00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 UTILITIES & LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of a Class "B" Tavern and Tavern Dance PARTNERSHIP Renewal Applications for: 6 JEAN BRITTON and MARY GREENLEE 7 "Tap Whatever" 3716 N. Dr. M L King Jr 8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 9 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 10 ALD. JAMES BOHL - Chairman ALD. FREDERICK GORDON - Vice Chairman 11 ALD. JEFFREY PAWLINSKI ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK 12 LICENSING DIVISION by JAMES COPELAND 13 NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by KAREN JACOBS HEALTH DEPARTMENT by KEVIN HULBERT 14 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT JOHN HOGAN OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 15 16 17 Proceedings had and testimony given in 18 the above-entitled matter, before the UTILITIES & 19 LICENSES COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 20 the 29th day of April, 2003. 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: In the Sixth District 3 Jean Britton and Mary Greenlee, Class 'B' Tavern 4 and Tavern Dance partnership renewal applications 5 for "Tap Whatever" at 3716 North Dr. Martin 6 Luther King, Jr. Drive. 7 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: One moment. One 9 moment, Alderwoman Johnson-Odom. Good morning, 10 ladies. 11 THE APPLICANTS: Good morning. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And they are 13 represented by the infamous Michael Whitecomb. 14 MR. WHITECOMB: Good morning, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ladies, if you could 17 raise your right hand, please? 18 MS. ELMER: Do you solemnly swear to 19 tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 20 the truth, so help you God? 21 THE APPLICANTS: I do. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And do you ladies 23 acknowledge receiving notice of today's meeting 24 with the possibility that your application could 25 be denied due to items in the police report, as 00003 1 well as a neighborhood objection to loitering, 2 littering, litter, too many incidents involving 3 hand guns occurring in and around the premises, 4 and conduct which is detrimental to the health, 5 safety and welfare of the neighborhood? 6 MR. WHITECOMB: So acknowledged. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, counsel. 8 Health department? 9 HEALTH DEPARTMENT: No objection. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Neighborhood services. 11 DNS: No objections. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sergeant. 13 SERGEANT HOGAN: There's one incident 14 reported since the license was last issued, this 15 occurring on October the 27th of last year 16 shortly after two a.m. when a number of patrons 17 got into a dispute on the premises. It went 18 outside the premises. Shots were fired. Five 19 people were shot, one of them fatally. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Counsel, before 21 we - - we get into any retort you may have to 22 that, I - - This item is cited for neighborhood 23 objections. Are there any residents here to 24 testify either for or against this application? 25 Okay. Are you - - Are you in favor or are you 00004 1 opposed to this application? 2 THE WITNESS: Favor. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Sir, what about 4 you? 5 THE WITNESS: Favor. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Counsel - - 7 MR. WHITECOMB: Let the record reflect 8 that there are two neighbors that are in 9 attendance in favor. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Counsel, I'm going to - 11 - Before I get to - - to Alderwoman Johnson-Odom 12 and before you - - you go any further, I just 13 want to allow you to - - to provide any response 14 to the item in the police report at this time 15 here. 16 MR. WHITECOMB: Again, also for the 17 committee, in 2000 the Milwaukee Police 18 Department moved to revoke this - - this license 19 because of a shooting incident which occurred 20 outside the establishment. All of the other 21 incidents contained in the police report here 22 today were previously considered by the 23 committee. For those members who may not have 24 been here, I have a copy of the findings of fact 25 and the conclusions of this committee, which did 00005 1 not - - dismissed the revocation complaint and 2 those findings I'll refer to later, if necessary. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Schrimpf, I'm 4 assuming that you will have no objections to this 5 item being submitted. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: And I'm not an alderman. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You're - - You're not 8 elated with it, is what we're going to hear. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: I remember doing the 10 findings of fact and, yeah, I have no objections. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: With that, Alderman - - 12 With that, Alderman Dudzik will move to - - to 13 make the findings of fact part of our record. 14 There being no objections, so ordered. Go on, 15 Mr. Whitecomb. 