00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the Class "A" Malt 6 renewal application for: 7 AHMAD AHMAD "PICK N CHOOSE" 8 1904 West State Street 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES WITKOWIAK - Chair ALD. JAMES BOHL, JR., - Vice-Chairman 12 ALD. JOSEPH DUDZIK ALD. ROBERT PUENTE 13 ALD. WILLIE WADE 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA BARRON NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES by PANDORA BENDER 15 HEALTH DEPARTMENT by PAUL ZEMKE POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY 16 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 18th day of July, 2006. 22 23 * * * * * 00002 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Also in the 4th 3 District, Ahmad Ahmad, Agent for "Pick N Choose, 4 Inc.", Class "A" Malt renewal application for 5 "Pick N Choose" at 1904 West State Street. 6 MR. AHMAD: Attorney Munjed Ahmad on 7 behalf of Ahmad Ahmad, who also happens to be my 8 father. 9 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Your brother? 10 MR. AHMAD: Father. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Your what? 12 MR. AHMAD: Father. 13 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Oh, father. Okay. 14 MR. AHMAD: Unfortunately, he couldn't 15 be here today due to some health issues, and I 16 apologize for his non-appearance. But I was 17 informed that I could here on his - - in his 18 stead as his counsel as - - as well as his 19 prodigy. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yeah, give us your 21 name and address. 22 MR. AHMAD: Sure. Munjed Ahmad, M-U-N- 23 J-E-D, A-H-M-A-D. My address is 6525 West Blue 24 Mound Road, Milwaukee 53213. I don't know if I 25 should be sworn in or not. 00003 1 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: And do you admit 2 to receiving notice that there's a possibility 3 your application could be denied because of items 4 contained on the police report, and neighborhood 5 objections to loitering, littering, criminal and 6 nuisance activity, drug dealing, prostitution, 7 and that the premises is poorly maintained, and 8 conduct which is detrimental to the health, 9 safety and welfare of the neighborhood. 10 MR. AHMAD: I do acknowledge the 11 receipt of that document. 12 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Health Department? 13 HEALTH: No objection. 14 DNS: No objections. 15 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: No objections from 16 Neighborhood Services. Sergeant Ulickey, the 17 police report, please. 18 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On 12/20 of '05 at 19 4:20 p.m. Milwaukee Police were checking area 20 stores for complaints for selling alcohol. 21 Milwaukee Police aide who was under the age of 21 22 entered the Pick N Choose foods and was able to 23 purchase a four-pack of Seagram's Strawberry 24 Daiquiri without being asked for proper ID. The 25 clerk was identified, and she was issued a 00004 1 citation for sale of underage. She was found 2 guilty and fined 100 dollars. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Do you have any 4 questions about that? 5 MR. AHMAD: I do, actually. On that 6 same occasion - - As this committee knows, 7 typically what happens is the agent is given the 8 citation as well as the - - the cashier. In this 9 case that wasn't what happened. And the reason 10 it wasn't what happened was because the actual 11 manager was actually next to the cashier at the 12 time that she was doing this sale, asked the 13 cashier specifically, "Did you ask for ID?" And 14 her response to that was "Yes, and I've asked for 15 ID from this person in the past." And I don't 16 know if that's reflected in the report, but the 17 - - the police aide, I believe, at the time did 18 acknowledge that that was the case, in fact. And 19 that's why I believe that - - that the only 20 person that was issued the citation was the - - 21 was the cashier. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Well, I - - I just 23 think you need to know that that's all rank 24 hearsay, obviously. 25 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Yes. Okay. Can I 00005 1 see a show of hands? Is there anyone here in the 2 audience to testify to 1904 West State Street? 3 Could you come forth, please, and give us your 4 testimony? Please raise - - raise your right 5 hand. We'll swear you in. 6 (Whereupon the witness was sworn.) 7 THE WITNESS: Right. I do. 8 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Pull the 9 microphone towards you. Name and address for the 10 record. 11 THE WITNESS: My name is Rosanne 12 Mathias, M-A-T-H-I-A-S. I live at 1138 North 13 21st Street, which is right around the corner. 