00001 1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 2 UTILITIES & LICENSES COMMITTEE 3 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4 In the Matter of: 5 MC PIKE, Eloise E., Agent for "Charles D Productions, Inc.", Tavern Amusement (Cabaret/Nite Club) application 6 for "Focused" at 3500 West Park Hill Avenue. 7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 9 ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR. - Chairman 10 Ald. Marlene Johnson-Odom - Vice Chair 11 Ald. Fredrick G. Gordon 12 Ald. Joseph A. Dudzik 13 14 DEPARTMENT OF NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER 15 HEALTH DEPARTMENT by OSCAR L. BOND 16 LICENSING DIVISION by JAMES COPELAND 17 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SERGEANT JOHN HOGAN 18 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by BRUCE SCHRIMPF 19 KARMA RODGERS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT 20 Proceedings had and testimony given in the above-entitled matter, before the UTILITIES & 21 LICENSING COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on the 11th day of March, 2003, reported by Donna 22 Gulczynski of Milwaukee Reporters Associated, Inc. 23 24 25 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (NOTE: All City Personnel Were Sworn Under 3 Oath Prior to These Proceedings.) 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We're going to move a little 5 bit off the agenda, and the next item that we'll take 6 is on the 10:00 agenda for Eloise McPike, agent for 7 Charles D Productions, Incorporated, Class "B" tavern 8 and tavern dance application for Focused at 3500 West 9 Park Hill Avenue. 10 There is also -- and I think that we 11 probably can take these items together. There is also 12 a separate cabaret/nightclub application as well for 13 Eloise McPike at the same location. 14 We have -- This is in the 16th Aldermanic 15 District. We have Karma Rodgers here to represent 16 Miss McPike. Is the applicant here before us at this 17 point? 18 MS. RODGERS: She was here earlier, but she 19 did in fact leave, and we -- she agreed to sign the 20 form to allow her to come back at the next meeting. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I know that there are a 22 substantial number of residents, or so I'm told, who 23 are here to testify against this. Can we at least 24 see a show of hands of those individuals who are 25 here? Okay. 00003 1 How we are going to proceed, because the 2 applicant is not present with us, and I know that 3 there are, according to counsel, some individuals who 4 may be here in favor of the item that did leave. This 5 item, -- We will hear your testimony here today. The 6 counsel for the applicant will be allowed to provide 7 cross testimony. Your testimony will be then part of 8 the record, and this item will be continued over to 9 the April 1st hearing. Ultimately the applicant 10 and -- 11 MS. RODGERS: Is it April 1st or April 8th? 12 MR. COPELAND: April 1st. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: April 1st, I believe. The 14 applicant and any supporters would at that time be 15 able to provide testimony, and a decision should be 16 rendered at that particular committee hearing for the 17 application. 18 Before we begin, I'm going to turn this over 19 to Alderman Murphy, and if you would like to lead into 20 any comments that you have at this time. 21 Oh. Because the applicant isn't here, I 22 don't know that we should go around the horn 23 necessarily, or is that something that we probably 24 should do -- 25 MR. COPELAND: Put it on the record. 00004 1 ALDERMAN GORDON: You can still take that. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We do have, for the 3 record here, items in the police report. Why don't we 4 go around the horn. Health Department? 5 MR. BOND: No objection. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Neighborhood Services? 7 MS. BENDER: Hold for occupancy. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Sergeant Hogan, 9 we're just going to have you -- Before we begin, 10 Mr. Schrimpf, in terms of reading notification, is 11 that something that we should do, read into the 12 record, and just ask Miss Rodgers if she, in the 13 absence of Miss McPike, has received notification of 14 this hearing? 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: Sure. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I think we're -- 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: And Ms. Rodgers represents 18 Ms. McPike, and I think Ms. Rodgers is very familiar 19 with all of the information that the Sergeant would 20 read, so -- 21 MS. RODGERS: And I think what has to happen 22 is at the next hearing, you will have to ask Miss 23 McPike if in fact she received the notice, and if in 24 fact she was here today. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Absolutely. But in her 00005 1 absence, we're just going to inquire whether or 2 not -- 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, I think 4 the record should be clear, -- and I don't think 5 Ms. Rodgers is going to dispute, -- that Ms. McPike 6 was here, but she had to leave because of perhaps 7 other commitments, and the fact that this hearing 8 stretched -- this set of hearings was stretching out 9 very long, so she certainly was here, but for other 10 reasons had to leave. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. So you're indicating 12 that we will then move forward with the acknowledgment 13 at that time. 14 MS. RODGERS: And I can represent to the -- 15 to this committee, that Miss McPike did in fact 16 receive -- I have personal knowledge that Miss McPike 17 did in fact receive a notice. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And just for the 19 record, and I will just move forward and reach that, 20 and that is that she did receive notice, which 21 included both items in an attached police report, as 22 well as neighborhood objections to granting of the 23 licenses will lead to loitering, littering, loud 24 music and noise, disorderly conduct, public urination, 25 traffic problems, operating other business on a Class 00006 1 "B" tavern premises is not allowed under state law, 2 concentration of alcohol beverage outlets in the area, 3 past history of previous licensed premise, and conduct 4 which is detrimental to the health, safety and welfare 5 of the neighborhood. And you are acknowledging for 6 your client that you did receive those notices. 7 MS. RODGERS: Simply that she received the 8 notices. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Sergeant Hogan, we're 10 going to move on to you. 11 SERGEANT HOGAN: Pursuant to this 12 application, it was determined that the members of the 13 corporation were required by ordinance to be listed on 14 the application were not listed; specifically the 15 application listed Eloise McPike as president of 16 Charles D Productions, and also listed Johnny Jones as 17 the vice president. 18 The State Department of Financial 19 Institutions, which has corporate papers on file, 20 indicates that Charles Daniels is listed as the 21 president, Eloise McPike as the vice president, and 22 other members of the corporation who were not on the 23 application. Of concern was that Charles Daniels is 24 on probation for a felony theft and shows a home 25 address of 203 North 35th Street, which is upstairs 00007 1 from the location of the licensed premises. 2 The probation officer was contacted and 3 related that due to the circumstances surrounding 4 Mr. Daniels' conviction and conditions of probation, 5 that he should not have anything to do with a liquor 6 operation. That citation is pending in municipal 7 court. 8 And as a side note, we did ask Eloise McPike 9 about this, and she did tell us that Charles Daniels 10 would have nothing to do with the operation, and she 11 was asked to provide a notarized statement to that 12 effect, and she has not as of yet done so. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Miss Rodgers, we're 14 going to allow you to, at this point, raise any 15 questions about the police report. 16 MS. RODGERS: Yes, I will. I'd like to do 17 that. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please go ahead. 19 MS. RODGERS: I'm sorry. Sergeant? 20 SERGEANT HOGAN: Sergeant. 21 MS. RODGERS: Okay, Sergeant. Did you 22 review a copy of the application? 23 SERGEANT HOGAN: I did, yes. 24 MS. RODGERS: And do you have a copy of that 25 application that you reviewed? 00008 1 SERGEANT HOGAN: I do not. 2 MS. RODGERS: I have a copy of that 3 application, and no place on that application is 4 Miss McPike listed as a president. Can you provide 5 a copy of that document to me? 6 SERGEANT HOGAN: No, I don't have one with 7 me. 8 MS. RODGERS: Where did you get it from? 9 SERGEANT HOGAN: From the License clerk. 10 MS. RODGERS: Okay. We have copies of the 11 application, -- we should have copies of the 12 application here, and I would like for the committee 13 to take a look at that application and see if you see 14 anyplace where Miss McPike is listed as a president. 15 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I have it on my 16 application. Is that where it says president? 17 MS. RODGERS: President is not circled. 18 She's a member. She's listed as the agent. On the 19 other application, she's only listed as the agent. 20 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Mr. Chairman, just for the 21 record, -- 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Murphy. 23 ALDERMAN MURPHY: The application that I 24 have before me, and I'll be happy to submit it for 25 the record, says, "Title. President/member." And 00009 1 then most common sense would indicate that when you 2 put your name next to that, that kind of infers that 3 you're either the president or a member, and it says, 4 "Eloise McPike," so that could be the confusion. 5 MS. RODGERS: But if you're a chairman of 6 the board and you're the licensee, where are you 7 supposed to put your name? That's why she did not 8 circle president. She's not the president. She's 9 chairman of the board, and it was left blank, so she 10 never made -- she did not swear to anything saying 11 that she's the president of the organization. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Copeland, -- 13 MR. COPELAND: I'm showing the city attorney 14 the application. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf? 16 MS. RODGERS: May I see that application as 17 well? I want to make sure it's the same one. I mean 18 unless you have something we don't have. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, that's certainly fine. 20 MS. RODGERS: Mr. City Attorney, does it say 21 president? Does it say that she's the president? Is 22 that circled at all? 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: It says, "President/member." 24 Then there's a line, and next to it is handwritten, 25 "Eloise McPike," and an address of 4344 North 29th 00010 1 Street. 2 MS. RODGERS: If you are chairman of the 3 board, where else would you -- on that application, 4 where else would you put your name? 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And let me just -- Let me 6 ask Mr. Copeland, Mr. Copeland, we don't have to enter 7 this necessarily into the record because it should be 8 part of the record. 9 MR. COPELAND: Yes. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that not correct? 11 MS. RODGERS: I agree with that, it should 12 be part of the record. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, and it is. It is. 14 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. So your objection, 16 Miss Rodgers, to that particular item is duly noted, 17 and you are free to go on if you have other items 18 you'd like to raise. 