at night also happens 
 5       in the daytime, because we are on Buffum between 
 6       Hadley and Center, which grass is really not on 
 7       anyone's property due to the fact that their yard 
 8       isn't fenced in.  So it doesn't happen due to the fact 
 9       we have people coming out of the Groove Inn messing up 
10       people yards and just doing all that.  We have a 
11       ghetto environment on Buffum and Hadley regardless.  
12       Regardless of what happens between 9:00 a.m. when the 
13       bar opens up until 2:00 when it closes, that doesn't 
14       help, because that don't bring like a good setting, 
15       because we have the same thing that happens in the 
16       daytime, but nothing really occurs at night that's too 
17       much different from the morning.  What stops them from 
18       not calling the police in the a.m. when all this 
19       occurs and people are sitting on their porches then, 
20       because people sit on every porch on Buffum regardless 
21       if it's the day or night.
22                 So that doesn't happen from the people 
23       coming out of the Groovin Inn, it happens in the 
24       daytime, too.  No police is called then.  So now that 
25       this tavern has came up and everybody who in the 

00058
 1       Riverwest area goes to the Groovin Inn now is such a 
 2       problem?  That happens in the daytime, and no police 
 3       is called.  There's bottles thrown in their yard while 
 4       they're sitting on their property.  No police is 
 5       called, no one's asked to pick nothing up.  Now, all 
 6       of a sudden it's just like a problem now that Mr. 
 7       Green has taken over?  That's not the case.
 8                 I've been staying on the east side since 
 9       1993.  I am 21 years of age, and I know on that one 
10       block that it doesn't just happen at night.  And it's 
11       not that much that happens at night.  Between the 
12       cruising and stuff, that's going to happen.  You have 
13       three different bars that's letting out at the same 
14       exact time, so not everyone is going to be able to 
15       vacate the premises at the same time.  Although, we're 
16       on the east east side -- I'm going to keep saying that 
17       -- we are on Buffum and Hadley between Buffum and 
18       Center, and people do what they do in the a.m. halfway 
19       what they do at night.  The police isn't called then, 
20       so now all of a sudden that Mr. Green has taken 
21       over now is such a nuisance.  It happens in the 
22       daytime, also.  
23                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  If I may ask you, first off, 
24       the spelling of your last name.  
25                 THE WITNESS:  L-U-C-K-E-T-T.  

00059
 1                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ms. Luckett, how long have 
 2       you resided at the particular address that you are at 
 3       right now?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Four-and-a-half years.  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Some of the testimony from a 
 6       couple of the other neighbors is that there was a 
 7       noticeable difference on the block from the time prior 
 8       to Mr. Green coming into involvement in the 
 9       establishment to after when that occurred.  Are you 
10       telling me that you noticed no difference whatsoever?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  I'm not saying I don't notice 
12       a difference.  I just feel that the nuisance --  It's 
13       three bars open, and I'm asking people to consider 
14       that there is traffic coming from Locust to Hadley, 
15       from Holton to Buffum, and from the Groovin Inn.  
16                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I understand, but what I'm 
17       posing to you is this:  I assume all those bars were 
18       operating prior to last spring?  
19                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  So a year ago, a year ago it 
21       would have been prior to Mr. Green coming into the 
22       operation, all those bars would have been open?  
23                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
24                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The summer previous to that 
25       all the bars would have been open?  

00060
 1                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The testimony that's been 
 3       provided is that there was a noticeable change.  What 
 4       I'm saying is if that is indeed the case, you would 
 5       have still had the other two bars open and operating, 
 6       and what has been spoken to thus far by previous 
 7       neighbors is the problems were not near as many, it 
 8       was not noticeable, there weren't gunshots, this was 
 9       not happening on a repeated basis.  What I'm asking 
10       you is --  
11                 THE WITNESS:  That's not true, that's not 
12       true.  Club Timbuktu, before the Groovin even got to 
13       that point where everyone was coming to the Groovin 
14       Inn, they were at Club Timbuktu.  They had more 
15       problems than the Groovin Inn have ever seen.  It's 
16       not like --  There wasn't a change.  It was like 
17       Timbuktu was the problem at first, and now they're 
18       making it as of the Groovin, because Timbuktu, I 
19       guess, don't have as many people coming anymore.  The 
20       problem isn't the Groovin Inn, the problem is the 
21       neighborhood period.  It's not the Groovin Inn that's 
22       bringing all the people out and starting up, because 
23       they know how to get out to their cars -- sometimes 
24       they don't -- but they know how to get out to their 
25       cars and go home.  We also have two other bars that 