14 It's between Highland and Juneau from Pick N 15 Choose. 16 All I'm asking is that there's more 17 control on the outside of the building. Because 18 people do gather on the outside of the building. 19 I don't know if there's a limit with people 20 coming into the store. There might be. 21 The other thing to talk about here is 22 I've lived at 1138 North 21st Street since 1969. 23 And so we've seen a lot of changes on State 24 Street. There's an awful lot of private 25 investment on the street, and if the owner could 00006 1 just make an effort to make the building more 2 attractive, it would help out. 3 I don't know if other people have 4 stores in their neighborhood that look like Pick 5 N Choose. There's no windows. There are no 6 signs in front anymore, but - - And I don't know 7 how this gentleman or the committee feel. I know 8 it's going to be said that because of the 9 neighborhood that the building has to look like 10 it does. You know, you can't have any windows. 11 It has to be totally secure. If the owner could 12 do anything. I mean, I'm not certain that grates 13 closed at night and then opened during the day 14 with big windows aren't a better choice. 15 I don't feel a need to be as secure as 16 the owner does, in my home. I've raised three 17 children on 21st Street, and now I have five 18 grandchildren living on 21st Street. And we 19 obviously don't have the element of fear that 20 store owners have in our neighborhood. So any 21 kind of effort that any neighbor, store neighbor 22 can make in our area would very much be 23 appreciated. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Ahmad, I have 25 a question for you. Do you own the building or 00007 1 does your father? 2 MR. AHMAD: Actually, my - - my cousin 3 owns the building, which we do not own the 4 building. I have been - - It's funny she should 5 mention the windows, because we just got an 6 estimate for 17,500 and some change to actually 7 put windows on the building. We're actually 8 trying to work with the Milwaukee Economic 9 Development Committee to - - to ease - - soften 10 some of the blow of the 17 plus thousand. That's 11 just for the windows. There are other 12 improvement issues that we have actually begun to 13 undertake in terms of remodeling the inside of 14 the building. But, no, we don't own - - 15 specifically, we don't own the building. It is 16 in the family and - - and it won't matter. The 17 landlord, again, is my cousin, so he's not being 18 asked to pay for any of this work. We're going 19 to take care of it on our own. 20 But I - - I would like to note that - - 21 that her comments were - - were something that 22 we've been already thinking about prior to 23 today's meeting, and that's why we already - - 24 Unfortunately, I didn't bring the estimate with 25 me, but we already do have the idea for the 00008 1 front. I would note that the siding on the 2 building is brand new. It's - - It's not - - 3 It's not siding that's, you know, 15 or 20 years 4 old or anything of that nature. The siding is 5 relatively new. We're actually going to cut into 6 that siding and put some larger windows. The 7 idea behind that is aesthetic, as well as so that 8 what's inside and outside is more visible to - - 9 to us and to the others. And, God forbid, if we 10 are robbed, we would hope that a neighbor would 11 - - would notice that and - - and call the 12 police. But - - Neighbors like Ms. Mathias. So 13 - - So we are actually considering everything 14 that she's already brought up. We've already 15 actually thought of that ahead of today's 16 meeting. 17 THE WITNESS: I would - - I would 18 suggest that you get a security system for your 19 building. 20 MR. AHMAD: There is one. 21 THE WITNESS: Because it is needed. 22 And I also want to remind the committee about the 23 tremendous private investment that so many 24 homeowners have made in this neighborhood to 25 improve this neighborhood. And while I welcome 00009 1 any kind of public assistance to these store 2 owners, I want you - - to remind you that 3 homeowners most often have a stake in the 4 neighborhood and in their own homes. Thank you. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Ma'am, you mentioned 8 that there are people who are out in front of the 9 store. Is this during business hours? 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. I mean, it's 11 general loitering, but - - 12 MR. SCHRIMPF: Are these - - 13 THE WITNESS: - - there is loitering on 14 that side of the street, because of other store 15 owners, too. And so it's like a travel. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: What do you observe 17 these people, who are outside, and you described 18 loitering, what do you observe them doing? 