00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 COMMON COUNCIL 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 6 In the Matter of: The Class "A" Liquor and Malt application for: 7 GURMEET K. DHILLON 8 Agent for: "RIDGE PLAZA, INCORPORATED" BEST LIQUOR 9 551 West Becher 10 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 11 12 13 14 Proceedings had and testimony given in 15 the above-entitled matter, before the COMMON COUNCIL 16 OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on the 20th day of January, 17 2010. 18 19 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CITY CLERK: Motion to approve 3 recommendations of the Licenses Committee 4 relative to various licenses. Included in the 5 file are the following recommendations. Please 6 note that no objections have been filed to any of 7 these recommendations. 8 (Recommendations read.) 9 PRESIDENT HINES: Have the members of 10 the Common Council read the recommendations of 11 the License Committee? Roll call, please. 12 CITY CLERK: Alderman Hamilton? 13 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Davis? 15 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 16 CITY CLERK: Kovac? 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 18 CITY CLERK: Bauman? Bohl? 19 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 20 CITY CLERK: Coggs? 21 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Aye. 22 CITY CLERK: Wade? 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 24 CITY CLERK: Donovan? 25 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Aye. 00003 1 CITY CLERK: Puente? 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 3 CITY CLERK: Murphy? 4 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 5 CITY CLERK: Dudzik? 6 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 7 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak? 8 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 9 CITY CLERK: Witkowski? 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Aye. 11 CITY CLERK: Zielinski? 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 13 CITY CLERK: Bauman? 14 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 15 CITY CLERK: Mr. President? 16 PRESIDENT HINES: Aye. 17 CITY CLERK: 15 ayes. 18 PRESIDENT HINES: 15 ayes, zero nos. 19 Are there any motions relative to the - 20 - these items, this is relative to the 21 suspensions or the non-appearance? If there is 22 no further discussion, are there any motions? 23 Chair recognizes Alderman Bohl. 24 (Whereupon Alderman Bohl makes a motion 25 relating to File No. 090863). 00004 1 PRESIDENT HINES: The Chair would like 2 to hear from Alderman Witkowiak. 3 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 4 Chairman. Relative to File No. 090863, 5 notwithstanding the recommendation of the 6 committee to grant the license, I - - I move to 7 deny the application of Gurmeet K. Dhillon, Agent 8 for Ridge Plaza, Incorporated, for a Class "A" 9 Liquor and Malt license for "Best Liquor" at 551 10 West Becher Street on the basis of concentration 11 of licensed alcohol beverage establishments in 12 the vicinity of the location. And when it's 13 appropriate, Mr. Chairman, I'll speak on the 14 matter. 15 PRESIDENT HINES: It appears as if 16 everyone has the motion at our desks. Why don't 17 you continue, Alderman? 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Fellow 19 alderpersons, we have a - - You have a chance to 20 make history today, and that history making 21 decision would be if you decide to go ahead and 22 support this application and approve this Class 23 "A" Liquor and Malt license on the corner of 6th 24 and Becher, you can take these concentration maps 25 and arguments that we have and forever throw them 00005 1 away. 2 This is an area that has 43 alcohol 3 beverage licenses in a square mile. It's 4 actually more concentrated than it looks. There 5 is two parks in this district, there's a large 6 industrial area, and the freeway. Now, you had 7 some maps passed out here, along with the 8 corresponding statistics, the colored maps. The 9 red part of the map you see is the 14th 10 Aldermanic District, where the proposed location 11 is. The yellow part of the map is the 12th 12 Aldermanic District, which I represent. It's the 13 12th Aldermanic District which will be most 14 adversely affected by this, and in addition, the 15 City as a whole. 