00001 1 2 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 3 LICENSES COMMITTEE 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 5 In the Matter of the renewal application for 6 Public Dance Hall for "Sugar" 7 MICHAEL GROSSE, Agent "20 Below, LLC" 8 d/b/a "Sugar" 126 East Mineral Street 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 COMMITTEE MEMBERS 11 ALD. JAMES BOHL - Chair 12 ALD. MILELE COGGS, Vice Chair ALD. ASHANTI HAMILTON 13 ALD. T. ANTHONY ZIELINSKI ALD. NIK KOVAC 14 LICENSING DIVISION by REBECCA GRILL 15 POLICE DEPARTMENT by SEARGENT CHET ULICKEY OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY by ATTORNEY BRUCE SCHRIMPF 16 17 18 Proceedings had and testimony given in 19 the above-entitled matter, before the LICENSES 20 COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE, on 21 the 28th day of May, 2008. 22 23 * * * * * 00002 1 P R O C E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have Michael Grosse, 3 Agent for "20 Below, LLC", Public Dance Hall 4 renewal application for "Sugar" at 126 East 5 Mineral Street. 6 MR. MAISTELMAN: Good morning, Mr. 7 Chairman, or good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, 8 members of the committee. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: It's morning somewhere 10 in this world here, isn't it? 11 MR. MAISTELMAN: Yes, it is. 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I think probably 13 Honolulu right now. 14 MR. MAISTELMAN: Unfortunately, we're 15 not there. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We have quite a few 17 individuals here. Which of you is Mr. Grosse? 18 THE APPLICANT: I'm Mr. Grosse. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We will, for all of you 20 here - - Captain Negron, you've already been 21 sworn in. We don't need to swear you in as - - 22 as has - - as has Alderman Witkowiak. Everyone 23 else who hasn't been sworn in if you could please 24 raise your right hand, unless you are acting in 25 the form of an attorney. 00003 1 (Whereupon the Court Reporters 2 switched.) 3 CHAIRMAN BOHL: We'll swear each of you 4 in who have not been sworn in who are not 5 attorneys present. 6 (Whereupon those present were sworn.) 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And for the agent here, 8 I will need name and address for the record. 9 THE APPLICANT: Michael Grosse. Last 10 name spelled G-R-O-S-S-E. Address is 2003 South 11 West Grand Lane, 53219, and that's in West 12 Milwaukee, I'm sorry. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. And I will 14 ask you if you acknowledge receiving notice of 15 today's meeting with a possibility that your 16 application could be denied. It is cited for 17 items contained in the police report, as well as 18 a number of neighborhood objections. 19 MR. MAISTELMAN: We acknowledge that. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. I'm going 21 to assume we have, because it is a renewal and no 22 holds. Sergeant, if you could provide the police 23 report, please. 24 SERGEANT ULICKEY: On 3/28 of '08 at 25 10:50 p.m. Milwaukee Police were flagged down for 00004 1 trouble with a subject complaint at 126 East 2 Mineral Street. Police spoke to the security 3 guard, Michael Schrank, who advised police that a 4 male subject told Schrank that he had sexually 5 assaulted approximately 15 females inside and 6 outside of the Sugar. Officers observed the 7 subject who fled from police. After a brief foot 8 pursuit officers caught and placed the subject 9 into custody. A female juvenile came forth and 10 provided officers information regarding the 11 assault that took place inside Sugar. The case 12 is currently pending in Circuit Court. 13 While inside the hall officers observed 14 no license displayed and spoke to Sean Pliss 15 regarding the display of license. Pliss stated 16 the plaque that contained the license fell from 17 the wall, and that he would fix the problem so 18 the license would not - - or so the license was 19 properly displayed. A citation was issued for 20 certificate to be posted, and the citation was 21 not found in Municipal Court system. 22 On 4/18 of '08 at 10:15 p.m. Milwaukee 23 police were sent to monitor the crowd at 126 East 24 Mineral, Club Sugar. As police arrived, officers 25 were flagged down by the bouncer/security guard, 00005 1 Dale Deer, who stated, "These kids are out of 2 control. We are full to capacity. They won't 3 leave. Get them out of here." Officers observed 4 at least 100 people standing in front of the 5 building and several others walking up and down 6 the streets. Police also observed autos to be 7 double-parked, as well as people in passing autos 8 opening doors and yelling to the crowd inside of 9 Sugar. A total of seven squads and a supervisor 10 were needed to gain control and disperse the 11 crowd. Police also issued numerous parking 12 citations for violations that were observed. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Any questions or 14 comments that you have of the police report at 15 this time? 16 MR. MAISTELMAN: Just, I have some 17 opening statements to make that will incorporate 18 and discuss some of those. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Why - - I'll just hold 20 on one second if you have no specific comments, 21 if you're going to incorporate them. And just 22 ask if there are questions by committee, based on 23 the police report? 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. 25 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Kovac. 00006 1 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Officers were sent. 2 Was it in response to a phone call from a 3 neighbor, from the club? Do you know what caused 4 the officers on April 18th? 5 SERGEANT ULICKEY: That information I 6 do not have. 7 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Okay. 8 SERGEANT ULICKEY: They were sent by 9 some means. That - - Which means they were 10 dispatched by radio. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 12 committee? All right. Mr. Maistelman, you are 13 representing the applicant here? 14 MR. MAISTELMAN: 20 Below, LLC, yeah. 15 I guess I should make a record. Attorney Michael 16 Maistelman and Attorney David Halbrooks on behalf 17 of 20 Below, LLC, d/b/a Sugar. 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Could you also - - Are 19 you also representatives here from the - - 20 MR. PLISS: Yes, I'm one of the owners. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Could we just you, for 22 the record, your name and address here, as well? 23 MR. PLISS: Sure. First name is Sean, 24 S-E-A-N. Last name is Pliss, P-L-I-S-S. South 25 74 West 13122 Courtland Lane, Muskego. 00007 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, sir? You can 2 twist that around. 3 MR. ACOSTA: My name is Joshua Acosta. 4 last name A-C-O-S-T-A. Address 5026 West Euclid 5 Ave., 53219. 6 THE APPLICANT: 20 Below. It's 20 7 Below, LLC. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Maistelman, please. 9 MR. MAISTELMAN: Mr. Chairman, thank 10 you. Other than the two incidents that Sergeant 11 Ulickey just stated, and which were - - our 12 clients had - - had been the ones, I believe, 13 that requested the assistance of the police, 14 there haven't been any other problems at the 15 club. They haven't been cited for any other 16 problems. 17 Now you're going to hear testimony that 18 there have been problems in the neighborhood that 19 may or may not have been caused by those people. 20 But as far as the club is concerned, we've never 21 had any weapons. There hasn't been anybody cited 22 for underage drinking. We haven't been cited for 23 any over occupancy. Nothing else. Nothing else. 24 Last Thursday, I believe, Alderman 25 Witkowiak, the owners, police, and I and about 25 00008 1 neighbors spent almost three hours in a 2 neighborhood meeting that Alderman Witkowiak had 3 called to - - to address these concerns. And 4 when we first went into this meeting, there were 5 quite a number of neighbors that had a lot of 6 issues. We're not the only club in that area. 7 There's also a club called Rave. They're not a 8 teen club. They're an adult club that serves 9 alcohol. At the conclusion of the meeting, there 10 was really one - - only one person that was still 11 not satisfied with the suggestions that we were 12 making. The outcome of that meeting was very, 13 very productive. And, I mean, Alderman Witkowiak 14 will obviously state what he saw. But when I 15 asked to poll everybody, there was only one 16 person that was really still not satisfied with 17 proposals that we were going to take into - - put 18 into place to address these concerns. 19 I'm going to list those really briefly. 20 In our application we allowed 16 year olds in 21 there. Well, that caused some issues because of 22 curfew. Right, we had to get 16 year olds out by 23 midnight. We have now - - And we're going to, I 24 guess, formally amend it with Ms. Grill, but we 25 are now doing away with 16 year olds. So there's 00009 1 no issue of - - of curfew. So 16 year olds are 2 prohibited from coming into our club at all 3 times. 4 Our closing time was at 1:30. We have 5 now voluntarily, given the feedback that we got 6 from the alderman, the police and from the 7 neighbors, we're closing at one o'clock, which 8 gives the kids plenty of time to get out of there 9 before the bars shut down, and to get home. So 10 they're not on the road at the same time as 11 everybody who are in the bars. 12 Now we're only open Fridays and 13 Saturdays currently. I know there - - there was 14 some confusion, because they wanted to try to get 15 Christian music, churches to use their facilities 16 during the week time, and they haven't been 17 successful doing that. 18 We're - - We've increased our outside 19 security up to four additional guards, doing a 20 block - - like a six block radius. We were out 21 there on Friday night. Alderman Witkowiak, 22 Attorney Halbrooks, Attorney Lerner from my 23 office, because we wanted to see what was going 24 on. We had new security people out there, and we 25 could - - we could see them. They're walking in 00010 1 pairs, the whole neighborhood, and they were 2 talking to neighbors. Neighbors that have shown 3 up at the neighborhood meeting who had issues. 4 They were addressing those concerns. And we have 5 somebody from the security firm here to answer 6 any questions that anybody might have. Those 7 security people also will do, you know, pick up 8 trash. I mean, that - - that's important. And 9 we also are going to be working with our cleaning 10 service to address any of the trash needs that - 11 - that come up. 12 Our patrons obviously they're not - - 13 they're not using alcohol in our facility. It's 14 - - It's water and other types of products like 15 that. They're not allowed to leave the facility 16 with Coke cans, bottles, anything like that. We 17 will have - - We're going to keep all that - - 18 all that in. Those are the things that we've 19 implemented since last Friday and Saturday, after 20 the Thursday meeting. 21 What we're currently going to be doing, 22 going forward, is there - - Somebody said there 23 was a problem with graffiti on our building. 24 Well, we've already notified the City about that, 25 and we're dealing with that within 24 hours. If 00011 1 - - If we need to add additional video 2 surveillance outside, we'll put that in. 3 We're going to be purchasing an ID 4 scanner, like some of the other establishments 5 that we represent, so that everybody person that 6 comes through there, we'll have a picture of 7 their ID. So if the police come looking for 8 somebody, so if anybody comes looking, and we're 9 authorized to turn that information over, we'll 10 have it at the - - at the push of a button, and 11 we'll have a list of everybody that has - - has 12 been into our facility. 13 We're going to be purchasing a 14 intoxilizer or a preliminary breath test machine, 15 so that if we have any reason to believe that 16 anybody has come into the club with alcohol on 17 their breath, if, first of all, we can smell it, 18 you know, we can turn them away. We can also 19 make them blow into the device, and they will be 20 excluded and banned from the club forever. And 21 then, of course, we will be posting our rules and 22 policies signage in - - in numerous areas, so 23 that everybody knows. You know, we already have 24 dress codes but - - but regarding, you know, if 25 you come in here with alcohol on your breath, 00012 1 you'll, you know, we'll send you home. We'll 2 confiscate your ID. Whatever we can do within 3 the law. 4 Like I said, I was out there on Friday 5 night. We were touring the facility. It's a - - 6 It's a mixed crowd, from people from different 7 aldermanic districts from around the city. It 8 was really a blend, and it - - it surprised me. 9 Because from what I heard from some of the 10 neighbors, you know, it - - there - - They made 11 it out to be that there was a lot of bad 12 elements, but that's not what I saw on - - on 13 Friday night. 14 We have - - Like I said, we're 15 implementing these policies right now. If, I 16 believe, if we can - - if we can copy what we did 17 on Friday and Saturday night of the past week and 18 implement that on a long term basis, I believe 19 that we will address the concerns that the 20 neighbors and that the police have. One of their 21 concerns is - - is after hours people leave and 22 they - - they go to the Citgo and - - Well, part 23 of our security plan is we're going to have some 24 of the security people to the Citgo to try to 25 disperse the kids from - - from that. 00013 1 We do have a video from Friday night. 2 We did not see anybody. Alderman Witkowiak, I 3 believe, went to bed. We came back to watch the 4 closing of it. And they - - they had it 5 videotaped, and we did not see any problems when 6 the - - when the kids left Friday night. I don't 7 know about Saturday night, but I know Friday 8 night we didn't see any of that. So we have 9 videotapes of - - of what was taking place Friday 10 throughout the evening, and then at closing, and 11 then, some of the area - - some of the other bars 12 in the area. We know we need to be proactive. 13 My client has - - has offered to the neighbors, 14 and to the alderman, and to the police to have 15 monthly meetings to try to - - to address these 16 concerns. They've only been open for one year. 17 You need to give them, you know, I - - we talk 18 about progressive discipline and - - and kind of 19 due process. This is their first crack. 20 They've, you know, they've learned from their 21 mistakes. They've learned from the neighbors, 22 and they're willing to - - And they're - - 23 They've adopted the changes that we've 24 implemented or - - or suggested and the neighbors 25 suggested, and they're moving forward. That 00014 1 being said, I'd like to turn it over to any 2 questions that the members have or - - or to 3 Alderman Witkowiak. 4 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Mr. Chairman. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Zielinski. 6 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I have a question 7 about the mechanics of your electronic card 8 scanner. If an individual is banned from - - 9 from that establishment, do you have the ability 10 to program that individual's information within 11 the scanner, and you'd be able to identify that 12 individual and prevent him from re-entering? 13 MR. MAISTELMAN: I - - I - - 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Can you - - 15 MR. MAISTELMAN: Attorney Halbrooks. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just slide that over. 17 Also, just identify yourself for the record. I 18 know you were pointed out earlier, but just for - 19 - for our tape here, please. