00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Class "B" Tavern renewal 6 application for: 7 MARTIN BEAUDOIN CMR FOODS, LLC 8 THE RED DOT 2498 North Bartlett Avenue 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair 12 ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK 13 ALD. ROBERT PUTENTE ALD. WILLIE WADE 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON 15 NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by TOM WESSEL HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE 16 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 17 18 19 Proceedings had and testimony given in 20 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 21 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 22 the 24th day of April, 2007. 23 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Martin Beaudoin, 3 Agent for "CMR Foods, LLC", Class "B" Tavern 4 renewal application for "The Red Dot" at 2498 5 North Bartlett Avenue. 6 Could you - - Could you please raise 7 your right hand, so we can swear you in? 8 (Whereupon the Applicant was sworn.) 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Name and address 10 for the record, please. 11 THE APPLICANT: Martin Beaudoin, B-E-A- 12 U-D-O-I-N. 3278 North Knoll Terrace, Wauwatosa 13 53222. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Martin, do you 15 admit to receiving notice in the mail there's a 16 possibility your application could be denied 17 because of items contained on the police report 18 and neighborhood objections to the renewal due to 19 the premises being operated in such a manner that 20 it creates a public nuisance, and the conduct on 21 the premises includes loud raucous music, noise 22 which has substantial and adverse impact on the 23 health, safety, convenience and prosperity of the 24 neighborhood. And additional objections that 25 include loitering, littering, trespassing, loud 00003 1 music, disorderly patrons during and after hours 2 and disturbing the peace, and public urination. 3 Did you receive one of those notices? 4 THE APPLICANT: Yes, I did. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And state 6 your appearance, please, for the record. 7 MR. ARENA: Martin Beaudoin appears by 8 counsel, Andrew Arena. At this time for - - 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Health Department. 10 HEALTH DEPARTMENT: Health Department 11 has no objection. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Neighborhood 13 Services? 14 DNS: No objections. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. This may be 16 a good opportunity for you gentlemen to go grab 17 some lunch. It will probably be a few minutes 18 before we hear the next case. 19 MR. ARENA: Mr. Chairman, at this time 20 I would like to enter into the record 21 information, packets that we put together, 22 actually hopefully in an aid of speeding the 23 process along today. I have one copy for each 24 member of the committee. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Are - - Are they 00004 1 pertinent to matters in the notice here? 2 MR. ARENA: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Let's take 4 a look at them, and then we'll decide on 5 accepting them. Alderman Bohl moves to accept 6 this packet of information given to us by 7 Attorney Arena and make it part of the permanent 8 record in this hearing. And hearing no 9 objections, so ordered. 10 I just want to ask our staff assistant. 11 Do we have - - Do we have to identify each one of 12 these now, or can - - 13 CLERK ELMER: I would say no. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are they - - Are they 15 identified somehow or other within the document? 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, there's 17 photographs with numbers next to them and - - 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: And Alderman Dudzik is 19 indicating to me that there's corresponding 20 numbers, so that will be okay. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: We'll just 22 consider this as a packet then and refer to 23 information in the packet. 24 Let's start with the - - Start with the 25 police report. Sergeant Ulickey? 00005 1 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On 10/3 of '06 the 2 applicant received a citation for noise, nuisance 3 at 2498 North Bartlett Avenue. He was found 4 guilty and fined 100 dollars. 5 Excuse me. On 11/28 of '06 police were 6 dispatched to investigate a loud music complaint 7 at the Red Dot, 2498 North Bartlett. Officer 8 spoke to the complainant who stated she wanted a 9 citation issued for the loud music that had been 10 coming from the tavern for the last three nights. 11 Due to the time the officers received the call 12 the tavern had closed. Officers conducted 13 follow-up the next day. They issued a citation 14 to the bar manager, John Sekutowski, who stated 15 he took full responsibility for the music, and 16 that the levels were at - - were at an acceptable 17 manner. He - - Your information says if there is 18 a trial. However, that trial did commence, and 19 he was found guilty of noise, nuisances and fined 20 237 dollars. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Do you have any 22 questions of the police report? 23 MR. ARENA: No. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Can I see - - Can 25 I see a show of hands who is here to testify in 00006 1 opposition for the renewal of this license? 2 Okay. For - - I'd like all of you to raise your 3 right hand, the people that are going to testify 4 in opposition, and we'll swear you in. Now I see 5 we have four people here. Is that correct? That 6 are raising their hands right now. Okay. Swear 7 them in, please. 8 (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.) 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Because of the 10 amount of testimony that we're probably going to 11 take in this hearing now, what I would - - I want 12 everyone to use the standing microphone over 13 here, and please come up and give us your 14 testimony. Try to be - - Try to be as succinct 15 as possible. Don't go off on tangents. Don't 16 give us too many opinions. You have to state the 17 facts. We're just going to try and be - - I 18 really appreciate that so many people came down 19 for this hearing, but we have to be - - we have 20 to be efficient and stay on track with this 21 testimony. So we - - We'd love to hear 22 everyone's life story, but just give us the - - 23 the - - your name and address, how far away you 24 live from the place, and then the - - the 25 pertinent testimony that's relative to the items 00007 1 stated in this notice. 2 So if I - - Mr. Arena, do you want to 3 open with anything? 4 MR. ARENA: No. I - - And I actually 5 promised some of the witnesses that I would get 6 to them as - - to that point quickly, because 7 some of them have to go to work. So. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman D'Amato, 9 do you wish to open with anything? 10 ALDERMAN D'AMATO: Just very briefly, 11 Mister - - Mr. Chairman. Some of you may know 12 this location as the former Calderone Club on 13 Bartlett Avenue. It has been a licensed 14 establishment for many years. It is one of those 15 places that is in the middle of a residential 16 neighborhood. This is not a commercial district. 17 It's - - It's nestled among a number of houses, 18 duplexes and single families. And so, those 19 types of situations do cause problems from time 20 to time, because you have a commercial operation 21 next to people's homes. Over the year we have 22 tried to work this out between some of the 23 neighbors and Mr. Beaudoin. We have failed to do 24 so. I think that he has some solutions that 25 he'll offer at the end of the hearing. It is a 00008 1 place that is both supported by neighborhood 2 residents and opposed by neighborhood residents. 3 So it's a difficult situation. I think that 4 you'll hear from the opponents, some very real 5 concerns that they have that they've tried to 6 work out. And I think that you'll also hear from 7 supporters who are - - are regulars to the 8 establishment. The establishment does about 50 9 percent of its sales in food, and has tried to 10 establish itself as - - as a restaurant, which we 11 had originally requested from them. But my hope 12 is that through this hearing we will be able to 13 put together some very solid commitments from the 14 owner that he can engage in so that we can solve 15 these problems. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 17 Alderman. Can we have the first person to 18 testify, please, in - - in - - in opposition? 19 Come to the microphone. State your - - 20 THE WITNESS: Would it be all right if 21 I sat? 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Sure. State your 23 name and address for the record, please. 24 THE WITNESS: My name is Takis Kinis, 25 2494 North Bartlett Avenue, directly next door to 00009 1 The Red Dot. K-I-N-I-S. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And, Mr. Kinis, 3 your testimony, please. 4 THE WITNESS: The neighborhood we live 5 in is a very quiet, family neighborhood. The Red 6 Dot's business philosophy in our neighborhood is 7 not appropriate, given the fact that we are a 8 very residential neighborhood with families and 9 children. The music is consistently too loud. 10 It keeps us awake at night. We rarely get to bed 11 before two a.m. We have to get up in the morning 12 with our kids to go to school, to work. We get 13 no reprieve from this. Not on holidays, not on 14 weeknights, not on - - not during the mornings, 15 even. The loud music affects the behavior of the 16 patrons. Patrons are often exiting The Red Dot 17 speaking loudly, because they've been in an 18 environment where the music is too loud. No - - 19 No attempt is made by the staff of the bar to 20 curtail the behavior of the patrons as they 21 leave. 22 My next point, the concrete and steel 23 construction of the beer garden serves to 24 accentuate the volume of any activities happening 25 there. There have been some attempts at 00010 1 soundproofing, but they have not reduced the 2 noise. As I promised the owner, we tried the 3 courtesy of direct communication regarding the 4 volume. I tried to repeatedly remedy the 5 situation by telling the owner and his staff 6 directly that the music was too loud and to 7 please turn it down. This did not help. In 8 December of 2005 the Sunday night bartender when 9 asked to turn it down a second time that night in 10 person, refused, saying, "I won't turn it down 11 because the people will all leave." 12 Continued attempts at communication on 13 March 16th, 2006 at nine p.m. The Red Dot hosted 14 an unlicensed DJ party, which included a sound 15 system that was even louder than normal. After 16 the first few notes boomed through our walls, I 17 went next door and told the owner directly that 18 it was way too loud and must be turned down. "I 19 forgot about you," was the response I got. 20 Despite assurances, there was no improvement. I 21 asked again. The pounding music continued. We 22 called the police. Officer Paul Vento came into 23 our home that night and verified the music was 24 way beyond an acceptable level. He went next 25 door. Asked them to turn it down. They did so 00011 1 only temporarily. He encouraged us to issue a 2 citation since our prior request had been 3 ignored. Despite the disrespect that we 4 received, we still gave them a chance, the 5 benefit of the doubt, only to find more 6 disrespect. We opted not to have a citation 7 issued in hope that we could talk to the owner 8 again to resolve and prevent further noise 9 problems. The owner did not return our calls and 10 did not contact us again until December, 2006, 11 nine months later, after we requested a third 12 noise citation. He did this by e-mail, in which 13 he CC'd several people, calling us 14 uncommunicative and - - and our complaints to the 15 police unwarranted. 16 These weren't the only issues brought 17 to the attention of The Red Dot staff. For 18 example, the first - - the night of their first 19 noise citation, which the officer mentioned 20 earlier, the police officers in their citation 21 stated that the beer garden noise was excessive 22 over 100 feet away. The owner was present that 23 night. Did not call the next day to apologize or 24 to provide suggestions for remedy or noise 25 containment. 00012 1 Further, The Red Dot has the inability 2 to control the behavior of their patrons in our 3 neighborhood. On Saturday, September 30th at 4 2:30 a.m. - - from 2:30 a.m. to 3:15 a.m. there 5 was a fight that broke out amongst Red Dot 6 patrons in the intersection in front of Red Dot. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Excuse me. What 8 time? 9 THE WITNESS: Between the hour of 2:30 10 a.m. and 3:15 a.m. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Continue. 12 THE WITNESS: It was loud enough to get 13 us out of bed to come out and investigate. The 14 staff claimed to be unaware of the loud group of 15 eight men who insulted and threatened my wife. 16 Monday, October 9th, 1:50 a.m. Caught 17 a drunken girl, a Red Dot patron, urinating in 18 our flower garden in our front - - in front of 19 our house, right in front of our windows. We 20 asked her to leave. She and her friends hurled 21 obscenities at my wife while standing under The 22 Red Dot's front windows. I informed the 23 bartender on duty, who claimed not to hear or see 24 it happen. But stated the group were regulars. 25 Additional issues. An increase in 00013 1 vehicular traffic. Patrons often speed down 2 Bartlett and up Brad - - Bradford, ignoring signs 3 and causing safety risks. The narrow streets and 4 the low speed limits in our neighborhood were not 5 designed for this volume of traffic, nor excess 6 speed, particularly after ten p.m. at night. 7 Parking. There are many residents that 8 have no off-street parking in our neighborhood. 9 The neighborhood cannot handle the parking 10 demands of The Red Dot after ten p.m. Red Dot 11 customers take up most available spaces. This is 12 worse during the winter months, when there is 13 absolutely no parking in front of The Red Dot on 14 the south side of Bradford Avenue. No similar 15 restrictions exist on Thomas, one block to the 16 south. Most overflow parking ends up on 17 Bartlett. 18 Vandalism. We personally have had two 19 counts of vandalism on our vehicles since 20 December of 2006. In - - In December we had 21 paint thinner dumped on the hood of our car, 22 removing paint to the bare metal. This is 23 shortly after we called for a citation. That 24 should be noted. On April 17th, 2000 - - 2007, 25 just last week we suffered a sidewall puncture to 00014 1 our tire, the same day that we were in court 2 contesting the citation. We have also suffered 3 other various acts of vandalisms to our gardens, 4 planters, and holiday decorations. 5 Loitering. There have been groups of 6 people that congregate in front of The Red Dot 7 and in front of our house after bar time to have 8 loud discussions or to carry on the party. Cell 9 phone users pace in front of our house or sit on 10 our steps to talk on their phones, because it is 11 simply too loud inside The Red Dot to carry on 12 their conversations. We had submitted a video to 13 Alderman Witkowiak, and I don't know if you all 14 had a chance to see it or if it can be presented 15 here today. But the video clearly indicates some 16 of these activities, including some Red Dot 17 patrons having sex in their car, completing their 18 act and then going back into the bar. 19 Littering. Since The Red Dot has 20 opened we fre - - we frequently find bottles, 21 beer cups, cigarette butts, empty baggies, pipes, 22 lighters, vomit piles, in front of our home and 23 in the alley behind our home. There have been 24 several other neighbors complaining about the 25 broken beer bottles near The Red Dot's garbage 00015 1 cans in the alley. 2 Trespassing. Red Dot patrons have been 3 confronted by us on our steps, in our front yard, 4 and flower garden, and sitting on our vehicles 5 and in our backyard. These trespassing incidents 6 have included acts of marijuana smoking on our 7 front steps and sitting on top of our vehicle, 8 various sexual acts, tampering with our vehicles, 9 and vomiting due to over intoxication. 10 The neighborhood was designed and built 11 without thinking of noise amplification and motor 12 vehicles. Our home was built in 1880. Very 13 simply, this neighborhood was not designed to 14 house a loud rock bar. The owner is aware of the 15 close proximity of our home. Half of our home is 16 less than two feet away from their building. And 17 the portion of our home that is less than two 18 feet away is less than two feet away from a 19 portion of the building that was illegally built. 20 21 There are numerous children. Just 22 simply on the 2400 block of Bartlett we have a 23 count of over 20 children between the ages of six 24 months and 16 years. Our children, ages two and 25 five, sleep literally inches away from their 00016 1 walls. Portions of this building and its beer 2 garden were over-built onto our property and are 3 not within allowable setbacks, compounding these 4 issues. There is an over saturation of drinking 5 establishments in our area. The North Avenue bar 6 district is less than two blocks away. There are 7 two other established businesses on the 2400 8 block of Bartlett Avenue, Tess and Champions, 9 that both have Class "B" tavern licenses, and yet 10 operate with no problems and arguably are value 11 added to our neighborhood. 12 Daytime business practices are in 13 opposition to our family neighborhood. For 14 example, they have a build-your-own Bloody Mary 15 bar from noon to seven on Sundays. This 16 encourages over conupmption of alcohol during 17 daytime hours and raising safety concerns for our 18 children who are outside playing during those 19 hours. 20 There was a false portrayal of intended 21 business practices. The owner indicated to us, 22 both personally and to our neighborhood 23 association, that he was intending to run a 24 family-style restaurant much in keeping with what 25 was there before, The Calderone Club, a place 00017 1 that rarely stayed open past ten p.m. and where 2 the loudest thing was Monderosa. They understood 3 their place in the family neighborhood. 4 The place opened as a bar first, and 5 later the kitchen opened. The owner was made 6 aware that this was a quiet family neighborhood. 7 In a June, 2005 conversation with the owners we 8 informed them how the Corner Grill tried the rock 9 club approach in our quiet family neighborhood 10 and was met with great opposition by the 11 neighbors and ultimately failed as a result. 12 Despite two convictions for noise, numerous 13 ongoing complaints about the volume from the 14 neighbors, intervention from the Alderman, 15 attempts to soundproof, The Red Dot remains too 16 loud. 17 I feel that no amount of soundproofing 18 is as effective as simply reducing the volume by 19 the volume knob. Noise is seemingly the primary 20 objection we have with them, but in reality it is 21 all these issues combined. As a result of all 22 these issues, we are unable to enjoy and use our 23 property. In the summer we are unable to sleep 24 with our windows open if we choose. We cannot 25 relax in our own home when the music constantly 00018 1 intrudes. Our children can't play in their own 2 backyard when people are out in the beer garden. 3 The volume, language and behavior of the - - of 4 The Red Dot and its patrons intrude on our 5 ability to lead a peaceful family life. The Red 6 Dot and its approach of doing business are 7 ruining our neighborhood. Our lives are consumed 8 with the constant torment of their misplaced 9 business philosophy. We suffer most, because we 10 are on the front lines. We will not be able to 11 rest until it is quiet. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Kinis, I'd 13 like to - - I'd like you to submit your - - your 14 video. Do you have it with you? 15 THE WITNESS: I do. