00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of: 6 The extended hours establishment renewal application 7 with a change of hours for 8 POPEYE'S 7525 West Good Hope Road 9 John Brodersen 10 agent for Brodersen Management Corporation 11 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 12 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 13 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman 14 ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK ALD. ROBERT PUTENTE 15 ALD. WILLIE WADE 16 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER 17 HEALTH DEPARTMENT by KEVIN HULBERT POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY 18 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 19 20 Proceedings had and testimony given in 21 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 22 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 23 the 27th day of March, 2007. 24 25 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: In the 9th 3 District, John Brodersen, agent for Brodersen 4 Management Corporation, extended hours 5 establishment renewal application with a change 6 of hours for Popeye's at 7525 West Good Hope 7 Road. Just identify yourself one more time for 8 the record. 9 THE APPLICANT: John Brodersen, 1522 10 North Prospect. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: The applicant's 12 been previously sworn. Same notice as you got on 13 the last one. You received - - acknowledge 14 receipt of that? 15 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Health Department? 17 HEALTH DEPARTMENT: No objection. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Neighborhood 19 Services? 20 DNS: No objection. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Now state 22 your case on this - - on this one. 23 THE APPLICANT: 76th and Good Hope 24 location, due to the competition coming on with 25 McDonald's this year, we - - we wanted - - we 00003 1 need to increase our hours, drive-through only 2 hours. We don't ask for 24 like they have, but 3 we need one more hour on Friday and Saturday, 4 until four a.m. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Questions by 6 members of the committee? 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, I would be 8 opposed to that as the alderman in that district. 9 Mr. Brodersen did call my office once. We then 10 called him back. He never returned the call 11 regarding this issue. I have a lot of 12 development going on in and around North 76th 13 Street. The McDonald's will probably not be 14 built until September or October of this year. 15 There was another application that went before 16 BOZA. There's a barbecue place that's going to 17 open up just north of Popeye's. They also wanted 18 extended hours. They withdrew that application 19 after talking to them. Because I have to see 20 what's going on, I have to see what's happening 21 in and around that area as it pertains to these 22 extended hours. So he withdrew at BOZA. 23 Regarding McDonald's, I publicly made a statement 24 that I would not be in favor of the 24 hours if 25 they were going to be open during the summer. 00004 1 But seeing how they're not going to be there 2 until September or October, I would like 3 everybody to just be on the same playing field, 4 and that's why I would be in denial of this 5 license. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. Any 7 questions by members of the committee? 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I just 9 want to get this straight in my own head. Mr. 10 Brodersen, is - - is it correct that the 11 McDonald's is not yet built? 12 THE APPLICANT: It's under construction 13 right now. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: That's not true. 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: It's under construction. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: It is not under 17 construction. It's the same building is there. 18 THE APPLICANT: Well, there's something 19 happening on that site. I don't know what you 20 want to call that. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: It's not under 22 construction. 23 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And so basically 25 you are seeking this license, or you are seeking 00005 1 the one hour extension to your extended hours 2 licensing because you're anticipating the 3 competition from McDonald's. Is that right? 4 THE APPLICANT: Yes. I thought it 5 would only be fair that if you - -this committee 6 approved them to be open so long, that we should, 7 in the spirit of competition, be able to stay 8 open an extra hour, especially since we've - - we 9 gave - - we gave up that hour two years ago, and, 10 you know, now we're asking for it back. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: And, Ms. Barron, I take 12 it, therefore, there is no McDonald's 24 hour 13 extended license in the location of 75th and Good 14 Hope? 15 MS. BARRON: No. I just looked up the 16 Board of Zoning Appeals. I think it's actually 17 7130 North 76th Street. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 19 MS. BARRON: And we don't have an 20 application on file for that at this time, 21 probably because we don't have - - they don't 22 have an occupancy permit. 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Oh, all right. 24 THE APPLICANT: 7130 North 76th Street. 