00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Dance 6 renewal application for: 7 ANTONIOS ANAGNOU EURO CAFE' BAR, LLC 8 324 East Mason Street 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman 12 ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK ALD. ROBERT PUTENTE 13 ALD. WILLIE WADE 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by TOM WESSEL 15 HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY 16 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 27th day of February, 2007. 22 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: In the 4th 3 District, Antonios Anagnou, agent for Euro Cafe' 4 Bar, LLC, Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Dance 5 renewal applications for the Euro Cafe' Bar at 6 324 East Mason Street. 7 MR. PYZYK: Good afternoon, Mr. 8 Chairman. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Good afternoon. 10 MR. PYZYK: Committee members. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Good afternoon. 12 If you could please raise your right 13 hand, we could swear you in? Sir? 14 MR. PYZYK: Do you want all of them, 15 Mr. Chairman? 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Not - - Not just 17 yet. 18 MR. PYZYK: Not yet. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just the people 20 that will be at the - - 21 MR. PYZYK: Oh, okay. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Would you raise 23 your right hand, please, sir? 24 (Whereupon the applicant was sworn.) 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Name and address 00003 1 for the record, the applicant. 2 MR. PYZYK: Name and address. 3 THE APPLICANT: Name and address, 4 Antonios Anagnou, Euro Cafe' Bar at 324 East 5 Mason. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 7 And do you want to state your appearance, 8 Counselor? 9 MR. PYZYK: Attorney Roger Pyzyk, 10 representing the applicant. And that's spelled 11 P-Y-Z-Y-K. Office address 10701 West National 12 Avenue, West Allis, Wisconsin 53227. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And you, sir. 14 Name and address? 15 MR. ASIMAKOTOULOS: Spiro 16 Asimakotoulos. 11007 West Edgerton, Hales 17 Corners, Wisconsin 53130. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And could you 19 raise your right hand, please, and we'll swear 20 you in. 21 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 22 (Whereupon the witness was sworn.) 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Name and address 24 for the record. 25 THE WITNESS: Patricia Keating Kahn. 00004 1 3441 North Summit Avenue in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Ah - - 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, perhaps by 4 way of some explanation, if you recall, this 5 matter was heard by the committee the last cycle 6 the licensee did not appear at the course of that 7 hearing, appeared later in the day. The 8 committee did not move to - - Strike that - - did 9 not adopt a motion to reconsider it at that time. 10 As a recommendation for nonrenewal based on non- 11 appearance, police report and neighborhood 12 objection, it went to the Council. There were 13 findings of fact. At the Council there were 14 objections to the recommendation filed by 15 Attorney Pyzyk. Attorney Pyzyk essentially asked 16 that this matter be returned to the committee. 17 The Council did not act on that recommendation or 18 on that request. The nonrenewal went through. 19 Mr. Pyzyk sought review of that matter by way, 20 really, of a - - of a Writ of Mandamus to seek to 21 have the - - the case heard by the committee. 22 The court heard that matter on an expedited basis 23 and was somewhat uncomfortable with the fact that 24 on the apparent facts the applicant did not get a 25 hearing. 00005 1 I argued that the applicant did get a 2 hearing. He simply wasn't there. But at any 3 rate the court was very concerned about that, and 4 really wanted this matter to come back for a 5 hearing. And I think, Mr. Pyzyk, the court 6 dismissed the case, did - - did she not? 7 MR. PYZYK: She dismissed the case on 8 the basis that it was coming back here to be 9 scheduled for a hearing. That's correct. 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: Right. And I want to 11 emphasize to the committee that the - - the court 12 made it eminently plain and clear that the court 13 was not in any way returning this matter to the 14 committee with instructions. The court made it 15 very, very clear that the applicant can present 16 his case, and then in light of the totality of 17 the evidence the committee makes a 18 recommendation, which will then be considered by 19 the Council. Did I summarize that correctly, Mr. 20 Pyzyk? 21 MR. PYZYK: You did, Mr. Schrimpf, if I 22 could just add that the concern of the court, 23 which the court emphasized numerous times to Mr. 24 Schrimpf and myself, excluded the fact that three 25 of four notices that were sent by the City of 00006 1 Milwaukee that Mr. Anagnou received were sent to 2 the address 324 East Mason Street, which is the 3 business establishment. The one notice that he 4 didn't receive, which was the notice of the 5 hearing before this body, was sent to the Jackson 6 Street address, which he never received, and 7 which there was an Affidavit filed with the court 8 by the manager of the apartment that they were 9 having a lot of problems with the mail delivery 10 because of the mail, the regular mail person 11 being on a medical leave, and that they had 12 received numerous complaints by missed mail, 13 misdirected mail, not receiving mail. And the 14 court had made it clear that, you know, if - - if 15 it showed that that notice before this committee 16 had gone to 324, the court would have looked 17 differently on the case and probably would not 18 have directed that it be returned here for a 19 hearing, but for the fact that the important 20 notice of the hearing went to a different 21 address. 22 As a matter of fact, I don't know if 23 Mr. Schrimpf has even stated, or it's not, I 24 guess, before this body, but maybe before the 25 clerk - - the court wanted to take the credit for 00007 1 suggesting that maybe on the license applications 2 that the applicant state where the mail is to be 3 delivered, so that they can't later come back and 4 say, "Well, I didn't get it at this address," 5 when they, in fact, had put it on the 6 application, this is where they are to receive 7 the mail. Am I correct, Mr. Schrimpf? 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: That is correct. 9 MR. PYZYK: And she said she wanted at 10 least be given credit for that idea. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 12 MR. PYZYK: That's all I have to add. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman. 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Just - - Just so 17 everyone in the audience can understand, how are 18 we - - Are we going to proceed as if this is a 19 brand new hearing? We already have a substantial 20 amount of evidence in the record. Some of those 21 same - - Some of those same witnesses are back 22 today. One is not for sure. And so I - - I just 23 - - I mean, I - - Given the number of people 24 here, I would basically suggest let everybody 25 have at it and see where the chips fall here. 00008 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I think how I'd 2 like to proceed is to treat this as a new 3 hearing. But we also have to take into account 4 the evidence from the - - the testimony from the 5 previous hearing. You say there's one person 6 that testified at the previous hearing that's not 7 here today. 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Correct. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: When we did the 10 - - When we did the roll call at the Council 11 meeting where this license was denied for non- 12 appearance, I recall everyone on this committee 13 answering yes to the fact that they had read the 14 findings of fact, which means that they would 15 have been - - they are aware of - - Well, they 16 were - - they were at this hearing, actually, and 17 they're also aware of that testimony, as are all 18 other members of the Council. So - - But we'll 19 proceed. Can I - - Every - - Everyone else 20 that's in this room, let's start this. Everyone 21 else in this room that is going to testify now, 22 except for the people at this table I have 23 already sworn in, I want you to raise your right 24 hands. We'll swear you all in at the same time. 25 (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.) 00009 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Now I'd like - - 2 I don't want anybody to leave and like 3 go downstairs and call up the newspaper. We're 4 going to take - - We're going to recess for five 5 minutes. 6 (Whereupon a break was taken.) 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It's still 8 Tuesday, March 27th. Of everyone in the audience 9 here I just want to see a show of hands, who is 10 here to testify in opposition to this license 11 being renewed? Okay. I would like to hear from 12 those people first, if you would come to the 13 stand-up microphone here and give us your - - I 14 want to hear your name, address, how close you 15 live to this location and then your testimony. 16 (Audience) 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No, we - - we - - 18 Didn't - - We swore everybody in. Right? The 19 whole - - If you didn't raise your right hand and 20 swear, then I don't want you coming to this 21 microphone. We have cameras, so we're keeping 22 track of all this stuff. Sir, your name and 23 address for the record, please. 24 THE WITNESS: I'm Eric Durand. I live 25 at 741 - - 00010 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Eric Durand. Say it 2 again, please. 3 THE WITNESS: Eric Durand. 741 North 4 Milwaukee Street. I live directly across from 5 the business. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And your 7 testimony, Eric? 8 THE WITNESS: I - - I'm coming to speak 9 against this, as a member and representative of 10 the Grain Exchange Condominium Association, 11 Board of Directors. I'm the Vice-President of 12 the Board. That is the building directly across 13 from the Euro Cafe. We've - - They've been open 14 nearly two years. There has been - - have been 15 ongoing noise problems. We've been logging those 16 noise problems. Sent a letter to the owners 17 nearly two years ago, and up through last Summer 18 and this Winter the noise problems continued. 19 These are typically late at night, 11 p.m. until 20 2:30 a.m., pounding music waking people up, 21 pounding the area, very rowdy behavior from 22 patrons leaving the establishment and so on. 23 So it's particularly loud. It's well 24 in excess of any reasonable amount of noise. The 25 traffic doesn't give me trouble. I've lived in 00011 1 noisy areas for many years. I've lived a few 2 blocks from train tracks when I lived in 3 Michigan. The train would go through at three 4 a.m. every morning. I could sleep through that. 5 But the noise that's common most weekends with 6 this bar I can't - - cannot sleep through. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Have - 8 - Now have you witnessed this yourself? Is this 9 your personal testimony? 10 THE WITNESS: Yes - - Yes, it is. I 11 live on the second floor. I am very directly 12 across, probably less than 20 feet down the 13 street from the - - from the establishment. I 14 can see them directly out my bedroom windows. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 16 Questions of this witness? 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman? 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: How frequently are you 20 disturbed? 21 THE WITNESS: Several times a month. 22 Two to three times a month, easily. 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Is this basically on 24 weekends? 25 THE WITNESS: Mostly, yes. 00012 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are you woken from your 2 sleep or are you - - are you awake and just get 3 disturbed because of the noise? 4 THE WITNESS: I am woken from my sleep 5 very often. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 7 Chairman. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Do you have any 9 questions, Mr. Pyzyk. 10 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman. Thank you. 11 Mr. Durand, you made a reference to living in 12 Michigan and having the railroad tracks down from 13 you. Are you saying that the noise coming from 14 here is louder than the railroad track noise of a 15 locomotive coming down the tracks? 16 THE WITNESS: No, sir. I - - I mean 17 that the noise is of a different quality. It's a 18 very throbbing, penetrating, low frequency noise 19 that seeps in through the building and can wake 20 one up from a sleep. And in nearly two years I 21 have not become accustomed to that noise. 22 MR. PYZYK: Okay. How many times have 23 you called the police department to complain? 24 THE WITNESS: I have personally called 25 at least three times. I believe it may be more 00013 1 than that. 2 MR. PYZYK: In the two years? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 MR. PYZYK: Three times in two years. 5 THE WITNESS: That's a minimum, sir, 6 from the records I've kept, yes. 7 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And, Mr. Durand, you 8 - - you said that you sit on the Grain Exchange 9 Condominium Association Board? 10 THE WITNESS: That's correct, sir. 11 MR. PYZYK: How many members make up 12 that board? 13 THE WITNESS: Three. 14 MR. PYZYK: All right. Is Mr. Dan 15 Hlavachek one of those? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And who is the third 18 member? 19 THE WITNESS: Eric Feldheis. 20 MR. PYZYK: Okay. You - - Were you on 21 the board back in August of 2005, shortly after 22 this - - this business opened up? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 MR. PYZYK: And you were part of a 25 letter that was sent to Mr. Anagnou and Mr. 00014 1 Asimakotoulos. Is that correct? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And you also were a 4 member of the board in December - - December 12th 5 of 2005 when a letter was sent to them, making 6 suggestions as to what could be done to remedy 7 the problems. Is that correct? 8 THE WITNESS: I was a member of that 9 board. I don't remember that particular letter, 10 offhand. 11 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Do you, as a member 12 of the board, have you ever, prior to coming here 13 today, reviewed that letter to see what 14 suggestions were made to Mr. Anagnou and Mr. 15 Asimakotoulos? 16 THE WITNESS: I - - If the letter was 17 sent from the board, I would have reviewed it. I 18 do have the August letter with me, which is the 19 one I have reviewed most recently. 20 MR. PYZYK: Okay. If I have a letter 21 that was previously made part of the record here 22 at the previous hearing, headed Grain Exchange 23 Homeowners Association issues concerning Euro Bar 24 and Cafe meeting of December 12th, 2005, and then 25 the very bottom states, "Communicate with the 00015 1 association, demonstrate a sense of shared 2 community, correspondence and updates can be sent 3 to Dan Hlavachek." Would you admit that that 4 would be - - would have been something that came 5 from the Homeowners Association. 6 THE WITNESS: Yes, that sounds 7 consistent with what we were asking them for. 8 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And do you know 9 what, if anything, has been done by the 10 establishment. When I say "establishment," I 11 refer to Euro Cafe Bar, with regard to the 12 suggestions that were made by the Homeowners 13 Association? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. One thing they did 15 do was they did install a outdoor double-door 16 entry, which did help the problem significantly, 17 but did not solve it. 18 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And one of the 19 suggestions in that Homeowners Association letter 20 also made reference to eliminating the large 21 exterior tables and - - which lead to noisy 22 patrons use of all their tables or maybe 23 eliminate the exterior tables altogether. Are - 24 - Are you aware of the fact that my clients, as 25 of last year, approxi - - as of last August have 00016 1 eliminated all the outside tables. Would you 2 agree with that? 3 THE WITNESS: There were no tables 4 there during the Winter or Fall that I remember. 5 I was gone out of town through about August 12th 6 of 2006. 7 MR. PYZYK: From when to when? 8 THE WITNESS: Approximately June 1st. 9 I returned on August 12th or 14th. I was not in 10 Milwaukee during most of the Summer months. 11 MR. PYZYK: Okay. But when you came 12 back, did you observe the fact that the - - my 13 clients had moved the tables as suggested by the 14 Homeowners Association? 15 THE WITNESS: To the best of my memory, 16 that's correct. There were no tables out there 17 in August or later in 2006. 18 MR. PYZYK: And another one of the 19 suggestions was that they close their windows 20 during the Summer at ten p.m. to accommodate the 21 area residents, obviously the homeowners, the 22 members of the Homeowners Association. Are you 23 aware of the fact that those windows have been 24 permanently shut throughout last year? 25 THE WITNESS: I believe they have been. 00017 1 Yes, that was - - that suggestion was made on 2 advice of the community liaison officer, who 3 advised us of the corresponding regulations. 4 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And then you've 5 already mentioned one, which was another one of 6 the suggestions, that they reconfigure the front 7 entryway so that there are two sets of doors, and 8 you said that that has caused a significant 9 improvement in the noise problem that you people 10 had been experiencing. Is that correct? 11 THE WITNESS: It has. 12 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Another one was the 13 - - the possible adjustment of internal speakers 14 and reduction in the noise level. Have you gone 15 into the establishment or has the association 16 sent a representative over to my client to see 17 whether or not he has reduced the number of 18 speakers on the inside of his establishment, and 19 reconfigured, as far as moving speakers away from 20 the front of the establishment? Are you aware of 21 that being done? 22 THE WITNESS: I have not. I am not 23 aware of that a member of the board has. 24 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And as a matter of 25 fact, the - - When we've requested a - - a 00018 1 meeting of the board, the association board, we 2 were unable to get a - - a consensus to have a 3 board meeting with you board members. Are you 4 aware of that? 5 THE WITNESS: No. 6 MR. PYZYK: Did Mr. Hlavachek indicate 7 to you that we've made numerous requests to meet 8 with the board since the December 12th meeting to 9 explain, to go over everything that my clients 10 have done? 11 THE WITNESS: No. 12 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And the board hasn't 13 taken it upon themselves after December 12th to 14 call a board meeting to send any - - any 15 additional requests to my client, have they? 16 THE WITNESS: They have not. 17 MR. PYZYK: Okay. I have nothing 18 further. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions of 20 members of the committee? Thank you. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Question. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Just to clarify, Mr. 24 Durand. You said the problem has improved since 25 the vestibule was installed in front of the 00019 1 building? 2 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Has the - - Has the 4 problem, the noise that disturbs you from your 5 sleep, wakes you from a sound sleep, has that 6 problem gone away? 7 THE WITNESS: It has not. 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Thank 10 you for your testimony. Next person to testify, 11 please. Next person in opposition. 12 THE WITNESS: My name is Charles 13 Harvey. I'm a resident at 741 North Milwaukee 14 Street. I live on the 8th and 9th floor, occupy 15 two floors of the building, directly across the 16 street from the establishment. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And your 18 testimony, Charles? 19 THE WITNESS: My testimony is very 20 simple. The noise that was described by the 21 gentleman just in front of me is constant when 22 they're open, typically from Wednesday through 23 Saturday, and it is hard to either go to sleep, 24 or when you are asleep, when they crank it up at 25 night, it wakens - - it awakens you. 00020 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Questions by 2 members of the committee? 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: Is that every weekend? 6 THE WITNESS: It was every weekend from 7 the time that I've lived there since June of - - 8 of 2006. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: Is it most prevalent on 10 Friday and Saturday nights, or is it during the 11 week, as well? 12 THE WITNESS: I travel during the week 13 sometimes, but - - but typically Thursdays, 14 Fridays, Saturday, you can hear it pretty - - 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: Is it worse in the 16 Summer or in the Winter, or is it the same? 17 THE WITNESS: It's - - It's pretty much 18 the same. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. That's all I 20 have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Harvey, did I hear 24 you correctly? You said that this was a constant 25 problem until June of 2006? 00021 1 THE WITNESS: No. I said that I 2 resided in the building since June of 2006, and 3 it has been a constant problem since. 