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I would like you 17 to submit that. Alderman Bohl moves to accept 18 the - - the video as part of this testimony. 19 Hearing no objections, so ordered. I would like 20 that shown at this time. And because this is 21 your testimony, then I want you to comment and 22 answer any questions on it. 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 25 ALDERMAN WADE: Before we show the 00019 1 video. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: He - - He said that 4 there were sexual acts being - - going on in 5 front of the bar and going back into the bar. I 6 thought he said that that was on videotape. 7 We're not going to show that section of it, are 8 we? 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is there - - Is 10 there anything on there that a person under the 11 age of 18 should not see? 12 THE WITNESS: No. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. Thank you. 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, just so 16 that the witness and the committee is aware, I 17 - - there are some dates that went by me sort of 18 fast as the witness was testifying, and I'd 19 appreciate it if I could have those dates. We 20 don't have to do it now. I just need those 21 dates. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Did - - And I - - 23 I can ask you, sir. Did - - Did you read your 24 entire testimony from those papers in front of 25 you? 00020 1 THE WITNESS: I - - I believe so. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You did. I mean, 3 we could submit that. Would that be proper? 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: It doesn't have to. He 5 testified to it. It doesn't have to come in 6 before the committee, but if I could just have a 7 copy of it so I can get the dates, if they're in 8 there. That's all right. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is that okay with 10 you? 11 THE WITNESS: You can have this 12 physical copy. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, while 14 we're waiting. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman - - 16 Alderman Puente. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sir, regarding the 18 - - the building and that impeding on your 19 property, where - - where is that at, if - - if 20 your accusations are accurate, what's happening 21 with that? 22 THE WITNESS: Well, it's not something 23 that the current owners did. It was something 24 that was pre-existing. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, okay. Thank you. 00021 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. I'd like to 2 see the video at this time. 3 (Whereupon the video was viewed.) 4 "July 23rd at about 9:20 p.m. 5 Thursday, April 5th, 2007." 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 7 I just want to ask you a couple questions, 8 because the - - I mean, some of the video was a 9 little bit hard to see. But in the - - in the 10 captions or where you've referred to people 11 actually passing a pipe, was a little bit hard to 12 see on the TV. Did you actually see that? 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You did. Okay. 15 And when you referred to people coming out of the 16 establishment with alcohol beverages in their 17 hand, did you actually see people either exit 18 and/or re-enter the tavern with those beverages 19 as you said on the - - 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You did. Okay. 22 Any questions by members of the committee? 23 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 25 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Just to, and it may 00022 1 have been touched on earlier, and I - - I just 2 missed them. How long have you lived there? 3 THE WITNESS: We've owned the home 4 since - - well, for seven and a half years now. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: That's all I needed 6 to know. Okay. And to the owner or his 7 attorney, did you, in fact, represent the opening 8 of this place as a family style restaurant and 9 not a bar? 10 THE APPLICANT: It's a neighborhood 11 restaurant, you know, family - - you know. And - 12 - And we did have an issue where we renovated the 13 entire pro - - the entire place, and it was - - 14 There was a seven month period where we opened 15 without the kitchen, because we had to do 16 extensive remodeling to the kitchen. So we did 17 renovate the - - the bar area, and then we opened 18 that just to get some money generating. And then 19 we opened the kitchen. And since then, we've 20 been operating as a full service restaurant. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. Now so if 22 I am of the mind to frequent your establishment 23 at midnight, I would find people eating - - I 24 don't have your menu - - all sorts of fare off 25 your menu. 00023 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. Well, we stop 2 serving at - - We serve until ten on, you know, 3 during the week, and Friday and Saturday we serve 4 until 11. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I know you've called 9 on the noise complaint. What about the illegal 10 drug activity and the illegal taking out of the 11 bar drinks? 12 THE WITNESS: Well, we've discussed 13 these issues with police officers, but 14 unfortunately, those types of activities are 15 pretty fleeting. By the time you make a call, 16 people have disappeared that are doing those 17 things. But Officer Revokowski, which is the 18 community liaison, is aware of those things. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - Just hold on 21 a second. I just want to say something. You're 22 - - You're going to see us rotating out for lunch 23 now. There's audio and visual in the anteroom. 24 So anybody that's on this committee that's 25 rotating out for lunch will pay attention while 00024 1 they're eating lunch, and they will - - Because 2 when we vote on this I don't want anybody to come 3 back and say, well, this guy missed half the 4 testimony or whatever as - - as Alderman Bohl 5 just told me, he saw everything that's gone on so 6 far, because he was just in the next room. So if 7 you see somebody walking out of here, that 8 doesn't mean they're not paying attention to the 9 testimony. As we're going through lunch, they're 10 going to be listening to and watching what's 11 happening on the TV, will come back in here, and 12 they'll be eligible to vote on this. Where were 13 we? Any other - - Oh, Mr. Arena, questions of 14 this witness. 15 MR. ARENA: Mr. Kinis, seven and a half 16 years you owned the house, but you haven't lived 17 in that house all seven and a half years, have 18 you? 19 THE WITNESS: No. We spent a 20 significant portion of time remodeling the 21 interior, and given the fact that we have small 22 children, we had a rental place down the street 23 that we housed them in during some of that time. 24 MR. ARENA: And when is it that you 25 moved into the house, if you can recall? Was 00025 1 that in '05? 2 THE WITNESS: No, it was in '04. 3 MR. ARENA: All the renovations were 4 done by '04? 5 THE WITNESS: No. The renovations are 6 still not done. They're ongoing. 7 MR. ARENA: Well, what is the date that 8 you actually lived in the house full time? 9 THE WITNESS: The specific date? I'd 10 say it was like - - 11 MR. ARENA: Just an estimate. 12 THE WITNESS: - - December 1st of 2004. 13 MR. ARENA: Okay. Did Martin Beaudoin 14 own The Red Dot at that time, the building? 15 THE WITNESS: No. 16 MR. ARENA: And he spoke to you at some 17 point in time when he was purchasing the 18 building? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. ARENA: And he told you that he 21 wanted to do a restaurant. Correct? 22 THE WITNESS: Correct. 23 MR. ARENA: And you're aware, that you 24 lived next door, that there was extensive issues 25 with the kitchen and, in fact, the street had to 00026 1 be dug up for new pipes to be put in. Do you 2 recall that? 3 THE WITNESS: I did see work going on. 4 MR. ARENA: Do you recall the street 5 being dug up and the pipes being put in? 6 THE WITNESS: Sure. 7 MR. ARENA: These issues of vandalism 8 to your car, you didn't see those - - those 9 incidents take place. Correct? 10 THE WITNESS: No. No, I didn't. 11 MR. ARENA: You have no idea who did 12 that. 13 THE WITNESS: No, of course not. All I 14 have is the coincidence of calling for a citation 15 due to noise, and then having damage to one car. 16 Going to court to fight another citation, and 17 having a flat tire. 18 MR. ARENA: Now, you've told me and 19 there's been testimony in - - in court that you 20 can hear the music inside the house? 21 THE WITNESS: That's true. 22 MR. ARENA: And - - but you didn't do 23 any recording inside of the house? 24 THE WITNESS: The type of noise that we 25 hear inside the house is of like subsonic 00027 1 frequencies, which are difficult to pick up 2 unless you have specialty recording equipment 3 that can pick up those frequencies. These are 4 frequencies that are mostly felt, not heard. But 5 at times it is loud enough where we can hear it, 6 where we can actually tell you, oh, they're 7 playing Spandel Ballet, this song, oh, Ronnie 8 James Dio, you know, I mean, we - - we actually 9 have very similar tastes in music to what they're 10 playing. So we can identify some of the music. 11 MR. ARENA: Okay. Have you ever been 12 inside and saw the type of sound system that 13 you're - - you're hearing from the front? 14 THE WITNESS: Early on, I - - I was - - 15 I always questioned the placement of the speakers 16 being up near the ceiling. The ceilings, I 17 think, are like 12 or 14 feet tall. 18 MR. ARENA: Do you recall how many 19 speakers were in the location when you were 20 there? 21 THE WITNESS: The first time I was 22 there, I believe it was four. 23 MR. ARENA: And how long ago was that? 24 THE WITNESS: Well, let's see. 25 Probably about a year and a half ago. 00028 1 MR. ARENA: And you recall last 2 December, Martin Beaudoin e-mailing and 3 requesting information about types of noise, so 4 that he could try to address them. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MR. ARENA: And did he tell you at that 7 time that he had made some changes? 8 THE WITNESS: The e-mail was not 9 addressed to me, nor did I respond to it. I did 10 read it. There was indication that speakers were 11 removed and soundproofing was done. Although, 12 there was a little bit of reduction in noise for 13 a short while after that. The - - I mean, we had 14 to call the police again this past Sunday because 15 the music was too loud, less speakers, 16 soundproofing and all. 17 MR. ARENA: Are you aware - - 18 THE WITNESS: They rarely turn the 19 volume down. 20 MR. ARENA: - - if a citation - - Or 21 are you aware if a citation was issued? 22 THE WITNESS: No, a citation was not 23 issued. 24 MR. ARENA: Now, on November 28th, that 25 was the day that was a subject of a - - a trial 00029 1 for a municipal ticket. Correct? 2 THE WITNESS: Correct. 3 MR. ARENA: And on that date, my memory 4 of the testimony in that trial was that there was 5 a Monday night football game in which the Green 6 Bay Packers were playing. Correct? 7 THE WITNESS: I believe that's correct. 8 MR. ARENA: And you were home that 9 evening. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 MR. ARENA: And prior to the end of the 12 football game you could not hear people yelling 13 or making noise in regards to anything going on 14 in the football. Right? 15 THE WITNESS: While - - While the game 16 was going, everything was pretty quiet. 17 MR. ARENA: Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: Afterwards, the music got 19 cranked up. 20 MR. ARENA: And you, I believe, called 21 the police, and the next evening the police 22 issued a citation. Correct? 23 THE WITNESS: Well, the - - the officer 24 arrived after bar close. I think he delivered 25 the citation to Mr. Sekutowski the next day. 00030 1 MR. ARENA: And were you present during 2 the officer - - officer's testimony during the 3 trial? 4 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was. 5 MR. ARENA: And you recall that he 6 testified that when he went there, he couldn't 7 hear noise from 50 feet away. 8 THE WITNESS: Of course not. They were 9 closed. 10 MR. ARENA: Well, how did he issue a 11 citation to somebody that was closed? 12 THE WITNESS: Based upon our complaint, 13 which is the ordinance. 14 MR. ARENA: But he went to The Red Dot 15 and issued the citation while the people were 16 there, didn't he? 17 THE WITNESS: Right. During dinner 18 hours, when it's quiet. Our issue is after ten 19 o'clock when the kitchen closes. 20 MR. ARENA: So there's no issue with 21 the kitchen now, you're saying? 22 THE WITNESS: There was a - - a short 23 period of time actually leading up to the 28th, 24 three or four nights in a row loud music at 25 night, and then we're getting loud music first 00031 1 thing in the morning at roughly like eight a.m. 2 like when the kitchen staff is coming in. They 3 got like a boom box in there or something. I 4 believe that's been removed, because we haven't 5 heard that since. But we were getting it on both 6 ends of the clock, first thing in the morning, 7 last thing at night. 8 MR. ARENA: Okay. So just so we're 9 clear - - 10 THE WITNESS: Because we're in - - mind 11 of you, too. 12 MR. ARENA: Just - - Just so we're 13 clear, so we have the time frame. From about 14 November through now, you don't hear that music 15 playing in the kitchen. You haven't heard it. 16 THE WITNESS: After that point, no. We 17 - - We haven't heard that specific stereo system 18 in the kitchen, but we still hear music coming 19 from the front part of the building. 20 MR. ARENA: Okay. I have nothing 21 further at this time. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Our 23 next witness, please. Your name and address for 24 the record. 25 THE WITNESS: My name is Terry Kinis. 00032 1 I'm the wife of the recent testimony. I live at 2 2494 North Bartlett Avenue, next door to The Red 3 Dot. I believe my husband has covered many of 4 the issues that we would like to bring to light. 5 I'd like to reiterate, though, that patron 6 behavior in our neighborhood is completely 7 inappropriate and unsupervised. There have been 8 many incidents where staff of the bar has been 9 informed of incidents that had - - had happened 10 right after they happened. There have been no 11 attempts made to contact us by the - - by the 12 owner of the establishment, hopes to re-mediate 13 these situations, explain them or apologize for 14 them. 15 It's not an exaggeration that our 16 children will no longer play in their backyard as 17 long as anyone is out on the patio. I think you 18 can see from the video how loud and obscene the 19 daytime patrons can be. There are so many 20 incidents that we've witnessed personally and 21 were not able to - - to film. The film that you 22 witnessed was not the worst of the behavior by 23 the patrons and not the loudest of noise and 24 music from this establishment. We did not make a 25 point of running around with a camera waiting for 00033 1 things to happen. If we had film in the camera 2 or the batteries were - - were charged up, we 3 caught incidents. 4 Unfortunately, we - - I did not catch 5 on film one of the six people I have caught in 6 person on my yard urinating since October of 7 2006. One such incident - - I have a journal, if 8 I may read from the journal. One such incident 9 was December 28th, I believe. A gentleman 10 stepped out of the bar at about 10:30. I could 11 hear somebody talking in my front yard. I looked 12 out of the win - - looked out of the window. He 13 was on his cell phone, urinating in my front 14 garden, talking to his friend while he was 15 urinating on my front garden, telling him he was 16 at The Red Dot, using expletives, come down to 17 The Red Dot, and knocked on the window. He waved 18 to me, zipped up, walked back to The Red Dot. 19 There - - There are six different incidents of 20 people that I've caught urinating on my yard. 21 The way my gardens smell, it might be a nightly 22 occurrence, and this is both men and women 23 squatting in my front yard in a very public 24 place. Lights are on in our home. It's very 25 obvious that people live there, that it is a 00034 1 quiet residence. 2 I am a neighbor - - I am a resident of 3 this neighborhood for 18 years. I lived in the 4 2400 block of Oakland or Bartlett for a total of 5 18 years. Have owned this home for seven years. 6 I'm very well aware of what this neighborhood was 7 like before this bar moved in. There were no 8 problems with noise from the Calderone Club. 9 There were no incidents of urination or loitering 10 or illegal drug activity. We have two wonderful 11 businesses in our neighborhood that I appreciate 12 and feel are value added. We have Champions at 13 the other end of the block. The family that owns 14 the bar lives above the bar, and their in-laws 15 live across the street. They're very involved in 16 the neighborhood. Across the street from us and 17 The Red Dot is Tess, a wonderful business that 18 has helped improve the quality of the 19 neighborhood and is value added to the 20 neighborhood. This business closes at ten p.m. 21 There is noise from this business in spite of 22 their outdoor patio dining. Their - - I believe 23 the only way their clientele would urinate on our 24 yard is if they started serving dogs. I - - It 25 is my concern that if this behavior continues, 00035 1 clients will stop visiting the Tess establishment 2 and Tess will move from our neighborhood and we 3 will lose a decent business. I'm not opposed to 4 business in my neighborhood. If the way this 5 business conducts itself in such a small 6 residential neighborhood where there are 20 7 children under 18 is not acceptable. I - - I 8 cannot believe that the Beaudoins would allow 9 their two small children to live in this 10 environment, and we were simply here first. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 12 Questions by members of the committee? 13 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 15 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I would like - - I'd 16 like to make a copy of her journal part of the 17 permanent record, and I believe in order to do so 18 I have to make sure that you, in fact, filled out 19 that journal? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: It states what you 22 personally saw? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes, it does. 24 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: In - - In front of or 25 in the area of your home? 00036 1 THE WITNESS: May - - May I address the 2 committee that many of these entries were written 3 at three or four in the morning, and I think some 4 of the language reflects that. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: We'll forgive any 6 spelling errors. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: This isn't English 8 class. 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, one more 11 question. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: And the events recorded 14 in this journal occurred or were recorded into 15 the journal at or about the time that they were 16 occurring? 17 THE WITNESS: After they - - After they 18 occurred, yes. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How long after? 20 Within - - 21 THE WITNESS: Sometimes minutes. 22 Sometimes hours, depending on what the situation 23 was and what time it was. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. It wasn't 25 like a month later. 00037 1 THE WITNESS: No. No, no, no. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. And at 3 this time Alderman Dudzik moves to make the, what 4 we've identified as the - - your testimony 5 journal, journal relating to this testimony, part 6 of the permanent record in this hearing, and 7 hearing no objections, so ordered. Okay. Any 8 other questions from members of the committee of 9 this witness? No. Mr. Arena. Oh, do - - do you 10 have anything to add? 11 THE WITNESS: May I just state that the 12 - - the amount of police involvement to request 13 the owner to simply turn his stereo down is - - 14 is a tax upon the City when there are several 15 more serious issues going on in the neighborhood. 