00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Revocation of the Class "B" Tavern License for the premises at: 6 4001 West Fond du Lac Avenue 7 All Stars Bar and Grill 8 KENT PARKER - Licensee 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman 12 ALD. JOSEPH A. DUDZIK ALD. ROBERT PUENTE 13 ALD. WILLIE WADE 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER 15 HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE POLICE DEPARTMENT by SERGAENT CHESTER ULICKEY 16 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 30th day of October, 2006. 22 23 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: File number 3 060557, a motion relating to the revocation of 4 the Class "B" Tavern license for the premises at 5 4001 West Fond du Lac - - Fond du Lac Avenue 6 known as the All Stars Bar & Grill. 7 Mr. Kent Parker present, as well as the 8 objector? 9 MR. KACHELSKI: Yes, Mr. Parker is 10 present. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Would you 12 please come to the table? Would you all raise 13 your right hands, so we can swear you in, please? 14 (Whereupon those present were sworn.) 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Will the applicant 16 state his name and address for the record, 17 please? 18 THE APPLICANT: Kent Parker, 4001 West 19 Fond du Lac Avenue. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Mr. 21 Parker, do - - do you acknowledge service of 22 today's meeting date and time, and there's a 23 possibility exists that your Class "B" tavern 24 license for All Star and Grill at 4001 West Fond 25 du Lac Avenue might be revoked based on the sworn 00003 1 and written complaint? 2 THE APPLICANT: I understand. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Sergeant Ulickey, 4 the police report, please? 5 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On 7/29 of '06 at 6 2:18 a.m. Milwaukee Police were dispatched to 7 4001 West Fond du Lac Avenue for a shots fired 8 complaint. Investigation revealed a shooting 9 occurred near the front entrance of the above 10 location. The victim identified as Tyrone 11 Robertson suffered a gunshot wound to his left 12 forearm. Further investigation by detectives 13 resulted in numerous recanted and false 14 statements made by the victim and witnesses. As 15 of September 5th, 2006 the case is pending with a 16 D.A. review scheduled for September 15th of 2006. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 18 Sergeant. What - - Do we have any record as to 19 what occurred on September 15th? 20 SERGEANT ULICKEY: There were numerous 21 reviews by the Assistant - - or the Assistant 22 District Attorneys. The Detective that - - the 23 lead Detective in the case is on vacation this 24 week and wasn't available to come in to testify 25 as to that - - that record. There were three 00004 1 suspects that were brought before Assistant 2 District Attorneys. They were two gentlemen by 3 the name of the - - last name of Griffin and Mr. 4 Parker was brought before the District Attorney. 5 The District Attorney in all three cases, or I 6 should say the Assistant District Attorney, 7 decided to not issue charges in this case. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. Thank you. 9 And would you both state your name and address 10 for the record, please? 11 THE WITNESS: My name is Katina 12 Robertson-Johnson. I reside at 3028 North 77th 13 Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 14 THE WITNESS: Tyrone Robertson, 4006 15 North 41st Street. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. And you - - 17 You are the complainant. Is that correct? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am. 19 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf, how 20 should we proceed from here? 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, Mr. Chairman, I 22 believe that Ms. Johnson is your legislative 23 aide. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: That's correct. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: And it is probably 00005 1 appropriate for the Chair at this point to recuse 2 yourself, and then have the Vice-Chair take over. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And I will do that 4 at this time. She is, in fact, my legislative 5 assistant, and I will let Vice-Chair Alderman 6 Bohl take over the committee at this time. 7 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: At - - At 8 this time we're going to hear from the - - the 9 witnesses making a complaint against Mr. Parker. 10 We will provide the applicant and his attorney 11 the - - the ability to raise questions to cross- 12 examine that. We'll provide you ample 13 opportunity to respond to the complaint, and we 14 will then take the matter up with committee. Are 15 there any questions regarding the process? Okay. 16 Ms. Robertson-Johnson? 17 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Vice-Chair, 18 members of the licensing committee. Again, I am 19 Katina. I am the sister, sibling to Tyrone 20 Robertson. And I submitted a letter requesting 21 revocation of 4001 West Fond du Lac Avenue due to 22 disorderly and a non-civil run operation. 23 July 29th, my brother was shot. My 24 brother - - 25 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm going to object. 00006 1 It sounds like she's testifying about hearsay. 2 Unless she's a firsthand witness, perhaps her 3 brother should testify to the facts of the case. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I think that 5 - - that the police report bears out that he was, 6 indeed, shot. If she goes beyond any point now 7 where she's speculates as to who did the shooting 8 without understanding or knowing, I think - - I'm 9 certainly going - - going to put an end to that 10 right there. But just go ahead. 11 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 12 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Be careful 13 not to - - not to cross the line in terms of 14 making analogies of things that you, yourself, 15 are not - - not aware of. 16 THE WITNESS: Will do. And, again, we 17 do have the victim, the actual victim that was 18 shot here, so. On July 29th, 2006 at 19 approximately 02:00 in the morning my brother was 20 shot four times. The clothes that was taken from 21 him had four holes in them. One in the forearm, 22 one in the waist, one that was in the stomach, 23 and the other one in the rear-end as he was 24 running from the scene. That was also 25 conclusively drawn from the evidence that was 00007 1 taken. 2 Two people were arrested that night, 3 which was Ken Griffin and Kennis Griffin - - I'm 4 sorry - - Kevin Griffin and Kennis Griffin. Both 5 of those individuals are individuals that 6 transported him to the hospital. That's why the 7 charges were dismissed, because the wrong 8 individuals were arrested. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm going to object. I 10 can't tell if this is firsthand knowledge or 11 hearsay. It sounds like hearsay. 12 THE WITNESS: Well, I attended - - I 13 was there. 14 THE WITNESS: It's in the police 15 report. 16 THE WITNESS: It's in the police 17 report. And I was there on that Monday, July 18 31st, when it went before the prosecu - - the 19 prosecution. 20 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Your 21 objection is noted, Counsel. We just - - 22 THE WITNESS: Also, those two 23 individuals who were released the following two 24 weeks after the incident in which I submitted a 25 letter to the Chair, as well as all the members 00008 1 of the board, to let them know that an injustice 2 had been done. Originally a revocation was 3 scheduled, but it was - - or postponed because 4 Alderman Willie Wade wasn't aware of what had 5 happened. However, that following weekend he did 6 call me into his office and talked to me about 7 it, and I did indicate to him that my brother was 8 shot and currently in the hospital undergoing 9 surgery. Meanwhile, the shooter was free, and 10 today is still free with getting away with 11 shooting my brother four times. 12 My brother served eight years in 13 prison, and he is used to a street justice. But 14 this is my attempt for him to see that you don't 15 have to operate that way in order to live in the 16 City of Milwaukee. I do know that this City is 17 just running rampant with violent crimes. And in 18 order to stop that you have to remove the people 19 that have the cap - - capability to do things 20 like that. Now listening to the licensing 21 committee I've heard many times, numerous times, 22 different bars that have shootings, and never in 23 one instance have I known for the actual shooter 24 and the victim to be here. Usually the victim is 25 either deceased or - - But in this instance the 00009 1 victim can speak for himself. 2 Alderman Wade, I know that you said to 3 me, or you had your assistant tell me that I can 4 go ahead and go for a revocation, but you 5 wouldn't support it. But I know the right thing 6 to do is what I'm doing now. I'm afraid. I 7 don't know if this individual have a gun or not. 8 I just gave my home address. I know that he has 9 the capacity to shoot somebody. I'm just hoping 10 today that I'm not shot for doing the right 11 thing. Now I'm going to give it to my brother, 12 and he can say whatever he needs to say. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 14 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: One second. 15 Alderman Wade. 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Yeah, I'd like to make 17 some comments since - - 18 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Please. 19 ALDERMAN WADE: I did make the 20 statement that you are well within your right as 21 a citizen of Milwaukee to file for the revocation 22 hearing. 23 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: And I have no objection 25 to that. The original revocation hearing came, 00010 1 and it was put on the calendar. And it's a bar 2 in my district, and I would hope that if there's 3 revocation hearing for any bar in any alderman's 4 district that that alderman would be made aware 5 of it. 6 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 7 ALDERMAN WADE: That was not the case. 8 There were a lot of information that was floating 9 around, both legally and street information, 10 about what happened on that particular day. 11 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 12 ALDERMAN WADE: My grounds for saying 13 that I would not support it was not just that I'm 14 against everything that happened. I want you to 15 have your day in court. 16 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 17 ALDERMAN WADE: To put the facts out 18 there, and I'm sure this body is capable of 19 making their own decision. 20 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: But at - - at that 22 point, I had information that the D.A. didn't 23 charge the individual with - - with the actual, 24 whatever. The D.A. didn't charge him. 25 THE WITNESS: Right. 00011 1 ALDERMAN WADE: So since the D.A. did 2 not charge him, in my estimation, I didn't have 3 any grounds as far as the operation of the bar, 4 complaints about the bar, citizens in the area 5 calling me about the bar. 6 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 7 ALDERMAN WADE: I didn't have any 8 grounds to say that this bar was not a well-ran, 9 well-operated bar. 10 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: Based on the 12 information that had came into my office 13 regarding this bar. The only thing that was in 14 question regarding this bar was that particular 15 incident on July 29th. And because that came 16 back from the D.A., no charges, I didn't feel 17 that it was in - - it was my position to move 18 forward or to support revocating it, because the 19 D.A. didn't find grounds to charge it. Now, a 20 thousand things have gone on in between that 21 time, which I wasn't involved in. That is the 22 reason why I said bring it forward, put the 23 information out, let this body hear it. Maybe 24 something will come to light, but as far as the 25 information that I have presently at this 00012 1 time - - 2 THE WITNESS: Um-hnh. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: - - it doesn't rise to 4 that level for me. 5 THE WITNESS: I understand that, and 6 thank you. On September 21st, 2006 in the 7 afternoon hour, Alderman Wade, you and I went to 8 the corporate dining room, and you shared with me 9 that you had an opportunity to speak with Kent 10 Parker, Kent Parker - - Kent Parker shared with 11 you that he did shoot my brother. He also shared 12 with you that it was alleged that my brother had 13 his "goons" jumping on him, which wasn't the 14 fact, because if he had his goons jumping on him, 15 why did he take four bullets? Why did he - - 16 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I understand 17 - - 18 THE WITNESS: I understand. 19 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: At this 20 point here, the - - the information just provided 21 we are going to have to retract from - - from the 22 record. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. 24 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Because that 25 - - that clearly is hearsay, secondhand, third- 00013 1 hand here, as well, too. Are there questions at 2 this point by committee members of Ms. Robertson- 3 Johnson? Counsel? Mr. Kachelski? 4 MR. KACHELSKI: Yeah, just a few. Ms. 5 Robertson, you - - you drafted a letter to the 6 City Clerk, August 24th, 2006. Right? 7 THE WITNESS: Who are you? 8 MR. KACHELSKI: My name is James 9 Kachelski. I represent Kent Parker. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. 11 MR. KACHELSKI: Did you write a letter? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. It was dated 13 August 2nd, 2006. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm sorry. I have the 15 wrong letter in front of me. August 2nd. And as 16 part of that letter you said there - - there were 17 numerous witnesses; you even named a couple of 18 them. Right? Witnesses to the shooting? Right? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. KACHELSKI: Mrs. T. Right? 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know a Mrs. T. 22 MR. KACHELSKI: It's in your letter 23 that she was a witness to the shooting. 24 THE WITNESS: Her name is Tasha. I 25 don't know Mrs. T. 00014 1 MR. KACHELSKI: Is it in your letter 2 that she was a witness or is not in your letter 3 that she was a witness? 4 THE WITNESS: It is in my - - It is in 5 my letter. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: All right. And Mr. 7 Whitehead, you said he's a witness. Right? 8 ALDERMAN WADE: Excuse me, Mr. Chair. 9 THE WITNESS: I don't know - - 10 ALDERMAN WADE: Can you talk into the 11 microphone, please? 12 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm sorry. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: Thank you. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: Your letter includes 15 another name, Mr. Whitehead, as a witness to the 16 shooting. Right? 17 THE WITNESS: Moreover, surrounding 18 witnesses and Mr. Whitehead, co-owner of All 19 Stars, witnessed his partner, Mr. Parker, 20 shooting recklessly at Mr. Robertson. That's 21 what the fifth paragraph do state. 22 MR. KACHELSKI: Is that a yes, that you 23 mentioned Mr. Whitehead as a witness to the 24 shooting? 25 THE WITNESS: That's affirmative. 00015 1 MR. KACHELSKI: And then on August 24th 2 there's a letter drafted by the City Clerk - - to 3 - - I'm sorry - - to the City Clerk from City 4 Attorney. Right? 5 THE WITNESS: Let me find the letter, 6 Attorney. Okay. 7 MR. KACHELSKI: And, although it's a 8 three page letter, part of the letter indicates 9 that - - cautions you that you'd need to bring 10 witnesses - - 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 12 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 13 Puente. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Could you let us know 15 where you're at so we can follow you? 16 MR. KACHELSKI: You bet. You bet. I 17 apologize. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I know what letter 19 you're on. I just don't know what page you're 20 on. 21 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm looking at page - - 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Upper left- 23 hand corner? 24 MR. KACHELSKI: - - page three, the 25 last two witness - - the last two sentences. 00016 1 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: It's page 2 nine in our - - 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I got it. I just - - 4 Okay. 5 MR. KACHELSKI: And the last two 6 sentences are, "Finally, we caution that almost 7 certainly all of Ms. Robertson-Johnson's 8 testimony will be hearsay. The actual witnesses 9 mentioned in her letter will be needed to testify 10 in order to establish a case justifying any 11 action." And my question for Ms. Robertson is 12 whether she was aware of those last two sentences 13 as of late August, '06? 14 THE WITNESS: I am aware, and thank you 15 for bringing that to my attention. Mrs. T, which 16 was a friend of my brother's, is not in 17 Milwaukee. Mr. Whitehead is the individual that 18 actually owns All Star Bar. However, the bar is 19 in Mr. Parker's name, because Mr. Whitehot - - 20 head is a convicted felon. So it's put in Mr. 21 Parker's name who is the actual shooter. I don't 22 need any other witnesses. I have a victim here. 23 MR. KACHELSKI: So neither of those 24 witnesses are here on your behalf? 25 THE WITNESS: No, I have the victim. 00017 1 MR. KACHELSKI: Thank you. And were 2 you in the vicinity of - - of the shooting at the 3 time of the shooting? 4 THE WITNESS: After the shooting 5 occurred, I did go. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: How about at the time 7 of the shooting? 8 THE WITNESS: At the time of the 9 shooting, no, I was not there. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: That's all I have. 11 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: At this 12 point we will hear from Mr. Robertson? You've 13 been - - You've been sworn in. Your testimony, 14 sir. 15 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Well, first 16 of all, I feel that we already have a biased vote 17 on the panel, and that's Mr. Wade's vote. 18 MR. KACHELSKI: I can't hear you. 19 THE WITNESS: I feel that we already 20 have a biased vote on the panel, which is Mr. 21 Wade, because of the statements that he made 22 earlier, and it's known that the gentleman, Kent 23 Parker, and Mr. Wade are associates. So I feel 24 that - - 25 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. 00018 1 Roberts - - 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. 4 Robertson, we're going to - - we're going to 5 conduct this hearing at this point, with - - 6 without raising questions. I mean, it - - There 7 is a legal process, and the legal process is if 8 you don't believe that there's a fair hearing, 9 there's a process for dealing with that. I'm not 10 going to - - I - - I - - I appreciate where 11 you're coming from, but I can't let this go out 12 of hand any more. I mean, ultimately, what - - 13 what was stated was already stated. I think that 14 - - that - - that what you're saying is already 15 evident in terms of what has been said. I'm not 16 going to allow four other people to come and 17 repeat that. I'm going to ask for you to provide 18 your testimony as to what happened leading up to 19 the incident that led to this particular 20 revocation hearing. So, if we can just please 21 proceed forward here. 22 THE WITNESS: On July 29th, I was - - 23 Me and a couple other guys and a couple women was 24 out in the parking lot of the All Stars Bar, the 25 hot dog stand, et cetera, et cetera. I had got 00019 1 into a argument with Tasha, the one that's 2 stated, you know, in the complaints, whatever. 3 And that's when Kent came out saying that I have 4 to get out of the parking lot and whatever, and 5 blah, blah, blah, and - - But in - - in a 6 fashion, a very disrespectful fashion, you know. 7 He's - - It was said that I was beating up my 8 girlfriend out there, which I wasn't. And she 9 testified to that, also. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: Objection. 11 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Yeah. 12 MR. KACHELSKI: I don't have any idea 13 what he's talking about. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, he came out 15 and at the time he was telling me, you know, I 16 got to do this or do that. I couldn't - - 17 Couldn't understand what he was saying or 18 whatever, but at that time Lamont Whitehead was 19 telling him go back in the bar. He's not beating 20 on his girlfriend or anything of that nature. 21 And also, Ken also told him that he's not - - I'm 22 not beating up - - I don't beat women, so it got 23 to the point where he got outraged. He said he 24 was going to beat Ken up, beat me up. I mean, it 25 got pretty nasty. It began to turn into 00020 1 something else at that particular time. And now, 2 Ken and Kent is about to fight, because he said 3 that he's going to whoop him and me, and the next 4 time he see us I'm going to have to shoot him and 5 all this kind of - - Umm - - 6 Now, I'm over here dealing with the 7 woman. But it got to a point where I just got 8 tired of him threatening me, saying that he's 9 going to do something to me physically. And the 10 next time he seen me or whatever is - - is this 11 or that and this and that. So we got into a 12 physical altercation, me and Kent. And after the 13 incident was over and group or whoever the group 14 may be separated us or whatever, I heard shots. 15 And I felt something in my gut. And when I 16 looked up, he was, you know, he had maneuvered 17 out of the crowd that was holding him back and 18 was shooting at me. And that's when I ran, took 19 off, and that's when I got shot in the butt, as I 20 ran away from the scene. I don't remember much 21 after that, because I blacked out, passed out 22 down - - down the street, or whatever, so the 23 rest of the night is really - - is all - - is 24 really hazy to me, because I lost a lot of blood 25 at that time. And I learned afterwards, after 00021 1 I - - 2 MR. KACHELSKI: Hearsay. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, I was - - 4 After the incident, he was beaten up in the bar 5 by - - 6 MR. KACHELSKI: Objection. Same 7 objection. 8 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, that's - - 9 that's as far as I know right there. All right. 10 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Thank you. 11 Questions by committee? 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 13 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 14 Puente. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sir, did you give all 16 that statement to the police, what you just gave 17 us? 18 THE WITNESS: I gave them a statement 19 after I was released from the hospital. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And why is that? 21 Were you interviewed prior to being released from 22 the hospital? 23 THE WITNESS: I have some memory of it, 24 and then I don't, because I really can't recall. 25 I was pretty much out of it. 00022 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sergeant Ulickey, did 2 you read the report of this incident, and can you 3 tell me if he was interviewed prior to his 4 release of the hospital? 5 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Yes, he was 6 interviewed, and I would request if you'd like 7 that information, I could read the report or that 8 part of the interview. 