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Attorney - - Attorney 21 David Halbrooks. Thank you. 22 Mr. Chair, members. Yes, the - - the 23 idea in this instance is to use the city law that 24 is available to us regarding trespass. So that 25 when the card reader - - when the ID is put in 00015 1 the card reader, it will take a picture of the 2 card - - of the ID card. Now, the individual's 3 that come in aren't necessarily old enough to 4 have State IDs, so they may use their school ID, 5 but the person checking the ID will make sure 6 it's the person. Put it in the machine. A 7 machine will take a picture of that. Now I asked 8 the question about how will they know how to ban 9 - - how the people that are banned. And I got a 10 very interesting answer. And we'll have some - - 11 the documentation for you of the policies that we 12 have ready to show you. But the guards and the 13 owners do know their customers. So I've 14 explained to them under 110-10, the requirement 15 to give either verbal or written notice, and it's 16 the intention to draft a form that they can fill 17 in their name, just like the malls do. So that 18 the person, when they're being excluded from the 19 club, will be given the written notice that they 20 are not welcome to reappear. If they do 21 reappear, then it's a matter of calling the 22 police for trespass. So that the - - the names 23 and the records of the individuals banned, if 24 they're in the club, we will have their picture, 25 their ID, and the information. So it will all be 00016 1 technologically categorized. 2 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Just to get a 3 little bit more clarification on that. Are you 4 telling me that this electronic system itself has 5 the ability to notify you electronically that 6 they've been banned because of a pre-program in 7 the system, or this something that would have to 8 be done manually by cross-referencing those cards 9 with the list of people that have been banned? 10 MR. HALBROOKS: I believe it would be 11 manually. However, I - - I am persuaded from 12 spending an extensive amount of time with the 13 individuals here before you, and you can ask them 14 yourself, that they know who the individuals are. 15 And I will tell you that in my experience when I 16 used to work up the street in prosecution, I was 17 continually amazed at the Mall security guards 18 who knew who they had banned from the premises. 19 So I expect that the process of banning somebody 20 will be something that will leave an impression 21 with the guards and the people at the front door. 22 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: The - - The reason 23 why I ask this question is I've got some 24 establishments in my district that are 25 experiencing some similar problems. And I 00017 1 recommended to them this type of electronic 2 system in terms of a corrective plan of action 3 that they can pursue to prevent or reduce the 4 likelihood of future problems, and I want to get 5 as much information about - - about that - - 6 MR. HALBROOKS: I'll wait for their 7 calls. 8 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: And if you - - 9 Yeah, I - - I figured as much. If you do get 10 more specific information on that, please provide 11 that to me. Thank you very much. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: We will. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Other questions by 14 committee at this time? 15 MR. HALBROOKS: If I may just - - 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. Mr. Halbrooks, 17 please. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: I - - I don't believe 19 the police report indicated there's - - there are 20 several different types of sexual assault that 21 the report doesn't indicate, what the specific 22 charge was, Sergeant, does it? 23 SERGEANT ULICKEY: Not the report - - 24 Excuse me - - Not the report that I read. I can 25 inform you it was a 4th degree sexual assault. 00018 1 MR. HALBROOKS: And that's all I wanted 2 to make sure we got in the record, given that I 3 think it was somewhat provocative, 15 sexual 4 assaults, but we were talking about 4th degree 5 sexual assault. The club did call, and the 6 person is being prosecuted. 7 MR. MAISTELMAN: And we're cooperating 8 with the police. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: All right. Captain, 10 did - - did you have anything more that you 11 wanted to provide here to the committee? 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes, I do. 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please, go ahead. 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I want to start off by 15 saying that this establishment as - - 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Captain, do you just, 17 for the record, again, you want to just identify 18 yourself. 19 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Eduardo Negron, E-D-U- 20 A-R-D-O, N-E-G-R-O-N, Captain, Second District. 21 About a year ago this establishment 22 opens up, and obviously it's been growing in 23 popularity. That's why police are becoming more 24 and more involved. That's simple math. Late 25 autumn is when it first came to my attention, a 00019 1 e-mail was forwarded to me regarding a, I 2 imagine, a juvenile's mom, complaining that 3 younger than 16 year olds were being let in. 4 That was not substantiated. We - - But we did 5 have the complaint come in. We do - - We did do 6 a tavern check on that, or a license premise 7 check on that, and there was some concerns, and 8 my officers and sergeant discussed it with, I 9 believe, it was Sean Pliss, one of the owners, 10 regarding the - - the wristbands and how it was 11 being operated. 12 But since then, it's been a focus of 13 our - - of our district in that it's growing. 14 It's growing with this - - this age group of 15 patrons. It's a large club, 350 capacity. The 16 area itself, you have to take into consideration, 17 why - - why it has become a focus. First I want 18 to state that my - - my main concern with this 19 establishment, the main reason that I would like 20 to see it not get renewed is safety for the 21 patrons. I'm talking these - - these kids. We 22 can debate forever if a 18, or 19, 20 year old 23 are considered kids or not, but I refer to them 24 as young adults, kids. Things that were reported 25 to me forced me to come out on late in the 00020 1 evening on a Friday night. It was still 2 wintertime, observing gals walking - - walking 3 down the street. No coats on. It was freezing. 4 They're going to wait in line. Mini-skirts, very 5 provocative type clothing. Look into a little 6 bit further and we find out that they're hosting 7 nights such as foam party nights. Schoolgirl 8 night. 9 Now this area is bounded on the east by 10 an industrial area. Yes, Club Rain is there. 11 It's another large club, but that's adults. 12 Those are - - That's a liquor establishment. 13 Other than that, it's all industrial with some 14 other bars. Again, all adult entertainment. To 15 the west of it there's some lots, some - - some 16 other businesses, and then residential. To the 17 north of it, now we're talking 1st and National 18 to 2nd and National, again, all adult 19 entertainment, including a gentlemen's club just 20 two blocks away from - - from this establishment. 21 Fancy words for a strip club. That's what - - 22 what we have surrounding this under 20 club. So 23 my first - - my first concern was the safety of 24 these kids that are going to this bar, or this 25 licensed premises dance hall. And secondly, the 00021 1 drain it's causing on manpower for my district. 2 Because I've seen this, now I've had to assign 3 squads to monitor this area, and our calls have 4 - - or self-initiated calls, that is, have gone 5 up. 6 These are CADs year to date for just 7 Fridays and Saturdays. I did a one block search 8 in each direction of 1st and Mineral. A lot of 9 entry to autos, traffic stops, parking troubles, 10 car accidents. The Citgo gas station comes up 11 quite a bit about kids loitering in there. This 12 is all because of the attraction of this club. 13 These are the same one block radius during the 14 week, substantially less, because the club is not 15 open. So it's causing a huge drain on my - - on 16 my resources. I can't guarantee that we're going 17 to be out there, or any part of the district for 18 that matter. But there is a concern here. 19 I did attend this meeting with the 20 owners and their attorney and the alderman last 21 week. New reports came in to me which were even 22 more disturbing, such as maybe there's no alcohol 23 being served inside the establishment. But one 24 of the business owners nearby off Barclay had to 25 have bushes cut down because he knew they were 00022 1 frequenting back there. He found - - He 2 recovered like a bag full of used condoms, 3 bottles of booze. These are not bottles coming 4 out of the other establishments. Those are 5 adults. They can drink in there. These are 6 probably kids, as reported drinking out of their 7 - - out of their cars, out of the trunk. They 8 don't leave, so they can close at 11 o'clock. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I appreciate that, 10 unless - - And - - And I - - And I appreciate it 11 coming from you in terms of you're saying that 12 you were at the meeting where this - - this was 13 being discussed. 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If there are not 16 neighbors present to testify to that, and we will 17 allow that, because we did swear in a few other 18 people. If they are able to swear to items that 19 they've seen, otherwise, what you are stating 20 here right now is classic hearsay. 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Okay. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So please proceed with 23 your - - 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Then I'll - - I'll 25 eliminate all - - all those reported to me at 00023 1 that point. Based on observations, I could 2 easily consume eight to ten squads, two person 3 cars down there every Friday and Saturday night. 4 These - - These youths are not leaving the area. 5 This is a classic beginning of cruising, in which 6 they hang around, wait for their friends, so that 7 we're not going to get rid of the 16 year olds in 8 the area. The club can turn around and wash 9 their hands and say they're not allowed in here 10 anymore. But they're going to be in the area. 11 It's going to cause for continuous problems. The 12 Citgo station is now going to be looked at as a 13 nuisance property, because he - - the owner there 14 has to take - - take some measures to curb the 15 type of clientele or problems from the clientele 16 he's receiving at his Citgo station, because, 17 again, we've - - These are calls that have been 18 made to me, even though I - - it's not - - I'm 19 not quoting any resident, but pot coming from 20 cars and litter being thrown all over the place, 21 things of that nature, drag racing. We also have 22 observed that they have to close the street on 23 Mineral Street to get the traffic out of the way. 24 And I also have video. I didn't bring it with 25 me, only because I think this testimony would 00024 1 suffice, that they had to go and block the 2 entrances to the Citgo by their security. They 3 had to block Mineral Street, and the cars were 4 all double-parked. Again, if there's an 5 emergency, we're not going to get through there. 6 So I don't want to belabor the point, 7 but that - - that's my position. And I'll leave 8 it at that for now. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Captain. 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I - - I also did bring 11 with me, Officer Lazo. I think just stepped out. 12 And she can also add to some of her own personal 13 observations of what - - what has occurred there. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: One - - One more, Mr. 15 Halbrooks here. Captain, just one follow-up 16 question, and from the - - the testimony you've 17 provided and certainly it speaks for itself, and 18 I have no doubt, in terms of the manpower that 19 you're consuming and - - and some of the 20 associated violations that are occurring from 21 what - - what very well - - what very may likely 22 be the patrons of this establishment, is there - 23 - is there a reason or is it just that there's 24 not a direct correlation that despite your coming 25 here with very, very strong objection to the 00025 1 reissuance of this license, that we have only two 2 items in the - - in the tavern - - or the - - 3 only a Class A, for in the police report? 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. My - - My reason 5 is, I think that the location for this 6 establishment is - - is bad. Again, it's 7 surrounded by adult entertainment. Knowing the 8 types of theme nights that they host is going to 9 attract an unwanted element. Again, you got 17 10 year old girls coming to this establishment in 11 bathing suits or in schoolgirl attire. I mean, 12 if they're 18, you can't stop it, of course, you 13 know. I just think that - - My position is, my 14 fear is that at some point we're going to end up 15 having sexual assaults or attempts in that area 16 because of the - - the patrons that are there. 17 Again, because of the age group has a lot to do 18 with it. 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: But - - But I want to 20 - - What I want to get at very clearly is how 21 much of what sounds like your objection, your 22 skirting a line of, boy, I fear there's going to 23 be a lot of concerns with this. There's the 24 potential there, and how much is it based on, we 25 just have had so many real problems that it's 00026 1 draining resources. Is it - - I mean, are you 2 - - It sounds like to me you're saying both. I 3 don't want to put words in your mouth here. 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I think it's fair to 5 say both. My - - My first concern was the 6 safety. But, also, looking at the number of 7 squads I'm deploying down there, I can't keep 8 doing that every weekend. And it's basically 9 because of that establishment on a Friday and 10 Saturday night. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: And, again, if - - if 13 I knew that it took ten minutes for them to get 14 out at one o'clock and they get in their cars and 15 they go home, that wouldn't be too much of a 16 problem. But that's not happening. So it forces 17 us to stay in the area. Again, I don't want a 18 cruising situation. I've dealt with that before 19 in the past in other districts. I certainly 20 don't want to see that happen here. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Thank you, 22 Captain. Questions by committee here. Alderman 23 Kovac? 24 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. 25 Chair. You mentioned it's surrounded by adult 00027 1 entertainment. There is one strip club, you 2 said, a couple blocks away. Excluding that 3 issue, I mean, on a Friday and a Saturday night 4 at midnight, is there anywhere in the city where 5 the only things open are not adult entertainment? 6 Do you understand what I'm saying? 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No, not exactly. 8 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Well, I just mean, 9 where - - where else could they go in the city 10 with something like this where they're trying to 11 keep kids busy that - - that legally can't go to 12 bars, that wouldn't be just near - - The only 13 other open businesses would be bars anywhere they 14 go. 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. I'm not aware. 16 I really am not aware of how many underage bars 17 we have. Again, I'm not opposing the fact that 18 there's an establishment like this. I just think 19 that the geographical location, it's just not 20 suited for it. I just think that it - - it - - 21 The math here is - - is - - is going to be 22 disastrous at some point. Everything else is 23 very adult. It's a very diverse community there. 