00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Application for A food license of:: 6 EDGAR BIRDSONG, III 7 5922 North 76th Street 8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 10 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair 11 ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK 12 ALD. ROBERT PUENTE ALD. WILLIE WADE 13 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON 14 NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE 15 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SERGAENT CHESTER ULICKEY OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 16 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 30th day of October, 2006. 22 23 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Next - - Next item 3 on the agenda - - Excuse me - - File number 4 060817. A motion relating to the application for 5 a food license of Edgar Birdsong, III at 5922 6 North 76th Street. 7 Would you be Mr. Birdsong? 8 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Good morning. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And - - And 10 you are, ma'am? 11 THE WITNESS: My name is Coral Hegwood. 12 I'm a resident of the area. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And let the 14 record show Alderman Davis appears in this 15 matter, also. Could you please raise your right 16 hands? We'll swear you in. 17 (Whereupon those present were sworn.) 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Birdsong, 19 please state your name and address for the 20 record. 21 THE APPLICANT: Edgar L. Birdsong, III, 22 5922 North 76th Street. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 24 Birdsong, do you acknowledge receipt of a letter 25 and police report noting that your application 00003 1 for a food dealer license at 5922 North 76th 2 Street, also known as Birdsong's Distribution, 3 may be denied based on objection from the local 4 Alderman? 5 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. The police 7 report, please, Sergeant Ulickey? 8 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Mr. Birdsong had a 9 warrant - - an immediate arrest warrant for 10 entering and remaining in a gambling place with 11 an attempt to gamble. That warrant was 12 satisfied. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 14 Any questions about that police report? Does 15 that sound - - Is that correct? 16 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Can I make a 17 statement regarding that? 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 19 THE APPLICANT: Well, it was a 20 situation where I was observing gambling. I 21 wasn't gambling, but I shouldn't have been in 22 that position, but I just want to say that I 23 wasn't gambling. No. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. 25 Alderman Davis, would you state your case here, 00004 1 please, for the committee? 2 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman, members of the committee. This is an 4 area around Madison High School. We've had 5 tremendous problems along that strip mall. And 6 currently you - - And this is - - Mrs. Hegwood is 7 actually a member of a block club that recently 8 held a meeting concerning this specific matter. 9 And it was overwhelming that the block club in 10 that area objected to granting this food dealer 11 license based upon not only Mr. Birdsong's issue 12 as far as the involved in gambling, but also, 13 because of the problems that we have in that 14 strip mall with a lot of the youth loitering. 15 Currently right now you'll see a lot of broken 16 windows in that strip mall. And it has been an 17 ongoing problem, not only with specifically a - - 18 a laundromat where young people actually loiter, 19 but frequenting shops and also, truancy that's up 20 in that area. We have spent a tremendous amount 21 of police resources in that area with Madison 22 High School, and I can go through time and time 23 again what incidents occurs up at Madison High 24 School, specifically with the kids transitioning 25 down 76th Street. Recently, a couple of gunshots 00005 1 and a young man who actually got taken into 2 custody. 3 You're asking me why is this 4 significant? Because we've had problems at the 5 Citgo gas station which is located less than a 6 half a mile from this particular location that 7 currently sells the same type of items that Mr. 8 Birdsong would like to sell. We think that it - 9 - this is not conducive to the maintaining of the 10 integrity of the neighborhood. And that is the 11 reason why I express my objections to granting of 12 this food dealer's license. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 14 Alderman Davis. Mr. Birdsong, I just have a 15 couple questions for you, first. 16 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Your business is 18 located in a - - a strip mall? 19 THE APPLICANT: Yes, in the center of 20 the strip. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Center of the 22 strip mall. 23 THE APPLICANT: Um-hnh. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Approximately how 25 many square feet do you have? 00006 1 THE APPLICANT: 1500. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: 1500 square feet. 3 And what sort of activity do you conduct there at 4 this time? 5 THE APPLICANT: It's a gift and novelty 6 shop. And I sell like African products, incense, 7 body oil. But I would say that 90 percent of my 8 customers are under the age of 20. And I have 9 like clothing, T-shirts, et cetera. But I think 10 that granting me a license would help me with the 11 young crowd in the young area. And I do agree 12 with the Alderman in every way. I'm - - The area 13 has a lot of vandalism, and I'm scared. 14 But I don't think that has any 15 relevance to me applying for a license for 16 selling soda, candy and potato chips. To the 17 left of me, three stores to the left is a 18 restaurant that sells soda, candy and potato 19 chips. Three stores to the right of me is a CD 20 store that sells soda, candy and potato chips. 