00001 1 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 2 COMMON COUNCIL 3 4 5 In the Matter of: 6 7 JUNIOR'S SPORTS BAR & GRILL 8 5409 North Green Bay Avenue 9 10 Proceedings held in the above-entitled 11 matter, commencing at 9:30 a.m., March 25th, 2003, in 12 the Common Council Chambers, 200 East Wells Street, 13 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, before the Common Council, 14 reported by Terese M. Schiebenes of Milwaukee 15 Reporters Associated, Inc. 16 A-P-P-E-A-R-A-N-C-E-S 17 GONZALEZ, SAGGIO & HARLAN, LLP, by ERIN C. 18 HUGHES, 225 East Michigan, 4th Floor, Milwaukee, 19 Wisconsin, 53202, Appeared on behalf of the Licensee. 20 21 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY, By BRUCE 22 SCHRIMPF, 200 East Wells Street Milwaukee, 23 Wisconsin, 53202, appeared on behalf of the Common 24 Council. 25 00002 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 PRESIDENT PRATT: Will the Clerk please 3 identify the matters before the Council. 4 THE CLERK: The Utilities & Licenses further 5 recommends approval of Item 4, File 021394, motion to 6 approve recommendations of the Utilities & Licenses 7 Committee relative to issuance, denial, renewal, 8 nonrenewal, suspension, or revocation of licenses and 9 extension of premises. 10 The committee makes the following 11 recommendations: One; renewal with a 10-day 12 suspension of the Class B Tavern and Tavern Dance 13 License for Devon L. Reid for the premises located at 14 5409 North Green Bay Avenue known as Junior's Sports 15 Bar & Grill. Written exceptions have been filed. 16 ... 17 PRESIDENT PRATT: Have members of the 18 Council read the Report and Recommendations of the 19 Utilities & Licenses Committee and the written 20 exceptions in these matters? Will the City Clerk 21 please call the roll. 22 THE CLERK: Alderman D'Amato. 23 ALDERMAN D'AMATO: Aye. 24 THE CLERK: Alderman Henningsen. 25 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: Aye. 00003 1 THE CLERK: Alderman Bohl. 2 ALDERMAN BOHL: Aye. 3 THE CLERK: Alderman Johnson-Odom. 4 ALDERMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: Aye. 5 THE CLERK: Alderman Gordon. 6 ALDERMAN GORDON: Aye. 7 THE CLERK: Alderman Donovan. 8 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Aye. 9 THE CLERK: Alderman Richards. 10 ALDERMAN RICHARDS: Aye. 11 THE CLERK: Alderman Dudzik. 12 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Aye. 13 THE CLERK: Alderman Sanchez. 14 ALDERMAN SANCHEZ: Aye. 15 THE CLERK: Alderman Pawlinski. 16 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Aye. 17 THE CLERK: Alderman Breier. 18 ALDERMAN BRIER: Aye. 19 THE CLERK: Alderman Nardelli. 20 ALDERMAN NARDELLI: Aye. 21 THE CLERK: Alderman Murphy. 22 ALDERMAN MURPHY: Aye. 23 THE CLERK: Alderman Hines. 24 ALDERMAN HINES: Aye. 25 THE CLERK: Mr. President. 00004 1 PRESIDENT PRATT: Aye. 2 THE CLERK: 15 ayes. 3 PRESIDENT PRATT: 15 ayes. 4 THE CLERK: Are any of the following 5 applicants or their counsel present and wish to 6 address the Council: Devon L. Reid? 7 PRESIDENT PRATT: Counsel is present. 8 ... 9 PRESIDENT PRATT: Is there a motion to go 10 into the committee as a whole to hear oral arguments 11 on behalf of the licensee in opposition to the Report 12 and Recommendations and a statement presented by the 13 city attorney? 14 ALDERMAN SANCHEZ: So moved. 15 PRESIDENT PRATT: Alderman Sanchez would so 16 move. Is there any opposition to the motion? 17 Each side shall be limited -- We will hear 18 from the counsel representing in the matter of Devon 19 L. Reid, we will hear from the counsel and from the 20 city attorney. Each side shall be limited to five 21 minutes, and their argument shall be limited to the 22 subject matter, Report and Recommendations, and the 23 written exceptions. We will hear from the attorney 24 representing Mr. Reid first, if you could identify 25 yourself for the record and your comments. 00005 1 MS. HUGHES: Good morning, Common Council 2 members. I am Erin Hughes, I am an attorney at 3 Gonzalez, Saggio & Harlan, and I'm here on behalf of 4 Junior's Sports Bar & and Grill and its agent, Devon 5 Reid. I am joined by Mr. Reid and his wife, Nicole 6 Reid. 7 As you know, the Utilities & Licensing 8 Committee has recommended that Mr. Reid's Class B 9 Tavern and Tavern Dance License be renewed contingent 10 upon a 10-day suspension to be served April 25th 11 through May 5th, 2003. We are here today in 12 opposition to the recommended 10-day suspension. 