16 Let me tell you what this decision 17 means. If this license is granted today, every 18 gas station owner in the City of Milwaukee will 19 have an auxiliary or out-building built. And as 20 long a their center of their target produces a 21 number of 43 or less on the concentration map, 22 they're going to pick the sharpest lawyer in 23 Milwaukee, and they're going to be at the table 24 saying, grant us a license. You did it on 6th 25 and Becher. This, my colleagues, this is the 00006 1 last - - This is the last control that we have 2 over the number of alcohol beverage outlets that 3 we can have in the City, the concentration 4 argument. I guarantee you if this thing passes, 5 every gas station owner in the City of Milwaukee 6 that has enough land to build an auxiliary 7 building, will build that and say - - They'll 8 come to the table and they will say, my number is 9 lower than 43. I want an alcohol beverage 10 license. How convenient. You can stop for your 11 gasoline, your convenience store items and pick 12 up your alcohol all in the same stop. 13 Furthermore, a couple other points were 14 brought up in the newspaper article. I don't 15 think was - - it was an exact reflection. It 16 says that there was 341,700 dollars spent after 17 the applicant thought that he had the license. 18 That's erroneous. I believe that's an investment 19 in the entire building that was originally built 20 as a laundromat. Hard to fathom that somebody in 21 a - - a week and a half or two week period spends 22 371,000 dollars converting a laundromat. I can 23 tell you that didn't happen. But the reason that 24 I bring that point up, and I sent out a memo to 25 this effect that you all might have got after 00007 1 that. What kind of an argument is it for an 2 applicant to come in and say, because I've spent 3 a large amount of money, I've made a major 4 investment in this piece of property, you should 5 grant me a license. I'll tell you what. I - - 6 Out of all the people in this room, I spent the 7 most time on licensing, of all the aldermen in 8 this room. And Licensing 101 will tell you it 9 does not matter what size the investment is that 10 a person makes. It is 100 percent at his own 11 risk until he has that license in his hand. 12 Again, if you take this argument, if you believe 13 371,000 dollars, that's what was spent on the 14 building, which - - which is currently a 15 laundromat. I agree with that. 371,000 dollars 16 was not spent from the time he thought he was 17 going to get the license until now. That's 18 erroneous. It doesn't - - It doesn't matter if 19 it's a dollar. Buyer beware. This applicant did 20 not have the license in his hand. Anybody that 21 goes and spends money in anticipation of 22 receiving a license and doesn't get it, that's 23 money spent at their own risk. That's the 24 poorest argument in the world. But how many 25 times have we heard that at the table? My 00008 1 applicant - - The lawyer will come up and say, my 2 applicant spent 50,000 dollars. Therefore, he 3 should get this license. He thought he was going 4 to get it. He did the renovations. He didn't 5 realize he had to have a license first. That is 6 not an argument. That is not a good argument. 7 You all should know that. Any of you who served 8 on the committee, any of you who have observed 9 what have happened over the years, that is - - 10 that is not a relevant argument. 11 If there is to be more liquor 12 establishments added into highly concentrated 13 area, there needs to be a compelling reason. 14 There needs to be a compelling reason. So you 15 give me a compelling reason, Aldermen. I'll tell 16 you a bona fide restaurant would be a compelling 17 reason. A restaurant that has the main purpose 18 of its business is to prepare and serve food for 19 people, and then as an added amenity to its 20 customers, serve alcohol. That's a compelling 21 reason to add a license in a concentrated area. 22 Or a part of some - - some major, major 23 redevelopment. Not converting a laundromat into 24 a Class "A" liquor and malt establishment. 25 Well, the record will tell you and some 00009 1 people who were at the committee and say, well, 2 listen here. The reason that we decided to go 3 along and recommend approval of this, is that 4 there were approximately ten people that 5 testified in favor of it, and five people that 6 testified against it. Well, I'll tell you what. 7 When my office was receiving all the complaints 8 and questions about this application going 9 forward, you know what I told them? I said, 10 don't load the bus up with people and bring them 11 down in sheer numbers. I said, you bring five, 12 six quality people that live in the area, give 13 good solid testimony, and that will be fine. 14 Don't aggravate the committee, okay. But if the 15 committee is going to continue to make decisions 16 on ten people came down and spoke in favor, and 17 five people spoke against it, so, therefore, we 18 should go ahead and recommend approval of this 19 license. Let me tell you what, those license 20 meetings, which are running eight, ten, 12 hours 21 now, will be running 24 hours right around the 22 clock. Because if it's a sheer numbers game, the 23 people that want the licenses will be loading up 24 more and more people on the bus and bringing them 25 down to testify, and the people that are against 00010 1 it will be bringing more and more people down, 2 because they say it's going to be a numbers game. 3 If we can beat them 100 people to 99 people, 4 we'll get the license. Or if we can beat them 90 5 people to 89 people, we can stop the license. 