1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 2 LICENSES COMMITTEE HEARING 3 4 In the Matter of: 5 "TOXIC" 2060 North 24th Street 6 7 8 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 9 ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR. - Chairman ALD. MILELE A. COGGS - Vice Chairman 10 ALD. ASHANTI HAMILTON ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI 11 ALD. NIK KOVAC 12 CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE by ADAM STEPHENS 13 14 Proceedings had and testimony given in the 15 above-entitled matter before the LICENSES COMMITTEE OF 16 THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE on September 8th, 2010, before 17 Terese M. Schiebenes of Milwaukee Reporters 18 Associated, Inc. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MILWAUKEE REPORTERS ASSOCIATED, INC. (414) 771-5253 2 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 (All City Personnel were duly sworn.) 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Brian Crawford. Class B 4 Tavern Renewal application for Toxic, at 2060 North 5 24th Street in the 15th District. 6 MS. GRILL: Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Grill. 8 MS. GRILL: I did receive a phone call from 9 Mr. Crawford indicating that he wasn't able to come to 10 the hearing today, and I advised him that I would let 11 the Committee know that. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: This is the third renewal 13 without issuance, so he's actually been renewed, but 14 he's never actually adequately picked up over three 15 consecutive years the application. He has not been 16 operating then; is that correct? 17 MS. GRILL: That's correct. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Normally under law, what's 19 the limitation that's provided? 20 MS. GRILL: After the first renewal period, 21 they are to be rescheduled before the Committee, which 22 makes the recommendation to the Council as to 23 continuance of the license. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Runner, is there any 25 input that you have from the Alderman's office? 3 1 LEGISLATIVE AIDE: I know there are some 2 neighbors here in objection, and Alderman Hines' 3 office is in objection. That's really all I have. We 4 have not been in contact. He's not contacted us. We 5 do have concerns. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll call it one more time. 7 Brian L. Crawford, Class B Tavern Renewal application 8 for Toxic, at 2060 Noth 24th Street or a 9 representative thereof? Let the record reflect that 10 no one does acknowledge that. This is the third 11 renewal without this license being issued. 12 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 14 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Even though they haven't 15 picked up the license, they have been operating? 16 LEGISLATIVE AIDE: They've been closed for 17 three years, at least. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What happened, Alderman, is 19 they would have gotten approval, and the license would 20 have been held by the License Division because they 21 would not have gotten proper orders lifted and/or made 22 a payment or whatever combination thereof. They would 23 have never obtained the license, so I'm going to 24 guess, unless they were operating illegally -- 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I'm looking at one 4 1 incident here on the police report that said that they 2 conducted a premise check and they did not have a 3 valid Class B Tavern License. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for that question. 5 Alderman Hamilton would move to make the entire police 6 report part of our permanent record for this location, 7 and hearing no objections to that, so ordered. 8 Can I see a show of hands from residents who 9 are present here. I see four hands here. Are you all 10 here in opposition to this license? 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: We don't want it open. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Do not want it open? 13 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What I'm going to do here 15 for the record is I'm going to just ask you to come 16 forward. If you could provide your name and address 17 and if you can leave your testimony very brief. I 18 believe right now you're going to get a Committee 19 recommendation to deny this license here, based on the 20 non-appearance, the fact that we have a police report, 21 and the fact that this has gone three consecutive 22 years without legal issuance of the license. Come 23 forward. I think we have four seats. If you wish, 24 you can take the four seats here. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you all for your 5 1 patience here today. 2 (All speakers duly affirmed.) 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sir, we'll start with you, 4 if you could, your name and mailing address for our 5 record, please. 6 THE WITNESS: My name is Robert Duncan. I 7 live at 2403 West Lloyd, 53205, directly across the 8 street from the bar. My thing is I've been living 9 there for five years. My house been shot up. I wake 10 up sometimes 12:00 at night, 20 people sitting on my 11 porch that I don't know, whiskey bottles, beer 12 bottles, marijuana butts all over there. I got to 13 tell them to get off there, or I call the police all 14 the time to get them off there. I have a two-year-old 15 baby, and I'm tired of my house getting shot up. Now 16 I'm really getting scared. That's it. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The shooting and other 18 activity, were any of those concerns affiliated with 19 the operation -- 20 THE WITNESS: Of the bar. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: -- at this location? 22 THE WITNESS: Yes, it was. At night -- I 23 stay on the corner, so they be selling drugs outside 24 my house. My house is made like an L, so they can run 25 around the house and hide from the police officers and 6 1 stuff. At 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, they be out 2 there cussing and fussing. Not only men, it be women, 3 too. And the bar close, and there are still 25, 30 4 people out there. I talked to Lou about that before 5 she passed away, and at that time, she closed up, she 6 just get in the car and leave, forget about who stay 7 on that block or their safety. They're shooting dice 8 and everything out there. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Questions by 10 Committee? 11 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderwoman Coggs. 