21 So I just don't understand why I would be tar - - 22 not targeted but - - That's all. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: How long have you 24 been in business? 25 THE APPLICANT: I've been at this 00007 1 location for a year. I've been in business for 2 three years. I also have another location in 3 which I don't sell soda, candy and potato chips. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And you 5 said 90 percent of your - - 6 THE APPLICANT: I would say 80 - - 7 between 80 and 90 percent of the customers are 8 under the age of 20. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Under the age of 10 20. 11 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And if I could 13 just ask Alderman Davis. Are - - Are your - - 14 Are your concerns related to loitering and 15 truancy and things of that nature? 16 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Absolutely. And - - 17 And it has been justified, specifically this 18 summer, when the kids are out of school. It's 19 very uncontrollable at that specific strip mall. 20 And as I go around and I talk to the businesses 21 in that area, I continue to make it a concern of 22 the amount of the uncontrolled atmosphere. And 23 there are certain businesses that are attracting 24 those particular youths in that area. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Are there 00008 1 loitering problems with the - - Alderman Davis, 2 are you familiar with the other two places that 3 the applicant is referring to? The other two 4 places that sell chips and candy and soda that 5 are in that same strip mall? 6 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Well, the Gyro place 7 recently just went out of business, so - - 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: That was one of 9 them? 10 THE APPLICANT: And now they just 11 opened up a new establishment called Jilly's 12 Restaurant, and it's really a spin-off of the 13 same Gyro. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 15 ALDERMAN DAVIS: And because of me not 16 really getting a - - a - - any information from 17 the Health Department, I would assume that the 18 Health Department just granted their - - their 19 license before. So with this particular license, 20 I've discussed this with Mr. Birdsong, 21 specifically about the personal activity and, 22 also, what - - what is being attracted to this 23 particular establishment. And I'm very concerned 24 that it's going to continue to create an 25 instability in that neighborhood. 00009 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Ma'am, could you 2 state your name and address, and we'll hear your 3 testimony, please? 4 THE WITNESS: My name is Coral Hegwood, 5 H-E-G-W-O-O-D. My address is 5766 North 80th 6 Street. I'm part of the Grantosa Heights 7 Blockwatch Club, and we are concerned with the 8 loitering and the kids, and Mr. Birdsong's 9 establishment currently is selling soda and 10 chips, and all of that. And there are - - There 11 has been a lot of loitering on days when school 12 is in session. And there has - - It's very 13 difficult for the people around there to find 14 some balance. I - - I believe that people should 15 have businesses, and - - and I - - and I 16 encourage people to have businesses. But also, 17 you have to be accountable when there are - - is 18 loitering and there are problems. And it's very 19 difficult in this day and age and time to - - for 20 - - for anyone that lives in the area to say 21 anything to the kids when they are there 22 loitering. So this is our concern. Plus with 23 all of the robberies, and everything else that 24 has been going on in that area, it is just a very 25 hard - - hard time, and I - - I don't wish Mr. 00010 1 Birdsong well in his business, but I just don't 2 believe that, that selling candy and potato chips 3 is necessarily something that needs to be done at 4 that establishment. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I hope you meant 6 you don't wish him bad in this business. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't wish him bad in 8 his current business. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. I have a 10 question here now. You say he's already selling 11 soda, chips and candy. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf, do 14 you need a food dealer's license for that? 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: I seem to recall that if 16 the - - if the items are prepackaged, you don't, 17 or do you? 18 MR. ZEMKE: Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mister - - 20 MR. ZEMKE: He would need to have a 21 food dealer's license to sell those items, and it 22 would be my indication at this point that he has 23 not been granted the license. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Birdsong, do 25 you realize that you're - - Do you sell soda, 00011 1 candy and chips? 2 THE APPLICANT: Yes. And - - 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Do you realize 4 that you're doing that in violation of - - 5 THE APPLICANT: Well, an inspector came 6 into my store and granted me a violation, and 7 said that I needed to apply for a food dealer's 8 license. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Didn't you 10 know that? 11 THE APPLICANT: No. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, you didn't. 13 THE APPLICANT: No. 14 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Davis. 16 ALDERMAN DAVIS: It is - - Because I 17 work with block clubs in that area, the reason 18 why we're trying to get a hold of things of this 19 - - this nature, and we'll continue to make sure 20 that businesses understand what they're supposed 21 to do in order for them to operate legally. I 22 have observed the chips that are pretty much 23 right out in front for sale, and also, the cooler 24 that's in back for the sale of - - of beverages. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 00012 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 2 Mr. Schrimpf? 