16 Office Ray Revokowski, the neighborhood liaison, 17 and Alderman D'Amato have been very pro-active in 18 trying to re-mediate the situation. Alderman 19 D'Amato was aware of the situation in March of 20 2006, and has spoken to the owner. 21 Unfortunately, things must not be heard that - - 22 that we have to appear here today. He has not 23 made good on his promise of delivering a family 24 restaurant. He made that promise to me 25 personally at a neighborhood association meeting, 00038 1 that it would be a family style restaurant, much 2 in keeping with the old Calderone Club. Those 3 were the words he used. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 5 Arena, do you have any questions of this witness? 6 MR. ARENA: Yes, I do. It's true that 7 on the November 28th incident, I don't know if it 8 was you or your husband, but you - - you called 9 the police. Right? 10 THE WITNESS: Correct. 11 MR. ARENA: Citation was issued. 12 THE WITNESS: Correct. 13 MR. ARENA: And on December 3rd you 14 received an e-mail from Martin. Correct? 15 THE WITNESS: Correct. 16 MR. ARENA: And that e-mail had an 17 apology and asked for examples and - - and things 18 that he could address. Correct? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, it did. I have a 20 copy of that here. Yes, it did. 21 MR. ARENA: And you're aware that 22 through other e-mails, I guess, that I believe 23 you received, he had made some sound panels, 24 removed some speakers, and made some changes. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am aware of that. 00039 1 In spite of that there have been continued 2 problems with noise. 3 MR. ARENA: Okay. And - - And do you 4 agree with your husband that this music that you 5 hear from the kitchen, that's not been an issue 6 at this point? 7 THE WITNESS: It was - - It did 8 continue to be an issue into December. He did 9 not remove the kitchen stereo until the third 10 citation was requested in mid December. 11 MR. ARENA: And that's not an issue 12 right now. You haven't heard that. 13 THE WITNESS: It has not been an issue 14 since mid December. 15 MR. ARENA: Okay. Now, do you agree 16 with your husband that this is - - you're hearing 17 deeper tone sounds? 18 THE WITNESS: I agree it's deeper tone 19 sounds, but as my husband stated, we can also 20 identify that at 1:30 on a Tuesday night Holy 21 Diver by Ronnie James Dio was playing. So I 22 think it's more than just subsonic frequencies 23 sometimes. It's loud enough that we can tell 24 what songs are playing. 25 MR. ARENA: Okay. Have you ever called 00040 1 the police on anybody else whom you've heard 2 making noise? 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 MR. ARENA: You've never called the 5 police on Tess? 6 THE WITNESS: No. There's never been a 7 reason to call the police on Tess. They're 8 exemplary neighbors. If they have - - If they 9 have a loud situation, a situation they feel will 10 be loud, they've sent letters out to the 11 neighbors, asking for permission to do so. 12 MR. ARENA: Now, the - - the videotape. 13 You were involved in making that video? 14 THE WITNESS: I had filmed some of it, 15 and I was present for some of it. 16 MR. ARENA: When you responded to the 17 e-mail of Martin, you - - you didn't respond with 18 any information about patron - - patron behavior. 19 There's one mention on it, but you didn't say 20 anything about a videotape or ask him to see it, 21 did you? 22 THE WITNESS: I'm looking over my e- 23 mail now in response to him. And for the sake of 24 brevity instead of reading my whole e-mail, I do 25 believe - - 00041 1 MR. ARENA: I - - I know it's in there. 2 I - - 3 THE WITNESS: I do believe that I did 4 make mention to that, as my husband has cited 5 though, after incidents we have gone into the bar 6 and said, "Did you just witness what happened in 7 the intersection in front of your business?" 8 "Did you just hear what happened right in front 9 of - - right underneath your windows?" Nobody 10 seems to be aware of what's going on around the 11 - - this establishment, but yet it is patron 12 noise that calls us out of our beds and outside 13 to investigate what's going on. And we have - - 14 We have completely gutted our home, reinsulated, 15 and re - - re-drywalled. Our home is 16 soundproofed to modern measures, and we're still 17 hearing this noise. 18 MR. ARENA: Is it your testimony that 19 you addressed those issues to Martin, himself? 20 THE WITNESS: It is not my testimony 21 that we addressed it to Martin. We addressed it 22 to staff and asked staff to relay this to Martin. 23 It's - - I believe it's a matter of staff 24 concerns, if they're not relaying to the owner 25 that there are problems cited by the neighbors. 00042 1 MR. ARENA: No further questions. 2 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chair. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 4 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I just want to back 5 up a little bit. Is it your testimony that your 6 children do not have the ability to enjoy their 7 backyard even during daylight hours? 8 THE WITNESS: They're afraid to be in 9 their backyard during daylight hours if someone's 10 on the patio. 11 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 12 THE WITNESS: They're afraid. They are 13 woken up at night and they think there's monsters 14 in their yard. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: I've got a question, 18 too, for Mr. Beaudoin. Mr. Beaudoin, what - - 19 how involved are you in this establishment in 20 terms of hours that you provide on site? 21 THE APPLICANT: I'm on site? I'm on 22 site during - - well, during the day, but I - - I 23 - - My schedule shifts are Wednesday, four to 24 ten, Thursday, Friday, until two a.m., and 25 Sunday, I work Sunday brunch. 00043 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: So you're there Fridays 2 into Saturday mornings up to two a.m. 3 THE APPLICANT: Correct. Along with 4 another bartender and a bouncer. 5 ALDERMAN BOHL: Do you ever go outside 6 during the hours of operation when you're there? 7 THE APPLICANT: From time to time, but 8 that's what the bouncer does. 9 ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. 10 THE APPLICANT: The doorman. 11 ALDERMAN BOHL: I - - And one of the 12 reasons I'm going to - - I'm - - I'm posing that 13 question is, in your belief, do you believe that 14 a neighbor has to come and tell you that the type 15 of conduct that we see in that video is going on, 16 if you're present? I mean, are you living in the 17 twilight zone in a vacuum in your establishment? 18 Is there like a soundproof - - soundproof 19 telephone booth where, you know, you're working 20 in that, and you're just not aware, oblivious? 21 THE APPLICANT: No. 22 ALDERMAN BOHL: I know where you live 23 on Knoll Boulevard. I live just blocks away on 24 the other side of Menomonee River Parkway, just 25 inside Milwaukee, just a block north of Burleigh. 00044 1 Do you think your neighbors on Knoll Boulevard 2 would tolerate even half of the crap that we saw 3 on that video? 4 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 5 ALDERMAN BOHL: You know what? They 6 would toss your butt out of the City, and you'd 7 have the City of Wauwatosa evicting you and yank 8 your occupancy to even live on that property. I 9 know it. I've got Wauwatosa neighbors. They 10 wouldn't tolerate it. The only thing I can say 11 is - - is how dare you as an owner. How dare you 12 play oblivious to this - - You know what? You 13 know, it's just - - it's just not tolerable. 14 It's not tolerable. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. I'd 16 like to hear the testimony of the next witness, 17 please. 18 THE WITNESS: Good morning. Is it 19 still morning? 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. No, it's 21 afternoon. I'm sorry. 22 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Good afternoon. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Time flies. 24 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I'm vertically 25 challenged. Sorry. My name is Susan Wrigley, 00045 1 with a W, just like the gum. I live at 2523 2 North Bartlett Avenue, Milwaukee 53211. I am 3 about half a block north of The Red Dot on the 4 west side of the street. Don't want to go 5 through all of the things you've already heard, 6 other than to say, I was present at the same 7 neighborhood association meeting that you were, 8 where I heard the owner state that he intended to 9 operate an - - an establishment very similar to 10 the Calderone Club, which was a restaurant that 11 served alcohol. The people that came out of that 12 restaurant after dinner were not reeling, 13 stumbling, yelling, shouting, screaming, and they 14 didn't leave at two a.m. 15 I bought my house 12 years ago, and one 16 of the things that sold me on the house was 17 partly the neighborhood, but partly it's got a 18 double-story front porch, right smack in the 19 front of the house, and lucky me, my bedroom is 20 in the front of the house right off the second 21 floor porch. So in the summer when I have my 22 interior door open, I have the joy of being 23 awakened on a regular basis, especially on 24 weekends, not every weekend, but often enough it 25 is a concern, by people yelling, screaming, 00046 1 calling to each other up and down the street as 2 you heard on the video. That is a common 3 occurrence. 4 They're 20 something for the most part, 5 and they're drunk for the most part. I have seen 6 people who could barely walk get into cars and 7 drive them away. Nobody says, wait a minute, let 8 me take your keys. It's just all, yeah, 9 whatever, and they're gone. I could call the 10 police. But as you said, by the time they get 11 there, they're gone. 12 I have had a spike in the last year in 13 the summertime of what I call stupid nuisance 14 kinds of vandalism. Somebody peed through the 15 screen door onto my front door. I have a post in 16 my front yard that I salvaged in the 17 neighborhood, that I regularly put a pot of 18 flowers on in the summer. And that's been kicked 19 over twice so far, and that never happened 20 before. My neighbors to the north have hedges 21 that have been crashed into three times last 22 summer with people just leaving gaping holes, and 23 I'm sure it's people just jostling each other as 24 they walk up the street. And part of the issue 25 is they are going to their cars. They don't live 00047 1 in the neighborhood. 2 We have some clout with people who live 3 in the neighborhood. We've worked very hard with 4 absentee landlords to stress that they will pay 5 the price if they have tenants who have loud 6 parties or unruly. And we've had a lot of 7 cooperation and a lot of success. But as you 8 pointed out, the owner of this establishment 9 doesn't live there, either. It's not his family 10 being disturbed. In all honesty, if I were to 11 try to put my house on the market today, which I 12 don't want to do, I don't know that I could sell 13 it with a bar up the street. That is not a 14 restaurant. It's a bar that serves food, and 15 there is a huge difference. If it was a 16 restaurant, it could close at ten o'clock and all 17 those people who are causing the problems would 18 evaporate. And then we would probably cease 19 having a problem. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 21 questions by members of the committee? Mr. 22 Arena, questions of this witness? 23 MR. ARENA: Yes, thank you. Now, have 24 you experienced - - or have there been parties at 25 houses in - - in the - - 00048 1 THE WITNESS: There have been in the 2 past, yes. 3 MR. ARENA: Have you ever called the 4 police on those parties? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MR. ARENA: And let me get this right. 7 You live on the same side of the street as Tess? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, correct. 9 MR. ARENA: But over a block - - 10 THE WITNESS: Half a block. 11 MR. ARENA: - - north? 12 THE WITNESS: Half a block to the 13 north. 14 MR. ARENA: Does anybody over there, 15 any tenants over there play - - play loud music? 16 THE WITNESS: Not anymore. 17 MR. ARENA: They did. 18 THE WITNESS: Years ago, yes. 19 MR. ARENA: Well, I was just there the 20 other night, and I heard loud music coming from 21 your direction. So did you happen - - 22 THE WITNESS: Which night would that 23 be? 24 MR. ARENA: That was Monday night. 25 THE WITNESS: I'm certainly not aware 00049 1 of anything that - - that you would have heard 2 not - - I didn't hear anything. On Saturday 3 night at 10:30 I did walk out and yell at a 4 gentleman who was racing his motorcycle loudly 5 and spinning the tires and told him that enough 6 was enough, and he sped off, and the people that 7 were joining him apologized and retreated inside 8 their homes and that was the end of it. Since 9 we've had the law that held landlords partially 10 responsible for the behavior - - behavior of 11 their tenants - - Thanks, Mike - - this problem 12 has really, really lessened. Our neighborhood 13 has been for the last, wow, about five years up 14 until, maybe even longer than that, up until this 15 past summer, it really was - - had become a much 16 more quiet community. 17 MR. ARENA: Have you ever called the 18 police on Tess or - - or - - 19 THE WITNESS: Absolutely not. 20 MR. ARENA: And prior to Tess, what was 21 the name of that place? 22 THE WITNESS: The Corner Grill, I 23 believe. 24 MR. ARENA: Did you ever call the 25 police on it when it was the Corner Grill? 00050 1 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. I didn't 2 have noise issues with the Corner Grill. 3 MR. ARENA: And, I'm sorry. I 4 completely missed your name at the beginning. 5 THE WITNESS: Think Wrigley field. 6 MR. ARENA: Susan, was it? 7 THE WITNESS: Correct. 8 MR. ARENA: Got it. Thank you. 9 Nothing further. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 11 questions of this witness? Thank you for your 12 testimony. Sir, your - - your testimony, please? 13 THE WITNESS: Let's see. Can you hear 14 me? Every - - Everybody hear me? 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. We need your 16 name and address. 17 THE WITNESS: All right. Thank you. 18 My name is Ken Novak. I live at 2483 North 19 Bartlett Avenue. My property is across the 20 street from The Red Dot, three doors down to the 21 south. I have a - - a duplex that my wife and I 22 occupy the entire premise. We have a top porch 23 with a door, so I - - we're able to witness a lot 24 of the street activities as a result of the 25 operation of - - of the tavern. And I just have 00051 1 a couple of talking points here. I'll try and be 2 brief. 3 Our objections are - - are listed on my 4 - - on my notes here, but - - but not limited to 5 the loud and profane language used by the 6 intoxicated patrons, sometimes both going into 7 and out of the - - out of the establishment. The 8 general disrespect of local residents and the 9 property owners. The operation of motor vehicles 10 while - - while the - - the - - while they're - - 11 the individuals are clearly impaired or 12 intoxicated. Some of the obscene public 13 behavior. The public urination, which I - - 14 which I've witnessed on many occasion. Sexual 15 misconduct, which is - - is both in the cars and 16 some of the activities during the - - during the 17 warm summer days is out on - - in gangways 18 between houses,on - - on lawns. The unlawful use 19 and consumption of illegal drugs. There's times 20 when I've smelled marijuana coming from - - from 21 cars, when people have gone out to recreate in 22 their vehicles. And what is a huge issue, and I 23 can hear it from my property, which is probably a 24 good 100 feet, 125 feet away, is the loud and 25 boisterous shouting with music from the beer 00052 1 garden until, many times until 2:30 in the 2 morning. 3 My wife and I have lived in our home 4 for over 30 years. We're fifth generation in the 5 neighborhood, going back to 1880. My aunt was 6 the original owner of - - of Ty and Terry's 7 property, so I'm very familiar with the previous 8 license holders. The original operators prior to 9 The Red Dot, which were the Calderone Club, 10 operated a successful business that never had 11 problems and issues that we're hearing today. As 12 a neighbor we have an expectation of peace and 13 quiet. 14 Again, this is a residential 15 neighborhood. There are many families with young 16 children, and they needed to be protected from 17 the hard and the rowdy behavior of - - of 18 intoxicated patrons. It's a very sad day for me 19 when I see in the news that the City of Milwaukee 20 is recognized as the world capital of drunks and 21 statements and things like that in the media 22 really hurt me. I - - I am still very proud of 23 the City. And there are times when I'm slightly 24 embarrassed and intimated even to admit that I am 25 from the City of Milwaukee when - - when 00053 1 traveling through other parts of Wisconsin. 2 I - - I know this committee has - - I 3 feel that you have a legal and moral obligation 4 to help us and to protect the local residents. 5 And that we have to recognize that there are 6 serious problems and issues here, and - - and 7 that would require courageous decisions by this 8 committee. At this point it's - - it's 9 unfortunate, but I have to - - I have to say that 10 I believe it's in the best interest of the City 11 and the neighborhood to deny the renewal of this 12 license as it stands. We were - - we, too, had 13 expectations of a restaurant. And - - And I know 14 counsel for the - - for the license holder will 15 probably ask me this, and I have not called the 16 police on Tess. I did testify here to their 17 initial license application. We had 18 reservations, and they assured us that they would 19 have a completely upscale restaurant business, 20 and they have lived up to everything that they 21 came here and testified to. They've been a very, 22 very good citizen in the community. I did have 23 issues, and I did call the police and testify 24 against the previous operators of the - - of 25 where Tess is, and that was the - - the Corner 00054 1 Grill. We had similar issues with a premise 2 extension. And that was remedied when the - - 3 when Tess came and - - and acknowledged that 4 there were problems with the premise extension 5 and people running until 2:30 in the morning, and 6 they voluntarily limited their operations on the 7 patio at ten o'clock and they - - they do that 8 religiously. So - - So that - - It's been a very 9 positive thing. That's all I have at this point. 10 I do have a copy of my - - of - - of briefly of 11 what I've mentioned here. If you would like, I 12 can submit this to the committee. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: What's the will of 14 the committee? 15 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I didn't really hear 16 any specific facts. I mean, he read from a 17 statement, but it wasn't like a journal like the 18 other ones were. I don't know if it's 19 appropriate. 20 MR. ARENA: I guess I would object. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Novak, does that 24 provide a summation of - - of things that you've 25 experienced? 00055 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. 2 ALDERMAN BOHL: Did you write it? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 ALDERMAN BOHL: Does it relate to items 5 that you've had occur in the last year? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: As a result of the 8 establishment? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 ALDERMAN BOHL: I move that we accept 11 this particular statement as part of the official 12 record of this proceeding. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 14 Bohl is to accept this statement as part of the 15 permanent record in this hearing. That's the - - 16 the written statement summation by Mr. Ken Novak, 17 and hearing no objections, so ordered. 18 Any questions by members of the 19 committee of this witness? Mr. Arena, questions 20 of this witness? 21 MR. ARENA: Mr. Novak, if I understand 22 it correctly, your home is across the street, 23 adjacent to the garden at the south side of Tess. 24 Is that - - 25 THE WITNESS: I am - - I am - - There's 00056 1 the - - Tess has a lar - - There is a property 2 with a setback home, and then there is one house, 3 and I am the next one over. So it's - - it's 4 three doors - - It's three properties down from 5 Tess. 6 MR. ARENA: Okay. Do you ever hear 7 music coming from - - not the back patio, but the 8 building itself of The Red Dot. 9 THE WITNESS: From Tess - - From Red 10 Dot? 11 MR. ARENA: From Red Dot. 12 THE WITNESS: There have been times 13 when I've - - when I've heard it. There were a 14 periods of time when the - - when the doors were 15 left open. I can clearly hear the loud crowds on 16 the - - on the patio, and - - and that's 17 reflected sound off of Bradford Avenue. 18 MR. ARENA: Okay. No further 19 questions. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Nowak, that - - so 23 what you've just testified to is what you're 24 hearing from Tess and not from The Red Spot - - 25 Is that - - I was a little confused by the 00057 1 question and your answer. 2 MR. ARENA: He actually answered it 3 correctly, and that's not what he said, Bruce. 4 He said he does hear music from the patio from 5 The Red Dot, but not from the bar unless the door 6 is open. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Oh. 8 MR. ARENA: Correct? 9 THE WITNESS: But the patron noise - - 10 I do not hear any noise from Tess. Tess 11 basically has a - - has a pretty quiet patio. 12 And, again, they - - they close at ten o'clock, 13 the patio. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. I think my 15 confusion is cleared up. 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. 18 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: That concludes the 20 testimony of the objectors. I want everyone 21 that's going to testify in support of this 22 application, I want you all to raise your right 23 hand. We're going to swear you all in at the 24 same time. Remember, if you don't raise your 25 right hand, you can't - - you can't come and 00058 1 testify. Everybody, go ahead. 2 (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.) 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Now, we're going 4 to try to do this in an orderly fashion here. I 5 would like the - - I would like to see a show of 6 hands, these are the people that are testifying 7 in support. I would like to see a show of hands 8 of those people who live within one city block of 9 this location. Okay. I would like to hear your 10 testimony first, the people that are within one 11 block. And I want you to come to the - - We only 12 had four people test - - testifying in 13 opposition, so they let them sit. I hope nobody 14 minds unless you have any - - any physical 15 adversity to sitting, I'd like the people that 16 are going to come testify in support to stand at 17 the microphone. 18 THE APPLICANT: Just one question. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes, go ahead. 20 THE APPLICANT: One of the people 21 that's going to testify is the actual owner of 22 Tess, and - - which is basically across the 23 street. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 25 THE APPLICANT: If he could get to go 00059 1 first. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yeah, that would 3 be nice. 4 THE WITNESS: My name is Mitchell 5 Wakefield. M-I-T-C-H-E-L-L, Wakefield. My 6 address is 2110 East Greenwich Place, 53211. I 7 am the owner of Tess at 2499 North Bartlett 8 Avenue, directly across the street from The Red 9 Dot. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 11 THE WITNESS: We've been in business, 12 coming up on our fifth year. As was noted 13 previously, we came before this committee five 14 years ago to apply for our liquor license, and 15 some of the same faces that you see in opposition 16 to The Red Dot today were here voicing opposition 17 to our business plan that we had for Tess. 18 What I'd like to say in support of 19 Martin and The Red Dot is that Martin is a very 20 active owner. I see Martin there every day, 21 almost without exception. He seems to be very 22 hands-on type. Seems that he - - One of the 23 things that he struggles with though is being new 24 to this business. He doesn't have the experience 25 in the bar business in being pro-active with a 00060 1 lot of these issues that we're dealing with 2 today. And I think that that's one of the things 3 that - - that he needs to address. But he - - 4 Every time I run into Martin, every meeting we 5 have, whether it's social, whether it's business, 6 Martin is constantly picking my brain about 7 issues of how to keep noise levels down, how to 8 abate these issues before they arise, how to 9 appease the neighbors but still run a successful 10 business, and how he can co-exist in the 11 neighborhood and in the community as a productive 12 citizen and as an asset to the community. 13 And to that end, I've seen some of the 14 plans that he has. I think you have those in the 15 folder that he gave you, some of the - - the 16 plans that he has to further soundproof the 17 business, and further abate some of these issues 18 and reduce them and hopefully eliminate them at a 19 certain time. But I think this is going to take 20 a little bit of time and a little bit of effort 21 and a little bit of patience from the opposition. 22 I - - I know that nobody likes to run a business 23 that's a thorn in somebody's side. Nobody is 24 successful that way in the long term. And I 25 believe that it's Martin's intention to become a 00061 1 fully vested citizen in the community and an 2 asset to the - - the neighborhood. 3 And I also own the Harp Irish Pub 4 downtown. We have a large patio. I'm sure many 5 of you are familiar with it. A large patio. 6 Residences directly to the south of us. You 7 people have not seen me before this committee for 8 situations like this. I know how to keep 9 situations under control, noise under control, 10 and that is why I believe that Martin values my 11 input and my experience that I've had in this 12 business, and that is why he calls on me to 13 answer questions that he has as to how he can 14 further reduce and eliminate these issues. 15 That's pretty much all I'd like to say. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any - - Any 17 questions of this witness. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sir, you testified 21 that you see him there every day. Is that 22 correct? 23 THE WITNESS: I testified that I see 24 him there almost every day, I believe. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. I'll disagree 00062 1 with that, but nevertheless. What time of the 2 day is that that you see him there? 3 THE WITNESS: Various points throughout 4 the day. Sometimes in the morning. I bumped 5 into him this morning. I bump into him all the 6 time in the mornings. In the evenings, I know 7 his car. I - - I see it there. I don't think 8 anybody else has access to his car or drives it, 9 so when I see his vehicle in the neighborhood, I 10 assume that that's Marty and that he's at his 11 business, and he's either - - 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So you see the car 13 and not him. 14 THE WITNESS: I see both. But as I - - 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What do you see more 16 often? The car or him? 17 THE WITNESS: I - - I see them both. I 18 don't know - - 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I asked you which one 20 you see more often? The car or him? 21 THE WITNESS: I don't have a count of 22 the amount of times I've seen each separately, so 23 I - - I don't know how to answer that question, 24 sir. But I think there one and the same. I 25 think if is car, he's there. Like I testified, I 00063 1 don't think anybody else has access to that - - 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I disagree with that. 3 THE WITNESS: I've never seen anybody 4 pull up in his car and get out of it that wasn't 5 him. I've never seen anybody get into his car 6 and leave that wasn't him. Therefore, I have no 7 reason to believe that when his car is there 8 anybody else but him has operated it to get to 9 that point. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you, 11 sir. 12 THE WITNESS: You bet. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 14 questions of this witness by members of the 15 committee? 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: Just, sir, from 19 listening to your testimony, it seems that you 20 may be indicating that there are some problems, 21 there are some issues and some - - some concerns 22 as far as how the business is - - is integrating 23 with the community, as from your perspective. 24 THE WITNESS: That's not correct. 25 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. So - - 00064 1 THE WITNESS: This is simply based on 2 the issues that Martin has informed me of when 3 he's gotten citations issued to him and so he has 4 made me aware of that, and asked me what he can 5 do to - - to eliminate that and make sure that it 6 doesn't happen again. Personally, and maybe I 7 should have testified to this earlier, I have not 8 had one instance in almost two years now with 9 Marty about his business, his clientele, his 10 operation or any noise issues. 11 The video that was shown before by one 12 of the opposition about one of our ceramic 13 planters possibly being ruined by one of Marty's 14 customers, that's pure speculation. We have no 15 evidence to that, and that that occurred by 16 anybody coming out of The Red Dot, anybody 17 connected to The Red Dot. 18 North Avenue is two blocks away. 19 There's ten or 12 bars on there. We deal with 20 people constantly walking down Bartlett Avenue 21 from North Avenue, being loud, strewing garbage 22 around, talking above normal voice levels, and 23 that happened before Marty was there. It will 24 happen after he's there. It will happen after 25 Tess is there. It's the nature of the business, 00065 1 unless you shut North Avenue down. There's young 2 people that live in the neighborhood. They walk 3 to North Avenue. They walk back. They're drunk. 4 They make noise. They throw cigarette butts, 5 cigarette packages, soda cans, beer cans, what 6 have you. Every day I show up at my restaurant. 7 I pick up garbage off my front lawn. And it's 8 not things that Marty sells. It's not things 9 that I sell. It's soda bottles. It's beer cans. 10 He doesn't sell beer in the can. I don't sell 11 beer in the can. It's potato chip bags. It's 12 fast food bags. It's all kinds of - - 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Sir, I don't mean to be 14 rude, but you - - I forgot the question I asked 15 you. You just went all off. I mean, I just need 16 to know if you've witnessed any of the things 17 that the neighbors have complained about? Have 18 you witnessed any - - Have you witnessed any loud 19 noise? 20 THE WITNESS: Not once. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: Have you - - Have you 22 witnessed anybody smoking marijuana? Have you 23 seen any of those things - - 24 THE WITNESS: Never. 25 ALDERMAN WADE: - - as it relates to 00066 1 this gentleman's bar. So your - - your whole 2 understanding, pro or con, is based on your 3 relationship and the information that you have 4 received from the owner of the establishment. 5 THE WITNESS: And my own observances, 6 when I leave my business at night. Obviously, I 7 have ears. I can hear if there's noise emanating 8 from the business. I'm at my business every day. 9 If I'm in Milwaukee, if I'm in town, I'm at my 10 business. I leave there, 10:30, 11:30 at night, 11 I don't hear noise. I don't see congregating 12 people outside. I don't see people with open 13 drinks outside. 14 ALDERMAN WADE: That's - - That's what 15 I needed to know. Just your own personal 16 interaction with it. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I have a question. 18 Mr. Mitchell, what time do you serve food till at 19 Tess? 20 THE WITNESS: We serve various hours 21 throughout the week. Nine o'clock on Sunday and 22 Tuesday nights. We're closed Mondays. Wednesday 23 and Thursday nights we serve until ten o'clock, 24 and Friday and Saturday we serve until 11 p.m. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 00067 1 THE WITNESS: That doesn't mean the 2 restaurant closes right at that time, but that's 3 what time that the kitchen closes at, and people 4 hang out often past midnight. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. But 6 generally, I mean, a lot of times you close 7 before midnight? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So it's possible 10 that you may have been gone from your premise - - 11 THE WITNESS: Oh, sure. Absolutely. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - when something 13 happened like between midnight and 2:30 or 14 something - - 15 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - that you may 17 not have had the opportunity to observe? 18 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. I don't know 19 what happens when I'm not there, obviously. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Any other 21 questions by - - 22 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 24 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Mitchell, do - - 25 At your location, do you have outdoor dining? 00068 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, we do. 2 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And do you share a 3 wall or a fence with any of your abutting 4 neighbors? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, we do. 6 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And are those 7 neighbors residential properties? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, they are. 9 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And you were in the 10 room when the videotape was played. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was. 12 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And when you're 13 leaving your establishment at midnight, you can't 14 hear any of that. You've never heard it, never 15 heard any of that. 16 THE WITNESS: I have never heard 17 anything. 18 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 20 testimony. Next person, please, to testify. 21 THE WITNESS: Hello. My name is 22 William Stace, S-T-A-C-E. I live at 2443 North 23 Oakland Avenue. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far away is 25 that? 00069 1 THE WITNESS: It's about a little over 2 half a block. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Half a block? 4 THE WITNESS: Right. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 6 THE WITNESS: I also own the Miramar 7 Theatre on Oakland Avenue, 2800 block of Oakland 8 Avenue. And I do own a recording studio. I also 9 have been talking with Marty about his sound 10 issues. He's asked me what he can do to help cut 11 the sound down. After some of our shows at the 12 theater, we get done a lot earlier than regular 13 bars, and we go - - we go to The Red Dot after 14 our shows sometimes, and I've been in there when 15 it's full. I, myself, have not witnessed any - - 16 I can hardly hear the music in there if the place 17 is full. There's more voices than there is 18 music. 19 As far as litter and things like that, 20 I haven't observed anything. We walk our dogs 21 twice a day, early in the morning and at night. 22 I don't see any evidence of any bottles, cans, 23 litter, any kind of disturbance. We have more on 24 North Avenue, or on Oakland Avenue from people 25 coming out of North Avenue with beer bottles and 00070 1 broken stuff and loud noise than we do - - than 2 I've seen down there. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 4 questions of this witness? No. Mr. Arena, any 5 questions of this witness? 6 MR. ARENA: Do you ever walk your dogs 7 at night? 8 THE WITNESS: We walk them - - 9 Sometimes we walk them as late as seven or eight, 10 and we go by - - we go by The Red Dot when 11 they're - - when they're in business, and it 12 doesn't seem very loud to me from the street. We 13 do do it on Sunday mornings, maybe late, ten 14 o'clock in the morning, and, again, we don't hear 15 very much sound. People are very nice. They 16 like the dogs, you know - - you know, it just 17 seems like everybody's fine. 18 MR. ARENA: Have you been at The Red 19 Dot past midnight ever? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 MR. ARENA: Have you witnessed the 22 things that are - - 23 THE WITNESS: I've never seen anything 24 there, no. 25 MR. ARENA: In your belief, and based 00071 1 on what you've observed, where is the clientele 2 coming from that's going to The Red Dot? 3 THE WITNESS: I - - I believe it's 4 college, maybe a little bit older. It's sort of 5 the same clientele I have for my concerts at the 6 theater. And a lot of times I've done shows in 7 conjunction with Marty, and we've had - - After 8 my show is finished, they go to his place, 9 hopefully, and finish the night. Because my 10 nights are usually over by 12:30. And it's a lot 11 of college kids, you know, 25. Then there's also 12 older people, 30s, early 30s. Then there's 13 people like me. 14 MR. ARENA: Do you see people walking 15 to The Red Dot from within the neighborhood? 16 THE WITNESS: I haven't seen anybody 17 there. 18 MR. ARENA: That's all I have. 19 THE WITNESS: We walk to The Red Dot 20 for - - for our dinner sometimes. Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Next person to testify, please. 23 THE WITNESS: I'm Paige Schmitt. I 24 live at 2560 North Bartlett, and I have had no 25 problems with The Red Dot. As a matter - - S-C- 00072 1 H-M-I-T-T. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And how far is 3 that away - - Every time you give your name, then 4 tell us - - 5 THE WITNESS: A block. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: - - how far away 7 that is. 8 THE WITNESS: I'm a block away. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: One block. Okay. 10 Thank you. 11 THE WITNESS: But, however, I think 12 that Marty and The Red Dot is an asset to our 13 neighborhood. I first disagree that we have a 14 quiet peaceful neighborhood. We live on the east 15 side, and it will never be like Knoll Terrace in 16 Wauwatosa. Part of that is why we live there. 17 We do need to be respectful of other people's 18 right to their quiet enjoyment. However, I am 19 partially responsible, or at least I - - I am 20 aware that when I moved to the east side that 21 it's not going to be like Knoll Terrace. We are 22 right next to UWM. That's not going to change. 23 People are going to be 21. And we've had 24 problems with people in the past in - - And the 25 thing that I ask is that we have residential, 00073 1 both owner occupied, non-owner occupied, 2 landlords, owners and commercial owners that will 3 work together towards trying to curb some of this 4 behavior that everyone's talking about. And I 5 know that Marty has tried doing that since the 6 beginning. 7 I sold him the property. When I sold 8 him the property, Frank, from the Calderone Club, 9 said that he had a problem with the neighbors. I 10 am also friends with Ty and Terry, and I find 11 this an awkward situation to be in. I told 12 Marty, you know, Ty and Terry are very nice. 13 They live next door. But if Frank had a problem 14 with them, you should approach them and talk to 15 them. Because they are almost an arm's length 16 distance from this establishment. It's not like 17 Tess' patio. Tess' patio has quite a bit of dis 18 - - distance between it and the next house. They 19 could pass an egg through their windows, I'm 20 sure. So - - And I know that he tried to do 21 that, but again, he had a lot on his plate. This 22 was his first establishment. He likes the 23 neighborhood, even talked about moving back down 24 there, used to live there. 