COMMON COUNCIL CITY OF MILWAUKEE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter of: CLUB BARI Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Dance ROBERT F. CESARZ, Caesars World Enterprises, LLC, "CLUB BARI" 628 North Water Street * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The above-entitled cause, taken under and pursuant to Section 804.05 of the Wisconsin Statutes, before KAREN RENEE, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, on March 7, 2011. 2 1 * * * * * 2 I N D E X 3 4 Testimony By: Page 5 Captain Basting................................... 13 Officer Ferrell................................... 31 6 Officer Court..................................... 35 Sgt. Randow....................................... 38 7 Mr. Cesarz........................................ 42 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Also in the 4th 3 Aldermanic District, we have Robert Cesarz for 4 Caesars World Enterprises, LLC, Class B Tavern and 5 Tavern Dance License renewal application as agent 6 for Club Bari at 628 North Water Street. Is 7 Robert Cesarz or -- 8 MR. CESARZ: I'm here, but I never 9 received any notification. I've got a community 10 letter, that's all I saw. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are you Robert Cesarz? 12 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Come forward, please. 14 We'll need to swear you in. Captain 15 Basting is present as well too. We'll have you 16 both raise your right hand. 17 THE CLERK: Do you solemnly affirm under 18 the pains and penalties of perjury in the State of 19 Wisconsin that the testimony you are about to give 20 is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 21 truth? 22 MR. CESARZ: I do. 23 CAPTAIN BASTING: I do. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: For our applicant, I 25 need a name and a mailing address for the record, 4 1 please. 2 MR. CESARZ: Robert Cesarz, 4958 South 3 20th Street, Milwaukee 53221. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Grill, could you 5 double check and confirm the address that was 6 mailed by the License Division? 7 MS. GRILL: It was mailed to the 628 8 North Water, which is indicated by the applicant 9 as the location that we should mail notices. And 10 typically, people don't choose their business 11 address if they are not there on a regular basis 12 because they wouldn't get the notice. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you have an 14 indication as to when the license notification 15 would have been mailed? 16 MS. GRILL: It was generated on the 17 23rd, so it would have been on the 23rd or the 18 24th of February. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. 20 Mr. Stephens, do you have thoughts in terms of I 21 can ask -- and one additional question, Ms. Grill 22 before I ask some additional questions of 23 Mr. Stephens here, when does the license 24 application expire? 25 MS. GRILL: The license expires on April 5 1 12th. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: April 12th. That is 3 concurrent with our next Common Council cycle. 4 What I can do right now is, I can gave 5 you two options: we can either allow you to waive 6 your right, if you wish to do so, and proceed 7 forward here today, or we can see if there are 8 individuals here who would be able to provide 9 testimony, take that testimony, and then hold the 10 matter if you want additional time, and to proceed 11 with the remaining portion of the hearing at our 12 next licensing meeting, which would be March 28th. 13 MR. CESARZ: I just came here to observe 14 today. Otherwise, I would have -- I just wanted 15 to see if there were any community complaints, 16 that's why I came down. I was supposed to really 17 be out of town. I got the call on Friday night. 18 This came in the mail when my manager opened up 19 and said there was a community letter going 20 around. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be here. I 21 would have never even known. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, your desire is to 23 want to proceed forward at our next available 24 March meeting? 25 MR. CESARZ: Yes, I just want -- I came 6 1 just to hear what was going on in the community. 2 That's why I showed up today. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Bauman, do you 4 have individual input as well too? 5 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Well, there is going 6 to be -- aside from the police record, this matter 7 is going to directly involve the misrepresentation 8 this applicant has made to this body, which I 9 think are well documented in the record. A plan 10 of operation was filed, a very short plan of 11 operation, which, basically, you know, with Mr. 12 Cesarz's signature on it, that basically says that 13 they plan to operate an Italian sports lounge and 14 grill, a sophisticated, upbeat atmosphere 15 appealing to 30- to 40-year-old professional 16 clientele. "We will offer beer, cocktails, wine, 17 martinis, casual dining, catering and a luncheon. 18 We will feature classic music involving big-band 19 style, pop and rock." And from the opening day, 20 that is just not what they did. 21 So this is really more than just a 22 matter of the licensee's behavior and performance 23 over the last year; it is a matter of whether they 24 misrepresented their intentions to this committee, 25 which I think the record demonstrates with 7 1 complete clarity. 2 So whether we hear this today or hear 3 this in a month, that's going to be the issue 4 we're going to raise. And whether there is 50 5 people in the audience or nobody in the audience, 6 I think that issue stands on its face. The 7 documents are in our record, and that's going to 8 be the basis for my request that this committee 9 non-renew this license. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any questions by 11 committee at this time? 12 Outside of the Milwaukee Police 13 Department, are there any residents present 14 wishing to provide testimony for the Class B 15 Tavern and Tavern Dance License renewal 16 application for Club Bari at 628 North Water 17 Street? Any residents, a show of hands, hands up? 18 Let the record reflect no one does acknowledge it. 19 Mr. Cesarz, you indicated that you 20 received a community notification on Friday? 21 MR. CESARZ: Yes, at the club. It came 22 in Friday's mail. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let me ask the 24 committee, how do you wish to proceed? Ms. Grill 25 indicated that the mailing went out to the 8 1 location that was requested by the applicant. 2 The committee can decide that it desires to hold 3 the matter. The committee can decide if it wants 4 to proceed forward here today. 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Since we have the 6 captain here, should we take his testimony and 7 hold it, or would you rather come back? 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If we're going to do 9 that, then what I'm going to say at this point 10 here is, we will have to have the court 11 transcripts provided. Because notwithstanding the 12 fact that we hear the captain, when we do this, we 13 start to get to three weeks, we all get busy, and 14 the very minute details start to escape us three 15 weeks thereafter. And I've seen that on many 16 occasions where I think that as much as we may 17 have a general understanding of one thing or 18 another, the minute details that actually, I 19 think, don't necessarily stay fresh in our minds 20 here several weeks later. 21 Captain, do you want to proceed forward 22 here? We'll be happy to take your testimony here 23 today. 24 CAPTAIN BASTING: March 28th I'll be in 25 San Diego for my son's graduation from the Marine 9 1 Corps boot camp, but I will supply at the 2 committee's desire -- 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, why don't we -- he's 4 present here, he has the ability to cross examine 5 if he has any questions. I'm happy to proceed 6 forward here unless there is some desire to do 7 otherwise. 8 CAPTAIN BASTING: Mr. Chairman, I'm here 9 today to stand by the police report. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You know what, before we 11 do that, Captain -- while this depends, Sergeant, 12 why don't we have you proceed, and we'll have you 13 read the police report at this time? 14 SGT. MACGILLIS: Very well. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Because you're going to 16 speak to some of the items, we might as well make 17 sure we know what those items are. 18 Go ahead, Sergeant. 19 SGT. MACGILLIS: And I'll start with 20 Item 1: On, 6/3/2010 at 1:23 a.m., Milwaukee 21 police were dispatched to 628 North Water Street 22 for a fight complaint. Once there, police 23 observed no patrons in the club and the subjects 24 involved in the complaint were gone. Police found 25 that none of the bar's licenses were posted and 10 1 spoke with Robert Cesarz -- is that the correct 2 pronunciation? 3 MR. CESARZ: Cesarz. 4 SGT. MACGILLIS: Cesarz, I'm sorry. 5 Who was able to produce the licenses. 6 Cesarz was advised that it was a violation not to 7 the have the licenses posted, and he was cited for 8 such. Charged display of license required, 9 dismissed without prejudice. And that was on 10 9/15/2010. 11 Item 2: On 10/2/2010 at 1:17 a.m. 12 Milwaukee police were dispatched to 618 North 13 Water for a trouble-with-a-subject complaint. 14 Officers were met by a security guard identified 15 as Shannon Haget who stated he works at 618 Live 16 and that he had to physically restrain an 17 intoxicated and combative subject who came from 18 Club Bari. Haget stated the subject was harassing 19 patrons in front of 618 Live and was asked to 20 leave several times but refused. At one point, 21 the subject attempted to physically assault the 22 security guards, and he was placed into handcuffs 23 until police arrived. The subject was cited for 24 disorderly conduct and released. 