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I would, Mr. Chair, 10 to see what he had to say on possible suspect or 11 suspects. 12 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Unless 13 there's an objection from the committee, I - - 14 Sergeant Ulickey. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I would also move 16 that the police report become part of the record 17 once you read it. 18 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Motion by 19 Alderman Puente is that the entire police report 20 be made a part of the permanent record in this 21 matter. Hearing no objections, so ordered. I 22 would also have Alderman Wade, at this point, 23 move that the complaint from Ms. Katina 24 Robertson-Johnson and the - - dated August 2nd, 25 and the letter from the Assistant City Attorney 00023 1 Bruce Schrimpf dated August 24th, 2006 be made a 2 part of our official record in this proceeding. 3 Hearing no objections to that, so ordered. 4 Sergeant, are you ready? 5 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Yes, I am. And for 6 your information, I am reading from Milwaukee 7 Police Department report or a por - - portion 8 thereof. This report was filed by Officer Marlin 9 Davis, and he interviews the victim, Tyrone B. 10 Robertson was brought to the hospital by Kennis 11 Griffin, who was the driver of the gold Lexus 12 four-door vehicle. Tyrone Robertson was admitted 13 to the Emergency Room and treated by Dr. Jodi Lee 14 for a gunshot wound which fractured his left 15 forearm upon penetrating in the skin of the 16 forearm. In an attempt to further investigate 17 this incident, I conducted an interview of Tyrone 18 B. Robertson in the Emergency Room of the 19 hospital. Tyrone B. Robertson stated that he did 20 not wish to make any statement regarding this 21 incident, stating that he had told the officers 22 prior to my arrival what had transpired that left 23 him a gunshot victim. Tyrone B. Robertson 24 further stated the only thing he could really 25 tell me is that they were at or near a bar on 00024 1 45th and Lisbon, the Chocolate Rose, and that the 2 incident was an attempted car jacking. Tyrone 3 Robertson relates he does not know who fired any 4 shots at him, and that he does not know why he 5 was fired upon, other than an attempted robbery 6 for Kennis Griffin's vehicle. Tyrone B. 7 Robertson was completely uncooperative with my 8 efforts regarding this investigation, and he 9 related that he did not wish to prosecute the 10 person who shot him in this incident. Tyrone 11 further stated that he was never at All Star 12 Sports at 4001 West Fond du Lac at any time this 13 evening and denies any involvement in the 14 altercation that may have occurred there. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sergeant, do you have 16 the statement from that - - that Mr. Robertson 17 told the officers at the scene what occurred? 18 SERGEANT ULICKEY: If you'll bear with 19 me. There were numerous interviews conducted. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'm assuming that the 21 statement Mr. Robertson gave to these officers 22 were at the scene and prior to transportation 23 from the hospital or was - - 24 SERGEANT ULICKEY: The statement that I 25 just read was - - 00025 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I know. That was 2 Officer Davis. 3 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Right. 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: After he was at - - 5 at the hospital. But in the statement you just 6 read from Officer Davis, he said that Mr. 7 Robertson stated he had already told some other 8 officers what occurred. 9 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Right. 10 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Correct? And that's 11 what I'm looking at - - for. 12 SERGEANT ULICKEY: It appears by this 13 report that the first interview was done at the 14 hospital. The victim, Mr. Robertson, was 15 transported to the hospital by Kennis and Kevin 16 Griffin in the Lexus that was mentioned. So that 17 - - I don't - - 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sergeant, is - - as 19 you referred to Officer Davis, is he a Detective 20 or is he an Officer? 21 THE WITNESS: He's a Detective. 22 SERGEANT ULICKEY: He is - - I'll tell 23 you in just a second, as I'm not personally 24 familiar with him. Detective Marlin Davis, 25 assigned to Criminal Investigation Bureau. 00026 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So it's normal 2 usually that they send a uniform officer first to 3 some of these incidents, and then once the 4 officer gets there and gets a preliminary report, 5 if you will, or does an investigation, they 6 contact their supervisor who then contacts the 7 CIB to see if a detective will come out, and 8 that's probably what occurred here. 9 SERGEANT ULICKEY: That is usually what 10 occurs. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Just so the 12 listening audience understands why we're - - the 13 procedure was done the way it was. You don't 14 know what Mr. Robertson said to the first 15 dispatched squad, that interview? 16 SERGEANT ULICKEY: At this point, I do 17 not. No, I do not. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 19 Chair. 20 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Other 21 questions by committee of Mr. Robertson. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'll - - I'll go on 23 further. Thank you. Mr. Robertson, all this 24 information that you stated was - - You heard 25 what the - - the Sergeant just said. Correct? 00027 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. So this 3 incident was reviewed by an Assistant District 4 Attorney. Is that correct? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, it was. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. And what was 7 the result of that? 8 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure right now. 9 I'm - - I'm not sure. I don't know what they're 10 doing right now. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And you - - There was 12 a statement earlier, I believe by Katrina 13 that - - 14 THE WITNESS: Katrina? 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I'm sorry. I'm 16 sorry. Excuse me. Mrs. Robertson. And you 17 stated that the people who transported you, the 18 Griffins, were arrested. Is that correct? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Do we know why that 21 occurred, Sergeant? Because I don't want you to 22 testify. It would be hearsay, probably, so. 23 SERGEANT ULICKEY: I do have a 24 statement, or I should say, a report filed by an 25 officer, Christopher Shorts, who was dispatched 00028 1 to St. Joseph's Hospital regarding an armed 2 robbery victim. If you'd like, I can read that. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Please. 4 SERGEANT ULICKEY: It might shed a 5 little light on - - on this. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Yes. 7 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On Saturday 7/29 of 8 '06 at approximately 2:50 a.m. Squad 40 late, 9 Shorts and Savoka was - - was at St. Joseph's 10 Hospital, 5000 West Chambers, regarding an armed 11 robbery victim. While present in the ER, three 12 black male subjects entered the ER with one 13 subject sustaining a single gunshot wound to the 14 left forearm. Subject was later identified as 15 Tyrone Robertson. Black male, 2/12/70. The 16 other two subjects were identified as Kevin 17 Griffin, black male, 12/6/70, and Kennis Griffin, 18 black male, 4/7 - - 4/14/76. Squad 40 late along 19 with Squad 286 late, Gil Philip Rodriguez, went 20 to the ER parking lot with both Kennis and Kevin 21 Griffin. Kennis stated that he drove both Kevin 22 and Tyrone to the hospital in his '99 four-door 23 gold Lexus, and it gives all the information 24 regarding that vehicle. Officers observed that 25 there were blood stains in the front passenger 00029 1 seat and middle console area. Squad 40 secured 2 the vehicle until CIB arrival. IPO Shorts 3 initially spoke to Kennis, who stated that around 4 2:30 they were at a stop sign on North 45th at 5 around Lisbon. He stated that they had left the 6 Chocolate Rose Bar. Kennis stated that both of 7 the front vehicle windows were down. Kennis 8 stated that two unknown black male subjects 9 approached the vehicle. One black male actor 10 approached his window armed with a 45 caliber and 11 told him to brake himself. He stated the other 12 subject approached the front passenger window 13 where Tyrone was sitting, also armed with a hand 14 gun, and told him to get the, expletive deleted 15 here, out of the car. Kennis stated that Tyrone 16 struggled with the subject at the passenger door 17 prior to being shot in the forearm. Kennis 18 stated that he also struggle - - struggled with 19 this armed subject at the driver's door. I 20 stated he then drove them - - Or he stated 21 rather, he then drove them to St. Joseph's for 22 medical treatment. 23 They broadcast a brief description, and 24 I'm ad libbing this. Another squad arrived on 25 the scene and informed us that the subjects were 00030 1 involved in a shot - - shots fired incident at 2 4001 West Fond du Lac. Squad 97 late, and 3 another squad, secured and separated both Kennis 4 and Kevin, and Squad 113 late, Detective Marlin 5 Davis also arrived on the scene and continued the 6 investigation. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. Thank 8 you. Sir, who - - The Griffins, how do you - - 9 Are they friends of yours or what's the 10 relationship there? 11 THE WITNESS: It was - - We're 12 associates, yeah. 13 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Associates. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. So these 16 individuals made that statement about the 17 carjacking to these officers. Correct? 18 THE WITNESS: Apparently, so. 19 Apparently, so. Yeah. I was - - 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. I just want to 21 make sure. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Other 23 questions by committee members at this time? 24 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 25 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 00031 1 Wade. 2 ALDERMAN WADE: I don't have a 3 question, but I - - I would like to make a 4 statement, though. Mr. Tyrone said that I was a 5 associate of Mr. Parker's. Just for the record, 6 I have the same relationship with Mr. Parker that 7 I have with all of the other bar owners and 8 business owners in my district. It's not like 9 we're friends and hang out and all of that. But 10 I do have a relationship, because they operate 11 businesses in my district. I just want to make 12 sure that that be made clear. We're not lifelong 13 friends that hang out or anything like that. We 14 have a alderman/business operating in the 15 district relationship. Had he not had a business 16 in my district, I wouldn't know Mr. Parker, and I 17 didn't meet him until after he got a business in 18 my district. 19 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: We're going 20 to leave that right where it's at here. Other 21 questions of Mr. Robertson? Mr. Kachelski? 22 MR. KACHELSKI: Thank you. Mr. 23 Robertson, I'm going to take you back to July 24 29th in the late evening, or the morning of the 25 29th, late evening of the 28th. You were at the 00032 1 All Stars Sports Bar. Right? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: Now, you testified that 4 you were in the parking lot. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: Do you know what time 7 that was? 8 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. It's - - 9 It's in the report, you know. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: I just wondered if you 11 knew. 12 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't. 13 MR. KACHELSKI: You were a customer of 14 the bar prior to being in the parking lot? 15 THE WITNESS: We was in the parking 16 lot. 17 MR. KACHELSKI: Were you in the bar 18 prior to that, that night? 19 THE WITNESS: We was in the parking lot 20 at a hot dog stand buying hot dogs. 21 MR. KACHELSKI: Sure. Were you in the 22 bar prior to being in the parking lot? 23 THE WITNESS: We was in the parking 24 lot. I was there to pick up somebody, and we was 25 in the parking lot at the hot dog stand buying a 00033 1 hot dog. 2 MR. KACHELSKI: Alderman Bohl, can you 3 direct - - 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Yeah. One 5 - - Sir, one moment here. I'm going to take a 6 - - a three minute recess here. Don't anyone 7 leave the room. No one leaves the room. 8 (Recess.) 9 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: We are not 10 going to have any more comments that are going to 11 take swipes at anyone. Anyone across this table. 12 Anyone back and forth. We're going to deal with 13 the facts, and we're going to deal with the facts 14 only. The second thing is if anybody has to 15 raise a question, including counsel, you will 16 direct your question to the Chair at the 17 Committee, and the respondent will respond to it. 18 That is the way we will proceed. Are there any 19 - - Are there any questions or comments relating 20 to that? Counsel, the floor is yours. 21 MR. KACHELSKI: Thank you. Alderman 22 Bohl, I want to direct a question at the witness, 23 whether he was inside the Sports Bar prior to 24 being in the parking lot on the time - - at the 25 time in question. 00034 1 THE WITNESS: I'm not a patron of that 2 bar, sir. Excuse me. I'm not a patron of the 3 bar. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: So the 5 answer is no, you - - 6 THE WITNESS: No. 7 MR. KACHELSKI: Oh, thanks. This - - 8 One second. This woman you were referring to, 9 you used her name as Tasha. Was she in the bar 10 prior to being in the parking lot at the time in 11 question? 12 THE WITNESS: That's who we was waiting 13 on. That's - - We was waiting on Tasha to come 14 out, so we could take her home. So that was, you 15 know. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: Is that a yes? 17 THE WITNESS: I was late. Yes. 18 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I'm assuming 19 that's affirmative. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. I was - - 21 MR. KACHELSKI: Thank you. All right. 22 So this person named Tasha came out and you and 23 she got into an argument. Right? 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 MR. KACHELSKI: And the argument became 00035 1 heated. Right? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: So much so that Mr. 4 Parker came out and said you have to leave. 5 Right? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 MR. KACHELSKI: All right. And you - - 8 Correct me if I'm wrong, your testimony was that 9 it was you and your friends who were - - who were 10 out in the parking lot. Right? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. KACHELSKI: How many friends? 13 THE WITNESS: Three, including the two 14 women that came out of the bar. So that's five. 15 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. And did the 16 argument involve just you and Tasha or were other 17 people also involved in the argument? 18 THE WITNESS: It was just me and Tasha. 19 MR. KACHELSKI: Thank you. Physically, 20 how close were the three male friends to you when 21 you were arguing with Tasha? 22 THE WITNESS: Ten feet. I'm not sure. 23 We was off - - near the alley of the back-end of 24 the bar. So in order for us to even be seen 25 inside the bar you would have to literally come 00036 1 outside the bar to, you know, to observe us 2 having a argument or whatever. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: So that's not near the 4 hot dog stand, right? 5 THE WITNESS: After they came out - - 6 Af - - After the women came out of the bar, no. 7 We moved over to the other side of the bar where 8 the cars were. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: And the hot dog stand 10 isn't open that late anyway, right? 11 THE WITNESS: The hot dog stand was out 12 there. I don't know. I just seen the hot dog 13 stand. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: So you're not aware 15 whether it was open for business or not? 16 THE WITNESS: It was open for business, 17 because I bought a hot dog from the stand at - - 18 in the front of the - - Where the incident took 19 place, where the fight and the shooting took 20 place, that's where the hot dog stand was at that 21 time. 22 MR. KACHELSKI: And how long prior to 23 the incident did you buy a hot dog at this stand? 24 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure, but the 25 incident was after the hot dog incident. The 00037 1 fight that broke out between me and Kent Parker 2 was after the hot dog stand thing, where we 3 standing out there. 4 THE WITNESS: What's the relevance of 5 this hot dog? 6 THE WITNESS: I was wondering - - 7 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I'm the only 8 one holding the gavel. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm - - I'm sorry, 10 Alderman. 11 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I - - I'm 12 beginning to draw the same kind of questions 13 here. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: Let me - - Let me just 15 say, and you can - - 16 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Go ahead. 17 MR. KACHELSKI: I'm trying to establish 18 a timeline here, and the hot dog stand and bar 19 time are two times we can establish, and I'm 20 wondering if - - if he purchased - - He said he 21 purchased the hot dog prior to the argument, I 22 was going to ask whether it was a few minutes 23 prior, a few hours, or - - or something along 24 those lines? 25 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Well, why 00038 1 don't you ask him that question, Mr. Kachelski? 2 This is not a court of law. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: Sure. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: We're not 5 - - We're not establishing the - - the level of 6 findings that you're doing before a Judicial 7 Court. We're dealing with - - with facts in a 8 case, dealing with a complaint for revocation 9 here. So, please, be direct. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: I will. Thank you. 11 Um, you testified that you purchased a hot dog 12 prior to the argument. How long - - How much 13 time had elapsed between the purchase of the hot 14 dog and the beginning of the argument? If you 15 know? 16 THE WITNESS: Well, the hot dog was 17 gone. I - - I don't know. I really couldn't 18 tell you. Sorry. 19 MR. KACHELSKI: Could it have been an 20 hour? 21 THE WITNESS: I - - I don't know. 22 MR. KACHELSKI: Is that a yes? 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 24 MR. KACHELSKI: All right. Could it 25 have been two hours? 00039 1 THE WITNESS: Well, it could have been 2 ten minutes, man. 3 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: You know 4 what? At this point - - At this point he says he 5 doesn't know. I'm going to ask that you move on, 6 counsel, here, or I'm going to cut you off. 7 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. 8 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: You testified that, I 10 think I got the quote exact, "I got tired of him 11 threatening." Did you mean Mr. Parker? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, he threatened my 13 life. He threatened my friends' life, and that's 14 how they started to get into the altercation 15 before, in the beginning. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: And that was after Mr. 17 Parker said that you have to leave the parking 18 lot. Right? 19 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 20 MR. KACHELSKI: And you didn't leave. 21 Right? 22 THE WITNESS: Well, not - - not 23 immediately. Because at that particular time, 24 that's when him and Ken got into it, and they 25 began to - - He - - He said that he was going to 00040 1 beat up Ken now, you know. So that whole - - 2 That whole incident just went totally out of 3 sync, you know. It was just a bad incident. You 4 know, he provoked - - he provoked that incident, 5 and he provoked me to get into a physical 6 altercation with him. And after the altercation, 7 he pulled out the gun and shot several shots. 8 And I have four bullet wounds from that incident. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: Four bullet wounds. 10 Did you hear the - - the police officer reading 11 the - - the police report that said there was a 12 single gunshot wound to the arm? Did you 13 hear - - 14 THE WITNESS: That's - - Yes. That's 15 - - That's - - Yes, I heard that. That's what 16 - - that was the only visible wound that - - It 17 was the only visible wound at that time that the 18 police report was written. And my clothes was 19 taken, because I have - - I have a hole - - The 20 police has my shoes and the shirt that I was 21 wearing, and it has a hole right here. So I 22 don't know if the officer have any pictures of my 23 clothing that the police has downtown or 24 whatever, so. 25 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. Do you know how 00041 1 much time elapsed from the time Mr. Parker asked 2 you to leave the parking lot until the beginning 3 of the physical fight? 4 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. 5 MR. KACHELSKI: Could - - Do you know 6 if it was more than 15 minutes? 7 THE WITNESS: Sir, I didn't have a 8 stopwatch on me at the time. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. 10 THE WITNESS: I normally don't carry a 11 - - a stopwatch. 12 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. You testified 13 that after it was all over you got shot as you 14 ran away. 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: That sound like your 17 testimony? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 MR. KACHELSKI: When you say you ran 20 away, you mean you were running away from the 21 direction where the bullets were coming. Is that 22 right? When you say "ran away," what were you 23 running away from? 24 THE WITNESS: I was running, because I 25 got shot. I was running away from where the 00042 1 bullets was coming from that Kent - - Kent Parker 2 here was - - Your client shot me, Mr. Lawyer. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: Yes. 4 THE WITNESS: All right. And I was 5 running away from that. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: Now, if you were 7 running away, what makes you think Mr. Parker was 8 the shooter? 9 THE WITNESS: Because I looked up and 10 seen it. I felt a gunshot wound, and I looked up 11 to see where the shots was coming from. So I 12 wouldn't run into any more. 13 MR. KACHELSKI: So your testimony is 14 that after you were shot, that's when you looked 15 to see who was shooting. 16 THE WITNESS: Yes, I felt a wound in my 17 stomach, in my gut. That's the only one I felt. 18 I didn't feel my arm shatter. I didn't feel the 19 exit wound or the bullet that lodged into my arm. 20 I didn't feel the other bullet that come through 21 my arm, hit me in the gut. Nor did I feel the 22 bullet that hit me in my butt as I ran. 23 MR. KACHELSKI: Ah - - 24 THE WITNESS: Do I have to answer any 25 more of these questions, sir? 00043 1 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Yeah. 2 MR. KACHELSKI: You testified this 3 morning that there was a crowd around at that 4 time. Right? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: Is that - - That crowd 7 that you refer to, is that more than your five 8 friends that were with you? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: How many people would 11 you say were - - were out there at this time? 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I'll humor 13 - - just humor you and say six or seven, maybe. 14 I don't know. Six or - - 15 MR. KACHELSKI: Six or seven plus your 16 friends, or including your friends? If you know. 17 THE WITNESS: I really don't. I'm just 18 giving you a number. Giving you something, 19 because I really - - I really don't know how many 20 people was out there. There was a lot of people 21 out there, but - - separating us from fighting or 22 whatever, I - - That's hard to tell, also. 23 MR. KACHELSKI: There were people 24 separating the fight? 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. That's how we got 00044 1 separated, and that's when he got hold of a gun, 2 whatever, he pulled it out of his waistband or 3 something like that. I don't know. 4 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. After you were 5 shot, you ended up at St. Joseph's Hospital. 6 Right? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 MR. KACHELSKI: And we heard the 9 statement that you originally made to the 10 Detectives. Right? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. KACHELSKI: Did we hear that this 13 morning? Okay. And then at some point after 14 that you told the - - the version where it was at 15 the Sports Bar, Kent Parker was the shooter. 16 Right? 17 THE WITNESS: I told - - I went down to 18 the police station after I got out of the 19 hospital, and gave my official statement. 20 MR. KACHELSKI: And how long after the 21 statement about being car-jacked, did you tell 22 the statement about being shot at the Sports Bar? 23 How many - - How much time elapsed between those 24 two? 25 THE WITNESS: After I got out of the 00045 1 hospital is when I went down and gave my official 2 statement, signed official statement. 3 MR. KACHELSKI: Do you know how much 4 time elapsed between the two statements? 5 THE WITNESS: A week. 6 MR. KACHELSKI: A week? 7 THE WITNESS: Over a week, yeah. 8 MR. KACHELSKI: More than two weeks? 9 THE WITNESS: Over one week. 10 MR. KACHELSKI: All right. And, Mr. 11 Robertson, do you remember being summoned into 12 the D.A.'s office on 8/25/06? 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: Did you show up? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was there. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: Late in the morning? 17 THE WITNESS: Whatever time I was 18 supposed to have been there I was there, and I 19 spoke with the D.A. at that time. 20 MR. KACHELSKI: D.A. told you that 21 everybody had left already. Right? Because it 22 was scheduled for 8:30. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I - - I 24 got there - - I got there at the time I was 25 supposed to be there, and I spoke with the D.A. 00046 1 MR. KACHELSKI: Do you remember what 2 time you were supposed to be there? 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 MR. KACHELSKI: Do you remember what 5 time you arrived? 6 THE WITNESS: No. 7 MR. KACHELSKI: On 9/19/06, were you 8 summoned into the D.A.'s office? 9 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, one second. 10 Because right now, I don't know what you talking 11 about. I never missed an appointment, if that's 12 what he's insinuating, I never missed an 13 appointment with the D.A. 14 MR. KACHELSKI: Were you there on 9/19? 15 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: How about on 10/5? Did 17 you show up to the D.A.'s office that day? 18 THE WITNESS: Like I said before, I 19 never missed an appointment that was scheduled 20 for - - for me with the D.A. 21 MR. KACHELSKI: How about 10/10/06? 22 THE WITNESS: This is - - 23 MR. KACHELSKI: Okay. 24 THE WITNESS: Can - - Like I said, do I 25 have to answer any more of these questions? 00047 1 MR. KACHELSKI: I don't have any more 2 questions. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 4 MR. KACHELSKI: Oh, I do have - - I'm 5 sorry. I do have one question. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I'm going to 7 recognize Mr. Schrimpf first. 8 MR. KACHELSKI: I apologize. 9 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Robertson. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: I want to clarify a 12 couple things here. First of all, my notes show 13 that counsel asked you a question regarding how 14 many friends - - Oh, I'm sorry. How close three 15 of your friends were - - I'm not sure if that was 16 to you or to the hot dog stand. Do you remember 17 that question? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I remember that 19 question. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. So how far - - 21 First of all, were the friends and you in 22 relation to the hot dog stand, or is it just you 23 and the friends? 24 THE WITNESS: Can you rephrase that? I 25 didn't - - I didn't understand the question 00048 1 exactly. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Was it - - Was - - You 3 remember the question about the three friends and 4 how close they were. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. Was the question 7 how close were the friends to you, or how close 8 were you and the friends to the hot dog stand? 9 THE WITNESS: I didn't understand what 10 his question was. I just knew that the hot dog 11 stand was in the front of the bar. 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Is it attached to the 13 bar? 14 THE WITNESS: No. It was like a truck 15 wagon. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. And me and the 18 female friend, we was arguing at the other end 19 - - of the side of the bar at the end of the 20 parking lot by the alley where the cars was 21 parked. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: So that's several - - I 24 was several feet from the hot dog stand at the 25 time, and I guess my associates was in my 00049 1 vicinity. So I - - I would say that. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And is it a fact, 3 as Sergeant Ulickey read, that when you were 4 interviewed by a Detective at the hospital, you 5 claimed that you were at a bar that was called 6 the Chocolate something, Chocolate Rose, and that 7 you had not been at the All Stars Sports Bar? 8 THE WITNESS: Well, it is - - it is 9 true. Earlier that day we was down in that area, 10 and I'm - - I'm going to be totally honest with 11 you. I - - I can't remember much after being 12 scooped up and being taken to the hospital. It's 13 - - It's hard to - - 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: So are you saying now 15 you don't remember what you told the Detective at 16 the hospital? 17 THE WITNESS: No, I'm - - I'm not 18 saying that. I probably did say that. 19 MR. SCHRIMPF: You probably did say 20 that you were not at the All Stars Sports Bar. 21 Correct? 22 THE WITNESS: I probably - - Yes, sir. 23 I probably did. But I really can't tell you 24 that, you know, any more than that. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: Now I have another 00050 1 question. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: As I understood your 4 testimony, at the time you felt the bullets enter 5 your body, you were running away from the bar. 6 Is that correct? 7 THE WITNESS: No. After we was 8 separated, you know, I figured, well, that's 9 over. And - - 10 MR. SCHRIMPF: And you hadn't been shot 11 at that point. 12 THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't shot at that 13 point. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 15 THE WITNESS: I was shot after the 16 fact. 17 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. And then you were 18 going away? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: You were running away. 21 THE WITNESS: Well, no, not at the 22 time. I didn't run away until I felt the first 23 shot and looked up and seen him shooting at me, 24 and that's when I took off. 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: And that's my question. 00051 1 Under oath, you can say that you saw Mr. Parker 2 shoot you? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes, I - - I witnessed 4 him shoot me. I looked up and looked him in his 5 eye, because - - 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: How far away were you? 7 THE WITNESS: Ten feet at the most. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: And what kind of 9 lighting was there? 10 THE WITNESS: There's a light right - - 11 This incident happened right in front of the bar. 12 It's - - It's pretty well lit up, right on the 13 stairs or right in front. 14 MR. SCHRIMPF: At the time that you saw 15 Mr. Parker with the gun shooting you, how many 16 bullets had entered your body at that point? 17 THE WITNESS: I don't remember. All I 18 just felt one out of - - The worst incident is my 19 left arm. I didn't even feel that. I just felt 20 my gut, and as I was running away, I seen blood 21 flying everywhere. I'm wondering where it's 22 coming from, and I looked down at my arm, and my 23 arm was pretty messed up. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: Did you see anyone else 25 with a gun that night? 00052 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Just Mr. Parker. 3 THE WITNESS: Just Mr. Parker. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 5 Chairman. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair - - 7 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Counsel. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, I'm sorry. 9 MR. KACHELSKI: I just had one last 10 question. Mr. Robertson, have you ever - - ever 11 been convicted of a felony? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I have. 13 MR. KACHELSKI: On how many occasions? 14 THE WITNESS: Twice. 15 MR. KACHELSKI: That's all. 16 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 17 Puente. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. Mr. 19 Robertson, given the statement that you just gave 20 to the Assistant City Attorney, that you saw Mr. 21 Parker shoot you, why did you and the Griffin 22 brothers tell the story of a carjacking and - - 23 and all that other stuff, if, in fact, you did 24 see Mr. Parker shoot you? I - - Why? 25 THE WITNESS: I - - Like I said, 00053 1 Alderman, I gave - - When I got out of the 2 hospital, I did give my official statement to the 3 police, to the Detective downtown. 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Um-hnh. 5 THE WITNESS: At that time, I was half 6 delirious. I blanked out. I - - You know, I 7 don't even remember how I got to where I got, 8 where I ended up being and got picked up and take 9 - - and taken to the hospital. I have no idea 10 where I was. I was - - 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: How was it, though, 12 that the Griffin brothers gave the same story 13 that you gave? 14 THE WITNESS: I guess I was more or 15 less scared, because I never been shot, you know, 16 so. 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: But how did they give 18 the same story, sir, the circumstances you gave, 19 and you're being waited on by hospital personnel. 20 You're not in the same room as the Griffin 21 brothers, and the Griffin brothers gave the same 22 exact story you did. How is that? 23 THE WITNESS: I - - I don't know, sir. 24 And that's part - - That's - - I'm pretty sure 25 that's probably the reason why he's not - - he 00054 1 didn't get convicted for this, but, you know. I 2 mean, still, all in all, he did shoot me after 3 provoking a physical altercation with me. 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. Thank 5 you, Mr. Chair. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Is there - - 7 Is there anyone else who is here to testify as a 8 complainant in this matter? I see no one. 9 Counsel? 10 MR. KACHELSKI: If I could just have 11 five seconds. 