00061
 1       don't have the same security guards that conduct 
 2       people into their cars to go home.
 3                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Questions by committee?  
 4       Alderwoman Coggs.
 5                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  This is less of a 
 6       question and just more of a comment because of the 
 7       comment that was made about it being ghetto.  I think 
 8       it was a point that we made at the meeting at the 
 9       police station, as well.  Yes, there are areas within 
10       the district that have challenges, and Buffum is one 
11       of those areas, with or without the Groovin Inn, but I 
12       think we must steer clear of stereotypes.  And also 
13       know that yes, those challenges were there before the 
14       Groovin Inn got an upsweep in people, and some of 
15       those challenges may even be there if the Groovin Inn 
16       wasn't there, but our question is but for the Groovin 
17       Inn being there, would these things have happened, 
18       what causal factors are connections between the 
19       Groovin Inn's method and management of operations, and 
20       what's happening to that neighborhood?
21                 So to say it's already bad, that doesn't 
22       answer the question we had need to answer, which is 
23       but for the Groovin Inn would these things have 
24       happened.  So I respect the fact that yes, it's a 
25       challenged neighborhood, I just want to steer away 

00062
 1       from the stereotypes and all of that.  And licensees 
 2       have to take responsibility for what takes place 
 3       within their establishment and to a great degree what 
 4       takes place outside of it.
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  Alderman Kovac.
 6                 ALDERMAN KOVAC:  I live six blocks from Club 
 7       Timbuktu, I live seven blocks from the Groovin Inn, 
 8       and I represent Club Timbuktu, and I do hear some 
 9       complaints.  Not many, actually, just one about noise 
10       and a lot of people being parked, but I haven't heard 
11       anything about the level of what we're hearing now 
12       about Groovin Inn in the last few months about Club 
13       Timbuktu.  Unless you're telling me that you thought 
14       there were people parked on Buffum and you'd seen them 
15       come from Timbuktu in years past, is that what   
16       you're --  
17                 THE WITNESS:  I could say that there are 
18       people that go to Timbuktu, the get out their cars and 
19       walk down Center towards Timbuktu.  You got people 
20       that get out of their cars on Buffum and walk towards 
21       Locust to go to their bar.  Like one of the people who 
22       came up here to oppose, they stay right there on the 
23       corner of Center.  The stuff that's happening in front 
24       of your house could have been from the people that's 
25       coming to Timbuktu.  That's what I'm trying to put.

00063
 1                 ALDERMAN KOVAC:  You're saying based on the 
 2       direction they're walking, it's possible, but not that
 3       you're sure?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  No.  I'm sure that I've seen 
 5       like numerous of nights that people get out of their 
 6       cars, they park between in the middle of Center and 
 7       Hadley going towards Timbuktu.  Because, basically, 
 8       Groovin Inn people basically park up and down Hadley 
 9       and some of Buffum and a little of bit of Locust Park.  
10       But as of the disturbance in front of people who are 
11       saying they're having disturbance in front of their 
12       house, those people mainly do come from either 
13       Timbuktu --  Some of them come from the Groovin Inn.  
14       The backing up and passing them, yes, that happens.
15                 I can be on my porch across the street 
16       arguing with my child's father, and they will call the 
17       police on me, so you can't honestly say that it's the 
18       Groovin Inn that's bringing it, and Timbuktu people 
19       who park in front of her house.  And basically you 
20       can't park in front of her house because she has 
21       a truck, she has a lot of cars.  You can't park in 
22       front of her house.  You can walk past, but you can't 
23       park in front of her house.  Just like you can't park 
24       in front of our house, and we have our own vehicles 
25       parked in front of it.  So half of the people that's 