24 We have LGBT. We have even biker-type bars, if 25 you want to call it that. And a wide variety. 00028 1 And, again, the - - the strip club. So, I think 2 that the - - the contrast here is very evident. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf, let me 5 just see if there are other members of the 6 committee first. Other members of the committee, 7 questions? 8 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: I have a question. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman - - Alderman 10 Hamilton. 11 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Captain, do you 12 think that some of the suggestions that the club 13 owner with their attorneys have been able to come 14 up with will address some of those issues and 15 concerns that you have, that have - - those that 16 have surfaced and those that - - that you believe 17 are - - are yet to surface? 18 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I think the - - the 19 intent is - - is well meant. I think that it, as 20 I told them at the last meeting, I think because 21 you're dealing with this age group that for the 22 most part in my experience you can't tell them 23 anything. All right. I'm sorry to be so - - so 24 blatant about that, but the older someone is, the 25 more consequences they've seen. At that age it's 00029 1 not uncommon that we may go there some night, it 2 had 350 17 year olds. Those are high school 3 seniors in this club. They're not going to 4 listen to their security. They're not going to 5 listen to us. They may say they're going to 6 reject them and send them home. Well, it doesn't 7 mean they're going to send them home. So they 8 may not let them into the club, but the problem 9 is still going to be around. 10 I remember this specifically with Club 11 H2O up on Good Hope. Was that 74th and Good 12 Hope? 13 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Bradley. 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm sorry. Bradley. 15 Where the club would be filled, but people still 16 kept coming. And they just swarmed the - - the 17 neighborhood waiting for let-out time so then it 18 could develop into a full scale cruising 19 operation. And that took us all night to clear 20 up. I see this happening here, or the begin - - 21 the beginning of it, or something similar to 22 that. So that's why I think that to have a ID 23 scanner, I think Alderman Zielinski asked a very 24 pertinent question. How are they going to review 25 it? If this thing is able to tell them this 00030 1 person was banned last week. Don't let him in. 2 That's wonderful. But if they got to go cross- 3 reference, how are they going to - - What - - 4 What do they have as far - - What mechanism do 5 they have in place to be able to do that on the 6 scene on the spot? I mean, if they're going to 7 do it tomorrow, or during the week, well, that's 8 too late. This person got in already. The 9 Breathalyzer, it's a good idea. Unfortunately, 10 you know, it just shows that some of these 11 reports are true, that people are coming in after 12 having been drinking, whether it's in their car, 13 or at someone's house, or - - 14 So I think that the - - that the 15 measures are - - are well meant. I'm not - - I'm 16 not satisfied that they're going to completely 17 curb the problem. I can't expect them to - - to 18 fix everything. I - - I understand that. I'm 19 looking to - - I'm looking to hopefully reduce 20 potential problems and the manpower that's being 21 - - being drained down there. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I - - I just - - 23 Let me just caution the committee here. I think 24 that this has been very thoroughly explored and 25 responded to. I - - I don't want to beat the 00031 1 horse to death. Alderwoman Coggs? I mean, I - - 2 I don't know how many times he can explain it. I 3 mean, we can ask questions, but I just want to 4 say, I think it's been thoroughly explained 5 and - - 6 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: There were only two 7 questions asked. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: No, I - - I thought he 9 spent like ten minutes. I asked a couple 10 questions. Coggs - - Or Kovac asked a question. 11 You asked a question. I'm just saying, if we're 12 going to keep asking him about the same question, 13 I'm going to ask that we kind of tone it back. 14 Alderwoman Coggs. 15 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Just two quick 16 questions. But first I'll say we must be 17 cautious in painting all young people with one 18 single brush. I'm a young person myself, and - - 19 and not too far in age from some of the young 20 people you're speaking of. When I was that age, 21 I wasn't like you describe me, so. And I know 22 it's a lot of young people who aren't. So I just 23 want to say that. 24 But first - - first question is this. 25 You said on any given Friday or Saturday you 00032 1 could put eight squad cars and all of that. Did 2 you have issues this Friday? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Unfortunately, I - - I 4 wasn't able to supply any squads down there this 5 Friday. So I don't know. 6 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: And I was just 7 asking that just to see, based upon, you know, 8 what was stated about there being nothing happen. 9 Because this - - The picture you're painting is a 10 little different than the picture they painted. 11 So that's why I asked that question. 12 The second question is this. I hear 13 - - I know that you don't want them to get 14 renewed, and I hear what you say about the 15 proposals they have for improvement and what you 16 think about those. But have you been able to 17 share suggestions with them that directly would 18 be able to combat the issues that you have on 19 record and that you've been told about and that 20 you believe may happen in the future? Say, they 21 get the license. What things can they do? Have 22 you had that discussion with them, that could 23 help curb all the issues you say you see or - - 24 or predict? 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. In fact, I'm - - 00033 1 I'm the first one to say that we don't have all 2 the answers for all these problems. These are 3 some - - some hard questions that have to be 4 answered with some - - some of them being - - I'm 5 not sure what can be done. When - - When you 6 have 100, 200 kids, forming a line around the 7 corner of your building, you don't have control 8 of what's happening almost a block away from your 9 establishment. But the calls come in that 10 there's problems, whether it - - it be people 11 loitering the roadway or fights or whatever the 12 case may be. 13 So how do you - - How do you address 14 that? I - - Again, like last Friday, I didn't 15 - - I didn't supply any squads, because we were 16 tied with other things. And that's one of my 17 concerns. I will not always be able to supply 18 squads everywhere at every time, including here. 19 But, yet, it's on my radar. And I want to know 20 that I'm doing everything I can to keep people 21 safe. So I hope that answered your question. 22 MR. SCHRIMPF: Mr. Chairman. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 24 MR. SCHRIMPF: Thank you. Captain, 25 first question. On those occasions when you have 00034 1 dispatched squads, do you have an idea of how 2 long the squads were involved in the hitch? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Well, depending on the 4 amount of people there. There - - It could last 5 anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour, sometimes 6 longer. 7 MR. SCHRIMPF: All right. And what is 8 the mechanism by which you know that the 9 dispatches that you're talking about were for 10 patrons in connection with this establishment? 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: The - - The more 12 evident ones are the ones where we have officers 13 already on scene waiting for the let-out of the 14 crowd. And we see them coming out. I - - I have 15 - - I also want to clarify that out of the calls 16 for service here, it's a block in each direction. 17 Some of these traffic stops may not be related to 18 their patrons. I'm not going to say it's always 19 their patrons. But to try and be - - To try and 20 be fair, I only went one block in each direction, 21 around the time frame that they're open or 22 closing. So what happens at two in the 23 afternoon, there's no way I'm going to tag it 24 onto them. What happens at seven p.m., I'm not 25 going to tag it onto them. That's not when 00035 1 they're up and running. But later around the 2 midnight hour or so, that's when I'm looking at. 3 MR. SCHRIMPF: That's all I have, Mr. 4 Chairman. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. And I have 7 some questions for the Captain, if I may, through 8 the Chair. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. Captain, 11 you indicated at the start of your testimony that 12 you have more and more police officers involved 13 in patrolling this - - or regarding this 14 establishment. Correct? 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It has grown, yes. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have any records 17 for the committee with regard to that amount of 18 service that the - - the police officers have 19 been sent there? 20 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Again, I caution using 21 the word "sent." Some of this is self-initiated. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand, and I - - 23 I want to include the self-initiated. 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Okay. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: But what you indicated 00036 1 was more and more. And I'm interested in that 2 increase of the hours. 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Okay. I don't have 4 that broken down completely. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: So - - 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: These - - These are 7 all CADs indicating squads that are there. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm not talking about 9 CADs. I'm talking about this club in particular. 10 I'm not talking - - I'm - - We'll get to those 11 CADs in a minute. But the - - the - - What you 12 had said at the beginning was this club is 13 causing you to deploy more and more police 14 officer services. 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: And what I want to know 17 is if for the committee to review this and for it 18 to get to the Council and a court to review 19 whether what this Council did was reasonable, I 20 want you to try to explain to - - to us what more 21 and more resources are. How many hours is that? 22 I used to do this work, and I would come prepared 23 to say here's how many hours our police officers 24 had to spend on that. So can you tell us? 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm not going to say 00037 1 at this point. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. You 3 indicated that you got an e-mail. Could I see 4 it, please? 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Why not? 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I don't have it with 8 me. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: So the committee 10 shouldn't really consider - - 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It was anonymous. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: It's anonymous? 13 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It's anonymous. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: You took an 15 anonymous - - 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: We do it all the time, 17 sir, and you should know it. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: And I understand that, 19 and - - and your attorney will tell you that 20 there are certain guidelines legally that you can 21 keep something anonymous, and so, you promised 22 them that was the only way you could get the 23 information, was to promise them that? 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Promise them what? 25 MR. HALBROOKS: They wouldn't - - They 00038 1 wouldn't provide the information unless you 2 promised them anonymity? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm not sure I'm 4 following your question. We - - We receive tips, 5 anonymous tips all the time, and we follow up on 6 them. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand that. Did 8 you promise them anonymity in order for them to 9 give you the tip? 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: So are you now, given 12 that you haven't met the legal prong required for 13 that, are you prepared to turn over the e-mail? 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Sir, I don't have it 15 with me. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: So the committee should 17 not consider that. 18 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's their decision. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. You 20 indicated that you did a tavern check. Right? 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: My officers did, yes. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: And in that, you talked 23 about a wristband. 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Is there anything else 00039 1 from that tavern check that you have to report 2 that came out of that meeting? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm not following you. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Was there - - You - - 5 You indicated the wristband, and I - - 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: - - know about that. 8 And I want to talk about that. But I want to 9 know, was there anything else that came out of 10 that tavern check that we should know about? 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I don't recall at this 12 time. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: What was the - - What 14 was the issue with the wristbands? 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Those were given to 16 the underage people, or curfew violator people. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Violators? 18 CAPTAIN NEGRON: If they - - If they 19 were violators. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Were they violators? 21 Pardon? 22 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Let me start over for 23 your sake, sir. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: When they have 16 year 00040 1 olds in there. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: They have to leave, 4 because curfew then would be at 11 o'clock on a 5 Friday or Saturday night. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: So when they decide to 8 do their check to make sure that they don't have 9 any people who are going to be at risk of 10 violating the curfew ordinance. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: They would have the 13 people raise their arms to show their - - their 14 wristbands. That was the policy. And then those 15 that had wristbands were told, you have to leave 16 because it's 10:30 or whatever the case is. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And then what did - - 18 Did you - - Did your officer have a 19 recommendation, based on that practice and 20 procedure? 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Absolutely. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: And what was that? 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That should be the 24 other way around, because - - 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Because that makes 00041 1 sense. Because if you had a wristband, you could 2 take it off, and then you could stay. Right? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: If you were 16. 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Absolutely. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: But if you had a 7 wristband and you were 17 to 20, you would keep 8 it on. And that's what your officers 9 recommended? 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: They said it would be 11 much more effective, yes. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And I agree 13 with you on that. So tell me when did that 14 tavern check occur? 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That would have been 16 early January. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: January of 2008. 18 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: And as far as you know, 20 did they listen to you on that? 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: As far as I know they 22 did, yes. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So that sounds 24 to me like good policing. You made a suggestion. 25 Made sense. And the - - And the licensee 00042 1 followed it. Correct? 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's correct. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: So when you brought up 4 that tavern check, there's nothing really that's 5 a problem about that. That's the system working. 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I didn't say it was a 7 problem with it. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now you said 9 that the - - the club is growing, and that - - 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: The popularity is. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: The popularity is 12 growing. What does that mean for the capacity? 13 Does that have - - the popularity, does that have 14 any impact on the - - on the capacity of the 15 club? 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I would assume it 17 would. If at first they opened up, if they're 18 only receiving about 100 patrons and their 19 capacity is 350, and it becomes more popular. 20 Well, I - - I would assume that they're going to 21 have more patrons coming. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: But not beyond the 23 capacity. 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I would hope not. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Well. Okay. So that 00043 1 was my question. If it becomes more popular than 2 the capacity, the people - - they can't get in. 3 They're sent away. 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's right. They 5 - - They get sent away. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: The problem can't grow. 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: But there's no 8 guarantee they're going to leave. And I realize 9 that's not going to be their concern. It then 10 becomes mine. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: We'll get to that. 12 We'll get to that. We'll get to that. 13 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: What I'm - - I'm 15 talking about inside the club right now where the 16 license is in effect. So that it's not going to 17 grow beyond the capacity inside the club. 18 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I don't know that it 19 would. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And how do 21 you know what the capacity is? 22 CAPTAIN NEGRON: From reports. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: And can you show me the 24 report that shows the capacity is 350? 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I don't have it with 00044 1 me. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: You don't. Because 3 it's 300. Would that be correct? 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Is it 300? 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Maybe I confused it 7 with a different club. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So now when you 9 talk about the growing and the popularity inside 10 the club, how many times have you been inside the 11 club? 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I have never been 13 inside that club. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: And how many times have 15 you talked to the owners that are sit - - seat 16 - - seated here? 17 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I believe I spoke with 18 them maybe twice. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: Twice. And those were 20 regarding what? 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: One was a - - they 22 called me regarding the tavern check that we did. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: And the other one was 25 at the most recent meeting. 00045 1 MR. HALBROOKS: So that's it. So - - 2 So your concerns that you have, this is the only 3 place that's going to be heard is here today. 4 They didn't hear it from you at all, did they? 5 The only concerns they heard from your district 6 were change the wristbands. 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. Other officers 8 have stopped by periodically and spoken with 9 security who are trying to maintain control. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And what are 11 - - And have they reported to you what they have 12 recommended? 13 CAPTAIN NEGRON: They have recommended 14 that they have too many people waiting in line, 15 and how can they control it. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. What else - - 17 What else - - Anything else that you have done on 18 your own to try to have an impact on this 19 behavior? 20 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Like I said, I've 21 assigned squads to the area. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. Now, 23 what I - - what I heard you say is, I would like 24 to see it not renewed. 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's correct. 00046 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Could you explain that 2 sentence to the committee, please, a little bit 3 more detailed? Does that mean you or the 4 Milwaukee Police Department? 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: As representative of 6 the 2nd District, the Captain of the 2nd 7 District, considering the manpower resources that 8 are being drained for this establishment, I do 9 have concerns about it being renewed, that it 10 would be advantageous that it is not renewed, 11 especially in this location. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - But it is not 13 the position of the police department that they 14 shouldn't be renewed. That's just your 15 recommendation. 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Okay. It's my 17 recommendation. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now when you 19 make a recommendation, I'm - - In - - In my 20 experience I'm still trying to understand the 21 gals in no coats. Where does that fit in your 22 area of responsibility? 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Public safety. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Pardon? 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I - - I look at it as 00047 1 a public safety issue. As I stated before, the 2 area is very dark, industrial. The theme nights 3 that are being hosted - - 4 MR. HALBROOKS: I know - - I'm just 5 asking about gals - - 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Answer - - I'm trying 7 to answer you. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: - - gals - - 9 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I was trying to answer 10 your question. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Hold on. Hold on. 12 That Court Reporter is my constituent. I want to 13 keep her happy, okay. One at a time, please. Go 14 ahead. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. 16 I don't want to get - - I want to get through my 17 questions as quick as possible, and I - - I 18 heard - - 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Trust you - - Trust you 20 me, we all want you to get through them as 21 quickly as possible. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: I know. I - - I just 23 want to - - I want - - 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, please 25 go ahead. 00048 1 MR. HALBROOKS: I want to know - - 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: If we could just keep 3 it one at a time here, okay. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: I - - I'm viewing the 5 record - - 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I understand. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I have heard it, 8 and - - 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I understand. I'm just 10 saying this for the sake of the Court Reporter, 11 please. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: I think Mr. Schrimpf 13 will tell you that at some point if we're 14 briefing this, what we need to understand is why 15 do gals with no coats have any place in this 16 hearing. 17 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I can't elaborate on 18 that anymore. This goes back to - - This goes 19 back to what some things were reported to me at 20 the most recent meeting. That would be hearsay. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: So you didn't make this 22 decision to make the recommendation to close 23 until last Thursday? 24 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: You - - You made it 00049 1 last Thursday, you decided - - 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That wasn't Thursday. 3 The meeting was Tuesday, wasn't it? 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: It was Thursday. 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Was it Thursday? I'm 6 sorry. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: So you decided on 8 Thursday to come and recommend. 9 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Um-hnh. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: So when you saw the 11 gals with no coats, that didn't make you go, this 12 place has got to be closed. Only after you heard 13 from the neighbors. 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: They had me on the 15 fence, sir. And then after what I heard from the 16 neighbors, it pushed me over the fence in this 17 direction. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: And can you tell us 19 what was - - what did the neighbors say that 20 pushed you over the fence? 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Mr. Chair, can I 22 answer that? Again, it's going to be hearsay. 23 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Go ahead. Go ahead. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Not for the truth of 25 the matter, just what he believes. 00050 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It - - It was reported 3 that some of these gals are parking blocks away, 4 disrobing completely naked in the street, to put 5 their swimsuits on to walk down to this club. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: And do you believe 7 that? 8 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Sir, I can't ignore 9 everything or anything, for sometimes for that 10 matter. And when it comes down to something like 11 this, I can't ignore it. So that's why I do send 12 squads into that area. Again, I didn't see it 13 with my own eyes. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: So it's not gals with 15 no coats. It's gals with no clothes. 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It's a combination of 17 things, sir. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Now tell me 19 about the - - You said miniskirts and dress 20 provocatively. I have been unaware of how that 21 im - - the implications for a license in this 22 organization is determined along those lines. 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yeah. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: You don't really want 25 this committee to vote not to renew a license 00051 1 because of how people are dressed, do you? 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Not completely, sir. 3 No. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So now I want to 5 ask you - - 6 CAPTAIN NEGRON: But you do have to 7 take into consideration a few things. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Whoa. Whoa. Please. 9 Let - - Just let - - 10 MR. HALBROOKS: He answered. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, if - - 12 if you could let him finish and then - - 13 MR. HALBROOKS: I did. 14 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: What is a foam party? 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: The foam party, from 17 what I understand, is - - and the owners 18 described it at the meeting last week. They - - 19 They have soap and water dispersed. People get 20 wet, while they're dancing. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And that should - - And 22 they should lose their - - their dance hall 23 license because they - - because of soap and 24 water? 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I didn't say that, 00052 1 sir. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, what - - You said 3 foam is soap and water. 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: And they have foam 6 parties. 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: And you gave that as 9 one of your reasons why you are recommending, as 10 the Captain, that this not be renewed. 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yes. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Why? 13 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Well, it goes back to 14 the girls that are reported dressing on the 15 street to come into the club. One thing that was 16 also discovered, they don't have a changing room 17 in this establishment. They have restrooms. 18 They don't have locker facilities. So people 19 have to change somewhere. They're doing it in 20 their cars or on the street or wherever they're 21 doing it is what's - - what's being reported to 22 me. That's a concern. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: So it's not the foam 24 parties themselves. It's not what happens inside 25 the club. 00053 1 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No, but the foam party 4 attracts this. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: I got it. I got it. 6 Now I want to - - 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm trying to answer. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: You did. 9 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Okay. Thank you. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: You're doing great. 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Carry on. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: I want to ask about 13 Rain. Because you mentioned something about Rain 14 and an adult club. You don't mean adult like - - 15 Because you used the word strip club. You mean 16 adults as in 21 and over. 17 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: When we say "adult," 19 that's 18, but you're talking about - - 20 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: - - of legal drinking 22 age. Correct? 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's correct. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: And you indicated that 25 you didn't have enough squads to patrol the area 00054 1 last Friday. 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I had squads deployed 3 all over the district for other events, also. So 4 the squad in the area did their best. 5 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have any idea 6 what happened at Rain last Friday? 