00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Class "A" Malt application for: 6 SURINDER SINGH, Agent for 7 "LUBANA INC." CASA BLANCA FOOD & LIQUOR 8 2000 South 16th Street 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman 12 ALD. TERRY WITKOWSKI ALD. ROBERT PUENTE 13 ALD. WILLIE WADE 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA GRILL 15 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 16 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 12th day of February, 2008. 22 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: In the 12th 3 District, Surinder Singh, Agent for "Lubana, 4 Inc.", Class "A" Liquor and Malt application for 5 "Casa Blanca Food & Liquor" at 2000 South 13th 6 Street. 7 MR. ELDER: Good morning. Attorney 8 Louis Edward Elder. 9 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, sir. 10 MR. ELDER: I'm Attorney Louis Edward 11 Elder. I'm the emergency quarterback, I guess, 12 for Attorney Allen Eisenberg, who represents Mr. 13 Singh, who is present here today. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Could you 15 gentlemen please raise your right hands? We'll 16 swear you in. If you're going to testify, sir, 17 you have to - - Okay. 18 (Whereupon those present were sworn.) 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Name and address 20 for the record, please, the applicant. Pull 21 those microphones towards yourself. They're not 22 glued down there. Name and address for the 23 record, please. 24 THE APPLICANT: 4601 South First 25 Street, apartment number 207, Milwaukee, 00003 1 Wisconsin, zipcode 53207. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And for the 3 record, your name is? 4 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Surinder Singh. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And you, 6 sir. 7 THE APPLICANT: He's my manager. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Well, he's at the 9 table. We have to have his name and address. 10 MR. BAWA: Yes. My name is Chaman 11 Singh Bawa. Address 5857 South Indian Avenue, 12 Cudahy, Wisconsin 53110. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And the spelling of 15 his name? 16 THE WITNESS: Spell my name? 17 COURT REPORTER: Sure. 18 THE WITNESS: C-H-A-M-A-N, S-I-N-G-H, 19 B-A-W-A. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And do you admit 22 to receiving notice in the mail there's a 23 possibility your application could be denied 24 because of items contained on the police report 25 and neighborhood objections to loitering, 00004 1 littering, parking, traffic problems, drug 2 criminal activity, public urination, trespassing, 3 vandalism, fitness of location based on the 4 concentration of alcohol beverage outlets in the 5 area, and conduct which is detrimental to the 6 health, safety and welfare of the neighborhood? 7 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Ms. Grill, 9 anything from the Health Department or 10 Neighborhood Services? 11 MS. GRILL: Neighborhood Services has a 12 hold for occupancy. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And, Sergeant, at 14 this time could we have a police report, please? 15 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On 6/11 of '04 the 16 applicant was convicted of operating while 17 intoxicated in Milwaukee County. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Any 19 questions about the police report? Is that 20 accurate? 21 THE APPLICANT: Yes, I have that DWI 22 ticket, and after that, I have no - - any kind of 23 problems. And the City has already granted my 24 bartender license, and taxicab license. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 00005 1 THE APPLICANT: And I don't have that 2 - - any problem. And police has not have 3 anything after that. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 5 You want to tell the - - the committee why you're 6 applying for this license and what you intend to 7 do there if you're granted this license? 8 THE APPLICANT: He can speak on the 9 behalf of me, my manager. 10 MR. BAWA: He has - - 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Don't 12 everybody talk at once now. 13 I asked - - I said - - I said would you 14 please explain to the committee what you intend 15 to do there if you're granted this license. 16 MR. BAWA: Yes, we intend to open the 17 store, for a neighborhood fresh food store, and a 18 small part of liquor, liquor store. And we have 19 the plan, also, as your highness has already 20 stood up and says at the neighborhood meeting, 21 that, in fact we cover a range of place that - - 22 that will be later on, extending for the 23 laundromat reasons for the neighborhood, as 24 nearby as there is a - - nothing over there. And 25 that could be a benefit for the neighborhood. So 00006 1 - - And apart from that, just this is a - - this 2 place carries a wide opening place for us to run. 3 So we - - we were thinking of having the 4 privilege of handicap assistance, also. So that 5 can easily be done. And for their benefit we 6 maybe offer some, but in time when the business 7 is open, we may use the - - extend the facility 8 of these handicap people for fresh foods, also. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. All right. 10 Any questions by members of the committee? 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente? 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What's currently 14 there now or - - I mean, was there a tavern there 15 or some other Class "B" liquor license? 16 MR. BAWA: Yeah, there was a tavern 17 over there, currently the shop is closed, and I 18 don't know whether he's in - - not there. And 19 they had put the thing on sale, and that we came 20 to know that, and we thought of opening the store 21 over there, and that is suitable for good place 22 to make the business over there upon the vicinity 23 of the neighborhood. 