00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 UTILITIES & LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of a Class "B" Tavern Renewal Application for: 6 MERRY JANE K. KUSZ, 7 "MERRY J'S, INC." 5100 W. Howard Avenue 8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 10 ALD. FREDRICK GORDON - Acting Chairman ALD. JAMES BOHL - Vice-Chairman 11 ALD. JEFFREY PAWLINSKI ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK 12 LICENSING DIVISION by JAMES COPELAND 13 NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE 14 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SERGEANT JOHN HOGAN OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 15 16 17 Proceedings had and testimony given in 18 the above-entitled matter, before the UTILITIES & 19 LICENSES COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 20 the 1st day of April, 2003. 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN GORDON: In the 11th 3 Aldermanic District, Merry Kusz, Agent for Merry 4 J's, Incorporated, Class "B" Tavern renewal 5 application for "Merry's" at 5100 West North - - 6 West Howard Avenue. 7 Raise your right hand, please. Do you 8 solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole 9 truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 10 God? 11 THE APPLICANT: Yes, sir. 12 CHAIRMAN GORDON: You were notified by 13 the license - - notified that your license 14 application could be denied based on information 15 from the police department. 16 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 17 CHAIRMAN GORDON: DNS? 18 DNS: No objection. 19 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Health? 20 HEALTH: No objection. 21 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Sergeant. 22 SERGEANT HOGAN: You can see from the 23 police attachment there has been a disposition 24 added to the incident number 11, which was prior 25 to the last renewal of the license, and that was 00003 1 a sale to underage and presence of underage, 2 which the bartender was cited. That was in a 3 police - - underage police aide sting operation. 4 And there was an incident in April, 5 2002 in which, again, officers tried to do a 6 police underage sting operation. This time the 7 20 year old police aide was stopped at the door 8 and denied entrance by the bouncer because he 9 wasn't old enough. However, accompanying 10 officers found what appeared to be underage 11 people on the premises. They checked. Found a 12 20 year old female who appeared to be highly 13 intoxicated. Found a 20 year old male who 14 appeared to be slightly intoxicated. And got 15 some uncalled for comments by patrons on the 16 premises, and officers, due to their loud, 17 boisterous nature of the patrons, closed the 18 tavern, and upon further investigation found that 19 video machine, dartboards and jukebox didn't have 20 valid permits. The officers indicated in their 21 report that they contacted the licensee by phone, 22 and she was argumentative and uncooperative with 23 them. Citations were issued, and there was a 24 finding of guilty on the licensee on presence of 25 underage as a licensee responsibility and the 00004 1 permits required for the amusement machines. 2 And then there was another incident in 3 March - - or correction - - February of 2003 4 about 2:30 in the morning where an altercation 5 between a couple of patrons, one got punched by 6 the other, and it was an incident report only. 7 That's all. 8 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Questions, comments 9 by committee? 10 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 11 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Alderman. 12 ALDERMAN BOHL: I would move to make 13 the entire police report part of our record. 14 CHAIRMAN GORDON: You've heard the 15 motion of Alderman Bohl. Are there any 16 objections? Hearing none, so ordered. 17 ALDERMAN BOHL: I do have a question 18 for Ms. - - Ms. Kusz, and that is relating to the 19 incident in the police report for April 26 of 20 2002, I noticed that when the police responded it 21 indicates that you were argumentative and 22 uncooperative. I also note that from previous 23 items in the police report there seems to be a 24 consistent pattern of, for example, 1/18/2001, 25 the applicant who became quite belligerent and 00005 1 stormed out of the bar, when police told her she 2 was going to receive a citation. To me, it's - - 3 it's concerning that in this police report I see 4 a number of instances of underage, a number of 5 instances where there's rowdiness and fighting, 6 and an apparent uncooperative nature by you. And 7 I just would like you to respond to those. 