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So if there were 9 hundreds of people stacked up outside, you 10 wouldn't even know about it. 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's a possibility. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: And how - - So you 13 wouldn't know whether the people walking past 14 Sugar going to Rain, whether they were Rain 15 customers, Sugar customers at all, would you? 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And frankly, 18 you wouldn't know whether these provocatively 19 dressed women are going to Rain or Sugar. 20 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's correct. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Now, I 22 heard you say, when you were describing the area, 23 west lot and residential. The west are lots and 24 residential. When you mean "lots," you mean just 25 vacant? 00055 1 CAPTAIN NEGRON: There's a - - There's 2 a gas station, has a parking lot with it, 3 adjacent to it. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: So when you get to 6 about 2nd Street, you start getting into more 7 residential area, westbound. 8 MR. HALBROOKS: And where do the 9 customers for Sugar park? 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm told they park 11 everywhere. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: But - - But you haven't 13 seen it yourself. 14 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Based on reports of 15 people undressing. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So you don't 17 have anything here today to show us that they 18 park over there that the committee could 19 consider, just hearsay. 20 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That's correct. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. All right. Now 22 you talked, I think, we talked about the - - the 23 draining of the manpower, and you don't have any 24 records on that. But then you did talk about 25 these self-initiated calls. Does a self- 00056 1 initiated call come from an occurrence that you 2 know about, or do you go, better go check what's 3 going on over there? 4 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It's - - It's probably 5 both. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. So what is - - 7 When you - - When you have a hunch, which is fair 8 game in your business, right? And you send 9 somebody over there, you're now - - you're now 10 indicating that we should take that manpower into 11 consideration. 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Absolutely. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And how many of these 14 self-initiated calls have resulted in concerns 15 about Sugar? 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I'm sorry. One more 17 time? 18 MR. HALBROOKS: How many of these self- 19 initiated calls where you had hunches have 20 resulted in concerns that you can tell the 21 committee about here? 22 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I can't talk in exact 23 figures, but we have had plenty of calls. Not 24 calls, self-initiated - - 25 MR. HALBROOKS: No. Self-initiated. 00057 1 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Self-initiated. 2 Right. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Where you sent people 4 over there. 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. For the area. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. 7 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Um-hnh. And it's 8 usually on Friday or Saturday night. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: No, no. I want to know 10 specifically what has resulted from those self- 11 initiated calls. 12 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Traffic stops, 13 citations. Exact numbers, I don't have. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: And you don't have 15 numbers or the citations or the traffic stop 16 records. 17 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Right? Okay. All 19 right. Now, let's get to the CADs. Can you 20 please tell the committee which of those 21 incidents that you referred to on your research 22 are related to Sugar? 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Sure. Definitely, the 24 March 28th sexual assault was directly related to 25 that one. 00058 1 MR. HALBROOKS: That one we've heard 2 about. 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Yup. And April 18th, 4 nightclub, numerous subjects in the parking lot, 5 at the gas station. That - - 100 subjects that 6 are not in line for the club. And, again, that's 7 referring to - - 8 MR. HALBROOKS: The same incident that 9 we heard about. Now, what others? 10 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Let's see here. I'm 11 looking for the exact address of Club Sugar, and 12 some of these aren't going to have it, just so 13 you are aware. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm just asking which 15 one - - 16 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: You presented 18 testimony, based on the documents in front of you 19 to indicate that these CADs are related to Sugar. 20 And for the record, you're paging through them, 21 and I haven't - - Okay. Go ahead. 22 CAPTAIN NEGRON: There's damage to 23 property on February 24th at 126 East Mineral. 24 That's Sugar. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. What - - Well, 00059 1 let's go through it. What is the - - 2 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It says, being flagged 3 down for a property damage. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: By? 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: And it shows here - - 6 I can't read these very well. It just shows the 7 officer who got flagged down, and that they filed 8 a report. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: By who flagged him 10 down? 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It doesn't state. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Next? 13 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Sure. Next one is 14 February 24th, again. And this says, Caller 15 states that Club Sugar is still open, and it is 16 letting kids as young as 13 and 14 into the club. 17 Caller states she talked to District 2, and they 18 weren't aware that it was going to be open all 19 night. And again, that was anonymous. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And so - - And 21 by anonymous, you mean, you won't tell us? 22 CAPTAIN NEGRON: No. Anonymous means 23 that they didn't give us their name. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. Got it. 25 CAPTAIN NEGRON: The other one - - 00060 1 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry. Can I just 2 - - What time was the call? 3 CAPTAIN NEGRON: That one came in late. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: What time? 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: 2:44. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. And they said at 7 2:44 that the club was still open. 8 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: And did you send 10 officers? 11 CAPTAIN NEGRON: We have to. Yes, we 12 did. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And what - - what did 14 the officers find? 15 CAPTAIN NEGRON: It - - It was C15 16 means no one's on scene. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: So there was a call 18 that the club was open. You deployed an officer 19 over there. And nothing was - - The place was 20 closed. 21 CAPTAIN NEGRON: Right. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: Okay. All right. 23 CAPTAIN NEGRON: The other ones, I'm 24 going to stipulate to that I can't tie these 25 directly into the club. They're in the immed - - 00061 1 immediate area. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Can we stipulate that 3 - - Can we stipulate the committee shouldn't 4 consider them then? 5 CAPTAIN NEGRON: I would still like 6 them to be considered. But if they can't be - - 7 MR. HALBROOKS: You want - - You want 8 them to consider - - 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Halbrooks, let me 10 just say this much. As the Chair, I will rule 11 them out of order. They are - - They are not PA- 12 33s. They are CAD reports. There is no direct 13 tie. They are - - They are - - If there - - If 14 there is, there must be a direct tie. And then I 15 - - And I respect, Captain, your position, and 16 - - and the concern here, but ultimately, I think 17 that a credible case has been made that there has 18 to be more than a concern that is expressed 19 about, gee, the potential, or we don't like, or 20 I've heard. I mean, even the police department 21 has to come in and provide proper documentation. 22 And I know that you - - you have the utmost 23 respect for the law, because you represent the 24 law, and the law states that there is a vested 25 property right in an established license. And 00062 1 the vested property right means that they must 2 have previous notice of police reports that are 3 detailed and explicit, which follows the course 4 through law of a PA-33 and not a CAD report, even 5 with your testimony provided. And with - - with 6 that, I respect greatly, as - - as Mr. Halbrooks 7 has pointed out, even you would have to say that 8 through your CAD report and - - and that is you, 9 as a Captain, are providing hearsay based on what 10 other officers are providing in the form of a 11 documentation that's not even provided to the 12 applicant, as well, too. It's problematic. So 13 if that helps you and cuts that short, it's - - 14 MR. HALBROOKS: I forgot the rest of 15 the things I was going to go through. 16 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Yeah, okay. I do want 17 to hear, at this point, are there other questions 18 that we have of - - of the Captain. I want to 19 hear - - There were a couple neighbors, I know, 20 that were here to testify. Are they still around 21 here at this point? Are the neighbors here to 22 testify in the matter? I mean, I - - I don't 23 know if - - if time was an allotment for them, as 24 well, too. And if so, I'm apologetic for that, 25 as well, too. Because I do know that there were 00063 1 neighbors. Are there any neighbors here to 2 testify on the issue for Michael Grosse for - - 3 for Sugar at 126 East Mineral Street? Let the 4 record reflect that no one does acknowledge here 5 at this time. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Chair, if I may. I 7 know that the owners would like to comment. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You know what? I - - I 9 - - What I do want to hear before we hear from 10 the owners, because I'll let you do that as part 11 of whatever your - - your closing presentation 12 is. I do want to hear from Alderman Witkowiak at 13 this point here. 14 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 15 Chairman, members. I just want - - Does Officer 16 Lazo have any personal testimony, or are you just 17 verifying - - Because I know we had - - 18 OFFICER LAZO: Just observation of what 19 the Captain talked about when we were there. 20 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Okay. 21 OFFICER LAZO: Which I don't know if 22 you guys want to hear it again, or - - 23 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: So you have 24 enough - - 25 OFFICER LAZO: We just have the 00064 1 observations that I, myself, have been there. 2 Where the security is actually asking us to help 3 them to disperse their crowds. 4 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: I would actually 5 like to hear that testimony. I mean, Officer 6 Lazo was out of the room when we asked. So she 7 has - - She has testimony that's not hearsay. 8 It's personal. So if we could just briefly hear 9 her testimony. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Sure. 11 OFFICER LAZO: It was just - - 12 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And, Officer Lazo, if 13 you could just identify yourself by your first 14 name, as well, too. 15 OFFICER LAZO: Evelyn Lazo, L-A-Z-O, 16 Lazo. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And you are a Officer 18 of the 2nd Police District? 19 OFFICER LAZO: Correct. 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. And your normal 21 shift and squad number, if you have one, please. 22 OFFICER LAZO: It actually varies. I'm 23 actually in the Special Unit, the anti-gang unit. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So you essentially work 25 out of the Captain's car then. Is that correct? 00065 1 OFFICER LAZO: Correct. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Please proceed. Thank 3 you. 4 OFFICER LAZO: Like the Captain said, 5 just observations were security has flagged us 6 down and asked us to help disperse their crowd. 7 And the barricades, we actually had told them to 8 remove the barricades, that they couldn't block 9 the street. Because we couldn't even get in 10 there. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: How - - How often was 12 this occurring, Officer Lazo? How frequently 13 have you - - have you been out to this particular 14 location and seen these type of activities? 15 OFFICER LAZO: Me, myself, like three 16 or four times. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. All late a 18 night, typically weekends, then? 19 OFFICER LAZO: It's always been 20 weekends, mostly Saturday. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And the - - the trouble 22 is typically with a large crowd. Is it more 23 dispersing, or is it waiting, or what, in terms 24 of the nature - - 25 OFFICER LAZO: It's my observation, 00066 1 it's been the dispersing of it. Where the - - 2 They hang out at the gas station, and I observed 3 where the - - they're trying to get them to get 4 moving, and they don't want to leave. So they're 5 arguing back and forth, and then we have to get 6 involved and tell them to leave. 7 CHAIRMAN BOHL: So consuming resources 8 based on sort of the pandering, loitering, other 9 type of not wanting to just get out of the area. 10 OFFICER LAZO: Right. They just don't 11 want to leave the area. There was one incident, 12 also, that I observed where the actual security 13 guards were making out with one of the females. 14 I mean, I don't know how old she was, and I can't 15 say - - say how old she is or - - But I just want 16 to say where they were actually - - Well, I'm in 17 the gas station, one of the security guards was 18 actually making out with one of the patrons from 19 there, right - - right on the corner right from 20 where I was standing. 21 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'm not going to ask if 22 she was wearing a bikini that time. That won't 23 be my follow-up question. 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: I just want to - - 25 Are you sure this is the security guard not the 00067 1 attorney over here? 2 OFFICER LAZO: Yeah. 3 MR. MAISTELMAN: Thank you, Alderman 4 Zielinski. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Officer, anything else 6 that you've seen in terms of - - 7 OFFICER LAZO: But just that the - - 8 the cruising, the dispersing of the crowd, them 9 needing help, blocking the streets, where we - - 10 I mean, they - - they - - When we told them to 11 move the barricades, they did move the 12 barricades, because they couldn't block the 13 street. I mean, there's other people coming and 14 going, too, going to Club Rain and stuff like 15 that. They need to get in there, and it's 16 actually causing more trouble for us. 17 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Are there 18 questions by committee of - - of Officer Lazo? 19 Thank you for your brief testimony here. Mr. 20 Halbrooks? 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. The 22 security guard was making out at this point, 23 where was it? 24 OFFICER LAZO: Well, I was trying to 25 get the crowd dispersed out of this gas station. 