25 Item 3: On 3/10/2010 at 1:41 a.m., 11 1 Milwaukee police responded to 628 North Water for 2 a fight complaint inside Club Bari. The club's 3 bouncers told officers there was no fight. And 4 police conducted a walkthrough and observed a 5 group of subjects rushing toward each other as if 6 they were going to fight. One patron became 7 disorderly and was issued a citation for 8 disorderly conduct. 9 Item 4: On 10/3/2010 at 11:45 p.m., 10 Milwaukee police conducted a license premise check 11 at 628 North Water Street. A check of the club's 12 license, it was found that the Tavern Dance was 13 not posted. Police spoke to Robert Cesarz who 14 explained due to the earlier fight, officers were 15 sent back to check for possible tavern violations 16 that were observed. Cesarz was advised of 17 violations found that he could be cited for. 18 Item 5: On 10/10/10 at 2:10 a.m., an 19 officer called for assistance at 628 North Water 20 with units responding. Once additional officers 21 were on scene, they observed 100 to 200 subjects 22 in the street and on the sidewalk in front of Club 23 Bari. Officers broke up the multiple fights and 24 attempted to clear people from the area who were 25 loitering. Subjects were heard yelling 12 1 profanities and refused to obey police orders to 2 leave the area. Numerous arrests were made and 3 citations were issued for disorderly conduct. One 4 subject was arrested for assaulting a police 5 officer. Police reviewed a camera pole at the 6 intersection of Water and Wisconsin that confirmed 7 that as patrons left Club Bari, the fighting in 8 the streets began. A total of 13 squads were used 9 to clear the area and restore order. 10 Item 6: On 10/26/2010 at 1:56 a.m., 11 Milwaukee police were flagged down by security 12 from Club Bari for a fight complaint. Officers 13 entered the bar and found several fights taking 14 place throughout the tavern. Police could also 15 smell a large concentration of pepper spray and 16 observed patrons coughing and running out the 17 backdoor of the building. Police spoke with 18 Patrick Ruich (phonetic) who stated he was head of 19 security. Ruich stated he was attempting to break 20 up a fight when he was pepper sprayed by an 21 unknown subject. Police found there was no video 22 surveillance system in the business, which could 23 have helped identify the events as they happened. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 25 Mr. Cesarz, if you have any objections 13 1 or disputes to items in the police report, you 2 will be allowed an opportunity to address those 3 during your portion of the hearing. 4 At this time here, we'll hear from 5 Captain Basting. You've been previously sworn in, 6 if you could identify yourself and your position 7 with the Milwaukee Police Department. 8 CAPTAIN BASTING: Steven Robert Basting. 9 I'm a captain with the City of Milwaukee Police 10 Department, currently assigned to the downtown 11 district, District 1. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony here, 13 Captain. 14 CAPTAIN BASTING: Again, Mr. Chairman, 15 I'm here to support the police reports. I have 16 officers available if you have any questions 17 regarding direct observations. They'd be able to 18 supply direct testimony regarding what they see at 19 Club Bari, specifically as it relates to the 20 original operating plan and how it is currently 21 operating in opposition to that. 22 From my end, it's just, Club Bari 23 continues to add to the general disorder that is 24 going on down on the 600 block of Water Street. 25 While it's well documented that 618 Live has had 14 1 issues, the operator there makes substantial 2 efforts to at least control people that come in; 3 people that have had problems in the past, he will 4 refuse entry. And I'm able to supply direct 5 testimony today that those patrons walk right next 6 door and go into Club Bari. So that again adds to 7 that general disorder. While one club is trying 8 to make things better and somehow controlled, they 9 just walk right next door. So the general 10 disorder continues. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Questions by committee? 12 Captain, in terms of resources that 13 you're providing to this particular hundred block 14 and/or more specifically to Club Bari, could you 15 identify that, or at least outline for the 16 committee -- 17 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes, I could. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- typically what you 19 are doing on a weekly or weekend basis? I'm going 20 to guess that most clubs tend to be a little more 21 busy on weekends, but just a general overview of 22 resources. 23 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes. What we've 24 done -- and, obviously, it's Thursdays, Fridays 25 and Saturday nights that are the big club nights 15 1 downtown. And, again, a lot is weather driven, 2 it's event driven, so my street supervision will 3 take a look at where they feel the issues will be. 4 That 600 block of Water Street consistently is one 5 of those areas. Recently, over the last weekend, 6 there are four officers. We try to be proactive 7 and put officers down there on the street doing 8 traffic and making their presence known. So on 9 average, it's about four police officers. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Are you -- have 11 you joined them in the past year at this location 12 at all, or are there other officers that are 13 present here that can identify what they're seeing 14 individually? 15 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes, there are. I 16 have a street supervisor and two officers. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any additional questions 18 of the captain? 19 Mr. Cesarz, were there any questions 20 that you have? 21 MR. CESARZ: Well, I was not here to 22 testify or ask questions today. Because, like I 23 said, I would have been here with an attorney if I 24 knew what was, you know, if I would have been 25 properly notified. 16 1 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Mr. Chair. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr.-- 3 MR. CESARZ: Because I don't agree with 4 a lot of what is being said, but I'm just being 5 quiet until I talk to my attorney. 6 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: If there is going to 7 be an objection by the applicant -- I'm sorry. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 9 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: If there is going to 10 be an objection by the applicant as to proceeding 11 with this, I think a record needs to be laid, 12 specifically where Ms. Grill will identify what 13 notice was sent to what address on what day and 14 what was included in that notice. It was up to 15 the applicant to provide a proper address. If he 16 did not receive the notice and the police report, 17 that is something that lays in the applicant's 18 responsibility. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. 20 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: As long as the city, 21 through Ms. Grill's office, properly sent the 22 notice. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you want to go 24 through some questions of Ms. Grill here to lay 25 some foundation on this? 17 1 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: I would. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 3 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Ms. Grill, was 4 notice mailed regarding this license application, 5 renewal application mailed to the licensee on -- 6 excuse me for a moment -- on or about Wednesday, 7 February 23, 2011, by Unites States first-class 8 mail in an envelope bearing the return address of 9 the License Division and addressed to the licensed 10 applicant at 628 North Water Street, Milwaukee, 11 Wisconsin 53204? 12 MS. GRILL: Yes, it was. 13 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: And was the address 14 that it was mailed to, 628 North Water Street, 15 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53204, and addressed to 16 Robert F. Cesarz agent for Caesars World 17 Enterprises, LLC, is that the address given by the 18 license renewal applicant in her/his application? 19 MS. GRILL: Yes, it was given as the 20 mailing address. 21 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: And did the notice 22 that was sent also include a copy of the police 23 report, which a portion of which was read into the 24 record by Sergeant MacGillis? 25 MS. GRILL: Yes. 18 1 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: And was the notice 2 and the police report returned to the city clerk's 3 License Division by the United States Postal 4 Service? 5 MS. GRILL: No, they were not. 6 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Thank you, 7 Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, the issue we 9 have here at this point is, we have the ability, 10 and I have the ability, to make a ruling to say 11 that based on the address that you provided to the 12 License Division -- I'm sorry, I'm not done, and 13 I'm not going to have you interrupt me until I'm 14 finished. And I will give you a chance to 15 respond, I promise you, I do promise you. But 16 you're going to allow me to finish, okay? 17 I have the ability to make a ruling that 18 the address that you adequately provided was duly 19 mailed in accordance with the state statutes. And 20 notwithstanding the fact that whether you showed 21 up there or not, or I don't know what the 22 circumstances are, we were not duly returned, that 23 we have the ability and legally to move forward 24 with a legal proceeding here today. 