6 That's what's going to happen. 7 And if you look at - - If you've 8 reviewed the testimony, the quality of the 9 testimony, the people that spoke in support of 10 it, well, he's a nice guy and - - and he deserves 11 the license. And we stop in there once in a 12 while, and he treats us like family. You tell me 13 if that's a compelling reason that somebody 14 should have a Class "A" Liquor and Malt license. 15 If this license is granted, you might 16 as well change the - - change the exit sign on 17 the freeway. "Exit here. Our neighborhood is 18 swimming in alcohol. Drink until you drop." 19 Okay. One more time. 43 licenses in one square 20 mile. Not a compelling reason to open a Class 21 "A". Right across the street, directly across 22 the street from here there's a - - there's a 23 Class "A" Malt and a Class "B" Tavern right 24 across the street. Look at it. Do we need - - 25 Do we need another establishment to sell liquor 00011 1 in this neighborhood? Do we need another liquor 2 establishment to open up in your neighborhoods? 3 Because I guarantee you if this passes, open the 4 flood gates, because there's going to be one 5 opening up in a neighborhood near you soon. 6 Thank you. 7 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 8 The motion is on the table. On the motion? 9 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 10 PRESIDENT HINES: Chair recognizes 11 Alderman Zielinski. 12 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Okay. Thank you 13 very much. This is in my district. If people 14 will recall, at our last Council meeting this 15 item was approved by the committee unanimously. 16 And the reason why it was approved unanimously is 17 that we sent out notices to all the neighbors, 18 spilled over into other, you know, other 19 districts other than my own, as far as the 20 mailings are concerned. Not one person - - Not 21 one person came forward and objected. At the 22 first meeting everybody was uniformly opposed to 23 it. No problem. Comes to the - - to the full 24 Council here, and then all of a sudden I'm being 25 told, oh, well we weren't noticed. We didn't 00012 1 know what was going on. This is a public record, 2 public, you know, publicly announced, publicly 3 noticed, opportunity to testify. But anyway, I 4 said, okay, maybe there's some - - something 5 going on here. So I supported sending it back to 6 committee. Oh, there's going to be all these 7 people. Oh, the - - the whole area is just 8 opposed to it. Everybody's opposed to it. Okay. 9 This story about not having people come down. I 10 mean, we know that we're listening to the people 11 in the impacted. That's one of the factors that 12 we - - that we consider when we look at this. 13 And the people that came down, they're living 14 seven blocks away, four blocks away. There 15 wasn't anybody across the street that came in, 16 or, I believe, there was one person that was 17 within a block, and I've got my notes right here. 18 Let's see here. There's one person seven blocks 19 away, another person doesn't live in the area. 20 Four blocks away. Four blocks away. One block 21 away. And I've got in favor less than a block 22 away, five houses away, one block away, across 23 the street. And by the way, it wasn't ten people 24 that came in to testify in favor of it. It was 25 12. Plus there was three people that testified 00013 1 the first time who was there the second time, who 2 we didn't hear testimony, so there's 13 people. 3 Now the thing that I find particularly, 4 you know, interesting about the concentration 5 argument is, number one, this area is not 6 designated, you know, concentration. And number 7 two, this particular individual applied in 1995 8 for a liquor license. And the concentration 9 argument that this was in a different district at 10 that time, that's right. There was concentration 11 argument made at that time. However, in 2000 a 12 new liquor license establishment was approved and 13 supported a couple blocks away at LaLuna. Now 14 how in 1995 can this location be designated 15 concentration, deny it, and then in 2000 LaLuna 16 is approved two blocks away. If there's all 17 these liquor licenses and everything, why is 18 LaLuna getting approved? Why wasn't that 19 concentration? Why isn't it concentration for 20 LaLuna, but it's concentration for this 21 particular individual? And that's really what's 22 going on here. Because we know we listen to - - 23 to people that come down and - - and testify, 24 even the people that have been opposed to this 25 particular establishment had nothing bad to say 00014 1 about the operator. This is a very responsible 2 operator. He's operated liquor licenses before. 