00068 1 Some of the security was actually standing with 2 me, and then, when I turned around, I actually 3 saw one of the securities. He had security on 4 his T-shirt, and he was actually by the corner 5 from the gas station and he was making out with a 6 female. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And who did he work 8 for? 9 OFFICER LAZO: I believe he worked for 10 Club Sugar. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: I'm sorry. Do you 12 believe or do you know? 13 OFFICER LAZO: I believe he worked for 14 them. I mean, I didn't go up to him and say, do 15 you work for Club Sugar? It was - - It was their 16 security. They wore the same T-shirts. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And if he did, you 18 don't even know if he was still on duty, do you? 19 OFFICER LAZO: I do not know that. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And was he doing 21 anything illegal? 22 OFFICER LAZO: I didn't go over there 23 and question to see how old the girl was or 24 anything like that, so I don't - - I don't know. 25 I mean, what I observed, just them making out. 00069 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Now I heard - - I heard 2 the Captain say something about Citgo, this gas 3 station going for a nuisance. Are you - - Have 4 you referred this matter for a nuisance action? 5 The Citgo? 6 OFFICER LAZO: Myself, no. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: The department? 8 OFFICER LAZO: I'm not sure. That 9 would be somebody else. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: So you don't know 11 anything about that. 12 OFFICER LAZO: No. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And are you suggesting 14 that when the people - - First of all, were these 15 customers of Rain or customers of Sugar? 16 OFFICER LAZO: Customers of Sugar. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: And you know that 18 because? 19 OFFICER LAZO: They asked us for help 20 to disperse the crowd. They were trying - - They 21 were trying to get them to get out of the gas 22 station? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Who asked you for help? 24 OFFICER LAZO: The security. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: From? 00070 1 OFFICER LAZO: Sugar. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: So the Sugar security 3 is over at Citgo. 4 OFFICER LAZO: Trying to get the crowd 5 out of there. Trying to get them to move. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Doesn't it seem like 7 Citgo should take responsibility for Citgo? 8 OFFICER LAZO: I don't know. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: So Sugar's trying to 10 help out the neighborhood at that point, because 11 they're on somebody's private property. 12 OFFICER LAZO: Correct. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Correct? All right. I 14 think that's all I have. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you. Other 16 questions at this time. Otherwise, Alderman 17 Witkowiak. 18 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Thank you, Mr. 19 Chairman, members. To put this in perspective, 20 the - - the barricades that were referred to 21 recently, that is - - It's exactly one-half block 22 away from the residential part of the 23 neighborhood. They - - Our good attorneys here 24 are characterizing this as that this is far away 25 from a residential neighborhood. The barricades 00071 1 where they were blocking the street off is one- 2 half a block away. Actually, across the street, 3 the Citgo station, and then the first resident 4 - - residential street starts. So just so you 5 know it's closer to a residential neighborhood 6 and has more effect on it than - - than some 7 people would lead you to believe. 8 When this license was first applied 9 for, I called a neighborhood meeting. And 10 unfortunately, it was sparsely populated. I 11 think we had - - we had four or five people 12 there, and the - - the gentleman at - - The 13 applicant and his employees were at the meeting. 14 And - - And basically, they explained that they 15 were going to do - - It was going to be like a 16 Christian dance club. So although there were - - 17 there were some concerns from the people that 18 were there, they said that, you know, if - - if 19 you're going to run a tight ship and that's the 20 type of entertainment you're going to do, we 21 can't - - we can't foresee a problem with this. 22 And - - And, therefore, the license was born. 23 The - - What - - What measures they 24 have taken - - The attorneys are going to 25 testify, and they're going to want to show you a 00072 1 CD and all this stuff about what happened there 2 Friday night. And I, in fact, was there Friday 3 night. Attorney Maistelman called me up. I was 4 at home. He said, give these guys a fair shot. 5 We want to come down there and take a look at the 6 place. But don't forget that they knew we were 7 coming. So we first went in there, it was 8 probably, I'm just going to take a guess, it was 9 probably ten o'clock or 10:30. There was maybe 10 100 people in there, and I didn't see anything 11 wrong going on. There was - - Although I have to 12 tell you, there was almost as much security 13 walking around the neighborhood as there was 14 patrons in the establishment. The - - The point 15 I'm trying to make is that - - is that this 16 neighborhood meeting that we had recently, the 17 one we referred to a week ago, and - - and I'm so 18 sorry that we had people from the neighborhood 19 that were here to testify, and I'm so sorry that 20 they had to leave. The - - These - - The 21 licensee, I think got the - - got the fear of God 22 that they were going to lose their license, and 23 to me, I look at - - I look at the problems that 24 - - that came from this over the past few months. 25 And to me it's - - it's too little too late. I 00073 1 can tell you that we were there at about 10:30. 2 There was 100 people in there. Everything was 3 fine. We were there later on in the evening. 4 Everything was fine. 5 There was a large crowd of people 6 starting to - - about a block east of there at a 7 different club, Club Rain. Now just recently, so 8 you can say, okay, all the problems that we're 9 attributing to Sugar were because of Rain. Rain 10 just recently, and I'm talking about - - I talked 11 to the owner of Rain. He switched his music 12 format on Friday night just three weeks ago. So 13 the problems that they're talking about with - - 14 with Sugar existed long before that. So having 15 the fear of losing their license, they hired - - 16 I can't tell you how many security people. Every 17 time we drove down a block we saw these - - these 18 teams of Sugar's security. I - - 19 MR. MAISTELMAN: Nobody was making out, 20 either. 21 ALDERMAN WITKOWIAK: Yeah. No. Not 22 that we saw anyway. And this is - - This is - - 23 This is a knee-jerk reaction. I can tell you, 24 Friday night they fixed the problem. I can 25 testify to that. They'll ask me these questions. 00074 1 There was no problem at Sugar Friday night. I 2 can tell you that. They fixed the problem. I 3 also want to remind this committee that they knew 4 that I was coming. 5 The - - This part about the - - the 6 alcohol and the garbage that's been referred to 7 and everything. The - - One of the - - One of 8 the common things with teen clubs, and I don't 9 think any of you are - - are that naive that you 10 don't understand this, is that when they go to 11 these clubs, they - - they drink travelers. They 12 call them travelers. So they - - they have their 13 alcohol before they go in the club. So - - But 14 now we're going to get rid of the 16 year olds, 15 and now we're going to do a Breathalyzer, and now 16 we're going to do an ID scan. And I think all 17 that stuff is great. But the - - the place was 18 clearly out of control before that. The crowds, 19 they're talking about the barricades and - - and 20 the - - the people filling up the Citgo station, 21 and I - - I - - I would disagree with Attorney 22 Halbrooks here. If was a Citgo station, I would 23 tell Sugar, you people caused this disturbance 24 over here. You come get them out. So I see why 25 the Sugar security people are over there. 00075 1 Frankly, I'm sick of hearing the 2 complaints. My office is sick of hearing the 3 complaints. Again, what they did - - What they 4 put into effect and whatever they did Friday 5 night, there was no problem. And if there was 6 any problems in the neighborhood caused by people 7 waiting outside and being boisterous coming and 8 going, it was because of Club Rain, which is - - 9 which is a block to the east of there. But, 10 however, this - - this wasn't the case six months 11 ago. It was - - It was the opposite. And - - 12 And the - - the proof in that, so they say it was 13 all coming from Rain, is that the barricades were 14 - - I mean, they had to barricade the street off, 15 Mineral Street, to contain or police their own 16 crowd. So now that they're faced with the 17 possibility of losing their license, they take 18 measures like this. 19 And I also - - And I also just worry, 20 as the Captain does. Again, I think if this was 21 - - If this was a Christian music club attracting 22 those kind of people, I - - I don't see much of a 23 water and oil mix in the neighborhood with the 24 other, what we'll call, adult enter - - 25 entertainment establishments, because - - because 00076 1 they wouldn't want to hang around. Those kind of 2 people don't want to hang around those other kind 3 of places. But now with this group that's in 4 there, they're - - they're soon to be legal and 5 - - and they - - they like mixing with the - - 6 They like mixing with the people that are coming 7 and going in the adult entertainment 8 establishments, and - - and - - and they 9 shouldn't be. That's - - That's water and oil. 10 So for those reasons I'm very 11 concerned. One other thing I want to mention. 12 I'm not a - - Somebody came up with this term, I 13 don't know, 20 years ago. I'm - - I'm not a 14 believer in - - I don't believe in progressive 15 discipline. I think the punishment should always 16 fit the crime. So the - - I think the - - I have 17 to - - What I said at the community meeting, the 18 one that we had recently, and - - and I'll repeat 19 it to you is - - is my - - I'd very pleased with 20 the redevelopment, what's happening in the 12th 21 District in that area. It's - - It's a 22 Renaissance of amazing proportions. And I'm very 23 happy and glad to lead the charge of that. I'm 24 - - I'm also charged, and more importantly, with 25 the duty of ensuring that the constituents that 00077 1 live in that area have the - - have the peaceful 2 enjoyment of their property, and the peaceful 3 enjoyment of their property is being disturbed 4 because, not just because of Sugar. There's - - 5 There's other elements and other places down 6 there. But it's part of the - - It's part of the 7 problem. Again, I give the guys credit for 8 coming up with the - - the results that they did 9 on short notice. But before - - Before the - - 10 Before they knew that there was a possibility 11 that they could lose their license, it was like 12 - - it was like the Wild West down there. So I 13 will leave this matter to the discretion of the 14 committee. 15 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I'll let you provide 16 your closing here, however you want to see fit, 17 but this will be your efforts here, putting your 18 closing remarks. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: I had a couple 20 witnesses. I wanted the - - the owner to be able 21 to talk, and we do have one witness here. So if 22 I could just briefly have them go through some of 23 this. And do you want to state your name into 24 the microphone? 25 THE APPLICANT: Sean Pliss, S-E-A-N, P- 00078 1 L-I-S-S. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: And what is your role 3 with Sugar? 4 THE APPLICANT: I'm the owner, and I'm 5 also one of the operators. I'm there every 6 single night that we're open. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And every single night 8 you're open is? 9 THE APPLICANT: Fridays and Saturdays. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Now there have been a 11 number of statements made here today. Is there 12 anything initially you want to say to the 13 committee? 14 THE APPLICANT: Nothing other than the 15 first - - the first we were hearing about really 16 the bulk of the complaints was at the meeting. 17 Actually, any of the complaints was at the 18 neighborhood meeting last Thursday. When we let 19 out, just like anyplace else, we let out - - All 20 the people leave at one time. So other than that 21 being an issue, there wasn't any. The gas 22 station we do help clear, because - - Before 23 consulting with our attorneys, we - - we took it 24 upon ourselves to do that, because we know that, 25 okay, if they are our customers - - I'm not 00079 1 saying that they all are. But if they are, let's 2 make sure that they're not hanging around there, 3 that they're not loitering, that they're not 4 causing any problems. And from what we've seen, 5 there hasn't been. And I'm there ever single 6 night. I'm there every Friday and every 7 Saturday. I'm very hands-on. We're all there. 8 All three of us. And we can all, you know, we 9 can all tell you that. 10 From what the Captain says, as far as 11 eight squads, it actually would be nice in that 12 area if there were eight squads all the time 13 because of the problems that have been in that 14 area. And there's just not. And there's not on 15 Friday, and there's not on Saturday, and there's 16 not on any other day of the week. So, other than 17 that, we have - - 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, let me - - I just 19 want to ask a couple of questions, if I may, Mr. 20 Chair. How many security personnel have you 21 hired since last Thursday's meeting? 22 THE APPLICANT: Well, we hired - - 23 Currently we have six inside guys and two outside 24 guys. We since hired an additional two outside 25 guys, and the other two that were outside guys 00080 1 are a lot more active, and we've also hired - - 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, we'll get to 3 that. But - - But in - - These people work for 4 you? 5 THE APPLICANT: They work for us, 6 correct. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And they were trained 8 as security guards? 9 THE APPLICANT: Prior to us hiring 10 them. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: So it's your testimony 12 that since the meeting, you've brought on two 13 additional personnel. 14 THE APPLICANT: Three. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: I understand. But I'm 16 talking about that work directly for you. 17 THE APPLICANT: Yes. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Not a consultant. 19 THE APPLICANT: Right. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And let me ask 21 you this. The - - The two additional people, 22 they are outside in the neighborhood? 23 THE APPLICANT: They are. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: And you didn't - - It's 25 not your understanding that you needed any 00081 1 additional security inside. 2 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: You have how many 4 personnel inside? 5 THE APPLICANT: Anywhere from six to 6 eight. Generally - - Generally six. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And you have 4800 8 square feet. 9 THE APPLICANT: Yeah, 4800 square feet, 10 correct. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: And could you describe 12 how you designed the inside of the club for the 13 committee? 