00001 1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 2 LICENSES COMMITTEE HEARING 3 4 In the Matter of: 5 205 East North Avenue 6 "East Side Liquor, Inc." 7 6th Aldermanic District 8 9 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR. - Chairman 12 ALD. MILELE A. COGGS - Vice Chairman 13 ALD. ASHANTI HAMILTON 14 ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI 15 ALD. NIK KOVAC 16 17 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SERGEANT PAUL MacGILLIS 18 CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE by ADAM STEPHENS 19 20 MICHAEL MAISTLEMAN, Attorney at Law 21 22 Proceedings had and testimony given in the 23 above-entitled matter before the LICENSES COMMITTEE 24 OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE on March 7th, 2011. 00002 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 (All City Personnel duly affirmed.) 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: James Canady, Agent for 4 East Side Liquor, Incorporated, Class A Malt and 5 Class A Liquor License Application as Agent for East 6 Side Liquor at 205 East North Avenue. 7 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Good morning, Your 8 Excellencies. Attorney Mike Maistleman on behalf of 9 Mr. Canady, who appears next to me. We acknowledge 10 receiving the Notice. We disagree with everything on 11 it. It's late. We all want to go home. 12 (JAMES CANADY duly affirmed.) 13 MR. MAISTLEMAN: We do acknowledge 14 receiving Notice, Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. All right. 16 Let me just officially ask that so that I get it on 17 the record here. Name and mailing address for the 18 record, please. 19 THE WITNESS: James Canady, 4151 North 20 96th Street, Wauwatosa. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Mr. Canady, 22 you do acknowledge notice of today's meeting with the 23 possibility the application could be denied? 24 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Ms. Grill, are 00003 1 there holds? 2 MS. GRILL: Neighborhood Services has a 3 hold for occupancy, and the Health Department has a 4 hold for inspection. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: There was a request, Mr. 6 Maistleman, that we actually hold this item, but you 7 did want to provide an agreement with Alderwoman 8 Coggs and through my office -- 9 MR. MAISTLEMAN: It wasn't an agreement. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- to allow to opportunity 11 for neighbors to come forward and provide testimony? 12 MR. MAISTLEMAN: She told me what to do, 13 so I said yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We will at the next 15 hearing, because this is a new application, take up 16 the matter of the police report. We won't involve 17 that now at this point. I will just ask at this 18 point if there are any neighbors present here to 19 testify on the matter of the Class A Malt and Class A 20 Liquor Application for East Side Liquor at 205 East 21 North Avenue. Is there anyone present, show of 22 hands? Three individuals present. What we'll do is 23 we'll swear you in, we'll go through the same 24 protocol here. 25 (All speakers duly affirmed.) 00004 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just so you three 2 gentlemen understand here, there was a request that 3 was made late last week by the attorney here to ask 4 for additional time, but we wanted to, because the 5 Notice was already sent out, allow for individuals 6 already present to provide their testimony, where we 7 can have a transcript made, adjourn the item, and 8 then take it up at our next subsequent meeting. Your 9 testimony would stand because you are already 10 waiting. If you had know in advance, you could have 11 gone home and come back here and probably would have 12 saved yourself hours upon hours, but we want to 13 provide you now that you have waited an opportunity 14 to not have to come back again and that your 15 testimony would initially stand. 16 Of the three of you gentlemen who have now 17 been sworn in here, is there anyone who is here in 18 support of the license? All of you are in objection. 19 All right. What we will do is we will ask that you 20 all come forward. If you could take -- unless you 21 are physically unable, if you could take the standing 22 microphone here, we'll need your name and your 23 address for the record, and then we'll take your 24 testimony. 25 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. Before they 00005 1 begin, I just want to first acknowledge that there 2 was a whole lot of neighbors here earlier who had to 3 leave, so I respect and understand that, as well, but 4 they will have an opportunity to come at the next 5 hearing, and it will be notice and everything like 6 that, as well. 7 One of the residents did ask a question of 8 me, to which I said I would ask the city attorney on 9 record. This particular location has had 10 applications applied for in the past, I believe a 11 year ago, a different applicant, different 12 application but for the same physical location. It's 13 a lot of the same neighbors who are coming to 14 testify. It was inquired by a resident if that 15 testimony from a year ago could be used at this time 16 for this application, so I would ask of the city 17 attorney if you could answer that on the record. 18 MR. STEPHENS: Sure, Madame Vice-chair. 19 The Code and State Statutes generally require that 20 testimony be given in person and subject to 21 cross-examination by the applicant. The testimony 22 objecting or supporting stands on its own two feet 23 each year. So I don't think there would be a legal 24 nor an advisable way to basically issue a standing 25 complaint as a neighbor against all premises hereonto 00006 1 into the future forever. Unfortunately, for those 2 particular neighbors who would like to object to 3 every single application that comes across the desk, 4 they would have to come down and give either oral 5 testimony or written objections of some sort on a new 6 application per application. 