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Birdsall, so as I 4 understand it, you - - Birdsong, I'm sorry. You 5 currently have this business that you have 6 described. Is that correct? 7 THE APPLICANT: Yes, that's correct. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: And you've indicated 9 that there are two businesses on either side of 10 you selling the same products. 11 THE APPLICANT: See - - Yes, that's 12 correct. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are they in close - - 14 Are they right next door to you, or are they in 15 the same mall? 16 THE APPLICANT: Same strip as - - as I 17 am, but three stores down to the right, and maybe 18 four stores down to the left, selling the same 19 items. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: And what are the hours 21 of operation, first of all, of those stores? 22 THE APPLICANT: Ten to eight is for the 23 - - the CD store, and I think it's 11 to ten for 24 the restaurant. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: And what are your hours 00013 1 of operation? 2 THE APPLICANT: Ten to eight, Monday 3 through Friday. Ten to seven on Saturday, and 11 4 to five on Sunday. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: And do you intend to 6 change those hours at all or not? 7 THE APPLICANT: Maybe Sunday. Sunday's 8 been rather slow. So I would probably not open 9 Sunday anymore. 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: And I - - I guess the 11 question that I have for the objectors is if this 12 store - - if Mr. Birdsong's store is denied a 13 food dealer's license, how is that going to 14 impact the activity in the mall one way or the 15 other? 16 ALDERMAN DAVIS: I can answer that 17 question. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 19 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Because we worked with 20 the previous restaurant, the restaurant did close 21 because of the loitering issue. On this specific 22 issue I was very much concerned about the - - the 23 conviction of the gambling, which will lead to 24 loitering and other activity out of that 25 establishment. And my concern is that it creates 00014 1 an instability within that strip mall. And with 2 the other establishment, one is not so much of a 3 big store, and that is not their main product in 4 which they sell. The other product that - - And 5 now I'm going to have to go and back up to the 6 strip mall for the restaurant, because the last 7 time that I checked that Gyro place was closed, 8 and ask the Health Department to do a complete 9 inspection on that area. Because we had problems 10 with loitering out of that establishment, also. 11 And I do - - I thank you, Mr. Schrimpf, for 12 raising that question. Because my objections 13 weren't to gambling, but the gambling issue had 14 to do with loitering, or potential loitering that 15 could occur. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 17 Chairman. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is there anyone 19 else here to testify relative to 5922 North 76th 20 Street, the - - the food dealer's application for 21 Mr. Birdsong? Any questions by members of the 22 committee? 23 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 25 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Alderman Davis, just 00015 1 so I'm clear. Approximately how far is the high 2 school you referred to to this particular strip 3 mall? 4 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Alderman Dudzik, I 5 would say four or five blocks. 6 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you. That's 7 all. Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Any further 9 questions by members of the committee? Okay. 10 Mr. Birdsong, do you have something to say in 11 closing before we take this matter into 12 committee? 13 THE APPLICANT: Yes. I would say that 14 even if I wasn't granting a license - - granted a 15 license, I would say that the loi - - the 16 loitering would still continue. Because it's 17 just a young crowd in the area. That's pretty 18 much what it is. Now, I work with the local 19 kids. I think I have a very good rapport with 20 the local kids. I support a lot of local groups, 21 and I think my store has been exemplary, you 22 know. I'm - - I'm trying to be a rodel - - I 23 mean, a model business man, and I would just 24 really appreciate if you would give me the 25 opportunity. 00016 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Davis, 2 anything to say in closing? 3 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 4 It's clear that Mr. Birdsong is operating 5 illegally currently right now. And there has 6 been no doubt that we do have problems in that 7 area. My intention is to work with the block 8 clubs that's in that area in order for us to 9 address those problems. Medium income and medium 10 home ownership in that area is up. Area assessed 11 prices of homes in that area is somewhere around 12 130,000 to about 160,000. This block club is 13 very active. Not only do they meet at Madison 14 High School, but they also meet up - - up at the 15 Mill Road Library. And currently, they are very 16 involved in the re-establishment a common area 17 playfield and - - and also, are doing outreach 18 with youth groups that's in that area. 19 Now, Mr. Birdsong says that he's 20 involved in youth groups in that area. I am very 21 active in the area in which I represent, and I 22 don't know of any youth groups that he is 23 involved in currently right now - - 24 THE APPLICANT: I'm sorry. I - - 25 ALDERMAN DAVIS: - - in that particular 00017 1 area. 2 THE APPLICANT: I meant I support - - 3 Okay. I'm sorry. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Davis. 5 ALDERMAN DAVIS: So, you know, in - - 6 in conclusion, I would hope that the committee 7 would deny this license. It's just, you know, 8 one of the things that we as aldermen have to do 9 in order for us to maintain the stability in the 10 neighborhood in which we represent. 11 Specifically, when we have high schools and we 12 can't determine what happens at the high school. 