14 THE APPLICANT: Initially, when we 15 designed the club, it was designed as a big open 16 space. It's a complete - - It was a empty 17 warehouse, hasn't - - It's been abandoned for, I 18 don't know, a couple years. Not abandoned, but 19 it was not in use for a few years. Basically, 20 it's four walls. You know. A large dance floor. 21 It's a nice sofa scene. We have an area that 22 people can rent out for VIP. But it's - - Or, 23 you know, birthday parties. We get a lot of 24 that. And it's all - - It's all wide opened. 25 There's nothing enclosed. There's no areas where 00082 1 people can tuck away. It's all wide open. If 2 you stand up in the, what we call, the VIP area, 3 you can see the entire club. If you're up in the 4 DJ area, you can see the entire club. We 5 also - - 6 MR. HALBROOKS: Why did you do that? 7 THE APPLICANT: For - - To - - To 8 combat any incidents that may happen in the club, 9 which as you can see, we don't have any. We 10 don't have any incidents inside the club. So 11 that goes to - - to show you that what we did was 12 actually, or, you know, the right thing to do, 13 the right way to design it. There's a lot of 14 places that have traffic flow problems inside the 15 club that create issues. We don't have any of 16 those issues. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Now you were here 18 earlier when the Captain of the district was 19 testifying. 20 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And his police officer. 22 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: Did they, with regard 24 to the contacts that you and your partners have 25 had with the police, did they accurately 00083 1 summarize those? 2 THE APPLICANT: I had one phone call, 3 yes, with Captain Negron. And that was about the 4 wristband issue. And, Officer Lazo, I had 5 contact with you one time on that same issue. 6 Captain Negron, it was after that, I had called 7 him, and - - to let him know what our procedures 8 were. In fact, I was going to e-mail him 9 something over, and I believe he told me that 10 that wasn't necessary, as long as he knew what we 11 were doing. And that was really the - - That's 12 the extent of my contact with these two officers. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And so - - And 14 again, there haven't been any license related 15 matters inside the club. 16 THE APPLICANT: Correct. Absolutely no 17 license violations. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Now - - Now that you've 19 had a chance to get to know your neighbors as of 20 last week. Correct? 21 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: How do you view your 23 role in the neighborhood? 24 THE APPLICANT: We actually take - - We 25 have an invested interest in the - - in the area, 00084 1 in the entire neighborhood. We've went to 2 several different neighbors and told them, look, 3 if you're having problems, here's our contact 4 information. We gave them all three, our 5 personal cell phone numbers, and said, here's our 6 - - here's our cell phone numbers. If you have 7 any problems, no matter what time it is, what day 8 it is, give us a call. We'll handle it, and 9 we'll get it taken care of. We offered to have a 10 neighborhood meeting once a month, like we did on 11 Thursday. It was a productive meeting. Why 12 can't we do that every - - every month, once - - 13 once a month. We have the venue. We'll hold it 14 there. And let's go over issues in the 15 neighborhood. Not just coming from us, but the 16 entire area. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Now, so the wristband 18 suggestion that we talked about, did we 19 accurately describe what happened there? 20 THE APPLICANT: Yeah. Yeah, we took 21 the - - As a matter of fact - - I'm not sure if 22 that was - - I think that was a Friday that that 23 occurred. And that following Saturday, or that - 24 - the next night, we already had the procedure in 25 place, and all the security on board with what we 00085 1 were doing. We also - - So you know, when we 2 were - - were doing the 16 year olds, we do have 3 a count of how many 16 year olds are in the club, 4 and we count them as they leave. So the 5 wristbands for us were never a huge issue the way 6 we were doing it, because we always count the 7 people going out. But we understood that, you 8 know what, we probably were doing this the 9 opposite way of what we should have. And we did 10 it the correct way, which kind of in our view, as 11 far as the lines, that's kind of what has been 12 holding up the lines. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Well, we'll get to - - 14 That's what I want to get to. 15 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 16 MR. HALBROOKS: The - - So the 17 procedure that was in place was if you were 17, 18 18, 19, 20, you got a wristband. 19 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: And how long did that 21 take? 22 THE APPLICANT: It took a while. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. So now 24 you've met with the neighbors. And after you met 25 with the neighbors, you decided to exclude 16 00086 1 year olds. 2 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: And so now, do you need 4 wristbands? 5 THE APPLICANT: We don't need anymore - 6 - anymore wristbands, no. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: So what was causing 8 these lines that I've been hearing about? 9 THE APPLICANT: Well, in our opinion, 10 it was the - - the placing of the wristbands. 11 That takes a while. They all had a sticky back. 12 You have to rip the sticky back off. You have to 13 make sure they're on. People come. My 14 wristband's too tight. My wristband's too loose. 15 So you have to redo them. It's kind of holding 16 up the line. Now without doing that - - Before 17 we were doing that, we really didn't have any 18 line issues. All - - Any line issues kind of 19 occurred after we started doing the wristbands 20 like that, which we expected, because we knew it 21 would take time, especially after the first 22 night. We knew it would take time. We got a 23 little more efficient at it, but it didn't - - 24 There's only - - You can only go so fast when 25 you're doing something like that. 00087 1 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. Now there's 2 been a suggestion, and - - and I'm going to admit 3 that when we had conversations, we talked about a 4 way to measure whether people had been drinking 5 alcohol. Correct? 6 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: But had you ever let 8 anybody in who smelled of alcohol? 9 THE APPLICANT: No. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: That's always been your 11 practice and procedure. 12 THE APPLICANT: Always been our 13 practice from day one. We have two security guys 14 at the door, you know, very well versed in - - in 15 how to - - how to look for that and what to see. 16 And it's not just their breath. It's how they're 17 acting. It's their attitude. It's their, you 18 know, the way they're walking. It's - - It's a 19 bunch of different things. So - - 20 MR. HALBROOKS: So they were always 21 tossed, but they never had been banned before. 22 THE APPLICANT: Say that again? 23 MR. HALBROOKS: They had never been 24 banned before, like we talked about under the 25 Milwaukee Code of Ordinances. 00088 1 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 2 MR. HALBROOKS: Now the Captain - - 3 They don't believe you can keep track of that. 4 And I suggested you could. Can you settle that? 5 THE APPLICANT: Yeah, I think you can. 6 I think, like our attorney has stated, there are 7 people that come into our establishment with 8 school IDs that don't have State IDs, and here 9 are a couple different type of scanners. Some 10 that you can scan barcodes. Well, we can't do 11 that, because some school IDs don't have that, 12 and then - - But the ID checker takes a picture 13 of it, which would go directly to a computer, 14 which if we say, okay, this person's banned, we 15 could print up a picture that's on the computer 16 of that individual. Put it in a binder and have 17 it at the front door. That person would never be 18 let in. Plus I have two security guys that work 19 at the door work for us every single Friday and 20 Saturday, the same two guys. We don't - - We 21 don't alternate guys at the front door, because 22 they know who their, you know, who to look for 23 and what we expect at the front door. So both of 24 those things would completely abolish any of 25 that. 00089 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Now one of the things I 2 learned in - - in discussing this matter with you 3 is that - - that you have some different issues 4 as - - as it relates to crowd control than 5 taverns do. When - - When of-age individuals go 6 to taverns, they might go and have a drink, and 7 go to another place. What's been your 8 experience? 9 THE APPLICANT: Well, when our guests 10 come, they come for the entire night, with 11 exception to the 16 year olds who had to leave 12 prior to curfew. Our customers, they - - they 13 come and the majority of them, they stay. They 14 don't have any other place to go. So they stay 15 by us, and they leave at closing, or close to 16 closing. Because they don't have any other 17 options. There's no place else for these kids to 18 go. So those 300 people who, you know, may come 19 on any given night, are off the streets for the 20 entire night, from the time we open at nine 21 o'clock, or whatever time they get there until 22 the time we close, which is now one o'clock. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: But what you've learned 24 about people - - Because what I saw at Rain where 25 a couple 100 people waiting to get in, I presume, 00090 1 waiting for people to leave. What have you 2 learned about in - - with the - - What have you 3 decided, based on your experience at your club? 4 THE APPLICANT: Well, based on our 5 experience and our - - our one - - our one 6 request for assistance from the officers, is not 7 to allow the guests to wait in line. Once we 8 reach our - - our number, instead of having 9 people wait for other people to leave, since now 10 we know that, you know, they're pretty much there 11 for the entire night. We just tell them right 12 off the bat when they come up, that we're full, 13 we're not letting anybody in for the entire 14 night. 15 MR. HALBROOKS: Now, in - - In our 16 discussions we have talked about some changes in 17 rules and polices and your business plan that you 18 want to present to the committee. 19 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 20 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you - - Do you have 21 those that we can present? 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And Alderman Kovac will 23 move to make this business plan part of our 24 official record in this proceeding. Hearing no 25 objections to that, so ordered. 00091 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Now, again, this - - 2 We've - - We've just given the committee three 3 documents. And this came out of discussions that 4 we had. We're not hiding that. Right? 5 THE APPLICANT: Correct. 6 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And - - And 7 so, the business plan, if you could address the 8 business plan that we've presented, understanding 9 that we're going to hold you to that. If - - If 10 you get a license, this is how you operate. 11 THE APPLICANT: Correct. Well, this 12 - - The business plan, not a whole lot different 13 than our original business plan and - - and the 14 fact that we did state originally that we were 15 going to try to do a - - a Christian theme night, 16 where we play Christian rock and have some 17 Christian bands come in. Well. 18 MR. MAISTELMAN: But now we're going to 19 have Judeo and Christian music. 20 THE APPLICANT: And that just over the 21 past year hasn't worked out. Anybody that we 22 approached was more interested in hey, it's a 23 great idea, but can we do it at our facility. 24 Well, I'm proposing for you to do it at our 25 facility. So I'm not a promoter going in to 00092 1 promote, you know, to do it at their facility. 2 It is a great idea, and they all want to have it 3 at their facility for their own betterment. So 4 we've taken that out, not with the - - not with 5 the thought that we're not going to do it. But 6 we didn't want to make any promises, and I 7 apologize if we misled the alderman and any 8 neighbors that were there, that that's what we 9 were going to do. It was never our intent to do 10 it on - - on Fridays and Saturdays. It was in 11 addition to what we do to generate additional 12 business for the - - 13 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you want to stay in 14 business? 15 THE APPLICANT: Do we want to stay in 16 business? Absolutely, yes. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you have another job 18 besides this? 19 THE APPLICANT: No, this is my 20 livelihood. It's what I do. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And how do you 22 differentiate between a tavern and the service 23 you provide in this club? 24 THE APPLICANT: Well, I guess there's a 25 couple different ways. One of the ways I stated 00093 1 is, you know, collectively we're taking, you 2 know, up to 300 kids off of the streets every, 3 you know, Friday and Saturday night. Giving them 4 a place to go, a safe environment where we don't 5 have any problems, no issues inside. And really, 6 no issues outside. 7 Another thing is we're not - - we don't 8 promote drinking and then driving. And then, who 9 knows after that. We don't allow, you know, 10 there's no drinking in our establishment. We're 11 completely alcohol free. So it's a place for the 12 kids to go and not go to house parties where 13 there are, you know, where they're drinking, you 14 know, kegs of beer and - - and all this other 15 stuff. They're not - - We put them in a safe 16 environment. 17 CAPTAIN NEGRON: This is what we - - 18 This is what we - - 19 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Can I interject? 20 You're not coming up for the first time. We're 21 broader than the scope of anything that's been 22 testified to here now. 23 THE APPLICANT: Okay. 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I - - I just want 25 to - - 00094 1 MR. HALBROOKS: Just close. 2 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Reel it in if you can 3 here. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Closing. Okay. 5 THE APPLICANT: Really, other than 6 that, if - - 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And the second document 8 is? 9 THE APPLICANT: Well, we have our rules 10 and policies, and we have, you know, procedures 11 in place to, like I mentioned, the PVTs, the 12 preliminary breath test. We'll do that. No 13 guests under - - under the age of 17 allowed. 14 We'll do that. We also have signs made. We go 15 beyond having signs made for the customers to 16 leave the area. Signs to us are not enough. Our 17 security actually goes out into the neighborhood 18 and makes sure everybody's gone. By - - We close 19 at one o'clock this weekend. By 1:05 on Friday 20 and 1:10 or thereabouts, 1:05 on Saturday, all 21 our guests were out of the neighborhood 22 completely. So I think what we've done has 23 showed that it can work, and - - 24 MR. HALBROOKS: And the final document 25 is your message to your customers as they leave. 00095 1 THE APPLICANT: Right. And this would 2 be what would be posted on our doors as they 3 leave, and not only are we posting it, but we are 4 telling them that, look, when you leave, we're 5 not going to - - we're not going to yell at you 6 and say, hey, you know, you're not leaving the 7 neighborhood. We're telling you that if you 8 don't leave the neighborhood, and you don't, you 9 know, leave in an orderly fashion, that you're 10 not going to be let in at all. 11 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And the one 12 thing that I said we'd get to. You have - - You 13 believe you've now dealt with that situation, so 14 that if people - - This isn't just a sign. As 15 someone appeared earlier and the Chairman 16 appropriately pointed out, signs are easy. But 17 you have - - You believe that you have personnel 18 now, a consultant you brought in, that will deal 19 with the particular issue. 