19 MR. COPELAND: Oh, excuse me, Mr. Chairman. 20 One thing. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Copeland. 22 MR. COPELAND: This is a state form. This 23 is not a form designed and adopted by the City of 24 Milwaukee. This is a form by the State of Wisconsin. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 00011 1 MS. RODGERS: That is granted. I mean we 2 don't have an issue with that. We have the issue 3 with the statement that Miss McPike indicated that 4 she was president of the Charles D Productions, and 5 she is -- in fact, has been elected president, but is 6 not president currently, and when -- She was not when 7 she filled out that application. Mr. Daniels is -- 8 or was the president of Charles D Productions up until 9 July of 2002. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Let me, Mr. Chairman, -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Yes. I would like to ask 14 Ms. Rodgers -- We understand what you're saying about 15 Ms. McPike, but what about the other corporate 16 officers? 17 MS. RODGERS: There's only one other 18 corporate officer, and that's Mr. Jones at this point. 19 The other officers that are listed all resigned, 20 including Mr. Daniels, in July of 2002. And the 21 reason for that -- for those resignations was simply 22 because they could no longer serve -- they could not 23 be officers of the corporation and also work as part 24 of a grant for AIDS prevention. 25 They received a grant to talk about AIDS and 00012 1 HIV prevention, and part of that grant indicated that 2 employees of the corporation could not be officers of 3 the corporation. All of those individuals resigned in 4 June of 2002. The application was filed in October. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: And those other individuals 6 who are involved with that AIDS prevention operation, 7 that's the other business that's being conducted at 8 this location; is that correct? 9 MS. RODGERS: Yes, it is, the Charles D 10 Productions. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 12 MS. RODGERS: And we have, just for your 13 information, people here who can testify. People who 14 were former officers of the corporation will testify 15 that they did in fact resign in July of 2002 along 16 with Mr. Daniels. Mr. Daniels was here earlier, and 17 he will come in and testify at the next meeting, same 18 thing. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, have you 20 thoroughly responded to the police report? Is there 21 anything else? 22 MS. RODGERS: One other question on the 23 police report. Sergeant, how did you receive the 24 corporate papers of Charles D Productions? 25 SERGEANT HOGAN: I requested them from the 00013 1 state. 2 MS. RODGERS: You requested them from the 3 state? 4 SERGEANT HOGAN: Yes. 5 MS. RODGERS: And why did you request them 6 from the state? 7 SERGEANT HOGAN: For the information to 8 believe that the application was in error, and that 9 corporate members were not listed, and that she was -- 10 that Charles Daniels was part of the corporation, and 11 that she was not the president. 12 MS. RODGERS: Is it your standard practice 13 to check on the corporate papers of every corporation? 14 SERGEANT HOGAN: With cause, yes. 15 MS. RODGERS: Pardon me? 16 SERGEANT HOGAN: With cause, yes. 17 MS. RODGERS: What cause did you have? 18 SERGEANT HOGAN: The information was 19 provided to us as I just stated. 20 MS. RODGERS: Who provided you the 21 information? 22 SERGEANT HOGAN: Alderman Murphy. 23 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And was there -- Did 24 you ask him why? 25 SERGEANT HOGAN: No. 00014 1 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Do you have any idea 2 why? 3 SERGEANT HOGAN: I wasn't interested in 4 knowing. 5 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you, Miss 7 Rodgers. Alderman Murphy, did you want to -- 8 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. Thank you, 9 Mr. Chairman and committee members. To give you a 10 little history on this application, I met with the 11 applicant several months ago. They wanted to pursue 12 opening up this establishment at 3500 West Park Hill 13 Avenue as a tavern, and I indicated to them at that 14 meeting that it's incumbent upon them to seek and gain 15 the support of the neighbors before I would support 16 that. 17 Subsequently I was contacted, and I 18 contacted them inquiring to them is have they sought 19 the support of the neighbors and asked at this time -- 20 the hearing was scheduled last month, -- if they would 21 hold off until allowing me to have a neighborhood 22 meeting on this hearing to allow the neighbors to get 23 together to have some testimony and see if they'd 24 gotten the neighborhood support. They declined to do 25 that. They said there wasn't enough importance 00015 1 there, to go ahead with this hearing. 2 Subsequently I said I have to have the 3 meeting; therefore, I held the meeting on the 14th, 4 Valentine's Day, which my wife will still not forgive 5 me for, and we held the meeting with the neighborhood 6 residents on a Friday. And let me first say thank you 7 to Bruce Schrimpf, who took time out of his schedule 8 to come to the meeting, also. 9 At that meeting the applicants had an 10 opportunity to have a dialogue with the neighborhood 11 residents as to their potential plan of operation. 12 At the conclusion of that meeting, I believe it was a 13 unanimous vote that the neighbors were opposed to 14 supporting this request. 15 Subsequently it was heard before this 16 committee last month, upon which I requested that in 17 fairness to the applicant, since the license was not 18 going to be notified at that time about objections 19 from neighbors, that they be afforded the opportunity 20 to be heard today; and, therefore, the notices went 21 out as has been read into the record. 22 We do have a lot of neighbors and residents 23 here who wish to testify on this item. I know -- I 24 appreciate you taking it out of order. This was 25 scheduled at 10. There were several neighbors who 00016 1 were unable to stay, so on the April 1st hearing, I 2 can assume that the applicant will have their 3 supporters here, but I can tell you there will also 4 be more objectors, and you'll probably hear from 5 three-quarters of them today, though. 6 ALDERMAN GORDON: Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon. 8 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. Alderman 9 Murphy, I just have one question as to the 10 neighborhood meeting. How many residents attended? 11 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I believe there was 12. 12 ALDERMAN GORDON: Twelve? 13 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Approximately 12. 14 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We have -- Miss 16 Rodgers, go ahead. 17 MS. RODGERS: May I ask a question of 18 Alderman Murphy? 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Absolutely. Yes, you may. 20 MS. RODGERS: Of those 12 members who 21 attended, how many were in your district? 22 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I didn't ask. 23 MS. RODGERS: Do you have any idea how many 24 were there? 25 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I didn't look. 00017 1 MS. RODGERS: Well, I mean -- 2 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I didn't look as to who 3 was in my district or not. 4 MS. RODGERS: There is no point in being 5 hostile, Alderman. I won't be hostile toward you. 6 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I'm not hostile. I'm 7 answering your questions, Miss Rodgers. 8 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 9 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I would have to say I 10 don't think it's germane to the point of whether 11 they're my constituents or not. The last time I 12 checked they're all City of Milwaukee residents. 13 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Did you request the 14 sergeant to look at the corporate records of Charles D 15 Productions? 16 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. 17 MS. RODGERS: And why did you do that, sir? 18 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Based on neighborhood 19 complaints. 20 MS. RODGERS: And why would the neighborhood 21 complain -- why would the neighbors complain about 22 Charles D Productions? 23 ALDERMAN MURPHY: From my recollection 24 at the meeting that was held with the neighbors, 25 Mr. Daniels inferred that he was a board member of 00018 1 this corporation, and that was going to be one of his 2 main focuses as running, I believe, a social service 3 agency outside of the tavern, in addition to the 4 tavern license. Subsequently a neighbor inquired 5 about his background, and I believe that's where they 6 found that he had a felony. 7 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Do you normally request 8 the corporate records of all of the applicants that 9 come before you? 10 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. 11 MS. RODGERS: And the reason for this was 12 that your -- you decided after the neighborhood 13 meeting? 14 ALDERMAN MURPHY: After I received a letter 15 from a neighbor inquiring about it. 16 MS. RODGERS: Okay. When did you ask the 17 police department to look into it? 18 ALDERMAN MURPHY: As soon as I got that 19 request. 20 MS. RODGERS: And do you recall when that 21 was? 22 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Probably, -- It was a few 23 days after the neighborhood meeting. 24 MS. RODGERS: Did you fax something to the 25 police department? 00019 1 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Did I fax something to the 2 police department? 3 SERGEANT HOGAN: I got it from Mr. Copeland 4 that had your cover letter on it. 5 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yeah, I think I sent it to 6 the License Division, and I just assumed the License 7 Division had sent something to the police department. 8 MS. RODGERS: And the date on that document 9 will reflect that it was subsequent to the 10 neighborhood meeting? 11 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I believe so. 12 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Do you have a copy of 13 that document, Mr. Copeland? 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Copeland? 15 MR. COPELAND: I will have to get it out of 16 our files. 17 MS. RODGERS: I would like to see it, but -- 18 We can wait for it, but I would just like to know. 19 Alderman Murphy, did anyone from Charles D 20 Productions indicate to you the type of business that 21 was being conducted in that location currently, the 22 social service agency? 23 ALDERMAN MURPHY: They referred to it as 24 an -- where they were assisting with dealing with AIDS 25 issues. 00020 1 MS. RODGERS: With AIDS issues? 2 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Correct. 3 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Do you have an issue 4 with AIDS issues? 5 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. As a matter of fact, 6 for the record, I am the alderman who sponsored the 7 largest significant increase in city tax dollars for 8 the Milwaukee AIDS Project. 9 MS. RODGERS: Do you have an issue with 10 Mr. Daniels himself? 11 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. 12 MS. RODGERS: Have you ever refused to shake 13 Mr. Daniels' hand? 14 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. Absolutely not. 15 MS. RODGERS: And if Mr. Daniels testified 16 differently, would you -- 17 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I would characterize him, 18 unfortunately, as a liar. 19 MS. RODGERS: Is there anyone that you know 20 of who has HIV or AIDS? 21 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. 