16 MR. WHITECOMB: As - - As regards the 17 most recent incident, since the revocation 18 hearing of 2000, there have only been two 19 reported incidents that have appeared in the 20 notice today. Both incidents involved shootings 21 outside of the tavern. The one on May 5th, 2001 22 there was a shooting outside the tavern. The 23 tavern was closed at the time. The police came. 24 The tavern was opened. The police opened the 25 side door of the tavern, part of their 00006 1 investigation. While the investigation was 2 occurring, a youngster from the neighborhood came 3 to the location to see what was happening. He 4 came in through the side door, and he was on the 5 premises when the police were there. He was 6 cited, as was Ms. Greenlee, the licensee, and she 7 just paid the citation, but he - - he was - - I 8 just wanted to - - I note that to the committee 9 regarding the underage on premise to indicate 10 that it wasn't a person being served on the 11 premise. It was a - - an underage from the 12 neighborhood, curious as to the police 13 investigation of the shooting outside the tavern. 14 The incident of October 27th, 2002, 15 there wasn't an al - - altercation, to my 16 client's knowledge, that occurred inside the 17 tavern. The tavern closed early on October 27th. 18 That was the time that we set our clocks ahead 19 where taverns in Milwaukee can remain another 20 hour - - open another hour longer. However, Ms. 21 Greenlee closed an hour early, considering the 22 change of the clocks. The tavern had emptied. 23 It was quiet. It was a quiet night. About five 24 to ten minutes after the tavern was closed and 25 empty there was quite a bit of shooting outside 00007 1 on the street. There is a church parking lot to 2 the north of the tavern that ne'er-do-wells in 3 the neighborhood congregate at night to do their 4 trading and dealing, and an individual was shot 5 and killed, I understand. He was found by the 6 police on the sidewalk of - - or the driveway 7 apron for the parking lot. Ms. Greenlee has no 8 knowledge that any of the participants in this 9 encounter were patrons of the tavern. She had no 10 problems that night, and, in fact, her tavern was 11 closed for about five or ten minutes that evening 12 before the shooting occurred. 13 And as regards her operation in the 14 neighborhood, she's been there ten years, and 15 I'll use those favorable comments at closing. 16 But that is her knowledge of that incident. She 17 could speak to that directly if you want the 18 testimony as - - as more specific testimony as to 19 that incident. I must note that I've represented 20 Ms. Greenlee for about five years now, and I've 21 known her, and she's lived in that neighborhood a 22 good portion of her life. The kids, if you will, 23 know her. The kids that she grew up with are now 24 in their 20s and 30s, and they know her. And now 25 those that are from the neighborhood when they go 00008 1 to her tavern, they respect her. No difficulty 2 ever arises inside of her tavern, but as I 3 understand the incident of October 25th, there- - 4 there may have been people waiting for the bar to 5 close, because they were sitting on whoever they 6 wanted to attack waiting to leave the tavern. 7 That's the only thing that we can surmise. But 8 there wasn't any altercation inside the tavern 9 that evening with any of the patrons. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So you're denying that 11 portion of the police report as - - as it states 12 that that occurred. 13 MR. WHITECOMB: Correct. I can ask - - 14 You can ask Ms. Greenlee that. She was there 15 that evening. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If - - If you wanted to 17 do so, please. 18 MR. WHITECOMB: Ms. Greenlee, the 19 incident last October, you closed early because 20 of daylight savings time. Was there - - Were - - 21 Did you have any problems in the tavern that 22 evening? 23 MS. GREENLEE: No, it was a very nice 24 quiet night, and the only thing that was said 25 when I got ready to close, they asked me if I 00009 1 would please go the extra hour, and I said no, 2 because I was really tired and I was closing on 3 the old hour. So then my customers began to 4 leave the bar, and when they mostly all of them 5 had gone out, like maybe five or ten minutes, it 6 was a lot of shooting. And it wasn't one gun. 7 It was lots of guns then shot all up and down 8 Martin Luther King Drive in the rear, in the 9 back, all up on Atkinson, but what took place out 10 there, I am only going by what I heard, that some 11 of the young peoples told me that it was - - 12 about a hijacking of a car with gold rims, and 13 these suspects had been looking for these 14 particular guys, and they sat out and waited. 15 They spotted their car parked up around the 16 tavern. They sat outside and waited. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 18 MS. GREENLEE: Until the tavern let 19 out. And - - But they didn't respect any life on 20 the street, because they was shooting. It was 21 shots. You wouldn't even know who killed the 22 boy, because it was too many guns on the street. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And - - And, 24 counsel, you will acknowledge that hearsay is a 25 two-way street as well, to what she said. 00010 1 MS. GREENLEE: And we do - - We do 2 attach - - We do attach everybody that come into 3 the tavern, we have the metal detector. 