00064
 1       making complaints, you can't really park in 
 2       front of their house, so they're not missing a parking 
 3       spot.  And they are given a driveway in the back, 
 4       we're given --
 5                 Basically we're given our ways of parking 
 6       where no one can take our parking spot because we're 
 7       in our house at 1:30, 2:00.  When the bar really gets 
 8       to starting, we're there already, so our cars are 
 9       there.  All they're in our parking spot, I can't park, 
10       no, because you are in your parking spot.  And as of 
11       me saying that oh, she didn't get her parking spot, 
12       she really had to double-park, I can't say that, 
13       because that probably did happen that night.  But 
14       as of the house that stays directly on the corner, 
15       they are there, and they have their parking spot, so 
16       it's no nuisance in front of your house unless they're 
17       walking past.
18                 And someone yelling saying they have to use  
19       the bathroom, it's an open field right there.  That 
20       happens.  But Timbuktu brings a crowd, the club on 
21       Buffum and Locust brings a crowd.  Groovin Inn also 
22       brings a crowd, but it's not like it's just the 
23       Groovin Inn, it's other clubs around.  That's 
24       basically what I want to put in.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Are there questions by 

00065
 1       committee members?  Mr. Stephens?
 2                 MR. STEPHENS:  Do you patronize this 
 3       premise, do you patronize the Groovin Inn?  
 4                 THE WITNESS:  Like for the Groovin Inn?  
 5                 MR. STEPHENS:  Are you a customer there?  
 6                 THE WITNESS:  Between Sunday and Wednesday, 
 7       because Thursday I can't get in because it's 25 and 
 8       over.  
 9                 MR. STEPHENS:  So four days a week you go to 
10       the Groovin Inn?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  Not all four days, but those 
12       are the only days I'm able to get in due to my age.  
13                 MR. STEPHENS:  How often do you go to the 
14       bar on a weekly basis?  
15                 THE WITNESS:  Tuesday is half price night, 
16       so I'm there, Wednesday -- 
17                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  She's an economical drinker.  
18       Nothing wrong with that.  
19                 THE WITNESS:  So yes, I'm there.  Maybe 
20       Tuesday and Sundays.  
21                 MR. STEPHENS:  Twice a week?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  
23                 MR. STEPHENS:  How do you know Mr. Green?  
24                 THE WITNESS:  Just seeing him like come to 
25       the bar like early in the morning, make sure that 

00066
 1       everything is straight from the night before, 
 2       something like that.  We hold conversations.  He keeps 
 3       in touch with the people on the block.  It's not like 
 4       he just don't --  He'll knock on your door and ask you 
 5       was there a problem from last night that you didn't 
 6       agree with.  He would.  He keeps in touch with the 
 7       people on the block.  All the new stuff that's coming 
 8       up I really don't know too much about, because he 
 9       actually contacts people on that side of the Groovin 
10       Inn, it's the house behind and like the next four 
11       houses, he actually will come to your door and ask you 
12       was there something that went last night that you 
13       didn't agree with, what could we do to make changes.
14                 Now, if they don't make their opinions on 
15       what they want to happen, then what could he do.  But 
16       I know him personally just off the street, him talking 
17       to the residents in the neighborhood, asking them what 
18       could he do to change or what happened the night 
19       before that they didn't agree with.  
20                 MR. STEPHENS:  So you don't have a social 
21       relationship with him, you're not friends with him?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  No, not as friends like we 
23       just go drink together, no.  
24                 MR. STEPHENS:  Does ever give you drinks?  
25                 THE WITNESS:  No.  

00067
 1                 MR. STEPHENS:  Thank you.  
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, ma'am.  Is there 
 3       anyone who does not believe that they'd be able to 
 4       come back that feels the need to testify now?   
 5       There's three others.  You'll be happy to come back.  
 6       Okay, thank you.  Go ahead, ma'am.
 7                 THE WITNESS:  My name is Doris Mosley, 
 8       M-O-S-L-E-Y.  My address is 2803 North Buffum.  
 9                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Approximately, how close is 
10       that to this?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  Right next door.  
12                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Please, proceed, ma'am. 
13                 THE WITNESS:  I want to let the courts know 
14       I don't see a whole lot of activity that I'm hearing 
15       that the people saying since he done brought the age 
16       group up to 25 and older.  Now, when it was just 21, I 
17       seen a lot of, you know, activity, but it wasn't 
18       activity that I actually go and run and tell someone 
19       about, but it was uncontrolled.  But now that he moved 
20       it up to the age of 25 and older, I don't hear a whole 
21       lot, I don't see a whole lot.  I can look right 
22       outside my window, look straight at the bar door, 
23       looking back on the bar.  That's how close I am from 
24       the Groovin Inn.  And with me, no, I don't go to bars, 
25       no, I don't drink, no, I don't smoke.  I don't do 