19 THE WITNESS: Well, when I go shopping, 20 you know, I mean, you go shopping and you go 21 home. I mean, our neighborhood is different for 22 a lot of people. But it's just sort of general 23 hanging out. It's the hanging out, like that 24 goes on at Badger Distributing. I mean, it's a 25 general hanging out in the neighborhood. 00010 1 MR. SCHRIMPF: Do you see them, for 2 example, drinking anything from brown paper bags? 3 THE WITNESS: Not at Pick N Choose. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: But it's certainly at 6 other stores, you know, in this same area. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: Do you observe them 8 making phone calls? 9 THE WITNESS: You mean, cell phone 10 calls? 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Well, cell phone calls 12 or - - 13 THE WITNESS: Is there even - - Is 14 there a pay phone there anymore? 15 MR. AHMAD: Yes, there is. There are 16 pay phones. 17 THE WITNESS: There are - - There is a 18 pay phone, yeah. I mean, in my neighborhood it 19 has to be balanced, you know, the amount of pay 20 phones, with the amount of people that don't have 21 phones. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: When you see this 23 activity, and perhaps I asked you this, is it 24 during regular business hours or is it at night? 25 Is it early in the day? 00011 1 THE WITNESS: No, it's - - It's all day 2 long. I mean, it's in the morning, in the 3 afternoon, in the evening. 4 MR. SCHRIMPF: How many people? 5 THE WITNESS: Again, it's like groups. 6 Three is a group, five. I know people that shop 7 there. 8 MR. SCHRIMPF: Have you - - Have you 9 ever walked past these groups of people? 10 THE WITNESS: Oh, sure. 11 MR. SCHRIMPF: Have you - - 12 THE WITNESS: It's my neighborhood. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: Have you been harassed? 14 THE WITNESS: No. I mean - - No. No, 15 that - - Not harassed. 16 MR. SCHRIMPF: Okay. All right. 17 That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is there anyone 19 else in the audience here to testify relative to 20 1904 West State Street? Let the record show no 21 one else acknowledges. Alderman Bauman. 22 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 I do have personal knowledge of this 24 establishment by reason of the fact that I have 25 been passing by it along State Street for the 00012 1 better part of ten years, certainly the last 2 eight years when I've lived in the neighborhood. 3 And I have to beg to differ with a few of the 4 facts that Ms. Mathias has set forth. There are 5 no other stores in this particular area. Badger 6 Distributing is a liquor wholesaler. It does not 7 do retail trade. There is no loitering in front 8 of Badger Distributing. Since they are a 9 wholesale establishment, regular people, ordinary 10 people cannot go in and buy liquor there. Only 11 individuals that have a Wisconsin State Selling 12 Permit can buy liquor there. They're a wholesale 13 seller. There are no other stores anywhere 14 within, I'd say, four to five blocks, maybe six 15 blocks of this location. 16 This has - - This is a location of 17 constant loitering. There is never a time that I 18 go by that there is not loitering in front of 19 this store. It is such a severe problem that a 20 homeowner on the corner of 19th and State, an 21 individual some years ago, his name was Tim Peno. 22 He purchased a very nice but very dilapidated 23 home that had been a rooming house, absentee 24 owned rooming house for many, many years. It was 25 a blight in the neighborhood. This young 00013 1 individual bought this very nice historic cream 2 city brick home, and undertook to start 3 renovating it. He invested a great deal of money 4 in this store, and finally gave up, moved away, 5 and it's now back in an absentee owner's hands 6 solely, solely because of the activity that goes 7 on at this store. 8 So we lose owner occupants. We lose 9 people who invest in these communities because of 10 these stores that take no pride in their 11 appearance, that take no care in how the stores 12 are operated or how they function, and they live 13 in the suburbs. I notice the owner's address is 14 in Oak Creek. So we have - - We are chasing, 15 literally chasing residents, owners out of our 16 neighborhoods, because we continue to allow these 17 stores to purvey liquor and do not hold them 18 accountable for the - - for the activities that 19 go on around them. 20 I hear about store renovations. First 21 time I ever heard this. Talking - - Talking to 22 the City for a facade grant. First I ever heard 23 of this. It's interesting how licensees come to 24 this committee, and all of a sudden there's a 25 huge renovation budget, and all of a sudden we're 00014 1 going to be painting, and fixing up, and 2 repairing this, and cracking down on that and 3 instituting security measures. When it's solely 4 for the benefit of this committee. They all go 5 back and it's business as usual until next year, 6 and hopefully we'll get some underage citation or 7 some other issue that can allow this matter to 8 come back before the committee. 