4 MR. WHITECOMB: She's not necessarily 5 making those comments to prove the truth of the 6 matter stated. It is just to indicate that that 7 evening was very quiet inside the tavern. She 8 had no problems. And all that she had heard 9 after most of the people had left the tavern that 10 evening was a great deal of shooting. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there questions by 12 committee of Mr. Whitecomb or Ms. Greenlee at 13 this time? Alderwoman Johnson-Odom. 14 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: The postcard 15 survey was sent out to the neighborhood. There 16 were three opposed and two in favor of. I don't 17 know if any of the people who opposed are here 18 today. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I did ask that at the 20 very beginning, and there were only two 21 individuals here to testify in favor. 22 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Beg your 23 pardon? 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I did ask that 25 question, if there were any neighbors here to 00011 1 testify and there were two in favor and no one 2 indicated that they were opposed. I can ask 3 again. Are there any other neighbors here who 4 are testifying in opposition to this license 5 application? Okay. There are none, Alderwoman. 6 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Okay. So I 7 can't speak for them. I'll just let you know I 8 sent a postcard survey out, and the - - the 9 people who were opposed came before. Maybe they 10 just feel like it doesn't matter or whatever. I 11 - - Over the years Ms. Britton and Ms. Greenlee 12 have been operating this establishment and not 13 until recently has a situation gotten out of 14 control. That last murder that - - I don't know 15 if - - if it was in or outside or the man fell 16 there in front of their location, but it didn't 17 come from another tavern, because the one, Cocoa, 18 to the north up the street was closed at that 19 time. I have one other tavern in - - in that 20 block south of it, and I never hear anything from 21 it. It's so quiet that it just breezes through 22 license approval. I have nothing against the 23 proprietors, but the situation's out of control. 24 My constituents who were very adamant before are 25 against it. And so, I can't be for it today. 00012 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And so, are there 2 questions of Alderwoman Johnson-Odom by committee 3 members? 4 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 5 have a question. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Pawlinski. 7 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Well, just 8 regarding the - - the number of people that were 9 notified. I notice there were just five people 10 that were notified. Is that because there are 11 only five residents near this bar or there's - - 12 those are the only five that ever complained to 13 the office? 14 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: It - - It was 15 sent to 7th Street behind the bar. 16 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Okay. 17 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: And over by 18 the Green Bay Avenue school. So it was sent to 19 the immediate area. Maybe some people just don't 20 - - don't respond to those things, but - - And 21 there - - There were more than five cards sent 22 out. 23 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: There were, okay. 24 Because I was just looking at the sheet inside 25 our file. Do you know how many cards were sent 00013 1 out, total? 2 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Pardon? 3 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: How many cards did 4 you send out? 5 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: I - - I would 6 have to ask. 7 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Do we know, Mr. 8 Copeland? 9 MR. COPELAND: I don't have the exact 10 - - I don't know how many cards the alderperson 11 sent out in her survey. I know the cards we were 12 given that expressed that they were against it 13 and wanted to be notified, these are the people 14 you see listed on your list. 15 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: The five people 16 here. 17 MR. COPELAND: In talking to Alderman 18 - - Alderperson Johnson-Odom's aide, they - - she 19 informed me they had been receiving calls 20 regarding this establishment. Now whether those 21 people who called returned the card, I can't 22 testify to that fact. 23 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: It - - It was 24 a - - There was a list of people who had come 25 before, and it - - it was that list of people, 00014 1 the same people who came for Cocoa's - - 2 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Okay. 3 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: - - but were 4 - - were, you know, sent the postcard survey. So 5 I would say there must have been somewhere maybe 6 around 20. 