4 ALDERMAN BOHL: Since - - Since you 5 first moved in. 6 THE WITNESS: Since I moved in. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Gotcha'. Thank you for 8 the clarification. 9 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: There was - - There was 12 some testimony from the gentleman before you of 13 some improvements that the bar made, and that 14 those improvements made some difference. Do you 15 see any improvements that they've made at the bar 16 that has made a difference to you as far as noise 17 or you being disturbed on a constant basis? 18 THE WITNESS: I have noticed no 19 improvement since I've lived in the facility. 20 And I've only lived there since June of 2006. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - I have a 23 couple questions to you. Did you - - When - - 24 When you are inconvenienced by the noise, is it 25 this - - is it this low level vibration like - - 00022 1 like that - - 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - carries, or is 4 it - - is it the louder - - 5 THE WITNESS: It's mostly the music. 6 And it's - - And it's almost always the music. 7 Although, they are loud and boisterous, in 8 particular, on Saturday nights, but that part of 9 it is not the - - It's not the aggravating part 10 for me. It's the constant music that's - - 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is it - - Is it 12 this low level bass though that's like - - 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. It's - - It's a 14 thumping bass sound. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you 16 very much. 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 19 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Sir, is there no 20 other bars in the area, no other means that the 21 noise that you can hear is being emanated from? 22 THE WITNESS: I hear no other music 23 since that bar has been shut down. 24 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 00023 1 testimony. 2 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, I'm sorry. 4 I'm sorry, sir, Mr. Harvey. Go ahead. Go ahead. 5 MR. PYZYK: Thank you, Mr. Witkowiak. 6 Mr. Harvey, since you've been there since June of 7 '06, do you also hear the noise from the bands 8 regarding our well-known City of Milwaukee 9 festivals and - - and events downtown, such as 10 Bastille Days. Do you hear those - - that music? 11 THE WITNESS: No, not from where I 12 live. 13 MR. PYZYK: You don't hear that at all? 14 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 15 MR. PYZYK: Do you hear anything from 16 Jazz in the Park in Cathedral Square? 17 THE WITNESS: I hear the people. 18 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Have the people been 19 a problem here? You've said that the noise - - 20 It's the noise from the music that bother you. I 21 have that - - 22 THE WITNESS: That is correct. 23 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Not the people. 24 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 25 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Thank you. 00024 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 2 testimony. 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Sorry. Alderman 5 Bauman. 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. Mr. 7 Harvey, you understand that you live at a 8 location with many bars in the vicinity? 9 THE WITNESS: I do. 10 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And to the best of 11 your knowledge have you ever been woken from your 12 sleep or otherwise disturbed by the music 13 emanating from any other establishment on 14 Milwaukee Street or on Mason Street, other than 15 this establishment? 16 THE WITNESS: No. 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 19 testimony, Mr. Harvey. Next person to testify in 20 opposition? 21 THE WITNESS: My name is Cheryl Harvey. 22 I'm Charles' wife. I live at 741 North 23 Milwaukee. We've been there since June 16th of 24 2006. I would have to say that in addition to 25 the music I am disturbed by the patrons of the 00025 1 bar, as well. That hasn't occurred since the 2 third week of February when they were shut down, 3 but prior to that time I also was disturbed by 4 the patrons. They will come out of that 5 facility, and they hold conversations, and 6 because we're on the eighth floor, there's 7 something about that street. It's like a tunnel 8 effect. All of the noise just flows upward, and 9 it sounds like it's coming from a microphone or 10 something. But they hold conversations from one 11 corner to the next. When the police come, I hear 12 all of that. I see it, and I've seen people go 13 into the alley in between the Milwaukee Athletic 14 Club and Karl Ratzsch's. I am assuming that 15 they're going to the bathroom. I don't know. I 16 can only assume. But there's just a lot going 17 on, and because I'm a late owl, I see that on the 18 weekends. I look out the window. I see what's 19 going on. Because I hear the noise, it draws me 20 to the window. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mrs. 22 Harvey. Questions for - - Mr. Schrimpf? 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are you awoken from your 24 sleep, ma'am, during these episodes? 25 THE WITNESS: No. 00026 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are you just up? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. Would you - - 4 THE WITNESS: Usually I'm up. I'm 5 reading. I may be sitting there doing paperwork. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Do you adjust your 7 schedule so you don't get woken up, or is that 8 just your schedule? 9 THE WITNESS: I've - - I've not been 10 awakened - - One time, just once awakened out of 11 my sleep. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 13 THE WITNESS: But usually I was up. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. But it is 15 disturbing to you. 16 THE WITNESS: Very much so. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Question. The - - 19 The disturbances that - - that - - that you hear, 20 can you absolutely attribute it to that place and 21 not one of the other bars like around the corner? 22 THE WITNESS: Well, I see it, too - - 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. So when 24 you - - 25 THE WITNESS: - - when I go to the 00027 1 window. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - hear the 3 disturbance, you look out the window, and you see 4 that it came from there? 5 THE WITNESS: Right. I know it's 6 coming from the bar. And - - And we also, of 7 course, have the - - the decks or porches, and 8 you can go out and it's right there, too, if you 9 - - if you have to see where it's coming from, 10 specifically. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Ma'am, you - - you 14 haven't noticed any difference in - - in the 15 noise level based on some of the improvements, 16 the changes that the establishment tried to make. 17 THE WITNESS: I am not aware of any 18 improvements, because we just came in June of 19 '06. 20 ALDERMAN WADE: But - - Since you've 21 been there it hasn't changed at all. 22 THE WITNESS: Exactly. Right. 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Exactly. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Counselor, do you 25 have any questions of this witness? 00028 1 MR. PYZYK: Mrs. Harvey, you say you 2 see people come out and then go down the alleyway 3 between Karl Ratzsch's and Euro Cafe Bar. 4 THE WITNESS: That's infrequent. 5 MR. PYZYK: That's infrequent. 6 THE WITNESS: Right. Basically, 7 they're loitering outside of the establishment. 8 Folks come out. They don't go directly to their 9 cars or go where they're going. They come out 10 and they loiter. And they hold conversations, or 11 they're screaming and hollering. And they're 12 just outside of the place. 13 MR. PYZYK: And if they're waiting for 14 their car to be brought around by the valet - - 15 THE WITNESS: No. They're holding 16 conversations. 17 MR. PYZYK: Okay. You said you assume, 18 you don't know what they're doing in the 19 alleyway, you're assuming they're urinating, but 20 you don't know that as a fact. Correct? 21 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. You're 22 right. 23 MR. PYZYK: Okay. I have nothing 24 further, Mr. Chairman. 25 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair. 00029 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Ms. Harvey, you are 3 aware that this bar closed on February 21st, 4 2007. 5 THE WITNESS: I am. 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Could you describe 7 for us and the committee what, if any, changes 8 has occurred in terms of what you've observed in 9 terms of the loitering, disorderly conduct, the 10 loud talking and the music you previously 11 described? 12 THE WITNESS: Great improvement. 13 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Could you embellish 14 on that, please? 15 THE WITNESS: There's nothing going on 16 in regards to noise, loudness. We are not 17 bothered anymore in regards to the - - the 18 echoing effect that we get outside of our 19 windows. That's not happening anymore. 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: To the best of your 21 knowledge, are all the other bars on Water - - on 22 Milwaukee Street still in operation during that 23 same time period? 24 THE WITNESS: Except for Kennedees. It 25 closed for a little while. They are doing some 00030 1 remodeling or something, and I don't know if 2 they've reopened. But the other ones, yes, 3 they're still open. 4 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 5 MR. PYZYK: Mrs. Harvey, are you saying 6 that people that are just talking loud are 7 disorderly? 8 THE WITNESS: I am. I'm saying they're 9 causing a disturbance, because they're not simply 10 talking loud. They're screaming, trying to get 11 somebody's attention that's way down by Broadway. 12 MR. PYZYK: And - - And is this - - Are 13 these people that you have seen coming out of the 14 Euro - - of the bar, Cafe Bar or - - 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And how many times 17 have you seen this happen? 18 THE WITNESS: It would be two, three 19 times a month. 20 MR. PYZYK: All right. 21 THE WITNESS: Just about every weekend. 22 MR. PYZYK: Have you personally called, 23 or your husband personally called the police 24 department? 25 THE WITNESS: No. No. 00031 1 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Nothing further. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I have a question. 3 What - - What time of day have you heard this 4 screaming and seen this, roughly? 5 THE WITNESS: I'd say after midnight. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: After midnight. 7 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 9 Thank you for your testimony. 10 THE WITNESS: My name is Paul Stanosz. 11 I live in the Grain Exchange Condominiums at 741 12 North Milwaukee Street on the third floor, across 13 from the Euro Cafe. 14 My experience has been, and I've - - 15 I've lived in the building since the Euro has 16 opened. My experience has been that I've been 17 awakened, I would estimate, 40 to 50 times since 18 the Euro opened. I have not been awakened since 19 they've closed. 20 What I've observed after I've been 21 woken up, typically it's - - it's been Friday or 22 Saturdays, sometimes during the Summer it's more 23 likely to be Thursday night, as well. But not 24 only did I observe people, what might be called 25 loud conversations or people shouting at one 00032 1 another out on the street after bar time, I've 2 routinely observed people out in the street, 3 running around and acting, I don't know, since I 4 didn't Breathalyze them, but they appear to have 5 been drinking a lot. And they're out in the 6 street, and I've seen incidents where cars have 7 pulled up and - - and very quickly pulled away. 8 And it - - It appears to me from - - from my 9 window to be a dangerous sort of situation. I've 10 also been awakened by the police lights, when the 11 police have been called to the place. 12 And I - - I should add, too, I - - I 13 came - - I work in the suburbs. I choose to live 14 in Milwaukee, and I came here from Bronx, New 15 York, and I've lived in Manhattan and am very 16 used to living in an urban environment. But I've 17 never, either in the Bronx or Manhattan, living 18 with a whole lot of more people densely packed 19 together than is the case in downtown Milwaukee, 20 I've never experienced anything like what I've 21 gone through the last year and a half to two 22 years with so routinely being woken up by, not 23 only the music. At times it's been the music. 24 The music has not been as bad since they stopped 25 opening their - - their windows. When they - - 00033 1 When they first opened, they would have the 2 windows open and the music blaring out, which was 3 incredibly rude and inconsiderate to people who 4 lived in the neighborhood. 5 And I still, on occasion, will hear the 6 thump-thump, and I'm on the third floor, which is 7 - - puts me fairly close and directly across from 8 them. And I should say, I have a corner unit, so 9 I also observe what goes on on Milwaukee Street, 10 and have not been awoken by people coming out of 11 those bars, like I have been awoken by people 12 coming out of Euro. And it just seems that Euro 13 was operated in a different - - different way, 14 because I don't get bothered by - - I mean, I 15 have a clear view of Milwaukee Street. I have a 16 clear view of what goes on across the street from 17 me, and the problems have been coming from across 18 the street until they closed a few weeks ago. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 20 questions by members of the committee of Mr. 21 Stanosz? Have you noticed - - Have you noticed a 22 difference since the club has been closed? 23 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I - - I sleep much 24 better. I haven't been awakened on any weekends 25 since they've closed. 00034 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Have you ever 2 called the police? 3 THE WITNESS: No, I have not. I've 4 left that to my neighbors, Tony and Jodell have 5 routinely called, and I've let them do that. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Questions 7 by members of the committee? Mr. Pyzyk. 8 MR. PYZYK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 Mr. Stanosz, your bedroom, does your bedroom face 10 on the Mason side street of your unit or the 11 Milwaukee side? 12 THE WITNESS: The bedroom faces the 13 Mason Street side. 14 MR. PYZYK: So really you wouldn't have 15 the benefit of any disturbance or music on 16 Milwaukee Street if your bedroom and the window 17 or your patio door, correct, faces the Mason 18 side? 19 THE WITNESS: Depends on - - on what 20 time I - - I go to bed. I tend to stay up rather 21 late, and I would - - I'm aware of, because I 22 spent a lot of time in the other part of the 23 condominium, so I - - I - - I would be aware if 24 there were noise coming from the Milwaukee Street 25 side. 00035 1 MR. PYZYK: Okay. 2 THE WITNESS: I - - Can I also add, 3 too, that I sleep with a fan on at night, which I 4 began doing after the Euro opened, and on 5 weekends I sleep with two fans on in order to 6 block out - - try to block out the noise. 7 MR. PYZYK: Nothing further, Mr. 8 Chairman. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 10 testimony, Mr. Stanosz. Next person to testify 11 in opposition? 12 THE WITNESS: My name is Jodell, J-O-D- 13 E-L-L, Swenson, S-W-E-N-S-O-N. And you've seen 14 me here before. I live at 741 North Milwaukee 15 Street, number 304. I'm on the Mason Street side 16 of the building, and both my living room and my 17 bedroom face directly across the street to Euro. 18 I've been there since August - - Or, I'm sorry 19 - - April 2nd, 2002. So next week will be five 20 years. Again, never regretted buying property in 21 a mixed use neighborhood until this club opened 22 up a little over three years after I moved in 23 there. 24 Prior to Euro opening up, I was able to 25 sleep through the night, even with other clubs in 00036 1 the area. I didn't have problems with music, 2 even though there's other clubs in the area. And 3 the last month has been a phenomenal gift to me. 4 I've been able to watch a movie in my living room 5 with the windows closed, heater on, and not have 6 additional sound track, this thump-thump that 7 you're hearing about from other people. It's 8 constant, Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday 9 night. Again, windows closed, heater or air 10 conditioner on, hear it inside the units. I've 11 slept through the night since the bar closed. I 12 haven't been awoken by crowd noise from any of 13 the other bars. 14 And, I mean, realistically they have 15 caused me problems at work, where during the 16 week, especially on Thursday nights, the crowd 17 noise at bar time, so two o'clock Friday morning, 18 jolts me awake, sometimes I'm able to fall back 19 asleep after 15, 20 minutes. Sometimes it takes 20 longer than that. Sometimes it takes longer than 21 that for them to clear the crowds, where I've 22 actually gone out on my balcony and just waited 23 for at what point are they going to start trying 24 to get people out of here. Where you have people 25 standing on the sidewalk, talking, yelling, 00037 1 screaming at each other. As people have 2 mentioned, stumbling in the street, standing in 3 the street, talking and yelling at each other. 4 This happens on a frequent basis. And again, the 5 last month I've seen none of that activity and 6 heard none of that activity in the neighborhood. 7 And for me, I think it's reasonable to expect I 8 should be able to stay in my home with my windows 9 closed and not hear a club's music. And the last 10 two nights I've been able to sleep with the 11 windows open. Prior to Euro opening, I was able 12 to do that. If they reopen, I won't be able to 13 do that, except on Sundays when they're closed. 14 And I think that's it. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. In 16 case we didn't do this before, I want to - - 17 Alderman Bohl wants to move to make the entire 18 transcript from the previous meeting relative to 19 this establishment be made part of the permanent 20 record in this hearing. And hearing no 21 objections, so ordered. You testified at the 22 previous hearing. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. How many 25 times did you call the police? 00038 1 THE WITNESS: I've personally called 2 the police at least 15 times. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And you have that 4 documented. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And - - And that 7 documentation was - - was shown to us at the 8 previous meeting. Did - - I - - I want to know, 9 Mr. Pyzyk, do you have any questions of her about 10 her documentation, calling the police department? 11 We - - We went through that all in the first 12 hearing. 13 MR. PYZYK: And I - - I read the 14 transcript, Mr. Chairman. I don't - - I don't 15 believe regarding the document itself, no. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 17 MR. PYZYK: And certainly it's been 18 previously entered, you know, it's part of the 19 past record. It's part of this record. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't want to 21 pile on. 22 MR. PYZYK: No. No. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I just want to 24 make it clear that she came here and gave more 25 extensive testimony at the first meeting, 00039 1 including her documentation. We've been asking 2 people, like, did you call the police. They say, 3 well, no, I didn't - - 4 MR. PYZYK: Right. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Somebody else did, 6 so. 7 MR. PYZYK: Right. No, I understand. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So she actually 9 documented that - - her calls to the police. 10 Okay. Any questions by members of the committee? 11 Do you have any questions of this witness? 12 MR. PYZYK: I do have a couple, Mr. 13 Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 15 MR. PYZYK: Thank you. Ms. Swenson, 16 you - - you previously testified that Euro has 17 never been a good neighbor. "In 20 months 18 they've never made an effort to work with us," 19 meaning the Condo Association. Do you recall 20 making that statement? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 22 MR. PYZYK: All right. And you've 23 heard me ask Mr. Durand regarding the different 24 things that I'm going to state for this committee 25 that have been done by my clients. Putting on 00040 1 that lobby vestibule addition onto the front door 2 area, that isn't being a good neighbor and 3 cooperating with the association like they asked 4 them to? 5 THE WITNESS: First, it took months to 6 get that to happen, and that has helped with the 7 extremely loud bursts of music. 8 MR. PYZYK: All right. 9 THE WITNESS: It has not helped with 10 the ongoing music. 11 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Is it - - Is it your 12 intent that you want it to be as quiet, closed, 13 as they have been in the last months since 14 February 21st, 22nd, as you want it the same 15 quiet that when they're up and in business? Is 16 that what you're asking for? 17 THE WITNESS: I - - I acknowledge I 18 live in the city. I choose to live in the city. 19 I expect to be able to be in my home without 20 hearing music from the club across the street. I 21 expect to not have crowd noise, you know, crowds 22 standing outside for 15, 20, 30 minutes after bar 23 time, yelling, screaming, shouting at each other. 24 MR. PYZYK: So your answer to my 25 question is you want it as quiet when they're out 00041 1 of business as when they're in business. Is that 2 a correct assessment? 