12 THE WITNESS: Alderman Bohl, could I 13 have five seconds, too? 14 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I'll 15 actually allow you to have a closing here. 16 MR. KACHELSKI: I just had a five 17 second conference with my client, and he does not 18 wish to present any testimony. 19 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. Mr. 20 Schrimpf? 21 MR. SCHRIMPF: Um-hnh. 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Do we have 23 the ability to ask him questions, notwithstanding 24 that? 25 MR. SCHRIMPF: The reason why your 00055 1 client doesn't want to? 2 MR. KACHELSKI: I'll speak freely. 3 We've been at the D.A.'s office four times. I've 4 spoken with both A.D.A. Hedge and A.D.A. Stengel. 5 Mr. Stengel on 10/5/06 offered me the opinion 6 that he's probably not going to issue any 7 charges, but he wanted to have a final 8 conversation with Detective Chicks. And I don't 9 know if he ever had that conversation with 10 Detective Chicks, but Mr. Stengel told me he 11 would call me when he made - - when - - He would 12 call me if he were going to issue any charges, 13 and he has not called me. And that was going on 14 a month ago. I don't think there's going to be 15 any criminal ramifications for my client. I 16 really don't think there is. But for six years 17 that Statute's still running, and it could be. 18 MR. SCHRIMPF: I see. 19 MR. KACHELSKI: Now, the - - the - - 20 Without going into too much detail, there's 21 enough here to call into question whether this 22 event occurred, where it occurred, whether it was 23 self-defense. Certainly, if this - - If my 24 client testified consistent with a self-defense 25 issue, charges could still be brought. He would 00056 1 have to hire counsel to defend the case, an 2 affirmative defense. Instead of incurring those 3 legal bills, I think the - - the complaining 4 parties haven't established enough to revoke 5 their license. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, it is 7 certainly possible for the committee to ask 8 questions. Basically what counsel is saying is 9 that because of the situation his client is in, 10 he would likely exercise his 5th Amendment 11 freedoms not to answer them, as long as there's a 12 possibility that some of those answers could 13 result in a criminal prosecution and incriminate 14 him. 15 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: All right. 16 At this point I will leave it up to the 17 committee. Are there any questions the committee 18 have of Mr. Parker? 19 MR. KACHELSKI: Depending on the 20 question, we may not be invoking. 21 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I'll ask a 22 couple questions. Mr. Parker, on the night of 23 July 29th did you, indeed, get into a physical al 24 - - altercation with - - with the gentleman 25 seated to your left? 00057 1 THE APPLICANT: No. Not physical. At 2 the time I was already outside when I 3 witnessed - - 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Can you talk into the 5 mic, sir? 6 THE APPLICANT: Excuse me. Yes, sir. 7 Sorry. Yes, I was already outside on my cell 8 phone, out the back door trying to hear my cell 9 phone conversation when I witnessed Mr. 10 Robertson, the other guy, Ken Griffin, and the 11 young lady coming out the front of the bar. As 12 they walked through the parking lot, they were 13 arguing back and forward. And then it got 14 physical between them, and that's when I asked 15 Lamont Whitehead to ask those guys to leave, 16 because he knew who they were, and I didn't know 17 them. But I never said anything to Mr. 18 Robertson. 19 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: So - - So 20 you had - - You're indicating here that you 21 neither got into any argument with him or - - and 22 neither did you get into any physical 23 altercation? 24 MR. KACHELSKI: I think you got to tell 25 the whole story. 00058 1 THE APPLICANT: Okay. At the time when 2 he was into the physical altercation with the 3 young lady, no, I didn't get into a physical 4 confrontation with Mr. Robertson. I hadn't said 5 one word to Mr. Robertson or the other guy that 6 was with him, Kennis Griffin. And there was only 7 two gentlemen, Mr. Robertson and Kennis Griffin 8 and the young lady, who I do not know. 9 And then I called Lamont Whitehead 10 back, because he was standing in front of the 11 bar, and I asked him to ask his friends to leave 12 the parking lot. He said that, "Don't worry 13 about it. It's just his girlfriend, you know. 14 Nothing's going to happen." And then that's when 15 they approached me and told me that, "Hey, this 16 ain't got nothing to do with you." They told me 17 to "Take your," explicit, "back in the bar before 18 we," you know, "kick your," you know, thing like 19 that. And then they threatened to kill me. 20 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Did - - Did 21 that lead to a physical altercation? 22 THE WITNESS: No, that did not lead to 23 a physical altercation. That led to my security 24 coming out the back door and pulling me in to the 25 bar, and - - and then that was it for that 00059 1 period. 2 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Later on, 3 was there a fight, that evening? 4 THE APPLICANT: About - - that incident 5 happened, about - - about an hour - - an hour to 6 an hour maybe fifteen minutes before bar - - bar 7 time closes. After the bar closed, maybe, I'd 8 say, maybe anywhere from 15 minutes to 30 minutes 9 after the bar closed, I stepped outside the bar. 10 Well, I was coming out of the bar, opening up the 11 front door to use my cell phone, again. And 12 that's when Mr. Robertson and the other guy, 13 Kennis Griffin came back at me around from the 14 right side of the bar, and then they had two 15 other gentlemen coming around the left side of 16 the bar. And then that's when they attacked me. 17 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: So it's your 18 testimony that it was not just Mr. Robertson who 19 was fighting you. 20 THE APPLICANT: No, it was - - it was 21 four - - It was four of them, at first. And then 22 I didn't - - I didn't see anything, because I was 23 on the bottom of the pile. And then - - But - - 24 Because they had - - The door swings out, so 25 nobody could open the door to get me back in, 00060 1 because they had me pressed up against the front 2 of the building, blocking the door. And they 3 told me it was another two gentlemen that rolled 4 up, as well. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 7 Puente. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: When you say "rolled 9 up" on you, what - - do you mean two - - 10 THE APPLICANT: I didn't say rolled up 11 on me. They said they rolled up. 12 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, you didn't. 13 Okay. What is - - 14 THE APPLICANT: Not rolled up on me, 15 sir. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, "rolled up." 17 THE APPLICANT: They said, "rolled up," 18 you know, another vehicle, whatever. So it was a 19 total of six gentlemen jumping on me. 20 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 21 THE APPLICANT: I only saw the - - the 22 four. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And how did they - - 24 What did they use to beat you up with? Their 25 fists or feet? 00061 1 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Fists. A couple 2 kicks. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Any weapons? 4 THE APPLICANT: I didn't - - I didn't 5 see any weapons. I heard someone say another one 6 of them had a weapon or whatever. Like I said, I 7 was on the bottom of the pile. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: And how long did this 9 last? 10 THE APPLICANT: I don't know. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Approximately. 30 12 seconds, a minute, two minutes. 13 THE APPLICANT: It wasn't two minutes. 14 By no means it was two minutes. I mean, I'd say 15 anywhere from 30 seconds to maybe a minute. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. What injuries, 17 if any, did you sustain? 18 THE APPLICANT: Just - - Just soreness, 19 the next day. A couple bumps and bruises, things 20 like that. 21 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Did you get any 22 treatment by medical facilities for those 23 injuries? 24 THE APPLICANT: No, I did not. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Did the officers - - 00062 1 Did any officers talk to you that - - that night? 2 THE APPLICANT: You know what? I had 3 gotten a call from a - - a Detective who wanted 4 to re-interview me, because he was saying that 5 whoever showed up that night didn't get all the 6 information that they should have - - had gotten. 7 So, and that's when I contacted the services of 8 Jim Kachelski here. And but that night they said 9 that they would talk to me, but nobody ever did. 10 I mean, at first, the guy on the scene asked a 11 couple questions of everybody that was out there, 12 but he was like a Detective would come and take 13 all of your statements, but that never happened. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Did you bring it to 15 the attention of any law enforcement officer of 16 the beating that you just told us about? 17 THE APPLICANT: No, I did not. I was 18 waiting to give my statement. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: When there was a 20 follow-up call for you to talk to an officer, 21 when was that after the incident that you just 22 described? 23 THE APPLICANT: I don't know. I didn't 24 write down the exact dates or times that they 25 called. 00063 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Was it one day? Two 2 days? A week? A month? 3 THE APPLICANT: I would say - - I'd say 4 it was at least a week. 5 ALDERMAN PUENTE: At least a week. 6 THE APPLICANT: Yes, sir. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. And you were 8 good with not reporting your beating for over a 9 week? 10 THE APPLICANT: Was I good with it? 11 No, sir. I actually wish it had never happened, 12 but because of the threats that were made against 13 me, I feared for my safety, and I kind of just, 14 you know. I don't know. I'm scared. I didn't 15 want to, you know, provoke any - - any other 16 incidents or anything like that. I kind of, you 17 know, I was just scared and I didn't know what to 18 do, so. 19 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Well, if I was 20 fearful of my life, I think I would let somebody 21 know in case something would happen to me. 22 Because at this point nobody knows what had 23 happened to you. Is that correct? 24 THE APPLICANT: That's correct, sir. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00064 1 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 2 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 3 Wade. 4 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Parker, you're 5 saying there were several - - there were at least 6 two altercations. One was a verbal or the 7 gentleman was into a altercation with a young 8 lady that was accompanying him or away from the 9 bar. That was one incident. 10 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 11 ALDERMAN WADE: During that time you 12 instructed one of your employees to tell them to 13 leave your property with - - with the nuisance 14 activity. Is that correct? 15 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 16 ALDERMAN WADE: Between that time and 17 the actual physical confrontation, how much time 18 elapsed? 19 THE APPLICANT: Like I said, it 20 probably was like an hour and 15 minutes to an 21 hour and a half. 22 ALDERMAN WADE: Thank you. 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair, one - - 24 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Go ahead, 25 Alderman. 00065 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: - - question, please. 