3 And, you know, the committee, they listened to 4 the whole testimony again, and the committee 5 still overwhelmingly supported the approval of 6 this license. 7 As far as the number of 43 licenses, 8 well, I can tell you, in the 12th District I 9 supported an additional liquor license in the 10 12th District, even though the number was well 11 over 43. And the Alderman in the area was 12 supportive of it, because the people in the area 13 were supportive of it. And I even recall saying 14 in the committee, because I believe there was a 15 lot more than 43. I was shocked. But I - - You 16 know, I - - I really think this is concentration 17 here, but, you know, if - - You know, if people 18 don't have a problem in this particular area, 19 because what may be concentration in one area may 20 not be concentration in another area. So that's 21 another argument that, you know, that I don't 22 buy. 23 So the - - the long and short of this 24 is the committee has heard this two times. We've 25 gone through every detail that there is no way we 00015 1 can cover right now before the Council, and the 2 committee has, after listening to all the 3 information, all the testimony, all the 4 arguments, has voted to support this again. And 5 if the committee would have heard different 6 testimony, or there is compelling arguments made, 7 I wouldn't have supported it the second time. 8 That's why, you know, I supported sending it back 9 to committee. Let's find out what's going on 10 here. But, you know, to say we didn't know, even 11 though it's publicly noticed, I just don't buy 12 that argument. So I would - - I would hope that 13 you would support the committee recommendation 14 for this license in my district. Thank you. 15 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 16 Chair recognizes Alderman Joe Dudzik. 17 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Thank you very much. 18 I just - - If somebody could answer this question 19 for me. I just need to get it clear in my head. 20 The first time that it was heard in front of 21 committee, was concentration an issue at that 22 first hearing? Does anyone know? 23 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I - - I can answer 24 that. Nope. Concentration was not even brought 25 up as - - as an issue at that meeting by anybody 00016 1 that attended the first meeting. 2 PRESIDENT HINES: Chair recognizes 3 Alderman Bohl. 4 ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. Mr. President, there are times where 6 in the notice for neighborhood objections there 7 is the possibility of having concentrated - - 8 concentration of alcohol beverage outlets listed 9 as a possible means for denial. I don't know if 10 the notice, itself, reflected that. It was not 11 raised as an issue. It doesn't mean that it was 12 not in the notice. I don't recall whether it was 13 or wasn't in the notice. But it was not - - It 14 was not raised as an issue. 15 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 16 can answer that. 17 PRESIDENT HINES: I'll acknowledge you, 18 Alderman. 19 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. I'd be more than happy to answer - - 21 PRESIDENT HINES: But not now. Did he 22 answer - - Did you get your questions answered, 23 Alderman? Okay. With that said, he said his 24 question was answered. However, Alderman, if you 25 have some additional - - 00017 1 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Yes. 2 PRESIDENT HINES: And, I mean, relative 3 to whether or not concentration - - 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: And for the 5 edification of the full Council, when we sent out 6 notices the first time, it included 7 concentration, prostitution, drug, everything. 8 We used the entire template listing everything, 9 so people had an opportunity to tentive - - 10 testify the first time versus concentration, and 11 not one single person, not one single person even 12 mentioned concentration, even though it was 13 noticed. 14 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 15 The Chair recognizes Alderwoman Coggs. 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: I see that three of 17 the corners are in the 12th District, and one is 18 in the 14th District. When the initial notice 19 went out, did it go the whole 200 feet all the 20 way around, including to the people who live 21 within the 12th Aldermanic District? 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: That is correct. 23 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Thank you. 24 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you. Chair 25 recognizes Alderman Witkowiak. 