20 THE APPLICANT: Yeah, we have 21 procedures and we have a plan. I think that's 22 the biggest thing, is to have a plan. 23 MR. HALBROOKS: And it's already been 24 implemented. 25 THE APPLICANT: And it's implemented, 00096 1 yeah. It's been implemented as of this past 2 Friday. And it will continue every Friday and 3 Saturday that we are open, every night that we're 4 open. 5 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Is that in terms of 6 your closing, did you have one other witness? 7 MR. HALBROOKS: I have one other 8 witness. I don't know if the committee has any 9 questions. You want to wait for those? I'd like 10 to call Richard Lucas then. 11 CHAIRMAN BOHL: You can call him right 12 now here. I'll need your name and address for 13 the record, sir, please. If you need to spell 14 your name because it's difficult, I would ask 15 that you spell it, please. 16 THE WITNESS: Richard Lucas. L-U-C-A- 17 S. 544 East Ogden, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202. 18 MR. HALBROOKS: Mr. Lucas, where do you 19 work? 20 THE WITNESS: Citywide Public Safety. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And what is your 22 position with that company? 23 THE WITNESS: Owner, part owner. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Owner? 25 THE WITNESS: Part owner. 00097 1 MR. HALBROOKS: And how long have you 2 been there? 3 THE WITNESS: 22 years. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you - - How many 5 employees do you have? 6 THE WITNESS: 32. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: Now, what would you say 8 your profession is? 9 THE WITNESS: Security. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: And when you say 11 "security," do you - - are you security like the 12 individuals that work inside the tavern? 13 THE WITNESS: We do different type 14 things. What I do is different than some of the 15 guards that work for the company. I troubleshoot 16 hotspots where there's problems. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Can - - And - - And 18 you're - - you're troubleshooting the hotspots in 19 - - are areas all over the City of Milwaukee. 20 Correct? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: And you have been 23 involved in - - Previously you and I have worked 24 together a number of times on nuisance actions. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. 00098 1 MR. HALBROOKS: And so when you get 2 called into a situation, as you've been listening 3 to today, what is it that you are asked to eval 4 - - what do you look at and can you tell the 5 committee what your role is? 6 THE WITNESS: I go and evaluate the 7 situation and see what they can do to make things 8 better, and advise the people on what they should 9 do. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: And did you - - You 11 were at Sugar this last weekend? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 MR. HALBROOKS: And did it - - Other 14 than the owners, did anybody else know you were 15 there? 16 THE WITNESS: No. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: All right. And what 18 - - What did you do in the course of the night 19 and what did you come away with on Friday and 20 Saturday night? 21 THE WITNESS: Well, I drove around and 22 monitored the neighborhood, the surrounding 23 neighborhood, talked to people. There's a lot of 24 issues down the street at Rain, at the Citgo 25 station. The people that were leaving the club 00099 1 were pretty well respectful. You tell them to 2 keep on moving, they would do so. As far as for 3 the littering and loitering that's going on, 4 Rain's people are standing outside because 5 they're full to capacity, and the people go back 6 to their cars to get a quick drink, and then they 7 throw the cups and the bottles and stuff into the 8 yards. 9 MR. HALBROOKS: What - - And what - - 10 what did you observe with regard to Sugar with 11 regard to trash or people coming and going? 12 THE WITNESS: They had secur - - They 13 had more security guards out there that were 14 walking around, picking up litter, and litter in 15 the surrounding area. Walking, making sure that 16 people got to their car safely. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Were you here when the 18 police officer, the Captain and the police 19 officer were testifying? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: Did your observations 22 bear out the kind of concerns they were 23 expressing with regard to Sugar? 24 THE WITNESS: This past weekend, no. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: When you were - - You 00100 1 also worked on Saturday night? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: And on Saturday night, 4 did you observe that there were some individuals 5 that were asked to leave the club? 6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 7 MR. HALBROOKS: And they - - they were 8 asked to leave due to clothing, dress code? 9 THE WITNESS: Dress code. 10 MR. HALBROOKS: Dress code. What 11 happened when those individuals left? 12 THE WITNESS: They got to the corner, 13 and they wanted to stand around, and I told them 14 to move. They had to move along. They said they 15 were waiting for their ride. I said, you 16 couldn't stand there. So they went a couple 17 blocks away. They stood on that corner, and I 18 went and advised them, and they said they were 19 just waiting for a - - their ride to get there, 20 which will be therein less than ten minutes. 21 MR. HALBROOKS: And then what happened? 22 THE WITNESS: They drove past the club 23 and thanked me on the way out. 24 MR. HALBROOKS: Have - - And based on 25 these observations, is this the kind of role that 00101 1 you perform in the community when you go in and 2 to take care of a problem? 3 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 4 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And how does 5 that differ to the service that the employee 6 security guards provide? 7 THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase that? 8 MR. HALBROOKS: How do you - - The 9 security guards that work for Sugar, how do you 10 see your role as different than them? 11 THE WITNESS: Well, they're employed by 12 - - I answer to myself. They have to answer to 13 the owners. 14 MR. HALBROOKS: And do you - - Do you 15 perceive the security guards taking on the same 16 kind of risks or dealing with the situations that 17 you're retained to do? 18 THE WITNESS: No. 19 MR. HALBROOKS: And - - And you have 20 now been retained by Sugar? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 MR. HALBROOKS: And you intend to be 23 there until you can adequately train somebody? 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 25 MR. HALBROOKS: And so you view it - - 00102 1 So you heard about these rules that we have, 2 which means once you leave, be courteous to the 3 neighborhood and disperse quickly. Otherwise, 4 you're not coming back. 5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I would just add 6 that they have a DJ there. He should just 7 periodically during the night state that to the 8 customers, so that they know. In between songs 9 like, you know, so that they have it in their 10 heads. So when they hit the door, they'll know 11 it's time to go. 12 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you - - You - - Were 13 you here when you heard the Captain indicate that 14 you wouldn't' be able to remember who was banned 15 for this congregating behavior? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 MR. HALBROOKS: Do you believe you'd be 18 able to? You would be able to remember? 19 THE WITNESS: I do a lot of the - - 20 It's bar letters that we do for Section 48, 21 Section 42, Section 8 Housing in the central 22 city. And we give the person that's - - if 23 they're arrested for drugs, guns, gang activity, 24 whatever, they're barred from the property. They 25 get one letter. We give it to them, and we keep 00103 1 a letter on file. You always remember who these 2 people are. 3 MR. HALBROOKS: Thank you. 4 MR. MAISTELMAN: I just need 25 minutes 5 to make my closing remarks. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Just a wrap-up. 7 MR. MAISTELMAN: Very briefly. There's 8 this - - Really, I don't think any evidence. 9 There's been no neighbors that have testified. 10 The only evidence that's been presented is what I 11 think the Alderman and what we saw our first-hand 12 Friday nights. So when you take into 13 consideration, I mean, you need to parse out some 14 of the rumors and innuendos that have been 15 floating around here, but from what has actually 16 been first person testified in front of you. I 17 think that the record is lacking to - - to issue 18 anything other than a warning letter at this 19 point. And you know what we're trying to do, and 20 you know that we're doing it. And they're taking 21 the steps to do it. With that, I thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Are there any other 23 questions by committee? I'll say it 24 rhetorically, because I don't want to deny you, 25 but I don't want to - - push on. I will take 00104 1 that, then, as a no, because I do not here an 2 acknowledgement. And we are in committee with no 3 further questions to be asked. Is there a 4 motion? 5 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Mr. Chair. 6 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Alderman Hamilton. 7 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: The record is 8 lacking. But I think that the testimony of the 9 - - of the Captain and of the Alderman warrants 10 some punishment. And I think that - - I think 11 we've all had situations where applicants come 12 before us and then they present one thing, and 13 then they actually do another thing, and it makes 14 it kind of difficult to deal with that club, 15 because you're - - you're dealing with something 16 that you didn't anticipate dealing with. 17 I know not - - not - - not many people, 18 not many of us who are representing any area 19 would support a teen club, even though they do 20 need somewhere to go. They do need things to do. 21 You would find very few neighborhoods that would 22 say, you know, come have it over here. But it is 23 there and it is needed. And I would hope that 24 the actions that have been taken since Thursday 25 is something that will become part of their 00105 1 operating plan, and that they will continue to be 2 proactive and - - and being in front of these 3 problems, and communicating with the Captain. 4 And trying to make sure that what's been 5 implemented is the way that they operate, and not 6 something that they do in order just to keep the 7 doors open. And so I would make a motion for a 8 ten day suspension, based on the police report. 9 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Thank you, Alderman. 10 The motion by Alderman Hamilton is for approval 11 of the renewal of the license with the issuance 12 of a ten day suspension, based on matters 13 contained in the police report. Is there any 14 discussion on that motion? On the motion, 15 Alderwoman Coggs? 16 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Just because we're 17 into progressive penalty, I'm sorry, I'm not 18 clicking fast enough. Have they - - They 19 have - - 20 CHAIRMAN BOHL: I don't believe that 21 they've been penalized before. 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: Before. So this 23 would be the - - 24 CHAIRMAN BOHL: And I believe that this 25 is maybe their second go around here in terms of 00106 1 their second renewal. 2 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair. So that 3 means they've never been issued a warning letter. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Correct. I believe 5 that that would be the case. 6 ALDERMAN KOVAC: Mr. Chair, on the 7 motion. 8 CHAIRMAN BOHL: On the motion. 9 ALDERMAN KOVAC: It's - - It's my 10 concern. I think there's some very legitimate 11 concerns that have been raised here, but I'm not 12 sure how much of them are within our - - our 13 purview. I'm very sympathetic to the concerns of 14 the Alderman, the concerns of the Police Captain. 15 When you look at this record, there's just not a 16 lot there. And if this was any other kind of use 17 and they had made this kind of outreach to the 18 community, and yeah, they've made promises that 19 they might not keep. But if any other club that 20 wasn't a teen club, this wouldn't even be an 21 issue. We'd be approving with a warning letter 22 and not even thinking about it. It's because 23 it's a teen club. There's only three in the 24 city, and as Alderman Hamilton indicated, we all 25 want them somewhere, but we don't want them in 00107 1 our neighborhood maybe. But I'm not sure that 2 that's the kind of policy we should be making 3 here. I think we should, based on the facts, we 4 may come back, I mean, if things - - If there is 5 a record next time around, then I would say, 6 let's deal with that record. But for now, I 7 don't see much of a record here. So I - - I 8 would want to approve with a warning letter. So 9 that would be my - - my position. 10 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Okay. Again, the 11 motion is for approval of the renewal of the 12 license with the issuance of a ten day 13 suspension, based on matters contained in the 14 police report. Unless there is other discussion 15 on that motion, Madame Clerk, could you call the 16 role on that? 17 MADAME CLERK: Alderman Hamilton? 18 ALDERMAN HAMILTON: Aye. 19 MADAME CLERK: Alderman Kovac? 20 ALDERMAN KOVAC: No. 21 MADAME CLERK: Alderwoman Coggs? 22 ALDERWOMAN COGGS: No. 23 MADAME CLERK: Alderman Zielinski? 24 ALDERMAN ZIELINSKI: Aye. 25 MADAME CLERK: Mr. Chair? 00108 1 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Aye. 2 MADAME CLERK: Motion is approved, 3 three to two. 4 CHAIRMAN BOHL: Mr. Schrimpf. 5 MR. SCHRIMPF: The committee is going 6 to be doing findings of fact and conclusions of 7 law, recommending renewal of this license with a 8 ten day suspension. You will receive a copy of 9 that. Which of the two of you will accept 10 service? Mr. Maistelman? 11 MR. MAISTELMAN: No. Mr. Halbrooks. 12 If he lost, so he lost, so he gets the service. 13 MR. SCHRIMPF: You will have an 14 opportunity to submit written objections to the 15 findings of fact and conclusions of law of the 16 committee. You'll have an opportunity to submit 17 those written objections. If you do so, they 18 just be received by the close of business, which 19 is 4:45 p.m. June 10th, 2008 in the City Clerk's 20 office of this building, the 2nd floor. If you 21 submit written objections, then you also have the 22 opportunity to appear before the Common Council 23 when it meets and considers this matter on June 24 10th. Oh, you got to submit the written 25 objections by June 5th at the close of the day. 00109 1 And June 10th is the Common Council meeting at 2 approximately nine a.m. in the Common Council 3 chambers of this building. Okay. 4 * * * * * 5 00110 1 2 3 STATE OF WISCONSIN ) 4 ) 5 MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) 6 7 I, JEAN M. BARINA, of Milwaukee Reporters 8 Associated, Inc., 5124 West Blue Mound Road, 9 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208, certify that the foregoing 10 proceedings is a full and complete transcript of "20 11 Below, LLC" taken before the Licenses Committee on May 12 28, 2008. 13 14 15 16 17 18 JEAN M. BARINA 19 Court Reporter 20 21 22 Dated this day of May, 2010. 23 24 CITY OF MILWAUKEE 25