22 MS. RODGERS: And you don't have a problem 23 with shaking their hands? 24 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Absolutely not. 25 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 00021 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, is there any 2 other -- 3 MS. RODGERS: -- questions of Alderman 4 Murphy? 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Right. 6 MS. RODGERS: Alderman Murphy, you testified 7 that the individuals from Charles D Productions did 8 nothing in terms of contacting the neighbors, or did I 9 misunderstand that? 10 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I have a letter for the 11 record that I'd like to submit, -- thank you, Miss 12 Rodgers, -- that was sent by Miss Eloise McPike on the 13 21st of February which apologizes for the fact that 14 she could not meet with the neighbors, so I'll submit 15 that for the record. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Murphy, do you have 17 just one letter here? Would you -- Could we provide 18 that to counsel first? Take a look at it. 19 MS. RODGERS: I did see it. Thank you. 20 ALDERMAN MURPHY: And just to answer her 21 question, based on the lack of support from the 22 neighborhood, it's an inference that I made that 23 clearly there was little to no contact with neighbors. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Alderman Gordon will 25 move to make this letter part of our record. There 00022 1 being no objection, so ordered. 2 ALDERMAN MURPHY: And for the record, that 3 letter states that Miss McPike is apologizing for not 4 meeting with the neighbors. 5 MS. RODGERS: She's apologizing for not 6 contacting them sooner. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Is there anything 8 else, Miss Rodgers, from you at this point? 9 MS. RODGERS: Just one other question for 10 Alderman Murphy. Alderman Murphy, did anyone from 11 Charles D Productions talk with you prior to this 12 application or during the pendency of the application? 13 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. 14 MS. RODGERS: And did they talk with you 15 about the bar itself? 16 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. 17 MS. RODGERS: And did you at any time 18 indicate your support? 19 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Pending support of the 20 neighborhood residents. 21 MS. RODGERS: So in the beginning you 22 thought you might be able to support it. And what 23 was the basis for your giving that impression to the 24 applicant? 25 ALDERMAN MURPHY: The previous establishment 00023 1 was granted a license, and they were in business, and 2 this previously was a tavern. It's been closed for 3 some time, approximately two years. Therefore, I did 4 not anticipate strong neighborhood objections, but I 5 indicated until I held a neighborhood meeting, I would 6 withhold my support. 7 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And how many homes, 8 actual homes, are adjacent to the bar or any other 9 bar? 10 ALDERMAN MURPHY: How would you define 11 adjacent, Miss Rodgers? 12 MS. RODGERS: Well, the same way Webster's 13 would. I mean -- I don't mean to be flip, but -- 14 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Oh, now you're hostile, 15 but I would say -- 16 MS. RODGERS: If I were being hostile, -- I 17 think you would know the difference between being flip 18 and hostile. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, -- 20 MS. RODGERS: I'm sorry. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's keep the testimony 22 germane to what's before us here. 23 MS. RODGERS: Do I need to -- I mean do you 24 really want me to define adjacent? 25 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Sure. Do you mean -- 00024 1 MS. RODGERS: Next to, close by. 2 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Do you mean behind the 3 property, do you mean adjacent as it refers to the 4 residents behind the bar? 5 MS. RODGERS: How many addresses are on -- 6 ALDERMAN MURPHY: I don't know on -- 7 MS. RODGERS: -- Park Hill Avenue? 8 ALDERMAN MURPHY: -- on Park Hill Avenue. 9 MS. RODGERS: Homes. 10 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Off the top of my head, I 11 don't know. 12 MS. RODGERS: But is it closer to five or 13 closer to 20? 14 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Probably five. 15 MS. RODGERS: Okay. So maybe five homes. 16 Probably three, right? I mean it could be. 17 ALDERMAN MURPHY: As I indicated in 18 answering your question, I don't have it in front 19 of me. 20 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, are you -- 22 MS. RODGERS: Nothing further. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We're going to move 24 forward right now into testimony from residents. Can 25 we see a show of hands of those individuals who are 00025 1 here to testify either for or against the licensed 2 item? Okay. 3 What we will ask you to do is, if you could 4 all raise your right hand, we will swear you in en 5 masse, both individuals who are for and against. 6 We will -- After you are sworn in, we will ask 7 individuals who are in opposition to this license to 8 come forward to the stand here to provide your name 9 and your address for the record, and then to -- to 10 then provide your testimony either as to why you 11 oppose the license application or why you support it. 12 Again, please raise your right hand. Madam Clerk. 13 (Whereupon all witness were sworn under 14 oath.) 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. We'll just take you 16 up at random here one at a time, and we want to kind 17 of move this along. Again, if we get into the issue 18 of where we have redundant testimony, we will ask you 19 to either substantially agree or disagree with what 20 has previously been stated. 21 MR. SIFUENTES: My name is Henry Sifuentes. 22 I live at 3505 West Mount Vernon Avenue. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And Mr. Sifuentes, could you 24 please spell your last name? 25 MR. SIFUENTES: S-i-f-u-e-n-t-e-s. 00026 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. 2 MR. SIFUENTES: I am in Alderman Murphy's 3 district, and I live on the corner of 35th and Mount 4 Vernon, which is on the same block as the bar in 5 question. It's on the opposite corner. 6 MS. RODGERS: What was your address? I'm 7 sorry. 8 MR. SIFUENTES: 3505 West Mount Vernon. 9 Although the bar -- I mean I can see the bar from my 10 kitchen window, but in between -- Next door to me is 11 T.J.'s Bar, which is a small -- basically a sports 12 bar, and T.J.'s is basically open during Packer games, 13 and then there's a parking lot which belongs to 14 Trigram Rehabilitation Center, and then the bar on 15 35th. What happens -- Unfortunately the bar has no 16 parking lot of its own, so what happens is that the 17 patrons end up parking in Trigram's parking lot, and 18 this then affects the whole block. 19 Although there may not -- There's only three 20 addresses on West Park Hill, but on Park Hill there's 21 two daycare centers that are adjacent to the bar, and 22 then there's the Dower house. But when the patrons 23 park in the lot, then that's when all the problems 24 start from -- especially at bar closing, from loud 25 radios to -- In the summertime it goes to three, 4:00 00027 1 in the morning. We have found syringes in the parking 2 lot, we have found condoms in the parking lot. 3 There's quite an array of problems that we have in the 4 parking lot. 5 Now, the new owners of Trigram just recently 6 bought the building last year, and they are not going 7 to permit anybody parking in their lot. So what's 8 going to happen is all the patrons from the bar will 9 be parking on the streets. 10 On Park Hill there is -- there will be very 11 limited parking because there's only one side, because 12 the other side is the freeway, so you can't park on 13 that side of the street, so what's going to happen is 14 they'll have to find other places to park, which is 15 going to directly affect all the addresses on Mount 16 Vernon, on 36th Street, down as far as 37th Street, 17 and this is where the problems will start. Miss 18 Balistreri lives at 3519 West Mount Vernon, and her 19 yard faces the parking lot -- 20 MS. RODGERS: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to 21 object. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Sifuentes, if 23 Mrs. Balistreri wants to come forward, -- 24 MR. SIFUENTES: She will. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- then she can. 00028 1 MR. SIFUENTES: Okay. But I'm just trying 2 to give a picture. I mean although the attorney is 3 trying to say there was only three addresses adjacent 4 to the bar, and that these only three addresses will 5 be affected by the bar, no. The whole block, the 6 whole neighborhood, will be affected. So, you know, 7 just because there's only three addresses next door 8 to the bar doesn't mean there will be no problems. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 10 MR. SIFUENTES: I just hope that you take 11 into consideration all our thoughts because if you 12 grant this license, I guarantee you I'll be calling 13 your houses at three, 4:00 in the morning, each and 14 every one of you. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Mr. Sifuentes, 16 please remain there. Questions by committee members? 17 Okay. Miss Rodgers, go ahead. 18 MS. RODGERS: Thank you, Chairman Bohl. 19 Mr. Sifuentes, -- I don't think I'll say it again, 20 but -- 21 MR. SIFUENTES: You can call me Henry, 22 that's fine. 23 MS. RODGERS: Okay, Henry. That's good. 24 You said that there were syringes, you found syringes 25 and other paraphernalia in the area? 00029 1 MR. SIFUENTES: Correct. 2 MS. RODGERS: And that was from the previous 3 bar owner; is that correct? 4 MR. SIFUENTES: Pretty much so, yes. 5 MS. RODGERS: Have you had an opportunity to 6 meet Miss McPike or Mr. Jones? 7 MR. SIFUENTES: No, I've never been 8 contacted. 9 MS. RODGERS: Did you get a letter from Miss 10 McPike? 11 MR. SIFUENTES: No. 12 MS. RODGERS: You said that -- You 13 mentioned, was it Trigram? 14 MR. SIFUENTES: Trigram Rehabilitation. 15 MS. RODGERS: Trigram Rehabilitation. Are 16 you an officer of that corporation? 17 MR. SIFUENTES: No. 18 MS. RODGERS: Are you involved with the 19 corporation at all? 20 MR. SIFUENTES: No. 21 MS. RODGERS: How do you know they won't 22 allow any parking? 23 MR. SIFUENTES: Because I've spoken to them. 24 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And why did you speak 25 to them? 00030 1 MR. SIFUENTES: Because when I got the 2 letter from Alderman Murphy's office saying that 3 there would be a meeting regarding the possible 4 granting of a license for the bar, I tried to call 5 all my neighbors on my block, and I called as many as 6 I knew to speak to them, see how -- what the general 7 consensus was, and the general consensus was that they 8 didn't want the liquor license granted. 9 MS. RODGERS: Okay. How long have you lived 10 there? 11 MR. SIFUENTES: Lived there since my parents 12 moved there in 1956. 13 MS. RODGERS: So you've been there since 14 1956? 15 MR. SIFUENTES: Correct. Not in that 16 particular house, but two houses west. 17 MS. RODGERS: Okay. So you are basically 18 recalling the days when there was a bar there before? 19 MR. SIFUENTES: Yes, I knew Renee -- I was 20 in the Cozy Corner a couple times. 21 MS. RODGERS: I'm sorry? 22 MR. SIFUENTES: I was at that bar a couple 23 times, and I realized it was a gay bar. 24 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And what did you call 25 it, Closing Corner? 