24 MR. ELDER: I believe the present owner 25 is here. 00007 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: He is, yes. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Because according to 3 my little note here, the previous license did 4 have a tavern "B" license, and it was renewed and 5 granted on 9/07, but not issued. Okay. Thank 6 you. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It's been closed 8 for a while, Alderman. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Beyond the 9/07? 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I - - Well, 11 actually, the owner can testify here, too. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'll wait for that 13 then, thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yeah. Can I see a 15 show of hands? Is there anyone here to testify 16 relative to this license at 2000 South 13th 17 Street, other than the people at the table? 18 Would the building - - That's the building owner. 19 Yeah, would you come - - come up to the table, 20 please? We can get your testimony, ask you some 21 questions. Would you please raise your right 22 hand, and we can swear you in, Mr. Nava? 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: If I may suggest, Mr. 24 Chair. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 00008 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: There's four people. 2 Why don't we just swear all four of them. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Is 4 everybody going to testify here? Other people? 5 Mr. Nava, are these other people going to - - 6 want to testify? 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Then raise - - 9 raise your right hands, all at the same. Okay. 10 There you go. 11 (Whereupon the witnesses were sworn.) 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Your name 13 and address for the record, please. 14 THE WITNESS: My name is Ernest Nava. 15 And I live 2004 South 13th Street. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 17 THE WITNESS: And I been running that 18 place for eight years, and I know I have current 19 license right now, but I have identify theft, 20 then I have very hard time to do my - - my 21 payments to the bank. So that's why I have to 22 sell the property. Otherwise, everything is - - 23 is all right there. We don't have no problems at 24 all. It was - - I mean, I was running a fancy 25 nightclub with light music and - - and the 00009 1 capacity there was for 150 people. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What was the name of 6 your establishment? 7 THE WITNESS: Los - - 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And when did you 9 close? Did you close or are you still operating? 10 THE WITNESS: No, it's closed right 11 now, because we have - - I had problems with 12 Wisconsin Revenue, too, because the same problem 13 come out with my identity theft, I mean, 14 everything is get worse because we don't have no 15 money poor. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: How long have you 17 been closed? 18 THE WITNESS: About seven months. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Seven months. 20 THE WITNESS: Six months, I don't know. 21 Yeah. September - - Since September. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: That's - - That's 23 what it says, September, '07. 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. Thank 00010 1 you. 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any other 4 questions of this witness? No. Okay. Thank 5 you, Mr. Nava. Next person want to testify? 6 THE WITNESS: I'm going to be sort of 7 translating. We live across the street 1977 8 South 13th Street. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 10 THE WITNESS: We have - - 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Your name? 12 THE WITNESS: Paloma Nava. P-A-L-O-M- 13 A, Nava, N-A-V-A. This is Jorge Hernandez. So 14 we live across the street. We've had no problems 15 with the establishment before, and we're willing 16 to support whatever is needed. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: And besides that, the 19 place has been running good. There's no problem 20 with littering or noise, so I think it's a good 21 place to open up as a store. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any questions of 23 this witness? 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Just the address of 25 the gentleman. Does he live at the same place 00011 1 you do? 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Are you related 5 to - - 6 THE WITNESS: To whom? 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: To Mr. Nava? 8 THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah. His daughter. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: All right. Okay. 10 Thank you. Any other questions? No. Okay. Is 11 there one other person to testify? 12 THE WITNESS: Name is Victor Rodriguez. 13 I live at 1980 South 13th Street. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And your 15 testimony? 16 THE WITNESS: I just want you to know 17 that's a good place. It can reopen. I don't 18 have no problems with none of them, people there. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Any 20 questions of this - - 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: This is supposed to 24 be a - - a food store, also? 25 MR. BAWA: Yes. Yes, please. 00012 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Do you feel you need 2 a place like that, a liquor and food store, close 3 to where you live or are there other locations 4 near you? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's a nice place 6 to put in liquor. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So you would use the 8 - - the food, also? 