7 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Well, I guess the 8 reason why I asked the question is because I'm 9 always curious as to, you know, why no one comes 10 to the committee to testify. I mean, even in 11 favor of the location, but certainly against. I 12 mean, obviously that's the motivation is if they 13 were interested in seeing the place closed that 14 they would show up. And with, you know, let's 15 say, 20 postcards mailed, there's nobody here 16 today. I mean, Alderwoman, do you think that's 17 because they feel that things have gotten better 18 in the last two or three years at this location, 19 or that there - - or is there - - I mean, can you 20 - - Do you know from firsthand experience as to 21 why they wouldn't be here? Is it that they're 22 satisfied or maybe they're frustrated with the 23 process, or what do you specifically know about 24 why they wouldn't be here today? 25 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Well, 00015 1 sometimes I find in - - in the - - in the heat of 2 what happened when the man was killed. 3 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Um-hnh. 4 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: The 5 newspapers, the reporters, and TV reporters 6 converge on me, what am I going to do about this? 7 Am I going to go through a revocation hearing. 8 And I call the police department, and it's so 9 difficult to get a revocation hearing process 10 going, and especially when it's something that 11 didn't occur within the - - within the tavern. 12 It's hard to really approve that. But what I'm 13 saying is that, you know, what's the difference 14 between an establishment like this and the ones 15 to the south of it that never has any problems. 16 There's something wrong with the operation if 17 there's out of control situations that go in or 18 around the location. But, I mean, you can only 19 go based on what the people in favor have to say 20 if they're residents, or if they're employees, or 21 if they're, you know, Ms. Britton, who is a 22 partner in this. I have nothing against them, 23 but things get out of control. What - - What can 24 I - - What can I say? If - - If something else 25 like this happens again, another murder. There 00016 1 was a shooting there in 2001 in that - - right in 2 front of the place. I don't know if they run in 3 there or what. There's been a history of 4 underage. So it just says to me that something 5 drastic needs to be done. Maybe they're really 6 not minding the store the way they should be. I 7 don't know. But we have far too many licensees 8 coming before us saying they can't control what 9 goes on on the outside, and maybe they can't, but 10 they can con - - control the kind of condition 11 that go on on the inside that don't invite that 12 kind of activity around their location. 13 I don't - - I don't know, but if - - if 14 we - - I mean, Cocoa's is closed, and that 15 probably be closed for a very, very long time, or 16 have a different kind of operation there other 17 than a tavern. But if - - If this happens - - If 18 this is approved and it happens again next year, 19 what do I - - what do I say. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I just have a follow-up 21 question for Sergeant Hogan. According to item 22 number seven in the police report, it - - it 23 indicates that at least the officer who - - who 24 filed this it states that, "And upon my 25 investigation revealed there were altercations 00017 1 with several unknown actors inside the address." 2 I know that counsel has disputed that. Is there 3 a more elaborate description in the - - the 4 formal PA33 that would lend itself to - - 5 SERGEANT HOGAN: I think that's it. 6 Let me just doublecheck. 7 "The officers report," and I'll quote, 8 "The scene was safeguarded. Upon my 9 investigation there were altercations with 10 several unknown actors inside the address 3716 11 North Martin Luther King Drive, Tap Whatever, and 12 upon going outside, numerous shots were fired 13 that resulted in five victims being shot." 14 That's all the information I have. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Are there any 16 other questions for Alderwoman Johnson-Odom at 17 this point? 18 Mr. Whitecomb, I don't know how 19 extensive the two people who are here to testify 20 in favor of, or necessarily what they could say, 21 but I - - I mean, I would prefer to - - to in the 22 interest of time, bring them forward and - - and 23 have them - - 24 MR. WHITECOMB: Absolutely. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: - - relay their - - 00018 1 their name and their address and just that they 2 are in support of the license. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, before 4 that happens. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: I would - - I don't 7 think Mr. Whitecomb's going to have a problem 8 with it, but I think we ought to have the entire 9 police report received into the record. Mr. 10 Whitecomb has already put in the findings of fact 11 previously which essentially tracks that 12 information anyways. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. With that - - 14 MR. WHITECOMB: Which police report are 15 you referring to? 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The one that is in the 17 file for us. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: The one that's in the 19 file. 20 MR. WHITECOMB: Oh, fine. This one. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman - - Alderman 22 Pawlinski will move to make the police report 23 part of our file - - part of the record. There 24 being no objections, so ordered. 