25 Now, I'm providing you the opportunity 19 1 to raise questions of the captain. 2 Notwithstanding the fact that you are present, and 3 notwithstanding the fact that you indicate that 4 you received notice of this here last week Friday 5 based on some neighborhood mailing, the fact of 6 the matter is, you were duly mailed; it was not 7 returned. This captain is not going to be present 8 here at the next meeting, you have the ability, 9 notwithstanding that here, to raise any questions 10 to his testimony that you will not be able to ask 11 him three weeks from now. 12 Now, I can decide to move forward here 13 today entirely, and then, if that is the case, you 14 can solicit an attorney and seek your efforts at 15 redress in court. But I'm going to take my 16 chances, sir, that a judge is going to say that 17 given what was just outlined and the fact that you 18 are present that, at the very least, you have the 19 ability to raise questions. 20 So that being said, I will ask you, is 21 it your desire to forego that possibility at this 22 point to ask any questions of the captain? 23 MR. CESARZ: No, I have no problem 24 asking questions. 25 I know what happened with the 20 1 application now too. Because I've been out for a 2 couple months having operations. So my partner 3 filled out the application, and, you know, with me 4 as the agent. So that's why I never seen any 5 documentation on my address or anything. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Do you have any 7 questions of the captain in terms of his testimony 8 he's provided here? 9 MR. CESARZ: Well, there's a lot of 10 things there that -- when people from other places 11 are pointing fingers at us, and we don't go that 12 way. We've cooperated with the police. They do a 13 fine job. We have no problem. And we try to do 14 our best, and it's not -- we do not let people in 15 the door. 16 And there was a big fight outside 17 because people tried to come in our door from 18 another club, and that's what started it. They 19 never even got inside our place. And a couple 20 fights, with the first one, when he came in for 21 the licensure -- 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, I apologize. 23 Do you have any questions of the captain? 24 MR. CESARZ: Well -- 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will certainly provide 21 1 you an opportunity to provide commentary. You are 2 providing commentary, you are providing statements 3 that you are indicating statements of fact. Do 4 you have any questions of the captain in terms of 5 questions you wish to elicit from his testimony? 6 And it must be framed in the form of a question: 7 who, what, where, when, why. 8 MR. CESARZ: Okay. Well, about people 9 coming in our club that get denied at the other 10 club, that is not true. We have very -- 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do you wish to raise -- 12 MR. CESARZ: Where are -- 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- a question? You can 14 say to him, "Captain, do -- 15 MR. CESARZ: Yes, I'm trying to ask. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: "-- do you have any proof 17 --" do -- you know, who, what, where, when, why, 18 "do" is another form of how to start a question. 19 "Do you have any proof that these people --" that 20 would be a question. "Are you --" who, what, 21 where -- "are." "Are you aware, Captain --" that 22 would be a question. Your providing commentary, 23 sir, is -- I don't agree with that. That's 24 commentary; that is not who, what, where, when, 25 why, are, do. Do you have any questions? 22 1 MR. CESARZ: Okay. Do you have any 2 proof that, on your statement, that people come 3 from the 618, as you state, and walk in our club 4 and just get in when they are denied somewhere 5 else? Because I don't believe that's true. 6 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes, sir, I do. And 7 I've got direct testimony available in the back at 8 the wishes of the committee that I can provide. 9 MR. CESARZ: Well, I wish I would have 10 had a proper notification, which I haven't 11 received. But otherwise, we would have been here 12 with an attorney today. 13 And we get along fine. We had meetings 14 with the captain. We thought that all of the 15 problems were solved in working together. 16 And about the restaurant operation, 17 we've asked the alderman several times, and we 18 know the parking -- 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll take it that you 20 have no additional questions here because I'm not 21 hearing that, Mr. Cesarz. 22 MR. CESARZ: Because I don't have the 23 paperwork. I didn't really take the testimony 24 written down, so, on specifically what was read on 25 the police report -- 23 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz. 2 MR. CESARZ: -- and I don't have the 3 statements in front of me that I can document 4 something with. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You know, my issue is, 6 you are the business operation, I'm -- you know 7 what, I'm going to rule that we can move forward 8 here today. Because here is my issue -- no. Here 9 is my issue: your own testimony here today, sir, 10 you indicated that, "Oh, hey, my partner did that, 11 and I've been out and injured." Well, you know 12 what, that is not the fault of the police 13 department, that is not the fault of the License 14 Division or this committee, the fact that you 15 don't outline with your partner where to properly 16 send the mailing. The fact is, is that it was 17 legally mailed. And then you went, "Oh, I know 18 what happened to it." The fact is, whether you 19 have it before you or not, it was properly and 20 legally mailed to you. And the fact that you're 21 here today -- and, you know what, if you all of a 22 sudden raise questions because you heard from some 23 secondary source notice of the meeting, I would 24 have picked up the phone and called, or I would've 25 said to my partner, "Hey, did we get a notice 24 1 here, anything? Did you --" the fact that you 2 didn't do that, that is not the fault of anyone 3 here. 4 Mr. Stephens. 5 MR. CESARZ: But I did call my partner. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Stephens, do you 7 have -- 8 MR. CESARZ: I did ask him. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- any issues with this 10 committee moving forward here today? 11 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: I think the record 12 is clear that the meeting was properly noticed. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. I'm going to rule 14 us as being legally able to move forward here 15 today. 16 I will ask you one final time, do you 17 have additional questions of the captain in terms 18 of items that you can phrase of him to cross 19 examine in the form of a question? 20 MR. CESARZ: All I can say is that the 21 hours of operation, it's bad business right now. 22 No one comes to the restaurant because the parking 23 is bad. 24 And it's not the police, we tried to 25 work this out, so I really have no questions about 25 1 the police reports. But I will leave that up to 2 what goes on from here. Because, like I said, we 3 did not receive, I did not receive any notice. I 4 even did ask my partner if we got anything because 5 I've been watching that. Because I knew our 6 license expired on the 11th, so I was watching for 7 the renewal date. And I have not had any 8 notification delivered to me or given to the club 9 from the City of Milwaukee other than this one 10 letter. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. 12 MR. CESARZ: And that was addressed to 13 "occupant." 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 15 Alderman Bauman. 16 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair, could I ask 17 the captain some questions, please? 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Captain Basting, you 20 have personal knowledge regarding the operation of 21 this establishment? 22 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes, I do. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Are you familiar with 24 the plan of operation which they submitted in 25 connection with the initial application of this 26 1 license? 2 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes. 3 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Are you familiar that 4 the plan of operation provided, "To operate an 5 Italian, Chicago-style sports lounge and grill 6 with a sophisticated upbeat atmosphere appealing 7 to the 30- to 40-plus professional clientele," are 8 you familiar with that? 9 CAPTAIN BASTING: Yes. 10 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Based on your personal 11 observation, is that the type of establishment 12 they are operating? 13 CAPTAIN BASTING: No, it is not. 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. It also 15 indicates that we will feature -- "We will feature 16 classic music, including big-band style, and pop 17 and rock old-school-style with piano bar on some 18 evenings and other live music or prerecorded 19 selections the remainder of the week." In your 20 personal knowledge, is that the type of 21 entertainment that is provided at Club Bari? 22 CAPTAIN BASTING: No, it is not. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Is there a piano bar 24 in Club Bari? 25 CAPTAIN BASTING: No, sir. 27 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: No further questions. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Captain, how do you know 3 this? You're providing a wherewithal as to the 4 form of entertainment, how do you know that this 5 is not the type of entertainment? 