00031 1 MR. SIFUENTES: Cozy Corner, Renee's Cozy 2 Corner. 3 MS. RODGERS: Cozy Corner. Okay, fine. And 4 you mentioned T.J.'s Bar. Are you affiliated with 5 that? 6 MR. SIFUENTES: No. 7 MS. RODGERS: Do you go to that bar? 8 MR. SIFUENTES: Once or twice I've been 9 there. 10 MS. RODGERS: And why did you mention it in 11 your testimony? 12 MR. SIFUENTES: Because they're right next 13 door to me. I just wanted you to know -- I mean the 14 thing is that T.J.'s is a small bar. It's a small 15 neighborhood bar. It's not a dance club. It's not 16 where people come from all over the city to party, and 17 then -- you know, T.J.'s, it's a neighborhood bar. 18 It's basically a quiet bar. 19 MS. RODGERS: And that's the reason you 20 didn't object to T.J.'s license; is that correct? 21 MR. SIFUENTES: Well, the previous owner of 22 T.J.'s I did object to. 23 MS. RODGERS: Okay. But you didn't object 24 to T.J.'s. 25 MR. SIFUENTES: No, because T.J. came and 00032 1 talked to me before he got the license, and he assured 2 me everything would be fine, and I've had no problems 3 with T.J. He's my neighbor. 4 MS. RODGERS: But that's right next door to 5 you. 6 MR. SIFUENTES: Exactly. Our buildings 7 touch. 8 MS. RODGERS: Okay. How far away is Miss 9 McPike's bar? 10 MR. SIFUENTES: It's at the other corner, 11 opposite corner. 12 MS. RODGERS: Opposite corner? 13 MR. SIFUENTES: On 35th Street. 14 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Would you be opposed 15 to having a meeting with Miss McPike and Mr. Jones? 16 MR. SIFUENTES: Well, you know, we can have 17 a meeting, but I'm already against it because it's 18 been very quiet for the last two years, and I like it 19 that way. 20 MS. RODGERS: And you just make the 21 assumption that it's going to be noisy; you don't 22 know that. 23 MR. SIFUENTES: I know it's going to be 24 noisy. 25 MS. RODGERS: How do you know that? 00033 1 MR. SIFUENTES: Because of the previous bar. 2 MS. RODGERS: Okay. I have nothing further. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman? 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. Just to close off 6 one issue before it gets sidetracked, there was a 7 question I believe Ms. Rodgers asked Alderman Murphy 8 about when he received the letter that caused him to 9 communicate to find out who the corporate officers 10 were, and Ms. Rodgers reviewed the file, and now the 11 issue has sort of dropped, but I have reviewed the 12 file, and I don't think Ms. Rodgers will dispute this. 13 The letter in question is dated February 14 18th, 2003, which was approximately four days after 15 the neighborhood meeting, the alderman indicated, and 16 in fact there is a fax time on it. It was faxed at 17 8:30 p.m. on the evening of February 18th, 2003. 18 MS. RODGERS: That is true, and I'm sorry I 19 didn't point that out. I was looking at it, and I 20 lost track of it. 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's why I raised it. 22 MS. RODGERS: Oh. Thanks. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, thank you. 24 I'm going to make -- Before we begin -- or continue 25 with the testimony, I'm going to state this one more 00034 1 time. For individuals who are here on bartender 2 licenses, a new bartender license, we have -- I 3 believe we have substantial testimony yet on this 4 item. We have six additional items. I will very 5 likely, before we even get into bartenders, take 6 another short break for this committee. 7 If you are here on a new bartender's 8 license, and you are unable to stay, please go out 9 to the hallway, and you can leave your name with the 10 person from the Licensing Division at the desk. We 11 will call you back and renotice you, and we will hear 12 you three weeks from now. I cannot offer you a time. 13 I apologize. We have been running substantially late. 14 This is unanticipated, but if you are unable to stick 15 around, I just want to reiterate that again. This is 16 the last time I'm going to state that, so -- Okay. 17 The next witness, please. 18 MS. LANGSTON: Hi. My name is Valerie 19 Langston, L-a-n-g-s-t-o-n, and I live at 201 North 20 36th Street. That would be half a block east of the 21 alley from 36th and Park Hill, 3600 Park Hill, so I'm 22 one block from the bar. They're at 3500, and that's 23 my house along the street there, that seven to nine 24 cars will be parking there if this bar should open. 25 I've been in the neighborhood since November 00035 1 of 1995, and I was very aware of the bar that was 2 there before, very happy that it closed. I'm very 3 experienced with cleaning up. I have to take care 4 of the yard there close by the street, as well as 5 the sidewalk, shoveling and everything. I have 6 cleaned up after patrons of the bar. You've heard 7 it all before; loud music, loud talking, bottles 8 busting, cans, trash, ashtrays, condoms, -- 9 MS. RODGERS: I'm going to object to this 10 testimony because it's not related to this block. 11 MS. LANGSTON: Not related to what? 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, is this -- 13 MR. COPELAND: As the notice states, it's 14 past history of the previous -- 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It does indicate a past 16 history, so I will note your objection, Miss Rodgers, 17 but it is relevant. 18 MS. RODGERS: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please continue. 20 MS. LANGSTON: Okay. And, of course, car 21 products; you know, just generally people cleaning 22 their cars. I have a fence up, fence leaning. I 23 have stone -- about three stone stairs leading up to 24 my porch area; people would sit on the stone part of 25 my property, but that's all fenced in now. Just the 00036 1 general loud music and loud noise. I don't know. 2 I have a little statement here. To me the 3 truth is that the owners will not be able to control 4 what the patrons do as they leave the bar. They might 5 be willing to take all types of measures to help the 6 neighborhood, but I just don't see that they will be 7 able to adequately control -- as we saw earlier with 8 the J.R. situation, -- the only way that I can be sure 9 that I won't be wakened at night, on Friday night, 10 Saturday night, Sunday night, Monday night, whichever 11 night the bars are open, is that no bar should open 12 there period. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Questions from 14 committee members? Miss Rodgers? 15 MS. RODGERS: Miss Langston, are you 16 employed outside the home? 17 MS. LANGSTON: Yes, I am. 18 MS. RODGERS: And what shift do you work? 19 MS. LANGSTON: I work first shift. My first 20 shift can start anywhere from 5:30 in the morning, so 21 I usually might leave home at 4:30. It takes me a 22 good half hour to get to work. 23 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Now, you said your 24 address is -- Who's your alderman? 25 MS. LANGSTON: Murphy. 00037 1 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Your address is? 2 MS. LANGSTON: 201 North 36th Street. Right 3 on the corner. I have the corner home. 4 MS. RODGERS: No further questions. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Miss Langston. 6 Next witness, please. 7 MS. LAMERE: My name is Sarah Herbert 8 Lamere, L-a-m-e-r-e. I live at 3520 West Park Hill 9 Avenue. I am literally 25 feet from the bar. On each 10 side of my house there's a daycare. Mr. Julius Joseph 11 was here earlier. He owns the duplex literally right 12 next to the bar. He had to leave because of other 13 commitments, but -- 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, but we're going to 15 ask for your own testimony, ma'am. 16 MS. LAMERE: Okay. My family has lived 17 in that house over 50 years. Quality of life is the 18 issue here. 19 Many a times we have been woken up. Yes, 20 it was in the past due to the other bar, but on New 21 Year's Eve, this past New Year's Eve, we were woken 22 up because they decided to have a party down there. 23 Music. We called the police three times. There was 24 music. There was disputes in front of our house that 25 woke my husband and myself up and whatnot. Basically 00038 1 we're just looking for peace and quiet. I mean we 2 were great for the past two years, and, you know, we 3 want to continue living there. And that's it. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Questions by 5 committee members? 6 ALDERMAN GORDON: Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon. 8 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. Miss Lamere, 9 you indicated that there was a party on New Year's Eve 10 at this location? 11 MS. LAMERE: Yes. 12 ALDERMAN GORDON: Were you notified that 13 this place would be having a party at that time? 14 MS. LAMERE: No. 15 ALDERMAN GORDON: Was this place licensed to 16 have a party on New Year's Eve at that time? 17 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. 18 MS. LAMERE: I don't know. I mean, there 19 was no -- You know, usually when they'd have the bar 20 up and going, they'd have their signs, you know, lit 21 up and whatnot. There was a parking issue. I mean 22 they were parked into my driveway. They were blocking 23 a fire hydrant. I mean, they were parking all the way 24 up Park Hill, basically, and so they didn't come 25 around, you know, mentioning anything, and there was 00039 1 nothing stated. 2 ALDERMAN GORDON: And you indicated -- 3 you testified that you contacted the police. 4 MS. LAMERE: Yes, I did. 5 ALDERMAN GORDON: Did the police respond? 6 MS. LAMERE: They said that they did 7 respond. They came down there, and what happened was 8 they were called out to another site because there was 9 an accident literally on the corner of 35th and Park 10 Hill, but they do have a record of calls coming in 11 about citations being issued; I don't know, because I 12 was in communication with Captain Frankovic of the 3rd 13 District, and he was looking into that, but we did 14 call three separate times up until two in the morning. 15 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Copeland, does the 17 Licensing Division have any report of -- 18 MR. COPELAND: I would have to call 19 downstairs and have them check. I can do that. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay, thank you, please. 21 Any other questions by committee? Miss Rodgers? 22 MS. RODGERS: Yes. I'm just checking the 23 police report to see if I can see anything to reflect 24 the phone call. But are you sure it was the bar next 25 door and not T.J.'s? 00040 1 MS. LAMERE: Oh, yeah, I know it was next 2 door. I was woken up by the music, yeah. I was woken 3 up by the music, I was woken up by the fight in front 4 of our bedroom window. Yeah, I know it was them, 5 because I was watching them go into the bar. 6 MS. RODGERS: And what time was that? 7 MS. LAMERE: I'm sorry? 8 MS. RODGERS: What time was it? 9 MS. LAMERE: It was from 10:00 on through. 10 We were calling till 2:00 in the morning. 11 MS. RODGERS: So from 10:00 to two in the 12 morning, Miss Lamere, you made phone calls, and there 13 were people standing out in front of your window -- 14 MA. LAMERE: Yes, they were -- 15 MS. RODGERS: -- underneath your window from 16 10 till two? 17 MS. LAMERE: Not from 10 to two. When they 18 leave the bar, they do convene in front of our house. 19 When they're in front of -- heading to their cars, 20 they do convene. They do speak loudly to the point 21 where we can hear. I mean the houses are very close 22 in that neighborhood. I mean there's just a gangway 23 that basically separates my house from the neighbors, 24 and their house from the bar, so they are very close 25 to each other. 