25 It says - - a letter from you guys. It says, "A 00006 1 request was made by McDonald's Corporation for a 2 special use dimensional variance to construct a 3 fast food carry-out restaurant with a 24 hour 4 drive-through facility." And I called - - I 5 called the Board yesterday morning to see if this 6 was approved, and they said, "Yes." 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 8 MS. BARRON: Well - - 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Ms. Barron, and 10 followed by Alderman Bohl. 11 MS. BARRON: The extended hours license 12 - - The Board of Zoning Appeals is not able to 13 approve 24 hour use for a - - for a restaurant. 14 That's what the extended hours license is for. 15 So they - - If they were given approval for that, 16 they could operate until midnight. They'd have 17 to close and then open again at five in the 18 morning. That approval does not include between 19 12 a.m. and five a.m. That's what the extended 20 hours license is for. So I don't know what the 21 terminology - - 22 THE APPLICANT: I don't know how - - 23 how you define that, but it's definitely 24 competition the way I look at it, and they're - - 25 they're closed for five hours. We're closed for 00007 1 eight hours. It depends how you slice it. But 2 either way, they're going to be taking a lot of 3 business from us, and we need to somehow compete 4 with that. We've been a good neighbor there for 5 - - for eight years, and - - and, you know, we - 6 - I don't - - I don't know if we have any reports 7 on us or anything, but I have not heard of any. 8 And, you know, we're just doing our best, so, I 9 appreciate all the help we can get. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl? 11 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you. I think 12 that there's probably some confusion that still 13 exists. This - - This late night establishment 14 license, 24 hour license, has only been in 15 existence for a little more than two years. 16 Prior to the Council taking that authority from 17 the Board of Zoning Appeals and putting that 18 authority under the Council to operate hours for 19 these establishments between midnight and five 20 a.m., the Board used to have authority. I 21 believe that there are - - still are businesses 22 who are naive, who put in applications to the 23 Board believing that - - that somehow they are 24 granted a carte blanche approval. The Board 25 merely transfers what is in their application, 00008 1 but it does not have the authority to grant 2 between midnight and five a.m. They will have to 3 come here for a separate license, and could get 4 approved, could get amended, may not get approved 5 at all. But I can guarantee you whether or not 6 they received approval from the Board to operate 7 a restaurant there, they are not granted 8 authority between midnight and five a.m. They'll 9 have to come before us. 10 And if - - And if the - - the license 11 division manager says that there's been no 12 application here, all they have is an ability to 13 operate - - to - - to construct a store there and 14 to operate between midnight and five a.m. I'm 15 sorry. Between five a.m. and midnight, the other 16 way around. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Correct. 18 THE APPLICANT: Another issue, you 19 know, in usual circumstances there's 20 neighborhoods around, you know, houses that we're 21 - - we're affecting or, you know, neighbors that 22 are complaining. But in this case, there's - - 23 there's - - there's really no neighbors. I mean, 24 this is a complete commercial area, sur - - 25 surrounded completely by businesses, and it's 00009 1 also one of the busier intersections around. So 2 the traffic that we're creating is not, I don't 3 think, a nuisance. I'm just wondering what the 4 reasoning is for worrying about this location. I 5 mean, it's completely well lit. It's probably 6 one of the best lit corners in the City. Most 7 well-traveled. Probably the most - - one of the 8 most patrolled, and - - and I just - - I don't 9 see the reasoning behind this, but - - 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I did have calls and 13 conversations with people who do live in that 14 area. There are residential, maybe not 15 immediately in that vicinity, but there are 16 neighbors to the east of you, and to the west of 17 you, and to the north of you, and to the south of 18 you. They may not be within a block or two of 19 you, but they still see the impact of the traffic 20 that your business brings, the littering that 21 comes from your business. And so they are 22 concerned, too. I mean, actually, I am concerned 23 about your extended hours, period, you know. I'm 24 - - I'm at the point where I might ask this 25 committee to deny your extended hours, period. 00010 1 Because there's nobody else, other than the 2 McDonald's four blocks away from you, that has 3 extended hours, and there's no guarantee that 4 they're going to have extended hours once they 5 open up. But I do have those concerns. So - - 6 And I've heard them from - - from the people who 7 live in that area, some of whom even frequent 8 your business. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 10 Alderman. Mr. Brodersen, so right now is your - 11 - What are your current hours of operation now? 12 Your Thursday, Friday, Saturday. 13 THE APPLICANT: Three o'clock in the 14 morning. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. So it's 16 three, three and three. And the other days are 17 one a.m. 18 THE APPLICANT: Yes. It's drive- 19 through only. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What do you do for 22 the community, sir? Do you get together with 23 them and ask to pick up the neighborhood? Do you 24 get involved with anybody in the community? If 25 so, let me know who they are. 00011 1 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'm asking you right 3 now, sir. 4 THE APPLICANT: I don't have any of 5 that data in front of me. I'm sorry. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. But you're 7 saying you do? 8 THE APPLICANT: I know we send patrols 9 out to pick up the garbage. I know we do charity 10 work. I'm sorry. I've gotten a little - - I'm 11 building Popeye's in four different States right 12 now, and it's just I - - I've gotten a little - - 13 grown a little bit large right now, and I'm not 14 as well-prepared as I used to be for these 15 meetings. I will say they're a lot more 16 organized than they were ten years ago, however, 17 so, congratulations on that. I thank you for 18 seeing me. Normally I would have to wait about 19 three hours, but - - 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente, 21 just - - just FYI. Mr. Brodersen's had a loca - 22 - I mean, I know him for a long time. He's had a 23 location on Cesar Chavez and - - and National 24 Avenue, which is - - which is very well run. And 25 every time we've - - every time we've had an 00012 1 issue, he's responded immediately. No major 2 problems. And have participated in neighborhood 3 clean-ups. I - - I know that personally from 4 working with him. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, I know 6 personally, as I stated at the beginning of my 7 conversation here, that I called this gentleman. 8 My office called him, and he did not respond to 9 me. So why he treats me different than you, I 10 don't know. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, I - - I 12 haven't had the occasion to talk to him in the 13 last couple years. I'm just saying pre - - 14 previously, the - - I've had communications with 15 him because of his place on Cesar Chavez and 16 National and everything's been - - everything's 17 been fine over there. Okay. I just wanted to 18 respond to the - - the fact that he - - he has 19 helped our neighborhood out anyway, and I - - I 20 don't know what he's done up around your area up 21 there. All right. Any other questions by 22 members of the committee? 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I just 24 want to make sure I understand this. Currently, 25 Mr. Brodersen, you are open to one a.m. on all 00013 1 days except Thursday, Friday and Saturday, when 2 you're open to three a.m. at this location. 3 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. What time do you 5 open in the morning? 6 THE APPLICANT: Ten o'clock on all 7 days. 8 MS. BARRON: Mr. Chairman? 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 10 MS. BARRON: The current hours that we 11 have are Monday through Wednesday, ten a.m. to 12 midnight. Thursday, Friday and Saturday, ten 13 a.m. to three a.m. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Does that sound 15 correct? 16 THE APPLICANT: Well, no - - I mean, 17 according to the application that my people 18 filled out it says one o'clock are the current 19 hours, so I have to - - 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Currently, it's 21 - - She'll show you what she has over there. 22 THE APPLICANT: I stand corrected. 23 This was - - She's correct, I believe. I'm 24 sorry. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So currently it's 00014 1 Sunday through Wednesday, ten a.m. to midnight, 2 and then the other three days are ten a.m. to 3 three a.m. 4 THE APPLICANT: Yes, we're - - 5 Apparently we're trying to get one extra hour on 6 each day, and that's - - Our application this 7 year was filled out incorrectly by one of my 8 staff members, and I apologize for that. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. All right. 10 Anything further by members of the committee. 11 Okay. This matter is in committee. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, I would 13 move for a denial, based on the testimony given 14 today. The - - The motion is to deny the 15 applicant's - - his extended hours that he's 16 asking for. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 18 Puente is to recommend denial of the extended 19 hours application that's submitted here. Is 20 there any discussion on the motion? Are there 21 any objections to the motion besides mine? 22 ALDERMAN BOHL: I'll object. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hearing two 24 objections, the motion fails. Matter is still in 25 committee. 00015 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 3 ALDERMAN BOHL: I do not like to go 4 against the desires of an alderperson in their 5 district. However, I think in terms of police 6 reports being lacking, in terms of neighborhood 7 objections being lacking, it's very difficult 8 just to outright denial. Although, Mr. 9 Brodersen, what I will say is that your 10 presentation here does certainly not better your 11 position with the local alderman or any member of 12 this - - of this - - of this body. Just simply, 13 you got to know what your hours are and what 14 you're applying for. And I don't care if - - If 15 your CFO can't make it today, you just can't come 16 in here and - - and make it appear as if you're 17 doing a circus act. And I know that that 18 rightfully does not - - does not make Alderman 19 Puente feel confidant. Although what I will say 20 is once you are granted a license, you have a 21 vested property right in that, and there hasn't 22 been demonstrable evidence that would allow us to 23 legally take that way. So, at this point I would 24 move approval of the license with the hours that 25 you had approved last year. Monday through 00016 1 Thursday from ten a.m. to midnight - - I'm sorry. 