6 CAPTAIN BASTING: I have stopped in the 7 club on a couple of different occasions. I have 8 significantly observed for a fair amount of time 9 out in front on the street. And I also hear from 10 my street supervision and officers as well. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Now, in terms of what 12 Alderman Bauman outlined here, that the club came 13 forward and offered to -- or provided a plan of 14 operation to have an older crowd of 30- to 15 40-some-year-old professional clientele, is it 16 your experience that from what you've seen, both 17 when you've been in the club and in the vicinity 18 around it, that that is the general clientele that 19 he has at this location? Is it 30- to 20 40-some-year-old individuals? Is it older, is it 21 younger, or is that on target? 22 CAPTAIN BASTING: It's younger. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And in your estimation, 24 what would that be generally from what you've 25 witnessed? 28 1 CAPTAIN BASTING: 20s and 30s. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So skewing upwards to 3 the individuals in the 30s? 4 CAPTAIN BASTING: Skewing towards the 5 individuals in the 20s. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. Thank 7 you. 8 Mr. Cesarz. 9 MR. CESARZ: Yes. Obviously, none of 10 you people have been there during the first six 11 months when we had the restaurant open. We played 12 martini music. Did you notice that, and the 13 classic rock nights that we had? And we had no 14 people coming down there. And we came to Alderman 15 Bauman and asked about parking, and they said, 16 "Well, that was our concern." So we brought it 17 up, but we could not get any restaurant patrons 18 in. So we did follow our operation plan. And now 19 we are only open three days a week because there 20 is no business downtown because the parking is so 21 -- and that's on us, because the parking, we knew 22 that coming in. But we've had that, we still do 23 that all of the time. So obviously, you're not 24 there all of the time. That's why we closed the 25 restaurant down; there was absolutely no business 29 1 walking in the door. And we've played martini 2 music until almost 9:00 every night for the first 3 six months, and then we did some classic rock and 4 roll. So that, your statement, would not be 5 pertinent to the facts. 6 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Bauman. 8 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: If I could? 9 Mr. Cesarz, I think you are -- you just 10 indicated that you did change your operation after 11 the initial six months when, as you testified, 12 business wasn't meeting your expectations? 13 MR. CESARZ: All we did was not be open 14 during the day because we were losing thousands of 15 dollars a week on the restaurant. Because the 16 parking, every time our patrons would come in the 17 door, they get a ticket. And I've had the 18 restaurant and the nightclub, we were licensed 19 until 2:30 in the morning on the weekends, and by 20 2:00 or 2:01 every weekend night, the cars would 21 be ticketed up the blocks, and our patrons were 22 very upset. So we started moving them up earlier 23 too. But it was just the parking down there is -- 24 it's like I said, for whatever reason, I cannot 25 help the makeup of downtown Milwaukee. It's 30 1 urban. And we're trying to get the right people 2 into this club here, and it's kind of tough to get 3 the suburbanite crowd downtown. We're still 4 trying to do that. 5 And I haven't been down there for the 6 last couple months because of an illness I had, 7 and I just came in, like I said, this week, for 8 the first time since early December. 9 So I've heard no police problems, and we 10 were assured from, I guess my partner talking to 11 the police captain, everything is okay. So I 12 guess I'm getting misinformation on what is going 13 on down here. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 15 Thank you, Captain. 16 Were there other officers here who have 17 firsthand knowledge of the location? 18 CAPTAIN BASTING: If the committee would 19 desire, yes, sir. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes, please. How many 21 officers have firsthand knowledge here? Three. 22 We're going to swear all three of you 23 in. If you gentlemen could all raise your right 24 hand, please? 25 THE CLERK: Do you solemnly affirm under 31 1 the pains and penalties of perjury of the State of 2 Wisconsin that the testimony you are about to give 3 is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 4 truth? 5 ALL: I do. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And if you officers 7 could take the standing microphone unless that 8 physically is a problem here. If you could just 9 provide your name and your position with the 10 Milwaukee Police Department? 11 OFFICER FERRELL: My name is Officer 12 Robert Ferrell. I work for District 1. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, Officer, could you 14 spell your last name, please, for me? 15 OFFICER FERRELL: F-E-R-R-E-L-L. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your direct 17 knowledge of this particular location, please. 18 OFFICER FERRELL: I work the power 19 shift, 8:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. As I commonly do, I 20 patrol the entertainment district in the downtown 21 area on the weekends. On most weekends, I end up 22 in the 600 block of North Water Street observing 23 what happens due to the large number of incidents 24 and other activities which occur down in that 25 area. 32 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And what have you 2 generally seen specific to this location? 3 OFFICER FERRELL: We see a lot of 4 disorder coming out of the taverns in this block. 5 And specific with this location, in specific, I 6 see patrons that are turned away at the Club 618 7 walk down and gain entrance into Club Bari at 628 8 North Water. I also see the manner in which the 9 two taverns let out and the behavior of the 10 clientele as they leave. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And what are you 12 witnessing specific to the clientele at this 13 location at exit? 14 OFFICER FERRELL: With this location at 15 628 North Water, I notice that with the clientele 16 they have, they tend to exit in a louder and more 17 ruckus fashion. They've had several fights come 18 out of the bar, multiple incidents in late fall 19 last year before they slowed down and changed 20 their plan of business for a while. Now I'm 21 noticing that they are going back to more of a 22 club format, and we're seeing some of the rise in 23 disorderly behavior leaving the tavern again. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 25 Questions by committee? 33 1 Mr. Cesarz, any questions you have of 2 this officer? 3 MR. CESARZ: Well, I haven't really had 4 much contact with you lately, obviously, because I 5 haven't been around there; my partner has been 6 running it. But I'm under the assumption you said 7 you've talked to him and you've made statements 8 about me personally that you think that I didn't 9 know how to run the club. Would that be true? 10 OFFICER FERRELL: I never made any 11 statements about you personally, sir. 12 MR. CESARZ: Okay, then someone is 13 giving me misinformation because you're Officer 14 Ferrell, that's all I know. So that's -- and it 15 comes from next door too, from the owners of the 16 618, that you're the one that's making statements 17 about me, so. I've never had any personal dispute 18 about -- now at least it's on the record that it's 19 getting misquoted to me. That's all that I need 20 to know from you. Thank you. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair, could I? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Bauman. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Officer Ferrell, based 24 on your personal observations of Club Bari, would 25 you say that it operates in a manner consistent 34 1 with an Italian, Chicago-style sports lounge and 2 grill? 3 OFFICER FERRELL: No. 4 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Would you say that the 5 entertainment that is provided is consistent with 6 classical music including a big-band style, pop 7 and rock old-school-style with piano bar on some 8 evenings? 9 OFFICER FERRELL: No. 10 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 11 MR. CESARZ: Could I refute that? 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You'll be given an 13 opportunity to actually address items. If you 14 have -- if that elicited an additional question, 15 you may ask him a question. 16 MR. CESARZ: Well, yes, it does elicit a 17 question. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 19 MR. CESARZ: Since you're on third 20 shift, did you ever notice our operation when we 21 are open during the day? 22 OFFICER FERRELL: I do not work third 23 shift; I work power shift, 8:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. 24 I am not working during the daytime. 25 MR. CESARZ: Right. So you've never 35 1 observed it during the day. That's all I need to 2 know. Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you, 4 Officer Ferrell. 5 Next witness, please. 6 OFFICER COURT: Officer Corstan Court. 7 First name spelled C-O-R-S-T-A-N, last name 8 C-O-U-R-T. I work out of the 1st District, the 9 late shift, which is 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. 10 I do patrol the downtown area, and the 11 amount of disorderly subjects coming out of that 12 establishment is more than anywhere else downtown, 13 it seems to me, when I'm working and when I'm down 14 there. It seems that they have a lax in security 15 because it just seems like when the bar closes, 16 their security only worries about getting them 17 outside of the tavern. After they are outside of 18 the tavern, the doors close and, it's like, that's 19 our problem to handle. And that's my biggest 20 complaint is with the big crowds that they push 21 out at 2:30 in the morning and then just shut the 22 doors and it's up to us. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Officer. 24 Questions by committee? 25 Mr. Cesarz, any questions you have of 36 1 this officer? 2 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 3 So I don't know if I direct this to you, 4 you're the officer testifying here, but when we 5 had the meeting with the police, we were told to 6 get the people out the door and make sure they 7 move on and not be worried about anything on the 8 street because that was the police jurisdiction; 9 not ours. So we would clean out the general area, 10 but anything that happened past that was not our 11 responsibility, but the police. And that's what 12 we were told in cooperation with the police 13 department. So did you get that from your 14 supervisors, or were we -- did you get a different 15 story? 16 OFFICER COURT: I'm sure, I don't -- I'm 17 not really understanding your question, sir. Are 18 you saying that -- 19 MR. CESARZ: No, I'm saying we are not 20 supposed to take care of anything. Get the people 21 outside of the door, close, and let the police 22 jurisdiction after that; not ours. So we make 23 sure that we get everyone out on an orderly 24 fashion. So when they hit the streets, who is 25 responsible? The club -- we still have people 37 1 outside there making sure we don't have any 2 fights, get people going, but we were told that it 3 was the police responsibility after we get -- just 4 get the people out of the area and not to take 5 anything from there. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let me outline this to 7 you. Have you ever been in a meeting with this 8 applicant or anybody from this location in which 9 question was addressed or that statement was made? 10 OFFICER COURT: No, sir. 11 MR. CESARZ: No, I have never seen this 12 officer before, so. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I understand. You're 14 making a point that you believe that you have been 15 in a meeting with the police department and that 16 was addressed to you. But this officer, 17 specifically -- 18 MR. CESARZ: Right. No, I've never seen 19 this officer before, so I can't say. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. I'll take 21 that as your testimony is done here, Officer 22 Court. Thank you. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Mr. Chair, could I 24 just make my record here? 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Bauman, 38 1 additional follow-up, go ahead. 2 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Officer Court, based 3 on your personal observations, would you say that 4 Club Bari operates in a manner consistent with an 5 Italian, Chicago-style sports lounge and grill? 6 OFFICER COURT: No, sir. 7 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Based on your personal 8 observations, would you say that its entertainment 9 product is consistent with classical music 10 including big-band style, pop and rock 11 old-school-style with piano bar on some evenings? 12 OFFICER COURT: No, sir. 13 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Officer, what -- would 15 this be more akin to a downtown dance club, 16 nightclub? 17 OFFICER COURT: Yes, sir. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 19 SGT. RANDOW: Sergeant Scott Randow, 20 R-A-N-D-O-W. I'm a sergeant at District No. 1, 21 street supervision. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And Sergeant, your 23 testimony. 24 SGT. RANDOW: Just that it's my duty to 25 go around and determine how much manpower we need 39 1 at the different locations. If fights occur, 2 we're going to have to up that manpower. This 3 happens a lot on the weekends at the location. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Questions by 5 committee? 6 Captain, you're representing an area 7 that is downtown and also has the east side, so a 8 fair number of, probably the preponderance, of 9 nightclub areas in the city. 10 SGT. RANDOW: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: In terms of individual 12 locations on a proportionate basis, are you 13 providing a proportionate level of resources at 14 this location? Is it disproportionate? Is there 15 anything that you can shed light on for the 16 committee? 17 SGT. RANDOW: Well, on any given 18 weekend, we get disturbances all over the place in 19 District No. 1. It's a pretty vast area that we 20 have to cover. As the captain has testified to, 21 we put about four officers in the 600 block to try 22 and make our presence known in that area. This is 23 a good portion of our personnel that we have out 24 on the street. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Other 40 1 questions by committee? 2 Mr. Cesarz, are there any questions you 3 have of the sergeant here? 4 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 5 Since you're the street supervisor, and 6 your observations, where are the most problems on 7 that street, from my address or one of the other 8 addresses? 9 SGT. RANDOW: That would be from 628; 10 your address. 11 MR. CESARZ: From my address? 12 SGT. RANDOW: Yes. 13 MR. CESARZ: And that shows in all of 14 your reports compared to my neighbor? That I 15 would have to disagree with, because we haven't 16 had that many incidents at all. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sergeant, what makes you 18 indicate that there are a greater number of 19 problems than -- there is one other nightclub on 20 this particular block? 21 SGT. RANDOW: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How many times in the 23 last year would you say you personally have been 24 out at this location? 25 SGT. RANDOW: In the last year? 41 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 2 SGT. RANDOW: I don't have the specific 3 numbers. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: A dozen or more? 5 SGT. RANDOW: More than a dozen. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: More than a dozen times. 7 What leads you to that observation? At the times 8 that you've been out there, have you witnessed 9 greater activity, greater problems stemming from 10 this location? 11 SGT. RANDOW: Well, I'll patrol the area 12 to make a determination if we need more resources 13 down there. So on a nightly basis during the 14 weekends when I'm working, I'll be down there 15 patrolling around, making sure which area needs 16 more resources. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But what leads you to 18 the comment of more problems are occurring at this 19 location than at the other club on this particular 20 hundred block? 21 SGT. RANDOW: Just from the fights that 22 I see break out. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So from what you've 24 personally witnessed? 25 SGT. RANDOW: Yes. 42 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 2 No other questions? All right. Thank you. 3 Mr. Cesarz, this is an opportunity, if 4 you have any particular objections or disputes to 5 the police report, to raise objections now to 6 those items and provide any additional testimony 7 if you wish or desire at this point. 8 MR. CESARZ: I will leave this up -- 9 basically, I'm here, this is the first time I'm 10 seeing the report right now. And I can see how 11 this thing is going right now, so I'm going to 12 leave it up to basically your discretion. 13 But I think a lot of this testimony is 14 being skewed because, basically, it will come out 15 in the long run. I don't want to bring race into 16 this thing, but even though I'm white, it's -- I 17 can't help the people that are coming to downtown 18 Milwaukee, urban. And I think that is going to be 19 more brought out in the proceedings coming ahead. 20 That we're trying to make it home to everyone in 21 Milwaukee. 22 We've had events for the police 23 department and we've heard that they, officers, 24 can't come to our club. I had free food for 25 Memorial Day, they were told to stay away because 43 1 it's, I think, a vendetta, with comments that will 2 be very prevalent coming up. I think the police 3 do a fine job, I'm very happy. But there's other 4 people in the city that I'll let my attorneys 5 speak for me. And I'll leave it to whatever your 6 determination is right now, but it's going to 7 still be brought up at the next committee meeting, 8 your general meeting, so. 9 Because I still -- understandable, you 10 said -- you have said that you sent me proper 11 notification, but as I'm sitting here, I swear on 12 souls that were in here, I never received anything 13 from the city other than this occupant letter. 14 And I was told not to even come here. My partner, 15 he said it's unimportant, it's just a neighborhood 16 meeting. I came down here to observe. And that's 17 all it was. 18 And I respect the job everyone is doing 19 here, and I only want the best for the City of 20 Milwaukee and all its residents and the police. 21 We try to keep an orderly place and provide the 22 best security we can get. And a lot of this is 23 determined right now by, how can I say, it's going 24 to come out to our stereotypes and prejudices 25 going around in the city right now. Thank you 44 1 very much. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, I don't want 3 to -- I want to ensure that there is not any 4 miscommunication here. There -- 5 MR. CESARZ: Well, it's not with you. 6 It's not with you people. If I bring up 7 statements that were already told to us in private 8 meetings with other witnesses that aren't here, 9 then this would be a very explosive matter. 10 That's all I can say. So I'll let my attorney 11 come back here when we get this documentation. He 12 can make the statements for us. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, what I 14 wanted to say is, I hope that there is not a 15 miscommunication here because unless the committee 16 -- the committee has every ability to do this -- 17 they can decide to hold this matter. My ruling at 18 this point is that we are proceeding forward, that 19 you have been provided due adequate notice and 20 that we are proceeding forward. And I'm asking 21 you at this point, unless there is a motion made 22 by committee, and I will leave that open to the 23 committee at this time -- 24 MR. CESARZ: Right, I -- 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- but what I want to do 45 1 is, I want to ask, is there a desire by the 2 committee to, at this point, hold this matter? 3 Because I would be open to doing that if the 4 committee decides to move forward and to make a 5 motion to hold this matter. Otherwise, we're 6 going to proceed forward here today. 7 MR. CESARZ: I would ask that because of 8 what really happened, it's not the city's fault 9 that the postman did not deliver the letter, that 10 you hold it until I get the proper witnesses here. 11 And then you make the best possible decision for 12 everyone when everyone is present. And you can 13 still use the captain's testimony and the police, 14 but I still want the attorney to review this 15 because -- that's why we didn't have anyone 16 because we did not receive any notification. 17 Whatever happened with the postal department, I do 18 not know. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you. I 20 appreciate the your commentary here. 21 Committee? 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: A question, Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You indicated before 25 that you have a partner who is now receiving your 46 1 mail? 2 MR. CESARZ: Yes, down at the club. And 3 I asked him when he called me on Friday night, 4 about this thing, all of a sudden he read later, 5 it says that it was not necessary to appear. I 6 even have the letter here. That's the only thing 7 that I -- I went down to the club on Saturday and 8 got the letter, that was it. So he said don't 9 even bother coming; it's unimportant, our attorney 10 is out of town. 11 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Was that the notice of 12 this meeting, the official city notice, or was 13 that a community flyer? 14 MR. CESARZ: Community flyer, that was 15 the only thing we received at the club. With the 16 building we're in there, for some reason, we 17 cannot put a mailbox outside, and the mail comes 18 through our door. And we get -- we have a lot of 19 problems with AT&T, Wisconsin Electric; not 20 getting bills. So we don't -- and that, you can 21 go verify the sources for the last year, we don't 22 receive half of our mail. And we keep 23 complaining, and it doesn't do any good. Because 24 we have offices above us, and the only way they 25 can get mail to us is to stick it through the 47 1 door, and we only get half of our mail. So that's 2 probably what happened. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: The thing is you -- 4 MR. CESARZ: You can call AT&T -- 5 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You were just -- 6 MR. CESARZ: Wisconsin Electric. 7 ALDERMAN KOVAC: You had been out, you 8 were sick, so you weren't getting mail, you 9 weren't around, you were out of town, I can't 10 remember what it was. You weren't around for a 11 couple months, you said? 12 MR. CESARZ: Right, I haven't been 13 around, because of eye surgeries I've had, for the 14 last two-and-a-half months. 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So, but you have a 16 partner who's managing the day-to-day and is 17 receiving mail? 18 MR. CESARZ: Yes, any mail that comes to 19 the club. But we still, you can call -- I can 20 have AT&T here. Let's see, who else do we get it 21 from? Wisconsin Electric. We still haven't 22 received any, really, mail from them in a year. 23 And we get a lot of people calling us that we 24 don't get letters that we receive. 25 ALDERMAN KOVAC: How do you pay your 48 1 electric bills then, do you just go online? 2 MR. CESARZ: The last minute; late. And 3 I can have Wisconsin Electric here to testify. 4 They are still trying to get us a bill. After one 5 year, we haven't got any mail from them, so I had 6 it sent to the 4958 address the last couple 7 months, and they still can't get it there. And 8 the same with AT&T. For some reason, we don't get 9 our mail at that address. 10 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But you don't 11 understand our dilemma. You gave us -- your 12 partner gave us an address, your partner is there 13 to receive mail. 14 MR. CESARZ: Right, when he filled out 15 the new application. I did not even know it was 16 even filled out, other than when he called me on 17 Friday night about this occupancy notice, he said 18 don't even worry. I even called him this morning, 19 so that's -- he said it's unimportant because we 20 don't have to be there, so. I talked to him 21 already today. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I mean, there are times 23 when we want to give you some latitude, but I'm 24 not sure this is that kind of case because we 25 legally noticed you. You're saying that you've 49 1 had a problem for months that you haven't solved, 2 that your business doesn't receive official 3 mail -- 4 MR. CESARZ: Right, and I complained to 5 the post office, and I can prove that too. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 7 MR. CESARZ: I'm just saying, I'd like 8 to hold here until we get the proper people here, 9 until your next meeting. And you can do what you 10 want right now, but the thing is, we did not 11 receive any notification that I had to actually be 12 here today. And I'm just asking, you know, if you 13 -- regular mail, fine -- but I'm here just, I just 14 came here, the only reason, was to hear the 15 committee and any complaints about the club today. 16 That's the only reason I came, otherwise I was 17 told not even to come down here because it was 18 unnecessary of the notice that I do. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Told by your partner; 20 not by the city? 21 MR. CESARZ: Told by the partner, yes. 22 So we didn't even call the city because I didn't 23 know this was a regular meeting. It said just a 24 neighborhood hearing, that's all I saw. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I just want to state for 50 1 the record here. I have a follow-up question for 2 Ms. Grill. Ms. Grill, you have -- can you move to 3 Page 234 in our license agenda book? 4 MS. GRILL: Okay. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Does that represent one 6 of the pages of the mailing that would have been 7 sent out? And this is a mailing notification to 8 neighbors. 9 MS. GRILL: That's correct, of the 10 meeting. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Of the meeting. Of 12 which is even "current occupant at 628 North Water 13 Street," is that correct? 14 MS. GRILL: Yes. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That is listed. So in 16 addition to the normal mailing of their individual 17 notice, they would have even been on the general 18 mailing list for the location for so-called 19 neighbors of this particular area, is that 20 correct? 21 MS. GRILL: Yes, in this case, we did 22 mail to all of the businesses due to the nature of 23 that block. Yes, they did. 24 ALDERMAN BOHL: And that would have been 25 the public meeting notice that would have been on 51 1 Page 232? 2 MS. GRILL: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski would 4 move to make the public hearing notice, Page 232, 5 as well as the additional mailing, Pages 233, 234, 6 235, 236, and 237, as part of our official record 7 in this proceeding. Hearing no objections to 8 that, so ordered. 9 Alderman Bauman provided additional 10 documentation to the committee. This is a copy 11 from his records signed by Mr. Cesarz. 12 Was this provided last year to you, 13 Alderman? 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Correct. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It is a plan of 16 operation, a one-page plan of operation signed by 17 Robert F. Cesarz to indicate the operation of 18 "Italian, Chicago-style sports lounge and grill 19 with a sophisticated upbeat atmosphere appealing 20 to 30- and 40-plus professional clientele. We 21 will offer beer and cocktails including wine and 22 martinis, casual dining, catering to the luncheon 23 after-business crowd. We will feature classical 24 music including big-band style and pop and rock 25 old-school with piano bar some evenings and other 52 1 live music with prerecorded selections remainder 2 of the week." And then it goes on to list the 3 hours of operation from 11:00 a.m. to 11 -- to 4 2:00 a.m. weeknights; 11:00 a.m. to 2:30 a.m. 5 Fridays and Saturdays. And if there are any 6 questions there is a phone number that is 7 provided. 8 Alderman Kovac would move to make this 9 one-page plan of operation from last year as part 10 of our official record in this proceeding. 11 Hearing no objections to that, so ordered. 12 I will just ask the committee again, is 13 there any desire to hold this matter? Hearing 14 none -- Mr. Stephens? 15 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: I just would ask 16 that the committee perhaps clarify a portion of 17 the record so that the license applicant can 18 identify who the partner is that we've been 19 discussing and what role that partner has had in 20 the course of the last year and also what role 21 that partner had in filling out the application 22 and the necessary paperwork. 