8 THE APPLICANT: That's not true. On 9 the 13th I was contacted. I was at home in bed. 10 I was contacted by my bartender. When I asked to 11 speak to the police officer in charge, I asked 12 what his name was and what his badge number was, 13 and he says, "All you need to know is that the 14 Milwaukee Police are here and you'll be contacted 15 tomorrow," and he handed the phone back to my 16 bartender. That's what was said. He refused to 17 give me badge numbers. He refused to give me 18 names. He didn't tell me the nature of why they 19 were there. My bartender called me. I have a 20 tape of that incident that night. 21 The underage that was found on the 22 property, it is on tape that her I.D. was checked 23 by my bartender. The police were - - When they 24 came in, the way that the police report is stated 25 and the actual events that happened, I've got the 00006 1 proof on the videotape. I have a 24 hour 2 surveillance camera in my bar. You can view it 3 for yourself, because what it's going to do is 4 it's going to clear up a lot of questions, a lot 5 of the - - as far as the nature of the crowd. 6 I've got a Friday night softball team which has 7 been in my sponsorship since 1984. So now you 8 have a bunch of 40 year old men playing softball, 9 and there was a birthday party for one of a 10 police officer's in-law or cousin. So I do not 11 think, and I know for a fact, that the police 12 weren't bothered in the way that they handled, 13 you know, telling everybody to get out of the 14 bar. The officer and the family of the officer 15 that was there, off-duty at a birthday party, 16 which was, I think the person was 36 years old or 17 35 years old. So the - - the temperament, if 18 there was a comment made, I don't think it was 19 rowdyish. Mr. McCann viewed the tape. I also 20 took this to the District Attorney's office, 21 because the impression that the police report 22 gave and the actual case and event that did 23 happen at the bar, it gave the - - the whole bar 24 such a bad aura and just such a bad rap that I'm 25 glad I have this, because this is my only defense 00007 1 on, no, I've been there 20 years. I'm a 2 responsible business owner. The neighborhood is 3 a good neighborhood. My customers are good 4 neighbors. My customers are neighbors. The few 5 and far between problems that we have are, you 6 have it everywhere, and if I could bring peace on 7 Earth, I wouldn't be here, I'd be in Iraq, okay? 8 There - - People, even if intoxicated or not 9 intoxicated, you have road rage, you have 10 frustration, and that's everywhere in the world. 11 I do the best I can to keep control. My 12 bartenders are all - - have been there years. 13 They're experienced. Everybody knows everybody. 14 The times we have problems is when somebody comes 15 walking in that we've never seen before, and it 16 usually is unto themselves that it - - it's like, 17 I swear to God, talking to other bar owners, it's 18 like, what is there, a gang of people that just 19 go around to bars and start problems and then 20 leave, because it's, I swear to God, it's - - It 21 seems that that happens. I've been there 20 22 years, my track record. The only - - The way 23 this escalated within the past several years is 24 only due to the fact that I think I have upset 25 personally maybe some police officers, and this 00008 1 is their targeting and their harassment. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 3 THE APPLICANT: I've never filed a 4 complaint on that. I, you know, I - - I think 5 that what they came in to do in this instance 6 right here, perhaps they were looking for illegal 7 machines, which I do not have. The amusement 8 company that I have been with for 19 years, he 9 was surprised, and he was kind of upset, because 10 the employees that take these machines, like a 11 dartboard, we had problems. I have dart leagues, 12 so we have - - One of the boards wasn't 13 registering correctly, so what they do is they 14 have - - they come and switch them out, and the 15 CD player, I know had a license on the back, 16 because the owner of the novelty company spoke to 17 somebody. I don't know if it was a police 18 officer at the time. It was on the back. But 19 the officer said that he never moved this jukebox 20 to actually view the license. And, what was I 21 going to say? 22 CHAIRMAN GORDON: You said enough. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: I'm finished. 24 THE APPLICANT: Well, I'm trying - - 25 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Alderman Bohl, did 00009 1 you have any other questions? 2 THE APPLICANT: I'm trying to let 3 everybody understand the situation. 4 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Just a minute, ma'am. 5 No, we understand. We understand. We 6 understand. Mr. Schrimpf. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 Ma'am, with respect to incident number 11, you 9 were cited for presence of underage and sale to 10 underage, and those matters were dismissed. Is 11 that correct? 12 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. And then the 14 bartender was found guilty on both, sale to 15 underage and presence of underage. Is that 16 correct? 17 THE APPLICANT: That was the sting. 18 That was the sting by the Milwaukee Police 19 Department. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: I understand that, but 21 he was found guilty. 22 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. 24 THE APPLICANT: He no longer is 25 employed there. 00010 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. So, Mr. Berringer 2 is gone. 3 THE APPLICANT: Right. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. And then as 5 to the doorman, Mr. Michael Revelinski, did I 6 pronounce that correctly? 7 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: He was cited for 9 presence of minor prohibited, and that was 10 pending on March the 7th, 2002. Do you know what 11 happened to that? 12 THE APPLICANT: That was dropped. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: That was dropped? 14 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 16 Chairman. 17 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Any other questions 18 or comments. Alderman Dudzik. 19 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I've talked to Merry 20 and her husband. I've known her husband since I 21 was about five. And I've told them how concerned 22 I am about the escalation, and I felt that it 23 was, you know, prudent for them to come down here 24 and - - and make their case. I - - I did 25 indicate that there was a possibility of - - of 00011 1 some action by this committee against their 2 license, and I'm going to leave it up to the 3 committee as to the disposition. 4 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Any further questions 5 or comments by committee? Is there a request to 6 view the videotape, or are we satisfied with the 7 recitation by - - 8 THE APPLICANT: It's started right 9 where it needs to be started. 10 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Can I just get 11 clarification, Mr. Chairman, exactly what the 12 videotape is, again? 13 THE APPLICANT: The videotape is all 14 in, what it does is it - - 15 MR. KUSZ: Shows the seven police 16 officers coming in. When the officers came in, 17 the doorman was kicking out a minor that tried 18 getting in, and when they came in, he was - - we 19 were kicking - - Mike was kicking - - Was it 20 Mike? 21 THE APPLICANT: Yeah. 22 MR. KUSZ: Was kicking him out. 23 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: And what's the 24 date of that incident again? 25 THE APPLICANT: It's number - - 00012 1 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Thirteen? 2 THE APPLICANT: Yeah, number 13. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: So this is the incident 4 of April 26, 2002? 5 THE APPLICANT: Right. And that was 6 with the - - 7 MR. KUSZ: Which it shows the bartender 8 checking the I.D. It was a fake I.D. from the 9 girl, because he takes it back, and you can see 10 it clearly on there. He looked in the light, he 11 looked at her. He looked at it - - 12 THE APPLICANT: Well, she had a 13 Illinois - - 14 MR. KUSZ: She had a Illinois driver's 15 license. 16 THE APPLICANT: And when this was taken 17 to court, what it was is we - - I - - This is 18 stemming back to last year, and this is only 19 coming up again for my second license year only 20 because it was appealed. I appealed it. And 21 what they did was the novelty company in - - in 22 their - - Like they were - - They were kind of 23 sorry that the licenses on the dartboard, and it 24 was a duck hunter or a deer hunter video game, 25 and what they did was the novelty company was 00013 1 gracious enough to pay the ticket. We didn't 2 spend time in court as far as, he was leaving for 3 out of town - - 4 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Okay. Merry. 5 THE APPLICANT: - - so he just paid the 6 ticket for me, the games. 7 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: I guess - - I 8 guess I need some comfort or clarification or 9 commitment, I don't know, whatever you want to 10 call it. But I mean, you know, the track record 11 goes back to pretty much 1999. And I was just 12 going through this, you know, again this morning, 13 as I was reading it. And, you know, you've got 14 incidents where that 1999, that was a shooting 15 into the bar. Several fights in 1999. Another 16 one - - 17 THE APPLICANT: The shooting was, 18 again, a minor getting kicked out. 19 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: I understand. Let 20 me - - Please, let me finish. Let me finish. 