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I'll ask that her 4 answer be read back. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Pardon? 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I just ask that her 7 last answer be read back. We're being a little 8 tit for tat here about who answered the question 9 correctly. Just have the question read back. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 11 (Answer read back.) 12 MR. PYZYK: So is your answer to my 13 question, yes? 14 THE WITNESS: I am - - I don't think 15 it's realistic to have perfect calm in the city, 16 but I have not had problems since the bar has 17 been closed. 18 MR. PYZYK: Ms. Swenson, have you ever 19 made this - - Do you know whose - - whose Tom's 20 clubs are - - or Tom's clubs on - - on Milwaukee 21 - - Milwaukee Street? 22 THE WITNESS: I'm not familiar with the 23 term Tom's clubs. 24 MR. PYZYK: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: Is that the owner or the 00042 1 operator or? 2 MR. PYZYK: Whatever. Like 3 Tangerine's, a couple of them that are under the 4 same ownership. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 MR. PYZYK: Are you familiar with those 7 clubs? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am. 9 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Have you ever made a 10 statement - - Have you ever made a statement that 11 you don't have a problem with those on Milwaukee 12 Street, but that you don't want these Europeans 13 around here? 14 THE WITNESS: Pardon me? 15 MR. PYZYK: No, I'm just ask - - I'm 16 just asking a question. Have you ever stated 17 that, that you don't want these Europeans around 18 here? 19 THE WITNESS: I have never said that. 20 If there's some sort of testimony to that, it was 21 a mis-transcript of something about Euro, not 22 Europeans. 23 MR. PYZYK: Okay. All right. Nothing 24 further, Mr. Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 00043 1 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Did I - - Before I 3 go any further, did I - - did I ask the Health 4 Department and Neighborhood Services for their 5 - - Are - - Do you guys have - - Do you guys have 6 anything? Okay. You - - You may be excused. I 7 thought you were being so well entertained that 8 you just wanted to stay and pick up some 9 overtime. Thank Alderman Bohl for that. 10 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: If we could re-call 11 Ms. Swenson. I do have a question or two. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 13 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And while you're 14 getting up here, I'll - - I'll ask the question. 15 The issue has come up, and I'm sure will come up, 16 about the discrepancy between your testimony as 17 to how many times the police were called, what 18 the police will testify as to how many times they 19 were called. So who did you call exactly when 20 you called the police department, and what was 21 the nature of the conversations you had with 22 whoever it was on the other end of the line, and 23 who did you understand you were talking to? 24 THE WITNESS: I called the non- 25 emergency number, and requested that an officer 00044 1 come out to address the noise concerns. I have 2 had actually officers in my condo. One of my key 3 learnings from this has been that not long after 4 Euro opened, the officers were in my condo. They 5 said that they would issue a citation if I chose 6 to do so. I said I wanted to be a good neighbor, 7 and to please go tell the bar owner that they 8 could have been issued a citation, but I chose 9 not to. I later found out that that doesn't then 10 go into the permanent record, and have since 11 found out that none of the calls go into the 12 record, even though we have called and police 13 have responded. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: To the best of your 15 knowledge, you spoke to a dispatcher? 16 THE WITNESS: They give you like an 17 operator number, something something 53, or - - 18 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Did you ever call a 19 police officer directly on their private lines or 20 cell phones or anything of that sort? 21 THE WITNESS: No. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You said there were 23 police officers in your apartment in connection 24 with some of the complaints you made? 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. 00045 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: On how many - - how 2 many occasions did that - - 3 THE WITNESS: Once. 4 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Once, okay. 5 THE WITNESS: And then I've met with 6 them outside, as well. 7 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: How many times did 8 you actually have face-to-face meeting with 9 members of the Milwaukee Police Department 10 regarding the Euro Bar? 11 THE WITNESS: Probably three or four. 12 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And do you - - Are 13 the two officers sitting here the officers you 14 met with? Do you recognize them? 15 THE WITNESS: I apologize. I don't 16 recognize them. 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. Thank you. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl - - 20 Alderman Puente. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: You called 22 approximately 15 times. Is that correct? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And out of those 15 25 times you've only met officers three or four 00046 1 times? 2 THE WITNESS: I have seen the officers 3 pull up outside the bar much more frequently than 4 that, but actually met with them, probably three 5 or four. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So out of the 15 7 calls, how many times did you see police 8 officers? 9 THE WITNESS: Did I see them outside 10 and pull up to the bar? 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Correct. 12 THE WITNESS: I think every time. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And when you say that 14 it's not part of the record when you called, who 15 told you that, exactly? 16 THE WITNESS: When the record's been 17 read back here at the last testimony, the calls 18 are not in any sort of official record. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Because 20 they're all documented, so I don't know who told 21 you that, but - - 22 THE WITNESS: Okay. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Yeah. You might be 24 referring to the tavern report, but every 25 assignment gets a CAD number. 00047 1 THE WITNESS: Great. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So. Just so you 3 understand that. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I don't know who told 6 you that or - - But obviously you explained 7 yourself, but every call that comes in gets a CAD 8 number. 9 THE WITNESS: Good to know. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: There is some type of 11 documentation. All right. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 13 person to testify in opposition? Okay. That's 14 the end of the testimony from the opposition. 15 Let's - - I'd like to hear the testimony from the 16 people in support now. Same thing. Step up to 17 the microphone. State your name and address. 18 THE WITNESS: Hi. I'm Patty Keating 19 Kahn. I am a building owner in downtown 20 Milwaukee. I own two, what I consider, are major 21 office buildings, and they're both historic 22 landmarks. So I am one of the people who tries 23 to protect downtown from any kind of marring or 24 anybody, you know, taking down an old landmark. 25 And I'm doing renovations in those buildings. 00048 1 The Greater Milwaukee Community a few 2 years ago - - I - - I bought the building - - My 3 husband and I actually bought the building in 4 1998 from members of his family, although the 5 Colby - Abbott building, where we have the Euro 6 Bar, has been in my husband's family since 1926. 7 We have a big reputation to uphold. We care 8 about the neighborhood. We care about our 9 personal reputations in the community. Both of 10 us are professionals in the community. We're 11 very active in politics. We're active in 12 community nonprofit organizations, and we 13 wouldn't do things - - Uh-oh. 14 Listen to that loud music. Turn that 15 off. Quick. Get that off. I can't stand it. 16 All right. Sir, I'd like to issue a citation. 17 Anyways. 18 If you recall, and I'm sure the 19 aldermen in this - - who are concerned about 20 downtown - - 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hold on a second. 22 THE WITNESS: Okay. Back about - - I'm 23 not sure of the date, but when the Metro - - 24 Hotel Metro was built, was renovated, that 25 building was renovated by Jamie Hammert and the 00049 1 Ogdens, and so on. The street was dead. No one 2 had a place on the street, if you recall. All 3 the storefronts were empty. Now, the Greater 4 Milwaukee Committee took it upon themselves to 5 create a plan for Milwaukee Street and its 6 neighborhood to become a vibrant, vital downtown 7 entity, and it has. They succeeded. We 8 succeeded. As business owners on the street, we 9 have succeeded in making downtown Milwaukee an 10 exciting and wonderful place to visit. Lots of 11 people come downtown. In fact, I have seen 12 people drive in their cars out - - out in front 13 of my building, park their cars, and change their 14 clothes in their cars to go into the Milwaukee 15 Street bars, because they're not dressed 16 appropriately. In, you know - - And so it's an 17 upscale neighborhood. It's not a sleazy 18 neighborhood. There are not people - - And - - 19 And I can tell you why I know that. My husband 20 and I are concerned about the neighborhood. Of 21 course. We own the building, and we want it to 22 stay vibrant. We want it to stay viable. So 23 when we had the empty space - - Prentice 24 Securities had that space before, you may recall. 25 they were there for like 30 years, and they went 00050 1 out of business. We had the choice to make - - 2 to try to sell that space again or lease it as a 3 - - an office. But because of the downtown plan, 4 the plan for Milwaukee Street, and the fact that 5 retail and nightclubs and restaurants was the - - 6 was the push that the Greater Milwaukee Committee 7 put into their plan, we decided to gut that 8 space, take out all the amenities that were for 9 an office, and start from scratch. 10 We had numerous people come through 11 looking at that space. Over and over again, I 12 kept meeting with people who, of course, wanted 13 to open a bar. And every time, because I have 14 hundreds of tenants, literally hundreds of 15 tenants, I know how to determine which ones are 16 going to be good tenants and which ones are not. 17 I can also meet people and tell which people are 18 to be trusted and those who are not. I met Tony. 19 He came in. I had rejected dozens of people who 20 wanted to do the restaurant. Some of them are - 21 - actua - - or to do the bar. I have actually 22 seen some of them go ahead and start other 23 places. Cans, for example, on - - near Bra - - 24 near North Avenue near Beans and Barley, I don't 25 know. They wanted to open downtown. I thought 00051 1 that would be a little too loud, a little too, 2 you know, wouldn't be right for our neighborhood. 3 We wanted upscale. We have - - We have 4 professional offices above us, and my biggest 5 concern was protecting the offices and protecting 6 our reputation in the neighborhood. 7 So when Tony came in to see me and 8 said, "I love this location. Can we talk about 9 opening a club here," I - - I asked him a lot of 10 questions. This was not an easy - - an easy 11 decision for me. And - - 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Patty, if I 13 could - - 14 THE WITNESS: Go faster. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No. No, no. No, 16 no. You have - - You have to stick to the 17 subject at hand. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You're getting - - 20 You're getting off on - - I appreciate - - I 21 appreciate everything. 22 THE WITNESS: All right. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You're getting off 24 on too many tangents here. 25 THE WITNESS: All right. And I 00052 1 appreciate that. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You have to stick 3 to the - - the subject matter. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thanks. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is the - - the 6 disturbance that - - 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Well, okay. I 8 selected the people that I wanted there because 9 they were going - - the concept they had was an 10 upscale place, and they have lived up to their 11 promise to me. They are excellent tenants. They 12 pay their rent on time. Every time that we've 13 had a conversation, and I've had something to 14 discuss with them, let's say for example, you 15 know, what time - - Oh, they open the building at 16 four o'clock. They open the door into the lobby 17 of our building, and we have happy hour, and our 18 tenants love it. They don't play the music 19 loudly, because some people work until five. At 20 five o'clock they can turn on the music. 21 Now, I don't know why the music isn't a 22 problem at five o'clock to the tenants across the 23 street, but it's not to our tenants in - - in the 24 office building. Zero complaints, none. And 25 I've even asked the tenants who are on the second 00053 1 floor above them. No complaints. 2 The other part about that is when the 3 tenants have - - I knew Lynn Springers and Mike 4 Gousha, who owned a condo across the street in 5 the Grain Exchange. Lynn was active on the Condo 6 Association Board. She's a friend of mine. She 7 called me and she said, "Could you come over and 8 talk to the board?" I know that you are a 9 responsible building owner. Help us out. So we 10 went through the list of complaints, and Jodell 11 was at that meeting, and, Eric, you were there, 12 too. Right? Or is Eric gone? 13 AUDIENCE: The other Eric. 14 THE WITNESS: The other Eric, okay. 15 And we talked about issues like a flyer that was 16 being distributed by a marketing company that 17 Tony and Spiro had hired. I took that flyer to 18 them. They fired that marketing guy right away. 19 This is not something where they said, "Oh, no, 20 Patty, this is what's going to bring us business 21 and therefore we're keeping on." No, they did 22 not. They - - They fired that marketing 23 promotions guy immediately They said the noise 24 was too loud, and we made an agreement then for a 25 ten o'clock window closing at that time. Well, 00054 1 they decided - - They took it upon themselves to 2 close the windows permanently rather than even 3 having them open until ten. Just not to bother 4 the tenants across the street. Every time I saw 5 these - - these two guys they would say to me, we 6 need to help the people across the street live 7 here better. And they didn't say it with - - 8 with a snide attitude. They said it with great 9 sincerity. And so, then they spent thousand of 10 dollars on the vestibule. Now, the Harveys moved 11 in after the vestibule was built, so I don't know 12 how they could talk about what was - - Because I 13 think you must have bought the Gousha/Springers 14 condo. Right? 15 MR. HARVEY: Yeah, that's why - - 16 THE WITNESS: That's part of it. 17 That's - - Because she's a friend of mine, no, I 18 know many more reasons why they moved. But - - 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: That was among the 20 reasons, because I'll speak to that, as well. 21 THE WITNESS: That is one reason. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: That's what they 23 expressed to me. 24 THE WITNESS: That's right. 25 ALDERMAN WADE: That may be hearsay, 00055 1 Mr. Chair. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Well, since it - - 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. All 4 right. All right. Let's - - Wait a minute. 5 Wait a minute, now. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Those are - - 7 Those are - - We have at every turn - - 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Wait. You've got 9 to stop going off on tangents, okay, or I'm going 10 to cut off your testimony. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Regardless of how 13 valuable you think it is. These people already 14 testified, heard them testify that they moved in 15 after the enclosure was there, and they were 16 still woken by the noise. They don't know how it 17 was before. They already testified to that. I 18 heard that. 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: We're not going to 21 have you start talking to the audience, have you 22 start talking to him, start talking to him. It's 23 not going to happen. And the next time that I 24 have to - - The next time I have to slow this 25 meeting down, we're just going to take a break, 00056 1 and then we're going to - - we're going to 2 reconvene at 11 o'clock, so that's your - - 3 that's your choice. So let's all - - Let's stick 4 to the issue. Don't go off on tangents. Don't 5 start talking to people in the audience. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: We have to run 8 this very organized. You have to appreciate 9 that. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. I don't know how 11 these run, so, I don't - - 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: This is a 13 difficult job, and I'll tell you what - - 14 THE WITNESS: I don't do this very 15 often. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And I'll tell you, 17 sometimes - - Sometimes it aggravates us that a 18 lot of these things should be taken care of 19 before it rises to the - - 20 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - to the 22 occasion to come to this table. 23 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. I agree. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: But you, as a 25 building owner - - You, as a building owner, 00057 1 should know more about your tenants than you do. 2 But go ahead. 3 THE WITNESS: I go - - My husband and I 4 monitor the noise, because of what - - of the 5 meeting that I attended, and I do know what's 6 going on with my tenants. I walk - - I have 7 gotten up, you know, at midnight. I don't 8 usually go out at midnight. But I get up, and 9 I'll drive downtown. I'll stand on the sidewalk 10 across the street from the Euro Bar, and there - 11 - You can't hear any noise. You cannot hear any 12 noise. I don't understand - - We have done that 13 on numerous occasions. We've done it in the 14 Summer. We've done it in the Winter. If - - If 15 I can't hear noise, I don't understand how that 16 can - - how that can be affecting other people in 17 the neighborhood. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Patty, where do 19 you live? 20 THE WITNESS: I live on the east side 21 on Summit Avenue. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. So you're 23 not - - 24 THE WITNESS: Near the university. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You're not there 00058 1 every night then. 2 THE WITNESS: Not every night, no, but 3 I do come down on weekends, a lot. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: Because it's my building. 6 It's my business, and I am careful to take care 7 of it. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 9 THE WITNESS: So I'm there a lot to 10 make sure that it's - - that what I'm hearing and 11 what I'm - - what I'm - - I have to see it 12 firsthand. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: So those are the things 15 that I've observed, you know, and I've talked to 16 the police. I've talked to other people in the 17 neighborhood who don't have the same feelings. I 18 have seen, since the Euro Bar has been closed, 19 and I have come down to monitor during that 20 period of time, that the noise level has not 21 changed. That the number of people standing on 22 the streets has not changed. Because Tangerine, 23 Kennedees and Eve are still open. And Ouzo Bar 24 - - Ouzo Cafe stays open after hours, and the 25 people from the neighborhood go there. And 00059 1 that's very noisy, and they admit to that, and 2 they love it. It's business. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions - - 6 Stay there. Any questions by members of the 7 committee? Mr. Pyzyk, any questions? 8 MR. PYZYK: No, Mr. Chairman. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman? 10 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: How many times have 11 you stood across the street from the Euro Bar on 12 Mason Street at midnight? 13 THE WITNESS: I would say two dozen. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Over two years. 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And for how long did 17 you stand there each time, approximately? 18 THE WITNESS: Oh, probably 20 minutes, 19 25 minutes. 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And you're saying you 21 - - that you couldn't hear any noise. That's 22 your testimony? 23 THE WITNESS: No. Have you done that, 24 Alderman Bauman? 25 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Excuse me? 00060 1 THE WITNESS: Have you ever done it? 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I'm not testifying. 3 THE WITNESS: All right. I'm just 4 asking. 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I'm not testifying. 6 I'm representing my constituents here - - 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just, please - - 8 please answer his questions. 9 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: - - who have a 10 serious problem with this establishment. Please 11 answer the question. 