00018 1 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. A 2 couple things. First of all, in the - - in the 3 first meeting, the people that - - the people 4 that had called me after this thing was 5 recommended the first time from the 12th District 6 said they did not receive a notice. Nobody - - 7 Nobody from my district acknowledged receiving a 8 notice. So I don't know - - I don't know where 9 the notices were mailed or who got them. But the 10 people that it was brought to their attention in 11 my district did not receive notices. And - - And 12 I asked all those people, didn't you get 13 something in the mail. 14 I think Alderman - - The Alderman in 15 the 14th brought up something very interesting 16 that I want to - - that I want to clarify, 17 because I think he feels that I supported one 18 licensee over another. He's inferring to this. 19 If you talk about the license he's referring to 20 in - - in the year 2000. There was a - - There 21 was a Class "A" Malt license on approximately 6th 22 and Grant, and there was a Class "B" Tavern 23 license on 6th and Maple. The owner of the 24 building did not want to sell his building to the 25 - - to the store owner who was renting it who had 00019 1 the Class "A" Malt license. He went over and 2 made an offer to purchase a Class "B" Tavern, 3 which was actually a troubled tavern in the 4 district. So basically what happens was we took 5 a Class "A" Malt and a Class "B" Tavern and 6 combined them into a Class "A" Liquor and Malt. 7 So the actual - - Effectively what it did in this 8 - - in this area was the - - the concentration 9 number actually went down by one, because of 10 that. But it was an existing Class "A" Malt and 11 an existing Class "B" Tavern combined to make a 12 Class "A" Liquor and Malt. Instead of two 13 alcohol beverage outlets, it went down to one. 14 That's what the Alderman of the 14th is referring 15 to in his talking about a - - a new liquor 16 license in 2000. Other - - Other alcohol 17 beverage licenses that are new in the 12th 18 District you will see are accompanied by a 19 restaurant, a/k/a, The Transfer on 1st and 20 Mitchell. Those are - - Those are places that I 21 said have a compelling reason, where you have a 22 bona fide restaurant going in, and somebody wants 23 the opportunity to sell alcohol as an amenity, I 24 think that's a - - I think that's a compelling 25 reason to give somebody the privilege to sell 00020 1 alcohol. 2 A couple other things. In the Alderman 3 in the 14th's testimony, he said, well, there 4 were - - there were 12 people, there weren't ten. 5 Out of those 12 people that came to testify in 6 favor, one of them gave an address of 108th 7 Street. I think that's a little far from 6th and 8 Becher. And the other one was on North 47th or 9 North 49th. So, you know, you want to talk about 10 details, we can go into all that, too. I don't 11 have a problem with that. The - - Effectively, 12 in 1995 when this license was denied for 13 concentration, there was three Class "A" Liquor 14 and Malt establishments in this map. There was 15 three of them. Today there is five. The reason 16 that there is five is the one I just explained, 17 where we combined a Class "A" Malt and a Class 18 "B" Tavern. Okay. That became number four. And 19 number five became the A&J Polish Deli on Lincoln 20 Avenue, who is a bona fide delicatessen, and they 21 wanted to sell - - They wanted to sell liquors 22 from - - direct from Poland, and that's the 23 reason that they have a Class "A" Liquor and 24 Malt. But back in 1995 when this was deemed 25 concentrated, there was three Class "A" Liquor 00021 1 and Malts. Now, there is five within this map. 2 And you want to add another one and make it 3 number six? I don't think so. 4 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 5 The Chair recognizes Alderman Witkowski. 6 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. For the Council's information, as you 8 look at the map, you will see that approximately 9 a third of the map is either industrial or county 10 park, Barron Park, Kosziusko Park, take out a 11 large chunk. East of the freeway towards the top 12 of the map at Maple you'll see number 234, 24. 13 That's pretty much - - 24 is an industrial area, 14 actually. 34 is the last one in residential. 15 There are - - Most of the map here, a third of 16 the map is industrial, except for an area around 17 Hayes and Lincoln, 3rd to 4th. There are homes 18 in that area. There was a tavern in that area. 19 That one block was serviced by a tavern. That 20 one went out of business. I've got to support 21 the motion for denial on concentration. When you 22 look at residential area, this area sure has it. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 25 The Chair recognizes Alderman Zielinski. 