21 But I - - What I'm saying is, and it goes to what 22 Alderman Dudzik has suggested, that there is a 23 concern about the escalation of the behavior, 24 and, you know, you can - - you can set aside the 25 underage situation, but I guess what I'm 00014 1 concerned about, as well, is the issues of the 2 fights. Here's another one in 2001 in July and 3 then again in August, there's another fight. And 4 another situation with loud boisterous behavior 5 with an underage patron in - - in August - - I'm 6 sorry - - in - - in April of last year. Here's 7 another fight that took place in February of this 8 year. And, you know, this - - It seems to be 9 this constant pattern of patrons getting out of 10 hand and getting into physical altercations. 11 What are you doing as a manager of the 12 establishment to stem the tide of this - - what 13 is apparently pretty consistent behavior? 14 THE APPLICANT: When we have problems, 15 we call the police. They come. They help. They 16 aid in our keeping control of the establishment, 17 and prior to this I've been open 15 years. So 18 nothing that I do and - - and my rules that I lay 19 down for my bartenders, the rules that I lay down 20 for my doormen, and just the overall theme and 21 - - and just the attitude and the tone in the bar 22 has never changed. I've never changed music on 23 the jukebox. It's always been the same. I don't 24 have rap. I don't have hardrock. I don't have 25 - - It's a mixture of country, soft rock, 00015 1 everything, anything. I - - I shy away from 2 certain types of music, you know, that's 3 associated with, you know, different acts, 4 violence, just crowd getting out of hand. I do 5 not have dancing in the bar. I - - I don't know 6 what the tone of society is. All I can say is I 7 ran my business for 19 years, and in the 15 years 8 prior to this situation happening, has been fine. 9 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Well, I guess I'm 10 just going to take issue with one thing that you 11 said earlier in your opening remarks, is that, 12 you know, a lot of places have these kinds of 13 problems. We had this debate on the Council 14 floor the other day. I think Alderman Nardelli 15 said it, and it's accurate, well over 85 percent, 16 maybe even more than 90 percent of all the 1300 17 liquor license establishments in the city don't 18 have any problems. But, you know, the only 19 people that appear before the committee are 20 people that are new applicants or applicants that 21 had problems with their licenses. So, you know, 22 we're only seeing, you know, a few hundred per 23 year. And I guess I need to find out from you 24 specifically, you know, what are you doing? I 25 mean, you - - you talked about the music and that 00016 1 kind of thing. But, you know, the fighting. I 2 mean, that's a pretty big concern. I mean, some 3 of this stuff, you know, people getting smashed 4 in the face with a - - with a beer mug, and 5 somebody getting hit over the head with a beer 6 bottle, I mean - - 7 THE APPLICANT: I - - 8 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Let me finish, 9 please. But I guess, you know what I'm saying 10 is, the - - the concern for us is the public 11 safety, and you're dealing with a situation in 12 which while serious with beer bottles being 13 smashed over people's heads, you know, at least 14 nobody's died. 15 THE APPLICANT: That was my husband. 16 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Well, at least 17 nobody's dying. 18 THE APPLICANT: It was my husband. It 19 was - - 20 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Right. I mean, 21 you're going to get into a situation eventually 22 where those kinds of things begin to get even 23 more out of control, because someone's going to 24 smash a beer bottle over somebody's head, the 25 next thing you know somebody's going to pull out 00017 1 a gun. I mean, because of the aggressive 2 behavior of sometimes the way fights - - fights 3 can get out of hand, I - - I guess what I want to 4 know from you is what commitment are you going to 5 give the committee and what specifically have you 6 done at the bar to avoid that kind of situation 7 in the future, because just in the past two years 8 now there has been a lot of that kind of behavior 9 and something's changed. If you had the bar for 10 19 years, what's gone on since 1999? What's 11 changed? 12 THE APPLICANT: Society, children, 13 attitudes. I - - I wish I had the answer. 