25 And, but like he said, the City, as 00074 1 soon as he bought it, he got hit with a bunch of 2 zoning and building codes. He had to dig up the 3 street, put in new sewer main. It was a - - a 4 lot of work and a lot of cost that had to go into 5 that. And that's when I think they're referring 6 to it being just a bar. And unfortunately, I 7 think that that's when people took their sides, 8 and - - and maybe Marty didn't act fast enough. 9 But I think that since then, he has done a lot to 10 try and solve this problem and has plans for in 11 the future to continue to improve the noise 12 complaints coming from them. 13 And I have small children, as well, and 14 the broken pots, I'm pretty sure are coming from 15 my neighbors across the street. They have got to 16 be the loudest duplexes around. I have broken 17 beer bottles in the front of my yard every 18 morning, cigarette butts. You name it, I have it 19 in my front yard and in my backyard and it's not 20 coming from The Red Dot. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Paige. 22 Any questions of this witness? 23 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 25 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Ma'am, you stated you 00075 1 have children? 2 THE WITNESS: I do. 3 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And do they enjoy the 4 use of their backyard? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, they do. 6 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And do they ever get 7 woken up by the other patrons that you refer to 8 coming through your neighborhood? 9 THE WITNESS: Um, our neighbors across 10 the street when they had a band, they've been 11 woken up by them. 12 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And how long ago did 13 they have a band? 14 THE WITNESS: Well, they moved, because 15 they get new tenants every year. So it just 16 depends on who is there. 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: And we're behind an 19 apartment building, as well. So there's a lot of 20 noise and traffic coming from it. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I'll go back - - 22 Excuse me - - I'll go back to my question. Do 23 your children get woken up in the middle of the 24 night by people walking in front of, behind or 25 alongside of your property? 00076 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Do your children ever 3 witness individuals urinating on your flower 4 beds? 5 THE WITNESS: No. They witnessed 6 somebody passed out on a couch in the morning, 7 and they witnessed people stealing their bikes, 8 twice. 9 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 11 questions of this witness? Mr. Arena? 12 MR. ARENA: Yes, just one. Have you 13 ever seen patrons from The Red Dot going up and 14 down the street? 15 THE WITNESS: No. 16 MR. ARENA: Okay. But people do go up 17 and down the street from various ways. 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know where 19 they're going, but there is all kinds of kids 20 walking up and down the street. And we also have 21 high school kids. But at night, usually it's UWM 22 students where they come in from Oakland, cut 23 through our yards. We don't have a fence. Going 24 to parties. The guy on the couch, he live in the 25 neighborhood. He drives by my house every night, 00077 1 too, with the lamp that was on the video. 2 MR. ARENA: So your neighborhood is 3 active. 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 MR. ARENA: A lot of activity. Have 6 you ever seen some of the things that were in the 7 videotape around your area of the neighborhood? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, there are things I 9 think that often happen near a campus. 10 MR. ARENA: Okay. 11 THE WITNESS: I'd like to see, and I 12 think that Marty's intention is to keep 13 everything legal and safe for everybody. And I - 14 - And I think that if you take away a liquor 15 license for a restaurant on the east side, that 16 you would be completely killing them. I don't 17 know too many people that are going to go out to 18 eat downtown on the east side and not want to 19 have a glass of wine with their food. So I hope 20 that we can find another solution rather than 21 completely taking it away, because then I think 22 we're going to have an abandoned building in our 23 neighborhood. It's not the kind of place a fast 24 food restaurant's going to go into. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 00078 1 witness, please. 2 THE WITNESS: Hi. My name is Robert 3 Greenya. Color, green, Y-A. I own Champions 4 Pub. I'm a block away. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Your 6 testimony. 7 THE WITNESS: I have never seen any of 8 the things I've seen on the video happen there. 9 I'm sure if you came with a video camera on a 10 certain day like St. Patrick's Day to my 11 establishment, you may see people stumbling 12 around. It's the east side. We have people - - 13 I have - - I have small children. I have a six 14 and eight year old. We eat at The Red Dot. I 15 live above my establishment. If Marty needs any 16 help, I'd be happy to help him out with sound. 17 It's - - But we have problems in the neighborhood 18 with guns, with theft, with stolen cars, that 19 aren't coming to The Red Dot or my establishment 20 or to Tess. My - - I've had two bartenders at 21 gunpoint that were five houses down the street 22 from me were stopped going home. I don't go and 23 talk to the public house and try to sue them or 24 stop anything with them. 25 We live on a dead end at the end of our 00079 1 street, and people who come off of North Avenue 2 and then turn and can't get to North, and then 3 speed the other way because now they've been 4 stuck because they couldn't get through fast 5 enough. Then they go ripping across our block to 6 try to get back up. So I think a lot of the car 7 problems is we have a dead end right there and 8 people don't realize when they come down, they 9 think they're going to get to North Avenue 10 quicker, and then they come to a dead end. Well, 11 then they get upset and they drive faster to try 12 to make up for the lack of time. 13 We - - I have people that come home. I 14 have been woken up at two in the morning by 15 unruly people. It's - - When it's 80 degrees 16 outside in Milwaukee, you want to have your 17 windows open. But we live right by North Avenue, 18 and the people walk - - I mean, we have a lot of 19 family-owned people that have houses. We have 20 second generation, fifth generation owners. I'm 21 a third generation. Our family's had a tavern 22 there for over 36 years on Bartlett. 23 Those people that are coming home from 24 North Avenue don't care if I have to get up at 25 three in the morning, or to go - - if I went to 00080 1 bed at three in the morning. It's people are 2 walking home from other bars. It's not my bar. 3 It may - - It may be my bar. Maybe someone's 4 yelling out coming out of my place. We try to 5 help - - We try to tell people before they come 6 out. We turn the music down at bar time as 7 opposed to jacking it up, because we want people 8 to realize that they're walking into a 9 neighborhood and that they're going to be 10 hopefully respectful of my neighbors. 11 And if they have a problem, I hope they 12 talk to me, and I hope we can settle things 13 before it ever gets this far. And I'll be more 14 than happy to try to be a bridge between those 15 guys, because I like both individuals. I just 16 - - I don't want to see it go, because I think 17 Red Dot has a viable place in our - - in our 18 neighborhood, and it's a good thing for our 19 neighborhood. It's a different price food option 20 than Tess. You know, I don't want to take my kid 21 to McDonald's. I don't like McDonald's foods. 22 And I just wish - - I hope people will listen to 23 everything before they start making judgments and 24 yelling at people. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 00081 1 testimony. Any questions of the committee? Mr. 2 Arena, questions of this witness? 3 MR. ARENA: When you've been to Red 4 Dot, you've taken your children there? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MR. ARENA: Do you know if Red - - Does 7 Red Dot have any beer neons or advertise any 8 drinking in the windows? 9 THE WITNESS: I believe the only sign 10 they have is an "Open" sign. 11 MR. ARENA: Okay. And have you been 12 there late at night? 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, I have been there. 14 Not with my children. But, yes, I've been there 15 after midnight, and I've never noticed a problem. 16 MR. ARENA: And do you hear the noise 17 coming from Red Dot when you're walking to it 18 or - - 19 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. And I also 20 - - I just - - I - - I think this could be 21 settled differently. I think everybody involved 22 has kind of seen what's going on and want to make 23 this - - go - - make this work well for everybody 24 involved. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, we - - we 00082 1 would have preferred that something would have 2 been worked out before today. 3 THE WITNESS: Well, I would have 4 preferred it, too, because I still got to go and 5 open my bar. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: But now we're 7 here, so, thank you for your testimony. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you, gentlemen. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next person to 10 testify, please. 11 MR. ARENA: Thank you. 12 THE WITNESS: I will. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You all - - You 14 all got to start lining up and talk here, because 15 pretty soon I'm going to - - real soon I'm going 16 to call a time limit on this thing, and then it's 17 going to be too late for anybody to say anything. 18 You all - - the next people to testify I want you 19 in the on-deck circle. Get up right away, come 20 to testify. Otherwise, no mas. Name and address 21 for the record, please. 22 THE WITNESS: Tyler Olson. I live at 23 2540 North Bartlett, directly a half block on the 24 same side of the street as - - as The Red Dot. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 00083 1 THE WITNESS: And I - - I would - - I 2 would agree with what Paige said earlier, that, 3 you know, we live in a - - in a college area, and 4 most of the traffic that I see is actually coming 5 from the duplexes directly across the street. I 6 frequent the place. I go there for fish-fries. 7 I go there for taco Tuesdays. I don't see any 8 difference in that establishment from any other 9 establishment that I go to in the area, and, you 10 know, if I would have wanted a quieter 11 neighborhood, I probably would have moved to Tosa 12 or some of the other areas. But definitely don't 13 notice a problem from The Red Dot at all. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Questions of this 15 witness? 16 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay, Alderman. 18 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Sir, are you a 19 property owner or are you - - 20 THE WITNESS: I am. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: You're a property 22 owner? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Do you have children? 25 THE WITNESS: I - - I have one on the 00084 1 way. So, no. 2 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Maybe your testimony 3 might be a little different next year. 4 ALDERMAN BOHL: Maybe you'll move to 5 Tosa next year. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 7 Arena, any questions of this witness? 8 MR. ARENA: No. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Sir? 10 THE WITNESS: Hi. My name is Dimitri 11 Beyer. I live at 4836 North Navajo Avenue in 12 Glendale. I'm the doorman at The Red Dot. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: I just want to say I've 15 worked in Milwaukee as a doorman and a bouncer 16 for 15 years in many, many establishment, and 17 this is by far the most problem free 18 establishment I've ever worked in. 19 Okay. Watching the tape, I could not a 20 single time clearly see someone smoking a pipe. 21 I believe you said that some of the things in the 22 tape you couldn't see very well. I also couldn't 23 see anyone having sex. Whenever the police 24 officers came down to the bar, I asked them very 25 specifically is there anything that I should be 00085 1 aware of? Is there anything I can do to make the 2 place more customer friendly, more law abiding. 3 No police officer, including the liaison officer, 4 has ever mentioned to me the fact that there is 5 patrons outside smoking marijuana. 6 Okay. I'm very active. I move around 7 a lot when I'm working the bar. I can also 8 probably say that there is no underage people in 9 the bar. The bar has never been cited for any 10 underage people in there. I am inside and 11 outside the door all the time whenever I see 12 large groups of people walking in and out. I 13 make sure I walk out with them. I make sure they 14 stay quiet. 15 A lot of the things you saw on the 16 videotape, that's just the east side. That's 17 just the east side. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 19 THE WITNESS: Seriously, at two o'clock 20 in the morning I don't think there's a sober 21 person within a ten block radius. Okay. Cars 22 going by fast, yes, I suppose some of them could 23 be our patrons, but all of them? That a single 24 bar is causing all those problems? Another 25 thing, that particular neighborhood is becoming a 00086 1 really hot area for muggings, purse snatchings, 2 things like that. The bar is actually very good 3 for the neighborhood, because - - You've seen the 4 pictures. The place is like an aquarium. You 5 have a 180 degree view of the street. We can see 6 what's going on down the block, that way, that 7 way, that way. Okay. Anything happening, I got 8 my cell phone with me. I can call the police. I 9 can get involved if, you know, I'm not in danger 10 of getting shot. I don't do that. Okay. 11 And as I've said before, send a cop 12 over. Tell me what they want me to do. Whatever 13 it is that I can comply with, I'm - - I'll be 14 happy to do that. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 16 questions of this witness? Alderman Dudzik. 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: You said you worked 18 at various locations. Where else have you 19 worked? 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I worked at a 21 place called BBC. I worked at a place called 22 Eve. I worked at a place called Dragon Lounge. 23 I worked at a place called Mad Planet. By the 24 way, I'm very good at spotting drug activity in 25 the premises. I have never busted anyone with 00087 1 marijuana in the bar. 2 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And - - And where is 3 Mad Planet exactly? 4 THE WITNESS: Mad Planet is on Center 5 Street, a half a block - - 6 ALDERMAN WADE: East of Holton. 7 THE WITNESS: East - - Excuse me? 8 ALDERMAN WADE: East of Holton Avenue, 9 a half a block east of that. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. It is. 11 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: So is it safe to say 12 that your experiences with being a bouncer are 13 limited to locations in a downtown and/or east 14 side? 15 THE WITNESS: Well, yes. 16 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And this is the best 17 by far, best run place you've ever worked at? 18 THE WITNESS: It is. It is the most 19 problem free environment. And the music, we keep 20 the music purposely low so people can hear each 21 other's conversations. 22 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And - - And 23 your - - 24 THE WITNESS: It's not that kind of 25 bar. 00088 1 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And your testimony 2 was that you can see 180 degrees and you've got 3 your cell phone, and you didn't see - - you never 4 see any of this activity outside this place. 5 THE WITNESS: I have never saw people 6 having sex outside the bar. There have been 7 occasions when I caught people urinating. I 8 don't let them back in the bar ever again. And, 9 you know, they got to move on real quick. 10 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Sir, you - - you spoke 14 about the - - the clarity of the - - of the 15 video, and I agree with you. Some of the things 16 that - - that were played up on the screen 17 weren't totally clear from the video. But the 18 Chair asked the - - the maker of the video if he 19 actually personally witnessed those things, and 20 because he testified that he did witness those 21 things, we can take that as it was actually 22 happening. A lot of it wasn't clear. But one 23 thing that was clear to - - to me, and I think 24 this may relate to your job - - 25 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 00089 1 ALDERMAN WADE: - - is that I did - - I 2 could see those young ladies in the back with 3 actual drinks from the bar outside the bar 4 sitting the bar - - the glasses on the fence and 5 drinking out of the - - I did see that that part 6 was clear in the video. But some of the other 7 things, I agree with you, were - - were kind of 8 cloudy, but I'll take the testimony from the 9 maker of the - - of the video that that is what 10 he saw when he was videotaping. 11 THE WITNESS: If I may address that. 12 ALDERMAN WADE: Well, you got to get 13 permission from the Chair. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 15 THE WITNESS: If I could address that. 16 Again, you have to go back to the fact that 17 there's probably 50 other parties going on on the 18 same block around us. There's a house across the 19 street from The Red Dot, which I point out to 20 officers on several occasions, which has underage 21 parties in there practically every weekend. 22 Okay. If there is people outside with glasses, 23 they could have come from a different party. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: I don't argue that 25 point. I'm just saying I could see that. Out of 00090 1 everything that was one of the things that was 2 pretty clear to me on the videotape. 3 THE WITNESS: And you go to consider 4 the fact that this - - this tape is a compilation 5 of things that happened through how many months? 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 7 THE WITNESS: You stay out with a 8 camera on the east side long enough, you'll catch 9 all kinds of stuff. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 11 questions of this witness, Mr. Arena? 12 MR. ARENA: I have one question. The 13 house that you're talking about, have you ever 14 called the police on that house? 15 THE WITNESS: No, but I've directly 16 walked up to the police officer and told him hey, 17 there's parties going on in there practically 18 every weekend. A lot of the kids that are going 19 in there could not possibly be over 21 years old. 20 MR. ARENA: Did you observe how many 21 people would be going to these parties? Have you 22 ever made that observation? 23 THE WITNESS: You know, when - - when 24 it's warm outside and they all hang out there, 25 smoking cigarettes, because obviously, you know, 00091 1 they can't all smoke inside at the same time. 2 MR. ARENA: Use the microphone. 3 THE WITNESS: I'd say there could be as 4 many as ten or 15 people hanging out on the 5 corner. 6 MR. ARENA: That's outside. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. They don't do it 8 all the time, and they don't do it for long 9 periods of time, you know. They go outside, have 10 a cigarette, go back inside. 11 MR. ARENA: Have you ever seen a fight 12 or violence come out of that location? 