13 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: So in the last year, has 14 this location been open? 15 THE WITNESS: No. They been closed about 16 two years now. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions? Thank you, 18 sir, for your testimony. Ma'am, your testimony, 19 please. 20 THE WITNESS: I'm Ida Grant, 2029 North 23rd 21 Street. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Ms. Grant. Your 23 testimony. 24 THE WITNESS: I just wanted to say that I'm 25 opposed to the tavern reopening. 7 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Did you experience any 2 problems with the previous operation at this location? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. Just noise in the middle 4 of the morning, you know, because my bedroom window is 5 right near the alley. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Have you experienced this 7 place being open at all in the last two years 8 operating at all? 9 THE WITNESS: It's been a little more than 10 two years, yes. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: In the interim time? 12 THE WITNESS: It's been closed. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But you haven't experienced 14 where they've perhaps done some illegal openings at 15 times or had parties or anything there in the last two 16 years? Do you have any knowledge of that? 17 THE WITNESS: No. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You don't, okay. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the legal 20 hours were. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 22 testimony. Questions by Committee? Thank you, ma'am. 23 Sir, your testimony. 24 THE WITNESS: My name is Albert Grant. I 25 live at 2027 North 23rd Street, 53205. 8 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And your testimony, sir. 2 THE WITNESS: I live probably about 400 3 feet, as my mother does, behind this tavern. My 4 mother's been there for the past -- since I was five 5 years old, so I won't tell you how many years that's 6 been, but I've moved back into the house next door. 7 Ipurchased the house next door, and my bedroom, when 8 the window is open and the tavern is having a party, I 9 can hear it like it's in my back yard. That block has 10 11 vacant lots, it has four rental properties and five 11 homeowners on that block, which makes it a very 12 caustic neighborhood far as prostitution, crime, 13 drugs, you name it, the whole gamut of what you've 14 been hearing about here already today and abandoned 15 houses, which opens us this up for prostitution and 16 just some of everything. So the neighborhood is 17 barely tolerable as it is, and to add insult to injury 18 by allowing -- what's the name of it -- Toxic to 19 operate there I think would be counterproductive to 20 the goals of the City of Milwaukee and I'm sure 21 Alderman Hines. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you for your 23 testimony, sir. Questions by Committee? 24 MR. STEPHENS: Mr. Chair. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Stephens. 9 1 MR. STEPHENS: Sir, you testified that you 2 could hear when the tavern was having a party. Can 3 you indicate when you heard that happening? 4 THE WITNESS: It's been since the tavern was 5 closed. If they have a DJ and it's hot, they open the 6 back door, and it just proliferates all the way 7 through the neighborhood. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Smith, has this been in 9 the last year? 10 THE WITNESS: No, sir. It's been at least 11 two or three years ago. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Since you heard those 13 parties, two or three years ago? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. There's been no 15 activity. These two gentlemen live in close 16 proximity, and they can tell you, but there's been no 17 activity there. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I wonder, there are a couple 19 of items in the police report for times where police 20 were called and were out there for liquor -- what they 21 call liquor license required, where they would have 22 gone out there, and they would have seen activities on 23 the premise. One would have been in January of 2009, 24 there was another occasion, a couple of occasions in 25 January of 2009. Would that corroborate, perhaps, 10 1 with some of the times in which you experienced this? 2 THE WITNESS: No. Because that was only a 3 year ago. I can't recall. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're thinking maybe it was 5 even 2008 or so? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. And I did call the 7 police, and my response was well, it's a tavern and 8 there wasn't a whole lot they could do. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 10 THE WITNESS: My name is Luther Chambers, 11 and I stay at 2046 North 24th Street. I stay directly 12 next door to the tavern, and they basically said 13 everything. Just keep it closed, that's all I want. 14 I just want it to stay closed. I got small kids, too. 15 I got bullet holes in my house, too. We just want it 16 closed. It's bad enough in the neighborhood. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. Chambers. 18 Questions by Committee? Mr. Runner. 19 LEGISLATIVE AIDE: Just because of all this 20 testimony and other calls that we've gotten from 21 residents, that's why Alderman Hines is opposed. 22 Alderman Hines did get some complaints that it was 23 opening illegally, and he did call the district 24 captain about it, so that may have led to some of the 25 incidents, but I don't know, maybe they weren't of the 11 1 level or loud enough for the neighbors to hear, but he 2 had gotten some complaints that they were opening 3 illegally. We're just absolutely opposed and don't 4 think it would add anything to the neighborhood, and 5 we feel like it would be negative. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Ms. Stevens, I'm 7 going to ask you to go through your recitation with 8 Ms. Grill. 9 MR. STEPHENS: Ms. Grill, was notice mailed 10 to the Licensee on Wednesday, August 25th, 2010 by 11 United States first-class mail in an envelope bearing 12 the return address of the License Division and 13 addressed to the Licensee at 4120 North 14th Street, 14 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53209? 15 MS. GRILL: Yes. 16 MR. STEPHENS: Was the address of 4120 North 17 14th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53209 the address 18 given by the Licensee on his application? 