00041 1 MS. RODGERS: So you made complaints when it 2 was the other bar? 3 MS. LAMERE: Yes. 4 MS. RODGERS: And did you come down to 5 testify against the other bar -- 6 MS. LAMERE: Yes. I actually have subpoenas 7 from when I called, and I have a police log from when 8 I had to call so many times when it was the previous 9 bar. Are you talking about Cozy Corner? Yes, I do 10 have subpoenas because of all the times I called in. 11 MS. RODGERS: Have you called in about 12 T.J.'s? 13 MS. LAMERE: No. 14 MS. RODGERS: Do you go to T.J.'s? 15 MS. LAMERE: No. 16 MS. RODGERS: Do you have children? 17 MS. LAMERE: No. 18 MS. RODGERS: Where do you work? 19 MS. LAMERE: I work at Brett Funeral Home. 20 I'm a funeral director. 21 MS. RODGERS: What shift do you work? 22 MS. LAMERE: I work all shifts because death 23 knows no boundaries. I work mainly first shift, and 24 then I'm on call every other night, every other 25 weekend. 00042 1 MS. RODGERS: So you rotate. 2 MS. LAMERE: Right, yeah. Tuesday, 3 Thursdays, and every other weekend. 4 MS. RODGERS: So that's one of the reasons 5 that you may be up during that time of night, or 6 are you just being woken up during that time? 7 MS. LAMERE: I mean I'm woken up due to my 8 pager, yeah, I mean, but -- I mean not -- But that's 9 my job. 10 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Have you met Miss 11 McPike or Mr. Jones? 12 MS. LAMERE: No. 13 MS. RODGERS: Have you heard from them at 14 all? 15 MS. LAMERE: I received a letter after the 16 meeting that Alderman Murphy had held. 17 MS. RODGERS: Were they at the meeting? 18 MS. LAMERE: I was not at the meeting. 19 MS. RODGERS: You were not? 20 MS. LAMERE: No, I was not. My mother 21 represented me because I was on my honeymoon. 22 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Well, congratulations. 23 MS. LAMERE: Thank you. 24 MS. RODGERS: I have no further questions of 25 you. 00043 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. 2 MR. COPELAND: Mr. Chairman? 3 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Copeland. Before we get 5 to Alderman Murphy, Mr. Copeland, yes. 6 MR. COPELAND: In regards to the question of 7 whether or not this establishment was licensed for a 8 party for New Year's Eve, it was not. We just checked 9 the record. There was no active Class "B" tavern 10 license for this location. 11 MS. RODGERS: And we're not aware of a 12 party New Year's Eve. 13 MR. COPELAND: I'm just reporting -- 14 MS. RODGERS: Oh, okay. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Murphy, do you have 16 a comment? 17 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. I spoke to officers 18 who were dispatched to this scene, and I'll be happy 19 to have the CAD report to document it for the meeting 20 in April. No citations were issued. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. The next witness, 22 please. 23 MR. EUCLIDE: Lawrence Euclide. Everybody 24 knows me as Ziggy. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, could you spell your 00044 1 last name? 2 MR. EUCLIDE: E-u-c-l-i-d-e. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your address, 4 Mr. Euclide? 5 MR. EUCLIDE: 321 North 37th. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Please proceed with 7 your testimony. 8 MR. EUCLIDE: First thing I would like to 9 point out is I have just personally met Mr. Murphy 10 today for the very first time, and just for the 11 record, he shook my hand without asking if I had AIDS 12 or not. 13 The neighborhood that I moved into five 14 years ago I found to be a very close-knit family 15 neighborhood. Generally everybody either knows 16 everybody, or they know somebody who does know 17 somebody. So it's been an excellent neighborhood to 18 be in. I've been in there long enough to experience 19 the problems that Cozy Corner has had, so there's no 20 sense in rehashing that. It has been very quiet for 21 the last two years. 22 My main concern, I guess, is basically there 23 isn't any room for parking there for any business, 24 regardless if it's a bar, or a store, or a diner or 25 anything. There is enough parking adjacent to that 00045 1 business for approximately five to six cars, I 2 believe. I do believe that any bar open would 3 theoretically bring in more vehicles than that. Even 4 living as far away as I have from that establishment, 5 I have still been affected by the previous 6 establishment. But even daily the people that live 7 there often have enough vehicles parked there that it 8 causes problems coming around that corner. It's just 9 simply congestion wise. 10 I think that -- Well, basically, I can't 11 understand why somebody would want to open a business 12 there when everybody in the neighborhood is obviously 13 so opposed to it being there. That's basically what I 14 had to say. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions from committee? 16 Miss Rodgers? 17 MS. RODGERS: Ziggy, have you talked to 18 everybody in the neighborhood? 19 MR. EUCLIDE: I've talked to quite a few of 20 them. Not everybody. 21 MS. RODGERS: I asked if you have talked to 22 everybody. 23 MR. EUCLIDE: No, I have not. 24 MS. RODGERS: Then how do you know everybody 25 is opposed? Never mind. I'm sorry. You don't have 00046 1 to answer that. It sounds as if your primary problem 2 with a new bar there would be parking. 3 MR. EUCLIDE: I have many problems with the 4 bar being there, but some of them have already been 5 hashed out by previous testimony. 6 MS. RODGERS: Okay. But if we could 7 overcome the parking problem, and we could assure 8 that there would be no other issues that you had with 9 the previous bar, then would you still be opposed? 10 MR. EUCLIDE: Yes, I would. 11 MS. RODGERS: Why? 12 MR. EUCLIDE: We have three neighborhood 13 bars already, and even just -- though those are quiet, 14 small establishments, they in themselves create enough 15 traffic that sometimes it's a little difficult getting 16 through those areas. I don't think that we need a 17 fourth. 18 MS. RODGERS: Do you go to any of those 19 three bars? 20 MR. EUCLIDE: Very rarely. I don't go to 21 bars too often. 22 MS. RODGERS: You don't. Do you drink? 23 MR. EUCLIDE: Yes. 24 MS. RODGERS: Do you know the people from 25 T.J.'s? 00047 1 MR. EUCLIDE: No, I've never actually been 2 in T.J.'s. 3 MS. RODGERS: You haven't. But you've been 4 into the other two bars? 5 MR. EUCLIDE: Yes. 6 MS. RODGERS: What are the names of those 7 two bars? 8 MR. EUCLIDE: One is called the Ark Inn and 9 the other is called the Valley Inn. 10 MS. RODGERS: And how often do you go there? 11 MR. EUCLIDE: The Ark Inn, I've probably 12 gone two, four times in the last year. The Valley Inn 13 about the same amount of times. 14 MS. RODGERS: Okay. I have no further 15 questions. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Euclid. The 17 next resident, please? 18 MS. BALISTRERI: My name is Rose Balistreri. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Balistreri, your 20 address, please? 21 MS. BALISTRERI: 3519 West Mount Vernon 22 Avenue. Okay. My concerns are, yeah, parking is one 23 of them. Second of all, when Cozy Corner was there, 24 they tried different things to, you know, like for the 25 crowd and the parking lot and stuff, okay? They had 00048 1 security guards out there. For the first couple days, 2 you know, everything seemed to be okay, no problem. 3 Then all of a sudden like the fourth or fifth day and 4 on down the line, you'd see the security guards just 5 diminish. They were gone. And like I was talking to 6 my other neighbor, Henry Sifuentes, yeah, if they park 7 there, I've found beer cans, beer bottles in my 8 garden, in my gutter. 9 I have two grandchildren, and I've cleaned 10 along the back of the fence where that Trigram is, 11 that parking lot we're talking about, and here's the 12 corner there where the bar wants to open, Park Hill, 13 okay? Here's Trigram, here's the parking lot. All 14 these yards from the houses face that parking lot, so 15 we are all affected by that. 16 I've gone out there and cleaned needles, 17 condoms, bottles, bricks. You name it. I mean the 18 music's blaring at 2:30, because they park right 19 against my fence, and I'm not saying the new patrons 20 of this bar are going to do this. I don't know them. 21 I mean I'm not going to judge them. But all I'm 22 saying is that that's my main concern. 23 I have grandchildren. I don't need my 24 three-year-old granddaughter picking up a needle. 25 And, no, I'm not afraid of people with AIDS. I know 00049 1 many people with AIDS. My brother is gay. That does 2 not bother me. The bother to me is that -- I've lived 3 in that neighborhood also for 42 years. I was born 4 and raised in the house that I purchased from my 5 parents, and I'd like to stay there, but it's kind of 6 hard because the other neighbors are concerned. And, 7 yes, I've talked to them. It's the noise. You know, 8 people get up and go to work. 9 I'm a homemaker, okay? So it's not like I 10 have to get up at 6:00 to be to work at seven. My 11 husband does. And when you get the blaring of the 12 music and people are out there, -- Sure, it's expected 13 to have a little bit of noise when there's people in 14 the bar. That's expected. You know, people are 15 talking, whatever. They disburse. But lots of time 16 they don't. They sit and congregate, and they party 17 more. 18 And, also, I've never been in T.J.'s Bar. 19 He's just a neighborhood bar that's there. I do not 20 drink. I don't frequent the other bars, either, but 21 we've never had a problem with T.J. You know, 22 whenever he sees that there's any kind of garbage, 23 bottles or anything along the parking lot, it gets 24 cleaned. I never had a problem with T.J. I mean I've 25 met him a couple times. He waves at me when he goes 00050 1 by in his car. But other than that, that's my main 2 concern. 3 MS. RODGERS: And your alderman is -- 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, one second. 5 Questions by committee? Okay. Please proceed. 6 MS. RODGERS: I'm sorry. And your alderman 7 is Alderman Murphy? 8 MS. BALISTRERI: Yes. 9 MS. RODGERS: And did you talk to Alderman 10 Murphy about -- 11 MS. BALISTRERI: I called the office about 12 the concerns. Alderman Murphy wasn't there, but I 13 talked to -- I believe it's Christina. Yeah. And, 14 you know, she kind of filled me in. And I was going 15 to go to that meeting that they had, but I was sick. 16 I had asthma, I had bronchitis, so I couldn't make it. 17 But I called with my concerns, so he knew I was 18 concerned about it. 19 MS. RODGERS: Okay. I have no further 20 questions. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Miss Balistreri. 22 The next witness, please. 23 MR. JONES: My name is Tommy Lee Jones. 24 My address is 337 North 29th Street. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Jones, could you repeat 00051 1 that again, please? 2 MR. JONES: Tommy Lee Jones. Address is 3 337 North 29th Street. I also own the bar called 4 T.J.'s. Address is 237 North 35th Street. So I'm 5 opposed to the license because of the parking, and 6 there's just an X amount of parking in the parking 7 lot, and we try to be neighbors to each other. I 8 live close to these guys, and I try to give them the 9 benefit of the doubt to do my best, but it's a hard 10 business. It's hard to control the patrons and try to 11 run a business at the same time. 12 But the bar was open New Year's night, 13 because they went into the parking lot and stuff, and 14 I went next door and told them that they shouldn't be 15 open, and they shouldn't be parking in the lot, 16 because I have liability insurance on the parking lot, 17 and they were using it. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Questions, comments 19 by committee? 20 ALDERMAN GORDON: Mr. Chairman? 