13 THE WITNESS: Actually, now that you 14 mention it, I have broken up a couple of fights 15 that had absolutely nothing to do with the bar. 16 I've also done things like picked up overturned 17 garbage cans half a block away from the bar. 18 MR. ARENA: Okay. Nothing further. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you for your 20 testimony. Next person to testify, please. 21 THE WITNESS: My name is John 22 Sekutowski. S-E-K-U-T-O-W-S-K-I. I'm the 23 current bar manager. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Address? 25 THE WITNESS: Oh, 611 East Russell 00092 1 Avenue in Bay View. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And your 3 testimony, sir? 4 THE WITNESS: This - - As far as the 5 video is concerned, most of that stuff is from 6 one night, one actual party, as far as I can 7 tell. I do not actually believe - - I don't 8 think that Dimitri was working that day. It was 9 a very impromptu thing. People showed up. They 10 wanted to use the patio, and that's what it was. 11 I will say that we were probably understaffed 12 that particular day. 13 For the most part, we actually keep an 14 eye on the neighborhood. As Dimitri said, we 15 have full view on the north side of the building 16 and most of the east side of the building. Where 17 their house is, that is a blind spot for us, and 18 Dimitri does go outside and he does check on 19 that. I did not know that the music was that 20 loud in their backyard from the patio. That has 21 never been brought to my attention. Certain 22 things that are happening if we don't know about, 23 and we can't catch everything, if we don't know 24 about, we can't competently address it. 25 Things are getting a little better, but 00093 1 they can be even more better. Not a word but - - 2 They can get better than that. It's just we need 3 to sit down and discuss it and come up with a, 4 you know, a solution. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 6 questions by members of the committee? Mr. 7 Arena? 8 MR. ARENA: The night that the citation 9 was issued and you - - you took it from the 10 police officer. 11 THE WITNESS: I accepted it on behalf 12 of my bartender. 13 MR. ARENA: Were you in the bar the 14 night for the time that he issued the citation? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. ARENA: Were you aware of how loud 17 it was? Could you describe that to the 18 committee? 19 THE WITNESS: The music would not have 20 been able to be heard outside of the bar by any 21 means. The night that this citation was for was 22 lower, if not the same. And I believe Officer 23 Markowski was his name, that issued the ticket, 24 testified to the fact on Thursday previous at our 25 hearing, that the music was acceptable to him 00094 1 when he issued the ticket. And I contend that 2 the noise level was lower or the same that 3 Monday. Also, the days leading up to getting 4 that ticket there were calls not at night, but 5 during the morning. I had talked to the 6 gentleman, next door neighbor, one p.m. 7 approximately, about the music. Nothing else 8 afterwards. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 10 MR. ARENA: How many times have you 11 directly talked to the Kinis family, either Ty or 12 Terry? 13 THE WITNESS: Twice. One was dealing 14 with that music, and another time was dealing 15 with something totally unrelated to our bar, but 16 I had asked him about the music and to describe 17 the nature of it, so that if it was bass heavy, 18 we'll turn the bass down. If it was high volume, 19 high pitch, where you can actually hear the 20 music, well then you turn the whole volume down. 21 It's diff - - Sounds are different. 22 MR. ARENA: Can you give us a date on 23 those instances for the record? 24 THE WITNESS: The 20 - - The Sunday of 25 the 27th - - or, I'm sorry, the 26th. The 27th 00095 1 was the day that the ticket was for. 28th was 2 when it was issued. The 26th was when I talked 3 to him about the - - the nature of it, when he 4 called at the bar. The nature of the music. And 5 it was kind of vague, so I just turned down 6 pretty much everything that we could in the 7 place. 8 MR. ARENA: To your knowledge, has 9 Martin made changes to make it quieter? 10 THE WITNESS: Constantly changes, yes. 11 We installed six sound panels. I believe that 12 the height of the ceiling was an issue earlier. 13 There are six sound panels now that are basically 14 there to deaden sound as much as that could do. 15 Two speakers were removed. The patio noise right 16 there, we are in the process, barring anything 17 else, of putting some insulation with another 18 wall on that particular patio wall. There is 19 nothing there right now. That, we didn't really 20 utilize the patio too much last year, so before 21 we use it this year, that's going to be 22 addressed. But, again, I did not realize that 23 the sound was penetrating to that extent into 24 their backyard. 25 Again, most of the sound issues on that 00096 1 video come from one particular night. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Thank 3 you for your testimony. Next witness, please. 4 THE WITNESS: My name's William Crouse. 5 I live at 2497 North Cramer Street, about a block 6 and a half away. 7 I have two things I want to say about 8 The Red Dot, Marty's establishment. First off, I 9 have two stepchildren, ages ten and three, who I 10 have brought into the restaurant on a handful of 11 occasions, to the point where the three year old 12 continually asks me to go back to The Red Dot. 13 The - - The staff at the bar - - or restaurant 14 have treated my family real well, and I've got no 15 problems ever bringing them back there. I think 16 they're a great thing for the - - for the 17 community and for the neighborhood. 18 Second off, being a patron close to the 19 area, or being a resident close to the area, I do 20 hear noise at night. It's an east side 21 neighborhood. That's a given, as other people 22 have said. But being a block and a half away 23 from their establishment, and three - - a little 24 over three blocks away from the North Avenue 25 district, the majority of the sound that I hear 00097 1 at night is coming from the North Avenue 2 district. Whether it be people coming home from 3 bars, people coming home from house parties or 4 whatnot, the majority of the - - the noise I hear 5 is from my south, not from my west. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 7 Questions of this witness? Next person to 8 testify, please. 9 THE WITNESS: My name is Andrew Ingle, 10 I-N-G-L-E. I live at 2457 North Oakland Avenue. 11 Prior to the - - 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far - - How 13 far away is that from the establishment? 14 THE WITNESS: About half a block. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Half a block. 16 THE WITNESS: Prior to that I was a 17 resident above The Red Dot. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 19 THE WITNESS: And I'm currently 20 employed there. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. When I 22 lived at The Red Dot, it's obvious you're above a 23 bar. You do hear the gaggle of voices. 24 Occasionally you do hear some voices outside, 25 especially in the summer. Never was it an issue 00098 1 where I felt that anything had to be done about 2 it. It's just common conversation that happens 3 leaving a bar on any given night, any given bar. 4 Also, I'd like to add that I have been an 5 employee at The Red Dot for a year and a half, 6 and as far as the opposition saying that they 7 have had conversations with the staff, until this 8 day I have never seen the opposition with my own 9 eyes. I've never talked to them. I've never 10 gotten a phone call. I bartend there. I 11 actually bartended on the night in question where 12 we got a citation. No phone call. No - - No 13 sort of communication was issued. I didn't know 14 about it until the very next day when a police 15 officer came in, said that we're getting a noise 16 violation. So as far as their saying that they 17 - - they tried to communication with the staff, 18 I, in my year and a half there, have not seen it. 19 And also I'd like to say something on 20 our clientele that comes to the bar. While we do 21 have a certain amount of college clientele, we 22 pride ourselves on having a lot of neighborhood 23 customers, a lot of people that come to our bar 24 within walking distance, and a lot of that is 25 because they feel safe coming there. Dimitri 00099 1 mentioned we've had a rash of muggings up and 2 down Bartlett Avenue. We've had people come into 3 our bar, ask for assistance, because they have 4 just been attacked. And to my knowledge, there 5 has never been one customer of The Red Dot ever 6 involved in a scrap with police anywhere near our 7 building. We've never had the police called for 8 any sort of violence issue. I've never even had 9 so much as to break up a verbal confrontation at 10 that bar. Our clientele are all working people, 11 a lot of service industry people, and again, they 12 live in the neighborhood. And it's where they go 13 because they know they're not going to get beat 14 up outside the bar, and we pride ourselves on 15 eliminating any sort of - - any sort of people 16 that - - that cause problems. And so, we work 17 hard on that. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions of 19 this witness? Next witness, please. I - - I 20 know all of you supporters are going to say some 21 nice things about the place, and I understand 22 that, just don't give me the whole bouquet. Just 23 speak to the facts that are relative to this 24 notice. I mean, otherwise, we're all going to be 25 here until midnight in this, and we have a long 00100 1 agenda to finish today. Okay. So just stick to 2 the facts. I don't want to negate anybody's 3 testimony, but just forget the flowers and roses. 4 Just stick to the testimony of the - - the facts. 5 Name and address, please. 6 THE WITNESS: Jessica Daniel at 1705 7 Bradford, which is above The Red Dot. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Are you 9 also an employee, Jessica? 10 THE WITNESS: No. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And your 12 testimony? 13 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm a renter from 14 Martin, and I am right over the kitchen, which 15 means I am right next to over the beer garden. 16 And I really don't have noise issues. I know 17 before I moved in he blew insulation in between 18 the two floors. So maybe that has a lot to do 19 with it. I'm not really sure. I don't know how 20 sound works, but I don't have a problem with the 21 kitchen. I don't hear dishes, silverware, all 22 that. And as for the bar, it's on the other 23 side. So I don't hear all the, you know, 24 conversations or anything. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Jessica, I don't 00101 1 want to know where, but do you have a day job? 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So you get up at 4 what time to go to work? 5 THE WITNESS: Oh, it changes. It 6 varies. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It varies. I 8 mean, do you ever have to get up like at six, 9 seven o'clock in the morning? 10 THE WITNESS: Sure, yeah. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, you do. Okay. 12 THE WITNESS: And also, just about 13 around the trash cans and stuff like that, that 14 they had drug use and alcohol consumption and 15 stuff like that. I take my dog out at least 16 three or four times a day, and I always take him 17 back there, because if there's other dogs on 18 Bradford, he'll - - he's just a hyena. He'll 19 just like go for him. So I have to go kind of 20 behind the trash cans where it's more private. 21 I've never seen drug use. I've never seen people 22 drinking, and I've lived there since last July. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And what time of 24 day do you go back there? 25 THE WITNESS: Usually - - To let my dog 00102 1 out? 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yeah. 3 THE WITNESS: Yeah, usually around like 4 four or five, and then again, before I go to bed 5 around ten, 11, 12. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Any other 7 - - Any questions by members of the committee? 8 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 10 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I just want to be 11 clear about this beer garden situation, ma'am. 12 You live above the place, and you've never heard 13 the beer garden? 14 THE WITNESS: Well, I - - I hear the 15 beer garden when my windows are open, but not 16 when they're closed. But you can hear everything 17 when the windows are open. It's just street. 18 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: You did see the - - 19 the video. 20 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: And - - And that's 22 - - Well, you're a little younger than I am, and 23 perhaps not as old as the - - the neighbors, but 24 that doesn't seem to bother you? That type of 25 noise? 00103 1 THE WITNESS: No. I've been an 2 eastsider for nine years. I used to live over 3 closer to Brady, and actually, this neighborhood 4 is quieter than the one I came from. 5 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. 6 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 8 person to testify, please. 9 THE WITNESS: My name is Iskra 10 Stychiva, I-S-K-R-A, S-T-O-Y-C-H-E-V-A. I live 11 at 2497 North Bartlett. That's above Tess, right 12 across the street from Red Dot. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: I've lived there since 15 April of last year. All of last summer, up until 16 the end of August, we had no air-conditioning, so 17 our windows were constantly open. I've never had 18 a problem with the noise. Most days of the week 19 I'm up between - - anytime between 4:30 and six 20 in the morning, because I do work. I'm usually 21 back between five and seven. I've never had a 22 problem with - - I've never seen of this drug use 23 that's going on. 24 The house that was mentioned earlier by 25 Dimitri, I think, the house on the other corner, 00104 1 I've had problems with them. My boyfriend and I 2 have actually approached them once, because 3 they're loud. I've seen the same 15 people, you 4 know, being out there smoking cigarettes, 5 drinking their beer. They leave their bottles 6 lying around. Also, the other thing that was 7 mentioned that I would like to reiterate is the 8 fact that I feel safer with Red Dot there. I 9 always have to park around the corner. With the 10 increased, the muggings and things that have been 11 going on in our neighborhood, and I come home 12 sometimes at 11:30 or 12, I wouldn't feel safe 13 - - safe if that corner was deserted, if it was 14 just residency. I know that the people at Red 15 Dot know me, and I know that if - - if they saw 16 anything happen to me, they would - - they would 17 be right on it. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 19 Questions of this witness? Thank you for your 20 testimony. Next person to testify. 21 THE WITNESS: My name is Nathaniel 22 Newborough. I live at 1706 East Thomas, which is 23 about 40 yards or so away from the Red Dot, and I 24 have also - - 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: About 40 yards, 00105 1 you say? 2 THE WITNESS: About 40 yards or so. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 4 THE WITNESS: And I'm also employed by 5 Martin. As to the amount of drunk people in the 6 area, I mean, it's North Avenue. I live between 7 The Red Dot and North Avenue. I get the same 8 amount of people walking past my place that are 9 headed north going through all these people's 10 neighborhoods. It's the same everywhere. You 11 can't get around it. And as to the point where 12 that when Marty not caring about his drunken 13 patrons, I've seen him stone sober working, take 14 a guy's keys and drive him home on multiple 15 occasions, and take a taxi back from the patron's 16 house at his own expense. And this is - - As to 17 the people approach - - approaching employees, I 18 have had one phone call from them. At the time 19 of the phone call I did turn the stereo down, and 20 other than that, this is the first time that I've 21 seen them. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 23 questions of this witness? Thank you for 24 testimony. 25 MR. ARENA: I have - - 00106 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, go ahead, Mr. 2 Arena. 3 MR. ARENA: How long have you lived in 4 the neighborhood? 5 THE WITNESS: I lived on that same 6 block for five years. I used to live - - When 7 The Red Dot first opened, I used to live directly 8 behind it. And I never had a problem with them 9 there. About eight months after it opened, I 10 moved just half a block down, and I've never had 11 a problem there. 12 MR. ARENA: How old are you? 13 THE WITNESS: 26. 14 MR. ARENA: Are you a student at UWM? 15 THE WITNESS: I'm 27, it's 2007. No. 16 I am not currently a college student. 17 MR. ARENA: Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 19 witness, please. 20 THE WITNESS: My name is Thomas Mills, 21 M-I-L-L-S. I live on the corner of Cramer on 22 Bradford, 2497. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far away is 24 that from the bar? 25 THE WITNESS: About a block away, block 00107 1 and a half. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Your 3 testimony, please. 4 THE WITNESS: I'm a bar - - bartender, 5 bar manager at Champions Pub, which is on - - on 6 the opposite corner. I've had actually both our 7 establishments described as playing the best 8 music that you can almost not hear. You have to 9 - - The level is low enough where you can speak 10 over it. I think perhaps the noise problem is 11 not so much the music, but people's voices, from 12 what I saw on the - - on the videotape. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 14 THE WITNESS: It was not music. It was 15 voices. We have the same problem inasfar as 16 voice levels go up, go down, people speaking over 17 - - over the football game, over the music. 18 There's really nothing you can do as far as 19 controlling people's voices. I'm - - I'm also 20 one of the people who was pistol-whipped and 21 robbed on Bartlett Avenue around two o'clock. I 22 guarantee the people who robbed me weren't old 23 enough to be in The Red Dot. So that - - I don't 24 see that as - - as - - as a problem. 25 Also, as everyone else has said, it is 00108 1 the east side. It is we are near North Avenue. 2 A lot of the noise - - I've lived on - - in that 3 area for the last 14 years. It's just the area. 4 It's North Avenue. It's you're between North 5 Avenue and UWM. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 7 Questions of this witness? Thank you. 8 MR. ARENA: Yes, I have a question. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. One. 10 MR. ARENA: When you walk home, do you 11 go by The Red Dot? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 13 MR. ARENA: You walk in that direction. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, every night. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. Do you 16 have a follow-up question to that? 17 MR. ARENA: No. In deference to 18 respect to the Chairman, I will not ask a 19 question anymore. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next witness, 21 please. If it's pertinent to proving the case in 22 one direction or another, I'm interested in 23 hearing it. 24 THE WITNESS: My name is Mike Rebers, 25 R-E-B-E-R-S. I live at 1625 East Webster, which 00109 1 is a block away from The Red Dot. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 3 THE WITNESS: I've lived there for the 4 last five years, and I'm a ten year veteran of 5 the service industry, actually manage a bar up on 6 Humboldt and Locust, Tracks. To the first part, 7 these guys have run the best bar I've seen in a 8 while. They're always conscientious. They're 9 always courteous. They treat every regular and 10 every neighborhood person with respect and the 11 dignity they should be. They try to work with 12 everybody, and I've never had a problem with 13 them. They've always helped out. 14 And as a resident of the neighborhood, 15 I can safely say that a lot of the problems we've 16 been having are not due to the bar, but due to 17 the fact there's a lot of - - a lot of house 18 parties on that block. In the last two years, an 19 inordinate amount of underagers have been moving 20 in, and there have been several cases where 21 police have come two or three times to some of 22 these houses and breaking up these small house 23 parties. This, I think, is where this noise is 24 coming from, not The Red Dot. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 00110 1 questions of this witness. No. Mr. Arena? 2 MR. ARENA: No. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 4 person to testify, please. 5 THE WITNESS: My name is Matthew 6 Anderson. 2497 Oakland. In the video where you 7 see people - - 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far away are 9 you from the bar? 10 THE WITNESS: That's - - In the video 11 you see it. I'm - - That's the entrance to my 12 building, where you see the people standing. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: That's not a common 15 occurrence. And most of these people who are 16 coming are coming from North Avenue, because that 17 alley connects right outside where all the bars 18 start lining up. You can walk directly to North 19 Avenue right through there. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: When you call 21 "your building," do you live there, though, also? 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Or do you just own 24 the building? 25 THE WITNESS: No. I don't own the 00111 1 building. I live there. That's - - 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You live there. 3 THE WITNESS: That's the entrance right 4 there where you see the garbage cans. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 6 THE WITNESS: And it's - - It's just 7 never been a problem. It's an area where there's 8 a lot of activity. I don't - - All these people 9 are here to support Marty and this bar and 10 restaurant because everybody loves it. It's a 11 great asset to our community. Everyone spends 12 time there. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I mean, what about 14 the people next door? Is it possible that 15 they're - - I mean, you saw the - - You saw the 16 videotape or the - - or this - - the disk. What 17 do you think? 18 THE WITNESS: I've - - I've never 19 experienced a problem with it. I - - I did 20 notice in the videotape, you can hear crickets 21 just as loud as you can hear people's voices. I 22 don't - - It's - - It's part of the area. I get 23 woken up sometimes from people walking in all 24 different directions, and the least of my problem 25 is with The Red Dot. 00112 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 2 questions of this witness? No. Mr. Arena? 3 MR. ARENA: No. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 5 Next person to testify? 6 THE WITNESS: Hello. My name is Craig 7 Ulezelski. I live at 2515 North Oakland, which 8 is within a half block of The Red Dot. And I 9 really have enjoyed having The Red Dot in the - - 10 the community. And I enjoy going there, because 11 it's not North Avenue with a lot of the stuff 12 that seems to be flying back towards us, you 13 know, in the community. And definitely that blue 14 house on the corner is quite a problem, and I 15 could see where some neighbor might have a 16 problem with the house, considering that every 17 year it's a new group of underagers doing the 18 same activity, often on their own corner with 19 their cell phones and their beers all over the 20 place, so, basically. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 22 questions of this witness? 23 MR. ARENA: No. 24 THE WITNESS: And I have lived in the 25 neighborhood for about ten years. 00113 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 2 person to testify, please. 3 THE WITNESS: My name is Jean Salmon, 4 S-A-L-M-O-N. I live at 1905 East Jarvis Street 5 in Shorewood. And as you can hear, I have a very 6 raspy voice, and my voice does not resonate very 7 well. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How far away from 9 the bar do you live? 10 THE WITNESS: About, it's maybe like a 11 mile. And I'd like you to know that the reason 12 that I go to The Red Dot is because my voice does 13 not carry very far, and I frequently lose my 14 voice in bars. And the reason that I go there is 15 because the music is quiet enough that I can have 16 conversations with the people that I'm talking 17 to. And that is why I go there, because it is 18 not a loud thing, and I've seen what was shown in 19 the videos, maybe once, and that was a very 20 specific night. And a lot of the traffic that 21 goes through there is definitely from the houses 22 across the street on the block north of The Red 23 Dot, and so I'd just like that to be known, that 24 the reason that I go there is because it is so 25 quiet that I do not lose my voice. 00114 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 2 questions of this witness? No. Mr. Arena? 3 MR. ARENA: When you go there, how do 4 you get there? 5 THE WITNESS: Either take a cab, bus, 6 or occasionally drive. 7 MR. ARENA: Okay. Thank you. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next person to 10 testify. Please be brief. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, Alderman Wade. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Miss - - 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hold on. 15 ALDERMAN WADE: Just - - Just want to 16 ask you a question. 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: It's a - - a large 19 amount of people here in support of The Red Dot, 20 and did you - - you - - you live far enough away 21 where you would not have received something in 22 writing from the City. 23 THE WITNESS: Correct. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: What made you come - - 25 What made you come to this hearing to testify? 00115 1 THE WITNESS: I came in support of 2 Marty. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: So he spoke with you 4 about what was going on - - 5 THE WITNESS: When I heard about what 6 happened, I decided to come and show my support. 7 ALDERMAN WADE: You decided to come and 8 - - and show support. 9 THE WITNESS: It's a great local bar 10 and restaurant, and it's definitely, in my 11 opinion, added to the general neighborhood, 12 considering if you compare it to the bars that 13 are on North Avenue. I mean, really, it's 14 just - - 15 ALDERMAN WADE: Now, did you have to 16 amend your - - your regular schedule to be here? 17 I mean, do you have a job or classes or some 18 other activity you're supposed to be doing at 19 this time? 20 THE WITNESS: I work second shift. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. All right. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Next 24 person to testify, please. 25 THE WITNESS: My name is Laura - - 00116 1 Laura Gorzek, G-O-R-Z-E-K. And I live a block 2 away from Red Dot at 2578 North Bartlett. And 3 I've lived on that block for four years, and I'm 4 scared to leave the block after dark, because I 5 was robbed at gunpoint twice last summer. And 6 it's the only place I go. And there are a lot of 7 rowdy people on the street, and I'm a very 8 fearful person, but the - - there's - - there's a 9 community that goes there on a regular basis that 10 will always walk me home, like the bartenders 11 will walk - - like if they're off shift, they'll 12 walk me home to make sure I get home safe. And I 13 don't want to lose that in my community, because 14 I am just scared of the way Milwaukee is getting 15 more crime and - - I'll keep it short. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 17 questions of this witness? Next person, please. 18 THE WITNESS: Brian Zarling. I live at 19 1625 East Webster Place. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How close? 21 THE WITNESS: A block north of Red Dot. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: One block north. 23 THE WITNESS: I'd like to say that our 24 neighborhood is quiet for an eastside neighbor, 25 but it is an eastside neighborhood over The Red 00117 1 Dot, because it is not a normal bar like on North 2 - - 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Speak into the 4 microphone. 5 THE WITNESS: Sorry. We go there 6 because it is a quieter bar. It is not a North 7 Avenue bar, which is loud and music. It is a 8 quieter bar. We can sit and have a nice chilled 9 drink, and we usually go home - - we usually keep 10 the streets nice and safe, because it is our 11 neighborhood. We live in a neighborhood of two 12 dead ends, and I live on Webster, dead end, and 13 Bartlett's a dead end. It's nice and quiet. We 14 do get some run-off traffic from Oakland and 15 North Avenue. It's understandable that a lot of 16 the loudness does come from there. Now, the 17 white house across the street north of Red Dot is 18 known as a party house there. I can see a lot 19 - - You can go there during summer, once a week 20 there's probably something going on. People 21 littering, being loud, being, you know, 22 eastsiders. A lot of the problems does not come 23 from The Red Dot, though, I feel. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 25 questions of this witness? Next person to 00118 1 testify, please. 2 THE WITNESS: Hello. My name is 3 William Ramos, R-A-M-O-S. I live at 1609 East 4 Webster Place. It's a block north of The Red 5 Dot, and I've lived there for five years now, and 6 honestly, since The Red Dot has opened, I have 7 not noticed any increase in any of the noise or 8 foot traffic coming through the neighborhood. 9 It's always been the same. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 11 questions of this witness? Next person to 12 testify, please. 13 THE WITNESS: Hello, I'm Theodore 14 Dulany, D-U-L-A-N-Y. I began frequenting The Red 15 Dot - - 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Your address. 17 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 2568 North Bremen 18 Street. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How close? 20 THE WITNESS: That is over the river, 21 about three-quarters of a mile. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Testimony. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. Within the past two 24 months I've begun to frequent The Red Dot because 25 of my friends that go there, my community, my 00119 1 family. I have noticed, also, that living were I 2 do in Riverwest, when - - living next to the 3 Bremen Cafe' which is open until two in the 4 morning, there is a decrease in illegal activity. 5 I have been woken up by muggings in front of my 6 street, three - four a.m. when there is nobody 7 around, when there is no one to keep them safe. 8 The open 180 degree view which was expressed by 9 Dimitri is good for the area. And I have also 10 been reminded on several occasions, every time I 11 leave to please watch my volume by staff and 12 regulars. Thank you. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Have you seen any - - 17 Have you seen any illegal activity that's been 18 expressed here today? 19 THE WITNESS: No, sir. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Never? 21 THE WITNESS: No, sir. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next person to 24 testify, please? 25 THE WITNESS: My name is Mike 00120 1 McConnell. M-C-C-O-N-N-E-L-L. I live at 1625 2 East Webster. I've actually been going to The 3 Red Dot since it's opened. And Marty's always 4 been very respectful of the noise. There was 5 actually a time when one of the tenants from 6 upstairs came down and said it was a little loud, 7 so he turned down the music and asked everyone to 8 lower their voices. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: You live one block 10 away. Right? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. Sorry. And then, 12 as far as the vandalism was concerned. I know 13 that was a concern raised. That's an issue from 14 one end of Bartlett to the other, because, you 15 know, on one end is the bar and the other end is 16 the dead end. And there's frequently windows 17 smashed out of cars up and down that street. So 18 it's been a regular problem since before the bar 19 was there. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Okay. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Have you seen any 24 illegal activity, marijuana smoking, people 25 taking drinks out of the bar? 00121 1 THE WITNESS: No, not at all. More of 2 the problems are the house parties. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. Next 5 person to testify. 6 THE WITNESS: My name is Scott Olson, 7 O-L-S-O-N. And I live at 2944 North Cambridge. 8 It's about four blocks away. And I work in the 9 kitchen. And I just wanted to say that I know 10 the neighbors were saying that there was noise in 11 the kitchen, six, seven months ago, and just that 12 Marty has done a lot to make sure that at least 13 from that part, which, you know, I'm not in the 14 front of the house very often, except when I'm 15 off work. But when there was noise issues, that 16 Marty was definitely pro-active about getting 17 that taken care of, and that I know he is working 18 on the front of the house and the patio, and 19 getting that, too. And that you would just see 20 that as the kitchen issue has been resolved, that 21 is one issue that has been resolved, and that he 22 is being pro-active in getting the other noise 23 issues resolved. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Okay. 25 That closes the public testimony for this. I'd 00122 1 like to hear Mr. Arena give us a closing 2 statement. Then I'd like to hear from Alderman 3 D'Amato, and then we're going to rule on this 4 matter. 5 MR. ARENA: Would you like to go first 6 or would you like me to go first? 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: He'll go. Does it 8 matter to you? 9 ALDERMAN D'AMATO: Is that the proper 10 order here? 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It doesn't matter 12 to me. Go ahead. 13 ALDERMAN D'AMATO: Mister - - Mr. 14 Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for 15 your patience. Thank you for taking the time to 16 hear everyone who appeared on this matter. I 17 think, as I told you when this hearing opened, 18 that this is a difficult situation, because you 19 have a place that is - - Everybody who spoke here 20 on behalf of the neighborhood is telling you the 21 truth. You have a place that is both a 22 neighborhood asset that people love to go to, and 23 a place that has some issues. I don't know that 24 you can explain away the videotape that you saw. 25 Obviously, there was an issue there. It may have 00123 1 been one date, but there have been noise problems 2 ongoing that have been reported to my office from 3 the Kinis who have a unique situation here being 4 next door. 5 But I think that Ms. Schmitt put it 6 best when she said I hope we can find another 7 solution that doesn't take their license away. 8 What we have here is a place that I don't think 9 anyone wants to close down. They - - This is - - 10 This is everybody would like to have an operation 11 here that is available to the neighborhood, but 12 they don't want the problems associated with it. 13 And so I would hope that as you convene 14 and discuss this, you keep some progressive 15 discipline in mind and that you allow the 16 neighbors and Mr. Beaudoin to try to work out 17 some of the solutions that I think Mr. Arena will 18 offer. I would say that - - that they fall into 19 three different categories. Limiting the hours 20 on the patio, which this committee can do as part 21 of the plan of operation. Soundproofing the 22 south wall, which I think you'll hear more about. 23 And having a policy with regard to their bouncer, 24 doorman, doing more than just standing at the 25 door, but going up and down the block and making 00124 1 sure that, especially after ten, 11 o'clock, that 2 they are doing more than just watching the door, 3 but they are actually policing the area up and 4 down the block. We've done that with other 5 taverns, Judges comes to mind, where it has been 6 effective. 7 But - - But, again, keep in mind that 8 you have neighbors who like each other. These 9 are friends who have differing opinions on this, 10 and that hopefully the neighborhood can work this 11 out in a way that continues to keep the asset 12 there without - - without any of the problems. 13 Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 15 Alderman. Mr. Arena? 16 MR. ARENA: Thank you. I'm going to be 17 brief, because I am actually going to ask Martin 18 to address some of the change that he has made. 19 I do want to point out that there are 12 to 13 20 employees here. There's been a large investment 21 made by Marty, and luckily his mother was able to 22 help out with that. It's over 150,000 dollars. 23 Everything was brought up to code in the kitchen. 24 The sewer had to be brought up to code, had to be 25 enlarged, and it was all done with great expense. 00125 1 I'm sure the members of this committee are aware 2 of what you get into when those issues arise. 3 The capacity inside is 99 persons. 4 Outside is 61 persons. I have been there on two 5 occasions. Everybody that I saw that came on my 6 first occasion there did eat food. I believe the 7 business in food is on the increase. More people 8 are eating there, and obviously, the purpose, the 9 main purpose for the patio with Marty is to 10 increase the amount of food that the kitchen can 11 pump out. So if there's going to be an issue of 12 noise out there and the kitchen's closed, that's 13 going to have to be an issue that he addresses by 14 closing it. He is going to soundproof that side 15 wall that would be along the fence of the Kinis' 16 home, along their backyard. There will be 17 additional soundproofing around the other side. 18 And if that is a solution that doesn't work, then 19 a different tack will be taken. 20 I do want to point out, and I've been 21 before this committee enough to know, and - - and 22 I agree that what some of that what we've seen in 23 the video is unacceptable. And I've spoke to 24 Marty about it before. I've seen these videos 25 before with different establishments. And he is 00126 1 in agreement with me and my suggestion to him, 2 that more people have to be hired to be outside 3 and police, and make sure people don't leave with 4 drinks. Make sure people don't congregate. Make 5 sure people don't touch anybody else's property. 6 That their purpose is to leave and that's it, 7 just leave. If he puts people out there, the 8 traffic from North Avenue may be stopped 9 completely. If people know that if they're 10 walking by The Red Dot, The Red Dot staff is 11 going to get involved and engage in what they may 12 see as harassment, but please be quiet, move 13 along or we'll call the police. Please be quiet. 14 Don't do that. People will not travel through 15 that area anymore. I think it could have an 16 effect. 17 In regards to the music that is heard. 18 Now, when I've been there, you can have a simple 19 conversation with the person next to you. I was 20 there until midnight two Fridays ago. I walked 21 around outside. I stood in front of the Kinis 22 home. I could not hear music from within. I 23 have worked with other establishments, though, 24 where sometimes music does travel by an 25 underground conduit. I can name a place. I went 00127 1 in the lady's house. We heard it. We hired a 2 sound engineer, and we solved the problem. And 3 that was - - She lived next to a place that had 4 live music and a lot of Reggae music which is 5 heavy bass driven. 