13 Mr. Reid has worked diligently to eliminate 14 any and all problems in connection with Junior's 15 patrons. Mr. Reid employs three security guards who 16 patrol the parking lot at closing time and expedite 17 the exit of patrons from the adjacent parking lot in 18 an orderly and timely fashion. Mr. Reid has 19 graciously offered neighbors his personal cell phone 20 number and instructed them to call him at any time of 21 the night if they have any concerns. Mr. Reid has 22 scheduled quarterly meetings at Junior's for all 23 concerned neighbors in an effort to afford these 24 concerned neighbors an open forum in which to voice 25 their issues. In fact, there are already meetings 00006 1 scheduled for April 19th and July 12th of this year. 2 Additionally, Mr. Reid has enacted a policy 3 at Junior's that will consist of an announcement 4 played over the establishment's PA system each evening 5 at closing time. This announcement will instruct 6 patrons to leave Junior's in an orderly, timely, and 7 most importantly, quiet manner. The message will 8 remind patrons that they must be respectful of the 9 citizens who reside in close proximity to Junior's. 10 The message will remind patrons that it is their 11 responsibility to leave Junior's in a respectful and 12 acceptable manner. 13 The truth is almost every business that has 14 a liquor license at one time or another has problems 15 with patrons. Clearly, however, Mr. Reid is making 16 every effort he can to assure that Junior's and those 17 who reside close to Junior's are able to co-exist 18 peacefully. Mr. Reid respects the concerns of those 19 neighbors and wants nothing more than to address and 20 solve any issues they may have with this 21 establishment. 22 It is important to note that Junior's uses 23 the parking lot adjacent to it with the permission of 24 the owner of that parking lot, the Eastbrook Church. 25 The church is Junior's closest neighbor and has 00007 1 supported Junior's use of the parking lot for many 2 years. The church has never complained to Mr. Reid, 3 to the Milwaukee Police Department, or to the 4 Utilities & Licensing Committee regarding Junior's 5 patrons. 6 Junior's is a very long-standing, well run 7 minority-owned business in Milwaukee that provides a 8 much needed social gathering spot for Milwaukee's 9 professional African-American and multicultural 10 community. I know you have received many letters of 11 support from community members opposing the 12 recommended suspension. Junior's is such a beloved 13 institution in Milwaukee that a number of its loyal 14 patrons have taken time out of their work day to be 15 here today in support of Junior's and Mr. Reid. 16 The most significant aspect of the Utilities 17 & Licensing Committee's recommendation regarding 18 Junior's is the fact that the Milwaukee Police 19 Department has absolutely no objection to the renewal 20 of Junior's tavern license. I am unaware of any other 21 occasion where an establishment's tavern license was 22 suspended for 10 days absent an objection to that 23 license by the Milwaukee Police Department. If the 24 Common Council were to adopt the recommendation of the 25 Utilities & Licensing Committee and suspend Junior's 00008 1 license for 10 days, it would be reinforcing the 2 belief that some people have regarding the 3 inconsistency of the Utilities & Licensing Committee's 4 decision making process. There are situations where 5 an establishment has numerous objections from the 6 Milwaukee Police Department but still the committee 7 approves their license renewal with no suspension, 8 then there are cases where one or two neighbors may 9 complain and one police objection is on file and a 10 license renewal is denied or suspended. There does 11 not appear to be any uniformity as to how the 12 Utilities & Licensing Committee makes their 13 determination. 14 If the Common Council were to adopt the 15 committee's recommendation that Junior's tavern 16 license be suspended for 10 days, you would be 17 reinforcing the perception that the committee's 18 decision are made in a non-uniform manner. You would 19 be putting tavern owners in a position where they are 20 unclear as to what legitimate steps they need to take 21 in order to secure the renewal of their license. 22 For all of these reasons, we respectfully 23 request that the Common Council approve the renewal of 24 Junior's Class B Tavern and Tavern Dance License 25 without the 10-day suspension. At this time, I invite 00009 1 you to pose any questions you may have either to 2 myself or to Mr. Reid. Thank you for your time. 3 PRESIDENT PRATT: Are there any questions? 4 Alderman Paul Henningsen. 5 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: Well, the hearing was 6 very interesting. I watched it fully on TV. And 7 there were how many people that testified, three? 8 MS. HUGHES: Approximately four or five. 9 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: Four. Now, it stated 10 in your Brief in Opposition, which, by the way, I 11 thought was the best written and argued Brief in 12 Opposition that we've ever read here -- 13 MS. HUGHES: Thank you. 14 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: -- that the neighbors 15 who were closer to the tavern than the three or four 16 who objected never appeared, and they had no 17 objection. 18 MS. HUGHES: True. The neighbors who 19 objected are approximately 1/3rd of a mile away from 20 Junior's. 21 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: I think that's a very 22 telling fact. We have to go out of the committee as a 23 whole to make statements I understand, Mr. Chairman, 24 correct? 