00068
 1       nothing. 
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, ma'am.  Are there 
 3       questions by committee members of this witness?  Mr. 
 4       Stephens, anything?  
 5                 MR. STEPHENS:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Chair.  
 6       Ms. Mosley, you said since he brought up the age 
 7       group.  Who is he?  
 8                 THE WITNESS:  Miguel.  I don't know his last 
 9       name.  I just call him Miguel.  
10                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Miguel Green?  
11                 MR. STEPHENS:  Miguel?  
12                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  
13                 MR. STEPHENS:  Do you work for Miguel?  
14                 THE WITNESS:  No, no.  
15                 MR. STEPHENS:  You've never done any 
16       cleaning in the bar?  
17                 THE WITNESS:  No, no.  
18                 MR. STEPHENS:  Do you have any kind of 
19       social relationship with Mr. Green?  
20                 THE WITNESS:  No, I do not.  Yes, he come by 
21       and ask me was there any problem with my lawn and 
22       stuff like that.  
23                 MR. STEPHENS:  Thank you.  
24                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  You have something, a 
25       question that you have?  

00069
 1                 THE APPLICANT:  No question for her.  I'd 
 2       like to say something.  They're saying Mr. Green.  The 
 3       bar is Mrs. Peavey's, Mr. Green works for Mrs. 
 4       Peavey --  
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And I appreciate that.  
 6                 THE APPLICANT:  -- as a bartender.  Whatever 
 7       Mr. Green does, Ms. Peavey tells him.  He talks it 
 8       over with Ms. Peavey.  And I stated that when I wrote 
 9       to the captain over there and told him that in the 
10       beginning.  Okay?  
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ms. Peavey, I appreciate 
12       that.  I'm just telling you it's supporters of your 
13       bar that are saying that Mr. Green is running the 
14       show.  I'm just letting you know that.
15                 THE APPLICANT:  I'm explaining for the 
16       record right now.  He is there.  He's very helpful.  
17                 MR. PURNELL:  I have questions for this 
18       witness.  Things may have gotten misconstrued.  On the 
19       question from the city attorney, you said that he 
20       raised it up to 25 on the weekends.  You had no idea 
21       who actually made that decision, do you?  
22                 THE WITNESS:  Miguel Green.  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  You're guessing.  You don't 
24       know if it was Miguel or Ms. Peavey, do you? 
25                 THE WITNESS:  Exactly.  No, I do not.

00070
 1                 MR. PURNELL:  You just know thayt the bar 
 2       changed its policy to go to 25, right?  
 3                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 4                 MR. PURNELL:  Thank you.
 5                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I have a question for you.  
 6       You indicated that Miguel Green has come by and talked 
 7       to neighbors to inquire about whether there's 
 8       problems?  
 9                 THE WITNESS:  Yes, he have.  He have come to 
10       my door and asked me did I have problems, and, you know, 
11       he going to have a meeting.  One time he did have a 
12       neighbor, and I attend to it, but didn't no one go but 
13       me and my husband and about two more other people.  To 
14       me, it really wasn't no meeting.  Then the second time 
15       there was a meeting, it was at the police department 
16       on District 5, and I went to there, and after that, 
17       there wasn't no more  meeting I went to.
18                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  How did you know about a 
19       meeting?  Did you receive a letter?
20                 THE WITNESS:  Yeah, I recieved a letter both 
21       times.
22                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  There were letters that came 
23       from Miguel?
24                 THE WITNESS:  Yes.  That was the first 
25       meeting that he asked me to come to.  And I told him 

00071
 1       during the time he asked me, I say I don't really go 
 2       to bars enough times, but there was something required,
 3       if you need me to, I will come no problem, but I don't 
 4       have no complaints or nothing.  They don't bother me, 
 5       no one on my lawn, no bottles, no nothing.  Really 
 6       ain't got no complaints.  
 7                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Committee members, there 
 8       were two letters that are on Pages 363 and 364 of our 
 9       agenda.  One is a letter dated October 21st, 2008 
10       signed my Miguel Green, "Dear Neighbors of the Groovin 
11       Inn," that has a tag on it that says Exhibit A, there 
12       is a September 16th, 2008 meeting, "Fellow Neighbors 
13       of the Groovin Inn," signed Miguel, with a phone 
14       number 640-1148, that's Exhibit B.  I would at this 
15       time entertain a motion by Alderman Kovac to make 
16       those two respective letters part of our official 
17       record in this proceeding, and hearing no objection, 
18       so ordered.
19                 I, unfortunately, don't have a hard copy to 
20       that effect.  What I will just say is that there was a 
21       letter, for example, that came on October 21st that 
22       says, "Dear Neighbors of the Groovin Inn.  I, Miguel 
23       Green, truly apologize for the inconvenience that the 
24       tavern has caused the neighborhood.  I thought that I 
25       handled your initial concerns, but changes I made were 