6 I don't think that's the issue here. 7 Marty has cut down the number of speakers to two. 8 The size of those speakers are bookshelf size. 9 Additionally, he's going to take a further step. 10 Now he's only going to play the music through the 11 satellite on the television, which will be down 12 to one speaker out of a TV. If that continues to 13 be an issue, it would amaze me. 14 But going further then, we are going to 15 look at and explore, and I have people to contact 16 that are sound people in the business, we will 17 soundproof that wall that is along the Kinis 18 property, the whole distance to the back of their 19 home and then the patio will be soundproofed. 20 There are techniques that do work. They've been 21 employed at State Fair, Summerfest, the way you 22 build a stage and the material you use in the 23 back wall can cause it to be completely 24 soundproof on the other side of that wall. If 25 there is further noise and we discover there is a 00128 1 conduit that can be addressed, I've worked with 2 establishments and we've been successful in doing 3 that. 4 What - - What I would say that I - - I 5 see here in a lot of ways is things do take off 6 quickly, and Marty probably hasn't been perfect. 7 He hasn't been on top of some of these issues. I 8 think the videotape is enlightening, and I will 9 point out that he's never seen that before. Most 10 of those issues that he's been made aware of have 11 really been about the noise and the music. But 12 obviously what is in the videotape is troubling 13 to me. It's troubling to him, and he's going to 14 change it. And that means, in my estimation, 15 that he's going to have to be there late at night 16 more often and get it under control. 17 The noise, he can get under control. 18 We've written a letter to the Alderman, and we've 19 submitted that we will do the sound wall, and 20 I've expressed to the Alderman that I will stay 21 involved, and I will assist him in meeting these 22 issues. And - - And I've done it before with 23 other places, so I'm not afraid to be involved. 24 And I'm going to let Marty address the - - some 25 of the history with what he's done with this 00129 1 noise stuff. 2 THE APPLICANT: As - - As was said, is 3 that when I did first purchase the place, there 4 was extensive renovations that needed to take 5 place. We tackled them in two stages. One was 6 to renovate the - - the - - the dining area and 7 get the bar open to start generating some - - 8 some cash that was needed to start paying off the 9 bank loans. It did take us seven months before 10 we were able to actually get everything done with 11 the kitchen. Once that finally was done, then - 12 - then we - - we started to focus on food, which 13 is our - - which was our initial plan to begin 14 with. Food sales have gone up and up and up. 15 And every - - And also, increased traffic to the 16 neighborhood has gone up. We have taken steps, 17 when there's been a specific issue addressed, we 18 have taken steps, and I'm willing to take more. 19 I did - - I did not come in here to wreck 20 anybody's neighborhood, to keep anybody up late 21 at night, and we have been working to take the 22 steps. 23 Once again, steps were said. The 24 music's too loud. We took out some speakers. We 25 installed the ceiling tiles, and we're - - we're 00130 1 still focussing more and more on that. I would 2 love to not have to be open until two in the 3 morning and be able to close at 11 o'clock. Food 4 sales continue that way, I do not have a problem 5 doing that. As - - As it is, as it goes right 6 now, in order for me to make my loan payments, I 7 do have to stay open past 11. I'm sorry. That's 8 just the way it is. And we are taking steps to 9 control the noise at the later times. I can put 10 on more staff on certain nights, and - - and 11 controlling and even closing the patio for 12 certain times is - - is not a problem. I - - I'm 13 - - I'm willing to work with the Kinis. I've 14 spoken with the Alderman. We've - - Me and 15 Alderman tried to set up a meeting with the Kinis 16 that was not ever - - ever arranged. I'm open to 17 go into there, to see what - - and see what they 18 see. And, yes, I, you know, I can attest that, 19 you know, the videotape was troubling, and 20 something that, you know, we definitely need to 21 work on. I don't know what else to say. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sir, the white car 25 that was described as yours? 00131 1 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Are you the only one 3 who drives it? 4 THE APPLICANT: I'm the only one that's 5 there. If that car is there, I am there. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. I see you're 7 married. 8 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So your wife doesn't 10 drive the car. 11 THE APPLICANT: She does not. She has 12 her own car. She has a nice car. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. Thank 14 you. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: This matter - - 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: Before we go into 19 committee, I do want to ask a couple of questions 20 of the owner. You know, it's been a lot said 21 this afternoon. I'm quite sure that that video 22 wasn't the most pleasant part of your day. 23 THE APPLICANT: No. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: But from what I gather 25 from looking at the video and from listening to 00132 1 the testimony, both pro and con, it seems to me 2 that the biggest issue here is the beer garden. 3 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 4 ALDERMAN WADE: And you - - You 5 expressed the willingness to - - to deal with the 6 beer garden. Are you willing to get rid of the 7 beer garden? Are you willing to go that far, 8 because I'm going to be honest with you, from 9 what I heard from the neighbors next door, the 10 way it's affecting their quality of life, the 11 noises and the sounds and the vulgarity that's 12 coming from the beer garden that's penetrating 13 over into - - to their backyard to the lives of 14 their young children, that's disturbing to me. 15 And I don't know if I want to sacrifice their 16 quality of life for - - for the young people in 17 order for you to make a buck. I don't really 18 know if I want to go that far. 19 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 20 ALDERMAN WADE: So my question to you 21 is if you're willing to get rid of the beer 22 garden. I mean, I don't - - The other things 23 that's going on outside, I think that's something 24 that you may be able to address with extra staff, 25 some cameras and some other things. But the - - 00133 1 But the loudness of the beer garden, the 2 vulgarity of the beer garden, and the way it's 3 intruding into their quality of life, I have a 4 serious problem with that. And I - - I really 5 don't know if I want to make that exchange in 6 order for you to - - to make money. So I'm just 7 asking you what can you stomach? 8 THE APPLICANT: Well, I - - First of 9 all, I want to be given an opportunity - - the 10 opportunity to complete the renovations that I 11 have for this summer for the beer garden. You - 12 - I - - You have to keep in mind that this is an 13 actual new business. Last year was our first 14 summer in business. So it was - - It was a 15 definite learning experience. I have three 16 garage doors that are - - that are ordered that 17 are ready to be installed, that will come down 18 and close the south end of the beer garden. The 19 beer garden right now is three sided with one 20 open side. I don't know if you guys got any good 21 pictures of the actual beer garden. I got one 22 with me, and I could show you and explain that 23 that will come down and seal it off. The west 24 - - The wall that is directly their wall that 25 goes to their yard, there is a wall, it's really 00134 1 only a metal wall. But we're going to insulate 2 it and put in a new wall at that location. Once 3 again, in a complete and honest effort to reduce 4 sound. We have installed sound panels in there 5 that have made a difference. And I'm - - I would 6 be willing to, if these - - if my proposed 7 changes don't work and - - and it appears to be 8 necessary to not use the beer garden, I will have 9 to - - I will go that route. But to be honest 10 with you, in order for me to actually do what I 11 needed to do, I need to use that extra space for 12 private parties and for service times. 13 So I ask that I be allowed to make my 14 changes and then go from there. 15 ALDERMAN WADE: Well, Mr. Chair, if I 16 may just continue. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 18 ALDERMAN WADE: I mean, it's been my 19 practice here of - - I mean, I know how hard it 20 is to start a business, you know, being a 21 business owner myself. I know it's difficult. I 22 know the amount of money you have to put into it 23 and things of that nature. I like to give people 24 the opportunity to remedy the situation and get 25 it right. I mean, that's normally how I feel 00135 1 when it comes to this committee. But, you know, 2 I thought in the beginning some of your posturing 3 about it not being so, and - - and that kind of 4 thing kind of bothered me. Your attitude has 5 gotten a lot better as we've gone along. So 6 right now, you know, I - - I just want to wait 7 and see what my committee members say - - 8 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 9 ALDERMAN WADE: - - but to me the issue 10 seems to be the beer garden. 11 THE APPLICANT: I said these are all 12 plans that I have had. The garage doors are open 13 and will be installed within a week. They were 14 supposed to be installed by today. I would have 15 liked to bring a picture of that to show. I am 16 trying to make a sincere effort to make that a 17 good quiet location that people can enjoy. She 18 did show the videotape of Thursday, which was the 19 7th, not too long ago. That was a neighborhood 20 person that had his - - that had his 24th 21 birthday party - -or 26th birthday party, and 22 that's why there was people out there at that 23 time, and it wasn't closed off like the way - - 24 the way we plan it. I can guarantee you that the 25 renovations for the beer garden will be done 00136 1 within a two month period, and at that time if 2 you - - if you don't think that I've taken the 3 correct steps, we can - - we can work with it 4 then. 5 ALDERMAN WADE: Well, I'm - - I'm going 6 to wait and see what my committee members, what 7 their feeling is on it, but, I mean, the way it 8 stands for me right now, you know, I would like 9 to see you get rid of the beer garden. I think 10 that would help the neighbors in the 11 neighborhood, but, you know, I'm - - I'm not - - 12 It's not a one man committee, so let me listen to 13 some more of the testimony as we go. So, thank 14 you. 15 THE APPLICANT: The renovation - - The 16 renovation itself of the beer garden once they're 17 completed are going to run me anywhere from 20 to 18 30,000 dollars, so I'd like, once again, to at 19 least have that opportunity before I would say 20 that I would like to close the beer garden. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Anything further 22 from members of the committee? This matter is in 23 committee. 24 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 00137 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman, based on 2 neighborhood objections to the loud and raucous 3 noise, the littering, disorderly patrons, public 4 urination, disturbing the peace, I would at this 5 time move for approval of the renewal of the 6 Class "B" tavern license with a 15 day 7 suspension. I would at this time also further 8 move to non-renew the extension of premises for 9 this establishment, in addition to which I would 10 move at this point, also, to amend the hours of 11 the operation so that from Sunday to Thursday the 12 operation would only be open to ten p.m. at 13 night, and to midnight on Saturday night and - - 14 or on Friday night and Saturday night. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 16 Bohl is to recommend renewal of the Class "B" 17 tavern license with a 15 day suspension. Non- 18 renewal of the extension of premises. And 19 modification in the hours of operation, which 20 would be ten p.m. during the week closing time, 21 and to midnight on Friday night and Saturday 22 night. Is there any discussion on the motion? 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: On the motion, I'm 00138 1 not sure if he wanted to include the police 2 report. If not, that's fine. I just - - 3 ALDERMAN BOHL: Yes, I would - - I 4 would also include it. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Then I would move 6 that the police report become part of the 7 permanent record. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Alderman 9 Puente moves to make the police report part of 10 the permanent record in this hearing. Hearing no 11 objections, so ordered. And Alderman Bohl's 12 motion is also based on items contained in the 13 police report. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I have 15 some questions about this. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf? 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: First of all, if I 18 understand the motion, we're renewing the Class 19 "B" with a 15 day suspension. And we're not 20 renewing the permanent extension to the beer 21 garden. And then we're going to close the Class 22 "B" at ten p.m. on weeknights, and midnight, 23 Friday and Saturday night. Did I get it - - 24 That's all? 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: That's - - That's 00139 1 the motion the way I understand it. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is that correct, 4 Alderman Bohl? 5 ALDERMAN BOHL: Correct. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Um, I just want to make 7 sure. Ms. Barron, is the beer garden part of a 8 permanent extension of this premises? 9 MS. BARRON: The beer garden is part of 10 the premises. To become part of the premise 11 description you usually have to fill out a 12 permanent extension. That's just the process by 13 which we add things to the premise description. 14 So it's - - 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: So the beer garden - - 16 MS. BARRON: - - first floor, beer 17 garden and basement storage is part of the 18 premises. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. Well, Mr. 20 Chairman, I think we might have a problem there. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman, I would 22 move to amend the premise description to exclude 23 out the portion of the beer garden as part of - - 24 of the licensed premise location. 25 MR. ARENA: I have to place an 00140 1 objection to that on the record. That would 2 have - - 3 ALDERMAN BOHL: That's great. You 4 don't have - - You don't have - - You know what? 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just - - 6 ALDERMAN BOHL: You don't have the 7 ability to do that right now, buddy. 8 MR. ARENA: This is a quasi-judicial 9 proceeding in that Chapter 125 - - 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: We're - - We're 11 - - We're in committee. I'm still running this 12 meeting, I think. Mr. Schrimpf. 13 MR. ARENA: Chapter 125 premises is 14 specifically defined by the licensee under the 15 definition of premises in 125.01, definition 16 section. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Let me check that. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 19 Just let Mr. Schrimpf check on this, please. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Chapter 125.02.14M 23 defines as a premises, "Means the area described 24 in a license or a permit." The license or the 25 permit is being considered by the committee right 00141 1 now. It's true there's been an application filed 2 that includes that, but the permit is being 3 considered. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: My question is has 5 this - - has this beer garden been considered a 6 - - an extension of premises or is it the 7 premise? That - - That is the question, is it 8 not? 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: It's not an extension. 10 Right. The way it's set up right now it's part 11 of the premises. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It is the 13 premises. Then can we - - Does this committee 14 have the power to separate the premise? 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: The League of Wisconsin 16 Municipalities in their manual has indicated that 17 for any revision during the license year a 18 licensee must file a written request with the 19 Municipal Official to amend the premises 20 description. It is within the discretion of the 21 governing body to approve or disapprove the 22 change. Citing 125.04.3H. So my hunch would be, 23 Mr. Chairman, that - - that the Council and this 24 committee can recommend what the premises should 25 be. And I - - That's one issue. 00142 1 Then the second issue deals with the 2 closing at ten p.m., and I just - - and midnight 3 during the week, and I just want to make sure the 4 committee is aware of Section 125.68.4 dealing 5 with closing hours. A municipal - - sub 5, a 6 municipality may not by ordinance impose 7 different hours than those provided under sub 1, 8 which in the case of a Class "B" premises are the 9 usual hours that you're used to. I think it's 10 six a.m. until two, and then 2:30 on the 11 weekends. 12 Now, the point is you're not 13 technically imposing it by ordinance here. 14 You're actually imposing it by virtue of the case 15 that you have heard and the facts unique to that 16 particular case. So I want to call that possible 17 issue to the committee's attention. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Alderman 19 Bohl, your motion as stands. Correct? 20 ALDERMAN BOHL: As stands. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. So the 22 renewal of the Class "B" tavern license with a 15 23 day suspension. We are limiting the premise by 24 removing the beer garden from the boundaries of 25 the premise. Ten p.m. closing time during the 00143 1 week, and midnight on Friday and Saturday. 2 That's the motion on the table. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: And the midnight on 4 Friday and Saturday, we're - - we're talking 5 about Friday until midnight, and we're talking 6 Saturday until midnight. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Correct. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Correct. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And that's 11 based on neighborhood testimony and item - - 12 items contained in the police report. Any 13 discussion on the motion? Let's do a roll call 14 on the - - on the motion. 15 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Bohl? 16 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 17 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Puente? 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 19 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Wade? 20 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 21 CLERK ELMER: Alderman Dudzik? 22 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 23 CLERK ELMER: Mr. Chair? 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 25 CLERK ELMER: Five to zero. 00144 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Arena, the committee 2 is going to be doing findings of fact and 3 conclusions of law, recommending as set forth in 4 the motion. I'm a little reticent to restate it 5 right now. You will receive a copy of that 6 recommendation, and if you wish to file 7 exceptions to that recommendation, you must file 8 them by 4:45 p.m., May 3rd, 2007 in the City 9 Clerk's office on the second floor of this 10 building. If you file such exceptions, you will 11 be able to appear before the Common Council when 12 it meets on this matter on May 8th, 2007 at 13 approximately nine a.m. in the Common Council 14 Chambers of this building. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you all. 16 * * * * * * 00145 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a complete transcript of The Red Dot 11 that came before the Licenses Committee Hearing held 12 on April 24, 2007, 2007. 13 14 15 16 17 18 JEAN M. BARINA 19 Court Reporter 20 21 22 Dated this day of May 2007. 23