25 PRESIDENT PRATT: Yes. Any other questions 00010 1 of Attorney Hughes? Alderman Hines. 2 ALDERMAN HINES: Thank you. Ms. Hughes, do 3 you know whether or not your client has ever had a 4 suspension before? 5 MS. HUGHES: No, he has not. 6 ALDERMAN HINES: Has he ever been cited by 7 the police department over the last few years? 8 MS. HUGHES: No, not to his recollection, he 9 has not. 10 ALDERMAN HINES: How long has he been in 11 business? 12 MS. HUGHES: Nine years. 13 ALDERMAN HINES: Nine years. Thank you. 14 PRESIDENT PRATT: Any other questions of 15 Attorney Hughes? If not, thank you very much, 16 Attorney Hughes. We will now hear from Assistant City 17 Attorney Bruce Schrimpf. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: Good morning, Mr. President, 19 members. The Utilities & Licenses Committee after 20 hearing the evidence recommended renewal of this 21 license with a 10-day suspension, not subject to a 22 10-day suspension. 23 With respect to the testimony that was 24 received, a number of neighbors, particularly one 25 neighbor testified to the fact that she actually has 00011 1 to leave her house on weekends during the summertime 2 because of the noise that is generated from this 3 place. I recognize that some of these neighbors may 4 not live immediately adjacent to the tavern, but the 5 fact of the matter is is that the parking within the 6 church is not sufficient. It requires cars to park 7 throughout the neighborhood, and a number of neighbors 8 have been subjected to disturbances as a result of the 9 closing, particularly on weekends, particularly during 10 the summer months. 11 Another neighbor testified to having a 12 picket fence vandalized, the fence taken apart, and 13 then the combatants using the pickets of the fence to 14 engage in a fight with each other. The neighbors also 15 presented a videotape that showed a number of vehicles 16 cruising the immediate neighborhood wherein the tavern 17 is located, and indeed, one of the cars drove the 18 wrong way on a boulevarded street, which is Green Bay 19 Avenue, in order to get into the parking lot of the 20 church. The parking lot of the church, as I had 21 indicated, on a number of occasions, particularly on 22 the weekends, has overflow traffic, and as a result 23 the disturbance has spread to the adjoining 24 neighborhood. 25 The committee was aware of the fact that 00012 1 there were a number of supporters, the committee was 2 aware of the fact that the tavern itself does not have 3 a particularly bad reputation, and that, in fact, it 4 is a well recognized location in the neighborhood. 5 There are, however, significant problems. These 6 neighbors testified to them, and their testimony was 7 essentially uncontradicted. Mr. Reid was represented 8 by counsel at the hearing. 9 As a result, the committee recommended 10 renewal with a 10-day suspension. I would remind the 11 Common Council that 10 days is the minimum suspension, 12 that there is -- obviously, the committee recognized 13 the need to start a process of progressive discipline 14 regarding this location, and that the recommendation 15 was for renewal with a 10-day suspension. 16 I stand ready to answer any questions you 17 may have. 18 PRESIDENT PRATT: Attorney Schrimpf, just 19 one point of clarification. Mr. Reid was not 20 represented by counsel at the committee hearing. 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: I'm sorry, I may have 22 misspoke. Let me check. I believe that's correct, 23 Mr. Reid was not represented by counsel, so I misspoke 24 on that. I'm sorry. 25 PRESIDENT PRATT: Alderwoman Suzanne Breier. 00013 1 ALDERWOMAN BREIER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 Mr. Schrimpf, one question I have for you is, it was 3 mentioned that the police didn't have an objection. 4 Is it not true that for a long time now, the police do 5 not object to licenses, they merely present 6 information? 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you very much, Alderman 8 Breier for bringing up that point. That is true. The 9 police department has taken the posture that they 10 present information. In this particular case, there 11 was -- the police report contained no incidents in 12 addition to that, which indicates that, although the 13 police were called -- and there was one neighbor who 14 produced some evidence that indeed police were called 15 on a number of occasions -- the police department, for 16 one reason or another, did not either issue a citation 17 or did not write a PA-33, commonly referred to as a 18 tavern report, and it is true that there was no police 19 attachment, if you will. 20 ALDERWOMAN BREIER: And as you said, Mr. 21 Schrimpf, some people said there that they had called 22 the police? 23 MR. SCHRIMPF: Yes. And they presented 24 evidence that they called police, they presented a CAD 25 report. 