2 What type of security do you have at your 3 location, besides the security personnel you 4 mentioned? Do you have cameras? 5 THE APPLICANT: No. They're - - 6 They're not working right now, sir. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Were they working at 8 the time of the incident? 9 THE APPLICANT: No, sir. At the time 10 of the incident, no. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: How much time prior 12 to the incident that the cameras stopped working? 13 THE APPLICANT: Sir, I haven't been 14 able to get them working at all. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, so you have them 16 up, and they've never been operable. 17 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 19 Chair. 20 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 21 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 22 Wade. 23 ALDERMAN WADE: Just one more question. 24 At the end of the incident out in the parking 25 lot, you went back into your establishment. 00066 1 Correct? 2 THE APPLICANT: Yes. Yes. 3 ALDERMAN WADE: At that time did you 4 think that the whole incident was over and done, 5 and when you walked out of the front of your bar, 6 did you - - did you anticipate the incident still 7 going on an hour and a half or whatever the 8 elapsed time, or did you think it was over and 9 done? What was your mind state? What did you 10 think about the situation at that point? 11 THE APPLICANT: I thought it was over 12 with, because, I mean, when they approached me, 13 they never got like within, I would say, they 14 never got within, I'd say, six to eight feet of 15 me. They just kind of, you know, Lamont had 16 stood in between them and said, "Hey, this is my 17 cousin. Don't do this kind of thing." And, you 18 know, they just threw those couple things, you 19 know, threatened me and - - and things like that. 20 And once they came, and then, you know, and I 21 went back in the bar, I kind of thought it was 22 over, because, I mean, no - - no punches were 23 thrown. I - - I didn't say anything negative or 24 - - or threatening to those guys, so I just 25 assumed they had their say so, and that was over. 00067 1 So when I walked back out of the bar, I wasn't 2 expecting anything. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 5 Puente. 6 ALDERMAN WADE: I'm done, Mr. Chair. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: That type of incident 8 happens pretty routinely to you? I mean, this 9 isn't an uncommon thing for you in the bar 10 business, that people get in your face, if you 11 will? 12 THE APPLICANT: Sir, it doesn't have 13 anything to do with the bar business, actually. 14 But growing up in the City of Milwaukee, I've had 15 guys say, hey, yeah, you, I'll kick your butt or 16 something like that. And, I mean, nothing ever 17 comes of it. I mean, you know, a lot of times 18 people just talk because they don't want to seem 19 like, you know, they're backing down or backing 20 away or something like that. So at that 21 particular time and because they were friends of 22 Mr. Lamont Whitehead, I - - I thought, you know, 23 it was all squashed and - - and nothing would 24 come of it, you know, because like I said, 25 nothing - - I never said anything to those guys. 00068 1 I never, you know, touched those guys. I never 2 threw a punch. I never threw a threat. I mean, 3 I just went back in the building, you know. I 4 didn't do anything to provoke them. I didn't do 5 anything to make them want to have longlasting 6 feelings towards me, negative feelings towards me 7 or anything. So I don't - - I don't know why 8 they came back, you know. To me, it wasn't 9 serious enough in my eyes. I mean, like I said, 10 I didn't say anything. I didn't touch a hair on 11 either one of their heads. I didn't threaten 12 anyone of them. I didn't say, "Hey, screw you." 13 "Go to hell" or anything. Excuse me. Anything 14 like that. So. 15 ALDERMAN PUENTE: When - - When they 16 did get up close, did you - - do you know if they 17 had been drinking, or did they look like they 18 were impaired in any way? 19 THE APPLICANT: I don't know if they 20 had been drinking. I know that they were in the 21 bar. They had state that they weren't in the 22 bar, but they both were in the bar. What I found 23 later is, is that - - is that - - 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Did you see them in 25 the bar? 00069 1 THE APPLICANT: Yes, I did. 2 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. That's good 3 enough. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Other 5 questions by committee? 6 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair, I have one 7 more question. 8 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 9 Wade. 10 ALDERMAN WADE: You said that you 11 didn't think they would come back. So you - - 12 You think they actually left your establishment 13 and came back later on. Is that what you're 14 trying to imply? 15 THE APPLICANT: I'm not trying - - Like 16 I said, I never saw them actually leave the 17 establishment, you know. But when I came back 18 in, I didn't think anything - - anything else 19 about that particular situation, because like I 20 said, I didn't say anything negative to those 21 guys. I didn't touch those guys at all. So I 22 thought it was over with. I thought, hey, you 23 know - - You know, maybe they did have too much 24 to drink, or yeah, they were drunk or something 25 like that. I mean, you know, in the bar 00070 1 business, you know, guys do get, you know, people 2 do get, you know, overly intoxicated, whatever. 3 Did I witness these guys getting overly 4 intoxicated? No, I did not. I don't know how 5 many drinks they had. I don't know what they 6 were drinking. You know. I just know that they 7 were in the bar, and when I was outside in the 8 back, I saw them coming out with that young lady. 9 If they were super-intoxicated, I have no 10 knowledge of that. 11 But do I - - Do I - - Do I know if they 12 left and came back? No, I don't. All I know is 13 that after that first incident, at least an hour 14 and 15 minutes to an hour and a half had - - had 15 went by, and the bar was closed. You know. We 16 closed the bar. Close at two. We put everybody 17 out at 15 minutes to two. So - - 18 ALDERMAN WADE: So - - So when they 19 came back, most of your customers - - 20 THE APPLICANT: Everyone was gone. 21 ALDERMAN WADE: Everyone was gone. 22 THE APPLICANT: Every customer was 23 gone. 24 ALDERMAN WADE: Out of the bar. 25 THE APPLICANT: Yes, except for people 00071 1 that - - that - - that work there, and people 2 that, you know. You know, it's safety - - it's 3 safety in numbers. So, you know, I have like, 4 you know, friends or whatever that, you know, 5 will make sure that I get out of kind of thing, 6 you know, that - - You know, so nobody, you know, 7 attacks me coming out the back door by myself, 8 thinking I got, you know, loads of money or 9 anything like that. So there were - - Security 10 was there. The bartenders were there, and just a 11 few other people, that, you know, but, you know, 12 we were definitely closed at the time. And - - 13 And all of the paying customers had left, yes. 14 ALDERMAN WADE: Thank you. 15 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Parker, 16 in your job, do you carry a gun at all, or have 17 you carried a gun? 18 MR. KACHELSKI: On behalf of my client, 19 what we've talked about, I'm going to advise him 20 not to answer that, because of possible criminal 21 charges relating to this event. 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: And I'll - - 23 I'll throw it out there, as well, too. And 24 understand it may be leading to - - Mr. Parker, 25 in the course of that evening, did you fire 00072 1 shots? 2 MR. KACHELSKI: I'll offer the same 3 explanation for non - - non-answer. 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I 5 understand. I understand. Okay. Any other 6 questions by committee? Questions of the 7 complainants? 8 THE WITNESS: I would just like to say 9 - - 10 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Now, I just 11 want to say - - I'll give you a closing. This is 12 the opportunity to raise questions from the 13 testimony - - 14 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair. 15 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 16 Wade. 17 ALDERMAN WADE: Just one more question 18 of Tyrone here. Now, he said that you were 19 inside of the bar. You say that you were not 20 inside of the bar. Both of you made that 21 statement under oath. Are you still saying that 22 you were not inside the bar that evening? Is 23 that your statement? Just a simple yes or no. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 ALDERMAN WADE: Okay. 00073 1 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Do you have 2 any questions? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes, and I - - I will be 4 brief, Alderman. Today, again, I don't have any 5 questions for Mr. Parker or for his attorney. It 6 was obvious that his attorney did his best at 7 rattling Tyrone. Tyrone has no reason to lie 8 about being a convicted felon. I did with him 9 today what I do every day. I assist people that 10 don't know the way to go about getting certain 11 resources. I brought him forward. Initially, 12 yeah, the story was all out of control. But I 13 encouraged him to do something and tell the 14 truth, because street justice isn't what 15 Milwaukee is about. 16 It's obvious that Mr. Parker had a 17 fight with my brother. It's obvious that's not 18 disputable at all. But my question - - Or the - 19 - the underlying question is if my brother really 20 did - - Mr. Parker really did have a fight, there 21 were no retaliations. How did my brother get 22 shot? It's obvious that it's been admitted that 23 my brother was on his property. It's obvious 24 that it was admitted that they had a fight. So 25 in the course of being on his property, and 00074 1 having a fight, somehow a little birdie shot him, 2 I guess, by the hot dog stand. I don't know. 3 But I encouraged him to come in today and do the 4 right thing. And the right thing is not street 5 justice, which at this point has gone 6 unaddressed, because District Attorney - - bear 7 with me - - District Attorney Stengel, right, 8 District Attorney Stengel is more angry at my 9 brother and his friends for not being forthcoming 10 initially. I talked to him every day, 11 encouraging him to do the right thing, letting 12 him know what the Wisconsin prison population is. 13 Now he brought forth that my brother 14 does have a felony conviction, and so does a lot 15 of other people in the State of Wisconsin. Well, 16 my brother's doing something different today, and 17 he's coming forward. And I support everything he 18 said today. Because he doesn't - - At no time 19 should somebody pull out a gun that's a bar 20 owner. That's a privilege in this City. It's a 21 privilege, and you're the committee that says 22 okay. We believe you are apt enough to own and 23 operate a bar. And we found this one instance 24 where this individual wasn't. And so I just hope 25 that you all would take this into consideration 00075 1 that we got a victim, and we have the alleged 2 shooter. 3 THE WITNESS: Can I say something? 4 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Briefly. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. As far as the 6 incident of him getting jumped on. I don't know 7 anything about - - Apparently, yes, he did get 8 jumped on, but that was after the fact. I was 9 passed out down in the alley somewhere when this 10 incident happened. But even so, if he did get 11 jumped on by six people, I guess he was mad at me 12 the most, huh. You would think. 13 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: I will - - 14 I'll take that as the closing. 