7 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You knew that, but you 9 were doing your positive due diligence to make sure 10 that the city attorney was saying that objectively 11 and it's not just coming from you, and now that is 12 officially on the record. Thank you. We'll call 13 forward here the neighbors. 14 THE WITNESS: I'm Joe Spear. I live at 15 2410 North Palmer. That's a block away from the 16 proposed site. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Spear, the spelling of 18 your last name, please. 19 THE WITNESS: S-P-E-A-R. And for what it 20 matters, I'm a junior. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 22 patience here today. Long day for all of us. 23 THE WITNESS: That's all right. It's 24 worth it. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Your testimony, sir. 00007 1 THE WITNESS: My testimony is that I have 2 lived at that residence for six years. I have the 3 benefit of being able to walk to and from work, 4 except for the worse case weather conditions, so I 5 pass the location on a daily basis. During the time 6 that it operated previously for stores, we had litter 7 problems, prostitution problems, public drunkenness, 8 and truck drivers who like to park up the street 9 because it was easier to stop there and get a fifth 10 than it was to go a local bar. 11 In the year-and-a-half now it hasn't been 12 opened, we don't have litter problems, we don't have 13 prostitution, we don't have loitering. Yes, we still 14 have trucks park overnight but usually one or two. 15 Does my testifying now prevent me from testifying at 16 the next time? Because I plan on doing deeper 17 research. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Generally speaking, we 19 kind of try to shy away from it. Because of this 20 adjournment, if you have new and substantial 21 information here firsthand, then I will allow that 22 exception but -- 23 THE WITNESS: Rather than estimating what 24 the numbers are, I'll take my time and figure out the 25 number of liquor stores that are saturated that area. 00008 1 Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Do you want to 3 hold on here one moment. I'll just ask, are there 4 any questions by Committee? Mr. Maistelman, 5 questions of this witness? 6 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Yes. In the last few 7 years, you said you've seen prostitution. How often? 8 THE WITNESS: After the liquor store 9 closed, I've maybe seen one case of prostitution, and 10 the police busted the house that it was happening at, 11 which happens to be across the street from the liquor 12 store, and they've changed who the residents are 13 since then. 14 MR. MAISTLEMAN: So when you saw what 15 you're alleging as illegal activity, did you notify 16 the police? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 MR. MAISTLEMAN: I have no further 19 questions. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 21 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Next witness, please. 23 THE WITNESS: My name is Lauren Manske. I 24 live at 2114 North 1st Street. I've been in the 25 residence about three years now but living in the 00009 1 neighborhood, I was in Brewer's Hill prior to that, 2 so six years I've lived in the area, and I've walked 3 the area. I feel if this establishment is allowed to 4 come back, it will increase problems in the 5 neighborhood. I've spoken to my former residents, 6 and we spoke to littering and loitering are most of 7 the problems that I've seen. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 9 Committee? Mr. Maistleman. 10 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Have you observed 11 individuals coming from this liquor store when it was 12 open in the past actually littering? 13 THE WITNESS: No, sir. But I do walk my 14 dog in the neighborhood, so I did see the litter from 15 the various establishments. 16 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Manske. 18 Next witness, please. 19 THE WITNESS: My name is Barry Spencer, 20 mailing address is 3198 Menomonee River Parkway, 21 Wauwatosa. I'm the parish administrator at St. 22 Marcus Lutheran Church and School, which is directly 23 across the street from the liquor store. I moved 24 into the area to take this job position in the fall 25 of 2006 when the liquor store was open, and as the 00010 1 new administrator, I would take pride in walking 2 around the property, again, to see what was going on 3 and had opportunity to see the panhandling that would 4 occur in front of the liquor store and be approached 5 personally. New to the area, it's an interesting 6 thing to have to deal with by a boy from up north, 7 but dealt with it. 8 Also, I'm kind of the in-the-building 9 person that would be contacted when there would be 10 issues in the parking lot such as panhandling, so I 11 would be called to the front office of the school and 12 try to deal with those situations. The same with 13 panhandling actually occurring inside of the 14 facility, to try to address those situations, as 15 well, which would then pretty much lead into the 16 person either coming to or from the liquor store, 17 obviously drinking, alcohol on the breath, and having 18 issues with public crime, if you will. 19 There was an incident where children are 20 playing in the big parking lot, which is directly 21 across the street, and watching breaking and entering 22 into the facility and calling the police to have them 23 address that situation, and it's somewhat traumatic 24 for the kids to kind of see that occur and the 25 teachers have to deal with that. 00011 1 St. Marcus Church is somewhat of an anchor 2 in the community, currently investing about $8 3 million in the neighborhood and building an addition 4 to our school, which will totally house about 600 5 students in the neighborhood, K-4 through 8. So 6 we're making a pretty big investment in the 7 neighborhood. We're proud of the neighborhood, we 8 want to serve the neighborhood, serve all the 9 families in the neighborhood, and feel as though the 10 liquor store is an eyesore to that. Currently not 11 open for the last year-and-a-half, I would concur 12 that in the last year-and-a-half or so since it has 13 not been opened, we have had no issues whatsoever. 