13 But when the high school is actually let out, it 14 becomes very uncontrollable. And it becomes a 15 magnet to those kids who get out of school. And 16 I don't want to spend most of my time trying to 17 monitor a business. I would hope that a business 18 would monitor itself. But I spend a lot of time 19 walking up in that strip mall, and I see a lot of 20 businesses who are not operating the way that 21 they should be. So I would hope that you would - 22 - I hope the committee would deny this license. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 24 Birdsong, did you - - you had - - Is there some 25 misinformation or something that - - You wanted 00018 1 to say something before I cut you off? 2 THE APPLICANT: Well, no. I said that 3 I support the kids in like their football teams. 4 I give money for, like sponsorships for the 5 football team. I didn't mean - - I'm sorry. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So you don't - - 7 You don't have like an organized - - 8 THE APPLICANT: No support groups. I 9 apologize for that. 10 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 12 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Birdsong, are you 13 - - Right now, if I were to drive to your store. 14 THE APPLICANT: Um-hnh. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: Would there be chips, 16 soda, candy for sale right now? 17 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Because my - - my 18 application is pending. Pending. 19 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Zemke, is that - - 20 He doesn't have the - - the free rein to sell 21 those items barring an approval by the Council. 22 Is that correct? 23 MR. ZEMKE: That is correct. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: This matter's in 25 committee. 00019 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 3 ALDERMAN BOHL: I - - I would just say 4 that - - Mr. Birdsong, up until the last moment 5 here, I - - I was prepared to make a motion for 6 approval. My feeling is that at Madison High 7 School, I don't know that - - that you're not 8 selling chips and soda is going to prevent 9 loitering on 76th Street, 76th and Florist. 76th 10 and Florist is - - is an absolutely - - can - - 11 can at times be absolutely a horrendous situation 12 while we have students waiting for the bus and 13 just large crowds of - - of young people. 14 You know, I - - I really have problems 15 when at times that, you know, we always point the 16 finger at the business and say that for - - the 17 business is culpable for the conduct of the 18 individuals rather than point to the finger of 19 the individuals and say they ought to be culpable 20 for their own conduct. 21 That being said, Mr. Birdsong, there 22 just isn't any excuse if you are informed that 23 pending this - - the - - the approval of this, 24 that you are not supposed to sell. You pull 25 those things off the shelves, come here, say as 00020 1 soon as I found out I pulled them off the shelf, 2 I made my best case here. I'm going to at this 3 point move for denial. I - - I just - - To me 4 there - - there just isn't an excuse for that. 5 So, you know, if you would have - - If you would 6 have dotted your "I"s and crossed your tre - - 7 your "T"s, I may have made a different motion. 8 But I just don't believe that - - that - - that 9 shows a level of responsibility. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 11 Bohl is to recommend denial based on testimony 12 and evidence revealed here. Any discussion on 13 the motion? 14 I'll just mention something, also. 15 Alderman Bohl is exactly correct. I'll tell you 16 what. If I had gone in and opened up a gift shop 17 and then at some point I decided to sell chips, 18 candy and soda. You know what? I would not have 19 known that I needed a food dealer's license 20 either. I - - I probably think - - I'd probably 21 think about it now, because I have this job, but 22 before that time, if I had just gone and opened a 23 store and said, well I can order chips, and soda, 24 candy and sell it, I would have thought nothing 25 of it. 00021 1 However, if somebody that - - If 2 somebody official from the City would have come 3 to see me and said, "Now wait a minute. You need 4 a license for that," I said, "You know what? I 5 had no idea. Who would have ever thought that." 6 Right? And then I would - - Then I would have 7 immediately put the stuff away and said, "Now 8 I'll go down and apply for a license today," and 9 not sold it until I was granted such a license. 10 Because I think you hurt yourself a little bit 11 here. So based on that, I'll support the motion. 12 Anything further? 13 Motion by Alderman Bohl is to recommend 14 denial. And hearing no objections, so ordered. 15 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, just so 16 that everybody is aware of the fact, this is one 17 of these things where the ordinances require even 18 a new license to have findings of fact. So, the 19 committee is going to be doing findings of fact 20 and conclusions of law recommending denial of 21 this license. You'll receive a copy of those 22 conclusions and recommendations. You'll have an 23 opportunity to submit written objections to that 24 recommendation, as well as appear before the 25 Milwaukee Common Council when it meets on this 00022 1 matter at approximately nine a.m. on November 2 14th, 2006 in the Common Council Chambers of this 3 building, the same floor but the opposite end. 4 Okay. 5 And, Mr. Chairman, for the record that 6 is Section 68-4-6-C of the ordinances. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Thank 8 you for your appearance. 9 * * * * * * 10 00023 1 2 STATE OF WISCONSIN) 3 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 4 5 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 6 Associated, Inc., do certify that the foregoing 7 transcript was reduced to writing under my direction 8 and that it is a true and accurate transcription of 9 the Licenses Committee Hearing held on October 30, 10 2006. 11 12 13 JEAN M. BARINA - COURT REPORTER 14 Dated this day of November, 2006 15 16 17