12 THE WITNESS: I did. I have not - - I 13 cannot hear the music coming from Euro. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You cannot - - Okay. 15 So you cannot hear any music coming from Euro - - 16 THE WITNESS: No. 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: - - standing across 18 the street at midnight for over two dozen times 19 over the last two years. 20 THE WITNESS: That's right. When the 21 door is closed, and - - and their - - and the 22 windows are closed. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So the testimony of 24 the four witnesses who have previously testified 25 from the Grain Exchange Condo, you're telling us 00061 1 that they basically don't know what they're 2 talking about. 3 THE WITNESS: I think that's what's 4 happened here is it's a snowball thing. When 5 Euro first opened, there were a lot of noise 6 problems, and it was - - it was very disruptive. 7 But over the course of these 20 months, they have 8 cleaned it all up, and changed the entire 9 operation. So that's why. But some people can't 10 let that go. 11 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So initially when you 12 started going down there at midnight, the initial 13 couple of two dozen times, and you stood across 14 the street, you did hear noise. 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was out there. 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Ah, so - - so you 17 heard noise initially when you started going down 18 there at midnight. 19 THE WITNESS: After the vestibule was 20 in place and after the windows were closed, which 21 is what I said, you cannot hear noise. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Ah, so - - Now your 23 testimony is that after the vestibule was 24 installed, then you have gone - - 25 THE WITNESS: Last June. 00062 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: - - on two dozen 2 occasions and you've stood across the street and 3 heard no noise. 4 THE WITNESS: That's what I said, yes. 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So after the 6 vestibule was installed. 7 THE WITNESS: That's right. 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Not before the 9 vestibule was - - 10 THE WITNESS: That's right. 11 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You admit here today 12 that prior to the vestibule being installed, 13 there was a substantial amount of noise being 14 generated. 15 THE WITNESS: There was some noise, 16 yes. 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. Thank you. 18 THE WITNESS: But in every case, they 19 turned - - turned it down to accommodate. And 20 when I had the meeting with the association 21 owners, Tony and Spiro both turned down the 22 music. You have to test a business before you 23 know how - - how it's going to impact the 24 neighborhood. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any further 00063 1 questions of this witness? 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Ma'am, do you have 5 residential tenants in the same building that the 6 Euro Bar is in? 7 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: It's completely 9 commercial. 10 THE WITNESS: It's all offices and 11 retail. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. That's all I 13 have. Thank you. 14 THE WITNESS: Although people have 15 asked me to turn it into condos, and I don't 16 think it's a viable corner for condos. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I'm not sure that 18 was relevant. Mr. Schrimpf, were you finished? 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: I was done. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Schrimpf brings 23 up a question that I wanted to ask earlier, but 24 I'll do it at this time, seeing how he asked it. 25 What other residential area do you have here, 00064 1 other than this 741 North Milwaukee Street? 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: They're in the 3 closest proximity, there are some condominiums on 4 Milwaukee Street south of Mason on the west side 5 of Milwaukee. They are basically two and three 6 stories above existing bars. Kennedees is one, 7 and Tangerine is another, and the Vespa Store, 8 and there's some others. So there are basically 9 two and three story commercial, commercial first 10 floor, two and three floors of residential above, 11 and I have not heard complaints from any bars 12 from those establishments. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. And how far 14 are those places from the Euro Bar? 15 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Half a block to 16 three-quarters of a block. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 18 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And around the 19 corner. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And how many 21 people - - 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: More significantly, 23 around the corner. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Approximately how 25 many people live at 741 North Milwaukee - - 00065 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I'll let them answer 2 that question, but I think it's in the 3 neighborhood of 35 units, 32 units? 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And they're all 5 occupied? 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: 30 units. Are they 7 all occupied? 8 AUDIENCE: Yes. 9 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: They're all occupied. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. Thank 11 you, Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Next person 13 to testify in support? Name and address for the 14 record. 15 THE WITNESS: Hello. Susan Montgomery. 16 And I live at 545 East Wells in the Cathedral 17 Square Condominiums that face Cathedral Square. 18 My husband and I have lived there almost three 19 years. So - - 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far away is 21 that from Euro Cafe? 22 THE WITNESS: It's about two - - two 23 blocks, two and a half blocks. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And 25 your - - 00066 1 THE WITNESS: So I certainly - - I 2 don't hear the - - the Euro Bar from where we 3 live. But I do hear Jazz in the Park every 4 Thursday night, and I do hear lots of other 5 activities that go on in Cathedral Square. We 6 live on the fifth floor, so we're not very high 7 up. And it - - It took us a little bit of time 8 to get used to the noise, and there's a lot of 9 noise, lots of hollering, screaming, drunk 10 people. We also live right around the corner 11 from the Jefferson Street bars, Dino's, Taylor's 12 and so forth. So we're accustomed to the 13 downtown noise, and overall, we really like it. 14 And it has not disrupted our sleep, and it's 15 worked out well. 16 But I wanted to just speak to the 17 quality of the Euro Bar, and why I think this 18 license should be renewed, and we should go back 19 to the drawing board on trying to solve the 20 problem. And I - - I sympathize with your noise 21 issue. But - - And Bob Bauman, who is a friend 22 of ours, please correct me when I'm finished if 23 I'm wrong. But as I understand it, Bob did not 24 ever meet with person - - face-to-face with Spiro 25 and Tony, the owners of the Euro Bar before this 00067 1 first hearing or this last renewal hearing. And 2 I would like to see him want to make this work, 3 want to solve the neighbors' problem and want to 4 keep this bar going. 5 Todd and I frequent this bar. I would 6 say twice a month we go over there in the early 7 evening. We're members of the Milwaukee Athletic 8 Club. There's a number of people here, sometimes 9 when that bar gets full, we'll go over to the 10 Euro Bar. We like it. It's well pointed, it's a 11 beautiful place. It's upscale, as Patty said. 12 It's an asset to the neighborhood. Last Summer 13 we had a martini party there, a private party for 14 about 100 people for our daughter when she 15 finished her Medical School Fellowship. The Euro 16 Bar people went out of their way for us. They 17 created special martinis. They had beautiful 18 food. They were - - tremendous service, and 19 we've always had a good experience there. 20 We do occasionally, not too often, but 21 occasionally have been there late at night. The 22 crowd there late at night, younger than we are, 23 but they're having fun. It's the same kind of 24 crowd you see at Tangerine or at Eve or at 25 Kennedees, you know, they're rocking to the 00068 1 music. They're dressed nicely. They're polite. 2 I've never seen anything askance there. And I 3 think these people run around to the bars, too, 4 just because people are pouring out of the Euro 5 Bar doesn't mean that they weren't just at 6 Tangerine or Eve or Kennedees or one of the other 7 bars. 8 I would hate to see this bar close. 9 There are too many bars closing in downtown 10 Milwaukee. There are too many storefronts 11 boarded up. It's difficult enough to run a bar. 12 For instance, Brio just closed on Jefferson. 13 That was an asset to Jefferson Street. They 14 closed because they could not make it 15 financially. This bar, Spiro and Tony's bar, is 16 making it financially, and I think we need to 17 work with them to make this work. And to respect 18 the neighbors, but to make this work. And 19 they've obviously made tremendous efforts. They 20 have a whole series of steps of things they've 21 done with the windows and the vestibules and 22 turning the decibels down and all of this. And 23 there's more that can be done. I think it's too 24 valuable an asset just to - - to not renew their 25 license. 00069 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 2 questions of this witness? 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: You say you hear the 6 music from Jazz in the Park. Approximately how 7 far have you lived from the Jazz in the Park? 8 THE WITNESS: We live right on top of 9 it. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Across - - 11 THE WITNESS: Right across the street. 12 Yeah. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: We definitely hear it. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And so how far would 16 that be then, two and a half blocks from 741 17 North Milwaukee? 18 THE WITNESS: I say we're - - we're two 19 and a half blocks, where 741, right. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 22 questions of this witness? 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Pyzyk, go 25 ahead. 00070 1 MR. PYZYK: Alderman Bauman, go ahead. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Ms. Montgomery, the 3 martini bar, the private party you had, that was 4 what time of day or night? 5 THE WITNESS: It was like six to nine, 6 maybe. 7 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: P.m.? 8 THE WITNESS: P.m. 9 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: On a weekday, 10 weekend? 11 THE WITNESS: I think it was on a week 12 - - It was a Wednesday night. Um-hnh. 13 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Wednesday night, 14 okay. And you said you've gone in there on other 15 - - And, of course, there was no loud music on 16 that occasion. Correct? 17 THE WITNESS: We had a lot of music, 18 and it was loud. 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. 20 THE WITNESS: But it was our choice of 21 music. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And then you've been 23 in there on other occasions, as you mentioned, in 24 the early evening after leaving the MAC, for 25 example? 00071 1 THE WITNESS: Right. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Have you ever been in 3 there between the hours of midnight and bar 4 closing? 5 THE WITNESS: We have been there, say, 6 between 11 and one a.m. maybe three different 7 times. 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. And what did 9 you observe on those occasions? 10 THE WITNESS: Lots of young people. 11 The DJ going. People sometimes dancing. People 12 polite. People friendly. And Todd and I - - My 13 husband and I enjoy that. That's one reason we 14 moved downtown. We like - - And our kids, when 15 our kids come into town - - They - - they live 16 out of town. But they hop around all those bars 17 on Milwaukee, and the Euro Bar, and they like 18 them. 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. When you - - 20 On those three occasions that you were there 21 from - - 22 THE WITNESS: Approximately three. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: - - late evening, 24 early morning, let's say. 25 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 00072 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Did you have - - When 2 you left the establishment, did you happen to 3 stand outside across the street to see if you 4 could hear any noise? 5 THE WITNESS: You know, actually, since 6 this vestibule went in, two or three times when 7 I've left the MAC late at night, I - - And I knew 8 this issue. I had heard, of course, about this 9 issue, about the complaints from the neighbors. 10 I did stand across the street, and I did try to 11 hear the sound, and I did not hear the sound. I 12 mean, maybe barely very soft, and I realize the 13 sound may carry up, but it may be different right 14 on the street level than it is up higher. But I 15 did not hear it. It just doesn't seem to me to 16 be a major issue. 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: What time of night 18 were those occasions, when you stood outside 19 after - - 20 THE WITNESS: Midnight. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. On what day? 22 A weekend? A Friday, Saturday? 23 THE WITNESS: I'm sure it was a Friday 24 or Saturday. I don't stay out very late except 25 Fridays and Saturdays. 00073 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. Thank you. 2 THE WITNESS: Anyone else? 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Pyzyk? 4 MR. PYZYK: I don't, because Mr. Bauman 5 - - Alderman Bauman asked my questions, so. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 7 Thank you for your testimony. Next witness, 8 please, in support. 9 THE WITNESS: My name is Todd 10 Montgomery, and I live at 545 East Wells, and I'm 11 the junior half of - - of our team. Susan 12 Montgomery just gave some testimony. I'm here to 13 say that we really do enjoy the Euro Bar, the 14 design, the people who run it, the patrons who go 15 in it. I sympathize with the - - the sometimes 16 sound, or if there is a sound issue, I think that 17 can be addressed by the bar owners. I would like 18 to see our Alderman work cooperatively with 19 people who run establishments in downtown to try 20 to work through issue, rather than use the - - 21 the curmudgeon threat of we're going to shut you 22 down because you make too much noise. I'd like 23 to see the bar license renewed. I'd like to see 24 some letters and agreements put together, so that 25 these people can operate. They are an asset to 00074 1 the downtown region, to Milwaukee. And as my 2 wife said, we're used to the city sounds. We 3 live right on top of Jazz in the Park. We know 4 what Taylor's and - - and Brio and Dino's and so 5 forth do. We know what Tangerine does, 6 Kennedees, Eve, and so forth. We're excited 7 about that. We're excited about the Hotel Metro 8 and its bars and restaurants and its rooftop bar 9 that now exists. We'd like to see this and Euro 10 Bar continue. And we'd like to work 11 cooperatively with our Alderman, rather than have 12 the Alderman opposed to business development and 13 businesses operating in the downtown region. So 14 that's really what I'm here to do is - - and 15 reinforce what my wife has said, is that we think 16 that the downtown is a great place for people to 17 move. We sympathize with the neighbors across 18 the street, but we'd like to see this worked out 19 and give these people a chance. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Todd. 21 Any questions of this witness? 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So have you heard 25 loud music, late night disturbances, public 00075 1 urination, intoxication, fights or anything like 2 that? Disorderly conduct? 3 THE WITNESS: No. I mean, I've - - 4 I've lived in New York City, as one other 5 gentleman said he has. I've lived in Cleveland, 6 Ohio. I've lived in Cincinnati, San Diego. What 7 goes on in this city is no different than what 8 goes on in any other community in terms of at 9 midnight, people like turn on their motorcycles 10 and zoom up and down Wells Street. The sirens go 11 off when the Bell ambulance goes by. The fire 12 truck goes by when somebody pulls a fire alarm. 13 People drive in their cars and make loud noises. 14 Kids are laughing. 15 The - - The lines outside of Eve at 16 night, and Tangerine, are quite a bit longer and 17 louder and even more worrisome, as an adult, as a 18 parent, with these kids pouring out into the 19 street. I'd like to see the Alderman working 20 with these people, as well as with Euro Bar, to 21 make these things work more smoothly. To clean 22 out the parking areas, to figure out a way to - - 23 to move traffic better. I'd like to see the 24 police down there walking the beat. Not with - - 25 with citation pads in hand, but saying, hey, 00076 1 let's see how can we work this here. Your 2 windows are open, or please close the door, or so 3 forth. Not to use it in a confrontational way, 4 but in a cooperative way. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 7 questions of this witness. Mr. Pyzyk. 8 MR. PYZYK: No, Mr. Chairman. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next witness, 10 please, in - - in support. 11 THE WITNESS: My name is Emil Weji at 12 - - I live at 8246 West Hillview Drive. Many of 13 you here know me as Skip. 8246 West Hillview 14 Drive is in Mequon. There is no noise in Mequon. 15 As a matter of fact, noise is a perception. My 16 mother-in-law, who lives in West Allis, came to 17 our house to sleep, and she says, "I can't sleep 18 here." There's no noise. 19 I'm just speaking as a businessman. 20 I'm a salesperson. I have a lot of - - of 21 customers that I entertain in the City of 22 Milwaukee. I think the Euro Bar is a great asset 23 to the community. I've been in there several 24 times. And been in there at 11 o'clock, 12 25 o'clock, not much later than 12. And the noise 00077 1 hasn't bothered me as a patron. I've been to 2 other establishments in this neighborhood. About 3 20 years ago I had a customer from out of town 4 come here. I put him up at the Pfister, and I 5 picked him up for breakfast the next morning. He 6 said, "This is a very nice town, except there's 7 no people." That's changed now. That's changed. 8 We're revitalizing the downtown area. I think we 9 need establishments. We need restaurants. We 10 need a mixed use community. We need 11 condominiums. We need bars. We need - - But we 12 have to work together to solve any problems that 13 - - that arise. Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 15 questions of this witness? Mr. Pyzyk? 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: Sir, you say you live 19 in Mequon. Correct? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, sir. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: What made you come down 22 here? Were you invited? You didn't get noticed 23 in Mequon, did you? 24 THE WITNESS: No, I just know a lot of 25 the people that - - I know the - - Patty Keating 00078 1 Kahn. I know Judge Kahn, and - - 2 ALDERMAN WADE: So you were pretty much 3 - - 4 THE WITNESS: And they know I've been 5 at - - at the estab - - establishment. 6 ALDERMAN WADE: You're a customer. 7 They knew you had relevant testimony. 8 THE WITNESS: Correct. And I used to 9 live at Prospect Towers. I used to live in the 10 Regency, also. My roots are in Milwaukee. Yeah. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: All right. 12 THE WITNESS: Okay. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Anymore questions 15 of this witness? No. Next person to testify in 16 support. 17 THE WITNESS: Hi. My name is George 18 Markopolos. I live at 706 Lynn Drive, Waukesha, 19 Wisconsin. I bet you're all wondering what I'm 20 doing here. Well - - 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chairman, can I 22 just raise - - Are we going to have - - How many 23 people are going to testify today? 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, we're 25 getting near the end here. We're getting - - 00079 1 We're running out of people in the room to 2 testify. 3 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman, what I was 4 going to do is before this gentleman stepped up, 5 I was going to call the two police officers, 6 because I have them under my subpoena, so. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 8 MR. PYZYK: I think if this gentleman - 9 - 10 THE WITNESS: I'll be happy to step 11 down. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go. 13 MR. PYZYK: No, no. That's okay. 14 THE WITNESS: Oh, you want me to 15 finish? 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes, go ahead. 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'd like to 18 address this council here. I've lived in 19 Milwaukee for the last 35 years. I just moved 20 out to Waukesha. I know Spiro and Tony through a 21 long time relationship, and I'm also their 22 insurance agent. We do a lot of work in the 23 downtown and Milwaukee area, all over 24 southeastern Wisconsin. If I thought that they 25 would be a nuisance neighborhood, number one, is 00080 1 a lot of these company will not insure them. So 2 I'm here in their support. I've been to their 3 establishment in later parts of the evening 4 between 12 and two o'clock, closing time. I've 5 been there with my wife, my children, and I feel 6 very safe there, very comfortable, as far as the 7 noise goes, inside the bar. The music is not out 8 of line. I've been to other places that are much 9 louder. You can tell from the gray hair that I 10 don't hang around some of the younger places. 