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. That would be 10 okay. So you don't have to run all the way 11 across, like two or three blocks from there, so. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: It would be a little 13 more convenient for you. 14 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 16 Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Just for 18 the benefit of the committee members. We did 19 hold a neighborhood meeting there approximately 20 three weeks ago. We had about seven or eight 21 people come. The - - We had a discussion about 22 what the new owners intended to do should they be 23 granted their license. They explained the layout 24 of the store. And the - - the consensus was 25 about split. There were some of the - - About 00013 1 half the people were in favor of it, and half the 2 people that were there were opposed to it. And 3 at this time Alderman Puente wishes to make the - 4 - we have a map showing the concentration of 5 alcohol beverage outlets. Alderman Puente wishes 6 to make that part of the permanent record in this 7 hearing. Hearing no objections, so ordered. 8 It's a map showing the surrounding - - It's a one 9 mile - - a one mile grid with the proposed 10 location in the center. And the supporting 11 documentation showing the 63 licenses within that 12 square mile. Any other questions by members of 13 the committee? 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sir, do you have any 17 experience in this type of business? 18 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Can you explain 20 further? Do you have another liquor store, or do 21 you have another food store or what? 22 THE APPLICANT: No. I have a food and 23 gas station in Waukesha. 304 North Grant Avenue 24 in Waukesha, and I - - Five years I work on the 25 liquor store located at 35th and Wells. That is 00014 1 Smiles Liquor and grocery store. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: That is yours? 3 THE APPLICANT: Not "yours." I used to 4 work there. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, used to work 6 there. 7 THE APPLICANT: Work there. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. I understand. 9 Okay. Have you had any problems with your gas 10 station or food stores in Waukesha? 11 THE APPLICANT: No, sir. No. No, 12 never. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No police ever come? 14 THE APPLICANT: Never. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No drive-offs? 16 THE APPLICANT: The police came a 17 couple times, sir, to see that we are selling the 18 cigarettes to a minor, and I - - I never got 19 that. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. So - - 21 THE APPLICANT: And I used to work five 22 years in the liquor store. I never has any 23 citation that I sell the malt liquor or beer to 24 the minors. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What about the 00015 1 gentleman next to you? You said he's going to be 2 the manager? 3 THE APPLICANT: He - - Yes, he - - 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: What experience does 5 he have? 6 MR. BAWA: Yes, I have. I have the 7 experience bar man in the store and we will do 8 our best to - - as far as objection for littering 9 and outside vandalism is concerned. We will be 10 stiff for that when the place is open. We will 11 take care of that, cleanliness of the block, 12 also, as we have discussed in our meeting with 13 the man over there, with the people, that we will 14 not leave any stone unturned, but we will need 15 the cooperation from the neighborhood and the - - 16 and the City administration to eliminate that 17 vandalism or drug marketing. I mean, illicit 18 drug control, so we will do our best. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 20 Chair. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Any further 22 questions by members of the committee? Anything 23 further you want to say before we attempt to rule 24 on this? 25 MR. ELDER: No. Other than I think it 00016 1 would be better that - - The tavern is closed 2 right now, and I'm hearing that that's why there 3 may be a lot of loitering and some things going 4 on in the area. It could be policed better if 5 it's opened and it's - - there is apparently 6 grocery store, a feature to this tavern, that the 7 area needs to sell food, as well as beverages. 8 And these gentlemen have the experience in the - 9 - in the field, and they believe that they can 10 police the area. And I think that helps out the 11 community. It even helps the police department, 12 where you have responsible citizens occupying the 13 tavern. I'd ask that they be - - they be given a 14 chance to - - to help this community, and also, 15 help themselves. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. This 17 matter is in committee. 18 THE APPLICANT: Can I have one 19 question, sir? 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. Go 21 ahead. 22 THE APPLICANT: I saw that yesterday in 23 that block, only one block, there is six house 24 are for sale. If just like that everything is 25 going on sale and the - - it should be happening 00017 1 outside the loitering and nasty everything, so 2 that's why we try to open that place, and keep 3 that around the area around the neighborhood 4 clean. 5 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 6 This matter is in committee. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I would move 10 approval, based on public testimony. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 12 Puente is to recommend approval, based on public 13 testimony. Is there any discussion on the 14 motion? 