9 So there needs to be punishment here 10 and in the case of all of these establishments. 11 They're - - They're draining wealth from our 12 community. And what's worse, they're chasing 13 investment from our community, because these 14 stores are like cancers, both in its appearance 15 and its operation. The - - It is a blank front 16 wall painted an odd assortment of colors, may 17 have new siding on it, but that's blank siding 18 with a chain link gate front doorway. That's the 19 store. It is a blight. It is an eyesore, and it 20 is nothing but loitering, and constant loitering. 21 There is never a time that I go by that I do not 22 see this taking place, at all times of day and 23 night. Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, 25 Alderman Bauman. 00015 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: I have - - One 3 second, Alderman Puente. I just - - I have a 4 technical question before we move on to Alderman 5 Puente's question. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sure. 7 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Is that a wood 8 frame building or a brick building? 9 MR. AHMAD: I - - I believe it's a wood 10 frame building. I'm not entirely sure. Like I 11 said, the siding has been on for, you know, a few 12 years. So I - - I'm not sure what's underneath 13 the siding, to be - - to be honest. I can tell 14 you the siding is only one color. It's not an 15 assortment of colors. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente? 17 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Alderman Bauman, are 18 you aware of more incidents than what we have 19 before us on the police report? All I see is 20 one. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: No, I'm not. 22 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sergeant, is - - is 23 this the only one? 24 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Yes. That I 25 conveyed, yes. 00016 1 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. And how 2 long has your father operated this? 3 MR. AHMAD: This particular store, 4 about ten - 15 years. I'm not sure exactly. But 5 ten - 15 years. 6 ALDERMAN PUENTE: So we have one 7 incident in ten or 15 years? 8 MR. AHMAD: I don't know about ten 9 years ago or eight years ago, but I can tell you 10 that this is the first time I've been before the 11 committee, at least since - - And I - - It may go 12 further back than this, Alderman. I just don't 13 know - - I don't want to misstate anything here 14 today. So I can tell you that since at least 15 2000, 2002, there hasn't been any. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Sergeant, if we had 17 priors besides this one, it would be reflected 18 here. Correct? 19 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Yes. 20 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Mr. Schrimpf. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Just to follow on the 23 point raised by Alderman Puente. The usual 24 warning, this is an underage service, and you 25 need two in a year from the date of the first. 00017 1 You have one. 2 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. Any 3 other questions by members of the committee? 4 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. One more 5 if I may follow up. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: The clerk, Pamela 8 Moore, what happened with her after this incident 9 that's on the police report? 10 MR. AHMAD: She was - - We did discuss 11 it with her. I - - She's not there anymore. We 12 did actually hire brand new personnel in that 13 place. I guess I'd like to just - - With respect 14 to Alderman Bauman, I'd like to reject the - - 15 the notion that we are somehow redoing things 16 just for the interest of - - of the committee. I 17 reject that, and I would say that my dad's been 18 in business, in multiple businesses for over 30 19 years, and has had very little, if any, problems, 20 whatsoever, in - - in this over 30 years that 21 he's been operating his businesses. 22 He has a - - a wholesale - - a 23 wholesale business on 26th and Lisbon. We've 24 been on that block on Lisbon since I was in 25 diapers, which is quite a ways ago, and have had 00018 1 very little, if any, problems in the past, 2 including this location that we're - - we're 3 talking about today. 