11 But there it is very comfortable, so I'm in 12 support for you to renew their license, and if 13 there's anything that I can do on my behalf, I'd 14 be more than happy to help them out. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 16 questions of this witness? 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You're their 18 insurance agent? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am. 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You have a business 21 relationship with the applicants. 22 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes, I do. And a 23 long time relationship with them, and I 24 understand that - - where you're going with this 25 question. 00081 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I just want to make 2 sure you - - you have a business relationship 3 with the applicant. 4 THE WITNESS: Sure. 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 7 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. I just 9 want to see a show of hands. Who is - - Who else 10 is here to testify in support now? Who is gong 11 to testify in support? There is two - - two - - 12 three more people. Four more people. 13 MR. PYZYK: I have the police officers, 14 Mr. Chairman - - I need their testimony. I don't 15 know if they're going to stay for supporting, but 16 they're here to testify on my request. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: That would just 18 get us out of sync. Is there - - Is there a 19 reason that they have to leave soon, or? 20 MR. PYZYK: No. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: They're an overtime? 22 MR. PYZYK: Well, yeah, they're on 23 overtime. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, let's - - 25 Just - - Just to keep everything in sync here. I 00082 1 want to hear the other people testifying in 2 support, and then we'll hear the testimony of the 3 officers. 4 MR. PYZYK: Oh. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next person in 6 support, please. 7 THE WITNESS: My name is Sam Kallas. I 8 live at 512 Downey Drive in Waukesha. George, 9 that was just up here, is my partner. Our office 10 is at 788 North Jefferson Street, Suite 720. 11 I've been in the business for 28 years. Very 12 familiar with downtown. Spend a lot of time down 13 here. We do have Tony and Spiro, a long 14 relationship. Not just business, but also a very 15 strong friendship. We have been in the Euro Bar 16 many times, and it's a very classy place, 17 upscale, and I just think it would be a big 18 mistake to see it go. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 20 questions of this witness? Thank you. Next 21 person to testify in support? 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. My name is Detlaf 23 Moore, and my address is 3704 North Lake Drive in 24 Shorewood. I do have my office in downtown, and 25 I am an International Association management 00083 1 person representing an international association 2 based here in Milwaukee. We do have meetings 3 that occasionally happen here in Milwaukee. I 4 bring people in from places like Australia, 5 Canada, other parts of the United States and 6 other parts of the world. One thing when they 7 come to this City, and they don't really know 8 about Milwaukee, is the wonderful atmosphere we 9 have as an urban environment. And as was said 10 earlier, six or seven years ago there was none of 11 that in downtown. The Euro Bar, I've gone there 12 several times, I found to be very European, which 13 is really good, like, you know, the world is 14 opening to us. And I just really hope that in 15 the future that our Alderman - - I don't live 16 here, but I do work in town - - I hope that they 17 really support companies like Euro Bar and what 18 they're trying to do is bring diversity in 19 entertainment to downtown Milwaukee. Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions of 21 this witness? Thank you. Next person to testify 22 in support? 23 THE WITNESS: Hi, everybody. My name 24 is Alicia Schwartz, and I live at 545 East Wells. 25 That is on Wells Street, between Jefferson and 00084 1 Jackson. I live a half block from places like 2 Taylor's and Flannery's, which for those of you 3 who don't know, are very active bars. There's a 4 lot of loud noise. There's a lot of screaming. 5 There's a lot of throwing up. There's a lot of 6 running around the park. There's all of that. 7 It's not just the Euro Bar who has all this. So 8 I guess if we're going to be monitoring the 9 people who come out of the Euro Bar, we might 10 have to monitor everybody in fairness. So that's 11 one thing I'd like to say. 12 Another thing I'd like to say is I'm a 13 member of the East Towne Association. And that's 14 where I know Bob Bauman, who is trying to do a 15 lot for our community. Can he do more? Sure. 16 We all can. But I think the big thing - - I 17 lived in Brookfield for 20 years, and I love the 18 quiet, but we came downtown because we wanted a 19 different life. We wanted a more vibrant life. 20 I never used to come downtown before. I would 21 avoid it at all costs. I'm an early to bed 22 person. I really don't drink much, and I'm a 23 very light sleeper. But I've resigned myself to 24 the fact that if I want to be part of this urban 25 community where everything is together, and 00085 1 there's a wonderful diversity, and there's so 2 many different businesses, and people living 3 together, that I have to be more tolerant than I 4 was in Brookfield. So I wear earplugs to bed. 5 Do I like - - Did I like it at first? No. But 6 there's noise that awakens me many a night, but I 7 just turn over and go back to sleep and say this 8 is the price of being downtown. I think to have 9 a soundproof place, and our building is brand 10 new, so it's really built in many ways to today's 11 building codes and it's very, very soundproof, 12 you're going to hear things. And whether it's 13 the drone of music or whether it's somebody 14 vomiting in the street, or urinating in the park, 15 or screaming, "Hey, wait for me," you're going to 16 hear it, and it's just part and parcel of what we 17 need to live with. And I don't think - - My son 18 frequents the Euro Bar, and he is in the 30 - - 19 He's 32. It's a young professional. That's the 20 kind of person who seems to be going there, or he 21 wouldn't go there. So I think, you know, it's - 22 - it's a tough thing. It's a fine line for you 23 all to walk, trying to please the whole world. 24 And you can't please everybody, but I think the 25 true answer is that we all have to compromise and 00086 1 learn how to work together and play in the 2 sandbox like good kids. Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions of 4 this witness? Thank you very much. Next person? 5 THE WITNESS: Hi. I'm Dawn Bloomfield, 6 400 North Broadway in the Historical Third Ward. 7 I'm a patron of Euro Bar. The reason I'm a 8 patron is my husband and I like the upscale 9 environment that they have supplied for us. I 10 have been there quite late at night. The music 11 was loud before they put in the vestibules. Once 12 they put in the vestibules, I noticed that, you 13 know, when you're walking down the street, you 14 don't really hear the music. We also frequent 15 Metro. We have gone into Eve's and Tangerine 16 where the music is a lot louder. You can hear 17 that all the way down the street to Wisconsin 18 Street, yeah, Wisconsin Street, and - - but you 19 really don't hear it at the Euro Bar. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 21 questions of this witness. No. thank you. Is 22 there anyone else here to testify. We'd like to 23 call the police officers at this time for their - 24 - their testimony. 25 MR. PYZYK: Officer Anderer. Officer, 00087 1 you've been sworn. Correct? 2 THE WITNESS: Correct. 3 MR. PYZYK: Your occupation? 4 THE WITNESS: Milwaukee Police officer. 5 MR. PYZYK: And, Officer, do you have a 6 squad assignment? 7 THE WITNESS: I have Squad 13. 8 MR. PYZYK: And what shift do you work? 9 THE WITNESS: Late shift. From 11 p.m. 10 to seven a.m. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just hold it one 12 second. Please recite your name for our court 13 reporter. 14 THE WITNESS: Anderer. A-N-D-E-R-E-R. 15 MR. PYZYK: First name is Douglas? 16 THE WITNESS: First name is Douglas. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 18 MR. PYZYK: Officer Anderer, have you 19 been one of the officers that have responded to 20 complaints being called in regarding the noise of 21 - - excessive noise, music noise coming from the 22 Euro Bar and Cafe? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes, I have. 24 MR. PYZYK: And as those calls have 25 come in and you've been dispatched to that 00088 1 location, have you responded to every one of 2 those calls? 3 THE WITNESS: I have responded to every 4 one that I was dispatched to. 5 MR. PYZYK: That you were dispatched 6 to. Sir, is your beat area the - - the Water 7 Street, Milwaukee Street, Mason Street area, in 8 the downtown area? 9 THE WITNESS: Our squad area runs from 10 the river to the lake, from Juneau to half of 11 Wisconsin Avenue. 12 MR. PYZYK: So it's a very restricted 13 area then. 14 THE WITNESS: Correct. 15 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And, Officer 16 Anderer, you - - what have you found when you've 17 gone on these complaints regarding the excessive 18 noise? Let me ask you this. Let me back it up. 19 First of all, did you bring with you 20 anything today indicating the calls that have 21 come in that you responded to? 22 THE WITNESS: My partner and I 23 downloaded the hitches that have been basically 24 what we could pull up off our CAD system. 25 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And what do you mean 00089 1 when you say "hitches?" 2 THE WITNESS: Calls for service. Noise 3 nuisance, batteries, whatever that - - whatever. 4 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And the CAD entries 5 that you have there, in reviewing those, sir, 6 could you testify and present to this board the 7 times that the calls came in, and what your 8 response time was to that - - to those calls? 9 THE WITNESS: From the time that the 10 calls are called in to them dispatching us, 11 average five - - five minutes, four to five 12 minutes. And then from there our average time is 13 anywhere from one minute to 12 minutes. 14 MR. PYZYK: Response time. When you 15 got the call and then arrived at that location of 16 324 East Mason. Correct? 17 THE WITNESS: Correct. 18 MR. PYZYK: Okay. So we're not talking 19 that a call came in and you responded two hours 20 later. That never happened. Is that correct? 21 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge, no. 22 MR. PYZYK: Not with respect to you, 23 that you've been able to determine in downloading 24 that - - those CADs. Correct? 25 THE WITNESS: No. No, absolutely not. 00090 1 MR. PYZYK: All right. Officer 2 Anderer, could you explain to this committee, 3 have you heard the music - - What did you do to 4 determine whether or not there was a - - a valid 5 complaint being called in regarding the excessive 6 music noise? 7 THE WITNESS: What we did is we 8 responded to the location of the complaints. So 9 if the person calls and complaints about the 10 tavern, we usually go to the tavern first. 11 MR. PYZYK: All right. 12 THE WITNESS: And then we discuss - - 13 or basically observe what is going on at the 14 establishment. 15 MR. PYZYK: And at all the times that 16 you've been dispatched to the Euro Cafe Bar did 17 you see a violation with respect to the music 18 noise coming from that establishment? 19 THE WITNESS: When I was first assigned 20 to District 1, yeah, there was some problems. I 21 mean, there were windows open. Noise was 22 excessively loud. But it wasn't any louder than 23 any other - - any other bars over there. A lot 24 of the garage door opens - - all the - - all the 25 windows on some of those bars over there open all 00091 1 the way to the ceiling. 2 MR. PYZYK: All right. And when you 3 were first assigned to the area, when was that? 4 THE WITNESS: I believe it was 5 approximately - - I think it was August of 2005. 6 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And have you seen 7 changes made by the Euro Bar Cafe that has either 8 reduced or eliminated that noise problem? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 MR. PYZYK: All right. And have you 11 responded even after those changes have been 12 made, and have you made a determination whether 13 or not there is noise that's going across the 14 street? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And what - - what 17 conclusion or deter - - determinations did you 18 make? 19 THE WITNESS: What we did is we went 20 out as far as we could hear the noise and we used 21 the laser to determine how many feet we were from 22 the tavern, using the laser that we would use for 23 traffic, and that also gives approximately how 24 many feet or the distance we are away from the 25 establishment. 00092 1 MR. PYZYK: All right. And did you 2 ever go across the street to where the condos are 3 and ever hear the noise to that extent? 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 MR. PYZYK: Okay. How far - - How far 6 did you get or where were you if you heard any 7 noise, whatsoever? 8 THE WITNESS: Before the vestibule you 9 could be across the street and hear the noise. 10 MR. PYZYK: Okay. After the vestibule 11 was added. 12 THE WITNESS: After the vestibule was 13 added I - - I would say that there on the north 14 side - - north side of Mason Street, we would be 15 on the other side of the parked cars, main 16 traffic lane going westbound is where we would 17 be, where we ran out of the - - where we did not 18 hear the noise. 19 MR. PYZYK: So you were within that 20 traffic lane immediately in front of the Euro Bar 21 that you could not hear the noise any longer. 22 THE WITNESS: Correct. 23 MR. PYZYK: And this is at a time 24 period, since you started at 11, anywhere from 11 25 p.m. to closing time. Is that correct? 00093 1 THE WITNESS: Correct. 2 MR. PYZYK: Did you - - Did you speak 3 with the complainant - - As a matter of fact, on 4 your CAD system who were the complainants or 5 complainant that called in? 6 THE WITNESS: The incident that we - - 7 The one incident that we used the laser to 8 determine, and we also issued a City citation, 9 was from Jo - - Jodell Swenson. 10 MR. PYZYK: All right. 11 THE WITNESS: She requested that - - 12 Any time that a citizen requests that a citation 13 be issued, basically more or less, is when we 14 issue a citation. 15 MR. PYZYK: All right. And you issued 16 that citation, even though on that night you 17 didn't hear the music and noise from Euro across 18 the street, all the way across the street to the 19 other side. 20 THE WITNESS: Correct. 21 MR. PYZYK: Did you have any 22 conversation with Ms. Swenson, regarding either 23 the bars on Milwaukee Street or Euro Bar? 24 THE WITNESS: Miss - - You could tell 25 that Ms. Swanson on this particular - - Swenson, 00094 1 I'm sorry. Swenson. On this particular night 2 was very kind of fed up with the whole noise 3 thing. That's why we basically more or less, 4 one, she requested that we issue a citation, and 5 two, it was basically more or less to stop us 6 from constantly going back there that night for - 7 - to check the noise. 8 MR. PYZYK: All right. 9 THE WITNESS: Conversation with her - - 10 basically more or less was disgruntled with the 11 bar, disgruntled with the noise, disgruntled with 12 the owners, and basically more or less, like I 13 said, she was just fed up with the whole 14 situation. 15 MR. PYZYK: All right. Officer, did 16 she make any statement to you that you took as 17 somewhat a - - 18 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Hearsay. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I want to hear 20 this. 21 MR. PYZYK: Any statement to you, 22 Officer, that you took offense to regarding the 23 Euro Bar. 24 THE WITNESS: She did make a statement 25 that her - - her statement clearly was that she 00095 1 doesn't have a problem with Club Metro. She 2 frequents Tom's bars, which I took as Tangerine, 3 Kennedees and Eve, and she made the comment that 4 night to me that she's sick and tired of the 5 Europeans around here. 6 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Not that she wants 7 to get them out, but she's sick and tired of the 8 Europeans. 9 THE WITNESS: Correct. 10 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Did you take offense 11 to that? 12 THE WITNESS: I didn't take offense to 13 it, no. I mean, but I did take it as a 14 derogatory comment. 15 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Officer Anderer, do 16 you or have you ever on an off-duty capacity gone 17 into the Euro Bar Cafe as a - - as a patron? 18 THE WITNESS: No. 19 MR. PYZYK: Do you recommend that their 20 license be - - 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, that's - - 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Objection. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Don't - - Don't go 24 there. That's not really his - - That's not his 25 job to speculate on that. 00096 1 MR. PYZYK: I guess I'm asking for his 2 opinion, based on his knowledge of the - - the 3 bar climate in that area. I guess I would ask if 4 - - if he did have an objection to the renewal of 5 the license. 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I will object. That 7 goes to the - - 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No, I - - I don't 9 - - Don't answer that. 10 MR. PYZYK: Okay. All right. Then I 11 don't have any other questions. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Does 13 anybody - - Hold it. Hold it. Does anybody else 14 have any questions of this officer? 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: The documents that 18 you're holding you referred to as your hitches 19 that you downloaded. What period is that from? 20 THE WITNESS: I have - - The day that I 21 issued, that my partner and I issued the citation 22 was 8/5 of '06 at - - It was from 12:54 to 1:30 23 - - 1:39 is the amount of time that we spent 24 there. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 00097 1 THE WITNESS: We also have the ninth 2 month of '05 - - '06, I'm sorry, and the tenth 3 month, the 11th month, the 12th month, sixth 4 month again. I believe it's from the 6th to the 5 12th, eighth month. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So June of '06 to 7 December of '06? 8 THE WITNESS: Correct. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. And of those 10 hitches you have, how - - how many times did you 11 go there to the Euro Bar, and were they all 12 regarding noise complaints or was there something 13 else in there? 14 THE WITNESS: For the - - For anything 15 that I've ever been to Euro Bar has always been a 16 noise complaint. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: The one in here is a 19 substantial battery. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Is that from 21 12/16/06? 22 THE WITNESS: I believe it is that one. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Just a wild guess. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes, battery, cutting. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So of - - of the 00098 1 other ones, how many - - how many times were you 2 there in that six month period, approximately? 3 THE WITNESS: Well, how many times have 4 I been there in that six month period - - 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Correct. 6 THE WITNESS: - - dispatched to it or 7 just rolled through? 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No. Dispatched to 9 it. 10 THE WITNESS: Um - - 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: That question will 12 come later. 13 THE WITNESS: Four times. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Four times. And in 15 those four times, one was where you issued the 16 citation on 8/05/06, and then the substantial 17 battery. Is that correct? 18 THE WITNESS: I was not on the 19 substantial battery. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, you were not? 21 Okay. 22 THE WITNESS: No. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So then it was just 24 the one incident in the four times you were 25 there. 00099 1 THE WITNESS: Correct. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And in the other 3 three, what action, if anything, did you do? 4 THE WITNESS: What we have is a "C" 5 code, is we gave it a C15, unfounded, baseless. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. And that is 7 because you didn't find the caller or because it 8 was not substantiated because there was no loud 9 music? 10 THE WITNESS: Well, sometimes in the 11 CAD they - - they actually gave individuals' 12 names that called to complain. We'll usually 13 call them by phone. But in the other ones they 14 say anonymous female or something like that. 15 Then we just don't make an attempt to - - If you 16 don't want to give your name and tell, you know, 17 how can we help you if you don't want to give us 18 your name. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. How - - 20 Regarding that nuisance citation you issued, are 21 you aware that it got dismissed? 22 THE WITNESS: Correct. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And do you know why 24 it got dismissed? It says, "Without prejudice," 25 but - - 00100 1 THE WITNESS: I was not at that court. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: You were not 3 subpoenaed to that? 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. All right. 6 Then how does the noise level at the Euro Cafe 7 Bar compare to the other taverns in the area? I 8 know you touched on it earlier about in the 9 beginning, you know, when they first opened up, 10 that it was no louder than everybody else. But 11 how is it now since they closed the windows, 12 closed the door and that? 13 THE WITNESS: As - - As far as their 14 tavern, it's very hard to determine, because down 15 in that area, the noise, bouncing off those 16 buildings, you can - - I mean, I - - I've worked 17 The Jungle, and I've worked all these other bars, 18 and where - - where you do hear a gunshot, you 19 - - you think that it's right across the street 20 from you, but it's four blocks away. I mean, it 21 just carries and bounces off these buildings, and 22 it - - Like some - - somebody did touch on it, 23 over on Mason Street it is a tunnel of noise. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: In your normal 25 routine patrol, you go through the downtown area 00101 1 quite frequently. Correct? 2 THE WITNESS: As far as workwise? 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Yes. 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: During your non- 6 obligated times. 7 THE WITNESS: Correct. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Or even during your 9 obligated time, when you go on from one 10 assignment to another. 11 THE WITNESS: Correct. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And you pass the Euro 13 Cafe and other taverns, but in particular, the 14 Euro Cafe Bar, when you go by it, do you see 15 loitering, littering, loud music - - Well, you 16 don't have to - - You already answered the loud 17 music. But late night disturbance, public 18 urination, intoxication, fights, or - - or 19 conduct which is detrimental to the health, 20 safety and welfare? I mean, you say you've been 21 there for a couple years now. In the last year, 22 from February of last year to now, is 23 specifically what I want to know, have you seen 24 this at this location? Any of this? Have you 25 arrested anybody for that? Have you warned 00102 1 anybody about that? 2 THE WITNESS: I - - You can - - You can 3 write, and it - - it's probably one of the 4 easiest citations to write is public urination. 5 So any time and every time that we've got an 6 opportunity to write that ticket, we'll take it. 7 The - - The whole thing is is my partner and 8 myself park usually right on the corner of 9 Milwaukee and Mason, and we'll walk the Milwaukee 10 Street, usually from 11:45 until about 1:30, and 11 then from 1:30 we go down to Water Street. As 12 far as the loitering and the - - and the hanging 13 out, I do believe that that's something that is 14 the result of the valet parking. I believe that 15 Tom's bars, which are Eve, Kennedees, Tangerine, 16 Carnivore, all have the exact same problem. The 17 valet parkers can only move so fast, and at 2:30, 18 when everybody piles out of the bar, because the 19 bar doesn't want to be in trouble for having 20 anybody in there after hours, you - - you pile 21 out 400 people, 500 people onto the street, and 22 you expect three or four guys to run and get your 23 car in a timely manner, it's - - it's a madhouse. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: I mean, we have the exact 00103 1 same problem on Water. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: But other than 3 urination, you don't see urination - - 4 THE WITNESS: No. I mean, we do see 5 it. I'd be - - I'd be a liar if I - - if I said 6 I didn't see it. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: At this tavern? 8 THE WITNESS: At any tavern, at any 9 tavern. But as far - - I mean, they're down the 10 street. I don't know what tavern they came out 11 of. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No, I'm - - 13 THE WITNESS: No. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: - - specifically 15 speaking of urinating by this tavern. 16 THE WITNESS: I could never pinpoint 17 what tavern they came by. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. I - - I know 19 that, especially at closing time, you do see 20 intoxicated people and this and that, but, again, 21 you can't determine where they come from. 22 THE WITNESS: Correct. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sometimes. All 24 right. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 00104 1 questions of this witness. Alderman Wade? 2 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair, thank you. 3 By the way, Alderman Puente, that was excellent 4 questions. But I do - - I look at you and your 5 partner as - - as experts as far as that's the 6 area that you patrol and you're downtown on a 7 regular basis dealing with these type of 8 situations, and you - - you mentioned that you 9 work in that area, and you also go over on the 10 Water Street area, which is a pretty popular area 11 in the City of Milwaukee. Just in your expert 12 professional opinion, the type of noise and - - 13 and the other things that were cited for, 14 nuisance, late night lit - - littering on Water 15 Street and over in the Mason Street area, what 16 would be your opinion on the difference or the 17 similarities or both of those situations, and 18 that's the only questions that I have. 19 THE WITNESS: Night and day. Night and 20 day. Water Street is approximately from 21 to 21 26, college kids totally going out there and 22 drinking absolutely as much as they can in a 23 three or four hour period. Mason Street, 24 Milwaukee Street, Jefferson Street, are all a 25 little bit higher class. Not that college kids 00105 1 are low class, but I just - - I mean, it's a 2 competition to see how much you can drink on 3 Water Street. Where Mason Street, I mean, it's 4 - - it's upper scale people. It's, you know, 5 attorneys. There's - - There's doctors. 6 There's all - - all walks of life. 7 ALDERMAN WADE: Police officers, yeah. 8 Okay. 9 THE WITNESS: Correct. There are - - 10 There are plenty of police officers there. But I 11 think that that - - that should show exactly 12 that's where they go, because they don't have to 13 run into any trouble. 14 ALDERMAN WADE: And I know some people 15 may say this question is not relevant, but it's 16 kind of relevant for me to get an understanding 17 about, you know, professionally, the difference 18 in - - in what you see and what's going on in the 19 downtown area, because the downtown area is, in 20 my opinion, stretches all the way to the Third 21 Ward. I - - I just need to kind of know what's 22 the difference in those different areas, so 23 that's important testimony for me. I appreciate 24 it. That's it. I don't have any other 25 questions. 00106 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 3 Schrimpf. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. Officer 5 Anderer, a couple of times there's been a 6 reference to Tom's bars, and then there's a 7 string of names that come after that, Eve and - - 8 Explain that to me. First of all, who is Tom? 9 THE WITNESS: I have no clue what Tom's 10 last name is. 11 ALDERMAN BOHL: Tom Wackman. 12 THE WITNESS: Tom Wackman. But he owns 13 Carnivore. He owns Tangerine, Kennedees, and 14 Eve. And I - - I do not - - As far as him 15 owning - - 16 ALDERMAN BOHL: Also, Eve. 17 THE WITNESS: - - owning any other 18 ones, I have no clue. But as far as those bars 19 go, that's basically what we associate Tom with. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And in order to 21 understand this, are you telling the committee 22 that basically you're not - - you don't see a 23 difference between the activity outside of those 24 bars and Euro Bar, or are you saying something 25 else? 00107 1 THE WITNESS: I'm saying that all those 2 bars in that area are at the exact same level of 3 clientele. I mean, as far as seeing fights, 4 seeing that stuff, no, I haven't seen a fight out 5 front - - in front of Euro Bar. But I also 6 haven't seen a fight out in front of Taylor's, 7 either. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. So, say at around 9 midnight, one o'clock in the morning, do you see 10 gangs of peo - - Well, I shouldn't use the term 11 "gangs," I suppose, but do you see throngs of 12 people outside of the bars because they're 13 waiting for the valet parkers to get their car? 14 THE WITNESS: I'm not saying that 15 that's all valet parking, but that's a huge, huge 16 issue. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And these people, 18 I suppose, are noisy? 19 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Drinking? 21 THE WITNESS: Not drinking. Not - - 22 Not outside, no. 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: No, no, no. But they 24 were drinking inside. 25 THE WITNESS: They had been drinking, 00108 1 correct. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: And they were dancing. 3 THE WITNESS: Correct. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Music - - Is music 5 available in all these bars that you - - 6 THE WITNESS: At - - At all these bars, 7 yes. All - - I mean, the only one that I would 8 say that's not a loud music place is a bar on 9 Milwaukee Street. I don't know what the address 10 is, but it's called My Office. You - - You're 11 not going to hear too much music coming out of 12 that. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I'll be at My 15 Office late tonight. Any - - Any further 16 questions of this witness? Okay. Thank you. 17 Could we hear testimony from the next officer? 18 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alderman Bauman, I'm 19 sorry. 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Yeah, thank - - thank 21 you, Mr. Chair. 22 Officer Anderer, I appreciate your 23 testimony today and taking the time to come down 24 here. You were subpoenaed, however, were you 25 not? 00109 1 THE WITNESS: That is correct. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Did you make 3 conversations with the applicants or any of the 4 representatives prior to coming down here today? 5 THE WITNESS: Sure. 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And what was - - Did 7 they contact you? Did you contact them? How did 8 that come to pass? 9 THE WITNESS: I got a subpoena at work. 10 And then, one day I had Municipal Court, and I 11 saw the attorney at Municipal Court's Branch 3, I 12 believe it was, and he had just said that he was 13 the attorney for Euro Bar. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. You heard the 15 testimony of the four or five witnesses from 741 16 North Milwaukee Street earlier. 17 THE WITNESS: Correct. 18 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: You were present for 19 their testimony. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And it's fair to say 22 that their testimony diverged considerably from 23 the testimony you just gave here? 24 THE WITNESS: I'm not saying that 25 they're lying. They're three and four floors up. 00110 1 I'm not up there. But as far as on the floor 2 level, my testimony is is I'm not hearing the 3 music. 4 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So your testimony 5 today is the testimony regarding the degree to 6 which these neighbors have been disturbed, the 7 degree to which their sleep is interrupted, the 8 specificity with which they're able to identify 9 this bar as the source of their annoyance versus 10 the other bars in the immediate neighborhood, you 11 have no reason to believe they aren't accurate in 12 those assessments? 13 THE WITNESS: No, I - - I do not - - I 14 do not have any knowledge of them being 15 inaccurate. 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. Thank you. 17 MR. PYZYK: Officer Anderer, is it fair 18 to say, though, as you made the comparison that 19 there is like noise coming from Milwaukee Street, 20 the comparison that you made is that you can hear 21 a - - a gunshot four blocks away, and because of 22 that tunnel effect down Mason Street, you could 23 conclude that was coming right from there. Is 24 that correct? 25 THE WITNESS: That is correct. 00111 1 MR. PYZYK: And is it correct that 2 there are two parking structures or several 3 parking structures on either end of the Mason 4 Street, one on Broadway, one backed up towards 5 Milwaukee Street. Is that correct? 6 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 7 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And it is a, 8 somewhat of a corridor of people that are leaving 9 these bars that maybe may not use valet parking, 10 but a corridor to get to those parking structures 11 or go to wherever they're going? 12 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 13 MR. PYZYK: Nothing further. 14 (Tape 2, side one.) 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. Thank 16 you for your testimony. Next officer, please. 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 19 ALDERMAN BOHL: I'm wondering if 20 Officer Anderer could relinquish the CAD reports, 21 because I would like to make them part of our 22 official record of this proceeding. Because it 23 was - - it was items that were - - that were 24 testified to. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl 00112 1 moves to make the CAD reports that were just 2 testified to part of the permanent record in 3 these proceedings, and hearing objections, so 4 ordered. 5 MR. PYZYK: Sir, state your full name. 6 Spell your last name. 7 THE WITNESS: My name is Officer - - 8 First name is spelled - - is Corstan, spelled C- 9 O-R-S-T-A-N. Last name is Court, C-O-U-R-T. 10 MR. PYZYK: And, Officer Court, your 11 occupation? 12 THE WITNESS: I'm a police officer with 13 the Milwaukee Police Department. 14 MR. PYZYK: And what shift do you work, 15 sir? 16 THE WITNESS: I work the late shift, 17 which is 11 p.m. to seven a.m. 18 MR. PYZYK: And your squad area? 19 THE WITNESS: My squad area is also, 20 I'm Squad 13. My squad area is from Juneau to 21 the lake, from - - Wait, Juneau to Wisconsin, the 22 river to the lake. Sorry. 23 MR. PYZYK: Would you - - Is it fair to 24 say that you are a partner to Officer Anderer? 25 THE WITNESS: Yes, we're partners. 00113 1 MR. PYZYK: Do you ride as a two-man 2 squad? 3 THE WITNESS: When we can. 4 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And so, Officer, are 5 you on the same work schedule as Officer Anderer? 6 THE WITNESS: We are on the same work 7 schedule - - I mean, we work together when we do, 8 but we have different off groups to where 9 sometimes I am alone, and sometimes he is alone. 10 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And sometimes you 11 work when he's not working? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 13 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And, Officer Court, 14 you're familiar with the Euro - - Euro Bar Cafe. 15 Correct? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 17 MR. PYZYK: What kind of establishment 18 is that? 19 THE WITNESS: Like my partner said, it 20 is a more upper class establishment that doesn't 21 ca - - It caters to older, more, I would say - - 22 I would say the hoity-toity crowd, that's what I 23 say, you know. More money than me they got. 24 MR. PYZYK: Would you consider this a 25 problem bar? 00114 1 THE WITNESS: No, I do not - - I don't 2 consider it a problem bar in the totality of all 3 the bars in - - in my squad area. 4 MR. PYZYK: And have you been on these 5 noise complaints, either along with Officer 6 Anderer or by yourself, that you've made an 7 assessment whether or not there is any validity 8 or basis to the noise complaints? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, I have. 10 MR. PYZYK: And on the complaints that 11 you've been on, how many would you say you've 12 been on in the year 2006? 13 THE WITNESS: How many dispatched 14 complaints have I been to? 15 MR. PYZYK: Yes. 16 THE WITNESS: Or complaints where I've 17 had, because there have been patrons from the - - 18 the - - I mean, members from the apartment 19 complex that have come down and have said each 20 bar is loud. So we go to each bar. But as far 21 as dispatched assignments, I would say half a 22 dozen. 23 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And in addition to 24 those half a dozen, how many more would you say 25 when you've met with people - - people from the 00115 1 condos as far as complaining about the noise, how 2 many more in addition to the half dozen? 3 THE WITNESS: I would say a dozen more. 4 MR. PYZYK: So about 18 in all. 5 THE WITNESS: 18 in all, but not just 6 from the Euro Bar. From different bars on 7 Milwaukee. 8 MR. PYZYK: Okay. With respect to the 9 ones from Euro Bar, did you respond to those 10 complaints that you had received? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. PYZYK: And when you responded to 13 - - to those complaints, Officer Court, did you 14 find any noise or validity to the complaints that 15 you had received? 16 THE WITNESS: When I arrived on scene 17 there, no, there was no validity to the noise 18 being generated as far as issuing an ordinance 19 citation. 20 MR. PYZYK: Officer Court, you also do 21 not, as an off-duty person, in your off-duty 22 capacity, have you ever frequented - - Have you 23 ever gone to the Euro Bar Cafe? 24 THE WITNESS: No. 25 MR. PYZYK: You have no interest in it. 00116 1 THE WITNESS: None, whatso - - 2 MR. PYZYK: Just as far as like a 3 financial interest or a friendship with either 4 Mr. Asimakotoulos or Mr. Anagnou. 5 THE WITNESS: Other than a working 6 relationship, because my partner and I make it - 7 - My partner and I make it a point to know every 8 owner of every bar in our squad area that we can 9 know. So we walk around, and other than a 10 professional business relationship where we do 11 see each other, and we do talk while on - - on 12 duty, that's - - 13 MR. PYZYK: That's it. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 15 MR. PYZYK: All right. Have you gone 16 in there on the basis of complaints and looked at 17 their stereo system to see if it's within the 18 allowable acceptable decibel limits? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, I've gone in there 20 from complaints that I have received and gone in 21 there on my own initiative. 22 MR. PYZYK: And - - Okay. On your own 23 initiative have you found that their music system 24 is within the provisions of the Codes of the City 25 of Milwaukee? 00117 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. 2 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And have you told 3 them of complaints that have been made about the 4 loud music, have you not, that that's why you're 5 there? 6 THE WITNESS: I - - I have told them, 7 yeah, that there have been noise complaints. 8 MR. PYZYK: Okay. 9 THE WITNESS: Not specifically who or 10 where, but that ewas the reason why we are 11 dispatched to their location. 12 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And of - - of all 13 the complaints you've received, you've - - you 14 have never personally, or your partner, to your 15 knowledge, had any other bar complaints or 16 violations by the Euro Bar itself. Is that 17 correct? 18 THE WITNESS: I - - I do want to recall 19 that I was dispatched to a fight in the street 20 out in front of Euro Bar. 21 MR. PYZYK: Okay. 22 THE WITNESS: When we arrived there, 23 there was no fight, but it said, "In front of 24 Euro Bar," on East Mason Street, East Mason/North 25 Milwaukee Street. 00118 1 MR. PYZYK: And is it fair, as you've - 2 - your partner has, I think, responded to 3 Alderman Puente's questions, that you've - - When 4 receiving the complaints, you've been in there 5 anywhere on an average from a few minutes to a 12 6 minutes response time? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, if that's what the 8 CAD system says. 9 MR. PYZYK: All right. And when you 10 arrived there, you didn't see anything, as far as 11 a fight in front of the Euro Cafe. 12 THE WITNESS: No. 13 MR. PYZYK: Okay. And no citations 14 were issued for that. Correct? 15 THE WITNESS: As far as the fight? 16 MR. PYZYK: Yes. 17 THE WITNESS: No. 18 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Nothing further, Mr. 19 Chairman. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 21 other questions of this witness? 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: You - - You heard the 25 questions I asked your partner. Correct? 00119 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Do you dispute 3 anything he said? 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. When you're 6 working alone and - - Do you do park and walk 7 when you're alone, or is it always - - 8 THE WITNESS: I will usually team up 9 with someone with a park and walk. I don't - - I 10 don't like to park and walk alone. So, yes. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What about in your 12 patrol car, or when you're walking, have you 13 noticed any of the things on the notification as 14 it pertains to disorderly conduct, urinating, 15 everything I asked your partner. Have you 16 witnessed anything like - - 17 THE WITNESS: I have witnessed - - 18 Not - - 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: In the last year. 20 THE WITNESS: Like my partner said. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: In the last year. 22 THE WITNESS: Right. Like my partner 23 said, I do not know if they come from the Euro 24 Bar. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 00120 1 THE WITNESS: But, yes, there's people 2 urinating. There is people jaywalking. There is 3 people littering. There is people being loud. 4 As far as it coming from the Euro Bar, I can't 5 tell you if it is or if it isn't. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: During your routine 7 patrol, have you ever heard loud music emanating 8 from the Euro Bar in the last year, other than 9 the calls that you got sent. I'm talking just 10 routine patrol. 11 THE WITNESS: No. I - - Like - - We 12 did go there before they put the foyer in. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No. Just the last 14 year, sir. 15 THE WITNESS: No. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. All right. 17 Thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 19 questions of this witness. 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Yeah, Mr. Chair, 21 please. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Very briefly, again. 24 Thank you for testifying today. I appreciate 25 your coming down. You heard the other five 00121 1 witnesses testify from the Grain Exchange 2 Condominium Project? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 4 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Is it fair to say 5 their testimony diverged considerably from your 6 testimony about the existence of noise, 7 loitering, fighting, other disorderly conduct? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Do you just believe 10 they're hypersensitive or overly sensitive folks 11 or what's your explanation for - - 12 THE WITNESS: I do not know them, so I 13 cannot make a conclusion. I know that they saw 14 - - They see what they see, and obviously, they 15 would - - I can't tell you what I think they 16 think, because I do not know them. So - - 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. And in the 18 court - - Now is it your testimony today that you 19 and your partner have responded to every 20 complaint that was called in to the Milwaukee 21 Police Department by residents of the Grain 22 Exchange? 23 THE WITNESS: No, sir, I have not. 24 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So is it possible 25 other squads responded to complaints that were 00122 1 called in by residents of the Grain Exchange? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Did you do an 4 exhaustive search of the records of the Milwaukee 5 Police Department to determine if the CAD reports 6 you produced today are all the CAD reports that 7 have been generated as a result of the complaints 8 from residents of the 741 North Milwaukee 9 Street - - 10 THE WITNESS: That's actually kind of 11 funny, because you used to be able to go to a 12 computer and look up every assignment, but now 13 with this new system, this Tibedron system we 14 have, it is - - it's hard to figure out. You got 15 to have time specific. You got to have street, 16 no street. So I was not able to download all the 17 assignments just for the mere fact it was too 18 confusing. 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: So it's possible 20 there were many other assignments or a few other 21 assignments, but you don't know how many 22 assignments in total. 23 THE WITNESS: That is correct. 24 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Okay. So it's very 25 possible that some of the specific instances that 00123 1 were testified to earlier by the residents of the 2 Grain Exchange, testified to with direct 3 eyewitness testimony, what they saw, what they 4 heard, may have resulted in complaints to the 5 Milwaukee Police Department which you and your 6 partner did not respond to, and therefore, are 7 not able to say whether what they complained 8 about was accurate or not. Would that be 9 correct? 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Officer, would you 14 say that in a pay period, which is two weeks, you 15 or your partner worked the majority of those days 16 in your squad area? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. So 19 wouldn't it be fair to say that you're there just 20 about every 14 days, either you, your partner, or 21 both of you. 22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So you would 24 definitely cover that area the majority of the 25 time - - 00124 1 THE WITNESS: Minus vacations and 2 holiday offs, yes, sir. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Correct. I 4 understand that. And then, are you conscientious 5 enough that when you're not dispatched - - Let's 6 say, you're dispatched to something outside your 7 area. That you're still monitoring the radio, 8 and you would hear somebody go into your squad 9 area? 10 THE WITNESS: We have huge squad 11 integrity, yes, sir. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Yes. And doesn't - - 13 Wouldn't you or the officers who got sent in to 14 your squad area give you a follow-up on what 15 happened there, so you can keep a pulse on what's 16 going on in your squad area? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. 19 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman, could I 20 ask - - 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 22 MR. PYZYK: Officer Court, as a follow- 23 up to Alderman Fuente's - - 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It's - - It's 25 Alderman Puente. 00125 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 MR. PYZYK: I'm - - I'm sorry. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It's the bridge, 4 not the fountain. 5 MR. PYZYK: Puente, I'm sorry, 6 Alderman. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 8 MR. PYZYK: Officer Court, you've heard 9 the testimony of the other people that came here 10 this afternoon and testified on the condo 11 association. Is that correct? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 13 MR. PYZYK: Okay. As I recall, 14 everyone except Ms. Swenson had indicated, as I 15 recall, that none of them had called the police 16 to complain. Do you recall that? 17 THE WITNESS: I do not recall anyone 18 - - The first gentleman, I do recollect that he - 19 - I had talked to him, but I can't remember if it 20 was for the Euro Bar or if it was for, you know, 21 everyone seems to be forgetting about Three. 22 Three is another bar that we had gotten 23 complaints about, and another bar that we just 24 tried to police. 25 MR. PYZYK: Is that on Milwaukee 00126 1 Street? 2 THE WITNESS: That's on Milwaukee 3 Street, yes. 4 MR. PYZYK: Okay. But at least, I - - 5 I recollect, Mr. Durand didn't, but the committee 6 can collectively remember what they recall, but 7 Mr. and Mrs. Harvey, I recall, I don't believe 8 called in a complaint, nor did Mr. Stanosz. That 9 being the case, Ms. Swenson had indicated she 10 called in about 15 times. You said that you've 11 taken complaints six times that you've been 12 dispatched to, and another dozen at least from 13 - - from people from there that you saw on the 14 street. Your partner indicated at least four 15 times. So is it fair to say that the complaints 16 that came in that you responded to were basically 17 from Ms. Swenson. Is that correct? 18 THE WITNESS: I would have to say that 19 a majority of the complaints that we were 20 dispatched to were from Ms. Swenson, yes. 21 MR. PYZYK: Okay. Nothing further. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any further 23 questions of this witness? Thank you very much. 24 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I appreciate your 00127 1 testimony and your patience. 2 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to 3 ask - - I was going to say that the officers be 4 excused. Since they're under subpoena you have 5 the authority to release them. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes, and I do. 7 Would you like to give us a closing statement 8 before we take this matter into committee? 9 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Chairman, I would like 10 to do that, and because of the lateness of the 11 hour, and I appreciate you people have been here 12 since early this morning, I - - I will generally 13 make my comments brief to you. Okay. 14 My clients did start this business up 15 in June of 2005. They have a considerable 16 investment in this operation, putting in almost 17 450,000 dollars. It was a complete - - 18 completely gutted building that they have - - And 19 I will ask that these be made part of the record, 20 because it shows the inside in case any of these 21 aldermen have not been there, along with the menu 22 fare, which is a drink menu. I'd ask that these 23 be made - - made part of the record. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik 25 moves to make the - - the menu and photographs 00128 1 part of the permanent record in this hearing. 2 Hearing no objections, so ordered. 3 MR. PYZYK: Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just one question. 5 Do they offer food? 6 MR. PYZYK: They - - They - - They will 7 bring in food and cater food. They don't put 8 food - - 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 10 MR. PYZYK: And there is no food on the 11 menu, so nobody can come in - - 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Just - - 13 Just wanted to clarify what the - - what we meant 14 by the menu. Okay. 15 MR. PYZYK: Sure. You got it. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 17 MR. PYZYK: The - - There's been 18 certainly enough testimony, and I think this 19 committee certainly has a good idea that this is 20 an upscale, more somewhat quasi-professional 21 establishment. The age group being from four to 22 eight, four to nine p.m., around the 35 to 45 and 23 up age group. And as it goes later into the 24 evening, closer to the late 20s, 30s, and then up 25 to the higher age groups. 00129 1 My client does not have a - - Testimony 2 has been given that there is this - - this bass 3 sound, this rapping sound. But the - - The 4 reality of it is that my client does not have a - 5 - a bass - - his stereo system. He does not - - 6 He has - - Excuse me. He has - - He does not 7 have a subwoofer attached to his system, his 8 music sound system, which gives you that 9 pounding, rapping, throbbing sound that many of 10 us, I'm sure have experienced, when we're sitting 11 at a traffic light within Milwaukee County, 12 Waukesha County, when we hear young people with 13 these subwoofers in their cars, and their cars 14 are vibrating from the music alone. My client 15 does not - - And that's one of the reasons why he 16 also, besides that flyer, fired that promoter 17 after three weeks time, because the promoter was 18 bringing in Rock and Roll music, and my client 19 said he didn't want the Rock and Roll music. He 20 didn't want to bring in that type of group of 21 people on the Rock and Roll music. He plays 22 house music. House music is generic. But 23 basically what it is it's your Madonna tunes, 24 your Stevie Nicks tunes, music of that variety. 25 In looking at the menu you will see 00130 1 that we're talking about ten dollar martinis. 2 We're talking about expensive beer drinks. We do 3 not have tappers in - - in this establishment. 4 It's a lounge area. It - - It does not have TVs. 5 It does not have dartballs. It doesn't really 6 even have a dance floor, although people may 7 somewhat dance on the area, because it is a nice 8 wood floor, but he doesn't have an area 9 specifically set aside as a dance floor. 10 My clients have been very, and I've got 11 to say very responsive when the condo association 12 has presented to them the letter of December 12, 13 2005, which this committee has previously taken. 14 And if I can just go down the list of items that 15 the condo association had said these are 16 suggestions asking for some assistance, which my 17 client complied with. Reduction in the level of 18 music. My client in receiving this letter with 19 respect to the reduction of music, knocked out 20 eight to ten speakers that he had set up in the 21 establishment. Knocked them out. He has six 22 speakers, and that's all he has. Possible 23 adjustment to position of internal speakers 24 inside of the bar to prevent music from sifting 25 through the windows. He originally had speakers 00131 1 up at the front windows, although aiming into the 2 bar. They were up at the front windows. He has 3 disconnected those, and has dis - - disconnected 4 those for some time, since last year. This isn't 5 something that he's proposing to do. This is 6 something that he has done. 7 Item number three, reconfiguration of 8 front entry so there are two sets of doors to 9 reduce lofting of music into adjoining 10 residential area. When my client got that, he 11 immediately went - - He says that it took him two 12 and a half to almost three months to get a 13 building permit through the City of Milwaukee. 14 Had contacted Alderman Bauman to force some 15 assistance to see if he could speed up the 16 process. Alderman Bauman's response was that 17 you're in trouble. "Come December, January, 18 you're in trouble with the renewal of your 19 license." My client continued through with the 20 permit process, and at an expense of 12,000 21 dollars added that vestibule area onto his 22 property - - onto his business property. That 23 was what the condo association requested. 24 They requested continue to close 25 windows in the summer at ten p.m. to accommodate 00132 1 area residents who arise early for work. My 2 client, upon receiving that, no longer opened the 3 windows. When he built this place out to what 4 you see in those pictures, he had brand new 5 windows put in the front - - double thickness 6 glass. He closed them permanently. They cannot 7 be opened. The only way they can be opened is 8 with a key, and he has the only key. And he 9 hasn't opened those windows, even though the 10 condo association had given him the leeway to at 11 least keep them open until ten p.m. He didn't do 12 that. He shut them permanently. 13 The next item, eliminate large exterior 14 tables which attract groups and lead to noisy 15 patrons. Use smaller tables. Reserve them only 16 for patrons who are ordering foods, or eliminate 17 exterior tables altogether. My client 18 immediately upon again receiving this went and 19 eliminated the tables completely from the 20 outside. He did have tables on the outside. One 21 of them, as a matter of fact, during one of the 22 evenings had got stolen. A table and the chairs 23 just walked away. But regardless, he removed 24 those, because it was to assist the condo 25 association and what they had requested. 00133 1 They had asked for training of the 2 valets. My client - - The valet system 3 apparently is a Milwaukee downtown area valet 4 system that is a group of valets that you hire 5 from a service. My client had instructed the 6 valets, please, there is complaints that when you 7 bring the cars up, the radios are on loud. 8 Please shut the radios off when you bring the 9 cars around, have consideration for our 10 neighbors. And that's how they were instructed. 11 My client has two bouncers in the front doors, 12 checking IDs. Another one, in response to when 13 the front door opens, the inside door stays shut. 14 When the front doors huts, the front door from 15 the street, then open the inside so the music and 16 the noise from the establishment doesn't bleed 17 out into the street. My client has done that. 18 He has done everything that the association has 19 requested of him. 20 The - - One of the things that was 21 testified to at the - - one of the first 22 hearings, the fact is that in two years my client 23 received one citation that was dismissed, and the 24 citation that the officers had written on the 25 back, and I know it's part of your records from 00134 1 the first hearing, that the officers didn't 2 detect any noise, but because of Ms. Swenson's 3 wanting it issued, they issued it. That ticket 4 got dismissed in Municipal Court. The other 5 incident in December 16th, which involved a 6 patron hitting another patron with a glass, my 7 clients cooperated fully with the police, and 8 gave the police the information regarding the 9 party that was involved in that. In two years my 10 client technically has had one incident of a 11 violent nature over at his establishment. 12 The - - The testimony of the people 13 here today in support of this establishment 14 speaks for itself. I would like to say that 15 obviously we are here - - We wouldn't have spent 16 this much time and your time if we weren't of a 17 sincere belief and a sincere request that this 18 committee renew the license of the Euro Bar Cafe. 19 We're kindly passionate about the business that 20 has been there. 21 We know we can be - - continue to be a 22 good neighbor, and we come to you with this 23 suggestion as far as something that we could 24 probably add to the mix that we would hope would 25 again solve or minimize the noise that the 00135 1 neighbors are complaining about. Number one, the 2 people out on Mason Street. My client is 3 offering - - He will eliminate valet parking. 4 Although his customers appreciate that, he would 5 eliminate valet parking, which as the officer 6 testified to when you have these groups of people 7 coming out at closing time and all congregating 8 on the street, you have two valet, three valet 9 people running to get cars, they are going to be 10 standing out there for 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 11 waiting to get their car. My client eliminates 12 the valet parking. That problem I see resolving 13 itself. The congregation of people standing 14 outside is eliminated. My client is in a 15 position, although having two bouncers, he'd even 16 offer to hire private security again to stand 17 outside to move the people along at closing time 18 so that they don't decide, well, we're out of 19 here, where do we go next, and they converse 20 outside, again, causing noise from what the 21 neighbors complain about, that eliminates that. 22 With respect to the music on the 23 inside, my client is willing and offering, 24 although his system is at a 60 decibel limit, it 25 can't go higher than that. He had his stereo 00136 1 system set up professionally with a compressor 2 that if that music or the noise increases above 3 the 60 decibel limit, the compressor shuts down 4 the system. So the music doesn't go beyond the 5 allowable limit by the City, 60 decibels. My 6 client is willing to even offer a 20 percent 7 reduction to reduce that approximately to a 50 8 decibel limit, to see if that will assist the 9 situation, cutting it down to that degree. 10 Although he's at a limit allowed by the City, 11 he's willing to do that, again, as a good 12 neighbor in the area. 13 The last point is his DJ stereo system 14 is up towards the front of the bar, closest to 15 the door. The people congregate around that DJ 16 area, because that's where they stand, where they 17 make requests for music. The music is heard. My 18 client, if this committee is willing, in fact, to 19 renew that license, we'll move that DJ system to 20 the back end of the bar where then he'll have the 21 largest concentration of people back to the back 22 of the bar. Front of the bar, obviously, you can 23 see the benches, the padded bench seats. We're 24 hoping and - - and really believing that this 25 will eliminate the last barrier that seems to be 00137 1 the problem here with the neighborhood. We're 2 asking for that opportunity. 3 I can't say more than enough that if my 4 client had come here today and just totally 5 ignored everything the association has said, we 6 probably wouldn't even be here. Honestly. 7 Because this committee would have every right to 8 not renew, because they say, hey, you can't even 9 follow what they're requesting. Even the people, 10 with the exception of Mr. and Mrs. Harvey, who 11 just moved in in June, have said - - And Ms. 12 Swenson has even said, and one of the other - - 13 Mr. Durand or Mr. Stanosz, that it has been - - I 14 copied his word down word for word, that it's 15 been "signi - - significantly improved" since 16 that vestibule has been added on." These other 17 factors can be dealt with, and I - - I had hoped 18 to have that opportunity to discuss those with 19 Mister - - Excuse me - - Alderman Bauman. 20 Unfortunately after we got the court's okay to 21 come back here to refer this back to this 22 committee, my conversation with Alderman Bauman, 23 Alderman Bauman had heard enough from his 24 neighbors and said that the conversation with us 25 there wasn't anything else that I could offer or 00138 1 say, and it was a very short conversation. And 2 that's why I'm giving this additional information 3 to this committee, that we are willing to work 4 with the City people and with the condo 5 association across the street. 6 It's interesting to note that the condo 7 association itself, as a body, although meeting 8 twice in '05, to - - to give these letters out to 9 my client, has not since found it necessary to 10 meet again to set additional requests out. The 11 requests that come with you and the suggestions 12 that come with you today are ones that my 13 client's willing to take upon himself. Thank 14 you, Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 16 Alderman Bauman. Closing? 17 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. 18 Chair. 19 Obviously there appears to be two 20 rather divergent sets of testimony here as to 21 what has taken place over the last year, in 22 particular, and two years, in general. The 23 neighbors, the residents of 741 North Broadway 24 have testified very precisely as to the existence 25 of substantial interference with their quiet 00139 1 enjoyment of their premises. They have answered 2 the claim that these are - - that this is really 3 noise from around the corner. They have answered 4 the claim that these are really patrons being 5 disorderly from other establishments. They have 6 testified precisely. They saw people exit these 7 premises and walk onto the street and did such 8 and so. I don't know how much more precise you 9 can be. This is eyewitness testimony. 