2 Monday through Wednesday, ten a.m. to midnight, 3 and is it Thursday, Friday and Saturday until - - 4 with approval from midnight to three a.m. under 5 this extended hour license. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You heard the 7 motion by Alderman Bohl. Any discussion on the 8 motion? Are there any objections to the motion? 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'll object. 10 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I'll object. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hearing two 12 objections, the motion fails on a vote of two to 13 two. 14 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik 16 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Would an appropriate 17 motion be to forward this on to Council without 18 committee recommendation? 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, that's 20 very difficult to do, because I have to do 21 findings of fact, and without, there's no 22 findings of fact. 23 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I have a possible 25 suggestion, Mr. Brodersen, if you're not real 00017 1 busy this morning. I expect some time in the 2 near future our fifth committee person to show 3 up, which would - - we'd have an odd number, 4 which would then break the tie. We could hear 5 some brief evidence again just to bring him up to 6 speed and then - - and then attempt to render a 7 decision on this. Would you be able to stay? 8 THE APPLICANT: What's - - I'm - - I'm 9 lost here. Where - - Where are we going with 10 this? I mean - - 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: The committee is 12 locked at two to two. 13 THE APPLICANT: To do what, though? 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well - - 15 THE APPLICANT: To extend the hours or 16 to keep them the same. 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: Both. 18 THE APPLICANT: Now there's another 19 motion to reduce the hours? So if I didn't show 20 up today, I would have been better off, is what 21 you're saying. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No, no, no, no. 23 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No, you wouldn't. 25 You would have been in bad shape then. The one - 00018 1 - The one motion is not to grant this at all, 2 which means you would have to close at, is that 3 midnight? 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Correct. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You'd have to 6 close at midnight every day. And that motion 7 failed on two to two. Then there was another 8 motion that said leave it exactly the same way it 9 is. Close at midnight for four days, and then 10 three a.m. the other three days. And that failed 11 two to two. So the committee has no decision at 12 this point, because we're locked on two to two 13 votes. 14 THE APPLICANT: So - - 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: If you - - If you 16 would decide on your own to ask the committee and 17 say, listen, I'm not interested in the extended 18 hours, I'll close at midnight every night - - 19 THE APPLICANT: Well, no - - 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - then the - - 21 THE APPLICANT: The worst case 22 scenario, I don't care how long I got to stay 23 here today. The worst case scenario is the 24 status quo, whatever, you know, the - - whatever 25 the hours are right now, which would be three 00019 1 a.m. on those - - the three nights. And so, I 2 mean, I'm willing to walk away with what we got 3 right now, just like on Capitol Drive, you know, 4 to save us all some trouble. But apparently, 5 there's some anger towards me, and I maybe should 6 address that in a - - in a logical way with some 7 people on the committee and find out why and - - 8 and maybe correct that. Because apparently I did 9 something wrong. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, that's a 11 good idea, but now is not the time to do that. 12 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: But what I'm 14 asking is if you could - - if you could stay, I 15 expect our fifth committee member here shortly. 16 And then we would rehear this. We have to break 17 this tie, because right now - - right now we 18 don't have a decision. 19 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: The alternative is as 22 - - as everybody on this committee knows, the 23 chances are 95 percent that we're going to have a 24 special meeting between now and Council. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Um-hnh. 00020 1 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I was just wondering 2 if rather than having this gentleman wait around 3 all day long, if he couldn't meet with the local 4 alderman between now and then. 5 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Just on that 8 suggestion, and if this committee then votes 9 three to two to take the first action, it does 10 not allow the Assistant - - Assistant City 11 Attorney at the time to - - to provide findings 12 of fact prior to the Council meeting. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's correct. 