00014 1 ALDERWOMAN BREIER: Do you ever check up 2 with the police department out of concern that the 3 police were called, and these -- what are they, P33s? 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: PA-33s. 5 ALDERWOMAN BREIER: -- PA-33s were not 6 filed? 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: I did not in this particular 8 case. I have had some conversations with the police 9 department in other cases regarding that. 10 ALDERWOMAN BREIER: Thank you. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Any other questions? Thank 12 you. 13 PRESIDENT PRATT: No. There are two other 14 lights on, Attorney Schrimpf. Alderman Pawlinski, 15 then Alderman Hines. Alderman Pawlinski. 16 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Thank you. Mr. 17 Schrimpf, I just have a quick question. Regardless of 18 the merits of this case or not, I think it's important 19 to clarify. Can you, in fact, confirm, based on your 20 experience as the assistant city attorney of the 21 Licensing Committee, that the committee has, in fact, 22 suspended licenses in the past were there were no 23 police incident reports and solely on the basis of 24 neighborhood objections? 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Sure, it happens all the 00015 1 time, Alderman. 2 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Thank you very much. 3 PRESIDENT PRATT: Anything else? 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. 5 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: Move the committee 6 rise. 7 PRESIDENT PRATT: Motion by Alderman 8 Henningsen that the committee rise. Are there any 9 objections to that? Hearing and seeing none, so 10 ordered. Alderman Henningsen. 11 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: I appreciate the work 12 that the Utilities & License Committee does, 13 especially at the last meeting. They had a long, long 14 agenda, and this item certainly took longer than 15 anticipated, and as I said before, I watched the 16 entire matter over Channel 25. I'm glad we have it. 17 In my opinion -- I first should say I'm 18 acquainted somewhat with Devon Reid, and I'd just like 19 to say I know him to be a serious businessman, I know 20 him to protect his license, which is actually a very 21 worthwhile, a very -- it's a good tavern, it does a 22 lot of business, and Mr. Reid has certainly taken care 23 that he doesn't lose his license, and he's taken a lot 24 of prevention efforts. He's having community meetings 25 every quarter, he's given his cell phone number to 00016 1 certain neighbors. And I don't think the occurrences 2 or the truth of those occurrences rise to a 3 suspension. He's going to work with the neighbors, 4 he's going to give them his cell phone number. 5 As I said before, I think the most telling 6 factor is the immediate neighbors and the church had 7 no objection to the renewal. A lot of people were 8 noticed. Sometimes in the eyes of the neighbors 9 relative to past use of the location, a place is too 10 popular, and they get annoyed simply because of the 11 popularity, not because it is run badly. And so I 12 would make a motion to approve the renewal 13 notwithstanding the recommendation of the committee. 14 This is one of the finest and most popular 15 places in town, I must say to reveal that my 16 stepdaughter goes here quite a bit and has told me 17 about the operation. 18 PRESIDENT PRATT: Thank you, Alderman. 19 Alderman Tom Nardelli. 20 ALDERMAN NARDELLI: Thank you very much, Mr. 21 President. Just to speak quickly to two issues, one 22 which was previously addressed with regard to the 23 Milwaukee Police Department's recommendations. They 24 have not made recommendations on licensing under the 25 order of Chief Jones over six years ago, so they have 00017 1 not made recommendations either way. They do issue 2 incident reports. And I watched the committee hearing 3 myself, as well, and I know that there was great 4 discussion, and finally, Sergeant Hogan was given 5 copies of the documents provided by the public with 6 regard to the CAD reports. He verified, in fact, that 7 those document were, in fact, those provided by the 8 Milwaukee Police Department that identified that there 9 had been calls to that location. 10 PRESIDENT PRATT: Just one question, 11 Alderman. Do the police make a report, though? They 12 do have police records of licenses. 13 ALDERMAN NARDELLI: They usually do, yes, I 14 don't know why they didn't have it in this case, but 15 the witnesses refuted the fact that the police 16 department had nothing, when, in fact, they were able to 17 produce evidence that, in fact, there were calls. 