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon. 22 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. Mr. Jones, you 23 indicated that you spoke to the individuals who were 24 hosting the New Year's Eve party at this location? 25 MR. JONES: Yes. A couple of guys and 00052 1 myself walked next door and told them they couldn't 2 use the parking lot. They had a $15 cover charge in 3 the door. 4 ALDERMAN GORDON: Did you ask them who they 5 were? 6 MR. JONES: Well, one was McPike, I think 7 her name was. She was at the door. 8 ALDERMAN GORDON: I'm sorry? 9 MR. JONES: She was on the door there. 10 ALDERMAN GORDON: Who was on the door, 11 though? 12 MR. JONES: The lady name McPike, I think. 13 She was here earlier today. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are you referring to the 15 applicant, Miss McPike? 16 MR. JONES: That tall, skinny lady. I don't 17 know her personally. 18 ALDERMAN GORDON: The applicant was at the 19 door at the time that you went to speak to them when 20 they were hosting the New Year's Eve party? 21 MR. JONES: Yes. 22 ALDERMAN GORDON: And what if anything did 23 they say when you asked them about -- 24 MR. JONES: They started clearing out. 25 ALDERMAN GORDON: Pardon me? 00053 1 MR. JONES: They started clearing out. We 2 went and called the cops, and the cop was there, and 3 everybody was bombarding out of the parking lot, and 4 it was pretty much empty after about 10, 15 minutes, I 5 think. I don't know if the whole bar was empty, but 6 the lot was empty. 7 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any other questions by 9 committee? 10 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Mr. Chairman. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Murphy. 12 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Tommy, you said they were 13 charging? 14 MR. JONES: A $15 cover charge. They tried 15 to charge us, that's why I knew this. I said I'm not 16 paying 15 bucks to come in here. We were just saying 17 you can't use the parking lot. 18 ALDERMAN MURPHY: So did they say that it 19 was a private party? 20 MR. JONES: No. They didn't say anything 21 more. 22 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Okay. Thank you very 23 much. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Miss Rodgers? 25 MS. RODGERS: Did you ask if it was a 00054 1 private party? 2 MR. JONES: No, just that they couldn't use 3 the lot. 4 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And just to make sure 5 I understand for the record, you are the owner of 6 T.J.'s? 7 MR. JONES: Yes, I am. 8 MS. RODGERS: And that's the bar next door? 9 MR. JONES: Right. 10 MS. RODGERS: And you object to the opening 11 of a new bar, and I don't want to put words in your 12 mouth, but what's the reason you object to the opening 13 of the bar? 14 MR. JONES: There's too many people, and 15 there's not enough parking spots in the neighborhood. 16 Because the capacity is between 225, 250. 17 MS. RODGERS: Okay. So if the parking 18 situation were resolved, you wouldn't have any 19 objection? 20 MR. JONES: Well, even the guy next door to 21 me, he owns the Trigram Company, and I talked to him 22 already. He charged me -- I pay insurance to park in 23 the lot, so if -- When I use the lot, it's pretty busy 24 then. 25 MS. RODGERS: You pay insurance? 00055 1 MR. JONES: Liability, yes. I pay liability 2 for my customers, yes. 3 MS. RODGERS: Okay. But if there were some 4 other way to resolve the parking issue by moving 5 people around, just commuting people or shuttling 6 people, you wouldn't have any objection? 7 MR. JONES: I still have an objection to -- 8 Well, I'm sick of my bar, to tell you the truth, but 9 I'm -- 10 MS. RODGERS: Pardon me? Are you sick of 11 your bar? 12 MR. JONES: Yes, I am, ma'am, but I'm there 13 now. 14 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Jones. We 16 still have a number of other -- Can I see a show of 17 hands of individuals who have yet to testify here in 18 opposition? One, two, three, four, five, six. Okay. 19 We have a problem with -- 20 ALDERMAN GORDON: Mr. Chairman, can I make 21 a recommendation? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon, yes. 23 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. Given that 24 we generally have a tenor of what the objections 25 would be, if the next residents would just state 00056 1 their names and addresses and their opposition to 2 the establishment, that would suffice for us. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Right. 4 ALDERMAN GORDON: And then Miss Rodgers can, 5 in fact, question you on any issues that she may have, 6 but that would help to expedite this. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And I think that 8 that's absolutely correct. I do want to say if there 9 is anything different that you can add, please feel 10 free to provide that, if you have additional 11 information that has not yet been brought forward. 12 Otherwise if you substantially agree with what has 13 been stated, if you could just state your name, your 14 address, your objection to the license, and then we'll 15 move forward from there. Sir, go ahead, please. 16 MR. WILLIAMS: My name is Anthony Williams. 17 I live at 220 North 34th Street, and I am opposed to 18 granting them a liquor license. 19 One of the things that wasn't previously 20 brought up was they were talking about the patio area 21 outside of the club, as using that as having access 22 to that, too, and I think that would create more 23 problems, so I just want to make sure that's also 24 addressed; patrons being outside and the noise and 25 the stuff that it would create for the neighborhood. 00057 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Miss Rodgers? 2 MS. RODGERS: I'm not sure I got your 3 address. 4 MR. WILLIAMS: It's 220 North 34th Street. 5 MS. RODGERS: 220 North 34th? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: That's correct. 7 MS. RODGERS: Okay. I have no questions of 8 Mr. Williams. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Williams. 10 MR. CRAWFORD: I'm Daniel Crawford, 11 C-r-a-w-f-o-r-d. I live at 3125 West Michigan 12 Street. I own the Ark Inn, 235 North 36th Street. 13 And basically, Miss Rodgers, you're making it very 14 difficult to gain support. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Crawford, I don't want 16 to -- 17 MR. CRAWFORD: Okay. I think -- 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, sir. This is not an 19 issue of personalities, and -- 20 MR. CRAWFORD: I understand. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- I prefer that you address 22 your testimony to the committee and not to counsel, 23 please. 24 MR. CRAWFORD: Okay. Well, everything that 25 was said I agree, and it effects my business. T.J. 00058 1 and I, we have a good working relationship. He has 2 people that he's kicked out of his bar because of 3 drugs, because of prostitution. Same thing with my 4 bar. He calls me up, I call him up. Now adding a 5 third bar, which is -- Can I ask a question? Is there 6 going to be dancing? Is there going to be -- How many 7 people does this bar hold, 200 people? I just want to 8 ask a question. That's what it's going to hold, 200 9 people? 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We can get that, and -- 11 Miss Bender, do you have an indication as to what the 12 capacity of the club is? 13 MS. BENDER: I believe the current capacity 14 is about 199. 15 MR. CRAWFORD: That's quite a bit for a 16 little neighborhood. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And so you are aware, to 18 answer the question, because it is part of what is 19 before us, they applied for a tavern dance and a 20 cabaret license that would allow dancing, so -- 21 MR. CRAWFORD: Right. There's just no room, 22 no parking. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Crawford, anything 24 additional? 25 MR. CRAWFORD: No, that's it. 00059 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 2 Miss Rodgers? 3 MR. CRAWFORD: Oh, and another thing. The 4 reason why there was only a few people at that first 5 meeting, as Mr. Murphy said, that was Valentine's Day. 6 I would have been there, there would have been a lot 7 of other people there, also, but because of the day, 8 people were out. That's it. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers? 10 MS. RODGERS: Mr. Crawford, you own Ark Inn; 11 is that right? 12 MR. CRAWFORD: Yes. 13 MS. RODGERS: And you object to another bar 14 coming into the neighborhood. 15 MR. CRAWFORD: No. That bar I object to, 16 not another bar. That one. 17 MS. RODGERS: And that one -- Do you know 18 Miss McPike or Mr. Jones? 19 MR. CRAWFORD: No, they don't know me. They 20 haven't seen me; they haven't, you know, talked to me. 21 MS. RODGERS: But you're saying that you 22 wouldn't mind another bar, you just object to this 23 bar? 24 MR. CRAWFORD: Yes. 25 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 00060 1 MR. CRAWFORD: There's problems. 2 MS. RODGERS: Pardon me? 3 MR. CRAWFORD: There's problems at that 4 corner. 5 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Do you live in the 6 area, Mr. Crawford? 7 MR. CRAWFORD: Yes, I do. 8 MS. RODGERS: Do you live at 34 -- 9 MR. CRAWFORD: 3125 West Michigan Street. 10 MS. RODGERS: What's the address of Ark Inn? 11 MR. CRAWFORD: 235 North 36th. About four 12 blocks away. 13 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Now, you've indicated 14 that I'm making it difficult for anybody to support 15 this bar? 16 MR. CRAWFORD: Yes, you are. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers, I don't -- 18 I don't know that that's relevant to the issue. 19 MS. RODGERS: I just want to ask, if it's 20 okay, a follow-up question. Are you saying it's 21 because I'm asking questions? 22 MR. CRAWFORD: No, it's the kind of 23 questions you're asking, not the questions. It's 24 the type. 25 MS. RODGERS: Do you work someplace other 00061 1 than at Ark Inn? 2 MR. CRAWFORD: No, that's my sole income. 3 My wife works, though, for the county. 4 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Thank you, 5 Mr. Crawford. 6 MR. CRAWFORD: Okay. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir? 8 MR. BREE: My name is Joe Bree, B-r-e-e. 9 I'm here on behalf of my parents, who could not be 10 here today, who live at 3532 West Mount Vernon. 11 MS. RODGERS: I'm going to -- 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Bree, I know where Miss 13 Rodgers is going to go. You cannot provide testimony 14 that is not direct testimony. Unless Mr. Schrimpf is 15 going to correct me here, you will be providing 16 hearsay testimony that is not allowed by this 17 committee. 18 MR. BREE: Okay. Then with that I would 19 like to provide some historical information because I 20 lived in the house on 3532 West Mount Vernon. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf? 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: That would be appropriate. 23 MS. RODGERS: I would object because that's 24 not related to what's historical. First of all, we 25 don't know how long he's lived there, -- or how long 00062 1 it's been since he's lived there to make it 2 historical, because he's talking -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll go there. 4 MS. RODGERS: All right. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Bree, where do you 6 presently reside? 7 MR. BREE: I currently live at 3160 South 8 9th Place, south side of Milwaukee. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And how long has it been 10 since you've lived in the neighborhood here? 11 MR. BREE: Since I've lived in the 12 neighborhood, 1991. 