23 MR. CESARZ: He's a 50/50 partner with 24 me and the club. And after we had the meeting 25 with the police, I walked away, even though I'm 53 1 still the agent. And he's been running the 2 operation since mid October, when we had the 3 initial meeting with the police. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, what's the 5 name of that individual? 6 MR. CESARZ: Mario Morgaci (phonetic). 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Grill, do you have 8 documentation here from the License Division as to 9 a partner? 10 MS. GRILL: Yes, he is listed as 11 50 percent stockholder. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Stephens, was 13 there anything else? 14 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Ms. Grill, does Mr. 15 Morgaci have a manager's license issued by the 16 city for this premise? 17 MS. GRILL: I don't believe so, but let 18 me check for sure. 19 MR. CESARZ: No, I -- he is listed as a 20 50/50 owner with me, but he's been -- we have two 21 licensed bartenders that actually run the club 22 under, you know, it's legal by law. And I'm still 23 the agent for it, but I'm doing anything financial 24 with the club, so, right now, running that aspect. 25 MS. GRILL: I don't have a record of the 54 1 manager's license. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No record of the 3 manager's license. 4 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: If he's -- 7 MR. CESARZ: No, he's the partner. But 8 the manager, it's listed on our bulletin board, I 9 mean, on the club, the licensed bartenders. Even 10 though I'm the agent for the club, they're still 11 running the operation per your city rules here, 12 so. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz, can you 14 provide us a name of the individual who is running 15 the club then? 16 MR. CESARZ: Melissa and Brent. I don't 17 recall their last names, they're on the wall. So 18 I talk to them just by first names, so. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're a 50/50 partner 20 in this establishment. You're the registered 21 agent -- 22 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- and -- 24 MR. CESARZ: But he hired all of the 25 bartending staff and that. Because he had a 55 1 different club on 60th and Burnham, and he hired 2 all of the initial people. I put the money up 3 through my percentage of ownership, so. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Grill. 5 MS. GRILL: Melissa, who is listed on 6 the license, she has a bartender's license; not a 7 manager's license. She is listed as the manager 8 on this application. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: They list her as a 10 manager but she does not have a manager's license, 11 is what you're indicating? 12 MS. GRILL: That's correct. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Cesarz -- were there 14 any additional questions? 15 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Yes. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Cesarz, I just want 18 to be clear. You're -- at this point, you have a 19 50 percent financial interest, but due to your eye 20 surgery and other potential issues, the day-to-day 21 management is run by Melissa of the actual place, 22 and then the financial affairs are run by your 50 23 percent partner by Mario, correct? 24 MR. CESARZ: Myself included though too. 25 After I was at the meeting with the police, it was 56 1 -- to clear everything up, we had a meeting with 2 Captain Basting and other people in the office: a 3 couple of attorneys, and I basically backed away 4 from, you know, until we could clear up all of the 5 problems. We're working hand in hand with the 6 police because we just wanted no problems 7 downtown. 8 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What did you back away 9 from? 10 MR. CESARZ: Sir? 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You mentioned you had a 12 meeting with the police, but then you backed away, 13 I wasn't clear -- 14 MR. CESARZ: Yes, from running the 15 day-to-day operations. 16 ALDERMAN KOVAC: And why was that? 17 MR. CESARZ: Well, because I was in a 18 bad accident. I've had 11 eye surgeries, so I'm 19 blind in one eye right now. 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But it wasn't because 21 of the meeting with the police? 22 MR. CESARZ: Well, it was decided that 23 we're going to implement different things. My 24 partner got rid of his other club back in 25 September, so he assumed more of a role with the 57 1 bartenders and active security and everything, so. 2 That was at least six months ago, that happened. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: The reason I want to 4 clarify this is, it's all well and good to have 5 different people play different roles; it happens 6 all of the time with bars, but something really 7 slipped through the cracks here on your end. 8 Because this is -- how did no one know that 9 your -- this is not some special meeting that got 10 scheduled on the spot; this is your annual 11 renewal. This is something that with or without a 12 notice, you should have been aware was coming, and 13 then now you say you didn't get a notice, but you 14 don't -- 15 MR. CESARZ: As I stated before, I was 16 watching for it for over a month, and I kept 17 calling every day for the mail, and we never 18 received it. The only thing I had was this 19 occupant notice. 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Who did you call every 21 day? 22 MR. CESARZ: My partner, when he checked 23 the mail. 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: And every day you would 25 have to -- 58 1 MR. CESARZ: I said, "Did we receive --" 2 he said he'd keep watching it. And I was watching 3 in my home mail because I'm listed at the 4958 4 South 20th Street address. I still got -- I get 5 mailings from the city there too. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So you knew your -- 7 MR. CESARZ: For any kind of license 8 application, they were only sent to that address, 9 and that's -- 10 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Let's be clear though, 11 because now this is becoming more clear. You knew 12 that your license was going to come up in April? 13 MR. CESARZ: Right, and I've been 14 watching the mail for any committee hearing on 15 this. 16 ALDERMAN KOVAC: And you took the time 17 every day for a month to call your partner -- 18 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: -- to wonder if the 20 mail, which you know never comes half of the time. 21 MR. CESARZ: Well, I was looking for 22 just the documentation from a meeting that I had 23 to appear. 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Right, but you were 25 aware that not just city mail, you've already said 59 1 your WE Energies, your AT&T, you lose half of your 2 mail, or half of the mail didn't get to you. You 3 were aware of that. 4 MR. CESARZ: Well, I thought that when I 5 looked at the contract, it's got to be within 30 6 days of our license application, the 11th, and 7 it's not the 30-day period yet. 8 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Right, so rather than - 9 I guess the real question I'm leading to is, if 10 you knew this was coming, every day you called 11 your partner to say, "That mail that we lose half 12 of every day, did we get it?" Why wouldn't you 13 have called the city? 14 MR. CESARZ: I did call the city. In 15 fact, I called two weeks ago, and I guess -- I'm 16 trying to think what the guy's name is, he's an 17 Oriental that runs the license bureau for you. I 18 can't remember what his name is. 19 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 20 MR. CESARZ: And he was at a meeting 21 that day, and I talked to a girl -- I'd have to go 22 back in my files -- and said, "Is there anything I 23 should know about on a new application?" I said 24 everything was -- she said everything was fine and 25 they'd be sending a notification to us to come to 60 1 a meeting. That's why I've been watching it. I 2 did call a couple weeks ago. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What is -- were you 4 told about this hearing? 5 MR. CESARZ: No, I was not. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: What were you told? 7 MR. CESARZ: That there was nothing 8 changed on our license and it was coming up for 9 renewal. That was it. Because my partner filled 10 it out, and I don't know how he filled out the new 11 application, but I wasn't aware how that it was 12 even sent until I called the City of Milwaukee. 13 ALDERMAN KOVAC: And I guess my other 14 question is, why didn't Mario come today, if he is 15 the one who got the community flyer and told you 16 about it, and he is the one actually more 17 knowledgeable of the last few months? 18 MR. CESARZ: Because he read what it 19 said on the notification that we had, it's 20 unnecessary for us, and I have -- my girlfriend 21 has the letter that was sent that I got out of the 22 office on Saturday night. That's the only 23 notification we had, and it says "mandatory 24 attendance is not necessary." 25 ALDERMAN KOVAC: That letter there that 61 1 your girlfriend has? 2 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 3 ALDERMAN KOVAC: I think that is the 4 official city notice. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It is. 6 MS. GRILL: Mr. Chair. 7 ALDERMAN KOVAC: That's the 8 neighborhood notice. 9 MR. CESARZ: It's the only notice that 10 we have. 11 MS. GRILL: We put that on their because 12 people will call and think that they have to come. 13 MR. CESARZ: And it says -- that's why I 14 talked to my partner, and he called me, he said 15 don't worry about this. So I went and picked this 16 up at the club, and he said, don't even, there's 17 no reason to even come down here today. Well, I 18 came down just to hear, like I said, what was 19 going on, if anyone has been complaining against 20 the club. And this is the only notification that 21 we had. That's it. 22 ALDERMAN KOVAC: But you knew that this 23 day might be coming. 