00022 1 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Thank you, Mr. 2 Chairman. I'd like to make sure that the Council 3 is perfectly clear about the notices. And I made 4 sure that during the course of the meeting I got 5 this on public record. I asked Ms. Grill during 6 the course of the meeting, I said, did the 7 notices just go out to residents of the 14th 8 District or did it go to everybody within that 9 geographical radius. And she testified that it 10 went to everybody within that geographical 11 radius. So if some people say, well, I didn't 12 get a notice. Well, you know why the people he's 13 talking about didn't get a notice, because 14 they're not within the two - - within the 15 geographical radius of where the notices go out. 16 So if you live seven blocks away, you're not 17 going to get a notice. Okay. But the people 18 that are there that are most directly impacted, 19 they had no problem. First time, no 20 concentration argument, no nothing. Second time, 21 people that came down were basically from, you 22 know, greater distances away, and so forth. 23 And then, as far as this business about 24 trading. Well, oh, well, we closed down this 25 tavern and we had this other thing, so we're 00023 1 trading that for the liquor store. I've never 2 heard of anything like that. We've closed down a 3 number of liquor license establishments, and - - 4 and we don't say, well, okay, well, we're going 5 to close you down, but in exchange we're going to 6 put a liquor store here, even though the guy two 7 blocks away was denied concentration for a liquor 8 store. But it's okay to give you concen - - to 9 give you a liquor store, even though it's denied 10 for concentration a couple blocks away, because 11 we're closing down a bar and we're closing down 12 a, you know, beer sales over here. Just doesn't 13 buy it. 14 I can tell you I represented this whole 15 area when I was on the County board. I know that 16 area like the back of my hand. I've gone down 17 that street. I have - - I've had people come 18 down and testify in favor of this license 19 establishment. I've been in their living room 20 many times, homeowners that live across the 21 street. So, again, there's no way that this 22 Council is going to capture the full flavor of 23 what actually transpired during the licensing 24 meeting, but both times came through, recommended 25 approval after all the testimony, all the 00024 1 information. And I would hope that the Council 2 would support the recommendation of the 3 committee. 4 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 5 Any additional comments? The Chair recognizes 6 Alderman Witkowiak. 7 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. Thank you, 8 Mr. Chairman. Just a couple more things. All 9 the people that came down and testified in favor 10 of - - in favor of the applicant, they were 11 invited down there by the applicant. Notices or 12 no notices, who mailed them, who got them, I 13 don't know. I'm just telling you the people in 14 my district called up and said they didn't know 15 about it. The people that came down and 16 testified on behalf of the applicant were invited 17 to come testify by the applicant. Because they 18 told me that. They were invited by the 19 applicant. So who got notices? Where did they 20 go out? I don't know. Half the people don't 21 read their mail anyway. 22 We have - - Notices or no notices. We 23 have - - We have an opportunity - - We have an 24 opportunity to take a stand against the 25 proliferation of alcohol beverage outlets in our 00025 1 neighborhoods. This number of 43 is a higher 2 number than what most of you have in your entire 3 Aldermanic Districts. So let's go look for a 4 clean chalkboard someplace. You know. Let's 5 find a gas station that has enough land. Let's 6 build an auxiliary building. Let's throw target 7 on the map, and let's say, you know, there's only 8 17 outlets here. We gave one on 6th and Becher 9 where there's 43 outlets. This should be a slam 10 dunk. We'll get a good lawyer. He'll compare 11 apples to apples, and he'll say, that's what we 12 want to do. And you're going to say oh, no, no, 13 no, no. My neighborhood is different. Let me 14 tell you. There's big problems with that. 15 People are people in the City of Milwaukee, 16 wherever they reside, whatever their income is. 17 It doesn't matter. So if 43 or 44 licenses is 18 okay in my neighborhood, let me tell you, that 19 43, 44 licenses is okay in your neighborhood, 20 too. That's a good legal argument. Think about 21 it. Thank you. 22 PRESIDENT HINES: Thank you, Alderman. 23 I'm going to acknowledge the next member, but I'm 24 going to preface it with this. I don't know if 25 anyone, if you're making any mileage in - - in 00026 1 your - - in your comments. And it's clearly 2 evident that there is one alderman who opposes 3 it. There's another alderman that supports it. 4 And I don't want to belabor the Council's time if 5 there's no additional comments that are made to - 6 - to convince members. With that said, the 7 motion is before us, and the alderman no longer 8 wants to speak at this time. 9 The motion is before us relative to 10 concentration having been put forth by Alderman 11 Witkowiak. City - - Any - - Any additional 12 comments? 