14 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Those assistant 15 attorneys. They just get in my way. 16 ALDERMAN BOHL: I think findings of 17 fact, they're over-rated sometimes, aren't they? 18 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: All right. Thank you 19 very much. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Occasionally, people 21 forget about things like due process, and timing, 22 and findings of fact, and all that good stuff. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Brodersen, we 24 - - we can get back to this in a few minutes. At 25 this time Alderman Bohl moves to hold this matter 00021 1 to the Call of the Chair. Please, don't leave. 2 As soon as Alderman Wade shows up we'll - - 3 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - we'll brief 5 him, and then we'll attempt to make a decision. 6 THE APPLICANT: All right. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl 8 moves to hold this matter to the Call of the 9 Chair. Hearing no objections. So ordered. 10 (Whereupon Popeye's was held to the 11 Call of the Chair.) 12 (Whereupon Alderman Wade joins the 13 Committee.) 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: At this time 15 Alderman Bohl moves to recall the matter of John 16 R. Brodersen, agent for Brodersen Management 17 Corporation, extended hours application with 18 renewal application for a change of - - with a 19 change of hours for Popeye's at 7525 West Good 20 Hope Road. Please have a chair. Applicant's 21 been previously sworn. Just state your name 22 again for the record, please. 23 THE APPLICANT: John Brodersen. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade, we 25 - - this committee was locked on a decision 00022 1 previously. The - - What the applicant is 2 applying for is to keep what he currently has, 3 which is midnight on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, 4 Wednesday, and then to close at three a.m. on 5 Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, which is what the 6 establishment currently has. The voted committee 7 before you arrived was - - There first was a 8 motion by Alderman Puente to deny this 9 application completely, which would mean he would 10 have to close at midnight every night, and that 11 failed on a vote of two to two. And then 12 Alderman Bohl made a motion to allow this 13 applicant to have the same hours that he has 14 right now, which is the four days until midnight, 15 and then Thursday, Friday and Saturday to three 16 a.m. which he currently has, and that motion 17 failed on a vote of two to two. 18 And I would like you to hear some 19 testimony before we take this matter into 20 committee and - - and attempt to - - to rule on 21 it again. Alderman Puente, anything - - 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Yes, Mr. Chair. 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, 24 if I may ask a question of the City Attorney. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead, 00023 1 Alderman. 2 ALDERMAN WADE: Exact - - Just from a 3 legal standpoint, exactly how much do I have to 4 - - I mean, I saw some of it from my office, but 5 exactly what do I have to hear in order for this 6 to be - - for me to be able to weigh in? 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Actually, the 8 technically correct way to do this would be to 9 have the Court Reporter read her notes back in 10 the presence of - - of Alderman Wade. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And at this 12 time I'll ask the Court Reporter to do that. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Before that, Mr. 14 Chair, if I could clarify your statements. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes, go ahead. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: The reason this 17 gentleman is before us is not that he wants to 18 keep it the same. If he wanted to keep it the 19 same, he wouldn't be here. What he wants to do 20 is add an hour to everything. Correct? 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: But the 22 application was amended. He said - - 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Not by him. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I heard testimony 25 that said he just - - 00024 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: To the previous one. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: He was confused, 3 and he said he just wanted to have it - - He said 4 he just wanted to walk away with it - - 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Well, she can read it 6 back then, and - - and we'll see. But - - 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: - - at no time during 9 the testimony prior to us going into the hearing 10 did he say that. He said that to the prior one, 11 but never on this application. It's not until 12 Alderman Bohl made that recommendation, and then 13 after, that's when he said it. 14 THE APPLICANT: Well, it was after - - 15 I had the wrong information from - - from your - 16 - from the letter here it says, "The McDonald's 17 is open for 24 hours and a 24 hour drive-through 18 facility," and we needed to compete with that. 19 Now after she corrected me and said that 20 McDonald's is not open for 24 hours, I agreed. I 21 don't - - I don't need to extend my hours. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Maybe I'm 23 mistaken, and then she'll read it back. 24 COURT REPORTER: It's going to take a 25 few minutes for me to find it. 00025 1 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. Mr. Chair, can I 2 - - Let me just ask a couple questions just in 3 the hopes of maybe expediting this. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead, 5 Alderman. 6 ALDERMAN WADE: So you're saying that 7 the recommendation by Alderman Bohl, sir, you 8 agreed to that recommendation, to keep your 9 current hours? 10 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. And then, 12 Alderman Puente, you're saying that if he would 13 have come in here with the current hours, there 14 would not be a problem. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I didn't say that. 16 He wouldn't be before us. 17 ALDERMAN WADE: He wouldn't be before 18 us. So are you - - are you willing to - - to 19 accept him moving on with his current hours, 20 Alderman? 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You know one of 22 the reasons - - Just let me make a comment to the 23 committee here. One of the reasons we have a 24 hard time sometimes rendering a decision in cases 25 like this, is there's too much little 00026 1 conversations, side conversations going on on the 2 side and we're not all paying attention to the 3 matters at the table that we should be paying 4 attention to. So for my - - my fellow committee 5 members, I would wish that when we're in critical 6 stages like this in making a decision, that we're 7 not kibitzing with each other, okay? 8 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. And - - And, Mr. 9 Chair, if I may continue. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Sure. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: The reason why I'm 12 asking that, because if Alderman Puente is 13 willing to accept his current hours, then I won't 14 have to listen to the Court Reporter, and we can 15 just re-vote on it and - - and move on. And if 16 he's not willing to do that, then we would have 17 to go through listening to the notes from the 18 Court Reporter. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: The simple answer to 21 that question would be no. I mean, given what 22 was said earlier, which I can repeat, but it's 23 the - - 24 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: - - will of the Chair 00027 1 on this, you know, what he wants to do. 2 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. All right. Then 3 in that case, Mr. Chair - - 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Because - - Mr. 5 Chair, if I may - - I - - I do listen to - - to 6 what's going on. I know I'm not perfect. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I know, I know, I 8 know. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: But we'll - - we'll 10 see. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I know. 12 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 14 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: As long as we're all 15 in this together, I have a question for the City 16 Attorney's office. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 18 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: If - - it is my 19 understanding that this gentleman chooses to 20 withdraw his application, we don't have to vote 21 on anything. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, that's right. But 23 then, he would be required to close at midnight 24 all days of the week. I don't think he - - 25 That's totally his decision, but - - 00028 1 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Okay. All right. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: - - I don't think he 3 wants to do that. 4 THE APPLICANT: No, I don't. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Okay. 6 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair, if I can ask 7 one more question. 8 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Go ahead, Alderman 9 Wade. 10 ALDERMAN WADE: Just in the hopes of 11 - - of speeding things up. One of the other 12 people who didn't - - I don't - - I think it was 13 Alderman Dudzik, maybe. See if he's willing to 14 allow this gentleman to operate at the current 15 hours that he has now. If he's willing to do 16 that, then I don't have to listen to the Court 17 Reporter. But if he's not willing to do that, 18 then I have to listen to the Court Reporter. 19 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Listen to the Court 20 Reporter. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: Listen to the Court 22 Reporter? Okay. 23 COURT REPORTER: I would rather just do 24 a transcript. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: But if - - If you do a 00029 1 transcript, we're not going to have time for me 2 - - The committee is going to have to reconvene, 3 and then the Alderman is going to have to read 4 the transcript, and then I might not have time to 5 grind out the findings of fact if the committee 6 takes adverse action. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: There is the problem. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 10 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you. Let me just 11 - - Mr. Schrimpf, if - - if this gentleman 12 agrees, if he has agreed to amend his license to 13 the current hours at the table - - 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: Whether he did it ten 16 minutes ago or not, he's doing that now. Does he 17 have a vested property protection in that current 18 license? 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: Yes, of course. That's 20 his current hours. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: And - - And there is no 22 police report in this particular case. Is that 23 correct? 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's correct. 25 ALDERMAN BOHL: And there was no 00030 1 neighborhood objection where any demonstrated 2 evidence had said that this was detrimental from 3 any neighbors who were here to testify firsthand. 4 Correct? 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, except to the - - 6 You are correct, except that Alderman Puente made 7 some statements. 8 ALDERMAN BOHL: Which was secondhand 9 information, because he said constituents 10 contacted him, so on and so forth. Correct? 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, that's true, yeah. 12 ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. Now, you have 13 - - If - - If this were taken to court, do you 14 have zero chance to win or zero chance to win? 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, I never like to 16 get into the court's .. 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: Well, let's - - let's 18 just be - - No, you know what? We're going to 19 cut to the chase right now. So why don't we just 20 - - Answer that question. Do you have any chance 21 to win, whatsoever? 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: If you deny this 23 license? 24 ALDERMAN BOHL: Correct. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: I - - I think it would 00031 1 be a very weak case. 2 ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. I'll take that 3 as a zero chance. I move approval of the current 4 hours. Let's cut through the fiasco. I - - I 5 understand where Alderman Puente is. We've got a 6 long agenda today. We've got votes here. 7 Otherwise, it's ridiculous. Let's cut to the 8 chase. There's other people that are waiting. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by 10 Alder - - 11 ALDERMAN BOHL: Let's be big boys and 12 big girls. Move approval of the hours that he 13 had presently. Closing at midnight, Sunday, 14 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Until three a.m. on 15 Thursday, Friday, Saturday. If you want to ask, 16 Mr. Chairman, to confirm that - - that that's 17 what he wished to amend it to, you can do so, as 18 well, too. 19 THE APPLICANT: Yes, I do. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Motion by 21 Alderman Bohl is to recommend approval of the 22 extended hours of the application as amended, 23 which is - - The only thing that's covered are 24 those three nights, because the other times he 25 closes at midnight. So it would be Thursday, 00032 1 Friday, and Saturday to three a.m. That's the 2 motion on the table. Are there any objections to 3 that motion? 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, on the 5 motion. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I agree we should cut 8 to the chase, but it doesn't have to be your way. 9 It could be the alderman in the district, too. 10 It's two ways, Alderman. It's not your way. It 11 could be either way. So maybe some other people 12 should grow up, and I still have the - - the 13 floor, Alderman. The Assistant City Attorney 14 said he would have a hard time defending it. It 15 doesn't mean he can't defend it. You can 16 interpret it anyway you want, but I can interpret 17 it the same way. So let's cut to the chase. 18 Okay. If you want it, then do it my way. 19 ALDERMAN BOHL: I know, I'll amend my 20 motion. Move to deny. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 22 Bohl is to recommend denial. Are there - - Let's 23 do a roll call on that motion. 24 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Bohl? 25 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 00033 1 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Puente? 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 3 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Wade? 4 ALDERMAN WADE: Abstain. 5 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Dudzik? 6 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 7 CLERK ELMER: Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No. 9 CLERK ELMER: Motion is approved. 10 Three to one. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. The committee has 12 recommended denial of your application for an 13 extended hours license. You will have an oppor 14 - - Well, the committee is going to be doing 15 findings of fact and conclusions of law 16 recommending denial of this license. You will 17 receive a copy of that recommendation. If you 18 receive or if you file written objections to that 19 recommendation, which must be filed by April 20 12th, 2007, close of business in the City Clerk's 21 office on the second floor of this building, then 22 you will also have an opportunity to appear 23 before the Common Council when it meets on this 24 matter on April 17th, 2007 at approximately nine 25 a.m. in the Common Council Chambers of this 00034 1 building. Same floor, but the opposite end. Did 2 you follow all that? 3 THE APPLICANT: No, but I'm sure I'll 4 get it in writing. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. 6 * * * * * * 00035 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, TERESE M. SCHIEBENES, of Milwaukee 8 Reporters Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a full and complete transcript of the 11 audio recording taken in the foregoing proceedings. 12 13 14 15 TERESE M. SCHIEBENES 16 Court Reporter 17 18 19 Dated this day of April, 2007. 20