25 Mr. Whitecomb, if you want to move the 00019 1 - - the two residents here briefly, and we'll 2 just ask for their - - their name and - - and 3 their address, and then they can just briefly 4 state that they are in favor of the license 5 application. Could I - - Could I have both of 6 you raise your right hand. It's for here, too. 7 MS. ELMER: Do you solemnly swear to 8 tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 9 the truth, so help you God? 10 THE WITNESS: I do. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Go ahead, 12 ma'am. 13 MS. MINTER: My name is Irene Minter. 14 And I live at 3750, letter A, North 11th Street. 15 And I've been going to Tap Whatever ever since 16 they opened. I think I was like their first 17 customer. And I work second shift, so I go by 18 every night when I come from work. I work in 19 West Bend. So when I get to Milwaukee, I go to 20 see if Mary's there by herself for not. Make 21 sure somebody's there with her. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: Otherwise, they've been 24 very nice people to me. M-I-N-T-E-R. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any questions 00020 1 by committee? Okay. Thank you. 2 MR. WHITECOMB: How would you describe 3 the clientele of the bar, Tap Whatever? 4 THE WITNESS: The clientele varies. It 5 varies. Sometime you get your middle 20s crowd 6 that's basically ones that's there when I get 7 there about quarter to 11 every night. And 8 otherwise, it's a few older people, I would say, 9 like me and Eddie, a few of the rest of them, the 10 pool shooters, the guys that shoot pool. 11 MR. WHITECOMB: Clientele well behaved? 12 THE WITNESS: Yeah. We have no problem 13 with them. 14 MR. WHITECOMB: Ever notice any 15 disturbances or fights inside the tavern 16 THE WITNESS: No, I haven't. No, I 17 haven't. 18 MR. WHITECOMB: And on the weekends 19 there's a - - a doorman. Correct? 20 THE WITNESS: I'm not there on 21 weekends. I very seldom go by there on weekends, 22 because I stop there every night. So on weekends 23 I very seldom go. 24 MR. WHITECOMB: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any questions by 00021 1 committee? Okay. Thank you, Ms. Minter. Sir, 2 do you want to come forward and - - Sir, if you 3 could provide your - - your name and your 4 address? 5 THE WITNESS: Eddie Webb. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And spelling of the 7 last name, sir? 8 THE WITNESS: W-E-B-B. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Webb, your 10 address, please? 11 THE WITNESS: 3801A North 6th. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, Mr. Webb, very 13 briefly, any testimony you have? 14 THE WITNESS: I moved in the 15 neighborhood about going on eight years, and I 16 - - All the time I go over there and play pool. 17 About times she open and everything, I stay there 18 until somebody else come and then I leave, so 19 Mary won't be there by herself. I do that most 20 every day. 21 MR. WHITECOMB: On the weekends, as 22 well? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 MR. WHITECOMB: And what is the crowd 25 or the clientele like at the bar? 00022 1 THE WITNESS: It's slow, but after it 2 get late they start coming in. I say, "Here 3 comes the crowd", you know. 4 MR. WHITECOMB: Was the crowd well 5 behaved that you have seen? 6 THE WITNESS: No. Uh-uh. 7 MR. WHITECOMB: Sir? 8 THE WITNESS: All the stuff starts 9 after they leave the tavern, or they been 10 someplace else then come there. 11 MR. WHITECOMB: Have you ever seen any 12 problems inside the tavern? 13 THE WITNESS: No. No problems. Uh-uh. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Webb, a question 15 for you. I - - I'm somewhat confused by some of 16 your testimony. Are you saying that some of the 17 - - You indicated that you don't see problems 18 with clientele when they come in the bar. Do you 19 ever see any of the clientele from this location 20 when they leave the premises where it's 21 problematic, their behavior? 22 THE WITNESS: No. Uh-uh. No. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So you - - So you're 24 saying that you - - you never see any problems 25 with patrons of this establishment, either when 00023 1 they come or when they leave the premises 2 outside? 3 THE WITNESS: Everything - - All I know 4 everything happens after they leave the tavern. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: When - - When you 6 related, "Everything happens," are you talking 7 about - - 8 THE WITNESS: About time. Closing 9 time. Say, she close up about maybe 1:30, you 10 know. Then they say everybody have to leave, and 11 she's - - They clean up and everything. But all 12 that happened after we closed the door. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are you - - Are you 14 frequently a customer that sticks around to - - 15 to closing hour? 16 THE WITNESS: Most of the time, yes. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And when you - - you 18 leave the establishment, do you sometimes see 19 problems with the patrons as they're leaving? 20 THE WITNESS: No. I ain't seen none 21 yet. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm sort of getting 23 crosswires in terms of what your response is 24 here, because you seem to be saying both things. 25 Other questions by committee? Okay. Mr. Webb, 00024 1 thank you very much. 2 Alderwoman Johnson-Odom, are there any 3 last minute things you'd like to say at this 4 point? 