4 This new personnel consists not only of 5 - - of your run of the mill clerks. It also 6 consists of a former police officer, and he was 7 brought in specifically for security issues on 8 the interior and out, exterior. And his duties - 9 - One of his duties are to "patrol" the outside 10 to make sure that there are no issues with 11 loitering or drug activity or things of that 12 nature, as well as - - as well as to make sure 13 there's no litter, obviously. He is not someone 14 who I - - When I say former police officer, he's 15 a relatively young man who - - who is in a 16 position to really make sure that there is no 17 problems in - - inside or outside of the - - of 18 the building. 19 I would also like to say that the issue 20 of the window, I - - I can tell you, I did - - I 21 don't know if I - - I wasn't sworn in, but I will 22 swear myself in to tell you the issue of the 23 windows has been discussed before this letter 24 even came out. I wasn't even - - not aware of 25 this letter until yesterday when I - - And that's 00019 1 when I started trying to call Alderman - - Well, 2 I tried to call Alderman Hines, because for some 3 reason I was confused, and thought that Alderman 4 Hines was the - - was the alderman here. But it 5 wasn't until yesterday I contacted Alderman 6 Bauman's office, because I didn't realize - - I 7 had no clue about this until yesterday. So - - 8 So I would note that with respect to Alderman 9 Bauman, I reject the notion that he - - that 10 we're trying to put a facade for - - for the 11 committee. It's - - This couldn't' be further 12 from the case. The remodeling, it's - - it's 13 something that we - - It's been near and dear to 14 us. We've - - We've been in constant 15 conversation regarding that. Whether we get an 16 MADC approved loan or not, it's going to happen. 17 We won't be here next year, but if we were here 18 next year - - I hope we're not going to be here 19 next year. But if we are here next year, you'll 20 - - you'll find that Alderman Bauman will be able 21 to tell you that the remodeling has been - - has 22 been done. 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: If it's not, do you 24 agree to surrender license? 25 MR. AHMAD: I do. 00020 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: On the record? 2 MR. AHMAD: I do. I have no problem 3 with that. I - - I - - Alderman Bauman wants to 4 make it look like I'm lying or - - or wants to 5 make it look like I'm trying to mislead this 6 committee, and - - and with due respect to 7 Alderman Bauman, that - - that's not the case. I 8 respect Alderman Bauman. I know what he's trying 9 to do for the community and for that, I 10 appreciate that. I am a resident of Milwaukee, 11 and I do appreciate what you're trying to do, 12 Alderman. But to - - to paint me or my father as 13 - - as people that are going to lie to this 14 committee, I - - I take offense to that and - - 15 and I would respectfully request that if we are 16 here next year, that - - that we do address that 17 issue. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Also, what training 19 do you do with the new personnel that have come 20 in to assure that this doesn't happen again? 21 MR. AHMAD: Every - - Every new hire 22 either goes through the bartender license course, 23 or is instructed as to what that course entails. 24 They are instructed about everybody should be 25 ID'd. As indicated, we haven't had really any - 00021 1 - any problems with regards to this in the past. 2 So that training, for the most part, has worked. 3 I know it's hearsay, and I acknowledge that it is 4 hearsay. But the truth of the matter is that 5 clerk was specifically told to ask for ID that 6 same occasion at that time. And the fact that 7 she rejected to do that or neglected to do that, 8 it is a responsibility that we're - - we're 9 taking here today, and I accept responsibility 10 for that. But we have been training our 11 employees in a relatively - - well-fashioned, and 12 I - - I suspect that's going to continue if not 13 get better. 14 ALDERMAN PUENTE: All right. Thank 15 you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bauman, 17 anything to say in closing? 18 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: I testified to what 19 I've seen with my own eyes. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you. 21 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: And I pass this 22 location at least twice a day. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Before we put this 24 matter in committee, I just have a couple 25 comments. 