14 So it has been when the store was open is when we do 15 have the issues. 16 So our strong belief is that if the 17 building were to remain closed and an eyesore, we 18 would consider that better than if the building was 19 open as a liquor store. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 21 testimony. Questions by Committee? Mr. Maistelman, 22 questions? 23 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Sir, correct me if I'm 24 wrong, but you stated, I believe, that there was 25 panhandling going on inside the facility; is that 00012 1 correct? 2 THE WITNESS: Inside of which facility? 3 MR. MAISTLEMAN: I don't know. That's 4 what you said, your words, inside the facility. 5 THE WITNESS: That's correct, our 6 facility. 7 MR. MAISTLEMAN: So people would come into 8 your school? 9 THE WITNESS: Correct. 10 MR. MAISTLEMAN: So how do you know that 11 they came from -- Did you observe them walking from 12 the liquor store into your school? 13 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 14 MR. MAISTLEMAN: You did personally? 15 THE WITNESS: Correct. 16 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Did you call the police? 17 THE WITNESS: We did not call the police. 18 MR. MAISTLEMAN: You did not. Okay, 19 that's fine. So there were people panhandling, 20 coming from a liquor store. I presume children were 21 in the school; is that correct? 22 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. 23 MR. MAISTLEMAN: They're walking around 24 asking people for money, and you didn't call the 25 police. Okay. You're investing $8 million in the 00013 1 community, is that what you said? 2 THE WITNESS: Correct. 3 MR. MAISTLEMAN: How much do you guys pay 4 in property taxes? 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: That's not a relevant 6 question here. For this particular hearing, it's not 7 a relevant question. 8 MR. MAISTLEMAN: He raised it as an issue 9 that he's investing $8 million in the community. I'm 10 wondering who's benefitting from that investment. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: They're not applying for a 12 liquor license. You could come object and raise that 13 issue. Unless you're going to object to communion 14 wine served at the church here perhaps. 15 MR. MAISTLEMAN: There's been a bar and a 16 liquor store in that area for probably almost 50, 60 17 years. How long has the school been there? 18 THE WITNESS: 1865. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: There's been a school 20 at -- 21 THE WITNESS: 1875, I'm sorry. 135-year 22 anniversary we just had. 23 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: That's called 24 grandfathered. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I may be wrong, but I'll 00014 1 guess that that precedes a liquor store at that 2 location. 3 MR. MAISTLEMAN: That's back then when the 4 kids could drink legally. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Let's put it this way. I 6 don't know, that even precedes the red light district 7 being across the from City Hall here. 8 MR MAISTLEMAN: What do you know about 9 that? I have no further questions. 10 Sir, if I wanted to talk to you, because 11 one of the reasons I asked for the adjournment was to 12 try to put together -- was to meet with the neighbors 13 and the folks in the area and see what exactly your 14 concerns were and then try to put together a game 15 plan that would meet the neighbors' satisfaction to 16 whatever degree. So would I be contacting you if I 17 wanted to talk to someone? 18 THE WITNESS: Correct. 19 MR. MAISTLEMAN: You're Mr. Spencer? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Thank you. Thank you for 22 allowing us to get out of your life. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 24 patience here today. With that, Alderwoman Coggs 25 would move to hold this matter at the call of the 00015 1 Chair, and hearing no objections to that, so ordered. 2 I will request that we have a transcript of this 3 particular item that will be included. 4 MR. MAISTLEMAN: And that would be sent to 5 us? 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And then that would also 7 hopefully be provided to the Applicant, as well, too. 8 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Once we've done our due 9 diligence and met the people that we need to meet 10 with, I was going to then notify the Alderwoman and 11 then we'll have this rescheduled? 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 13 MR. MAISTLEMAN: Thank you. 14 * * * 00016 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 2 ) 3 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 4 5 I, TERESE M. SCHIEBENES, of Milwaukee 6 Reporters Associated, Inc., 5120 West Blue Mound 7 Road, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the 8 foregoing proceedings is a full and complete 9 transcript of my stenographic notes taken in the 10 foregoing proceedings. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 TERESE M. SCHIEBENES 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 Dated this day of , 2011. 22 23 24 25