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 14 PRESIDENT HINES: Chair recognizes 15 Alderman Wade. 16 ALDERMAN WADE: What's the 17 Parliamentary procedure on this, as far as how it 18 came out at committee? 19 PRESIDENT HINES: As - - Alderman Bohl, 20 do you want to speak to that? I think it may 21 have come out of committee, what was the final, 22 three-one. 23 ALDERMAN BOHL: I believe the - - I 24 believe the vote was three-one, so it did not 25 obtain the four votes, Mr. President. As a 00027 1 result it would be a simple majority, I believe, 2 here. 3 PRESIDENT HINES: I understand that 4 element. I just wanted to make certain that it 5 came out - - 6 ALDERMAN BOHL: A three-one - - three- 7 one at committee with - - with one member who was 8 - - who was excused. 9 PRESIDENT HINES: With that being the 10 case, Mr. City Clerk, please call the roll. 11 CITY CLERK: On the - - On the motion 12 to deny, notwithstanding the recommendation of 13 the committee. Alderman Hamilton? 14 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: A difficult, aye. 15 CITY CLERK: Davis? 16 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 17 CITY CLERK: Kovac? 18 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 19 CITY CLERK: Bauman? 20 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 21 CITY CLERK: Bohl? 22 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 23 CITY CLERK: Coggs? 24 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 25 CITY CLERK: Wade? 00028 1 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 2 CITY CLERK: Donovan? 3 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Aye. 4 CITY CLERK: Puente? 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No. 6 CITY CLERK: Murphy? 7 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 8 CITY CLERK: Dudzik? 9 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 10 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak? 11 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 12 CITY CLERK: Witkowski? 13 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Zielinski? 15 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: No. 16 CITY CLERK: Mr. President? 17 PRESIDENT HINES: Aye. 18 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No to aye. No to 19 aye. 20 CITY CLERK: 12 ayes, three nos. 21 PRESIDENT HINES: 12 ayes, three nos. 22 The motion carries. Alderwoman Coggs, your light 23 is on. Is there a comment that you'd like to 24 make? 25 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 00029 1 PRESIDENT HINES: Okay. Are there any 2 motions relative to the suspensions or the 3 recommendations that come from the Licenses 4 Committee in item number five? Any additional 5 motions? If there is no further discussion, no 6 additional motions, I'd like to request a vote of 7 those Council members present to approve the 8 recommendation of the Licenses Committee as 9 contained in File No. 090863. Will the City 10 Clerk please call the roll? 11 CITY CLERK: On the file as amended, 12 Alderman Hamilton? 13 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 14 CITY CLERK: Davis? 15 ALDERMAN DAVIS: Aye. 16 CITY CLERK: Kovac? 17 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Aye. 18 CITY CLERK: Bauman? 19 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Aye. 20 CITY CLERK: Bohl? 21 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 22 CITY CLERK: Coggs? 23 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Aye. 24 CITY CLERK: Wade? 25 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 00030 1 CITY CLERK: Donovan? 2 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Aye. 3 CITY CLERK: Puente? 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 5 CITY CLERK: Murphy? 6 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 7 CITY CLERK: Dudzik? 8 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 9 CITY CLERK: Witkowiak? 10 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Aye. 11 CITY CLERK: Witkowski? 12 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: Aye. 13 CITY CLERK: Zielinski? 14 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 15 CITY CLERK: Mr. President? 16 PRESIDENT HINES: Aye. 17 CITY CLERK: 15 ayes. 18 PRESIDENT HINES: 15 ayes, zero nos. 19 The file is adopted. 20 * * * * 21 00031 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a full and complete transcript of 11 Licenses Committee Report regarding RIDGE PLAZA, 12 INCORPORATED, on January 20. 2010. 13 14 15 16 17 18 JEAN M. BARINA 19 Court Reporter 20 21 22 Dated this day of April, 2010. 23 24 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 25