13 MS. RODGERS: I object to any further 14 testimony from this witness. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf? 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: Was the Cozy Corner operating 17 in 1991? 18 MR. BREE: No, it was not. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's a little tangential, 20 Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Bree, I 22 appreciate your coming down. This item will be held 23 over. You'll have to -- I think that it would be 24 time to talk to Alderman Murphy to see if, at that 25 point, the committee will allow your parents, should 00063 1 they be available, to come forward here, but there 2 are difficulties. 3 We've heard a substantial amount of 4 testimony. I don't know that your providing 5 anything else through secondhand testimony will 6 add anything to the record at this point, and we're 7 not allowed legally to take that. So I hope you 8 understand. 9 We appreciate your coming down, but that 10 is the parameters that we are set by legally. And 11 I apologize for that, but that is a reality. 12 MR. BREE: So for the record, my parents 13 oppose it. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you, sir. 15 Ma'am, please go ahead. 16 MS. RICK: My name is Roxanne Rick, R-i-c-k. 17 I live at 3412 West Park Hill Avenue. I am opposed to 18 this because the overflow parking does come to my side 19 of the street. I have been blocked in my driveway 20 where they park. They'll come right down Park Hill 21 there, and they'll park right in front of my house. 22 They'll park in front of my driveway. And the 23 fighting and the noise, I can hear it right across 24 the street. My bedroom window is directly across 25 from their front door, so I strictly oppose this. 00064 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Questions by 2 committee? Miss Rodgers? 3 MS. RODGERS: Miss Rick, have you met or 4 talked with Miss McPike? 5 MS. RICK: I was at the February 14th 6 meeting, and they did not try to talk to each one of 7 us or -- 8 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 9 MS. RICK: They talked to us in a group, but 10 we have not -- On our side of the street we have not 11 been contacted by them at all, because we were told 12 at the meeting that they are in Alderman Murphy's 13 district; that they do not have to contact us because 14 we are in Alderman Henningsen's district. 15 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And you're on Park 16 Hill? 17 MS. RICK: Park Hill. 18 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And that's how many 19 blocks away? One block, two blocks? 20 MS. RICK: The tavern would be on the 21 corner, right across the street is the station, gas 22 station. My house is right next door to that gas 23 station, right by the alley. So anything that happens 24 at that tavern, I get affected by it. 25 MS. RODGERS: But you're in Alderman 00065 1 Henningsen's district? 2 MS. RICK: Yes, I am. 3 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Nothing further. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. Ma'am, 5 please go ahead. 6 MS. THORNTON: My name is Kathleen Thornton, 7 T-h-o-r-n-t-o-n. I live at 206 North 36th Street. 8 I'm a constituent of Alderman Murphy, and yes, I have 9 past complaints from the former people that had the 10 bars. I'm not a licensed or certified fortuneteller, 11 but I can tell you that anytime there has been -- that 12 that bar has been open, that we've had a parking 13 situation. We've had litter situations, we've had 14 clusters of people congregating on the corner right 15 next door to my home after hours, and for lengthy 16 times and noisy, and playing their music. 17 And I've found also like the litter to be 18 of a condom nature which would be, you know, not the 19 conduct I would expect to have in my neighborhood. 20 I don't see any real beneficial asset to the community 21 by having that place open, in my neighborhood, anyway, 22 and that's pretty much all I have to say. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Miss Thornton. 24 Questions by committee? Miss Rodgers? 25 MS. RODGERS: Yes. Maybe just one. 00066 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Go ahead. 2 MS. RODGERS: Miss Rick, -- 3 MS. THORNTON: Thornton. 4 MS. RODGERS: That was the last person, 5 wasn't it? Sorry, Miss Thornton. I do have it 6 written down. You're -- and help me out if I'm 7 mischaracterizing your statement. Your statement 8 basically is you don't want a bar, mainly not in my 9 backyard? Is that right? 10 MS. THORNTON: That's correct. 11 MS. RODGERS: Okay. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Others? If 13 you're in opposition? 14 MR. GREENE: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, 15 Committee. Thank you for staying so long and not 16 breaking lunch. My name is Bob Greene with an E. 17 My home address is 534 North 33rd. I'm executive 18 director for Merrill Park Neighborhood Association. 19 I'll make this brief. First of all, I 20 stipulate I have met the people. I was at the meeting 21 with Alderman Murphy that convened. Pleasant people, 22 easy enough to talk to. 23 I would ask this committee, and you, 24 Mr. Chairman, to consider what we're here for and what 25 we're talking about: Number one is parking. There's 00067 1 no parking to the south of the building other than for 2 the tenants upstairs. 35th Street, there is the bus 3 stop, and then Trigram that you've heard a lot about. 4 East side of the street, you have the gas 5 station with the entryways, you have a vacant lot on 6 34th and Mount Vernon that's contaminated. It's a 7 former Clark site. Quite frankly, there is no 8 parking, and this committee's been through enough 9 license hearings to understand that the concerns of 10 the citizens is parking, the saturation. 11 You've heard from two owners, and they do 12 get along with the neighborhood, but parking is the 13 issue, and it's already at best past tolerable. When 14 they have nights in the taverns and that, it's a race 15 to go out and remove your car to get there. Another 16 199 people, assuming two to a car, there would be 17 another hundred cars there in an area that can't take 18 on another automobile for parking. 19 Also we want to talk about them asking 20 residents, have you talked to them and this. They 21 have kind of already demonstrated to the neighborhood 22 and the community, by opening the bar illegally, not 23 only disrespect for our laws, but also disrespect for 24 the community. 25 And they talk about past performance with 00068 1 other bars. Let's look at what foot they started on 2 now. And I understand counselor has a job to do and 3 that, but she doesn't seem to know the lay of the land 4 from previous testimony, and it's important that, 5 under these three items, I think that -- I would love 6 to see a call for a denial or postponement of the 7 license until this can be resolved. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: One question for you, Bob, 9 and I think that it's clear to say that all the 10 committee members do know you from your work with the 11 Merrill Park Neighborhood Association. Are you here 12 as an individual, or are you on behalf of the Merrill 13 Park Neighbor Association on this item? 14 MR. GREENE: I'm empowered by the 15 organization itself, by the board, to act on such 16 matters. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Has there been any 18 formal vote on the part of the organization on 19 this particular license? 20 MR. GREENE: We have voted as a board on 21 certain issues that -- This was not -- Issues of this 22 type are basically based on the number of complaints, 23 where we convey our support either way on most 24 matters. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And does this particular 00069 1 establishment fall within the parameters of the 2 Merrill Park Neighborhood Association? 3 MR. GREENE: We are proactive with an 4 organization called the Hilltoppers. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 6 MR. GREENE: We've had a longstanding 7 relationship with them, and we've helped to 8 collaborate on various things. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So is it across the street 10 from where you would normally -- 11 MR. GREENE: Our boundaries technically go 12 to 37th Street, but Hilltop actually goes to 35th to 13 39th. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So there's an overlap is 15 what you're saying. 16 MR. GREENE: Correct. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Are there any other 18 questions by committee at this point? Miss Rodgers? 19 MS. RODGERS: Perhaps just one. I'm 20 not really clear on your answer regarding your 21 association. Are you here representing the 22 association? 23 MR. GREENE: Well, as the Mr. Chairman 24 said, I am affiliated with the organization as 25 executive director. I want a disclosure on that. 00070 1 And the answer you're looking for is, yes, I am here 2 to vein along with the residents from the area, 3 Merrill Park and the Hilltoppers. 4 MS. RODGERS: So your organization had a 5 vote on this particular organization? 6 MR. GREENE: I can see where you're 7 confused, Counselor. No, we did not have a vote. 8 We have a board meeting tonight. 9 MS. RODGERS: You have a board meeting 10 tonight. 11 MR. GREENE: Correct. 12 MS. RODGERS: So your board has not voted 13 specifically on this application, is what you're 14 saying; is that correct? 15 MR. GREENE: Well, not on the specific 16 application, but we do look at a reduction in 17 establishments in the area because of saturation 18 issues. It's been a problem on the west side for 19 some time, much as the social service situation. 20 WCS recently had problems over there. 21 MS. RODGERS: But you're aware that 22 saturation is not an issue in this particular 23 application. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Counsel, it is cited for 25 concentration of alcohol outlets. 00071 1 MS. RODGERS: Oh, all right. Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're welcome. Okay. 3 Anyone else in opposition to the license? Okay. We 4 will proceed. Are there individuals here who are in 5 favor of the license? 6 You may now come forward. Again, the same 7 parameters. Please provide your name and your home 8 address, and then any information as to why you 9 support the license before us. 10 MS. DANIELS: Hi. My name is Shirley 11 Daniels. I am not in the district, but I'm here to 12 give my support. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Daniels, for the 14 record, we still need your -- 15 MS. DANIELS: My address is 2533 West Auer 16 Avenue, and I was recently one of the board members, 17 but I stepped down to be a worker, so -- But I am here 18 just to let you know that I am for this bar. 19 We are doing all we can to help to -- to try 20 to get along with the neighbors, to try to correct the 21 things that were put in place before we were there. 22 That's all I've been hearing, is that the previous 23 owners, or the previous things that had been done. 24 We are doing our best, and we welcome the 25 neighborhood to give us suggestions. And like I said, 00072 1 we're doing our best, and I think it's wrong not to 2 just give us a chance, so -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Other questions by 4 committee at this point? Alderman Murphy, anything? 5 Miss Rodgers? 6 MS. RODGERS: Yes. Now, you indicated that 7 you were in fact on the board previously? 8 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 9 MS. RODGERS: And did your board have a 10 meeting at some point? 11 MS. DANIELS: Yes, we did. 12 MS. RODGERS: Was that in approximately July 13 of 2002? 