00022 1 When you - - I'm - - I'm pleased to 2 hear that you're going to do something about the 3 appearance of that building. What I would 4 suggest, before you actually do that, is make 5 sure that you have an architect design the 6 windows. Because that's just why I was asking if 7 it was a - - I figured where this was coming 8 from. If it's a brick building, it's usually 9 predetermined where the windows are supposed to 10 go. But, oftentimes, I see on these wood frame 11 buildings, when somebody says they're going to 12 put windows in, they put windows in out of scale. 13 Usually they're like too small. So then they'll 14 say, well, I said I was going to put windows in, 15 you know, and they put three little windows in 16 like this along the whole side of the building. 17 So make sure that you have an architect look at 18 it and say that these windows are the correct 19 scale for a building this size. The point I'm 20 trying to make is - - is so you're going to do 21 improvements. You're going to spend some money 22 on the place. Make sure that you do it right. 23 MR. AHMAD: Absolutely. 24 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: So that it is less 25 visual pollution for the neighborhood. 00023 1 MR. AHMAD: I agree. 2 ALDERMAN WADE: Mr. Chair. 3 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Wade. 4 ALDERMAN WADE: I'd like to ask 5 questions about the loitering issue. 6 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Go ahead. 7 ALDERMAN WADE: Because that seems to 8 be a big issue. Your - - Your family, they are 9 aware of the loitering? 10 MR. AHMAD: We have - - We have 11 employees that - - that generally are supposed to 12 go outside and make sure there - - there is no 13 loitering. And we - - we have been trying to 14 institute that. I understand there are more 15 problems. This is, again, the first time we've 16 been before the committee in many, many, many 17 years. We are installing, along with the 18 windows, some security cameras on the exterior of 19 the building in hopes that that will help, 20 particularly at night, with the loitering after 21 we're closed, but also, during the day. So we 22 are aware of it, and we will make sure that the 23 loitering ceases. 24 People passing, of course, back and 25 forth, that's a different issue. But to stand 00024 1 around and - - and in front of the store and - - 2 and loiter is - - is an issue that we are going 3 to take seriously. Again, I don't want to sound 4 like a broken record, but been in business for 5 over 30 years. This has never really been an 6 issue, because we are cognizant of that - - that 7 that is - - it's out there, and we have tried in 8 the past to make sure it's not an issue. 9 ALDERMAN WADE: Well, I just - - I just 10 wanted you to acknowledge that the loitering does 11 occur, and that you are aware of it, and that 12 it's an issue that your family will be 13 addressing, along with the aesthetic situation. 14 The loitering thing can bring different elements 15 to a neighborhood that are neg - - that are 16 negative and negatively impact the neighborhood. 17 So, I would just encourage you to - - to look 18 into that, and take that serious, and try to 19 abate that between. And it will be better for 20 your business, too, to be honest. 21 MR. AHMAD: Absolutely. People don't 22 want to come into a store when there's people 23 just hanging around, and - - and that - - I agree 24 with you 100 percent. That's part of the reason 25 why we hired this former officer, to - - And I 00025 1 - - And I use the word, patrol, loosely, but 2 patrol the - - the outside of the - - of the 3 establishment, as well as the inside. 4 ALDERMAN WADE: I just wanted to say 5 that looking at the - - the police record that's 6 in front of us, you know, we don't - - we don't 7 really have a whole lot to go on, but I'm glad to 8 hear that you are being proactive about some of 9 the things that were mentioned by the constituent 10 and by the representative of the area. 11 MR. AHMAD: Absolutely. The - - These 12 areas are - - are near and dear to our hearts, 13 despite where we live. We do take an interest in 14 the communities where we are. 15 ALDERMAN WADE: Thank you. 16 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Puente. 18 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I might add, I would 19 suggest that you put up "No Loitering" signs up. 20 That would help the police to enforce that then. 21 You, an attorney, can - - can look up the City 22 ordinance and see exactly - - 23 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: They have - - They 24 have "No Loitering" signs. 25 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Oh, they do. 00026 1 ALDERMAN BAUMAN: They do no good, 2 obviously. 3 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Well, do you call the 4 police? 