10 You've heard from the police department 11 that having a somewhat divergent view which can 12 be, I think, fairly summarized is that, well, 13 this bar is not significantly worse than any of 14 the others or significantly better, whichever way 15 you want to look at it. The officer, himself, 16 postulated that perhaps both sides are right. 17 Perhaps the neighbors with being there all the 18 time, being at a higher elevation, they, in fact, 19 do experience what they experience, which is 20 clearly interference with their quiet enjoyment, 21 while someone on the street standing there for a 22 matter of moments does not experience the same 23 level of interference. 24 So I - - I stand on my original 25 position. I mean, I'm satisfied, based on the 00140 1 incredible volume - - volume of complaints that I 2 received - - I've received more complaints about 3 this bar than any other single establishment in 4 downtown Milwaukee. Not - - The Jungle - - The 5 Jungle did not generate more complaints. No 6 other establishment has generated the complaints. 7 And I'm satisfied, based on what I've heard 8 today, these witnesses, they are credible. They 9 have personal knowledge. They're in a position 10 to know what it is they've told you. It is 11 entirely possible that their testimony is 12 consistent with what the police observed, as 13 well, to the extent the police were there every 14 time there was a disturbance. And I continue 15 with my recommendation that based on the record 16 before us this establishment should be 17 nonrenewed. 18 I think most persuasive of all is the 19 testimony that every witness from 741 North 20 Milwaukee is that since February 21st when this 21 establishment was shut down, their lives have 22 literally improved dramatically, which totally 23 debunks the theory and refutes the theory that, 24 well, it's all these other bars causing this 25 noise. The noise is bouncing off buildings. The 00141 1 noise is like - - The noise is ricocheting. It's 2 people going to and from parking structures. The 3 fact that since this bar has been closed, since 4 February 21st, they've all - - they all 5 testified, to the person, that their - - that 6 their quiet enjoyment has been substantially 7 restored. And I asked them, are all the bars in 8 Milwaukee Street still in operation? Are - - Do 9 they all play music as usual? All of Milwaukee 10 Street hasn't shut down together with this bar? 11 No. All those other bars are, in fact, in 12 operation. So that is the classic test in this - 13 - in essence, the proof of the - - of the 14 ultimate conclusion, and that is when this 15 particular establishment was removed from the 16 mix, their testimony was, to the person, 17 everything changed dramatically. I can sleep at 18 night. I can read a book at night. I can play a 19 DVD on television at night with my windows closed 20 and not hear this noise. So I, again, ask the 21 committee to basically do what it did the last 22 time, and that is nonrenew this license. Thank 23 you. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 00142 1 Alderman Puente. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Alderman Bauman, you 3 say you've received more calls from this bar than 4 any other bar. The callers, are the majority of 5 those calls from the people who testified before 6 us? In other words, do you have repeated 7 callers? 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: No. Actually not. 9 I've received calls from Mr. Fortun, I think his 10 name is. He's not here today. He testified at 11 the last meeting. I've received calls from the 12 original first condominium association president, 13 who I think signed one of these letters, Mr. 14 Hlavachek, perhaps is his name. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And he lives there? 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I don't know if he 17 lives there anymore. Is he still living there? 18 AUDIENCE: Yes, he is. 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: He still lives there. 20 And I was summoned to meetings at his behest with 21 the owners on the Milwaukee - - 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: How many calls do you 23 think you've received regarding this 24 establishment? 25 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Between - - 00143 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Within the last year. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Within the last year, 3 probably a dozen. 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: A dozen? 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Right. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. All right. 7 And there's 30 people that live at 741 North 8 Milwaukee. 9 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Right. Thank you. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I just - - I just 12 want to add an FYI here. This - - I - - This is 13 no longer an issue because they removed the 14 tables from the front. But there - - There never 15 was a permanent extension of premise for the 16 place. So if there were - - If there were tables 17 outside and there were people outside, that was - 18 - that was not - - not legal at that time. 19 That's not the case, because the tables have been 20 removed. But you sort of inferred that you did 21 the neighbors a favor by taking the tables away 22 and not having people outside, which shouldn't 23 have been there in the first place. Had the - - 24 Had the - - Had the officers checked the license 25 and found out they didn't have extension of 00144 1 premises, they'd have been written up for that. 2 That's not neither here nor there. It's just an 3 FYI. 4 This matter is in committee. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Well, I'll take a 6 stab at it. I've been pretty - - 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Chair recognizes 8 Alderman Dudzik. 9 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: This committee has 10 more frequently than not used a graduated system 11 of discipline, and at this point in time based on 12 the neighborhood complaints and all the testimony 13 that we've heard in the last two cycles, I would 14 move approval of this license with a 15 day 15 suspension. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Based on? 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Yes. And the police 18 report. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Based on? Okay. 20 Okay. 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: Based on? Police 22 report? 23 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And the neighborhood 24 objections. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Motion by 00145 1 Alderman Dudzik is to recommend approval of the 2 renewal of the Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Dance 3 applications with a 15 day suspension based on 4 police report and neighborhood testimony. 5 Discussion on the motion? 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I will support that 9 motion, because in reality as testified they have 10 been out - - out of operation since February 11 21st. So with the 15 day suspension and 12 approximately 36 days, you - - you've been 13 closed. That comes out to over 50 days, a 51 day 14 suspension, so. Or 51 days that they haven't 15 been in operation, so I will support that motion. 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: On the motion, I would 19 just like to - - to encourage the - - the 20 business owners to look into the sound issue, 21 because the - - the thumping sound and the 22 constant banging sound seem to be one of the - - 23 the high points of people's problem with the 24 business. And if, I think, if you could get your 25 arms around that, then it may go a long way 00146 1 towards allowing people to enjoy a higher quality 2 of life, and maybe do some of the things that 3 they said they can't do because of that sound. 4 So I know you talked about the decibel situation. 5 That may be the answer, but I would say try to 6 troubleshoot that piece of it and get that in 7 place, and I think that would help move it into 8 the future. 9 I will be supporting this - - this - - 10 this recommendation. I think it's - - I think 11 it's fair, based on - - I stated this earlier, 12 and - - and I think that when people have 13 invested this much money in Milwaukee in a 14 business and they have shown that they can do it 15 without any problems, that they should be given 16 the opportunity to get back to ground level when 17 there are some problems. And I think you guys 18 deserve to get that opportunity to get it right. 19 But on the other hand, if - - if we have this 20 same situation come back a year from now and the 21 effort hasn't been put forth, and your attorney 22 articulated it excellent, that I think you guys 23 have been pretty pro-active about what you're 24 trying to do. The last piece I'll say, and then 25 I'll leave it alone, is that I think the 00147 1 relationship between all the parties involved, be 2 it the tenants across the street, the business 3 owners and the alderman needs to be - - Something 4 needs to be done to get that relationship to a 5 point where it's workable and that there are some 6 open doors and people can communicate and maybe 7 come to some conclusion without coming to the 8 committee and having us, you know, do - - do this 9 for you. So I will be sup - - supporting that 10 motion. I think that is as probably as accurate 11 as - - as I see it at this point. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I may add, too, I 15 agree with what Alderman Wade just said that you 16 implementing the decibel limit is definitely a 17 step in the right direction. But I think a real 18 big key is eliminating that valet parking. I 19 mean, as testified, it weighted very heavily with 20 what the officer said, and they - - and they did 21 say that that valet parking is an issue. You 22 must have heard him, also, and you took a pro- 23 active approach to eliminate that. So these - - 24 Both of those are a step in the right direction. 25 And as the Alderman said, we'll - - we'll be here 00148 1 next year. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You're welcome. I 3 have three theory/observations, which I'll share 4 with you at this time before we ask for a vote on 5 this. 6 It sounds like a tale of two cities, 7 because this is - - What I heard from the 8 neighbors across the street is the probably among 9 the most credible testimony I've ever heard from 10 - - from neighbors of an establishment across the 11 street from a bar. And I've been on this 12 committee, I don't know, 12 years, 15 years, 13 something like that. That's been the most 14 credible testimony that I've heard. But then 15 I've heard from the - - the police and their 16 decibel meter and the - - and the building owner 17 and the bar owners and some other people that it 18 just seems like the tale of two cities all of a 19 sudden, where here, again, happens once in a 20 while. 21 I had - - And I actually had a personal 22 experience, and this was - - this was a house 23 that was across the alley and down the block from 24 me where I lived. And I had - - I live in the 25 City. I live on Mitchell Street. I'm used to 00149 1 sounds of the City, and occasionally at night an 2 airplane flies over, Bell Ambulance always makes 3 their presence known. They have the - - the 4 loudest sirens in the world. And occasional cars 5 going down the street and everything. So I'm 6 used to that - - I'm used to that city noise. 7 But I had a neighbor that was across the alley 8 and up the block, and they would play loud music. 9 Now this guy didn't have a - - a 50,000 dollar 10 sound system. He had - - He had something that 11 he probably paid 500 dollars for at Radio Shack. 12 And they used to play his music. And I would be 13 laying there in bed at night in the middle of 14 this building that has brick walls this thick, 15 and I'm pretty far away from him. And he didn't 16 have subwoofer. This was - - This was like a 17 glorified ex - - extended boom box or something. 18 But I would be laying there at night, and I'd 19 hear this "mmm-mmm, mmm-mmm, mmm-mmm," just - - 20 And that constant thing. The plane doesn't 21 bother me flying over. Hear the train, hear the 22 cars, hear Bell Ambulance. That doesn't bother 23 me. But then, "mmm-mmm, mmm-mmm." I know it 24 well. I've heard it for a long time. So I get 25 dressed up and I go outside. And I can hear the 00150 1 treble. I can hear the actual music, and I can't 2 hear that - - I can't hear that buzzing. I can't 3 hear that part of it. So I'm - - I'm standing 4 there, and I can hear, right next to my building, 5 I can hear the music part of the music, and I 6 can't hear that undertone. But I - - And I say, 7 well, I - - He must have unplugged half of his 8 speakers, must have saw me coming. So I go back 9 in the house and I lay down, and I hear the same 10 thing again. 11 And I know we had a case here, and I 12 think this was when we were all on the committee. 13 This was a couple years back. 14 ALDERMAN WADE: Oh, yes. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Where somebody was 16 a block, a block and a half away from the place, 17 and you think, well, they must have been outside 18 with loudspeakers for them to hear. They had an 19 engineer come in and he testified about the - - 20 this - - the sound waves that were within this 21 range went down through the foundation, through 22 the sewer pipes, up this and that. 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Club H2O. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Turned up in this 25 guy's house. And I actually believe that that's 00151 1 possible, because I had a similar experience to 2 that, which I'm sharing with you. And it wasn't 3 from subwoofers, and it wasn't from some - - So 4 what I'm saying to you is I believe that you 5 could possibly stand across the street and not 6 actually hear the - - this - - this noise, this 7 music you're referring to. But you could be in 8 that building across the street up on the third, 9 fourth, seventh or eighth floor, and you could 10 hear that - - that - - that vibration. That 11 somehow traveling through the infrastructure and 12 possibly - - possibly resonating or whatever you 13 call it. Okay. If I - - If had the time and the 14 energy left in the day, I'd figure this all out 15 and give it to you in more scientific terms, but 16 I believe that - - So I believe that's one 17 possibility where people are saying, all right, 18 the music's not that loud, but they're still 19 experiencing it. That's number one. 20 Number two, the other thing I - - I - - 21 I - - And I'm - - I'm not accusing anybody of 22 anything, but I think is possible. So if - - if 23 a squad is called, if police are dispatched to a 24 place that has loud music, when you see the squad 25 car drive up. Say these guys aren't real 00152 1 discreet about it. Somebody from the place, 2 especially with the DJ being right by the window 3 there, might say, "Squad car just pulled up. 4 Let's turn her down a couple notches." I see 5 that - - I'm not accusing you of that. I'm 6 saying that's a possibility that that happens, 7 and that that's not - - That's probably not a 8 management policy, but I know it happens in a lot 9 of places in my neighborhood, where they'll see 10 the squad drive up and then the music gets turned 11 down, and then after the squad leaves the music 12 goes up again. That's number two. 13 Number three, the - - A lot of the 14 people, some of the people that aren't like the 15 regular crowd here, but say that they live 16 downtown, they go to the place once in a while, 17 they go there earlier in the evening. And as 18 probably referring to - - Both you probably 19 haven't been in there at one o'clock, 1:30 in the 20 morning, where I think that's where the - - the 21 danger and the level of the music would be the 22 highest. I - - I don't think there's anyplace 23 that you - - you will go at cocktail hour, six or 24 seven o'clock, where you're going to walk in 25 there and say, hey this music is too loud. So I 00153 1 think some of the people that testified and said, 2 well, the music's not that loud, maybe you 3 weren't in there at - - at one o'clock or 1:30 in 4 the morning here the music may have been loud. 5 So those are my - - Though I'm trying 6 to - - I'm trying to figure out, because I think 7 that all the witnesses we had today were 8 credible, whether they were for the - - opposed 9 to the renewal of this license or supporting the 10 renewal of this license. So in my mind, I'm 11 trying to figure out how can they be - - how - - 12 I don't think anybody here lied at this table. 13 So I'm trying to figure out how can - - how can 14 they be experiencing one thing and these other 15 people being experiencing another thing. And 16 those are my three theories. 17 So with that, if no one else has 18 anything to say on this, is there any other 19 discussion on this motion, which is a 15 day 20 suspension based on - - of the Tavern and Tavern 21 Dance license, based on items on the police 22 report and neighborhood testimony. Is there any 23 further discussion on the motion? And we will 24 take a roll call on the motion. 25 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Bohl? 00154 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: No. 2 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Puente? 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 4 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Wade? 5 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 6 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Dudzik? 7 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 8 CLERK ELMER: Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 10 CLERK ELMER: Motion approved. Four to 11 one. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Dudzik and 13 licensees, the committee. Mr. Dudzik. 14 Mr. Pyzyk. The hour is late. The 15 committee - - 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just wait. Wait. 17 Just everybody sit down. They're not finished 18 yet. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: The committee is going 20 to be doing findings of fact and conclusions of 21 law recommending renewal of this license with a 22 15 day suspension. You will receive a copy of 23 that recommendation. You'll have an opportunity 24 to submit written objections to that 25 recommendation. If you do so, they must be 00155 1 received by April 12th at the close of business 2 in the City Clerk's office of this building on 3 the second floor. If you submit written 4 objections, then you'll also have the ability to 5 appear before the Milwaukee Common Council when 6 it meets on this matter on April 17th, 2007. I 7 won't be here. At approximately nine a.m. on 8 that date. And you will be able to argue orally 9 for your position. Will you accept service on 10 behalf of the corporation? 11 MR. PYZYK: I will do that, Mr. 12 Schrimpf. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you very much. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And I want to add 15 one thing before you leave. You - - We're all 16 going to be here a year from now, and if - - if 17 you all know - - Whatever the problems are, I - - 18 I don't know if they are. I just gave you my 19 three theories. But whatever those problems are, 20 if you don't - - If you don't figure out how to, 21 you know - - If you don't figure out how to 22 resolve them, and these people come back here and 23 give us the same credible test - - testimony next 24 year, I may not - - I, for one, might have to - - 25 to view this a little bit differently. 00156 1 MR. PYZYK: Mr. Witkowiak - - Alderman 2 Witkowiak, I - - I apologize. My clients, I 3 think, before this committee, have shown that 4 they're always willing to work with the 5 association. We've asked to meet with the 6 association. Mr. Dan Hlavachek, and he said it's 7 impossible to get a meeting called. But my 8 client's cooperation and what I've stated here 9 today will not cease. We will move forward to 10 try and resolve these issues with these 11 additional recommendations that we make. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I don't want 13 anybody getting attitudes over all the stuff that 14 - - that came over the table here at this 15 committee. 16 MR. PYZYK: We are not. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I want you all to 18 walk out of here, and whatever differences there 19 are, I want to see them worked out for - - 20 MR. PYZYK: We want to work with it, 21 also. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 23 MR. PYZYK: Honestly. Thank you so 24 much for your - - your kind attention. Thank 25 you. 00157 1 * * * * * 2 3 4 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 5 ) 6 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 7 8 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 9 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 10 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 11 proceedings is a complete transcript of the 12 above-entitled matter that came before the Licenses 13 Committee Hearing held March 27, 2007. 14 15 16 17 18 19 JEAN M. BARINA 20 Court Reporter 21 22 23 Dated this day of April 2007. 24 25