14 There's nothing that I'm doing different. 15 There's more violence everywhere in the world, 16 everywhere. If - - If I had the answer, even at 17 stores, on freeways, you know, driving - - 18 driving home, driving to work, you just have an 19 attitude. I - - I wish I was psychic. If I 20 would know that somebody's going to walk through 21 my front door and give me a problem a half hour 22 later, I would never let him in. I - - This is 23 my job. This is my responsibility. This is my 24 livelihood. I take this serious. I'm there. 25 There's times when the police have reported that 00018 1 I'm not there. I am there. I haven't been on a 2 vacation since last year for ten years before 3 that. I don't leave the country. I don't leave 4 the state. We don't have a place up north. 5 We're home. So, as far as the - - the targeting 6 and the - - just the microscope and over my - - 7 my business, I have it on tape. We do our job. 8 We card people. We take things under control. 9 The bars that have fights, some of the bars that 10 aren't appearing in front of you, are the bars 11 that take - - take care of it themselves, clean 12 the mess up, the police aren't called, and nobody 13 is the lesserwise. 14 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Let me ask you. Do 15 you have security on the premises? 16 THE APPLICANT: Not every day. I've 17 got - - What do you mean as far as security? 18 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Well, do you have a 19 bouncer or security guard? 20 THE APPLICANT: Just on weekends for 21 carding I.D.s The - - The bar capacity is about 22 80 and very, very rarely we do have that 23 capacity. This Friday night in particular, like 24 I said was a softball team and then there was a 25 birthday party. So in that respect in that - - 00019 1 And that night wasn't even that busy, either. In 2 other words, my bar is not wall to wall packed 3 crammed. The bartender and then a bouncer and 4 then we have regular customers that also pitch 5 in. Customers will bring up glasses and - - and 6 ashtrays from tables. They'll wipe off tables. 7 It's - - The nucleus of my bar and my business, 8 the people are wonderful. It's the one or two 9 few instances that people come in that nobody 10 knows, nobody's seen before. If they come in 11 intoxicated, we do refuse to serve them, because 12 it is illegal. So we've asked people to leave, 13 and if you ask people to leave and they're in 14 that state from a different, whether it's a party 15 at a home or a party at another bar, they - - the 16 attitude is they're going to take it out on 17 somebody. So we've already been, you know, not 18 really a problem, but it's where you ask somebody 19 to leave and they get belligerent with you. So 20 we do everything in our power that we can. 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 22 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Alderman. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: I just have one follow- 24 up question for - - for Ms. Kusz, and that is you 25 indicated that - - that on the tape that you have 00020 1 here that it provides the answers to what 2 occurred on April 26 of 2002. The question I 3 have for you is - - And you stated that you 4 provided a copy of the tape and met with - - with 5 D.A. Mike McCann. 6 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: Why was there still a 8 guilty adjudication to Mr. James Berringer who 9 - - who was your bartender to the sale of 10 underage? 11 THE APPLICANT: Okay. When we went to 12 court with this, we could not get - - They put 13 the - - the tape in. They brought out the TV and 14 the VCR. Three different officers tried to get 15 the tape in the VCR to work. They didn't know 16 how to put the channel on the TV. Judge 17 Grambling gave us five minutes to get to the 18 point of where the tape started for any 19 information. Two or three different officers 20 tried getting the tape to coincide with the 21 television. In other words, the tape started 22 running but the TV channel wasn't on. So the 23 Judge said, you know what, forget this. You're 24 not going to waste my time anymore, you know, 25 this is - - I'll give you five minutes. The five 00021 1 minutes went past. And he says, okay, and then 2 he just made the ruling. 3 ALDERMAN BOHL: Were you - - Were you 4 represented at - - 5 THE APPLICANT: No, I didn't have an 6 attorney. 7 ALDERMAN BOHL: - - at the hearing? 8 Because if it reflects on your license. 9 THE APPLICANT: I know. I know. 10 ALDERMAN BOHL: I would have asked for 11 the case to be adjourned. 