24 MR. CESARZ: Right. And that's why I've 25 been watching the mail every day. I thought it 62 1 would be coming to the 4958 South, any other 2 correspondence from the city has been sent to that 3 address. 4 ALDERMAN KOVAC: So what did you think 5 that mail meant? I mean, it was intended for a 6 neighbor; not the actual applicant, because that's 7 the -- 8 MR. CESARZ: Right. It says -- I just 9 wanted to come and hear if anyone was saying 10 anything about the club. That's why I came down. 11 I was actually going to be out of town. 12 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Sure. But I mean, 13 that's an official notice of a public hearing; 14 that's not a, "Hey, Alderman Bauman is having an 15 neighborhood meeting, come say your peace." 16 That's a notice of an official meeting where 17 attendance is not mandatory, but it's a notice 18 that your annual license hearing is coming up. 19 MR. CESARZ: Right. And I've been 20 watching the mail. I didn't know what date the 21 annual licensing was for. This is a neighborhood 22 meeting, this letter. It doesn't say anything 23 about us being here to testify. Otherwise, I 24 would have been here with my partner and our legal 25 counsel. 63 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. I 3 just want to clarify here now. Is the committee 4 sufficient in its viewpoint of us moving forward 5 now here? Otherwise, I will entertain a motion to 6 hold. 7 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 9 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I think it's pretty 10 clear that we did everything that we were supposed 11 to do legally in order to have a hearing here 12 today, and, obviously, the message did get to the 13 applicant, and he is present, and I think we 14 should just move forward. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All right. I 16 will leave it open. Any other commentary by 17 committee? All right. 18 Mr. Cesarz, I will again provide you the 19 opportunity, if you so desire, are there any 20 objections that you wish to provide to dispute any 21 of the items in the police report? Is there any 22 additional commentary you wish to provide 23 regarding your overall operation? 24 MR. CESARZ: Our overall operation, 25 there is no observation by the police here from 64 1 our daily operations when we were open for the 2 first six, seven months, where we actually 3 approached them and tried to make modifications. 4 And the alderman said the only thing he was going 5 to do to us is put us out of business. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I will ask again, for 7 the record, are there any items you wish to 8 dispute or object to in the police report? 9 MR. CESARZ. I will, like I said, I 10 reject everything. Because I'm telling you, 11 whether you believe it or not, we never got 12 notification, and I wouldn't be here under these 13 circumstances without proper counsel and my 14 partner here. I was here to observe people 15 testifying, and that's -- I know you're saying 16 your legal opinion, but we never received 17 anything. And that's what I want put on record: 18 we never got anything from the city. Received, I 19 should say; not got. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Thank you. 21 Questions by committee? 22 Alderman Bauman? 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Nothing further. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. If there are 25 no additional questions by committee, we will take 65 1 this into committee. 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 4 ALDERMAN KOVAC: There's several 5 incidents in the police report that are causes for 6 concern. By themselves, they would not set up -- 7 by themselves, if there was no other context here, 8 that would probably warrant a suspension, but the 9 context we have here, there was two important 10 pieces of context. I'm going to base my motion on 11 the police report, Items 1 through 6. And those 12 couple important pieces of context are -- I guess, 13 there are three really: one is the testimony of 14 police and their expert opinion that this has 15 caused a disproportionate amount of the downtown 16 issues outside the bars. And this committee is 17 extremely familiar with some of those issues and 18 how they interconnect in those nearby bars. 19 Although, frankly, some of the other bars where we 20 deal with some of these problems, we're at least 21 dealing with bar owners and managers that are just 22 more attentive, and the least of their concerns is 23 when this meeting is. They are reaching out and 24 meeting with police constantly and working with 25 neighbors. So just from the evidence of the -- I 66 1 don't even -- I mean, from the evidence of the 2 either complete naivety or something else of how 3 city processes actually work, it's hard to imagine 4 there being any productive relationship with the 5 police department given that you can't even show 6 up with the right people for this hearing or get 7 mail of any kind. And then we have the testimony 8 from the police that the relationship has not been 9 productive. 10 But really, I think one of the key 11 pieces that's going to lead me to make this 12 motion, other than the police report, the lack -- 13 the evidence from the applicant himself and from 14 the police department of really the failure to 15 manage this place in a competent way, is that this 16 committee was lied to. And I think that's 17 something this committee needs to take very 18 seriously. And it's one of the dilemmas we often 19 have with new applicants. It always sound good 20 and the neighbors have the same dilemma when we 21 have meetings that somebody wants to open a new 22 bar, there's always that dilemma among the 23 neighborhoods, are we getting hoodwinked here? 24 Well, in this case, the neighborhood got 25 hoodwinked. 67 1 And based on the police report, the 2 police testimony, the aldermanic testimony, the 3 testimony of the applicant himself, and, frankly, 4 the -- especially the changes in the business plan 5 in the actual operation from the business plan, 6 I'm going to move nonrenewal of this license. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The motion by Alderman 8 Kovac is to recommend nonrenewal of the licenses 9 based upon Items 1 through 6 in the police report 10 as well as additional testimony of Captain 11 Basting, the sergeant and two additional officers 12 from the Milwaukee Police Department as well as 13 noncompliance with the plan of operation that was 14 submitted last year by the applicant. Is there 15 any discussion on the motion? Are there any 16 objections to the motion? Hearing none, so 17 ordered. 18 Mr. Stephens. 19 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Thank you, Mr. 20 Chair. 21 The committee will be doing a report of 22 its finding of facts and conclusions of law 23 recommending to the Milwaukee Common Council that 24 your license be non-renewed. You will receive a 25 copy of that report. You will have an opportunity 68 1 to file written exceptions to that report. If you 2 do, they must be received by the city clerk by 3 4:45 p.m. three business days prior to the next 4 Common Council meeting, which is -- 5 MS. GRILL: March 23rd. 6 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: The next council 7 date is on March 23, 2011. 8 If you submit written objections, then 9 you also have the opportunity to appear before the 10 Milwaukee Common Council when it considers this 11 matter on March 23rd in the Common Council 12 Chambers in this building located on the same 13 floor you are at now but on the other side of the 14 building. 15 Please be advised that this report is a 16 recommendation to the full Common Council. The 17 full Common Council makes the final decision 18 whether your licenses will be renewed, renewed 19 with a suspension between 10 and 90 days or 20 non-renewed. Do you understand that, sir? 21 MR. CESARZ: Yes. 22 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: And which address 23 should this report be mailed to? 24 MR. CESARZ: Well, to make sure I get 25 the mail, 4958 South 20th Street. 69 1 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: And that would be in 2 addition to the business address that you provided 3 earlier? 4 MR. CESARZ: Yes, that's my legal 5 address. So that's where all of the other 6 correspondence from the city has been sent there. 7 And that's why it's kind of funny that I didn't 8 get any notice at all at that address. 9 ATTORNEY STEPHENS: Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Cesarz. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 70 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF WALWORTH ) 3 4 5 I, KAREN RENEE, Court Reporter and 6 Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, do 7 hereby certify that the above hearing was recorded by 8 me on March 7, 2011, and reduced to writing under my 9 personal direction. 10 I further certify that I am not a 11 relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of 12 the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney 13 or counsel, or financially interested directly or 14 indirectly in this action. 15 In witness whereof I have hereunder set 16 my hand and affixed my seal of office at Burlington, 17 Wisconsin, this 30th day of March, 2011. 18 19 ___________________________ 20 Karen Renee Court Reporter and Notary Public 21 In and for the State of Wisconsin 22 23 My Commission Expires: March 11, 2012. 24 25