14 MS. DANIELS: Yes, it was. 15 MS. RODGERS: I mean you've had other 16 meetings, but that's one meeting in particular I'd 17 like to call to mind. 18 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 19 MS. RODGERS: Okay. At that meeting did you 20 decide -- consciously decide to -- 21 MS. DANIELS: Step down. 22 MS. RODGERS: Resign? 23 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 24 MS. RODGERS: And what was the reason you 25 decided to do that? 00073 1 MS. DANIELS: Well, we were informed that it 2 was wrong, something -- it would be wrong for us to be 3 in that position. 4 MS. RODGERS: Wrong in that you were getting 5 a grant; is that correct? 6 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 7 MS. RODGERS: And the grant was to conduct 8 educational sessions; is that correct? 9 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 10 MS. RODGERS: And those educational sessions 11 were related to AIDS and HIV; is that correct? 12 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 13 MS. RODGERS: And did you step down because 14 you wanted to become an employee? 15 MS. DANIELS: Yes, yes. And I'm also -- I 16 do HIV/AIDS counseling. 17 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And that's what you do 18 as your profession; is that correct? 19 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 20 MS. RODGERS: And the grantors made it a 21 condition of your employment to give seminars, that 22 you not be an employee or affiliated with the Charles 23 D Productions; is that correct? 24 MS. DANIELS: Yes, that is correct. 25 MS. RODGERS: And so you decided to step 00074 1 down as a result of that? 2 MS. DANIELS: Yes, yes. To clarify, I am 3 not only -- that is not my profession, but I do do 4 that in the capacity for Charles D Productions. 5 MS. RODGERS: Okay. And what is your 6 profession? 7 MS. DANIELS: I am an Urban Force 8 Specialist for the City of Milwaukee. 9 MS. RODGERS: Okay. All right. Thank you 10 very much. 11 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Mr. Chairman. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman? 13 ALDERMAN CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on one second. 14 Alderman Murphy asked for acknowledgement. 15 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Yes. Miss Daniels, were 16 you present on New Year's Eve at this establishment? 17 MS. DANIELS: Yes, I was. 18 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Did you pay a $15 cover 19 charge? 20 MS. DANIELS: No, I didn't. 21 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Were you aware of a $15 22 cover charge? You're under oath just for the record. 23 MS. DANIELS: And I understand that I'm 24 under oath, and I really don't need you to tell me 25 that, but I was aware. 00075 1 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Okay. So there was a $15 2 cover charge. 3 MS. DANIELS: I was aware. 4 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Okay. Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That is an affirmative, Miss 6 Daniels? 7 MS. DANIELS: Yes, it is. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf? 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 Ms. Daniels, are you related to Charles Daniels in any 11 way? 12 MS. DANIELS: Yes. Charles is my son. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And is there a reason 14 why Charles Daniels is no longer the president of the 15 organization? 16 MS. DANIELS: You know what? I would -- 17 MS. RODGERS: I want to -- 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on, hold on. 19 Mr. Schrimpf, I believe that counsel's indicated that 20 Mr. Daniels may appear at one other time, and I'm 21 going to rule at this point that he can provide that 22 testimony himself, as opposed to -- 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- as opposed to our hearing 25 it from her. 00076 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's fine. Now, with 2 respect to the grant to -- I believe it's Charles D 3 Productions? 4 MS. DANIELS: Uh-hmm. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. Does Charles D 6 Productions, incidentally, take its name from Charles 7 Daniels? 8 MS. DANIELS: You know what? All those 9 questions that you're asking me about Charles D 10 Productions, I would rather you address those 11 questions to him. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Daniels, I'm going to 13 ask that you answer that because you were a part of 14 this corporation. I think that you can substantiate 15 that in your own record here. 16 MS. DANIELS: Could you repeat the question, 17 please? 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Court reporter, read it back, 19 please. 20 (Pending question read back.) 21 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. And Charles D 23 Productions is going to operate, as I understand it, 24 as an AIDS counseling kind of service; is that 25 correct? 00077 1 MS. DANIELS: I can only address what I do. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And what do you do? 3 MS. DANIELS: What I do is that when there 4 is a need to speak to someone about AIDS or HIV, I am 5 there. I am available for that individual. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: And is that operation going 7 to take place at 3500 West Park Hill Avenue, the 8 location of the premises? 9 MS. RODGERS: I would object. She's already 10 testified that she's no longer a part -- 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Schrimpf, I think 12 that those questions are very much germane. We will 13 have a continuation of this particular hearing, and I 14 think that those questions may be more appropriately 15 questioned to Miss Eloise McPike. 16 As somebody who has indicated she is no 17 longer part of this corporation, I think that that -- 18 as long as she is not on the list of individual 19 applicants here, -- 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. But I understood, 21 Mr. Chairman, she's now an employee, and that's why 22 she's no longer in the operation, and so I'm wondering 23 where she's going to perform these services as an 24 employee. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I think that that's -- 00078 1 And you made a valid point here, and Miss Daniels, I 2 will ask you to answer that if you can. 3 MS. DANIELS: Well, to be honest with you, 4 I would have to talk to Miss McPike, and we will still 5 have to discuss where these -- where this is going to 6 be taking place. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: I see. So you don't know 8 where it's going to be taking place? 9 MS. DANIELS: No, because we have this on 10 the agenda, and this is first. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. Thank you. That's all 12 I have. 13 MS. RODGERS: So just to clarify, Miss 14 Daniels, you are in the role of a consultant. They 15 call you when they need you to take on a particular 16 education session; is that how it goes? 17 MS. DANIELS: Yes. 18 MS. RODGERS: All right, so -- I didn't know 19 how to ask you that without just asking it. So, I 20 have no further questions at this time. Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Are there any 22 other individuals in support here? 23 MS. BARNETT: Hi. My name is Janice 24 Barnett. I live at 4344 North 29th Street. 25 MS. RODGERS: Miss Barnett, the spelling of 00079 1 your last name, please? 2 MS. BARNETT: B-a-r-n-e-t-t. 3 MS. RODGERS: Thank you. Please go ahead. 4 MS. BARNETT: Hi. I used to be in Charles D 5 Productions. I resigned, so I can't get paid from the 6 organization through grants. I heard that -- someone 7 was speaking that there was a party there that night, 8 but it was a private party, okay? Maybe the club was 9 not supposed to be open, but the understanding that I 10 get is as long as you're not serving liquor, you can 11 have a party and you can charge at the door. There's 12 no law against that; at least that's what I know. So 13 it was a party given there. 14 And I can understand that you were upset 15 that there was people parked on the lot, but then I 16 understand that you came to the door with a bad 17 attitude, sir. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Barnett, first off, 19 I'm going to ask that you not engage members of the 20 audience. Secondly, that you provide testimony to 21 the committee and direct it to the committee. 22 MS. BARNETT: Sorry about that. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please proceed if there's 24 anything else. 25 MS. RODGERS: No, that's it, unless anyone 00080 1 has any questions for me. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 3 Okay. Alderman Murphy, anything? 4 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Miss Rodgers? 6 MS. RODGERS: Do you recall approximately 7 the time frame that you resigned from the Charles D 8 Productions board? 9 MS. BARNETT: July 18th, around there. We 10 had a meeting. Matter of fact, it was Sunday evening. 11 We usually have our meetings around 6:00 every Sunday, 12 especially during pageant times. 13 MS. RODGERS: Okay. All right. Thank you. 14 MS. BARNETT: You're welcome. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any other 16 individuals here to testify in favor? Okay. I think 17 we've reached the point of impasse here. We will 18 obviously continue this testimony here three weeks 19 from now on April 1st. 20 So at this point here, I will have Alderman 21 Dudzik move to hold this particular item, and there 22 being no objection, so ordered. Again, this 23 particular item will be taken up, and the item will 24 be continued on April 1st. 25 MS. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 00081 1 MR. COPELAND: Mr. Chairman, if I might. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. Go ahead, 3 Mr. Copeland. 4 MR. COPELAND: April 1st is the general 5 date. We might have to look at a special meeting 6 because we are getting backed up with other 7 applications. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And we'll just say for the 9 record that any individuals who would have been here 10 today will be properly noticed if there is a different 11 time and date, including Miss Rodgers. 12 MS. RODGERS: Mr. Chairman? 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Miss Rodgers. 14 MS. RODGERS: If it's not April 1st, then 15 what's the next date? 16 MR. COPELAND: We would have to sit down and 17 look at the calendar. 18 MS. RODGERS: But what's the next regularly 19 scheduled date? 20 MR. COPELAND: The next regular schedule is 21 April 1st. 22 MS. RODGERS: I mean after April 1st. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The one after that would be 24 the 22nd, I believe. 25 MS. RODGERS: The 22nd? So, I don't know, 00082 1 is there a problem where -- If we can't make it the 2 21st -- or I mean make it the 1st, to make it the 3 21st, rather than calling a special meeting? 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I think that that's probably 5 something that could be worked out with the Licensing 6 Division and Alderman Murphy, so -- 7 MS. RODGERS: Okay. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you everyone for your 9 patience. 10 * * * 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 00083 1 2 STATE OF WISCONSIN) ) ss: 3 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 4 5 6 I, DONNA GULCZYNSKI, of Milwaukee Reporters 7 Associated, Inc., 5120 West Bluemound Road, Milwaukee, 8 Wisconsin, certify that the foregoing transcript, 9 consisting of pages 2 through 82 inclusive, is a 10 full and complete transcript of the proceedings taken 11 in this cause. 12 13 14 15 16 17 Donna Gulczynski - Court Reporter 18 19 20 21 22 Dated this day of , 2003 23 Milwaukee, Wisconsin