12 THE APPLICANT: I know. All of - - 13 ALDERMAN BOHL: And - - And where you 14 could - - where you could have provided that. 15 Because otherwise, that reflects. That - - That 16 officially, because that's - - that's a guilty 17 judication. That represents the second underage 18 citation in one calendar year. 19 THE APPLICANT: I know. That's why I 20 have the tape is because the - - the first 21 instance was a sting that was initiated by the 22 police department. And we never - - 23 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Well, let's do this. 24 I asked a question about five minutes ago 25 relative to, does anyone want to see this 00022 1 videotape? 2 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman, I just 3 would - - would like to ask her how long, I mean, 4 how long - - 5 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Well, first of all, 6 let's answer the question. Does anyone want to 7 see the videotape? 8 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 9 - - I think it's - - I don't care either way. I 10 think it's really up to you as chairman whether 11 you want to - - you think it's a good idea. I 12 would defer to your judgment, Mr. Chairman. 13 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I would concur. 14 CHAIRMAN GORDON: All right. Let's not 15 see the videotape. I'm satisfied based on what's 16 been said thusfar what the issues are regarding 17 the situation. Alderman, do you have any further 18 questions? 19 ALDERMAN BOHL: No. 20 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Does anybody else 21 have any further questions or comments? This 22 matter is in committee. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman, I would 24 make a motion at this time to renew the license 25 with a ten day suspension. My concerns are that 00023 1 - - that even though Ms. - - Ms. Kusz - - Ms. 2 Kusz has owned this establishment for a long 3 period of time, that we see a track record in the 4 last four years or so where there has been a 5 great deal of escalation. There have been two 6 underage guilty citations in the last calendar 7 year. There's been a consistent level of 8 problems. And I think that it's important for 9 her to reflect and, you know, just to say that 10 society has become - - has become more violent 11 and you don't have the answers, you know, the 12 concern is you've already had gunshots fired in, 13 whether or not that was a young person turned 14 away. I mean, at what point, given the - - the 15 level of violence that has occurred here 16 consistently in the - - in the last four years, 17 at what point does someone get more severely 18 injured, do we find a bystander? I think that 19 you ought to take ten days and reflect on your 20 plan of operation and come up with some type of 21 solutions to the problems so that we stem this 22 and we don't see you again. So, that is my 23 motion at this point. 24 CHAIRMAN GORDON: You've heard the 25 motion of Alderman Bohl. Are there any 00024 1 objections? Hearing none, so ordered. Mr. 2 Schrimpf. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Ms. Kusz, the committee 4 is going to be doing findings of fact and 5 conclusions of law recommending renewal of this 6 license with a ten day suspension. You'll 7 receive a copy of that report. You'll have an 8 opportunity to submit written objections to that 9 report, and you'll also have an opportunity to 10 appear and argue in support of those objections 11 when this matter is considered by the Common 12 Council at its meeting of April 15th, 2002. 13 What's the expiration date of this license? 14 THE APPLICANT: June - - June. 15 MR. COPLAND: May - - Excuse me - - May 16 7th. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: May 7th. Any - - It 18 will be in the Common Council chambers of this 19 building, which are on this floor at the opposite 20 end of this building at approximately nine a.m. 21 on April 15th, 2002. Do you have any questions, 22 Ms. Kusz? 23 THE APPLICANT: I really wish somebody 24 would look at this tape, because the evidence 25 showing what we do - - 00025 1 CHAIRMAN GORDON: Well, if you wish to 2 show the tape to the alderman, you certainly can 3 do that, and perhaps, you know, he can convey to 4 us what he sees on the tape. That may change our 5 recommendation at that time. Thank you. 6 * * * * * * 00026 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN) 2 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 3 4 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 5 Associated, Inc., do certify that the foregoing 6 transcript was reduced to writing under my direction 7 and that it is a true and accurate transcription of 8 the Utilities and Licenses Committee Hearing held on 9 April 1, 2003. 10 11 12 JEAN M. BARINA - COURT REPORTER 13 Dated this day of April, 2003. 14 15