5 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Well, I'm - - 6 Neither live directly in the area. 11th Street 7 is across the freeway. I didn't say that they 8 were bad people. As Alderman Richards say, "Bad 9 things happen to good people." I just feel that 10 it is at certain times it's out of control. I 11 would hate to have a third person murdered 12 outside that place. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Whitecomb - - 14 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: It's not 15 their - - It might not be their fault. Nobody 16 knows. It's not their fault that the person gets 17 murdered, but - - 18 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 19 have a question. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Pawlinski. 21 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Mr. Whitecomb, can 22 you confirm for me or - - or tell the committee 23 how much time is spent at the bar with the disc 24 jockey spinning records? I mean, is that - - is 25 that a major component of the operation? 00025 1 MR. WHITECOMB: How often do you have a 2 DJ spinning records? 3 THE APPLICANT: Usually someone's 4 birthday. We don't have a DJ. 5 MR. WHITECOMB: So it's for parties 6 only. 7 THE APPLICANT: Like somebody I rent 8 birthday party. We don't - - We don't have a 9 regular DJ. 10 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: So ten times a 11 year? 12 THE APPLICANT: Maybe about five times 13 a year. 14 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: What about live 15 musicians? How many times a year do you think 16 you have live musicians? 17 THE APPLICANT: Once. That didn't work 18 out for us. 19 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: So you don't even 20 have them? I guess I'm just maybe trying to 21 split the baby here, if you will, trying to 22 figure out whether there is a correlation between 23 disc jockey nights and the nights in which there 24 may have been some problems. I'm not sure that 25 there is a strong relationship between the two, 00026 1 but that's what I was trying to hunt for. That's 2 really all I had, Mr. Chairman. 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Whitecomb, if you 4 can be very brief in your - - 5 MR. WHITECOMB: Ms. Britton would like 6 to make a comment. 7 MS. BRITTON: I'd like to add, Ms. 8 Marlene Johnson - - 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Ms. Britton - - Ms. 10 Britton - - 11 MR. WHITECOMB: You talk to the 12 committee. 13 MS. BRITTON: Oh, I'm sorry. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: What - - What - - You 15 always have to address everything to the 16 committee, please, and - - and we don't want a 17 give and take. 18 MS. BRITTON: Okay. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So if you want to add 20 something that you'd like to respond or add 21 comments, please do so. 22 MS. BRITTON: Yes, I would like to 23 respond to her saying, she's saying that the 24 cards out to the neighborhood, every 25 neighborhood, the - - the people in the back are 00027 1 - - are our customers. That's really not down 2 here. What would they do if we couldn't give 3 them a meal every once in a while. They don't 4 have the money. Or a pack of cigarettes when 5 they don't have it. Everybody on the sides are 6 our customers. That's the reason they're not 7 here. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. Whitecomb, 9 you - - you finished then? 10 MR. WHITECOMB: Yeah. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 12 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: I - - I have 13 one question, Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Briefly, Alderwoman 15 Johnson. 16 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: On October 17 the 27th last year, 2002, was there a - - a party 18 going on in the tavern? Was there, you know, the 19 tavern/dance? Was there a spin or something at 20 that particular - - 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mrs. - - Mrs. Greenlee 22 or Mrs. - - Mrs. Britton, what Alderwoman 23 Johnson-Odom is asking is on the night of the 24 shooting here last October - - 25 MS. GREENLEE: The night of the 00028 1 shooting, no. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: - - was there - - was 3 there a party where there was a DJ or a band? 4 MS. BRITTON: No. No. 5 ALDERWOMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: It was a 6 Saturday, right? And you said daylight saving 7 time, that's a Saturday. 8 MR. WHITECOMB: Correct. 9 MS. GREENLEE: Right. 10 MR. WHITECOMB: Did you have a - - a 11 disc jockey that night of the shooting last 12 October? 13 MS. GREENLEE: It was not a Saturday 14 night. That happened on a Friday night. 15 MR. WHITECOMB: 27th. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Daylight savings is a 17 Saturday night. It's a Sunday morning. 18 MS. GREENLEE: Yeah, it was a Saturday. 19 It was a Saturday. 20 MS. BRITTON: No, we did not have a 21 party. 22 MR. WHITECOMB: Did you have a DJ 23 there? 24 MS. BRITTON: No. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Alrighty. This 00029 1 - - This item is in committee. Is there a motion 2 by committee members? 