00072
 1       not enough.  I asked that you give me a chance to try 
 2       to make the situation better.  It seems that the 
 3       biggest problem happens on the weekends, so I'm 
 4       installing these new policies."  Then he goes on to 
 5       enumerate five policies.  Is that a copy of one of the 
 6       letters you're speaking of, ma'am?  
 7                 THE WITNESS:  That was one of the letters 
 8       after we had the meeting at the 5th District.  After 
 9       we had that meeting at the 5th District, then he gave 
10       them letters out.  I moved, that was the 28th, and I 
11       got the first letter from him during like September, 
12       about September the 5th or 6th.  He stated to me --  
13                 During the letter I did receive the very, 
14       very first letter I got, that was the 5th or 6th, 
15       one of them two days, and I met with him into his 
16       place, which is the bar, and after that, didn't nobody 
17       go but me and my husband.  Then the second time we 
18       received a letter saying holding a meeting at the 5th 
19       District.  I received that letter, and after we did 
20       the 5th District and everything, I received another 
21       one, that was like a couple of days after the 5th 
22       District, that's when he explained that he going to -- 
23       the age group is going up, it's no longer 21.  That 
24       day after that, I received another -- this time, they 
25       sent me another letter saying to come to this meeting 

00073
 1       here.  
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Did he ever convey that he 
 3       was going to make these changes because of concerns 
 4       that were being expressed?  
 5                 THE WITNESS:  Yeah, he did stated that. 
 6       That's when we was at 5th District when he did stated 
 7       that he going to move the age group up to 25, him and 
 8       that lady right there.  
 9                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Was she present at that 
10       meeting?  
11                 THE WITNESS:  Yes, she was, at 5th District.  
12                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  Mr. Chair.  
13                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I just have an additional 
14       question.  Ms. Peavey, do you know why an individual 
15       who is nothing more than a bartender at your 
16       establishment would be sending out letter after letter 
17       to residents indicating that he apologizes for the 
18       inconvenience the tavern has caused to the 
19       neighborhood and goes on and on about how he's going 
20       to make these changes?  He says specifically, "I, 
21       Miguel, am installing these new policies."  He doesn't 
22       say that we are or that the ownership.  Why would an 
23       individual who is nothing more than a bartender take 
24       the ownership lead of sending out letters to 
25       neighbors, even to the point of saying I will attempt 

00074
 1       to stop my purchase of the building from Ms. Peavey 
 2       and will step down to allow her to sell the building 
 3       to someone more qualified if I can't make the 
 4       neighborhood more comfortable?  
 5                 THE APPLICANT:  Because Mr. Robakowski, the 
 6       PLO, he suggested that we change the age.  I told 
 7       Miguel I know everybody that lives in the 
 8       neighborhood, I've been there since '69.  I gave him 
 9       permission to write the people a letter and go from 
10       door to door so that he can get to know them.  He has 
11       written three letters.  The first one was a meet and 
12       greet one we had before I got my license that Mrs. 
13       Coggs sent out for everybody to show up for him to get 
14       his license.  I said write a letter and invite 
15       everybody to come to a meeting.
16                 The second letter was --  Well, you have 
17       them.  He wrote it to apologize to the neighbors.  I 
18       mean those are his words.  I didn't tell him what to 
19       say.  I wrote two letters.  Both went to Captain Smith 
20       over here, and I'm sure he has both of them.  And I 
21       also told him in my letter before theirs was passed 
22       out what I was doing.  That's all I can say.  She 
23       knows.  She was in on that meeting, the first one and 
24       the second one.  
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  The only issue that I have 