19 MS. GRILL: Yes, as a mailing address. 20 MR. STEPHENS: Did the notice include a copy 21 of the police report and/or any other documents? 22 MS. GRILL: Yes. 23 MR. STEPHENS: And was the notice or the 24 police report returned to the License Division by the 25 United States Postal Service? 12 1 MS. GRILL: No, it was not. 2 MR. STEPHENS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. With that, we 4 are in Committee. 5 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 7 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I'm going to move for 8 denial, based on Item 10 and Item 11 of the police 9 report and also neighborhood testimony as to 10 shootings, prostitution, and drug activity. Wait a 11 minute. See if that was in the report. Loud music 12 and noise, drug and criminal activity, and 13 prostitution. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: As well as non-appearance? 15 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: As well as 16 non-appearance, Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So the testimony -- Mr. 18 Stevens. 19 MR. STEPHENS: Thank you. Just for purposes 20 of the record, however, though, I would note that 21 clearly there is evidence to show that the behavior 22 has occurred in the neighborhood, as testified by the 23 objectors, however, given there's other evidence to 24 say that this business hasn't been opened, at least to 25 their knowledge, so attributing that behavior to this 13 1 licensed premises for purposes of making a decision 2 here would be problematic. I think the better course 3 may be that based upon the nonrenewal and therefore 4 the non-response to these charges and in addition to 5 the items that are in the police report that seem to 6 indicate this place was open when they should not have 7 been, and in light of the fact that the Licensee has 8 failed to comply with the ordinance that was cited in 9 the notice relative to not -- failing to have the City 10 Clerk issue the license pursuant to Milwaukee Code of 11 Ordinances 90-11-1-F, that would be, I think, the 12 cleanest factual basis for the nonrenewal. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. 14 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I just wanted clarification 16 on the motion, Alderwoman Coggs. Is that a whatever 17 he said? 18 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, whatever he said. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll try my best to recite 20 that. Motion by Alderman Hamilton is to recommend 21 denial, based on non-appearance, denial based on the 22 Applicant's failure to comply with the Milwaukee Code 23 of Ordinances 90-11-1-F, it would be a denial based on 24 Items 10 and 11 in the police report as well as -- 25 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Non-appearance. 14 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I believe I stated that. As 2 well as additional testimony that has been provided to 3 corroborate with concerns relating to Items 10 and 11, 4 Alderwoman Coggs, on the motion? 5 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Was this heard last year? 6 Did they come before us? 7 MS. GRILL: I don't believe it was. 8 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: For the City Attorney, 9 just for clarification. The reason why we're able to 10 use Items 10 and 11 is because we made the whole 11 police report part of the record 12 MR. STEPHENS: I believe that citing those 13 particular items were items that you're going to need 14 finding of fact on that happened that occurred 15 pursuant to the police report. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Generally it has to be 17 within the last calendar year of when they oppose, and 18 the dotted lines indicate that it wasn't, so I'm 19 asking are we able to now use that because we made the 20 whole police report part of our record? 21 MR. STEPHENS: I believe that you could use 22 that as a factual basis, given the circumstances of 23 this particular application in that this individual 24 apparently has been renewed but has never actually 25 picked up their license and was, therefore, never able 15 1 to actually operate this business for apparently three 2 years, so I think that's a relevant consideration. 3 MS. GRILL: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Grill. 5 MS. GRILL: The Applicant was actually 6 scheduled last year and renewed with a warning letter, 7 and I don't know if the numbering is the same, but No. 8 10 and 11 were on the police report at that time. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But yes, if it was your 10 question, the police report was made part of the 11 record, which puts it in play. 12 MR. STEPHENS: That's an interesting 13 question, just based on the facts of this particular 14 case. It would seem to me that if it had been 15 considered, clearly the rules of the Committee 16 generally are that we don't reconsider things, 17 however, you can, I believe, look at past events, 18 patterns, and practices in looking over the course of 19 the conduct of the Licensee to determine whether or 20 not to renew. But I think key to this particular 21 hearing is the Licensee is not here. It's ultimately 22 up to the Committee's discretion what you want to 23 consider. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I appreciate that. I think 25 we're making a mountain out of a molehill. 16 1 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I just want to be clear, 2 Mr. Chair. I'm not going to support the renewal of 3 the license, but I just want to make sure that we have 4 as clean as possible and accurate as possible. So 5 that's where my questions come from. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have a motion for denial 7 before us here. Is there any other discussion on that 8 motion? Are there any objections to the motion? 9 Hearing none, so ordered. Thank you all for your 10 time. 11 * * * 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 2 ) 3 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 4 5 I, TERESE M. SCHIEBENES, of Milwaukee 6 Reporters Associated, Inc., 5120 West Blue Mound Road, 7 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the 8 foregoing proceedings is a full and complete 9 transcript of my stenographic notes taken in the 10 foregoing proceedings. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 TERESE M. SCHIEBENES 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 Dated this day of , 2010. 22 23 24 25