18 that's the issue. And Sergeant Hogan confirmed that, 19 in fact, those CAD reports were accurate and maybe the 20 information we got wasn't. Who knows why. I don't 21 know what goes on in the Milwaukee Police Department 22 any more than what anybody else does. 23 Also, the counselor made some reference to 24 the fact that most licenses have problems. Well, I'm 25 going to assure you about 85 percent of the licenses 00018 1 in the City of Milwaukee, once they're given a 2 license, never come back before the Licensing 3 Committee. That's been my history in my 16-1/2 years 4 here, so that's a bogus comment. We shouldn't listen 5 to that. 6 I think the problem here is that this place 7 is probably run very well on the inside and that the 8 problems really emanate from the problems caused by 9 patrons as they leave at the end of the evening. The 10 Maze over on Appleton Avenue is a good indicator where 11 there was no problems inside of the building, but the 12 patrons created serious havoc outside at closing time 13 to the point that they disrupted a lot of citizens 14 in that Appleton area. Similarly, we had a problem at 15 the Empire Room on the northwest side, where the 16 patrons drove the wrong way, crossed over the 17 boulevard, were just absolutely tyrants when it came 18 to closing time, and it was a problem, but the place 19 ran extremely well on the inside. 20 This apparently does not rise to quite that 21 level, because I watched the hearing, and while there 22 were objections to it, they didn't appear to be as 23 voluminous as we saw with The Maze and we saw also at 24 The Empire Room, which, by the way, closed on its own 25 volition because of a shooting, and then I think, as I 00019 1 recall, there was one in the 13th Aldermanic District 2 that Alderman Pawlinski had which created a similar 3 problem at closing time. 4 Now, if this gentleman, the owner, is 5 suggesting that they can control the environment 6 outside at closing time, I think possibly the 10 days 7 might be -- and I know that somebody made a motion for 8 five, and that can't be done, 10 is the minimum, and 9 that may be harsh given the fact that given the 10 arguments that were made by the people who appeared 11 and provided testimony. But I think it is a licensed 12 location that members of the Common Council need to 13 watch in the future, because if a place such as this 14 becomes so popular and because there have been 15 problems with other locations that have been shut 16 down, this may be a problem that could be brewing, and 17 the owner needs to be made aware of the fact that at 18 least two, maybe even three locations on the northwest 19 side, I think there was also one on Fond du Lac 20 Avenue, no longer are in business, and that can create 21 some problems in the future. 22 So a 10-day suspension that might be negated 23 today by this council at the recommendations of some 24 council members, and if they're given their renewal, 25 there should be a clear indicator that the potential 00020 1 of problems exists, given the number of locations 2 where young people, young adults can go -- of age, of 3 course -- that could be amplified significantly in 4 this next summer. 5 So the commitments by the counselor that 6 efforts will be made by the owner to deal with those 7 problems as patrons exit is a good step in the right 8 direction, but from my experience and those in my own 9 district and nearby, I will just suggest to the owner 10 that those problems could become even more severe in 11 the future, so you should be mindful of that. 12 PRESIDENT PRATT: Thank you, alderman. 13 Alderman Don Richards. 14 ALDERMAN RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. I just have a question of information. 16 Does the church receive payment or rent for the space 17 that it allows the tavern to use? Can someone answer 18 that? 19 PRESIDENT PRATT: No, they don't. 20 ALDERMAN RICHARDS: Thank you. 21 PRESIDENT PRATT: There's two other lights 22 on. Alderman Bob Donovan and Alderman Willie Hines. 23 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: Thank you, Mr. President. 24 Quite frankly, I'm a little surprised that there seems 25 to be movement towards taking away the suspension. I 00021 1 watched the proceedings, as well, and I was appalled 2 at some of the behavior going on there, and if this 3 council doesn't have an obligation to the residents 4 who live near there, I don't know where our obligation 5 lies. I saw people coming forward with good testimony 6 about what they had to put up with, I saw the 7 videotape of what they had to put up with, and if I 8 had to live there or if any of us had to live there, I 9 guarantee you there would be a suspension. 10 Because the police don't have any formal 11 report is not uncommon. I've gone in front of the 12 committee with complaints about taverns in my 13 district, and you wouldn't even think the police 14 existed in the City of Milwaukee because there was no 15 report. People coming forward with testimony, written 16 documents that they've called the police, and the 17 police don't have anything to show for it. I don't 18 know why that's the case, but it's not uncommon. 19 So I think a message needs to be sent, not 20 only for this establishment but for other 21 establishments throughout the city, that steps need to 22 be taken to restore some order to our neighborhoods. 