00075
 1       with this is I have a legislative assistant who will 
 2       at times pen letters for me, as well, too, but he 
 3       doesn't go on and say I'm going to do X, Y, and Z.  He
 4       responds and writes a letter as if, though, the 
 5       alderman who's in charge whose signature actually goes 
 6       on it is the person who is doing the penmanship of 
 7       that.  
 8                 THE APPLICANT:  I know everybody in the 
 9       neighborhood.  
10                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Ma'am, I will call on you, I 
11       promise you, when I'm done talking.  I will say Ms. 
12       Peavey, and then you speak back to me, okay. 
13                 THE APPLICANT:  I will.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I don't dispute that, but 
15       what I will tell you is that the allegation here is 
16       such that you have an individual who was actually 
17       running the day-to-day operations and that you were 
18       not involved in the day-to-day operations.  
19                 THE APPLICANT:  Can I say something?  
20                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No.  I'll ask you a 
21       question.  I mean, that is what is being alleged by 
22       the police department, and I'm telling you, you got 
23       letters that speak to that, you got neighbors that are 
24       already testifying on your behave who are already 
25       talking about how Miguel is running this.  Who's doing 

00076
 1       this?  Miguel.  I just -- I don't know --  It doesn't 
 2       seem on the surface to me that you had a very strong 
 3       stake in the day-to-day operations.  It was conveyed 
 4       that Miguel is a manager, but it's not even that he's 
 5       that, he's just a quote, unquote "bartender."  You 
 6       know why that is?  Because right now, lawfully if he 
 7       were a manager, he'd have to literally have a 
 8       manager's license, which I'm going to guess --  Ms. 
 9       Grill, do we have an individual by the name of Miguel 
10       Green that has a manager's license?
11                 MS. GRILL:  I just checked that before my 
12       computer network went down, and he did apply on 
13       December 1st, so he applied on Monday.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  I'll get to you.  Hold on.  
15       The problem is when you have somebody who is serving 
16       in a role and function in which they are doing the 
17       apologizing, they are doing the conveying for the 
18       boss, and they are going and sending out flyers and 
19       showing up at the meeting, you know what it sounds 
20       like to me they are?  A manager, at the very least.  
21       And, as well, a manager who in his own letters 
22       indicates that he's got a deal on the table for the 
23       purchase of the place.
24                 So for you to say to me that this gentleman 
25       was nothing more than a bartender, frankly, in all 

00077
 1       candidness, holds absolutely no weight whatsoever, 
 2       none, because ever iota of evidence that I see before 
 3       me seems to speak to the contrary, that he was taking 
 4       on a much more significant role, at the very least.
 5       So when you can say perhaps, perhaps is, he's somebody 
 6       who had a bartender's license who should have had a 
 7       manager's license, whoops, he was functioning as my 
 8       manager, or he was doing the role of that, and maybe 
 9       that's the least that you should say.  But at the 
10       most, you had some kind of collusive agreement with 
11       this gentleman where he was literally running the club 
12       in your absence, and right now, you're in such hot 
13       water down the stream that oh, crap, we better not get 
14       over the fact that the police department can come 
15       after me over fact that literally I'm not involved in 
16       the day-to-day operations and I'm paying him to run 
17       the place.
18                 I will be happy to allow you to address 
19       anything I mentioned here and to speak to your heart's 
20       contend on that, but I'm just telling you the 
21       testimony and the evidence here is not matching what 
22       I'm hearing from you, ma'am.  Just go ahead.  
23                 MR. PURNELL:  Mr. Chairman, can we address 
24       this when we come back?
25                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That's fine.  You may have 

00078
 1       an opportunity to look at the transcripts, and you can 
 2       raise questions with what I stated.  
 3                 MR. PURNELL:  I understand your concerns 
 4       with this matter, and I think that Ms. Peavey and I 
 5       can discuss this, not to obfuscate for you -- 
 6                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  No, that's fine.  I will 
 7       certainly give you time to digest and make comments.  
 8       Ms. Coggs had raised a question.  I don't know if you 
 9       have a question of this witness.  
10                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  I just had a point of 
11       clarification.  The meeting held at the 5th District 
12       was sponsored by my office in collaboration with the 
13       police department, and letters were sent from my 
14       office to surrounding residents to ask them to come.  
15       I don't know if Ms. Peavey and Mr. Green also sent 
16       something, but I know that there was some discussion 
17       of letters and whether Green sent them.  But I just 
18       wanted to make it very clear that that was a meeting 
19       that myself along with the liaison officer put 
20       together, and we sent out letters for it.  
21                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you, Alderwoman Coggs, 
22       for clarifying.  Were there any othere questions 
23       members have of this witness?  Thank you for your 
24       time here.  What we'll do here is we'll hold this 
25       matter.  