15 I have to chime in on this. There - - 16 If you look at this map, 63 licenses is probably 17 among the highest concentration that I've seen 18 out of any of these reports, I mean, even in my 19 neighborhood. And if you go - - If you look on 20 this, what's surrounded by Class "B" taverns, 21 there's a Class "B" tavern in every direction in 22 one block. But then if you're looking to buy, 23 which taverns can sell carry-out. But then if 24 you're looking to buy carry-out, you go two 25 blocks to the west, one block to the east, one 00018 1 block to the south. There's Class "A" malt and 2 Class "A" liquor and malt places there. So I - - 3 I mean, I have to object based on concentration 4 of alcohol beverage outlets. To say this is - - 5 This is among the highest concentration that I've 6 seen since I've been on this committee, 63. Any 7 further discussion on the motion? Motion by 8 Alderman Puente is to recommend approval based on 9 - - based on testimony. Are there any objections 10 to that motion besides mine? 11 ALDERMAN BOHL: I'll object. 12 ALDERMAN WITKOWSKI: I'll object. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hearing three 14 objections, the motion fails. This matter is 15 still in committee. 16 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman, I'll 17 move, based on over concentration in the area. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Motion by Alderman 19 Bohl is to recommend denial based on 20 concentration of alcohol beverage outlets in the 21 area. Are there any objections to that motion? 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, on the 23 motion. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: To Ms. Grill, with 00019 1 the license already - - there's already a license 2 granted there. Correct? How does the motion 3 impact that license, if anything? 4 MS. GRILL: That license hasn't been 5 granted, but it could be issued at any time. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Even though 7 we're - - If this passes for denial based on 8 concentration, correct me if I'm wrong, if we 9 approve based on - - on concentration, there is a 10 time period that no other tavern or liquor 11 license can be issued. Is that correct? 12 MS. GRILL: That's correct. There's a 13 three year period where no new alcohol beverage 14 establishment could come in there. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: For three years. 16 MS. GRILL: For three years. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Just to make that 19 clear. That license was granted but not issued. 20 Right? 21 MS. GRILL: That's correct. 22 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is that correct? 23 Okay. All right. So motion is to recommend 24 denial based on concentration of alcohol beverage 25 outlets. Are there any - - any objections to 00020 1 that motion? 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'll object. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair? 4 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 5 ALDERMAN WADE: On the motion, I just 6 want to be, just even a little more clear. The 7 number we looking at of licenses is concentration 8 is 63. So that's - - that number will drop with 9 this, if this motion passes to 62. Is that 10 correct? 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: No. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No, it would 13 increase. This one is not - - This one is not 14 included in the - - 15 ALDERMAN WADE: Is it included in here? 16 Is that this one? That's number 17. Correct? 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes, it is 18 included here. 19 ALDERMAN WADE: So it's included in 20 that number, so this would drop that number from 21 63 to 62. And if we pass this, this wouldn't 22 increase that number from 63 to 64. You know. I 23 just wanted to make sure that that was clear. 24 This - - This would drop the number of license. 25 This would not be add - - I mean, even if we had 00021 1 passed it, it wouldn't have been adding a number. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Right. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: It would have been at 4 63, because number 17 on our list is already 5 listed as a license on the concentration map. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Right. That's 7 correct. But in reality the place isn't open, 8 because of - - 9 ALDERMAN WADE: Right. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: But - - But you're 11 correct. According to the statistics, you are 12 absolutely correct. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Rebecca, I mean, Ms. 17 Grill, can correct me, but it would stay the 18 same. Because the license is still there. They 19 can come in and apply for the license, and 20 depending whether or not it gets granted, I mean. 21 The - - The license has been granted, just not 22 issued. So that number would stay the same. 23 MS. GRILL: That's correct. 24 That's - - 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you. 00022 1 MS. GRILL: That license expires on 2 September 27, 2008. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. So motion 4 is denial based on concentration of alcohol 5 beverage outlets. Are there any objections to 6 that motion? 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'll object, again. 8 ALDERMAN WADE: And I'll object to that 9 motion, too. 10 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Hearing two 11 objections, the motion carries on a vote of three 12 to two. Thank you. Thank you all for coming 13 down and testifying today. 14 THE APPLICANT: Then it's denied? 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: It's been 16 recommended for denial. Yes. 17 * * * * * 18 00023 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a full and complete transcript of the 11 CASA BLANCA FOOD & LIQUOR taken in the foregoing 12 proceedings. 13 14 15 16 17 18 JEAN M. BARINA 19 Court Reporter 20 21 22 Dated this day of March, 2008. 23