23 My heart goes out to the poor folks that have to live 24 next to this kind of thing. Thank you. 25 PRESIDENT PRATT: Thank you, Alderman. 00022 1 Alderman Willie Hines, then Alderman Fred Gordon. 2 ALDERMAN HINES: Thank you, Mr. President. 3 Let me first say that I did watch the proceedings, as 4 well. I was somewhat surprised that there was a 5 10-day suspension levied when the bulk of the problems 6 that came from this location was centered around 7 obviously patrons when they leave, and we do not want 8 to minimize that, but let's -- and I don't think Mr. 9 Reid has minimized it, and it appears that he is 10 taking appropriate steps to try to deal with that 11 issue by increasing the security as indicated by his 12 attorney and making the announcement at the close of 13 the establishment. 14 I don't know any situation, any location, 15 any activity, any event that occurs that when it 16 closes that there isn't some challenges in dispersing 17 the crowd. That goes on at Summerfest, I think even 18 in these meetings, the church parking lot that he 19 rents on Sundays, one of the neighbors indicated that 20 there's problems at the church even when they 21 disperse, and I can identify a list of other locations 22 that when they close, you can be rest assured there's 23 going to be some challenges in that area, not so much 24 that it's driven by the owner, but just when you have 25 that many vehicles in certain locations in given 00023 1 moments at a given time that it creates some 2 challenges. 3 This gentleman has had his license nine 4 years. He doesn't recall ever having received a 5 police objection, and he's had it when Chief Arreola 6 was chief, who also objected at those points in time. 7 There was nothing. Chief Jones, who does not give 8 objections nor does he give approval 9 or recommendations, he gives data and information. 10 There was no data or information forthcoming even at 11 this particular point in time. 12 And so I think it would be very disingenuous 13 of this body to say that we would not want to live -- 14 the next door neighbors where there was problems that 15 the neighbors had that the attorney identified that 16 the closest person that spoke in opposition lived 17 1/3rd of a mile away, and so I think we ought to be 18 fair. I think Mr. Reid clearly recognizes that he has 19 some serious issues and must deal with those 20 situations, and his track record reflects his 21 abilities to be able to put challenging issues behind 22 him. He's been in business and has not had any 23 incidents, and he has clearly stepped up to the plate. 24 He has a meeting April 19th and July 12th. I mean, if 25 that's not the epitome of trying to do what it takes 00024 1 to be responsible, I don't know what is. 2 So I think he gets the message, and I would 3 hope this body recognizes that and be mindful. He 4 looks like a businessman that wants to be around, 5 based upon his actions, it looks like he wants to be 6 responsible, and we'll give him another opportunity on 7 issue of citation or issue a suspension. Police is on 8 notice. Just because you call them, it may not 9 necessarily merit the issuance of citations or other 10 things. They will get calls, I'm certain that they 11 will, but more importantly, Mr. Reid will seek to work 12 with the residents, which is what he has sought to do 13 and has done over the years past, and if there's one 14 thing you can judge a book by its cover or if you can 15 judge an individual, you can judge them based upon 16 their history, and his history is clean. So I would 17 want to give him the benefit of the doubt. 18 If he has some problems in his history, that 19 would speak volumes about a man, but he's clearly 20 carried his business very respectfully, and we must 21 respect and honor that, as well. So I would ask that 22 we not issue a 10-day suspension but give Mr. Reid an 23 opportunity to do what he has done best over the last 24 nine years, which is run an excellent establishment in 25 collaboration and cooperation with the business 00025 1 owners, the church next door that doesn't charge him 2 anything, and his residents. Thank you. 3 PRESIDENT PRATT: Thank you. Alderman Fred 4 Gordon. 5 ALDERMAN GORDON: Thank you, Mr. President. 6 I was the maker of the motion at the committee level 7 for renewal of this license with a 10-day suspension, 8 and as Alderman Donovan indicated, a message was sent 9 at that point in time. I've been on this committee 10 now for approximately 11 years, and I think that I've 11 seen every possible activity that can take place at a 12 licensed premise in the City of Milwaukee or heard 13 testimony thereof, and to the extent that a message 14 was sent, I think that Mr. Reid got the message. 