00079
 1                 MR. STEPHENS:  If I may.  
 2                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Mr. Stephens.  
 3                 MR. STEPHENS:  Just briefly before we do 
 4       adjourn, I did want to provide the committee and Ms. 
 5       Peavey's counsel with the letter just for the record 
 6       sake.  Ms. Peavey made reference to the fact that she 
 7       wrote two letters to Captain Smith regarding the 
 8       Groovin Inn, and one of them is included in the sworn 
 9       complaint, and the other one I have and just recently 
10       received, so I'd like to give that to the committee 
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That would be fine.  Do you 
12       have copies?  
13                 MR. STEPHENS:  Yes, I do.  
14                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  And he should have as part 
15       of the initial complaint should been served with a 
16       copy of that initial letter, should have been part of 
17       that particular finding, correct?  
18                 MR. STEPHENS:  The sworn complaint that was 
19       served on the licensee would have been the actual 
20       sworn charges document plus all of the exhibits, 
21       Exhibit A -- 
22                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  That would have been part of 
23       exhibit?  
24                 MR. STEPHENS:  Right.  The first letter that 
25       Ms. Peavey wrote, which was dated June 23rd, 2008, 

00080
 1       it's labeled as Exhibit C, that is the first letter 
 2       that Ms. Peavey referenced, and the second letter is 
 3       the one that I just provided.  
 4                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  It is a letter that includes 
 5       an envelope that has a cancellation date of October 
 6       25th, 2008, and the corresponding letter was received 
 7       with a time stamp of October 28th, 2008 by the 
 8       captain.  Is that in the top right corner?  
 9                 MR. STEPHENS:  Correct.  That's the document 
10       that I just gave to you.  
11                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  With that, Alderman Kovac 
12       would move to make this letter part of the official 
13       record in this proceeding, and hearing no objection to 
14       that, so ordered.  That being said, anything else 
15       anybody else needs to add in terms of questions at 
16       this point?
17                 With that, we will have Alderman Zielinski 
18       move to hold the matter relating to Item No. 3, File 
19       No. 081114, a motion relating to the revocation of the 
20       Class B Tavern License and Tavern Dance Licensee of 
21       Emantha Peavey, the licensed premises known as Groovin 
22       Inn, at 333 East Hadley Street due to sworn charges by 
23       the chief of police at the call of the chair, and 
24       hearing no objections, so ordered.
25                 What I will let you know is early next week, 

00081
 1       I'll look at the calendar and hopefully try to give 
 2       notice even if it's going to be sometime ahead to you 
 3       by like around Wednesday at the very latest of next 
 4       week so that you have the date on your calendars well 
 5       in advance before we hear the matter again.  
 6                 MR. PURNELL:  Do you have typical days or 
 7       times?
 8                 CHAIRMA BOHL:  No.  We do have a normal 
 9       cycle right now in terms of dates.  I would probably 
10       try to shy away from that.  It would be early enough 
11       in the schedule so that we would not run into the same 
12       dilemma of problems with findings of fact.  It would 
13       be early in January.  If you would like, come Monday 
14       you want to call my office, I'll be happy to take your 
15       call and just ensure that we have a date.
16                 ALDERWOMAN COGGS:  I just want to say on the 
17       record thank you to all the residents who did come out 
18       for and against the establishment.  It really shows 
19       the dedication and commitment to improving the 
20       neighborhood, and I greatly appreciate them coming and 
21       sharing their opinions.  
22                 CHAIRMAN BOHL:  Thank you.  
23                             * * *

00082
 1   STATE OF WISCONSIN )
 2                      )
 3   MILWAUKEE COUNTY   )
 4   
 5                 I, TERESE M. SCHIEBENES, of Milwaukee 
 6       Reporters Associated, Inc., 5120 West Blue Mound Road, 
 7       Milwaukee, Wisconsin  53208, certify that the 
 8       foregoing proceedings is a full and complete 
 9       transcript of my stenographic notes taken in the 
10       foregoing proceedings. 
11   
12   
13   
14   
15   
16                                                           
17                              TERESE M. SCHIEBENES
18                              Certified Shorthand Reporter
19   
20   
21   Dated this      day of               , 2008.
22   
23   
24