15 THE WITNESS: Rhetorical. 16 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: No. Yeah, I 17 take that as rhetorical, but I'll take that as 18 your closing as opposed to having questions for 19 - - for the applicant of the establishment, so. 20 Mr. Kachelski, I'm going to allow you to provide 21 a brief closing statement at this point. 22 MR. KACHELSKI: I'll try to be brief. 23 We've heard two different versions of what 24 happened that night. One version is Mr. 25 Robertson got into an argument with his girl - - 00076 1 with a female friend. The argument was so heated 2 that an owner of the bar had to tell him to 3 leave. Another version is one of the owners had 4 to tell Mr. Robertson to leave, because he was 5 arguing with this female friend. But then, Mr. 6 Robertson and some friends came back an hour - - 7 hour and 15 minutes later, and - - and by the 8 way, this did happen about quarter after bar 9 time. So that corroborates Mr. Parker's version. 10 But his version is they came back around, and 11 there were six guys jumping on him. 12 Because of potential criminal 13 liability, the - - the very end of the incident 14 wasn't testified to by Mr. Parker. But other 15 than that, Mr. Parker was very forthcoming, 16 matter of fact in his testimony. And contrast 17 that with Mr. Robertson, we had - - we had some 18 points of order where we - - we didn't want to 19 get too contentious, but Mr. Robertson took four 20 questions just to answer whether he was inside 21 the bar, and I - - I think the committee in 22 deciding whose version is more likely to be 23 accurate can take that into consideration. 24 Statutes also allow the committee to take two - - 25 two felony convictions into consideration when 00077 1 deciding on credibility. 2 And one other small part that I want to 3 point out. Mr. Robertson's original testimony 4 was that he was running away as he got shot. But 5 after my question and a couple other questions 6 about seeing the person that shot you, he said, 7 "Well, I wasn't running away until after I got 8 shot," or, "I looked up and then I got shot." "I 9 was trying to run away even though it was all 10 over." That part of his testimony didn't make 11 sense. Either he was running away, which - - in 12 which case he couldn't have told - - told who was 13 the shooter. Or he wasn't running away yet, in 14 which case - - in which - - why would he say he 15 was running away. And if it was over, as he 16 originally testified, why would he be running 17 away. 18 Finally, I'll point out that although 19 this complaint has been pending for a couple 20 months and there was even an opinion by the City 21 Attorney that these - - these numerous witnesses 22 that are - - some of whom are mentioned by name 23 should be summoned, we don't have their version 24 of the events at all. Since the person bringing 25 the complaint has sort of the burden to move 00078 1 forward, I think those missing witnesses should 2 be accounted as further evidence that they 3 haven't proven up what even happened that night. 4 For all those reasons, I ask this committee to 5 dismiss the complaint against the bar license. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. At 7 this point we are in committee. 8 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 9 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 10 Puente. 11 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I move to deny the 12 revocation of this - - to deny the revocation 13 request and place on file, based on the testimony 14 that was given before us today. Also, the police 15 report. I know the attorney had mentioned that 16 the D.A. is leaning towards not issuing charges. 17 However, that doesn't preclude us, that if 18 charges are brought against Mr. Parker in the 19 future, to have him before us again and look at 20 revocation. But based on what I heard today and 21 - - I'm moving to deny the revocation. 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. The - 23 - The motion by Alderman Puente is for denial of 24 the - - of the revocation. Mr. Schrimpf, I just 25 want to ask you in terms of the - - the comments 00079 1 relating to double jeopardy here. 2 MR. SCHRIMPF: Double jeopardy, Mr. 3 Chairman, is a criminal concept, not a civil 4 concept. 5 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: So we would 6 still have the ability - - now even though in a 7 matter of due process, can a committee hold a 8 hearing and take into further consideration 9 additional evidence that - - that may come 10 forward? 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: I think it probably 12 could. For example, were the District Attorney 13 to actually come forward and issue charges, and 14 in the event Mr. Parker were convicted of 15 something or plead guilty to something, as a 16 result of this, that would be new and additional 17 evidence that the committee doesn't have right 18 now that the committee could then examine. 19 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank 20 you. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Chairman. 22 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: On the - - 23 On the motion? 24 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: May I ask a 25 question, please? 00080 1 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Certainly. 2 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Is this - - And of 3 the City Attorney. If nothing further is done 4 relative to this hearing, at the time that the 5 license comes up through its normal renewal 6 pattern, will this be admissible as evidence and 7 testimony put on the record for that? 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: I think if nothing else 9 changes, it probably would not be. Because - - 10 useable for a renewal situation. 11 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: There's an 12 incident report. Correct? 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: There's - - 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: That was read 15 today. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: There's - - Yes. There 17 is a police report with an incident report. But 18 were the committee, without additional evidence, 19 to review that at renewal time, and if the 20 committee doesn't take any action at this point 21 in time, and there's no additional evidence, I 22 think you'd have a hard time basing conceivably, 23 for example, a non-renewal or a suspension based 24 on this information. 25 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. But - - But 00081 1 it could be reviewed as - - as part of the 2 totality of the police report. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Sure. And would be. 4 Right. 5 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Are there - 7 - Are there any - - Is there any discussion on 8 the motion at this time? 9 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 10 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 11 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 12 Wade first, then Alderman Dudzik. Alderman Wade. 13 ALDERMAN WADE: On the motion. There 14 has been a lot of information about this case 15 going back and forth from - - from the beginning. 16 It's not - - Even after all of this this morning, 17 we're not clear on what happened, who did what, 18 what time it happened. Was it near the front, 19 the back? How much time elapsed. This whole 20 situation is not conclusive. I would be very 21 interested in hearing this again if the District 22 Attorney came in and found Mr. Parker to be 23 guilty, or if he testified. New information, new 24 set of circumstances may be grounds for different 25 actions. But at this point, I just don't see the 00082 1 evidence in front of me to - - to revoke the 2 license, because it is so inconclusive what has 3 - - or what did take place on that - - on that 4 day. Thank you. So with that being stated, I 5 will be supporting the motion. 6 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Alderman 7 Dudzik. 8 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. Due in 9 large part to the fact that I was outside of the 10 committee room for what I consider a significant 11 portion of this meeting, although that was over 12 an hour and 20 minutes ago, I would ask to be 13 recorded as abstaining in this particular matter. 14 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: The record 15 will - - will note that, Alderman. 16 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: All right. 17 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: Okay. I - - 18 I will just be ever so brief. I - - I do believe 19 that the - - that the evidence, at least that has 20 been presented here today, does not bring itself 21 to a level of a full fledged revocation. My - - 22 My feelings are that I'm - - I guess I'm troubled 23 that - - that the - - the victim of the shooting 24 returned to the scene. I - - I don't know that 25 we are aware of the - - the entire truth. I 00083 1 think we hear one side. We certainly hear 2 another. I - - I will probably go on the basis 3 that there was a shooting that was perpetrated, 4 and that it was certainly the - - the likely 5 shooter was - - was the applicant for this 6 particular establishment. I - - I do believe 7 that - - that that is problematic. Although not 8 having criminal charges, having difficulty to 9 assess that here, I just find it - - While I find 10 it problematic and - - and I believe certainly 11 reason for a suspension at this point given the 12 - - the lack of overall evidence about what 13 transpired, lack of criminal charges, I just 14 don't believe that it rises to the level of 15 revocation. But I will not support the motion 16 for a denial of the revocation, based on the fact 17 that there is no suspension. But that being the 18 case, the motion by Alderman Puente is for a 19 denial of the revocation, and includes a motion 20 to place the - - the complaint on file, and, 21 Madame Clerk, if you could call the roll? 22 CITY CLERK: Alderman Puente? 23 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Aye. 24 CITY CLERK: Alderman Wade? 25 ALDERMAN WADE: Aye. 00084 1 CITY CLERK: Dudzik's sustained. 2 Alderman Bohl? 3 VICE-CHAIR ALDERMAN BOHL: No. And 4 Alderman Witkowiak, also, will be listed as 5 abstaining as well, too. Thank you. 6 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman, just so 7 that everybody understands. I have to give my 8 standard speech at this point, even though the 9 revocation is denied, because of the Statutory 10 requirements. So the committee is going to be 11 doing findings of fact and conclusions of law 12 recommending to the full Common Council denial of 13 the request for revocation. Each of you will 14 receive a copy of that recommendation. Each of 15 you will have an opportunity to submit written 16 objections to that recommendation, or in your 17 case supporting arguments. If you submit such 18 material, it must be submitted by the close of 19 business November 9th, 2006, which is 4:45 p.m. 20 And this will be heard by the Milwaukee Common 21 Council at its regular meeting at nine a.m. on 22 November 14th, 2006 in the Common Council 23 Chambers of this building, the same floor but the 24 opposite end. Okay. 25 * * * * * 00085 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN) 4 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 5 6 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 7 Associated, Inc., do certify that the foregoing 8 transcript was reduced to writing under my direction 9 and that it is a true and accurate transcription of 10 the Licenses Committee Hearing held on October 30, 11 2006. 12 13 14 JEAN M. BARINA - COURT REPORTER 15 Dated this day of November, 2006 16 17