15 And certainly as a business person, he has 16 done a fine job at that location. It's one of the 17 more popular adult establishments in the City of 18 Milwaukee. I frequented the establishment myself, 19 I've enjoyed myself there, I've eaten well. They 20 serve good chicken wings, and that's my favorite food, 21 as most people know. 22 So certainly I want to send a message on 23 behalf of the residents who testified at the hearing, 24 and the residents of that area who belong to Lincoln 25 Park Community Association have been steadfast in 00026 1 their concerns regarding the emerging popularity of 2 this establishment in their neighborhood, and let's 3 face it, now that the meetings have been established, 4 they've been established because the message was sent 5 by the committee, and when licenses come before the 6 Utilities & Licenses Committee, particularly if there 7 are neighborhood objections, I've always maintained -- 8 and I've stated it on the record -- that if you're 9 going to come before the committee and you know that 10 there's problems with your establishment from the 11 residents who live in or around the particular 12 establishment, you should seek and bring counsel to 13 the hearing. 14 A lot of this could have been avoided 15 perhaps if Ms. Hughes had been retained to represent 16 Mr. Reid at the committee level and had brought people 17 in from the neighborhood who supported Mr. Reid. And 18 clearly spring and summer are just about here, and to 19 the extent that we're going to have situations where 20 overcrowding and the automobiles going back and forth 21 on busy thoroughfares throughout the City of 22 Milwaukee, that's going to happen. In my experience 23 on this committee, when videotape is shown and 24 behavior of individuals and patrons at these 25 establishments are clear, you don't need any other 00027 1 police reports. 2 And another comment on the police report 3 situation. It appears that the Milwaukee Police 4 Department has not been able to have the kind of data 5 and the kind of information for the Utilities & 6 Licenses Committee members to peruse and to comment on 7 as they have in the past, and that was commented on at 8 this particular hearing. For citizens to bring the 9 reports from the Milwaukee Police Department to a 10 hearing and present the Milwaukee Police Department 11 with copies of those reports when the Milwaukee Police 12 Department had no information to give to the committee 13 speaks poorly of the kind of representation that we're 14 getting from the department, and I think that that's 15 something that we have to as a council and certainty 16 as the Utilities & Licenses Committee have to impart 17 to the chief because we're getting no information 18 about what's going on in these establishments, and 19 citizens are actually doing the job of the Milwaukee 20 Police Department in terms of recording these 21 situations as they occur and bringing that information 22 to the committee. That's the department's job. And 23 the department's falling short on that situation, and 24 I think that we have got to address it as a council. 25 But certainly we look at these cases as we 00028 1 always do on a case-by-case basis, and when residents 2 come before the Utilities & Licenses Committee, 3 they're going to be heard, and their testimony is 4 going to be taken seriously. There is going to be 5 great weight given to the residents who have to live 6 near these establishments. And I said it before, 7 running a bar in the City of Milwaukee is not the way 8 it was 10 years ago, it's not the way it was 20 years 9 ago. We have more people going to the establishments, 10 we have a younger crowd going to these establishments, 11 and it becomes extremely difficult to disperse these 12 people at 2:00 in the morning. That's when people 13 really get their groove on, they get their drink on, 14 and they're ready to go and continue on into the early 15 morning hours of the night. 16 And to the extent that this establishment, 17 which again, is one of the better establishments in 18 the City of Milwaukee, the weight is going to have to 19 be felt on Mr. Reid and his business partners to make 20 sure that they co-exist in an environment that is 21 completely different from what it was 20 years ago. 22 And in that sense, I think the message has been 23 conveyed; I think the move toward working with the 24 residents and having quarterly meetings is a good step 25 forward, but there will need to be more of those 00029 1 meetings. I think there needs to be constant 2 vigilance on the part of the management of this 3 establishment and other establishments to be able to 4 mollify, at least, the concerns that residents have. 5 Because if you go to the residents and explain to them 6 what's going on, by and large they don't want to run 7 you out of business but they want to be able to sleep 8 at night, and that's really the bottom line here. If 9 residents are going to have to put up with hundreds of 10 people coming into their neighborhood, they want to be 11 able to see some order, they want to be able to at 12 least co-exist within the confines of that situation. 13 So I think the message has been sent, and 14 I'm satisfied that Mr. Reid is making subsequent steps 15 to go forward with working with the Lincoln Park 16 Community Association and the residents in the 17 neighborhood, so I'm going to support the motion for 18 renewal without a 10-day suspension. 