3 ALDERMAN GORDON: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon. 5 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you. I'm 6 disturbed by the number of shootings that have 7 taken place in or near this establishment over 8 the last three years, going back to 2000. You 9 had a shooting in which someone was killed, and 10 the police report indicates that this shooting 11 took place inside the bar. 12 MR. WHITECOMB: Alderman, I - - 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Whitecomb. 14 MR. WHITECOMB: I didn't - - I didn't 15 have an opportunity to close, and I would have 16 addressed that. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Whitecomb, I - - I 18 asked you if - - if you were finished, and you 19 said you were. 20 MR. WHITECOMB: Well, I thought you 21 were addressing the witness. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I - - I'm going to rule 23 that we are in committee now. I asked you for 24 that opportunity. You did indicate that you were 25 finished. So, go ahead, Alderman Gordon. 00030 1 ALDERMAN GORDON: Again, since June of 2 2000 you've had two shooting incidents, one which 3 resulted in a fatality. There are incidents 4 involving the presence of underage persons. 5 There are incidents regarding minors, at least 6 two, indicated in 2001, and then in 2002 another 7 shooting outside the establishment which 8 resulted, again, in a fatality. So you have a 9 location here that in recent years has 10 experienced a great deal of turmoil, and 11 certainly has been a problem in the neighborhood, 12 and I guess my concern is is that, you know, 13 given the clientele change which has already been 14 testified to by at least one of your witnesses, 15 that seems to be the problem. The clientele must 16 change after a certain point in time on the 17 weekends, which is where it seems to be that 18 these incidents are taking place. And it's very 19 disturbing, obviously. 20 I'm not sure that this location has 21 ever had a suspension, and I guess I would ask 22 Mr. Copeland, if, in fact, that has been the 23 case? 24 MR. COPELAND: Not to my knowledge. I 25 would have to check the records downstairs. 00031 1 MR. WHITECOMB: Ten years, it hasn't. 2 ALDERMAN GORDON: Okay. In ten years 3 it hasn't. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on, Mr. Schrimpf. 6 Go ahead, Alderman. 7 ALDERMAN GORDON: So what I'm going to 8 recommend this time is that the license be 9 renewed with a 30 day suspension, and that will 10 give the licensees an opportunity to work with 11 the alderperson and to perhaps instill or install 12 some security measures relative to the clientele 13 problem that seems to be existing at this 14 location, because we just certainly can't look 15 askance at this trend when you have shootings 16 going on in and around the location, and I think 17 that it needs to be addressed. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: The - - The motion 19 before us is renewal of the Class 'B' Tavern and 20 Tavern Dance partnership with a 30 day 21 suspension. Mr. Schrimpf, on the motion? 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Yeah, Mis - - Mr. 23 Chairman, I just want to point out, Alderman 24 Gordon made reference to underage. Just so that 25 the committee is clear and just so that the 00032 1 alderman is clear, there is not presented in the 2 police report a basis under Section 125.12 to 3 take any action with respect to underage. So 4 with that knowledge, maybe you want to reconsider 5 the motion, maybe you don't want to reconsider 6 the motion. That's up to the committee. But I 7 just want to call that to you attention. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Gordon, is 9 the - - 10 ALDERMAN GORDON: No. My motion 11 stands. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: His motion stands. 13 Okay. And that's - - that's duly noted. Are 14 there any other comments on the motion? Are 15 there any objections to the motion? Hearing 16 none, so ordered. Mr. Schrimpf. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Whitecomb, the 18 committee will be doing findings of fact and 19 conclusions of law recommending renewal of this 20 license with a 30 day suspension. You will have 21 an opportunity to submit written objections to 22 those findings of fact. You'll receive a copy of 23 those as well as have the opportunity to submit 24 written objections and to appear before the 25 Common Council when they take this matter up at 00033 1 approximately nine a.m., I believe, on May 13th, 2 Mr. Chairman? 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yes. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: May 13th, 2003 in the 5 Common Council chambers of this building. 6 MR. WHITECOMB: My office will accept 7 service of those findings of fact and conclusions 8 on behalf of the licensee. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Mr. 10 Whitecomb. 11 * * * * * * 00034 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN) 2 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 3 4 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 5 Associated, Inc., do certify that the foregoing 6 transcript was reduced to writing under my direction 7 and that it is a true and accurate transcription of 8 the Utilities & Licenses Hearing held on April 29, 9 2003. 10 11 12 JEAN M. BARINA - COURT REPORTER 13 Dated this day of May, 2003. 14 15