5 MR. AHMAD: I - - To be honest with 6 you, I'm not there, Alderman. 7 ALDERMAN PUENTE: Okay. 8 MR. AHMAD: To be honest. I can't - - 9 ALDERMAN PUENTE: I would suggest that 10 your father, or whoever is bartending or managing 11 those facilities, if you do have the signs, 12 that's a great tool for the police department. 13 There's no ifs, ands or buts, as - - as long as 14 they do their jobs, too. They have to cite these 15 individuals. They can't tell them just to move 16 on. They have to ticket them. 17 MR. AHMAD: Absolutely. I - - I 18 wholeheartedly agree. 19 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: Mr. Chairman. 20 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Dudzik. 21 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I feel compelled to 22 enter into this conversation. 23 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Have at it. 24 ALDERMAN PUENTE: The only one who 25 hasn't is Jim. 00027 1 ALDERMAN DUDZIK: I would suggest 2 removing the pay phone. It's - -It's a magnet 3 for loitering. It's a magnet for other 4 activities that are undesirable in this 5 neighborhood. I have to agree with Alderman 6 Bauman, to some extent. Whether it's this 7 location - - You - - You claim the family's been 8 in the business for 30 years. At this location 9 for over ten, I believe you said. It - - Rather 10 than seeing these businesses are run all over the 11 city, primarily in the inner city, but all over 12 the city - - Rather than seeing these businesses 13 be dragged, kicking and screaming to improve 14 their aesthetics, given the money that is made 15 off of these businesses, I would wish - - I would 16 pray - - I would work towards getting these 17 businesses in line, become the spearheads for 18 revitalizing communities. Again, whether it's in 19 the inner city or - - or in my own Aldermanic 20 District, I - - I really can't emphasize enough 21 to the business owners when they come in front of 22 me here or when - - when I stop by their 23 businesses, how much I'm really do appreciate, 24 and I really insist that their businesses look as 25 good as they possibly can. I walk in frequently 00028 1 to my businesses and say, you know, you got too 2 many signs out there, what have you. And - - And 3 for a family to stay at one location for, you 4 know, ten years or more and, you know, have the 5 concerns that Alderman Bauman is speaking of, I 6 think lends a great deal of weight to his 7 argument about this particular location. And 8 unfortunately the police report doesn't allow us 9 to do anything more than probably approve this 10 license. That's my own comment. 11 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: This matter is in 12 committee. 13 ALDERMAN BOHL: Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: Alderman Bohl. 15 ALDERMAN BOHL: I would move for 16 renewal of the license with the issuance of a 17 warning letter. And I would just remark that I'm 18 certain that Alderman Bauman will be getting a 19 copy of the transcripts of this, as well, too. 20 So, Mr. Ahmad, I would make certain that these 21 so-called up - - upgrades to the facility are 22 done earlier in the season and not two or three 23 weeks before your renewal next year. 24 MR. AHMAD: We'd like to get it done 25 prior to the end of the summer, if we can, so - - 00029 1 ALDERMAN BOHL: In addition to doing 2 whatever you can to ensure that - - that there is 3 not the repeat problem with loitering in the 4 area. Because I think you were probably in the 5 room with one of the previous applicants, who the 6 Chairman had indicated, would be one of the most 7 watched facilities in - - in the 12th Alderman 8 District. And I can probably assure you this 9 will be one of the most watched in the 4th. 10 MR. AHMAD: I - - I appreciate that, 11 and like I said, I welcome Alderman Bauman's 12 input. And I - - Despite what was said here 13 today, I would hope that we could work together 14 and - - and even if he just wants to give us 15 ideas, I - - I would welcome that. He's welcome 16 to come at any time to do that, and I would 17 welcome the chance to meet with him regarding it. 18 CHAIRMAN WITKOWIAK: The motion by 19 Alderman Bohl is to recommend approval with the 20 issuance of a - - of a warning letter based on 21 neighborhood objections. Are there any 22 objections to that motion? Hearing none, so 23 ordered. 24 MR. AHMAD: Thank you. 25 * * * * * 00030 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings was transcribed under my direction for the 11 license of Pick N Choose, that came before the 12 Licenses Committee. 13 14 15 16 17 18 JEAN M. BARINA 19 Court Reporter 20 21 22 Dated this day of June, 2007. 23