19 PRESIDENT PRATT: Alderman Sanchez. 20 ALDERMAN SANCHEZ: Thank you, Mr. President. 21 We all know that regardless of the business, people 22 deserve a good night's rest, we all know that people 23 have families that they want to raise, and we all know 24 that no matter what we see here, there's always a 25 potential that there's a little bit more that exists. 00030 1 One thought comes to mind -- just a thought -- of 2 three separate incidents in which the roads were 3 closed, a location in my district, they were 4 completely blocked off. So I'm listening to my police 5 scanner, and I drive over to see what's going on. 6 There's someone laying in the road, their head's 7 bleeding, and I walk up to the police car, I said we 8 need to have a PA-33 written up for this. Three 9 separate times last year, and not a single PA-33 10 written up. It makes it so difficult, so difficult to 11 bring in a licensee of that establishment. 12 It's not something new. I mean, there's a 13 lot of people who are aware of this situation. But I 14 think the bottom line is this, is that no one wants to 15 live next door to an establishment that has this type 16 of behavior. And I think that if we're going to go 17 through hearings and the Utilities & Licensing 18 Committee is going to make a recommendation and we've 19 read the minutes, we need to respect the work that 20 they do, and I think it's become all too often that 21 people come to the floor here and all of a sudden 22 there's a move to strike the 10-day suspension or the 23 revocation. It just becomes a real soap opera. So I 24 think we need to move forward with the recommendation 25 of the Utilities & Licenses Committee. Thanks. 00031 1 PRESIDENT PRATT: Alderman Murphy. 2 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. I just want to add my two cents on the 4 issue of the documentation by the police department. 5 I've written a letter to the police chief, I know 6 Alderman Pawlinski, Alderman Bohl have. Quite 7 honestly, I'm at the point I don't even know why we 8 have them at the hearings anymore. I had three 9 contested licenses, the citizens have to do the 10 documentation to bring the reports to the committee 11 hearing. It's a waste of our tax dollars and money to 12 have them sitting there and not doing their jobs. 13 Now, I don't know if that's coming from the 14 top of the organization, but it's not getting done, 15 and it's worthless what they're doing right now. 16 PRESIDENT PRATT: Alderman Henningsen. 17 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: As a rejoinder, I'm 18 sure you will understand I had to ask Barry for this 19 answer, but do you know how many yards there are in a 20 mile? 1,780. The neighbor -- the nearest neighbor 21 was six football fields away. Six football fields 22 away. Give me a break. They must have some other 23 reason for testifying that there are problems. I 24 submit that six football fields is a long way, too 25 long. 00032 1 PRESIDENT PRATT: The motion before us by 2 Alderman Henningsen is to grant the license 3 notwithstanding the recommendation of the Utilities & 4 Licenses Committee. A vote of aye would be a vote in 5 support of Alderman Henningsen's motion, a vote of no 6 would be affirming the Utilities & Licenses' 7 recommendation. 8 Will the City Clerk please call the roll. 9 THE CLERK: Alderman D'Amato. 10 ALDERMAN D'AMATO: Aye. 11 THE CLERK: Alderman Henningsen. 12 ALDERMAN HENNINGSEN: Aye. 13 THE CLERK: Alderman Bohl. 14 ALDERMAN BOHL: No. 15 THE CLERK: Alderman Johnson-Odom. 16 ALDERMAN JOHNSON-ODOM: No. 17 THE CLERK: Alderman Gordon. 18 ALDERMAN GORDON: Aye. 19 THE CLERK: Alderman Donovan. 20 ALDERMAN DONOVAN: No. 21 THE CLERK: Alderman Richards. 22 ALDERMAN RICHARDS: Aye. 23 THE CLERK: Alderman Dudzik. 24 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: No. 25 THE CLERK: Alderman Sanchez. 00033 1 ALDERMAN SANCHEZ: No. 2 THE CLERK: Alderman Pawlinski. 3 ALDERMAN PAWLINSKI: Aye. 4 THE CLERK: Alderman Breier. 5 ALDERMAN BRIER: No. 6 THE CLERK: Alderman Nardelli. 7 ALDERMAN NARDELLI: Aye. 8 THE CLERK: Alderman Murphy. 9 ALDERMAN MURPHY: No. 10 THE CLERK: Alderman Hines. 11 ALDERMAN HINES: Aye. 12 THE CLERK: Mr. President. 13 PRESIDENT PRATT: Aye. 14 THE CLERK: Eight ayes, seven nos. 15 PRESIDENT PRATT: Eight ayes, seven nos. 16 The motion passes. 17 * * * 00034 1 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 2 ) 3 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 4 5 I, TERESE M. SCHIEBENES, of Milwaukee 6 Reporters Associated, Inc., 5120 West Blue Mound Road, 7 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the 8 foregoing proceedings is a full and complete 9 transcript of my stenographic notes taken in the 10 foregoing proceedings. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 TERESE M. SCHIEBENES 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 Dated this day of , 2003. 22 23 24